[Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to thePoston Claude Ely from Joshua

Mon Nov 28 02:37:02 UTC 2011

Yes, shaped note use in Sacred Harp singing was first used, in all places, 
Vermont.  From what some up there have told me, there are a few 
congregations in the Green Mountain State that still use it.  Ever heard 
black Sacred Harp singers? The undersigned has an Okeh recording from 1932 
featuring the Middle Georgia Singing Convention Number One.  It is sure a 
unique sound, but don't know how to get it to you unless, of course, you may 
be a member of one of the following Christian audio chat sites: The 
Interactive Christian Community or ICC and Seasons of Refreshing.  Maybe in 
a later post will tell you about both groups, but in separate messages. 
Suffice it to say that they are both dynamic and lively groups.  Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to 
thePoston Claude Ely from Joshua

Hi,
I found out that shaped note singing came from the north and migrated down
south and was more popular in southern churches. So when we think of shaped
note, we think of southern gospel and southern groups doing it; when I
researched many groups came up in the south such as the Wiregrass Sacred
Harp singers in Alabama.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:20 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to thePost
on Claude Ely from Joshua

Most Sacred Harp singing is done in Shaped Note style.
Southern Gospel was the only Shaped note style, but shaped notes have
disappeared, lately.
This style came into Southern Gospel, through the Church of God,
(Cleveland, TN,) (a Pentecostal group.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 11/27/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Because of the strong influence on the Christian life of the South by the
> Baptists, most probably it was that denomination, but not necessarily
> Southern Baptists as there are quite a few faith communities that use the
> name Baptist.  At least that's what I heard.  Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to 
> thePost
> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>
>
> So Joshua, are you saying that some Quaker groups sang Sacred Harp music?
> Also, is all Sacred Harp music in the shape note form? I thought I heard
> Sacred harp that was not Sacred Harp sometime.
> Maybe shaped notes can be part of Sacred Harp, but does not have to be.
> What types of music has shaped note singing? I am not sure its around in
> modern churches, except maybe some traditional southern churches. When I
> studied music history, my dad did not know what shaped note music meant 
> and
> he is from the south. We are white though; and perhaps it’s a black church
> thing.
> Since one part  is singing the scale of Doe, ray, me etc, its obvious when
> one hears shaped note singing. The other people sing the words.
>
> Its my understanding that Sacred Harp singing is 1. With no instruments; 
> not
> sure how to spell the word for that. 2. It uses the Sacred Harp Hymnal. 3.
> The leader of the group is in the center. and 4. The singing sounds
> country-like with a nazal-like voice.
> It was common in southern churches, but I don't know what denomination.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:26 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from 
> Joshua
>
> The Quakers vary from group to group.
> Our group was affiliated with the Central Yearly Meeting of Friends,
> out of West Field, Indiana.
> We used the same hymnal as the Church of the Nazarine.
> We, in the United Pentecostal Church International use a hymnal
> called, "Sing Unto the Lord," which is not, the Sacred Harp.
> In the Appelachian Mountain area, they sang Sacred Harp, and Shaped
> Note style music.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> Am I correct that quakers song sacred harp music?
>> Are you also saying that your church uses the Sacred Harp hymnal?
>> I thought Pentecostals used their own hymnal. Perhaps, though its just
>> your
>> preference to  like
>> older songs originating in other religious sects.
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>> Joshua
>>
>> We don't do Sacred Harp conventions, or "All Day Singing Schools,"
>> anymore.
>> Some of your Oneness Pentecostals, (like myself,) still sing the older
>> songs, and use the hymnal.
>> We have a diferent hymnal, than the other groups.
>> Our hymns aren't the songs of the 17, and 1800's.
>> Our hymns are Southern Gospel, from Dad Speer, Albert E Brumley, etc.
>> This, and the Black Gospel choir music is what I'd prefer, for Sunday
>> Morning worship service.
>> The "711" songs have got to go!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Paul,
>>> Thanks for telling us that the Loc issued religious  albums to the
>>> public.
>>> How many songs on this album?
>>> I might see if I can get some. Unfortunately, the general public isn't
>>> too
>>> interested in old fashioned gospel, particularly with no instruments
>>> backing
>>> the singers, so you can't find these old styles of music at Christian
>>> music
>>> stores. Ever noticed that Christian music sold at stores is often a 
>>> group
>>> of
>>> singers with instruments; mostly c contemporary music. Its good music
>>> IMO;
>>>
>>> I
>>> like the Wow worship cds, but I like old fashioned music too.
>>> This might explain why they did not convert Lps and cassettes to modern
>>> day
>>> Cds.
>>>
>>> I certainly heard of Sacred Harp singing; It is pretty.
>>>
>>> It would be neat to hear a hymn done by lining.
>>> I've heard of that and think I first heard of that old technique in 
>>> music
>>> class. It’s a technique, that to my knowledge, is not practiced in main
>>> line
>>> churches, and non denominational churches usually read lyrics from a
>>> screen
>>> rather than a hymnal.
>>> Now I'm real curious about this record! I think lining would be a great
>>> way
>>> to include everyone, not just those who can read and follow a hymnal.
>>> Its not just blind people that cannot read it, its others with learning
>>> disabilities or those who cannot hold a book open and read fast enough 
>>> to
>>> sing for various reasons. Lining was a practice for a long time. It was
>>> used
>>> because not everyone could read a hymnal or if the church did not have a
>>> hymnal.
>>> I've seen Sacred Harp singing on Youtube.
>>> I wonder if southerners still sing and have sacred harp conventions?
>>>
>>> I'll make note of the other albums.
>>>
>>> Take care.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:50 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>> Joshua
>>>
>>> Well, I can't rightly tell you about everything on the LP, but here's a
>>> sample.  There is an example of lining in which the song leader recites
>>> the
>>> first line of a hymn, in this case "Hosanna, Jesus Reigns," and then the
>>> congregation sings it.  Then the song leader recites the second line and
>>> then the congregation sings that also, and so on until the song is
>>> finished.
>>> This recording was originally made by Elder LaSeer (not sure of 
>>> spelling)
>>> in
>>> a Primitive Baptist Church somewhere in western North Carolina in 1961.
>>> There is also another Primitive Baptist song entitled "The Lord Will
>>> Provide," recorded by Elder Bradley in Lone Pine KY in 1971.  Judging by
>>> the
>>> acoustics it sounds like it might have been recorded in a tent or an
>>> outdoor
>>> venue.  Then there is a song sung by 12 bearded Old Order Amish people
>>> from
>>> Colona, Iowa near Cedar Rapids, originally recorded in 1943 by Alton S.
>>> Bach
>>> and Addison Bach.  That's just a sample.
>>>
>>> As to other religious albums (when the LOC issued them to the general
>>> public), there is one entitled "Children of the Heavenly King: Religious
>>> Expressions of the Central Blue Ridge," originally issued in 1981 and
>>> featuring Primitive Baptist and other rural expressions of one's
>>> Christianity in areas of southwestern Virginia and northwestern North
>>> Carolina, encompassing the Virginia counties of Carrol, Grayson and 
>>> Floyd
>>> and, in North Carolina, Ash and Wilts.  There is also an album of 
>>> Alabama
>>> Sacred Harp Singing, which has nothing to do with the stringed 
>>> instrument
>>> but is a unique style of a capella singing.  This was one of the early
>>> collections of the late Alan Lomax, originally recorded in Birmingham in
>>> August 1942 during the 37th Alabama Sacred Harp Singing Convention. 
>>> Ditto
>>> for the song by Brother Claude Ely, although they used guitars and at
>>> least
>>> one mandolin.  For those of you who might be members of a chat community
>>> called Out of Sight, have a working microphone and soundcard, would be
>>> delighted to go into one of the audio chatrooms over there during the 
>>> day
>>> when nothing is going on.  Just let me know in a reasonable amount of
>>> time,
>>> and would be more than glad to let you hear this admittedly unique and
>>> little-known form of singing.  Your Christian brother, Paul
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>> Joshua
>>>
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>> I haven't heard of this album or singer.
>>>> I didn't know the Library of congress issued religious music! I know
>>>> they
>>>> did folk tunes and some by the shakers and African American spirituals,
>>>> but I didn't know about the religious music. Of course some folk tunes
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> spirituals are somewhat religious.
>>>> What else is on "Religious songs, congregational and ceremonial" album?
>>>> Is
>>>>
>>>> it just
>>>> Claude's congregation? Based on the title of the song, I assume its
>>>> music
>>>> is by a harp, and other songs probably instrumental; after all back 
>>>> then
>>>> they did not have the fancy base drums, electric guitars, and sound
>>>> mixing
>>>>
>>>> we do for todays Christian bands.
>>>>
>>>> Older songs are only on old fashioned technology, i.e. cassette or
>>>> records.
>>>> Do you know if the library of congress still has this album? Maybe we
>>>> can
>>>> buy a copy from them?
>>>> I'll also check the internet for any songs by this individual.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:58 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>> Well, Joshua, the only way I can get it to you, along with the other
>>>> selections from that album, is by snail mail and via cassette as I 
>>>> don't
>>>> have any way of burning a CD from the album itself.  If you would give
>>>> me
>>>> your address off list, will make you a copy and send it to you, albeit
>>>> via
>>>> snail mail, and I'm sure we know how slow that can be.  But, as I've
>>>> always
>>>> heard it said, better that way than not at all.  Paul
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the information!
>>>>> I'm interested in this recording.
>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/26/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> If anyone here has a copy of the album "Religious Songs,
>>>>>> Congregational
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Ceremonial," issued by the Library of Congress as part of their
>>>>>> bicentennial
>>>>>> celebration in 1976, Claude Ely's congregation is featured on the 
>>>>>> song
>>>>>> "Little David, Play On Your Harp." The undersigned has that album.
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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