[Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living

Sat Dec 3 00:10:21 UTC 2011

Joshua,
You have more than enough bible knowledge to be a preacher.
Perhaps you will. I think faith and interpreting the bible can be a 
controversial thing.
So, I'm not surprised at the disagreements on list here.
If you do unsubscribe, maybe you'll come back later.

I did find this scripture in Corinthians and some of the others you 
referenced.
I've learned more from you and a few others about the bible and faith from 
this list; I may not always agree with the ideas and your interpretation of 
the Bible, but I certainly try and be open and respectful.

I also feel the way to grow is to think and then apply it to one's life.
That does include opposing views. That is what I liked about some english 
and an ethics course I took. We had to argue a point and explain why we took 
the side that we did.

I will also learn about other religions, particularly the other two 
Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam.
Through that  I can see how we differ and agree in our religious views and 
better understand the conflict. Hearing opposing views and even those of 
other religions is a way to grow and really think about one's beliefs.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:39 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living

I studied this stuff for myself.
I'm tired of all of this bickering, so I'm definitely unsubscribing.
If you have any questions, write me offlist.
Thanks, Joshua

On 12/2/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> In First Timothy, it deals with Shame-facedness.
> Although it doesn't explain it, you can see what it means.
> Notice, women wear makeup, because they want men to lust after them,
> (putting themselves on the market.)
> They do this out of pride, (or at least most of them do.)
> So, shame-facedness for women, is no makeup.
> For men, it means no facial hair.
> Jesus had a beard, but when he was crucified, he humbled himself, and
> allowed the Roman soldiers to pluck it out.
> So, as an outward sign, of our inward humility, (because the beard
> represents pride,) we shave it.
> For, in Jewish culture, the beard represented pride, and it was a
> shame for a man not to have one.
> Now, how does this relate to our culture?
> The Bible says, "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.
> The beard, and long hair for men, was a sign of rebellion, in the
> 1960's, as a part of the hippy culture.
> We're supposed to be separate from the world, so that is why we shave
> our beards, and facial hair.
> Yes, I live by this.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 12/2/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>
>> Sometimes the bible is paternalistic; men telling women what to do.
>> So since you have covered women, what about men?
>>
>> What does it say about guys, and do you follow them? Do you not wear 
>> short
>> sleeves?
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:57 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living
>>
>> No, not at all!
>> Read Romans, 12:1.
>> How do we make our bodies living sacrifices unto God?
>> When God gets on the inside, (holiness,) because without holiness, we
>> can't see him, holiness will manifest on the outside.
>> People that don't like this kind of preaching, want to appease the flesh.
>> We aren't focusing on outward things, we're focusing on making our
>> bodies a living sacrifice, so that God can be glorified in us.
>> That's what holiness is all about.
>> Blessings, Joshua.
>>
>>
>> On 12/2/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> you know i read a devotional today from r.c. sproul talking about
>>> idolatry,
>>> i am thinking this whole obssession with hair andpants can be considered
>>> idolatry, because rather than worshiping and focusing on God folks are
>>> focused on outer things, partof legalism, also Charles Stanley's radio
>>> message i listend to this morning was about folks worshiping and 
>>> focusing
>>> on
>>> things rather than on Jesus, just a thought. jeanette
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 3:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul wrote it in 1 Corinthians, 11:1/15.
>>> He told the women not to let a razor touch their head.
>>> If a woman prays, or prophesies with her head uncovered, it's a shame,
>>> but if a man covers his head, it's also a shame.
>>> The covering, is the hair.
>>> Paul says, it's a shame for a man to have long hair, but a woman
>>> should have long hair.
>>> This is the diference between the sexes.
>>> Nowadays, people want to do away with the separation.
>>> Now, there's a company that you can Google for yourself, that is
>>> selling Men's dresses, and something they call a "Man Skirt."
>>> All of this started, when women started to do these things, to try to
>>> be like men, and get equality.
>>> I believe women should be paid the same, and vote, own property, and
>>> have all of the rights they have in America, (don't get me wrong,) but
>>> God has certain things in his word, concerning dress,and appearance,
>>> where men and women should remain separate.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 12/2/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Jeanette, it does talk about hair though. Someone told me that This 
>>>> book
>>>> was
>>>> a letter Paul wrote to the
>>>> church of Corith.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jeanette
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living
>>>>
>>>> paul was not one and you should always read scriptures in context,m ths
>>>> is
>>>> where we get all thisfalse doctrine when we take scriptures out of
>>>> context
>>>> and out of the times they were written in, legalism is great at that.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 9:54 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where Is Corinthians? New testament? I'll look up this scripture. But I
>>>> feel
>>>> I'll need to read all chapter 11 then. If not, scripture references are
>>>> often taken out of context.
>>>> This is basic. I know Jesus had 12 disciples. Was Paul one of them? I
>>>> know
>>>> Peter was one.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:59 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] hair, modesty and Christian living
>>>>
>>>> Actually:
>>>> you know that in 1 Corinthians 11, that it says that your hair is your
>>>> crowning glory.
>>>> The apostle Paul taught this.
>>>> BTW, Crystal's hair was as long as always, in 2008, when we heard her
>>>> at the Grand Ole Opry.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 12/1/11, Amy Ragain <belovedconsecrated2god at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>> you pointed out that Christal Gail didnt cut her hair but if you were 
>>>>> a
>>>>> true
>>>>> fan of her's you convinently forgot to mention the fact that her
>>>>> oridganal
>>>>> reason for not cutting it had nothing to do with relidgous reasons.
>>>>> she
>>>>> herself will even say that it was a prideful thing...her hair was
>>>>> viewed
>>>>> as
>>>>> her glory...and besides she eventually did cut it in the later
>>>>> days...is
>>>>> it
>>>>> still being modist to not cut your hair if you have so much pride in 
>>>>> it
>>>>> that
>>>>> you refused to cut it??
>>>>> and if we aren't supposed to cut our hair would you also tell us that
>>>>> we
>>>>> must cover our heads also in order to remain modest??  where do you
>>>>> draw
>>>>> the
>>>>> line???
>>>>> do you whare shorts in the summer time? some ppl would say you are
>>>>> being
>>>>> imodest for doing so...how bout short sleeved shirts??   as I said,
>>>>> where
>>>>> do
>>>>> you draw the line??
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 1, 2011, at 9:29 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> Interesting  what Joshua said in two threads. I’m combining them as I
>>>>>> think hair/modesty is a separate thread from the mennonites or Wesley
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>> I know the Bible teaches modesty but that can mean different things 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> different people. Also, most women follow cultural norms so we can
>>>>>> live
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a secular society and make a living. So even if women didn’t wear
>>>>>> pants,
>>>>>> they do in the 21th century because its business casual, more
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> than skirts or dresses, and of course much easier to put on and wash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can understand the makeup and not wearing pantss, but not cutting
>>>>>> hair
>>>>>> is impractical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone else found the hair reference and know any women who don’t cut
>>>>>> hair?
>>>>>> Joshua said,
>>>>>> “Women didn't ever cut their hair, until the 1920's.
>>>>>> This was when "Bobbed Hair," became popular.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and then said
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “The Church of England, was Calvinist, (reformed.)
>>>>>> The Wesleys taught holiness.
>>>>>> Women didn't cut their hair, wear makeup, or pants.
>>>>>> They still don't.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don’t know anyone following Wesley who doesn’t cut hair. Yes I 
>>>>>> agree
>>>>>> Wesly preached holiness and modesty. But not sure on the hair
>>>>>> specifically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me modesty means things like not showing too much, not wearing 
>>>>>> tank
>>>>>> tops, having nice manners, and being generous. I do wear some 
>>>>>> jewelry,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I don’t get too fancy; I don’t think I overdue it. just a solid
>>>>>> colored
>>>>>> bracelet or earrings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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