[Faith-talk] more truth

[Joshua Lester]

Brother Wheeler, it's more than just important, and valuable, it's
ESSENTIAL FOR SALVATION.
John, 3:5 and first Peter, 3:21, tells us this.
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/6/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
> I wasn't saying baptism isn't important or valuable. Just that without
> faith, it is ineffectual. I think even you can agree with that.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 7:17 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>
> You're right, that faith saves us, but in James, you read that faith without
> works, (corresponding action,) is dead.
> Mark 16:16, says, that he that believeth, and is baptized, shall be saved.
> Notice Jesus doesn't stop at believing, he put a conjunction, (and,) is
> baptized.
> The, "and," says it all.
> You have to have the faith, but you must be obedient, or your confession is
> just empty words.
> Faith without works is dead.
> Repent, (there's your belief, faith, or whatever you want to call it,) and
> be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, (there's
> the obedience,) and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 6/6/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> It is faith that saves, not baptism. The water doesn't save us, but
>> accepting Christs' sacrifice upon the cross does. That is why Peter
>> (in
>> Acts) says "Repent and be baptized."
>>
>> If I was baptized, but didn't first repent, then my baptism would be
>> of no use.
>>
>> Here's what the Seventh-day Adventist church, which I recently joined,
>> says about baptism:
>> 15. Baptism:
>> By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus
>> Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in
>> newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour,
>> become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism
>> is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and
>> our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is
>> contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of
>> repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and
> acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col.
>> 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)
>>
>> This was taken from the following web page:
>> http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 6:48 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>
>> That was before the day of Pentecost.
>> After Pentecost, (the birth of the church,) this Acts 2:38, plan was
>> instated, and will remain the plan of salvation, until the rapture of
>> the church.
>> Also, remember what Jesus told Nicodemus, in John 3:5?
>> Also, read Romans, 6:4.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/6/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> so how do you explain the guy on the cross who Jesus told today you
>>> will be with me in paradise?  he was not baptized before he died
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 3:22 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes you do.
>>>> 1 Peter, 3:21 says so.
>>>> Acts, 2:38, says so.
>>>> Also, why did Paul rebaptize the believers, in Acts, 19:5, if it
>>>> didn't matter how you were baptized?
>>>> Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
>>>> It's like this.
>>>> I'm a brother, a son, and a musician.
>>>> Brother, son and musician, are not my name, they just describe the
>>>> different roles I have.
>>>> God is the same way.
>>>> Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, etc,
>>>> are roles, or titles, but Jesus is the name.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 6/5/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> You do not have to be baptized to be saved.
>>>>> Baptism is just you way of showing the world that you've been
>>>>> washed by the blood and are a new creature.
>>>>> If you accep Christ as savior and never get baptized, you're not
>>>>> going to hell.
>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>>>>> shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support
>>>>> any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the
>>>>> success of liberty.--John F. Kennedy -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:51 AM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, here's the deal.
>>>>> The blood of Jesus remits the sin.
>>>>> Notice, that remission doesn't come, until a person is baptized in
>>>>> Jesus's name, (Acts, 2:38.) If the blood isn't applied noone can
>>>>> make Heaven.
>>>>> That's what the Bible says.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/5/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are a good missionary for Jesus' attitudes. As I say on my
>>>>>> website and in my signature, Peace, Love, Service. Let us begin
>>>>>> with allo groups who claim to be Christian.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let us also not put limits on God's  mercy. Only He knows who will
>>>>>> eventually end up in hell. Judge not, that you will not be judged.
>>>>>> Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:50:48AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>   Ok, but the way we procelyte makes all the difference in the world.
>>>>>>> If we go in to it saying "I am right!  I am right and you're
>>>>>>> wrong because your doctrine is false!", we're not really going to
>>>>>>> win anyone over, are we?  I think a better way to do it, if
>>>>>>> you're going to procelyte, is to say "I see all the good you have
> now.
>>>>>>> Come talk to me and we can add to it."  And, just because you
>>>>>>> don't "win everyone over" doesn't mean you can't work with those
>>>>>>> people who don't accept your doctrine to improve the world.  Some
>>>>>>> of my richest friendships are with those who disagree with my
>>>>>>> particular understanding of scripture.
>>>>>>>   And, Joshua, you're right.  I don't like it either when people
>>>>>>> call me "non-Christian", condemn me to hell, say I'm part of a
>>>>>>> "Satanic cult because I don't believe in the trinity, the list
>>>>>>> goes on and on forever what people can say.  I daresay we've
>>>>>>> probably had some of the same insults thrown at us...cult!  Hericy!
>> Apostate!  Non-Christian!
>>>>>>> Pagan!  (or, in your case, probably "monolatraist!"  It's not
>>>>>>> fair, it's not right, it hurts.  But Christ says love your
>>>>>>> enemies, turn the other cheak, and do unto others as you would
>>>>>>> have
>> them do unto you.
>>>>>>> I'd certainly hope people of all faiths would treat me with the
>>>>>>> love and respect and dignity I feel my religion deserves, I'm
>>>>>>> sure you feel the same, so shouldn't we treat all others the same
>>>>>>> way we'd hope they would treat us?
>>>>>>>   Warmly,
>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/5/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> > I stated my beliefs. Interreligious doalog does not mean
>>>>>>> > concealing one's own beloiefs but respecting and trying to
>>>>>>> > understand the beliefs of others.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > John
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:05:02AM -0500, Nikki wrote:
>>>>>>> >>    John,
>>>>>>> >> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
>>>>>>> >> That's just what I see happening.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >> From: John J. Boyer
>>>>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
>>>>>>> >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Kirt,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of
>>>>>>> >> the Bible and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't
>>>>>>> >> make it into the New Testament is likely to be the
>>>>>>> >> interpretation of the Church Fathers.
>>>>>>> >> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are,
>>>>>>> >> and they had resources that we don't.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group
>>>>>>> >> that has adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church
>>>>>>> >> Fathers. There has never been a Great Apostasy in which the
>>>>>>> >> whole Church abandoned the teachings. Therefore there cannot
>>>>>>> >> be a Restoration. Likewise, there was never a Reformation.
>>>>>>> >> However, the Church did learn from the latter to clean up its
>>>>>>> >> own house.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice
>>>>>>> >> attempt at interreligious dialog.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>>>>> >> John
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >John,
>>>>>>> >> >  Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn
>>>>>>> >> >from  each other and have a constructive discussion.  I think
>>>>>>> >> >it's ok to have a civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn
>>>>>>> >> >into an argument...am I making any sense?  It's like saying
>>>>>>> >> >"I respect you enough to tell you I disagree with you on this
>>>>>>> >> >issue, but look at all this common ground we share!"  In
>>>>>>> >> >other words, disagree agreeably.
>>>>>>> >> >  Blessings,
>>>>>>> >> >Kirt
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >> Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The
>>>>>>> >> >> objective should be to build tolerance, trust and
>>>>>>> >> >> understanding. There is a saying "Argue with no true
>>>>>>> >> >> believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
>>>>>>> >> >> messages in this thread.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>>>>> >> >> John
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion
>>>>>>> >> >>> comparing different beliefs and asking others about why
>>>>>>> >> >>> they believed what they did.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an
>>>>>>> >> >>> argument that someone must win about whose beliefs are
>>>>>>> >> >>> correct.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer
>>>>>>> >> >>> thing instead of trying to convert.  Whether you believe
>>>>>>> >> >>> in the Trinity or that the three are one is a silly point
>>>>>>> >> >>> to argue over as long as we all know that one must accept
>>>>>>> >> >>> Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and ask
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
>>>>>>> >> >>> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a
>>>>>>> >> >>> mid-tribulation, pre-tribulation or post-tribulation
>>>>>>> >> >>> subscriber.
>>>>>>> >> >>> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as
>>>>>>> >> >>> Lord and Savior of your life, the rest of these debates is
>>>>>>> >> >>> just the devil trying to separate us.  And a house divided
>>>>>>> >> >>> against itself cannot stand.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Barbara
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill,
>>>>>>> >> >>> that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
>>>>>>> >> >>> hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to
>>>>>>> >> >>> assure the survival and the success of liberty.--John F.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Kennedy _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >> >o
>>>>>>> >> >hn%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> --
>>>>>>> >> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital
>>>>>>> >> >> Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>> >> >> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >> >i
>>>>>>> >> >rt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >> >hn%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital Ministry,
>>>>>>> >> Inc.
>>>>>>> >> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>> >> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches Digital Ministry,
>>>>>>> > Inc.
>>>>>>> > http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>> > Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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