[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Joshua Lester
jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Sat Apr 30 04:37:27 UTC 2011
Yeah, but notice, that we don't strike anyone, or make them surrender
to us, like the Muslems are instructed to do.
We're more loving.
Blessings, Joshua
On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes.
> but that verse is folloed by:
> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>
>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between Muslim and
>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ. You are not
>> forced to follow the strict practices. Another difference is that Muslims
>> are told to kill the infidels. In the old Testament, God did tell the
>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place. But when Jesus came, He
>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy or
>> Leviticus says. The law was given to us to see that we sin. "All have
>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When Jesus came, He asked who
>> would cast the first stone. Christians are taught to love the sinner but
>> hate the sin. If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>> Barbara
>>
>>
>>
>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>> Their golden peals of laughter
>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>
>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims have
>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>
>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>
>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being a
>>> Christian as i understand it. it is the personal relationship we have
>>> with Christ that saves us. being a good person or not being a good
>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i understand
>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being and are
>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ or God
>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would be hard
>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why not
>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would be no
>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ here.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>> Christian
>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a bad
>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>>> after
>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>>> that
>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life might
>>>> have
>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the only
>>>> way
>>>> is through Christ.
>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of an
>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the only
>>>> one
>>>> who can judge.
>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of person"
>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along who
>>>> blows
>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>> intended in
>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and the
>>>> second
>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that first
>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen, such as
>>>> the
>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for everything
>>>> that
>>>> goes wrong.
>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked forward
>>>> to
>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this is
>>>> my
>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will go
>>>> to
>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made on
>>>> the
>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>> need
>>>> for hell either.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>> commandments
>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>>> they
>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>>> for
>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know Christ,
>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>
>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on the
>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>
>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either never
>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone like
>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to hell
>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there fore
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain the
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a religion
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory has
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior to
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic church,
>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God. Christians,
>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit child
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an idea
>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the name)
>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access to
>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ. Were
>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ in
>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original faith
>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I
>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth, they
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone dies
>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please understand
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But, with
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that was
>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not identify
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why, although I
>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately boils
>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians are
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that definition,
>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us. Consider
>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from the
>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three separate,
>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in the
>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively upon
>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life. He
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So despite the
>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there is
>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to John,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic, do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your thoughts on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize you or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>
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