[Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Jeanette nettiecosp at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 10 03:33:21 UTC 2011 

i couldn't have said it better myself, thanks, jeanette
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony


> Still, whether you're saved or not, sin is sin.  If you lied before you 
> asked for God's forgiveness, you were a liar.  If you lie after you were 
> saved you still are a liar, just one who asks to be forgiven every time 
> you do it--and hopefully you're trying not to do it.  Our desire is to do 
> better once we become saved so that we can try our hardest to be "Jesus 
> with skin on" to people we share with.
> Just because I'm saved doesn't mean I never willfully do anything against 
> God and His word.  Our sin nature is always with us because we live in the 
> flesh.  God wishes for me to talk to Him every day and read His word every 
> day, but if I choose to not do so, that pushes me away from Him.  Until I 
> come back and do the things I should I won't be very close to Him.  He 
> stays in the same place, I move toward or away from Him.  He is truly the 
> rock because His emotions don't play into His relationship with me.
> Barbara
>
>
>
>
> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay 
> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose 
> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.--John 
> F. Kennedy
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:31 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>
> No.
> The greasy Grace, anything goes mess is in the politically correct 
> churches.
> I believe in holiness, like Wesley preached it.
> We are Christians, and as long as we stay in a repentant lifestyle,
> the desire to sin is gone.
> We are no longer sinners, when we are saved.
> Jesus sees God's righteousness, now.
> We as Christians are the righteousness of God, in Christ, and are
> seated with him, in heavenly places.
> We have been redeemed, to the original glory, that God had intended
> for us to have.
> We must live a holy lifestyle, to maintain our salvation, and when we
> do mess up, we need to repent, so it doesn't separate us from God.
> Sin separates us from God.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> seems to me this is part of the new politically correct talk we are 
>> hearing
>> in  our churches, softball it, not sin, just short comings, Jesus called 
>> it
>> sin, it is sin any way you look at it, we are sinful creatures and we 
>> need
>> Jesus. jeanette
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>
>>
>>> My grandmother caught me praying, like the average Baptist in my
>>> community, "Lord, forgive me of my sins."
>>> She said, "Shortcomings," is better.
>>> We have a new nature in Christ, so when we fall short, for the
>>> believer, it's shortcoming, not sin, because we didn't mean to do it.
>>> It's only sin, when it's willful.
>>> You have to be careful, not to allow things to go, without repenting of.
>>> We must live a repentant lifestyle.
>>> We must strive for Christian perfection, as Wesley taught.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, this is absolutely great!
>>>>
>>>> I especially like the following comments you made:
>>>>
>>>> You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're 
>>>> saved.
>>>>
>>>> God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
>>>> God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.
>>>>
>>>> Amen and amen!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 11:08 AM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>
>>>> First of all, (in regards to "Once Saved, Always Saved,") I'm writing
>>>> a pamphlet on it.
>>>> Here it is, for you to read.
>>>> The origins of "Predestination, and Election," began at the founding
>>>> of the Roman Catholic Church.
>>>> Two bishops debated this issue.
>>>> One was Augustine, and the other was Armenius.
>>>> Augustine believed that some were predestined to be saved, (the Elect
>>>> of God,) and some were born to be lost.
>>>> He became a saint, in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Greek
>>>> Orthodox Church calls him, "Augustine the Blessed."
>>>> Armenius believed, that God gave us a free will.
>>>> We can choose to respond to the Spirit's call, to be saved.
>>>> Salvation is for all.
>>>> Not all will be saved, because they choose not to respond to God's
>>>> call, on them.
>>>> In the 1700's, two men debated this same doctrine, in Protestant
>>>> Christianity.
>>>> John Calvin, and John Wesley.
>>>> John Calvin preached Predestination, and Election, but invented
>>>> "Unconditional Eternal Security," ("Once Saved, Always Saved.")
>>>> Wesley believed the Free Will message, and preached a fiery holiness
>>>> message.
>>>> I was raised in the Holiness movement, and would encourage you, to
>>>> read Wesley's writings, because they're scriptural.
>>>> Calvin's quotes are very hard to take in.
>>>> He was a friend of Charles Darwin, and he is noted to have said, that
>>>> God could have had a hand in evolution.
>>>> Here's the worst quote, of Calvin.
>>>> Every time I think of Predestination, and Once Saved, Always Saved, I
>>>> feel an uneasy feeling, because of his words.
>>>> "There will be babies in Hell, the size of the span of a man's hand."
>>>> In the 1950's, a man named William Marion Branham brought these
>>>> doctrines over into Pentecost.
>>>> He was a Baptist preacher, (Southern Baptist.)
>>>> His wife died, and God told him, where he needed to be.
>>>> He joined the United Pentecostal Church International, and was
>>>> baptized in Jesus name.
>>>> He taught the "Oneness," message, (as I do.)
>>>> Things changed, when he tried to unify the UPCI, and the AG.
>>>> It was during that mission, that he met evangelist, "Little," David
>>>> Walker.
>>>> After Little David's ministry ended, Branham started preaching,
>>>> (instead of prophesying.)
>>>> He said things like, he was the 7th angel of Revelation, and that he
>>>> was the last apostle.
>>>> He also taught, that if you didn't obey his message, you weren't saved.
>>>> He added 2 new doctrines to Calvin, and Augustine.
>>>> #1. Serpent Seed, (the serpent beguiled Eve, and from that encounter,
>>>> Cain was born.)
>>>> If you're a descendant of Cain, (Serpent's seed,) you cannot be saved.
>>>> For starters, the Bible says, that Adam knew Eve, and she bore Cain,
>>>> so Adam is Cain's earthly father, (not the serpent.)
>>>> Even if that logic was true, you'd understand that the Cainites,
>>>> (Cain's descendant,) are gone.
>>>> They were destroyed, in the flood.
>>>> #2. The Illegitimate Child doctrine is one, that I take issue with.
>>>> It states, that if you were born out of wedlock, you cannot be saved.
>>>> Well then, how am I saved?
>>>> I was born out of wedlock, yet I'm saved, because I obeyed Acts, 2:38.
>>>> I responded to God's call.
>>>> It would be sad to be in the shoes of people, who believe the logic of
>>>> Augustine, Calvin, and Branham.
>>>> It would be sad to live my life thinking I was saved, and then find
>>>> out, when it's too late, that I was never saved, and not even
>>>> predestined for salvation.
>>>> Nobody knows.
>>>> As a Free Will Message believer, I know I'm saved, because God
>>>> convicted me of my sins, I repented, was baptized, and received the
>>>> Holy Ghost.
>>>> I know I'm saved, and I'm on my way to Heaven.
>>>> Eternal security is conditional, (not unconditional.)
>>>> Once you're saved, there are things in God's word, you have to obey.
>>>> The law was not done away with, it was fulfilled.
>>>> There's a difference.
>>>> You have to live holy before God.
>>>> You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're 
>>>> saved.
>>>> I like what Bishop AO Holmes said.
>>>> "It's holiness, or Hell!"
>>>> You've got to live right.
>>>> God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
>>>> God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> how judemental, everyone slips from time to time, there no one perfect
>>>>> but
>>>>> Jesus, backsliders are folks who are struggling and need Christ,  as 
>>>>> we
>>>> all
>>>>> do, baptism is a public declaration of our comitment to Christ not a
>>>>> requirement of salvation.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:02 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Baptism alone doesn't save, but it's part of it.
>>>>>> See, 1 Peter, 3:21.
>>>>>> Backsliders, aren't saved.
>>>>>> They turned away from God, therefore,) they've lost their salvation.
>>>>>> See, 1 John, Chapter 4.
>>>>>> There's a verse that says, "He that comiteth sins, is of the devil.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/8/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Once you are saved--have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior--you
>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>> lose your salvation.  If you can lose it and then gain it back, it 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>> that are saving you.  Works cannot save you.  Jesus offers the free
>>>>>>> gift
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> salvation--to live with Him forever--if you only reach out and take
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> gift
>>>>>>> He offers.  Baptism can't save you.  Going to church every time the
>>>> doors
>>>>>>> are open won't save you.  Helping your neighbor down the street when 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> arises won't save you.
>>>>>>> And we all are sinners saved by grace because until the day we die 
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> continue to sin.  Those bad things we asked forgiveness of when we
>>>> prayed
>>>>>>> the sinner's prayer and accepted God's free gift have been wiped
>>>>>>> clean.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> from then on we must try not to do wrong but if we do, we must ask
>>>>>>> forgiveness.  For if we cannot ask for forgiveness how do we expect 
>>>>>>> to
>>>> be
>>>>>>> forgiven.
>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we 
>>>>>>> shall
>>>> pay
>>>>>>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>>> oppose
>>>>>>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>>>>>> liberty.--John
>>>>>>> F. Kennedy
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Rex Leslie Howard, Jr.
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:19 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm going to try and articulate something that is in my heart with
>>>> regard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> that "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I don't know if I will be
>>>>>>> successful in saying what I feel but here goes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine because 
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> represents to me a term that I've heard people use. I've heard 
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> refer
>>>>>>> to some as "carnal Christians." How on earth can one be a "carnal
>>>>>>> Christian." Either one is Christian and wanting to live within the
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> god, or one is not Christian and desires to live by the world's
>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have issue with the term "carnal Christian" just as I do with the
>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>> "born again Christian." One can't be a Christian unless one is born
>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>> so how can one be a "born again Christian?" Can one be a "born again
>>>>>>> Atheist?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not in my opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe it comes down to this: either we are saved or we are not. 
>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>> saved
>>>>>>> person doesn't want to lose his or her salvation so the point of 
>>>>>>> "once
>>>>>>> saved, always saved" is mute as far as I am concerned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this but I think the "once
>>>>>>> saved,
>>>>>>> always saved" doctrine is a cop-out for those who aren't really 
>>>>>>> saved.
>>>> It
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a term, I believe, adopted by those who want to confess themselves 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> Christians and yet be a part of the carnality of this world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am, in no way, saying that this is a description for Baptists. I
>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> that many Baptists don't subscribe to the "once saved, always saved"
>>>>>>> doctrine. I believe that the real issue is not whether salvation can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> lost
>>>>>>> but that one who is truly a Christian doesn't desire, at all, to 
>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> salvation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe that one can turn one's back on god, after knowing of 
>>>>>>> God's
>>>>>>> grace,
>>>>>>> love and mercy and, as a result, the sacrifice of Christ Jesus 
>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>> null
>>>>>>> and void in their lives. I believe that, at this point, God turns 
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> to a reprobate mind where they have no desire to know Him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember, I believe that one who is truly saved wants to please God
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> be conformed to this world. Will a righteous person fall? Yes the 
>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>> us this may happen, but a righteous person gets up again and seeks
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>> with a repentant and contrite heart. Does a righteous person want to
>>>>>>> fall?
>>>>>>> No, I don't believe so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did that make any sense at all?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:02 PM
>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you know that's what her particular Baptist church teaches? 
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> Baptist churches teach "Once saved always saved," RJ
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:54 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's what I was saying.
>>>>>>>> She needs Jesus.
>>>>>>>> The problem is, she thinks she's already saved.
>>>>>>>> They're in a Baptist church, that teaches, that if you were saved 
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> one point, you're always saved, no matter what you do.
>>>>>>>> That's why she said, on those jailhouse tapes, that she was reading
>>>>>>>> her Bible, and praying.
>>>>>>>> She needs to, but there's too much, that she's showing, that 
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>> show true Biblical Christianity.
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/8/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Wow! What an interesting and thought provoking question. I would
>>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>>> that there are many different feelings and viewpoints on this 
>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My opinion is that of course she should be forgiven. Jesus, who 
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> pure
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> sinless, asked for the forgiveness of those who persecuted and
>>>>>>>>> crucified
>>>>>>>>> him, therefore I believe that Casey should be forgiven. But, by
>>>>>>>>> whom?
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> don't have anything to forgive her for. She did not trespass 
>>>>>>>>> against
>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> although she has certainly conjured up moral outrage in my mind.
>>>> Should
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> repent for those feelings and ask for forgiveness? I believe that 
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> anger
>>>>>>>>> towards her is righteous anger. It does not consume me and I do 
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>> let
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> sun set on my anger towards her.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would this anger keep me from ministering to her if I had the
>>>>>>>>> opportunity?
>>>>>>>>> Certainly not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would certainly attempt to minister to her and perhaps she would
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> God's
>>>>>>>>> will and God's love in my ministering. If she did not and refused 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> hear
>>>>>>>>> the good news, then I could say that I did all that I could do to
>>>> reach
>>>>>>>>> her.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should those who are directly effected by her conduct exercise
>>>>>>>>> forgiveness
>>>>>>>>> to her. Yes I believe they should. Should they put themselves in
>>>>>>>>> positions
>>>>>>>>> where she might hurt them again or violate their trust or do
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> harmful to them? No.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Forgiveness does not mean that we put our trust in those who have
>>>>>>>>> violated
>>>>>>>>> that trust. It does, however, mean that we put our trust in God 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> every opportunity to show God's love, grace and mercy to those for
>>>> whom
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> have exercised forgiveness. In showing that love, we have done all
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can do and it is up to God to grow whatever seeds we have planted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 3:31 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should Casey Anthony be forgiven? Should we as Christians reach 
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> her?
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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