[Faith-talk] sin!

Tue Aug 9 19:28:47 UTC 2011

Amen!
It's sad, how the United Methodist Church has turned away from
Wesley's teachings.
Blessings, Joshua

On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
> Oh, of course I've read John Wesley's writings, along with Calvin, Martin
> Luther, Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, John gill, James Coffman, Soren
> Kierkegaard and many many others.
>
> I want to know as much about my creator and savior as I possibly can. Some
> people say I'm crazy for reading so much but I tell them that we don't drive
> to work through pastures and fields, we use pre-existing routes so that we
> don't get lost or bogged down in our travels. I believe that we must travel
> in the ruts of those who have come before us. If someone tells me they have
> a divine revelation from God and it doesn't match up with scripture, I don't
> believe them and I take their words with a grain of salt.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 1:31 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] sin!
>
> Rex, using your ideas, I can agree.
> I agree with what you're saying, but John Wesley words it differently.
> Have you read Wesley's writings?
> We as believers shouldn't live in a lifestyle of sin.
> Those that believe in this "Once saved, always saved," stuff believe
> that we sin, (habitually,) in word, thought and deed.
> That's my problem.
> You have people, that call themselves Christians, but they smoke,
> drink, mess around, etc.
> This reminds me of my youth group.
> I'd ask my friends, (these were boys in my AG youth group,) what
> they've been doing.
> Their response was a joking one, but still sinful.
> "Smoking weed."
> The Bible says, "let no corrupt communication proceed forth, out of thy
> mouth."
> It also says, that we're not to even let sin be mentioned, among us.
> We shouldn't be partaking in sin.
> If we're Christians, (which means Christlike,) we're to be an example.
> We should be different from the world.
> We should listen to Godly music, not secular music.
> We shouldn't watch worldly garbage, on TV.
> We shouldn't tell filthy jokes, or use profanity.
> It bothers me, to hear someone say, "I love Jesus," but their life
> doesn't prove it.
> We shouldn't dress like the world.
> We had a lady, (the wife of the worship leader,) come into church,
> with a halter top.
> Do you know what that is?
> A halter top, is shorter than a mini-skirt.
> Whatever happened to modesty?
> What's going on?
> We, as Christians have put up with too much mess, and God is not pleased!
> He's not returning for a church, like this!
> He's returning for a church, without spot or wrinkle.
> We can't stay in sin.
> We need to repent, (change direction.)
> Repentance isn't, "Oh God, I'm sorry," and then going back into that mess.
> It's asking forgiveness, and living holy, turning your back on sin.
> We no longer are sinners, when we get saved, because the sin nature is dead.
> We only become sinners again, when we let that sin nature resurrect
> itself, but who would want to?
> Keep that flesh crucified daily, and ask God to help you avoid sin.
> "Lead us not, into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
> Lord, keep me, and guide my feet, so I don't stumble back into sin.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>> I have some thoughts on what Joshua said about shortcomings versus sin.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I mess up, and I do sometimes, I consider it sin. I consider it sin
>> because I have acted outside of the will of God. I have acted in
>> disobedience to God's word. I have allowed my flesh to overcome my spirit
>> man.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is not a shortcoming, it is sin.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, it is not willful or habitual. I do not, at any time, wish to
> live
>> in willful or habitual sin.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't like dirty jokes, strong language, fowl movies and the like. Some
>> people may say that I'm a fanatic for taking that approach and that's
> fine,
>> Jesus was called a fanatic so I think I'm in good company.
>>
>>
>>
>> I simply know that if I bring garbage into my heart, garbage will come out
>> of my mouth and eventually garbage would take over my life. The fact that
> I
>> am saved prevents me from ever wanting that to happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are two excerpts regarding sin.
>>
>>
>>
>> The first is from a book called "the Gospel to be Preached," written by
> Dave
>> Andrus. The second is from David Guzik's commentary on I John.
>>
>>
>>
>> >From "the Gospel to be Preached"
>>
>>
>>
>> When we think of sin it is often associated with an act of disobedience.
>> Although true, this is incomplete.  Sin is more than mere conduct or deeds
>> contrary to a rule, command or law.  Sin is an attitude or disposition
>> toward God.  It is from this attitude or disposition, against God, that
>> specific words or deeds originate.  Deeds or acts in and of themselves are
>> not necessarily wrong.  If this were not so, Jesus would not have
> condemned
>> the Pharisees. (Matthew 23)
>>
>>      The Pharisees were very devout law abiding people who believed that
> if
>> you did not do a thing wrong, God would accept you into heaven.  In
> Matthew,
>> chapters 5 through 7, Jesus taught that a person's motivation,
> disposition,
>> and attitudes were also sinful.  As a general rule, behavior does not
>> control a person, but a person controls their behavior.  This corresponds
> to
>> sin in that we are not sinful because we did something wrong.  Instead we
> do
>> wrong things because we are already sinful, inclined to do wrong, right
> from
>> the start. Traditionally we call this original sin.
>>
>>      Why is this important?  It is so for several reasons.  First, anyone
>> who has this attitude or motivation to sin, does not have a good, happy or
>> right relationship with God.  The Bible describes us as enemies of God.
>> (Romans 5:7)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 1 John 3:6 (KJV)Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth
> hath
>> not seen him, neither known him.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1 John 1:7-9 (KJV) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we
>> have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
>> cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive
>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is
>> faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
>> unrighteousness.
>>
>>
>>
>> >From David Guzik's commentary on 1 John.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. (4-5) The nature of sin and Jesus' work in removing our sin.
>>
>> Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And
>> you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is
>> no sin.
>>
>>
>>
>> a. Sin is lawlessness: John defines sin at its most basic root. It is a
>> disregard for the law of God, which is inherently a disregard for the law
>> Maker, God Himself.
>>
>> i. We often fail in the battle against sin because we won't call it for
> what
>> it is: lawlessness, an offense against the Great Law Maker, God. Instead,
> we
>> say things like "If I've done anything wrong . . ." or "Mistakes were made
> .
>> . ." and so forth. Call it for what it is: sin and lawlessness. "The first
>> step towards holy living is to recognize the true nature and wickedness of
>> sin." (Stott)
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. (6) Abiding in sin or abiding in God.
>>
>> Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor
>> known Him.
>>
>> a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a
> disregard
>> for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John
>> 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in
> Him
>> means to not sin.
>>
>> i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it
>> does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense
> John
>> uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John
>> has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive
>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar
> indicates
>> John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6
>> indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin.
>> John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
>>
>> ii. "The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity,
> unbroken
>> sequence" (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these
> verbs
>> with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go
> on
>> sinning.
>>
>> b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John's message is plain and
>> consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style
> of
>> habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A
> true
>> Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
>>
>> i. Paul's teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He
>> shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven
> and
>> God's grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man
> is
>> dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new
>> creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can
> only
>> be temporary for the Christian.
>>
>> ii. In some ways, the question is not "do you sin or not?" We each sin.
> The
>> question is, "How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern
> of
>> sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your
> sin,
>> and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?"
>>
>> iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for
> their
>> sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely,
> it
>> will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their lifestyle -
>> perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
>>
>> iv. What is important is that we never sign a "peace treaty" with sin. We
>> never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, "Everybody has their
> own
>> sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands." This completely goes
>> against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.
>>
>> c. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him: To live a lifestyle of
>> habitual sin is to demonstrate that you have not seen Him (in a present
>> sense of the ultimate "seeing Him mentioned in 1 John 3:2), and that you
>> have not known Him. There are some people so great and so wonderful that
>> seeing them or knowing them will change your life forever. Jesus is that
>> kind of person.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
> udents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rex%40littlelaw.
> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>