[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?-understanding others

Sat Apr 30 02:33:58 UTC 2011

Nikki, and Jeanette, great posts.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>     God is love.
> Love is God.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeanette
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 8:15 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
> way?-understanding others
>
> well i do not believe that saying that they are not right is breaking the
> second commandment, i can love my neighbor as myself and not agree with
> them, love does not mean that i blindly accept what they believe, i can
> share and they like myself have a choice to make in their lives as i did,
> calling someone wrong does not mean you dont' love them, those of us who
> have  been married know that disagreeing with our spouse does not mean we do
> not love them, disagreeing with our children does not mean we dont' love
> them, we have a responsibility to share the truth of the gospel, if we do
> not then we are not loving our neighbor as we love urself, if we do not have
> a yearning to tell them the truth are we not loving them?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
> way? -understanding others
>
>
> Joshua and Jeanette:
> I understand your thoughts.
> It is true that we have been told to spread the bible,
> and while we may not understand it,
> saying that the Jews, or Muslims are not right is breaking the second
> commandment is it not?
>
> We are to love our neighbor like we love ourselves.
> I'm not saying don't show them the Gospel if you have a chance.
>
> I'm simply saying that it is not our matter to judge those who have never
> heard of Christ nearly because of faults out of their control.
>
> God has his ways,
> and soon enough every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to the
> glory of God almighty,
> and each shall proclaim it in the way that it was revealed onto them,
> ways that only the Almighty knows,
> for he knows us better then anyone.
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:08 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>
>> i'd have to say i agree with you, the idea of a person being a good person
>>
>> hereon earth but not believing in Jesus and then having the opportunity to
>>
>> change their mind  makes no sense to me, because why would they need to
>> here?  if they are so good why not repent and turn to Jesus here? what
>> would be the point of waiting? as to the folks who never heard of Jesus
>> back in the day or who live somewhere that no one has ever gone, we ahve
>> no way of knowing this, we discussed this in ur bible study last week.  it
>>
>> is not our problem to figure this out, we are responsible to spread the
>> Gospel around the world and in our cities and such, we are to share the
>> love of Christ, trying to explain why God would create people who have the
>>
>> free choice to turn to him and choose not to and giving them the excuse to
>>
>> wait because of whatever reason is not Biblical as I understand the bible.
>>
>> I just see no point to people waiting to choose, i do not see it anywhere
>> in the bible and choosing one verse to justify a stand is not generally
>> how we as Christians do things, taking verses out of context or not
>> comparing them to other ones in the bible is where we get in to trouble
>> and false beliefs are formed. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone.
>> jeanette
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester"
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>> way? - understanding others
>>
>>
>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>> see in today's churches.
>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>> There's no way around it.
>> The other religions aren't correct.
>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>> Father, but by him.
>> That's what Jesus said.
>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>> until Antioch.
>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>> "then Peter said unto them,
>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>> the Holy Ghost."
>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.)
>> If you're going to call yourself a Christian, you need to start with
>> the way the Apostles did.
>> Just my thoughts.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>
>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other religions
>>> have different perspectives.
>>> Take this theologians line:
>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the Christians,
>>> as
>>> Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>
>>> What does this tell you?
>>>
>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>> Christus
>>> (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to speak, and that
>>> their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is passover, in which
>>> God
>>> leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the fact that we celebrate our
>>> revelation from God, Easter, on the very week, it shows you that the
>>> right
>>> way isn't set in stone.
>>>
>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one from
>>> Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and for
>>> Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God)
>>> In effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>> and
>>> in different forms.
>>>
>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>
>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks, "Master,
>>> why
>>> do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>
>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come…" then says "…but surely
>>> Elisha
>>> has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>>
>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you know
>>> that
>>> Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His book is written
>>> years before the new testament even begins.
>>>
>>> But… where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>
>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a theological
>>> point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference to the Muslim
>>> prophet Mohammed.
>>>
>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>
>>> My answer is this,
>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions agree
>>> on
>>> this do they not?
>>>
>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>> later
>>> religious figures.
>>>
>>> Simple answer.
>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>
>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>
>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in Egypt
>>>
>>> at
>>> the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the writings of
>>> the
>>> time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the text. Without diving
>>> into
>>> too much detail,
>>> Moses saved the people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but
>>> set standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will
>>> of
>>> God.
>>>
>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>
>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans, and
>>> the
>>> religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and power hungry.
>>>
>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and at
>>> the
>>> birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split into 2
>>> groups.
>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>> original
>>> Torah.
>>>
>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>
>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They were
>>> merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business. When he
>>> turned
>>> 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril, known in English as
>>> Gabriel.
>>>
>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>
>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>
>>> The Buddha.
>>>
>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced all
>>> wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>> meditation.
>>>
>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did Moses,
>>> as
>>> did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different language.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a way
>>> of
>>> life.
>>>
>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever greatness
>>> you
>>> might reach,
>>> then you are, though perhaps unknown to you, obeying the same code that
>>> almost all religious figures have taught threw out the years.
>>>
>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>
>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>
>>> That means,
>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had,
>>> but as long as it is something in which you are strong in faith,
>>> that is your true religion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of a
>>> message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as long
>>> as
>>> you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers, no matter
>>> what
>>> their name may be.
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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