[Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - what is the right way?-understanding others

[Joshua Lester]

I read that, in another post, on another thread.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> no i believe in the trenity
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - what
> is the right way?-understanding others
>
>
>> Jeanette, Your church preaches the Apostolic doctrine?
>> You're oneness?
>> You don't believe in the trinity?
>> Wow!
>> That's 3 of us on this list.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> amen and the othe thing is Jesus was fully God and fully man.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection -
>>> what
>>> is the right way?-understanding others
>>>
>>>
>>>> Every time it says, "Son," think flesh, and when it says "Father," think
>>>> spirit.
>>>> As man Jesus prayed, as God, he answered prayer.
>>>> As man he was hungry, but as God, he fed the 5000.
>>>> As man, he died on the cross, but as God, he rose from the dead,
>>>> victorious over death, hell and the grave.
>>>> The thing that makes Christianity greater than the other religions is,
>>>> the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, while every other leader is
>>>> still dead, and buried.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you Joshua for the reference.
>>>>> I indeed have a copy of the King James version.
>>>>> I will study it this weekend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Constantine, and the Council of Nicea invented the term, "trinity."
>>>>>> It isn't found in scripture.
>>>>>> Catholics use a total diferent book.
>>>>>> We use the King James Bible.
>>>>>> No wonder!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Very interesting point Joshua.
>>>>>>> Will certainly study that.
>>>>>>> And, 325 AD is actually interesting,
>>>>>>> because it was after the First Vatican--in other words,
>>>>>>> after the Catholic church stablished the magestirium and declaired
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> official traditions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Holy Trinity,
>>>>>>> but I respect your point.
>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jorge, we are all creations of God, not children of God.
>>>>>>>> Jesus said, that when we're in sin, we are Satan's children.
>>>>>>>> When we come into Christ, we become God's children.
>>>>>>>> Those that do not come into Christ, are not God's children.
>>>>>>>> That's Bible.
>>>>>>>> How do we come into Christ?
>>>>>>>> First of all, who is Jesus.
>>>>>>>> Some teach that he's the second person in the Godhead, and some
>>>>>>>> teach
>>>>>>>> that he's God, all by himself.
>>>>>>>> Well, you need to understand, that there are not 3 persons in the
>>>>>>>> Godhead.
>>>>>>>> This will ruffle a few feathers on this list, but that's the truth.
>>>>>>>> John 4:24 says, that God is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>>>>>> They that worship God must worship him, in spirit and in truth.
>>>>>>>> The Holy Spirit is a spirit, (not a person.)
>>>>>>>> Persons have flesh and blood, spirits don't.
>>>>>>>> The only one that became flesh was the son.
>>>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>>> 1 Timothy, 3:16 tells us that God was made manifest in the flesh.
>>>>>>>> God, (spirit,) manifested in the flesh, (son.)
>>>>>>>> The flesh revealed God's name, (Jesus.)
>>>>>>>> Colossians, 1:19 "and it pleased the Father, that in him should all
>>>>>>>> fullness dwell."
>>>>>>>> Colossians, 2:9. "And in him, (Jesus,) dwelleth all the fullness of
>>>>>>>> the Godhead bodily."
>>>>>>>> Jesus was the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and now,
>>>>>>>> he's
>>>>>>>> the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
>>>>>>>> Matthew 28:19 says for us to baptize in the name of the Father, and
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
>>>>>>>> Notice the word is "name," (not "names.")
>>>>>>>> I've just established that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy
>>>>>>>> Ghost, was Jesus.
>>>>>>>> That's why we baptize in Jesus's name, (Acts, 2:38.)
>>>>>>>> Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Lord," never, "Father Son and Holy Ghost."
>>>>>>>> That didn't start, until 325 A.D.
>>>>>>>> Read Acts, 2:38, Acts, 8:16, Acts, 10, Acts, 19:1/6.
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/29/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jeanette and everyone,
>>>>>>>>> Let me share a couple of sections from the set of fundamental
>>>>>>>>> beliefs
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Seventh-day Adventist church, which I am going to be joinging soon.
>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>> clearly, using only the bible, explains what happens after we die,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>> humanity is judged. I know it's a lot of scripture to look at, but
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> all look, you'll see the truth of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 26. Death and Resurrection:
>>>>>>>>> The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will
>>>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>>>> eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an
>>>>>>>>> unconscious
>>>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>>>> for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the
>>>>>>>>> resurrected
>>>>>>>>> righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the
>>>>>>>>> unrighteous,
>>>>>>>>> will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15,
>>>>>>>>> 16;
>>>>>>>>> Eccl.
>>>>>>>>> 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1
>>>>>>>>> Thess.
>>>>>>>>> 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
>>>>>>>>> The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate,
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>> Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> earth.
>>>>>>>>> The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> angels
>>>>>>>>> will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and
>>>>>>>>> cleanse
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.
>>>>>>>>> (Rev.
>>>>>>>>> 20;
>>>>>>>>> 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18,
>>>>>>>>> 19.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jeanette
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the
>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>> way?-understanding others
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's
>>>>>>>>> wrath
>>>>>>>>> against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a
>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>> god
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to
>>>>>>>>> choosing
>>>>>>>>> a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
>>>>>>>>> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God
>>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the
>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>> way?
>>>>>>>>> -understanding others
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joshua:
>>>>>>>>> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> therefore not children of God?
>>>>>>>>> Is this not hypocritical?
>>>>>>>>> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> portray?
>>>>>>>>> For love is for all,
>>>>>>>>> love for some is not true love.
>>>>>>>>> Is that right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff,
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>>>>>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every
>>>>>>>>>> knee
>>>>>>>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is
>>>>>>>>>> Lord.
>>>>>>>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>>>>>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>>>>>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>>>>>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any
>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>> until Antioch.
>>>>>>>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at
>>>>>>>>>> Antioch.
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>>>>>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>>>>>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>>>>>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>>>>>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>>>>>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>>>>>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>>>>>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>>>>>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles
>>>>>>>>>> did.
>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>>>>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>>>>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>>>>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations,
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God
>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God)
>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different
>>>>>>>>>>> eras
>>>>>>>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but
>>>>>>>>>>> surely
>>>>>>>>>>> Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they
>>>>>>>>>>> will."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament,
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come.
>>>>>>>>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will
>>>>>>>>>>> come?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>>>>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a
>>>>>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>>>>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all
>>>>>>>>>>> religions
>>>>>>>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>>>>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the people
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set standards for
>>>>>>>>>>> them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the
>>>>>>>>>>> Romans,
>>>>>>>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>>>>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>>>>> into 2 groups.
>>>>>>>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>>>>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest
>>>>>>>>>>> business.
>>>>>>>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel
>>>>>>>>>>> Jabril,
>>>>>>>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and
>>>>>>>>>>> values.
>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given
>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India,
>>>>>>>>>>> renounced
>>>>>>>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path
>>>>>>>>>>> threw
>>>>>>>>>>> meditation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>>>>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> way of life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>>>>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>>>>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different
>>>>>>>>>>> religions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>>>>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>>>>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That means,
>>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>>>>>>>> religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then
>>>>>>>>>>> oneself.
>>>>>>>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the
>>>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> a message that is already there--but I believe you should
>>>>>>>>>>> convert,
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his
>>>>>>>>>>> messengers,
>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what their name may be.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> chjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
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