[Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

Wed Aug 10 15:03:49 UTC 2011

I do not view Joshua's posts as argumentative.
Nor is he being judgemental or trying to change minds.
I see it as educational.
I don't think he thinks he's better than anyone on this list either.
To make some of those assumptions, is probably unappealing to the eyes of 
God.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Barbara Hammel
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:13 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

In the Old Testament, Jesus hadn't come yet.  They had laws to follow.  We
do not live under the law any more.
There is only one unpardonable sin and that is to turn your back on God.  If
someone accepts Christ and doesn't do anything about it to change their
life, that's different--I think--than someone who becomes a denyer of
Christ.

The Bible also says, "do not Judge, lest you be judged."
I think this topic should be dropped soon because all you're doing is
arguing with us and trying to change our minds.  Reread Linda's e-mail
again.

Barbara

Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay
any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose
any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.--John
F. Kennedy
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:13 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony

In Jeremiah, it says, that God hates the backslidden condition of man.
The original King James says, "God hates the backslider."
That's strong!
They lose their salvation.
That's why David asked God to restore his salvation.
The KJV translators added, "The joy of," but the original Hebrew
doesn't say that.
BTW, backsliders go to Hell, if they don't return to God.
Also, if we fall into sin, it isn't the new man that sins.
We're allowing the old nature, (which is dead,) to resurrect itself.
We should strive to let the new man, (controlled by Christ,) to rule.
When the new man is in control, by us putting the flesh, (old man,)
under subjection, as Paul says, we can live above sin.
Here's a quote, from George Fox.
"It's not impossible for us to sin, but it is possible, for us not to sin."
Blessings, Joshua

On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> i couldn't have said it better myself, thanks, jeanette
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>
>
>> Still, whether you're saved or not, sin is sin.  If you lied before you
>> asked for God's forgiveness, you were a liar.  If you lie after you were
>> saved you still are a liar, just one who asks to be forgiven every time
>> you do it--and hopefully you're trying not to do it.  Our desire is to do
>> better once we become saved so that we can try our hardest to be "Jesus
>> with skin on" to people we share with.
>> Just because I'm saved doesn't mean I never willfully do anything against
>> God and His word.  Our sin nature is always with us because we live in 
>> the
>>
>> flesh.  God wishes for me to talk to Him every day and read His word 
>> every
>>
>> day, but if I choose to not do so, that pushes me away from Him.  Until I
>> come back and do the things I should I won't be very close to Him.  He
>> stays in the same place, I move toward or away from Him.  He is truly the
>> rock because His emotions don't play into His relationship with me.
>> Barbara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay
>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose
>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of 
>> liberty.--John
>>
>> F. Kennedy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:31 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>
>> No.
>> The greasy Grace, anything goes mess is in the politically correct
>> churches.
>> I believe in holiness, like Wesley preached it.
>> We are Christians, and as long as we stay in a repentant lifestyle,
>> the desire to sin is gone.
>> We are no longer sinners, when we are saved.
>> Jesus sees God's righteousness, now.
>> We as Christians are the righteousness of God, in Christ, and are
>> seated with him, in heavenly places.
>> We have been redeemed, to the original glory, that God had intended
>> for us to have.
>> We must live a holy lifestyle, to maintain our salvation, and when we
>> do mess up, we need to repent, so it doesn't separate us from God.
>> Sin separates us from God.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> seems to me this is part of the new politically correct talk we are
>>> hearing
>>> in  our churches, softball it, not sin, just short comings, Jesus called
>>> it
>>> sin, it is sin any way you look at it, we are sinful creatures and we
>>> need
>>> Jesus. jeanette
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>
>>>
>>>> My grandmother caught me praying, like the average Baptist in my
>>>> community, "Lord, forgive me of my sins."
>>>> She said, "Shortcomings," is better.
>>>> We have a new nature in Christ, so when we fall short, for the
>>>> believer, it's shortcoming, not sin, because we didn't mean to do it.
>>>> It's only sin, when it's willful.
>>>> You have to be careful, not to allow things to go, without repenting 
>>>> of.
>>>> We must live a repentant lifestyle.
>>>> We must strive for Christian perfection, as Wesley taught.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, this is absolutely great!
>>>>>
>>>>> I especially like the following comments you made:
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're
>>>>> saved.
>>>>>
>>>>> God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
>>>>> God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amen and amen!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 11:08 AM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, (in regards to "Once Saved, Always Saved,") I'm writing
>>>>> a pamphlet on it.
>>>>> Here it is, for you to read.
>>>>> The origins of "Predestination, and Election," began at the founding
>>>>> of the Roman Catholic Church.
>>>>> Two bishops debated this issue.
>>>>> One was Augustine, and the other was Armenius.
>>>>> Augustine believed that some were predestined to be saved, (the Elect
>>>>> of God,) and some were born to be lost.
>>>>> He became a saint, in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Greek
>>>>> Orthodox Church calls him, "Augustine the Blessed."
>>>>> Armenius believed, that God gave us a free will.
>>>>> We can choose to respond to the Spirit's call, to be saved.
>>>>> Salvation is for all.
>>>>> Not all will be saved, because they choose not to respond to God's
>>>>> call, on them.
>>>>> In the 1700's, two men debated this same doctrine, in Protestant
>>>>> Christianity.
>>>>> John Calvin, and John Wesley.
>>>>> John Calvin preached Predestination, and Election, but invented
>>>>> "Unconditional Eternal Security," ("Once Saved, Always Saved.")
>>>>> Wesley believed the Free Will message, and preached a fiery holiness
>>>>> message.
>>>>> I was raised in the Holiness movement, and would encourage you, to
>>>>> read Wesley's writings, because they're scriptural.
>>>>> Calvin's quotes are very hard to take in.
>>>>> He was a friend of Charles Darwin, and he is noted to have said, that
>>>>> God could have had a hand in evolution.
>>>>> Here's the worst quote, of Calvin.
>>>>> Every time I think of Predestination, and Once Saved, Always Saved, I
>>>>> feel an uneasy feeling, because of his words.
>>>>> "There will be babies in Hell, the size of the span of a man's hand."
>>>>> In the 1950's, a man named William Marion Branham brought these
>>>>> doctrines over into Pentecost.
>>>>> He was a Baptist preacher, (Southern Baptist.)
>>>>> His wife died, and God told him, where he needed to be.
>>>>> He joined the United Pentecostal Church International, and was
>>>>> baptized in Jesus name.
>>>>> He taught the "Oneness," message, (as I do.)
>>>>> Things changed, when he tried to unify the UPCI, and the AG.
>>>>> It was during that mission, that he met evangelist, "Little," David
>>>>> Walker.
>>>>> After Little David's ministry ended, Branham started preaching,
>>>>> (instead of prophesying.)
>>>>> He said things like, he was the 7th angel of Revelation, and that he
>>>>> was the last apostle.
>>>>> He also taught, that if you didn't obey his message, you weren't 
>>>>> saved.
>>>>> He added 2 new doctrines to Calvin, and Augustine.
>>>>> #1. Serpent Seed, (the serpent beguiled Eve, and from that encounter,
>>>>> Cain was born.)
>>>>> If you're a descendant of Cain, (Serpent's seed,) you cannot be saved.
>>>>> For starters, the Bible says, that Adam knew Eve, and she bore Cain,
>>>>> so Adam is Cain's earthly father, (not the serpent.)
>>>>> Even if that logic was true, you'd understand that the Cainites,
>>>>> (Cain's descendant,) are gone.
>>>>> They were destroyed, in the flood.
>>>>> #2. The Illegitimate Child doctrine is one, that I take issue with.
>>>>> It states, that if you were born out of wedlock, you cannot be saved.
>>>>> Well then, how am I saved?
>>>>> I was born out of wedlock, yet I'm saved, because I obeyed Acts, 2:38.
>>>>> I responded to God's call.
>>>>> It would be sad to be in the shoes of people, who believe the logic of
>>>>> Augustine, Calvin, and Branham.
>>>>> It would be sad to live my life thinking I was saved, and then find
>>>>> out, when it's too late, that I was never saved, and not even
>>>>> predestined for salvation.
>>>>> Nobody knows.
>>>>> As a Free Will Message believer, I know I'm saved, because God
>>>>> convicted me of my sins, I repented, was baptized, and received the
>>>>> Holy Ghost.
>>>>> I know I'm saved, and I'm on my way to Heaven.
>>>>> Eternal security is conditional, (not unconditional.)
>>>>> Once you're saved, there are things in God's word, you have to obey.
>>>>> The law was not done away with, it was fulfilled.
>>>>> There's a difference.
>>>>> You have to live holy before God.
>>>>> You don't do these things to be saved, you do them because you're
>>>>> saved.
>>>>> I like what Bishop AO Holmes said.
>>>>> "It's holiness, or Hell!"
>>>>> You've got to live right.
>>>>> God didn't save you in your sin, he saved you from your sin.
>>>>> God's grace isn't a license to sin, but it's power to overcome sin.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> how judemental, everyone slips from time to time, there no one 
>>>>>> perfect
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> Jesus, backsliders are folks who are struggling and need Christ,  as
>>>>>> we
>>>>> all
>>>>>> do, baptism is a public declaration of our comitment to Christ not a
>>>>>> requirement of salvation.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:02 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Baptism alone doesn't save, but it's part of it.
>>>>>>> See, 1 Peter, 3:21.
>>>>>>> Backsliders, aren't saved.
>>>>>>> They turned away from God, therefore,) they've lost their salvation.
>>>>>>> See, 1 John, Chapter 4.
>>>>>>> There's a verse that says, "He that comiteth sins, is of the devil.
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/8/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Once you are saved--have accepted Jesus as your lord and 
>>>>>>>> savior--you
>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>> lose your salvation.  If you can lose it and then gain it back, it
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>>> that are saving you.  Works cannot save you.  Jesus offers the free
>>>>>>>> gift
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> salvation--to live with Him forever--if you only reach out and take
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> gift
>>>>>>>> He offers.  Baptism can't save you.  Going to church every time the
>>>>> doors
>>>>>>>> are open won't save you.  Helping your neighbor down the street 
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>> arises won't save you.
>>>>>>>> And we all are sinners saved by grace because until the day we die
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> continue to sin.  Those bad things we asked forgiveness of when we
>>>>> prayed
>>>>>>>> the sinner's prayer and accepted God's free gift have been wiped
>>>>>>>> clean.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> from then on we must try not to do wrong but if we do, we must ask
>>>>>>>> forgiveness.  For if we cannot ask for forgiveness how do we expect
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> forgiven.
>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>>>>>>>> shall
>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>>>> oppose
>>>>>>>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>>>>>>> liberty.--John
>>>>>>>> F. Kennedy
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Rex Leslie Howard, Jr.
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:19 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm going to try and articulate something that is in my heart with
>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> that "once saved, always saved" doctrine. I don't know if I will be
>>>>>>>> successful in saying what I feel but here goes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine because
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> represents to me a term that I've heard people use. I've heard
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> refer
>>>>>>>> to some as "carnal Christians." How on earth can one be a "carnal
>>>>>>>> Christian." Either one is Christian and wanting to live within the
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> god, or one is not Christian and desires to live by the world's
>>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have issue with the term "carnal Christian" just as I do with the
>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>>> "born again Christian." One can't be a Christian unless one is born
>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>> so how can one be a "born again Christian?" Can one be a "born 
>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>> Atheist?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe it comes down to this: either we are saved or we are not.
>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>> saved
>>>>>>>> person doesn't want to lose his or her salvation so the point of
>>>>>>>> "once
>>>>>>>> saved, always saved" is mute as far as I am concerned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this but I think the "once
>>>>>>>> saved,
>>>>>>>> always saved" doctrine is a cop-out for those who aren't really
>>>>>>>> saved.
>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a term, I believe, adopted by those who want to confess themselves
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> Christians and yet be a part of the carnality of this world.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am, in no way, saying that this is a description for Baptists. I
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> that many Baptists don't subscribe to the "once saved, always 
>>>>>>>> saved"
>>>>>>>> doctrine. I believe that the real issue is not whether salvation 
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> lost
>>>>>>>> but that one who is truly a Christian doesn't desire, at all, to
>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> salvation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe that one can turn one's back on god, after knowing of
>>>>>>>> God's
>>>>>>>> grace,
>>>>>>>> love and mercy and, as a result, the sacrifice of Christ Jesus
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>> null
>>>>>>>> and void in their lives. I believe that, at this point, God turns
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> to a reprobate mind where they have no desire to know Him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Remember, I believe that one who is truly saved wants to please God
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> be conformed to this world. Will a righteous person fall? Yes the
>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>>> us this may happen, but a righteous person gets up again and seeks
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>> with a repentant and contrite heart. Does a righteous person want 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> fall?
>>>>>>>> No, I don't believe so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did that make any sense at all?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:02 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do you know that's what her particular Baptist church teaches?
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> Baptist churches teach "Once saved always saved," RJ
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:54 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's what I was saying.
>>>>>>>>> She needs Jesus.
>>>>>>>>> The problem is, she thinks she's already saved.
>>>>>>>>> They're in a Baptist church, that teaches, that if you were saved
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> one point, you're always saved, no matter what you do.
>>>>>>>>> That's why she said, on those jailhouse tapes, that she was 
>>>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>>>>> her Bible, and praying.
>>>>>>>>> She needs to, but there's too much, that she's showing, that
>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>> show true Biblical Christianity.
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8/8/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Wow! What an interesting and thought provoking question. I would
>>>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>>>> that there are many different feelings and viewpoints on this
>>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My opinion is that of course she should be forgiven. Jesus, who
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> pure
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> sinless, asked for the forgiveness of those who persecuted and
>>>>>>>>>> crucified
>>>>>>>>>> him, therefore I believe that Casey should be forgiven. But, by
>>>>>>>>>> whom?
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> don't have anything to forgive her for. She did not trespass
>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> although she has certainly conjured up moral outrage in my mind.
>>>>> Should
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> repent for those feelings and ask for forgiveness? I believe that
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> anger
>>>>>>>>>> towards her is righteous anger. It does not consume me and I do
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>> let
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> sun set on my anger towards her.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would this anger keep me from ministering to her if I had the
>>>>>>>>>> opportunity?
>>>>>>>>>> Certainly not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would certainly attempt to minister to her and perhaps she 
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> God's
>>>>>>>>>> will and God's love in my ministering. If she did not and refused
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hear
>>>>>>>>>> the good news, then I could say that I did all that I could do to
>>>>> reach
>>>>>>>>>> her.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Should those who are directly effected by her conduct exercise
>>>>>>>>>> forgiveness
>>>>>>>>>> to her. Yes I believe they should. Should they put themselves in
>>>>>>>>>> positions
>>>>>>>>>> where she might hurt them again or violate their trust or do
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> harmful to them? No.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Forgiveness does not mean that we put our trust in those who have
>>>>>>>>>> violated
>>>>>>>>>> that trust. It does, however, mean that we put our trust in God
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>> every opportunity to show God's love, grace and mercy to those 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>> whom
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> have exercised forgiveness. In showing that love, we have done 
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> can do and it is up to God to grow whatever seeds we have 
>>>>>>>>>> planted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 3:31 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Casey Anthony
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Should Casey Anthony be forgiven? Should we as Christians reach
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> her?
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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