[Faith-talk] Shape note singing

Mon Nov 28 20:04:25 UTC 2011

Thanks Paul for the link. I have been listening to them for a long
time now, and their talent and personality is really second-to-none.
Tune in all day Sunday for great preaching and southern gospel music.
Here's the link for the station that opens up in Winamp or WMP.
http://208.43.60.70/WRVK-AM?MSWMEXT=.asf

On 11/28/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> For Church of Christ singing and preaching, tune into
> http://www.wrvk1460.com at 8 a.m. eastern time for the Providence Church of
> Christ.  WRVK is located in Mount Vernon/Renfro Valley KY about 50 miles
> south of Lexington.  Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Kwaak" <kwaakproductions at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Shape note singing
>
>
> Ashley:
>
> The Church Of Christ, not to be confused with the Church Of Jesus
> Christ Of Latter-day Saints, is a mostly-rural denomination. Aside
> from the no-instrument rule, they teach that baptism is absolutely
> necessary for salvation, and they are not shouty. If you want to hear
> one of their radio shows to get a feel for it, listen Sunday morning
> at 7:30 EST, 6:30 CST, for the Southside Church Of Christ on WAIN-FM
> in Columbia, KY. http://out1.cmn.icy.abacast.com/wain-wainfm-64
>
> On 11/28/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> The Bible certainly references instruments.
>> I love singing with instruments and cannot imagine worship without it;
>> without it is nice ocasionally though.
>>
>> Also, you might know of a church who doesn't do a given practice. But all
>> churches are different, even among denominations. So Debbie's church,
>> Church
>> of Christ may be noninstrumental, and the one you know may do something
>> quite different.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:25 AM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Shape note singing
>>
>> The Church of Christ, here in my community doesn't do it.
>> I'm a Pentecostal, so I disagree with most of the teachings in that
>> denomination.
>> I'm not trying to force my views, but I believe, that if instruments
>> are in heaven (se Revelation, where everyone has a golden harp,) that
>> we're to have instruments in the church.
>> The worship of the church, is to mirror, the worship in Heaven.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 11/28/11, Debbie Brown <63characters at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Shape note singing is still done in the nonistrumental Churches of
>>> Christ.
>>> Many of the older people know nothing else.  You can get computer
>>> programs
>>> that generate shape notes, but I forget the name of the one that some of
>>> our
>>> song leaders used.
>>>
>>> the good thing about that kind of music is that singing is for everyone.
>>> It
>>> is a command in the Bible to sing, and it is not meant for just a
>>> professional choir, but for everyone.  I find people mumbling along with
>>> an
>>> organ not very inspiring.
>>>
>>> Debbie Brown
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>>> thePoston Claude Ely from Joshua
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I found out that shaped note singing came from the north and migrated
>>> down
>>> south and was more popular in southern churches. So when we think of
>>> shaped
>>> note, we think of southern gospel and southern groups doing it; when I
>>> researched many groups came up in the south such as the Wiregrass Sacred
>>> Harp singers in Alabama.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:20 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>>> thePost
>>> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>>>
>>> Most Sacred Harp singing is done in Shaped Note style.
>>> Southern Gospel was the only Shaped note style, but shaped notes have
>>> disappeared, lately.
>>> This style came into Southern Gospel, through the Church of God,
>>> (Cleveland, TN,) (a Pentecostal group.)
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 11/27/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Because of the strong influence on the Christian life of the South by
>>>> the
>>>> Baptists, most probably it was that denomination, but not necessarily
>>>> Southern Baptists as there are quite a few faith communities that use
>>>> the
>>>> name Baptist.  At least that's what I heard.  Paul
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:04 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>>>> thePost
>>>> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So Joshua, are you saying that some Quaker groups sang Sacred Harp
>>>> music?
>>>> Also, is all Sacred Harp music in the shape note form? I thought I heard
>>>> Sacred harp that was not Sacred Harp sometime.
>>>> Maybe shaped notes can be part of Sacred Harp, but does not have to be.
>>>> What types of music has shaped note singing? I am not sure its around in
>>>> modern churches, except maybe some traditional southern churches. When I
>>>> studied music history, my dad did not know what shaped note music meant
>>>> and
>>>> he is from the south. We are white though; and perhaps it’s a black
>>>> church
>>>> thing.
>>>> Since one part  is singing the scale of Doe, ray, me etc, its obvious
>>>> when
>>>> one hears shaped note singing. The other people sing the words.
>>>>
>>>> Its my understanding that Sacred Harp singing is 1. With no instruments;
>>>> not
>>>> sure how to spell the word for that. 2. It uses the Sacred Harp Hymnal.
>>>> 3.
>>>> The leader of the group is in the center. and 4. The singing sounds
>>>> country-like with a nazal-like voice.
>>>> It was common in southern churches, but I don't know what denomination.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:26 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>> The Quakers vary from group to group.
>>>> Our group was affiliated with the Central Yearly Meeting of Friends,
>>>> out of West Field, Indiana.
>>>> We used the same hymnal as the Church of the Nazarine.
>>>> We, in the United Pentecostal Church International use a hymnal
>>>> called, "Sing Unto the Lord," which is not, the Sacred Harp.
>>>> In the Appelachian Mountain area, they sang Sacred Harp, and Shaped
>>>> Note style music.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>> Am I correct that quakers song sacred harp music?
>>>>> Are you also saying that your church uses the Sacred Harp hymnal?
>>>>> I thought Pentecostals used their own hymnal. Perhaps, though its just
>>>>> your
>>>>> preference to  like
>>>>> older songs originating in other religious sects.
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't do Sacred Harp conventions, or "All Day Singing Schools,"
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>> Some of your Oneness Pentecostals, (like myself,) still sing the older
>>>>> songs, and use the hymnal.
>>>>> We have a diferent hymnal, than the other groups.
>>>>> Our hymns aren't the songs of the 17, and 1800's.
>>>>> Our hymns are Southern Gospel, from Dad Speer, Albert E Brumley, etc.
>>>>> This, and the Black Gospel choir music is what I'd prefer, for Sunday
>>>>> Morning worship service.
>>>>> The "711" songs have got to go!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>> Thanks for telling us that the Loc issued religious  albums to the
>>>>>> public.
>>>>>> How many songs on this album?
>>>>>> I might see if I can get some. Unfortunately, the general public isn't
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> interested in old fashioned gospel, particularly with no instruments
>>>>>> backing
>>>>>> the singers, so you can't find these old styles of music at Christian
>>>>>> music
>>>>>> stores. Ever noticed that Christian music sold at stores is often a
>>>>>> group
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> singers with instruments; mostly c contemporary music. Its good music
>>>>>> IMO;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> like the Wow worship cds, but I like old fashioned music too.
>>>>>> This might explain why they did not convert Lps and cassettes to
>>>>>> modern
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> Cds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly heard of Sacred Harp singing; It is pretty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be neat to hear a hymn done by lining.
>>>>>> I've heard of that and think I first heard of that old technique in
>>>>>> music
>>>>>> class. It’s a technique, that to my knowledge, is not practiced in
>>>>>> main
>>>>>> line
>>>>>> churches, and non denominational churches usually read lyrics from a
>>>>>> screen
>>>>>> rather than a hymnal.
>>>>>> Now I'm real curious about this record! I think lining would be a
>>>>>> great
>>>>>> way
>>>>>> to include everyone, not just those who can read and follow a hymnal.
>>>>>> Its not just blind people that cannot read it, its others with
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> disabilities or those who cannot hold a book open and read fast enough
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> sing for various reasons. Lining was a practice for a long time. It
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> because not everyone could read a hymnal or if the church did not have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> hymnal.
>>>>>> I've seen Sacred Harp singing on Youtube.
>>>>>> I wonder if southerners still sing and have sacred harp conventions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll make note of the other albums.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care.
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Paul
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:50 PM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I can't rightly tell you about everything on the LP, but here's
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> sample.  There is an example of lining in which the song leader
>>>>>> recites
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> first line of a hymn, in this case "Hosanna, Jesus Reigns," and then
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> congregation sings it.  Then the song leader recites the second line
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then the congregation sings that also, and so on until the song is
>>>>>> finished.
>>>>>> This recording was originally made by Elder LaSeer (not sure of
>>>>>> spelling)
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a Primitive Baptist Church somewhere in western North Carolina in
>>>>>> 1961.
>>>>>> There is also another Primitive Baptist song entitled "The Lord Will
>>>>>> Provide," recorded by Elder Bradley in Lone Pine KY in 1971.  Judging
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> acoustics it sounds like it might have been recorded in a tent or an
>>>>>> outdoor
>>>>>> venue.  Then there is a song sung by 12 bearded Old Order Amish people
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Colona, Iowa near Cedar Rapids, originally recorded in 1943 by Alton
>>>>>> S.
>>>>>> Bach
>>>>>> and Addison Bach.  That's just a sample.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to other religious albums (when the LOC issued them to the general
>>>>>> public), there is one entitled "Children of the Heavenly King:
>>>>>> Religious
>>>>>> Expressions of the Central Blue Ridge," originally issued in 1981 and
>>>>>> featuring Primitive Baptist and other rural expressions of one's
>>>>>> Christianity in areas of southwestern Virginia and northwestern North
>>>>>> Carolina, encompassing the Virginia counties of Carrol, Grayson and
>>>>>> Floyd
>>>>>> and, in North Carolina, Ash and Wilts.  There is also an album of
>>>>>> Alabama
>>>>>> Sacred Harp Singing, which has nothing to do with the stringed
>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>> but is a unique style of a capella singing.  This was one of the early
>>>>>> collections of the late Alan Lomax, originally recorded in Birmingham
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> August 1942 during the 37th Alabama Sacred Harp Singing Convention.
>>>>>> Ditto
>>>>>> for the song by Brother Claude Ely, although they used guitars and at
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> one mandolin.  For those of you who might be members of a chat
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> called Out of Sight, have a working microphone and soundcard, would be
>>>>>> delighted to go into one of the audio chatrooms over there during the
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> when nothing is going on.  Just let me know in a reasonable amount of
>>>>>> time,
>>>>>> and would be more than glad to let you hear this admittedly unique and
>>>>>> little-known form of singing.  Your Christian brother, Paul
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:19 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>>> I haven't heard of this album or singer.
>>>>>>> I didn't know the Library of congress issued religious music! I know
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> did folk tunes and some by the shakers and African American
>>>>>>> spirituals,
>>>>>>> but I didn't know about the religious music. Of course some folk
>>>>>>> tunes
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> spirituals are somewhat religious.
>>>>>>> What else is on "Religious songs, congregational and ceremonial"
>>>>>>> album?
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it just
>>>>>>> Claude's congregation? Based on the title of the song, I assume its
>>>>>>> music
>>>>>>> is by a harp, and other songs probably instrumental; after all back
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> they did not have the fancy base drums, electric guitars, and sound
>>>>>>> mixing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we do for todays Christian bands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Older songs are only on old fashioned technology, i.e. cassette or
>>>>>>> records.
>>>>>>> Do you know if the library of congress still has this album? Maybe we
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> buy a copy from them?
>>>>>>> I'll also check the internet for any songs by this individual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Paul
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:58 PM
>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, Joshua, the only way I can get it to you, along with the other
>>>>>>> selections from that album, is by snail mail and via cassette as I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> have any way of burning a CD from the album itself.  If you would
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> your address off list, will make you a copy and send it to you,
>>>>>>> albeit
>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>> snail mail, and I'm sure we know how slow that can be.  But, as I've
>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>> heard it said, better that way than not at all.  Paul
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:36 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the information!
>>>>>>>> I'm interested in this recording.
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/26/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If anyone here has a copy of the album "Religious Songs,
>>>>>>>>> Congregational
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Ceremonial," issued by the Library of Congress as part of their
>>>>>>>>> bicentennial
>>>>>>>>> celebration in 1976, Claude Ely's congregation is featured on the
>>>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>>>> "Little David, Play On Your Harp." The undersigned has that album.
>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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