[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Joshua Lester
jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Sat Apr 30 03:37:37 UTC 2011
Kirt, we all have our weaknesses, but that's what the Holy Ghost is for.
Blessings, Joshua
On 4/29/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh- and sorry about my language. I guess it's repenting time for me. :)
> But case in point: if I just said "jesus will save me because I've
> accepted him- no need to try and work on my language because I'm
> saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaved! Praise the lord!," I don't think it'd do
> me any good. I have to do my best to not swear, knowing I'm going to
> mess up but I have to do my part so Christ's grace can be sufficient
> for me.
> And I know swearing's a little issue compared to lots of others- but
> I hope it illustrates my point.
> God bless,
> Kirt
>
> On 4/29/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> To all,
>> One more thing and I promise I'll be done with this thread, for
>> good. It was said earlier that ethics don't get us in to heaven, and
>> I agree that noone would stand a chance without the grace of Christ
>> because we are all sinners. But our own ethics do matter, they are
>> integral to accepting Christ- it's not enough to merely say he's our
>> savior, we've been saved, and be done with it. Consider the
>> following. (and I'm just paraphrasing here, I don't know the Bible as
>> well as I ought to but I'm getting there slowly) Anyways- theswe are
>> just a few of the teachings of Christ from the Bible.
>> "judge not, that ye be not judged."
>> "forgive seventy times seven."
>> "do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
>> All of the ten commandments.
>> "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
>> "love thy neighbor as thyself."
>> "if ye love me, keep my commandments."
>> "inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye
>> have done it unto me."
>> "when thou doest thine alms, do them in secret."
>> "What manner of men ought ye to be? Even as I am."
>> "love thine enemies, bless those that curse you, pray for those who
>> despitefully use you."
>> "go the extra mile." (this was in the context of being required, by
>> law, to carry the pack of a Roman centurian for 1 mile if you were
>> requested to do so--I'm probably off on the exact wording but you get
>> the point)
>> "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."
>> "turn the other cheak."
>> "feed my lambs/feed my sheep." (said to Peter but definitely aplicable
>> here)
>> the parable of the Good Samaritan.
>> The commandment to the rich man to sell all his possessions to the
>> poor and follow him.
>> I could go on for a long, long time. (well, actually, I
>> couldn;'t...but I know there are many more examples) But what do all
>> these quotes or familiar stories all have in common? They are all
>> commandments by Christ to behave a certain way, to do certain things,
>> to obey certain laws...in other words, Ethics! If all we had to do
>> was simply accept Christ in to our heart, be happy we were saved and
>> move on...why the hell would Christ spend so much time laying out such
>> a rigorous moral code for us to follow? If ethics don't play a part
>> in getting us to heaven, why did Christ spend so much time talking
>> about them? To me, we have to live the best life we know how to...and
>> of course we'll fall miserably short, but we have to try because
>> that's what allows Christ to come in and purify our hearts. We have
>> to live, to the best of our abilities, the ethics Christ gave us. I
>> know you all don't accept the Book of Mormon as scripture, but there
>> is a verse there that states, basically, "grace is sufficient for you,
>> after ye have done all that ye can do." (that's paraphrasing but it's
>> the message of the scripture) So...it's not enough to passively sit
>> by and let Christ save us- we have to, to the best of our ability,
>> make ourselves worthy to be saved. Of course we can't on our own-
>> Christ does all the saving, and no matter how good we are it wouldn't
>> be enough to get in to heaven without Christ's atonement. But we
>> still have to try and be good in order for Christ's sacrifice to have
>> any power in our lives. Otherwise, why would Christ devote so much of
>> his precious scriptures to teaching ethics?
>> God bless,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Jews and Muslems have been at war with each other, since the beginning.
>>> The Jews' God was Yahweh, and the Muslems worship Ala.
>>> Yahweh is the God of Isaac, (the Jews claim Isaac to be the father of
>>> the Jewish race.)
>>> Ishmael, (Isaac's half-brother,) is considered the father of the
>>> Arabic race, (Muslems.)
>>> They worship two separate gods.
>>> Yahweh, (to us,) is Jesus, because Jesus calls himself Yahweh, in
>>> John, 5, where he said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
>>> Yahweh semply means, I am.
>>> Ala is a named derived from the name of the moon god, worshiped by
>>> people in Muhammad's day.
>>> We, (Christians and Muslems,) do not both worship the same god.
>>> Christianity came out of Judaism, but Islam is its own separate religion.
>>> It's no secret, that Muslems hate Jews.
>>> In Arab countries, they teach the children to chant, "Arabs are
>>> beloved, Jews are dogs."
>>> They've fought, and fought.
>>> They will continue to fight, until Jesus comes again.
>>> I'm on the side of Israel, and I always will be.
>>> I know, that some Muslems are peaceful, but I'm refering to the
>>> popular Islam, that's talked about on the news.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Well I'm not muslim so I won't defend them,
>>>> but from what I understand he's the same name for our God.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 9:16 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> the old testament tells us ther is only one true God, as i understand
>>>>> it
>>>>> ala is not the one true god, he is a different god, sorry but that is
>>>>> what
>>>>> i understand.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>; "Faith-talk,for the discussion of
>>>>> faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting.
>>>>> Despite my firm belief in Jesus Christ, and the Catholic faith, I have
>>>>> also talked to Muslim friends of mine and we agree on many things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly enough, Islam itself is a word that means, submission to
>>>>> Allah (God), so it makes sense that Jesus was considered a good Muslim
>>>>> however, according to what I've read,
>>>>> there is no mention of Jesus after his birth in the Quran.
>>>>> Please let me know if you can tell me the versus in which his life and
>>>>> passion are referenced.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a firm believer in Christianity but like to research other
>>>>> religions
>>>>> as I believe this simply makes my understanding overall of other
>>>>> people's
>>>>> religions and customs much better and thereby strengthens me as a
>>>>> believer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 11:32 PM, qubit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings again --
>>>>>> This list has been active lately...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not muslim, as defined by any of the branches of Islam, but I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> brother who has read considerably the muslim writings including
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> translations of the Quran, and I also have read a little in the Quran
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> curiosity.
>>>>>> I have read only through Surah 2, but it is true there are many good
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> peaceful teachings in this part of the Quran. However, like the
>>>>>> Bible,
>>>>>> there are also harsh parts of the Quran that lead many to justify
>>>>>> violent
>>>>>> behavior such as is in the news. This however, is also true of the
>>>>>> Bible
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> there are parts of the Bible that can be twisted to justify a lot of
>>>>>> unchristian behaviors. (I'm not equating the Bible and the Quran --
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are very different.)
>>>>>> Your statement that muslims don't believe Jesus is Christ actually is
>>>>>> false.
>>>>>> According to my brother, the Quran calls Jesus the Messiah, and in
>>>>>> fact
>>>>>> includes an interesting telling of Mary and the virgin conception of
>>>>>> Jesus,
>>>>>> plus a discussion of his life and crucifixion. I'm afraid i don't
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> it says about the resurrection, but according to my brother, the Quran
>>>>>> refers to Jesus and his disciples as true muslims, because of their
>>>>>> willingness to submit to God (Allah).
>>>>>> My brother even compares the English translations to the original
>>>>>> Arabic,
>>>>>> and has discovers some interesting information -- such as the word
>>>>>> usually
>>>>>> translated as "Christians" in the English translations of the Quran,
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> actually the name of a group of Arabs in Muhammad's time who had a
>>>>>> belief
>>>>>> about Christianity that Muhammad disagreed with. It has nothing to do
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> modern Christians, or even the Christians that fought in the crusades,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> was centuries after Muhammad's time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, my brother also discovered inconsistencies in the various
>>>>>> English
>>>>>> translations of the Quran -- one English version clashed in meaning
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>> He also claims that if you look at the original Arabic, the verses in
>>>>>> question agree with verses of the New Testament that discuss the
>>>>>> mission
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Jesus and related things. However, what he has found is that
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Muslim scholars believe the Bible and Quran clash, and when he tries
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> point out the verses in question, he is met with mixed reactions. The
>>>>>> Christians he talks to find his discovery interesting, while the
>>>>>> muslims
>>>>>> almost always get hot under the collar. He has even been escorted out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> places and asked not to come back...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One verse in the Quran I found a little incredulous was Sura 2:256
>>>>>> "There is no compulsion in religion..."
>>>>>> I guess it surprised me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the rambling.
>>>>>> Funny thing: even with all the negative reaction my brother gets from
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> muslims who listen to him, he was told by one man that he thought my
>>>>>> brother
>>>>>> was a true muslim. My brother took it as a compliment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do want to say one thing more:
>>>>>> i agree that there is some truth in all world religions, but that
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> mean all of their writings are correct or agree.
>>>>>> I don't think you can put 2 religions -- like Christianity and
>>>>>> Buddhism
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> side by side and find they are really the same.
>>>>>> An example -- I once read the book "The Power of Myth", which tried to
>>>>>> tie
>>>>>> all the world's myths and religious beliefs together by looking for
>>>>>> similarities. I also saw the author interviewed on PBS. It sounded
>>>>>> interested, until I got to the part where Buddhism and Christianity
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> discussed. The author actually tried to equate the missions of Buddha
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>>> I knew a lot about Christianity, and not so much about Buddhism, but
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> discussion didn't feel right. I read a little more about Buddha and my
>>>>>> conclusion were that while Jesus and Buddha were compassionate
>>>>>> spiritual
>>>>>> leaders, their missions were quite different. I also didn't feel like
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> was appropriate to call Jesus a myth. The author also
>>>>>> misrepresented
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> took liberties with the story told in scripture, which I felt he
>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>> do. I also felt that if he couldn't get Christianity right, which I
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> a knowledge about, how could I trust what he had to say about the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> religions? I would rather research themby talking to persons who live
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, have a nice evening.
>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:25 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan:
>>>>>> With all due respect,
>>>>>> you have to be aware the bible uses complex langauge structures.
>>>>>> For example: have you ever tried reading Revelations?
>>>>>> You should, but it is a very complicated book to understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What he means by the Father threw me is simple:
>>>>>> if you know him, you know the father.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But… and this is an important point,
>>>>>> it is a greater crime to not believe in God, then it is to not
>>>>>> recognize
>>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, muslims don't recognize Jesus as the Christ and yet their
>>>>>> codes
>>>>>> of ethics stand amongst one of the strictest, and strongest I've seen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are many muslims I know who would put so-called Christians to
>>>>>> shae
>>>>>> with their devotion to God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying they are bound to hell?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not attacking you, just wondering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Alan Wheeler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it is Christ, Himself, who said He is the only way:
>>>>>>> John 14
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>> you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
>>>>>>> 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be with me that you also may be where I am.
>>>>>>> 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
>>>>>>> 5 ¶Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are going, so
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we know the way?”
>>>>>>> 6 ¶Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the Father except through me.
>>>>>>> 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now
>>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> do know him and have seen him.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take note, Jesus didn't say "I am *A* way, *A* truth, and *A* life,"
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> rather said "I am *THE* way, *THE* truth, and *THE* life." Use of the
>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>> "the" in that context denotes singleness or exclusivity. So, Jesus
>>>>>>> was,
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> essence saying he was the only way, the only truth, and the only
>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:11 PM
>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christ is who we Christians say is the only way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think its a bigger crime not to believe in God, E.G., atheists,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> to believe in Christ.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>>>> never heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> like Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go
>>>>>>>>>> to hell simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>>>> fore is not reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> what i believe, if you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> to you explain the need for Him to sacrafice His life for our
>>>>>>>>>>> sins?
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God, only
>>>>>>>>>>>> those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a religion
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> been written by Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember
>>>>>>>>>>>> his name prior to this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>> church, and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by
>>>>>>>>>>>> the way, I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable
>>>>>>>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists, Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spirit child of god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name) that basically all people living christlike lives
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormon, a central part of my faith is that, some day, either in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this life or the next, all people will have the chance to hear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gospel of Christ. Were this not true, God would not be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fair and just God because, throughout the ages, there have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> billions of people who literally never even heard of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ. I can't believe in a God who would damn someone merely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because they were never exposed to Christ in mortal life, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because they chose to live by their original faith instead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commandments to the best of their abilities before being saved,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. I'm just rambling...but basically I believe that, just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because someone dies without faith in Christ, I don't believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are ultimately condemned to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views on Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand I'm not trying to spark controversy, I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to debate anyone here, and I'm not trying to impose my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith on anyone. But, with that disclaimer out of the way, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to answer one point that was made earlier on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify themselves as Christian. I think I understand why,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although I whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately boils down to your definition of a Christian. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only Christians are those who worship the Trinity as God,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and confess the Nycene creed, then I suppose we Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians. But, by that definition, you're excluding some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most Christian people among us. Consider Joshua Lester,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate, distinctive personages who are one in purpose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious. Anyone who accepts Christ as lord and savior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relies exclusively upon him as the only means of salvation is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian. For us as Mormons Jesus is not just a good moral
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide for an excelent life. He isn't just an inspired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or prophet- he is a member of the godhead, our redemer and,
>>>>>>> ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity. In my book, if you agree with that, you're a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian. So despite the numerous and significant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theological
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences between Catholics and Protestants and Mormons and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox Christians, we all have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> common ground. Are Mormons Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed at some of the things they said. However, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case there is no need for embarrassment. i felt that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information I gave in my reply would be good for the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 other major religions of the world (Judaism and Islam),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we're currently studying the reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time that all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible for the "common people" to read, while the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the bible should be read and understood by each and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding right, it is your belief that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majesterium/teaching arm of the Roman Catholic church is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply clarifying the revelation already given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation of God. If I'm understanding right, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement between Catholics and Protestants is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of interpretation of the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct" way to look at scripture, while in Protestant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity it is more open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization, but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made. You said something to the effect of believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith's vissions were genuine, but not valid. So...for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, as a Catholic, do you think he was misguided?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken in taking it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your honest opinion and I'm not going to take it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally I'm convinced God has inspired them all. That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't mean I believe with everything every faith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I see the hand of God throughout the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the idea of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your
>>>>>>> thoughts on it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see that it's motto is "peace, love, service". I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my work of evangelization is to spread these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attitudes of Christ even in the secular world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few worthwhile distractions in life. But I am curious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I definitely don't mean to offend, if there are any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-christian regular readers of this mailinglist? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want this thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in talking with and learning from people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other faiths. If that's you, and you wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking, would you please email me off-list? I won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> procelyte- I won't try to baptize you or anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/j
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ohn%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ministry,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/ki
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/compu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettie
>>>>>>>>>>>> cosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.cr
>>>>>>>>>>> azydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computer
>>>>>>>>>> techjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecos
>>>>>>>>> p%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computerte
>>>>>>>> chjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/awheeler65%40win
>>>>>>> dstream.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>
>>
>
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