[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
qubit
lauraeaves at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 30 19:14:16 UTC 2011
Hi -- This is definitely true, but in practice, not supported by the
Quran -- I couldn't help but shrug when I read in the Quran Sura 2:256:
"There is no compulsion in religion..." This is definitely not the way
most Islamic groups treat their members.
So yes, once a muslim, probably always a muslim.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy Ragain" <belovedconsecrated2god at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
amen!
On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between Muslim and
> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ. You are not
> forced to follow the strict practices. Another difference is that Muslims
> are told to kill the infidels. In the old Testament, God did tell the
> Israelites to kill all the people in a place. But when Jesus came, He
> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy or
> Leviticus says. The law was given to us to see that we sin. "All have
> sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When Jesus came, He asked who
> would cast the first stone. Christians are taught to love the sinner but
> hate the sin. If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
> Barbara
>
>
>
> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
> Echo voices of children now grown,
> Their golden peals of laughter
> Ring upon the ivied stone.
> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims have
> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>
> It is not a matter of who's right,
> but who's message is right for whom.
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>
>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being a
>> Christian as i understand it. it is the personal relationship we have
>> with Christ that saves us. being a good person or not being a good
>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i understand
>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being and are
>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ or God
>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would be hard
>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why not
>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would be no
>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ here.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>
>>
>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>> Christian
>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a bad
>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>> after
>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>> that
>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life might
>>> have
>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the only
>>> way
>>> is through Christ.
>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of an
>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the only
>>> one
>>> who can judge.
>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of person"
>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along who
>>> blows
>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>> intended in
>>> my choice of terms...)
>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and the
>>> second
>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that first
>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen, such as
>>> the
>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for everything
>>> that
>>> goes wrong.
>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>> --le
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>
>>>
>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked forward
>>> to
>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this is
>>> my
>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will go
>>> to
>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made on
>>> the
>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>> need
>>> for hell either.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>
>>>
>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>> commandments
>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>
>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>> they
>>>> did not know him?
>>>>
>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>> for
>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>
>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know Christ,
>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>
>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on the
>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>
>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either never
>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone like
>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to hell
>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there fore
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain the
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a religion
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory has
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior to
>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic church,
>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God. Christians,
>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit child
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an idea
>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the name)
>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access to
>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ. Were
>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ in
>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original faith
>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I
>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth, they
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone dies
>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in Jesus
>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please understand
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate anyone
>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But, with
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that was
>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not identify
>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why, although I
>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately boils
>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians are
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that definition,
>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us. Consider
>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from the
>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three separate,
>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in the
>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively upon
>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as Mormons
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life. He
>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for eternity.
>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So despite the
>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there is
>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to John,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study the 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic, do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your thoughts on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize you or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
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