[Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Tue Aug 9 16:22:48 UTC 2011

Joshua, this is absolutely great!

I especially like the following comments you made:

You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're saved.

God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.

Amen and amen!

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

First of all, (in regards to "Once Saved, Always Saved,") I'm writing
a pamphlet on it.
Here it is, for you to read.
The origins of "Predestination, and Election," began at the founding
of the Roman Catholic Church.
Two bishops debated this issue.
One was Augustine, and the other was Armenius.
Augustine believed that some were predestined to be saved, (the Elect
of God,) and some were born to be lost.
He became a saint, in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Greek
Orthodox Church calls him, "Augustine the Blessed."
Armenius believed, that God gave us a free will.
We can choose to respond to the Spirit's call, to be saved.
Salvation is for all.
Not all will be saved, because they choose not to respond to God's
call, on them.
In the 1700's, two men debated this same doctrine, in Protestant
Christianity.
John Calvin, and John Wesley.
John Calvin preached Predestination, and Election, but invented
"Unconditional Eternal Security," ("Once Saved, Always Saved.")
Wesley believed the Free Will message, and preached a fiery holiness
message.
I was raised in the Holiness movement, and would encourage you, to
read Wesley's writings, because they're scriptural.
Calvin's quotes are very hard to take in.
He was a friend of Charles Darwin, and he is noted to have said, that
God could have had a hand in evolution.
Here's the worst quote, of Calvin.
Every time I think of Predestination, and Once Saved, Always Saved, I
feel an uneasy feeling, because of his words.
"There will be babies in Hell, the size of the span of a man's hand."
In the 1950's, a man named William Marion Branham brought these
doctrines over into Pentecost.
He was a Baptist preacher, (Southern Baptist.)
His wife died, and God told him, where he needed to be.
He joined the United Pentecostal Church International, and was
baptized in Jesus name.
He taught the "Oneness," message, (as I do.)
Things changed, when he tried to unify the UPCI, and the AG.
It was during that mission, that he met evangelist, "Little," David Walker.
After Little David's ministry ended, Branham started preaching,
(instead of prophesying.)
He said things like, he was the 7th angel of Revelation, and that he
was the last apostle.
He also taught, that if you didn't obey his message, you weren't saved.
He added 2 new doctrines to Calvin, and Augustine.
#1. Serpent Seed, (the serpent beguiled Eve, and from that encounter,
Cain was born.)
If you're a descendant of Cain, (Serpent's seed,) you cannot be saved.
For starters, the Bible says, that Adam knew Eve, and she bore Cain,
so Adam is Cain's earthly father, (not the serpent.)
Even if that logic was true, you'd understand that the Cainites,
(Cain's descendant,) are gone.
They were destroyed, in the flood.
#2. The Illegitimate Child doctrine is one, that I take issue with.
It states, that if you were born out of wedlock, you cannot be saved.
Well then, how am I saved?
I was born out of wedlock, yet I'm saved, because I obeyed Acts, 2:38.
I responded to God's call.
It would be sad to be in the shoes of people, who believe the logic of
Augustine, Calvin, and Branham.
It would be sad to live my life thinking I was saved, and then find
out, when it's too late, that I was never saved, and not even
predestined for salvation.
Nobody knows.
As a Free Will Message believer, I know I'm saved, because God
convicted me of my sins, I repented, was baptized, and received the
Holy Ghost.
I know I'm saved, and I'm on my way to Heaven.
Eternal security is conditional, (not unconditional.)
Once you're saved, there are things in God's word, you have to obey.
The law was not done away with, it was fulfilled.
There's a difference.
You have to live holy before God.
You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're saved.
I like what Bishop AO Holmes said.
"It's holiness, or Hell!"
You've got to live right.
God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.
Blessings, Joshua

On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> how judemental, everyone slips from time to time, there no one perfect but
> Jesus, backsliders are folks who are struggling and need Christ,  as we
all
> do, baptism is a public declaration of our comitment to Christ not a
> requirement of salvation.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>
>
>> Baptism alone doesn't save, but it's part of it.
>> See, 1 Peter, 3:21.
>> Backsliders, aren't saved.
>> They turned away from God, therefore,) they've lost their salvation.
>> See, 1 John, Chapter 4.
>> There's a verse that says, "He that comiteth sins, is of the devil.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 8/8/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>> Once you are saved--have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior--you
>>> cannot
>>> lose your salvation.  If you can lose it and then gain it back, it is
>>> works
>>> that are saving you.  Works cannot save you.  Jesus offers the free gift
>>> of
>>> salvation--to live with Him forever--if you only reach out and take the
>>> gift
>>> He offers.  Baptism can't save you.  Going to church every time the
doors
>>> are open won't save you.  Helping your neighbor down the street when a
>>> need
>>> arises won't save you.
>>> And we all are sinners saved by grace because until the day we die we
>>> will
>>> continue to sin.  Those bad things we asked forgiveness of when we
prayed
>>> the sinner's prayer and accepted God's free gift have been wiped clean.
>>> But
>>> from then on we must try not to do wrong but if we do, we must ask
>>> forgiveness.  For if we cannot ask for forgiveness how do we expect to
be
>>> forgiven.
>>> Barbara
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay
>>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose
>>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>> liberty.--John
>>> F. Kennedy
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rex Leslie Howard, Jr.
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:19 PM
>>> To: 'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>
>>> I'm going to try and articulate something that is in my heart with
regard
>>>
>>> to
>>> that "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I don't know if I will be
>>> successful in saying what I feel but here goes.
>>>
>>> I do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine because it
>>> represents to me a term that I've heard people use. I've heard people
>>> refer
>>> to some as "carnal Christians." How on earth can one be a "carnal
>>> Christian." Either one is Christian and wanting to live within the will
>>> of
>>> god, or one is not Christian and desires to live by the world's
>>> standards.
>>>
>>> I have issue with the term "carnal Christian" just as I do with the term
>>> "born again Christian." One can't be a Christian unless one is born
>>> again,
>>> so how can one be a "born again Christian?" Can one be a "born again
>>> Atheist?"
>>>
>>> Not in my opinion.
>>>
>>> I believe it comes down to this: either we are saved or we are not. A
>>> saved
>>> person doesn't want to lose his or her salvation so the point of "once
>>> saved, always saved" is mute as far as I am concerned.
>>>
>>> I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this but I think the "once
>>> saved,
>>> always saved" doctrine is a cop-out for those who aren't really saved.
It
>>>
>>> is
>>> a term, I believe, adopted by those who want to confess themselves as
>>> Christians and yet be a part of the carnality of this world.
>>>
>>> I am, in no way, saying that this is a description for Baptists. I
>>> believe
>>> that many Baptists don't subscribe to the "once saved, always saved"
>>> doctrine. I believe that the real issue is not whether salvation can be
>>> lost
>>> but that one who is truly a Christian doesn't desire, at all, to lose
>>> that
>>> salvation.
>>>
>>> I believe that one can turn one's back on god, after knowing of God's
>>> grace,
>>> love and mercy and, as a result, the sacrifice of Christ Jesus becomes
>>> null
>>> and void in their lives. I believe that, at this point, God turns them
>>> over
>>> to a reprobate mind where they have no desire to know Him.
>>>
>>> Remember, I believe that one who is truly saved wants to please God and
>>> not
>>> be conformed to this world. Will a righteous person fall? Yes the word
>>> tells
>>> us this may happen, but a righteous person gets up again and seeks after
>>> God
>>> with a repentant and contrite heart. Does a righteous person want to
>>> fall?
>>> No, I don't believe so.
>>>
>>> Did that make any sense at all?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:02 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>
>>> How do you know that's what her particular Baptist church teaches? Not
>>> all
>>> Baptist churches teach "Once saved always saved," RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's what I was saying.
>>>> She needs Jesus.
>>>> The problem is, she thinks she's already saved.
>>>> They're in a Baptist church, that teaches, that if you were saved at
>>>> one point, you're always saved, no matter what you do.
>>>> That's why she said, on those jailhouse tapes, that she was reading
>>>> her Bible, and praying.
>>>> She needs to, but there's too much, that she's showing, that doesn't
>>>> show true Biblical Christianity.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 8/8/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>>> Wow! What an interesting and thought provoking question. I would
>>>>> imagine
>>>>> that there are many different feelings and viewpoints on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> My opinion is that of course she should be forgiven. Jesus, who was
>>>>> pure
>>>>> and
>>>>> sinless, asked for the forgiveness of those who persecuted and
>>>>> crucified
>>>>> him, therefore I believe that Casey should be forgiven. But, by whom?
I
>>>>> don't have anything to forgive her for. She did not trespass against
me
>>>>> although she has certainly conjured up moral outrage in my mind.
Should
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> repent for those feelings and ask for forgiveness? I believe that my
>>>>> anger
>>>>> towards her is righteous anger. It does not consume me and I do not
let
>>>>> the
>>>>> sun set on my anger towards her.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would this anger keep me from ministering to her if I had the
>>>>> opportunity?
>>>>> Certainly not.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would certainly attempt to minister to her and perhaps she would see
>>>>> God's
>>>>> will and God's love in my ministering. If she did not and refused to
>>>>> hear
>>>>> the good news, then I could say that I did all that I could do to
reach
>>>>> her.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should those who are directly effected by her conduct exercise
>>>>> forgiveness
>>>>> to her. Yes I believe they should. Should they put themselves in
>>>>> positions
>>>>> where she might hurt them again or violate their trust or do something
>>>>> harmful to them? No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Forgiveness does not mean that we put our trust in those who have
>>>>> violated
>>>>> that trust. It does, however, mean that we put our trust in God and
use
>>>>> every opportunity to show God's love, grace and mercy to those for
whom
>>>>> we
>>>>> have exercised forgiveness. In showing that love, we have done all
that
>>>>> we
>>>>> can do and it is up to God to grow whatever seeds we have planted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 3:31 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>> Should Casey Anthony be forgiven? Should we as Christians reach out to
>>>>> her?
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