[Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Tue Aug 9 13:51:29 UTC 2011

I feel the need to expand on what I have been saying. I have prayed to God
to help me better express myself and I believe that what I am about to say
comes from a word that God has placed in my heart.

I do not believe that salvation can be won, lost, won, lost, won...

I believe that salvation is either secured or it is not.

I believe that one can go to church, hear about the good news, see the work
of Christ in other people's lives, understand the scope of the sacrifice and
still not be saved. This is what I mean when I say that one can know the
grace, mercy and love of god and turn away from that knowledge.

How many people have left great relationships because of selfishness? How
many people have allowed themselves to be separated from loving parents
because of a root of bitterness that has taken hold of their lives because
of other circumstances?

They know that they were loved, that they were cared for, but, because of
underlying problems in their lives, they turned away from that love and
care.

One who puts Jesus above past hurts, past wrongs, past problems, and seeks
after Him with all their heart has secured salvation and I don't believe
that there is a desire for that salvation to be lost. Those people cannot be
plucked from God's hand. If we seek after God, we can not be taken away from
His saving grace. It is our will, our desire that will cause us to turn away
from God, it is not God's will that we turn away. It is not God's will to
turn us away.

This is why I do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I
think it is a mute point. Why would we need to say that we were once saved
so we will always be saved. If we are truly saved, we know that and there is
no need to say it. However, if we claim to be saved and live by the world's
standard and we are confronted about that life, then we might feel justified
in saying that we were once saved and so our sinful conduct is no concern to
us because we were saved before.

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Rex Leslie Howard, Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:15 AM
To: 'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Faith without works is dead. It is impossible to please God without faith.
Therefore if works represent faith and faith represents the pleasing of God,
where does that leave us?

It leaves us with this: Certainly works cannot save us lest any man should
boast of his works but it does provide for reward.

Again, I say that the real issue isn't whether one can lose his or her
salvation but that a true believer has no desire to lose his or her
salvation. There are people who believe that if they go to church, help
their neighbor, study the word, etc, they are saved.

Being saved is a condition of the heart, not a condition of works.
Therefore, if the heart is not right, then the reward for works has no
effect because there is no security of salvation. 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't do works because I want a greater reward in
Heaven, I do works because my heart compels me to do so.

People ask me sometimes why I care about their salvation. Why should I care
about them? Because it is in my heart to care about them. I have a heart for
the lost and I want to reach out to them with the good news. I don't reach
out to them because I'm worried about my salvation or because I seek a
reward in Heaven.

I believe we get confused about this thing called works and faith and we try
to say that people who do not believe in the "once saved, always saved"
doctrine are saying that our works save. Our works do not save. Works are a
demonstration of faith and nothing more or less.

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Barbara Hammel
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:37 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Once you are saved--have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior--you cannot 
lose your salvation.  If you can lose it and then gain it back, it is works 
that are saving you.  Works cannot save you.  Jesus offers the free gift of 
salvation--to live with Him forever--if you only reach out and take the gift

He offers.  Baptism can't save you.  Going to church every time the doors 
are open won't save you.  Helping your neighbor down the street when a need 
arises won't save you.
And we all are sinners saved by grace because until the day we die we will 
continue to sin.  Those bad things we asked forgiveness of when we prayed 
the sinner's prayer and accepted God's free gift have been wiped clean.  But

from then on we must try not to do wrong but if we do, we must ask 
forgiveness.  For if we cannot ask for forgiveness how do we expect to be 
forgiven.
Barbara

Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay 
any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose 
any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.--John 
F. Kennedy
-----Original Message----- 
From: Rex Leslie Howard, Jr.
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:19 PM
To: 'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

I'm going to try and articulate something that is in my heart with regard to
that "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I don't know if I will be
successful in saying what I feel but here goes.

I do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine because it
represents to me a term that I've heard people use. I've heard people refer
to some as "carnal Christians." How on earth can one be a "carnal
Christian." Either one is Christian and wanting to live within the will of
god, or one is not Christian and desires to live by the world's standards.

I have issue with the term "carnal Christian" just as I do with the term
"born again Christian." One can't be a Christian unless one is born again,
so how can one be a "born again Christian?" Can one be a "born again
Atheist?"

Not in my opinion.

I believe it comes down to this: either we are saved or we are not. A saved
person doesn't want to lose his or her salvation so the point of "once
saved, always saved" is mute as far as I am concerned.

I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this but I think the "once saved,
always saved" doctrine is a cop-out for those who aren't really saved. It is
a term, I believe, adopted by those who want to confess themselves as
Christians and yet be a part of the carnality of this world.

I am, in no way, saying that this is a description for Baptists. I believe
that many Baptists don't subscribe to the "once saved, always saved"
doctrine. I believe that the real issue is not whether salvation can be lost
but that one who is truly a Christian doesn't desire, at all, to lose that
salvation.

I believe that one can turn one's back on god, after knowing of God's grace,
love and mercy and, as a result, the sacrifice of Christ Jesus becomes null
and void in their lives. I believe that, at this point, God turns them over
to a reprobate mind where they have no desire to know Him.

Remember, I believe that one who is truly saved wants to please God and not
be conformed to this world. Will a righteous person fall? Yes the word tells
us this may happen, but a righteous person gets up again and seeks after God
with a repentant and contrite heart. Does a righteous person want to fall?
No, I don't believe so.

Did that make any sense at all?

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:02 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

How do you know that's what her particular Baptist church teaches? Not all
Baptist churches teach "Once saved always saved," RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

> That's what I was saying.
> She needs Jesus.
> The problem is, she thinks she's already saved.
> They're in a Baptist church, that teaches, that if you were saved at
> one point, you're always saved, no matter what you do.
> That's why she said, on those jailhouse tapes, that she was reading
> her Bible, and praying.
> She needs to, but there's too much, that she's showing, that doesn't
> show true Biblical Christianity.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 8/8/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>> Wow! What an interesting and thought provoking question. I would imagine
>> that there are many different feelings and viewpoints on this issue.
>>
>> My opinion is that of course she should be forgiven. Jesus, who was pure
>> and
>> sinless, asked for the forgiveness of those who persecuted and crucified
>> him, therefore I believe that Casey should be forgiven. But, by whom? I
>> don't have anything to forgive her for. She did not trespass against me
>> although she has certainly conjured up moral outrage in my mind. Should I
>> repent for those feelings and ask for forgiveness? I believe that my
>> anger
>> towards her is righteous anger. It does not consume me and I do not let
>> the
>> sun set on my anger towards her.
>>
>> Would this anger keep me from ministering to her if I had the
>> opportunity?
>> Certainly not.
>>
>> I would certainly attempt to minister to her and perhaps she would see
>> God's
>> will and God's love in my ministering. If she did not and refused to hear
>> the good news, then I could say that I did all that I could do to reach
>> her.
>>
>> Should those who are directly effected by her conduct exercise
>> forgiveness
>> to her. Yes I believe they should. Should they put themselves in
>> positions
>> where she might hurt them again or violate their trust or do something
>> harmful to them? No.
>>
>> Forgiveness does not mean that we put our trust in those who have
>> violated
>> that trust. It does, however, mean that we put our trust in God and use
>> every opportunity to show God's love, grace and mercy to those for whom
>> we
>> have exercised forgiveness. In showing that love, we have done all that
>> we
>> can do and it is up to God to grow whatever seeds we have planted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 3:31 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>
>> Should Casey Anthony be forgiven? Should we as Christians reach out to
>> her?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rex%40littlelaw.
>> com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
udents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande
fur%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rex%40littlelaw.
com

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.
com 

_______________________________________________
Faith-talk mailing list
Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Faith-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rex%40littlelaw.
com