[Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - whatis the right way?-understanding others

Sat Apr 30 03:02:12 UTC 2011

amen, it is all about the relationship
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - 
whatis the right way?-understanding others


> Nikki, I'm glad you've posted this on the list.
> Christianity isn't a religion, anyway.
> It's a relationship with Jesus Christ.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/29/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>     Ok. I can't keep quiet anymore.
>> It doesn't matter what "religion," I despise the term, or Bible version.
>> The truth is God's interpretation.
>> It's not anyone's place to judge except for God's.
>> In my opinion, debating God is a sin.
>> I did not mean to crush anyone's beliefs or start anything.
>> Just speaking my mind like everyone else.
>> God bless you all.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:26 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection -
>> whatis the right way?-understanding others
>>
>> Thank you Joshua for the reference.
>> I indeed have a copy of the King James version.
>> I will study it this weekend.
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>
>>> Constantine, and the Council of Nicea invented the term, "trinity."
>>> It isn't found in scripture.
>>> Catholics use a total diferent book.
>>> We use the King James Bible.
>>> No wonder!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Very interesting point Joshua.
>>>> Will certainly study that.
>>>> And, 325 AD is actually interesting,
>>>> because it was after the First Vatican--in other words,
>>>> after the Catholic church stablished the magestirium and declaired its
>>>> official traditions.
>>>>
>>>> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Holy Trinity,
>>>> but I respect your point.
>>>> Jorge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jorge, we are all creations of God, not children of God.
>>>>> Jesus said, that when we're in sin, we are Satan's children.
>>>>> When we come into Christ, we become God's children.
>>>>> Those that do not come into Christ, are not God's children.
>>>>> That's Bible.
>>>>> How do we come into Christ?
>>>>> First of all, who is Jesus.
>>>>> Some teach that he's the second person in the Godhead, and some teach
>>>>> that he's God, all by himself.
>>>>> Well, you need to understand, that there are not 3 persons in the
>>>>> Godhead.
>>>>> This will ruffle a few feathers on this list, but that's the truth.
>>>>> John 4:24 says, that God is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>>> They that worship God must worship him, in spirit and in truth.
>>>>> The Holy Spirit is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>>> Persons have flesh and blood, spirits don't.
>>>>> The only one that became flesh was the son.
>>>>> How?
>>>>> 1 Timothy, 3:16 tells us that God was made manifest in the flesh.
>>>>> God, (spirit,) manifested in the flesh, (son.)
>>>>> The flesh revealed God's name, (Jesus.)
>>>>> Colossians, 1:19 "and it pleased the Father, that in him should all
>>>>> fullness dwell."
>>>>> Colossians, 2:9. "And in him, (Jesus,) dwelleth all the fullness of
>>>>> the Godhead bodily."
>>>>> Jesus was the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and now, he's
>>>>> the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
>>>>> Matthew 28:19 says for us to baptize in the name of the Father, and of
>>>>> the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
>>>>> Notice the word is "name," (not "names.")
>>>>> I've just established that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy
>>>>> Ghost, was Jesus.
>>>>> That's why we baptize in Jesus's name, (Acts, 2:38.)
>>>>> Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus, the
>>>>> Lord," never, "Father Son and Holy Ghost."
>>>>> That didn't start, until 325 A.D.
>>>>> Read Acts, 2:38, Acts, 8:16, Acts, 10, Acts, 19:1/6.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Jeanette and everyone,
>>>>>> Let me share a couple of sections from the set of fundamental beliefs
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Seventh-day Adventist church, which I am going to be joinging soon.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> clearly, using only the bible, explains what happens after we die, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> humanity is judged. I know it's a lot of scripture to look at, but if
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> all look, you'll see the truth of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 26. Death and Resurrection:
>>>>>> The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant
>>>>>> eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious
>>>>>> state
>>>>>> for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the 
>>>>>> resurrected
>>>>>> righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to
>>>>>> meet
>>>>>> their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the
>>>>>> unrighteous,
>>>>>> will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16;
>>>>>> Eccl.
>>>>>> 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1
>>>>>> Thess.
>>>>>> 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
>>>>>> The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, 
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At 
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> close
>>>>>> Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to
>>>>>> earth.
>>>>>> The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his
>>>>>> angels
>>>>>> will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and 
>>>>>> cleanse
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.
>>>>>> (Rev.
>>>>>> 20;
>>>>>> 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jeanette
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>>>>> way?-understanding others
>>>>>>
>>>>>> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's
>>>>>> wrath
>>>>>> against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a loving
>>>>>> god
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life 
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to
>>>>>> choosing
>>>>>> a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
>>>>>> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God 
>>>>>> created
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>>>>> way?
>>>>>> -understanding others
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua:
>>>>>> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are
>>>>>> therefore not children of God?
>>>>>> Is this not hypocritical?
>>>>>> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like to
>>>>>> portray?
>>>>>> For love is for all,
>>>>>> love for some is not true love.
>>>>>> Is that right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>>>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every 
>>>>>>> knee
>>>>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is 
>>>>>>> Lord.
>>>>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>>>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>>>>>> until Antioch.
>>>>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>>>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>>>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles 
>>>>>>> did.
>>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the very
>>>>>>>> week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, 
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>>>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>>>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different 
>>>>>>>> eras
>>>>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the 
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but 
>>>>>>>> surely
>>>>>>>> Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they 
>>>>>>>> will."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will 
>>>>>>>> come?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the
>>>>>>>> text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the people 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set standards for
>>>>>>>> them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus 
>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>> into 2 groups.
>>>>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and
>>>>>>>> values.
>>>>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path 
>>>>>>>> threw
>>>>>>>> meditation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> way of life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different 
>>>>>>>> religions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That means,
>>>>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>>>>> religion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then 
>>>>>>>> oneself.
>>>>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> a message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, 
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers,
>>>>>>>> no matter what their name may be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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