[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? - understanding others

Sat Apr 30 00:05:10 UTC 2011

Amen.
Agree there,
just a different view on what "being with God" is.

On Apr 29, 2011, at 2:22 PM, Jeanette wrote:

> the bible tells us that god revelas himself to us all, i believe in the soverignty of god, only He knows whether He has revealed himself to folks, i do not belive that the bible supports the teaching that we have a choice after death, don't see it anywhere, i know there are folks who believe it but after a lengthy discussion in two different bible studies just this last week with over 20 folks discussing and looking up scriptures i do not believe there is support for this teaching.  the new testament teaches us we need to be ready for when Jesus returns, so i believe we need to be ready, if there is a way folks can choose to ignore god before death and get a free ticket to heaven afterwards, well then that is God's business, but i have taught my children that our only chance is here on earth, don't think you can live as you please in rebelion against God and then get another chance, and i pretty much believe based on what i have been taught, you are either with God or against god, there is no gray area.  The Bible teaches that in my opinion, i do not spend a lot of time worrying about those who are passed, there is nothing we can do about that, it is my responsibility to share the truth of Jesus with folks now both  those i meet and talk to and those i meet and they see my life.
> i do not belive that good people go to heaven, Jesus says no one is good, none, Just god.  we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of god, we all need Jesus, i assume that being the all knowing god He revealed Himself to those before Christ appeared on earth in a way that gave them the opportunity to choose His ways, i do not belive he just created them and left them hanging in the breeze to go to hell, how he did that, i do not pretend to know, but i find no scripture in the Holy Word of God to teach that there is an opportunity to choose after death. jeanette
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? - understanding others
> 
> 
> Jeanette,
> I'm not saying that at all.  We have our laws and commandments from
> God- we break them at our own risk and peril.  And...like you said,
> sin is choosing a way other than God's way...but if one has never been
> exposed to the bible, never even heard the name Christ, by your logic
> it seems they're automatically doomed for forever just because they
> were never given the option.  Am I misunderstanding?
> 
> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> i'd have to say i agree with you, the idea of a person being a good person
>> hereon earth but not believing in Jesus and then having the opportunity to
>> change their mind  makes no sense to me, because why would they need to
>> here?  if they are so good why not repent and turn to Jesus here? what would
>> be the point of waiting? as to the folks who never heard of Jesus back in
>> the day or who live somewhere that no one has ever gone, we ahve no way of
>> knowing this, we discussed this in ur bible study last week.  it is not our
>> problem to figure this out, we are responsible to spread the Gospel around
>> the world and in our cities and such, we are to share the love of Christ,
>> trying to explain why God would create people who have the free choice to
>> turn to him and choose not to and giving them the excuse to wait because of
>> whatever reason is not Biblical as I understand the bible.  I just see no
>> point to people waiting to choose, i do not see it anywhere in the bible and
>> choosing one verse to justify a stand is not generally how we as Christians
>> do things, taking verses out of context or not comparing them to other ones
>> in the bible is where we get in to trouble and false beliefs are formed.
>> just my opinion, not criticizing anyone. jeanette
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? -
>> understanding others
>> 
>> 
>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>> see in today's churches.
>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>> There's no way around it.
>> The other religions aren't correct.
>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>> Father, but by him.
>> That's what Jesus said.
>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>> until Antioch.
>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>> "then Peter said unto them,
>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>> the Holy Ghost."
>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.)
>> If you're going to call yourself a Christian, you need to start with
>> the way the Apostles did.
>> Just my thoughts.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> 
>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>> 
>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other religions
>>> have different perspectives.
>>> Take this theologians line:
>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the Christians, as
>>> Moses was sent to the jews."
>>> 
>>> What does this tell you?
>>> 
>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>> Christus
>>> (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to speak, and that
>>> their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is passover, in which God
>>> leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the fact that we celebrate our
>>> revelation from God, Easter, on the very week, it shows you that the right
>>> way isn't set in stone.
>>> 
>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one from
>>> Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and for
>>> Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God)
>>> In effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>> and
>>> in different forms.
>>> 
>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>> 
>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks, "Master,
>>> why
>>> do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>> 
>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come…" then says "…but surely
>>> Elisha
>>> has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>> 
>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you know
>>> that
>>> Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His book is written
>>> years before the new testament even begins.
>>> 
>>> But… where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>> 
>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a theological
>>> point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference to the Muslim
>>> prophet Mohammed.
>>> 
>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>> 
>>> My answer is this,
>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions agree
>>> on
>>> this do they not?
>>> 
>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the later
>>> religious figures.
>>> 
>>> Simple answer.
>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>> 
>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>> 
>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in Egypt
>>> at
>>> the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the writings of
>>> the
>>> time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the text. Without diving
>>> into
>>> too much detail,
>>> Moses saved the people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but
>>> set standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of
>>> God.
>>> 
>>> Then came Jesus.
>>> 
>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans, and
>>> the
>>> religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and power hungry.
>>> 
>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and at
>>> the
>>> birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split into 2
>>> groups.
>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>> original
>>> Torah.
>>> 
>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>> 
>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They were
>>> merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business. When he
>>> turned
>>> 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril, known in English as
>>> Gabriel.
>>> 
>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>> 
>>> And now consider my last example.
>>> 
>>> The Buddha.
>>> 
>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced all
>>> wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>> meditation.
>>> 
>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did Moses,
>>> as
>>> did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different language.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a way
>>> of
>>> life.
>>> 
>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever greatness
>>> you
>>> might reach,
>>> then you are, though perhaps unknown to you, obeying the same code that
>>> almost all religious figures have taught threw out the years.
>>> 
>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>> 
>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>> 
>>> That means,
>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had,
>>> but as long as it is something in which you are strong in faith,
>>> that is your true religion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of a
>>> message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as long
>>> as
>>> you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers, no matter what
>>> their name may be.
>>> 
>>> Jorge
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>> 
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