[Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - whatis the right way?-understanding others

[Joshua Lester]

Nikki, I'm glad you've posted this on the list.
Christianity isn't a religion, anyway.
It's a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>     Ok. I can't keep quiet anymore.
> It doesn't matter what "religion," I despise the term, or Bible version.
> The truth is God's interpretation.
> It's not anyone's place to judge except for God's.
> In my opinion, debating God is a sin.
> I did not mean to crush anyone's beliefs or start anything.
> Just speaking my mind like everyone else.
> God bless you all.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jorge Paez
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:26 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection -
> whatis the right way?-understanding others
>
> Thank you Joshua for the reference.
> I indeed have a copy of the King James version.
> I will study it this weekend.
>
> Jorge
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>> Constantine, and the Council of Nicea invented the term, "trinity."
>> It isn't found in scripture.
>> Catholics use a total diferent book.
>> We use the King James Bible.
>> No wonder!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Very interesting point Joshua.
>>> Will certainly study that.
>>> And, 325 AD is actually interesting,
>>> because it was after the First Vatican--in other words,
>>> after the Catholic church stablished the magestirium and declaired its
>>> official traditions.
>>>
>>> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Holy Trinity,
>>> but I respect your point.
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jorge, we are all creations of God, not children of God.
>>>> Jesus said, that when we're in sin, we are Satan's children.
>>>> When we come into Christ, we become God's children.
>>>> Those that do not come into Christ, are not God's children.
>>>> That's Bible.
>>>> How do we come into Christ?
>>>> First of all, who is Jesus.
>>>> Some teach that he's the second person in the Godhead, and some teach
>>>> that he's God, all by himself.
>>>> Well, you need to understand, that there are not 3 persons in the
>>>> Godhead.
>>>> This will ruffle a few feathers on this list, but that's the truth.
>>>> John 4:24 says, that God is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>> They that worship God must worship him, in spirit and in truth.
>>>> The Holy Spirit is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>> Persons have flesh and blood, spirits don't.
>>>> The only one that became flesh was the son.
>>>> How?
>>>> 1 Timothy, 3:16 tells us that God was made manifest in the flesh.
>>>> God, (spirit,) manifested in the flesh, (son.)
>>>> The flesh revealed God's name, (Jesus.)
>>>> Colossians, 1:19 "and it pleased the Father, that in him should all
>>>> fullness dwell."
>>>> Colossians, 2:9. "And in him, (Jesus,) dwelleth all the fullness of
>>>> the Godhead bodily."
>>>> Jesus was the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and now, he's
>>>> the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
>>>> Matthew 28:19 says for us to baptize in the name of the Father, and of
>>>> the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
>>>> Notice the word is "name," (not "names.")
>>>> I've just established that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy
>>>> Ghost, was Jesus.
>>>> That's why we baptize in Jesus's name, (Acts, 2:38.)
>>>> Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus, the
>>>> Lord," never, "Father Son and Holy Ghost."
>>>> That didn't start, until 325 A.D.
>>>> Read Acts, 2:38, Acts, 8:16, Acts, 10, Acts, 19:1/6.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jeanette and everyone,
>>>>> Let me share a couple of sections from the set of fundamental beliefs
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Seventh-day Adventist church, which I am going to be joinging soon.
>>>>> This
>>>>> clearly, using only the bible, explains what happens after we die, and
>>>>> how
>>>>> humanity is judged. I know it's a lot of scripture to look at, but if
>>>>> you
>>>>> all look, you'll see the truth of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 26. Death and Resurrection:
>>>>> The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant
>>>>> eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious
>>>>> state
>>>>> for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected
>>>>> righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to
>>>>> meet
>>>>> their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the
>>>>> unrighteous,
>>>>> will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16;
>>>>> Eccl.
>>>>> 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1
>>>>> Thess.
>>>>> 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
>>>>>
>>>>> 27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
>>>>> The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in
>>>>> heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the
>>>>> wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without
>>>>> living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its
>>>>> close
>>>>> Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to
>>>>> earth.
>>>>> The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his
>>>>> angels
>>>>> will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse
>>>>> the
>>>>> earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.
>>>>> (Rev.
>>>>> 20;
>>>>> 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Jeanette
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>>>> way?-understanding others
>>>>>
>>>>> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's
>>>>> wrath
>>>>> against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a loving
>>>>> god
>>>>> who
>>>>> gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life has
>>>>> consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to
>>>>> choosing
>>>>> a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life you
>>>>> get
>>>>> you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
>>>>> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do
>>>>> with
>>>>> what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God created
>>>>> us
>>>>> all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>>>> way?
>>>>> -understanding others
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua:
>>>>> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are
>>>>> therefore not children of God?
>>>>> Is this not hypocritical?
>>>>> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like to
>>>>> portray?
>>>>> For love is for all,
>>>>> love for some is not true love.
>>>>> Is that right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>>>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>>>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>>>>> until Antioch.
>>>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>>>>>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles did.
>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the
>>>>>>> fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the very
>>>>>>> week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one
>>>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but surely
>>>>>>> Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the
>>>>>>> writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the
>>>>>>> text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the people of
>>>>>>> Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set standards for
>>>>>>> them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and
>>>>>>> at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split
>>>>>>> into 2 groups.
>>>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and
>>>>>>> values.
>>>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>>>>>> meditation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a
>>>>>>> way of life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That means,
>>>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>>>> religion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of
>>>>>>> a message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as
>>>>>>> long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers,
>>>>>>> no matter what their name may be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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