[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Amy Ragain
belovedconsecrated2god at gmail.com
Sat Apr 30 15:19:48 UTC 2011
amen!!
On Apr 29, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> Jews and Muslems have been at war with each other, since the beginning.
> The Jews' God was Yahweh, and the Muslems worship Ala.
> Yahweh is the God of Isaac, (the Jews claim Isaac to be the father of
> the Jewish race.)
> Ishmael, (Isaac's half-brother,) is considered the father of the
> Arabic race, (Muslems.)
> They worship two separate gods.
> Yahweh, (to us,) is Jesus, because Jesus calls himself Yahweh, in
> John, 5, where he said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
> Yahweh semply means, I am.
> Ala is a named derived from the name of the moon god, worshiped by
> people in Muhammad's day.
> We, (Christians and Muslems,) do not both worship the same god.
> Christianity came out of Judaism, but Islam is its own separate religion.
> It's no secret, that Muslems hate Jews.
> In Arab countries, they teach the children to chant, "Arabs are
> beloved, Jews are dogs."
> They've fought, and fought.
> They will continue to fight, until Jesus comes again.
> I'm on the side of Israel, and I always will be.
> I know, that some Muslems are peaceful, but I'm refering to the
> popular Islam, that's talked about on the news.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well I'm not muslim so I won't defend them,
>> but from what I understand he's the same name for our God.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 9:16 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>>
>>> the old testament tells us ther is only one true God, as i understand it
>>> ala is not the one true god, he is a different god, sorry but that is what
>>> i understand.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>> To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>; "Faith-talk,for the discussion of
>>> faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>
>>>
>>> Very interesting.
>>> Despite my firm belief in Jesus Christ, and the Catholic faith, I have
>>> also talked to Muslim friends of mine and we agree on many things.
>>>
>>> Interestingly enough, Islam itself is a word that means, submission to
>>> Allah (God), so it makes sense that Jesus was considered a good Muslim
>>> however, according to what I've read,
>>> there is no mention of Jesus after his birth in the Quran.
>>> Please let me know if you can tell me the versus in which his life and
>>> passion are referenced.
>>>
>>> I am a firm believer in Christianity but like to research other religions
>>> as I believe this simply makes my understanding overall of other people's
>>> religions and customs much better and thereby strengthens me as a
>>> believer.
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 11:32 PM, qubit wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings again --
>>>> This list has been active lately...
>>>>
>>>> I am not muslim, as defined by any of the branches of Islam, but I have a
>>>> brother who has read considerably the muslim writings including several
>>>> translations of the Quran, and I also have read a little in the Quran out
>>>> of
>>>> curiosity.
>>>> I have read only through Surah 2, but it is true there are many good and
>>>> peaceful teachings in this part of the Quran. However, like the Bible,
>>>> there are also harsh parts of the Quran that lead many to justify violent
>>>> behavior such as is in the news. This however, is also true of the Bible
>>>> --
>>>> there are parts of the Bible that can be twisted to justify a lot of
>>>> unchristian behaviors. (I'm not equating the Bible and the Quran -- they
>>>> are very different.)
>>>> Your statement that muslims don't believe Jesus is Christ actually is
>>>> false.
>>>> According to my brother, the Quran calls Jesus the Messiah, and in fact
>>>> includes an interesting telling of Mary and the virgin conception of
>>>> Jesus,
>>>> plus a discussion of his life and crucifixion. I'm afraid i don't know
>>>> what
>>>> it says about the resurrection, but according to my brother, the Quran
>>>> refers to Jesus and his disciples as true muslims, because of their
>>>> willingness to submit to God (Allah).
>>>> My brother even compares the English translations to the original Arabic,
>>>> and has discovers some interesting information -- such as the word
>>>> usually
>>>> translated as "Christians" in the English translations of the Quran, is
>>>> actually the name of a group of Arabs in Muhammad's time who had a belief
>>>> about Christianity that Muhammad disagreed with. It has nothing to do
>>>> with
>>>> modern Christians, or even the Christians that fought in the crusades,
>>>> which
>>>> was centuries after Muhammad's time.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, my brother also discovered inconsistencies in the various English
>>>> translations of the Quran -- one English version clashed in meaning with
>>>> the
>>>> others.
>>>> He also claims that if you look at the original Arabic, the verses in
>>>> question agree with verses of the New Testament that discuss the mission
>>>> of
>>>> Jesus and related things. However, what he has found is that Christian
>>>> and
>>>> Muslim scholars believe the Bible and Quran clash, and when he tries to
>>>> point out the verses in question, he is met with mixed reactions. The
>>>> Christians he talks to find his discovery interesting, while the muslims
>>>> almost always get hot under the collar. He has even been escorted out of
>>>> places and asked not to come back...
>>>>
>>>> One verse in the Quran I found a little incredulous was Sura 2:256
>>>> "There is no compulsion in religion..."
>>>> I guess it surprised me.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the rambling.
>>>> Funny thing: even with all the negative reaction my brother gets from
>>>> most
>>>> muslims who listen to him, he was told by one man that he thought my
>>>> brother
>>>> was a true muslim. My brother took it as a compliment.
>>>>
>>>> I do want to say one thing more:
>>>> i agree that there is some truth in all world religions, but that doesn't
>>>> mean all of their writings are correct or agree.
>>>> I don't think you can put 2 religions -- like Christianity and Buddhism
>>>> --
>>>> side by side and find they are really the same.
>>>> An example -- I once read the book "The Power of Myth", which tried to
>>>> tie
>>>> all the world's myths and religious beliefs together by looking for
>>>> similarities. I also saw the author interviewed on PBS. It sounded
>>>> interested, until I got to the part where Buddhism and Christianity were
>>>> discussed. The author actually tried to equate the missions of Buddha
>>>> and
>>>> Jesus.
>>>> I knew a lot about Christianity, and not so much about Buddhism, but the
>>>> discussion didn't feel right. I read a little more about Buddha and my
>>>> conclusion were that while Jesus and Buddha were compassionate spiritual
>>>> leaders, their missions were quite different. I also didn't feel like it
>>>> was appropriate to call Jesus a myth. The author also misrepresented
>>>> or
>>>> took liberties with the story told in scripture, which I felt he couldn't
>>>> do. I also felt that if he couldn't get Christianity right, which I did
>>>> have
>>>> a knowledge about, how could I trust what he had to say about the other
>>>> religions? I would rather research themby talking to persons who live
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, have a nice evening.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan:
>>>> With all due respect,
>>>> you have to be aware the bible uses complex langauge structures.
>>>> For example: have you ever tried reading Revelations?
>>>> You should, but it is a very complicated book to understand.
>>>>
>>>> What he means by the Father threw me is simple:
>>>> if you know him, you know the father.
>>>>
>>>> But… and this is an important point,
>>>> it is a greater crime to not believe in God, then it is to not recognize
>>>> Jesus.
>>>>
>>>> After all, muslims don't recognize Jesus as the Christ and yet their
>>>> codes
>>>> of ethics stand amongst one of the strictest, and strongest I've seen.
>>>>
>>>> There are many muslims I know who would put so-called Christians to shae
>>>> with their devotion to God.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying they are bound to hell?
>>>>
>>>> Not attacking you, just wondering.
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Alan Wheeler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, it is Christ, Himself, who said He is the only way:
>>>>> John 14
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have
>>>>> told
>>>>> you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
>>>>> 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you
>>>>> to
>>>>> be with me that you also may be where I am.
>>>>> 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
>>>>> 5 ¶Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how
>>>>> can
>>>>> we know the way?”
>>>>> 6 ¶Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
>>>>> comes
>>>>> to
>>>>> the Father except through me.
>>>>> 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on,
>>>>> you
>>>>> do know him and have seen him.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Take note, Jesus didn't say "I am *A* way, *A* truth, and *A* life," but
>>>>> rather said "I am *THE* way, *THE* truth, and *THE* life." Use of the
>>>>> word
>>>>> "the" in that context denotes singleness or exclusivity. So, Jesus was,
>>>>> in
>>>>> essence saying he was the only way, the only truth, and the only life.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:11 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>> Christ is who we Christians say is the only way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think its a bigger crime not to believe in God, E.G., atheists, then
>>>>> not
>>>>> to believe in Christ.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked forward
>>>>>> to
>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this is
>>>>> my
>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will go
>>>>> to
>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made on
>>>>> the
>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>>> need
>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>>>>> they
>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>>>>> for
>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know Christ,
>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on the
>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>> never heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone
>>>>>>>> like Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go
>>>>>>>> to hell simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was
>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>> fore is not reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just
>>>>>>>>> what i believe, if you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how
>>>>>>>>> to you explain the need for Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God, only
>>>>>>>>>> those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a religion or
>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory has
>>>>>>>>>> been written by Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember
>>>>>>>>>> his name prior to this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>> church, and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by
>>>>>>>>>> the way, I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans,
>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists, Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a
>>>>>>>>>>> spirit child of god.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>> idea advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall
>>>>>>>>>>> the name) that basically all people living christlike lives have
>>>>>>>>>>> access to Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a
>>>>>>>>>>> Mormon, a central part of my faith is that, some day, either in
>>>>>>>>>>> this life or the next, all people will have the chance to hear
>>>>>>>>>>> the gospel of Christ. Were this not true, God would not be a
>>>>>>>>>>> fair and just God because, throughout the ages, there have been
>>>>>>>>>>> billions of people who literally never even heard of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>> Christ. I can't believe in a God who would damn someone merely
>>>>>>>>>>> because they were never exposed to Christ in mortal life, or
>>>>>>>>>>> because they chose to live by their original faith instead,
>>>>>>>>>>> without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I believe
>>>>>>>>>>> that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and Muslims and
>>>>>>>>>>> HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people who
>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth, they
>>>>>>>>>>> will all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his
>>>>>>>>>>> commandments to the best of their abilities before being saved,
>>>>>>>>>>> though. I'm just rambling...but basically I believe that, just
>>>>>>>>>>> because someone dies without faith in Christ, I don't believe they
>>>>> are ultimately condemned to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text, you will
>>>>>>>>>>>> see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>> "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>>> views on Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand I'm not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to debate anyone here, and I'm not trying to impose my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith on anyone. But, with that disclaimer out of the way, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to answer one point that was made earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify themselves as Christian. I think I understand why,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> although I whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately boils down to your definition of a Christian. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only Christians are those who worship the Trinity as God,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and confess the Nycene creed, then I suppose we Mormons aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians. But, by that definition, you're excluding some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most Christian people among us. Consider Joshua Lester, a
>>>>> oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate, distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> world for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious. Anyone who accepts Christ as lord and savior and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> relies exclusively upon him as the only means of salvation is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian. For us as Mormons Jesus is not just a good moral
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide for an excelent life. He isn't just an inspired teacher
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or prophet- he is a member of the godhead, our redemer and,
>>>>> ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity. In my book, if you agree with that, you're a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian. So despite the numerous and significant theological
>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences between Catholics and Protestants and Mormons and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox Christians, we all have that
>>>>> common ground. Are Mormons Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed at some of the things they said. However, in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case there is no need for embarrassment. i felt that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information I gave in my reply would be good for the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 other major religions of the world (Judaism and Islam),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we're currently studying the reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time that all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible for the "common people" to read, while the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the bible should be read and understood by each and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding right, it is your belief that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majesterium/teaching arm of the Roman Catholic church is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply clarifying the revelation already given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation of God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement between Catholics and Protestants is a matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of interpretation of the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct" way to look at scripture, while in Protestant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity it is more open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization, but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made. You said something to the effect of believing Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith's vissions were genuine, but not valid. So...for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, as a Catholic, do you think he was misguided?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken in taking it too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended, I want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your honest opinion and I'm not going to take it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally I'm convinced God has inspired them all. That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't mean I believe with everything every faith claims,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I see the hand of God throughout the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the idea of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your
>>>>> thoughts on it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see that it's motto is "peace, love, service". I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my work of evangelization is to spread these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attitudes of Christ even in the secular world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few worthwhile distractions in life. But I am curious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I definitely don't mean to offend, if there are any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-christian regular readers of this mailinglist? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want this thread to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in talking with and learning from people from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other faiths. If that's you, and you wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking, would you please email me off-list? I won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> procelyte- I won't try to baptize you or anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/j
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ohn%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital Ministry,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/ki
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> putertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>> .crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/compu
>>>>>>>>>>> tertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettie
>>>>>>>>>> cosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.cr
>>>>>>>>> azydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computer
>>>>>>>> techjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecos
>>>>>>> p%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computerte
>>>>>> chjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/awheeler65%40win
>>>>> dstream.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/belovedconsecrated2god%40gmail.com
More information about the Faith-Talk
mailing list