[Faith-talk] The blind and church

Mon Apr 9 11:18:27 UTC 2012

Greg,
Thank you ever so much for your supportive and kind words.
It would appear from Ashley's message she has little to no knowledge about
guide Dog teams.
Once again Thank You

B A Guerrero and Seeing Eye Dog Godiva
guerrero.avila at sbcglobal.net 

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Greg Aikens
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:59 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] The blind and church

And what would she do with her dog while she was taking communion?  Tie it
to the pew? Ask a stranger to hold the dog's leash while she goes to the
front?  These are extremely impractical suggestions in a new environment
like we are discussing.  While there may be a few guide dogs who are not
well behaved, as a general rule they are clean, quiet, and keep out of the
way.  If space is really that much of an issue, the person with the dog
could take communion on one end of the altar so the dog isn't taking up
space for another person.  If people will accept dogs in restaurants, I
think its completely reasonable to expect churches to accept them at the
communion table with their handlers.  

The most disappointing part of the story is that they would make such a
judgement without knowing this woman or her dog.  

Sorry if this was a little heated, but its frustrating to hear fellow blind
people supporting the denial of access to a guide dog.  

-Greg

On Apr 8, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:

> well, I think she should just look for a church that accepts her. As for
the communion thing. I really don't agree with her.
> She should walk up to the communion table with  a cane or sighted guide.
Frankly,  I would not, not want a dog next to me while I took communion!
Why? They can smell and take up room.
> It sounds inconvenient to take a dog up to the table; come on, its narrow,
people need to kneel. I would not want a dog's nose in my face or a tail in
my way as I kneeled for this sacred time! okay, consider other rights of
people too. They have a right to go and not be bothered by dogs. However,
and some people are allergic to dogs.
> she should be permitted to take the dog into the sanctuary. No, people I
do not say this is discrimination without the facts.
> Maybe there is a reason for them barring the dog. I have seen guide dogs
that are not well behaved, that  smell  or sit in public grooming
themselves; kind of gross.
> In general I think dogs should be allowed into the sacred sanctuary,
provided that they are groomed and quiet.
> In general, I also think she should sit whereever she wants, not be 
> confined to the back.
> But again, we do not know the facts of this situation.
> Also, folks, get your facts straight; churches do not have to follow the
ADA. Also, if your building was built prior to the law's inception in 1990,
remember the exemption.
> Many churches were built prior to that time as they are old. If your
building was built prior to ADA, you do not have to comply  unless you
renovate the building. Its called a grandfather clause.
> Heck the church I grew up in is probably not ADA compliant.
> 
> Good luck in resolving this.
> -----Original Message----- From: Jeanette
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:22 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] The blind and church
> 
> well she has waited till the week before  Easter to find a church 
> which seems a bit much but to have any church tell her this is appauling
to me.
> however churches are not required to follow the ADA laws in regard to 
> this, t si in the law.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" 
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:43 PM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] The blind and church
> 
> 
>> It seems as if I've ran into this problem over and over agan. Blind 
>> people being denied by the church I've been preaching since 2005, and 
>> I've never once have been denied, and they've assisted me with out my 
>> asking for it. In other words, I do not ask for money. In fact, the 
>> last church I preached, they didn't pay me. One church offered to 
>> come to my home and pick me up. They didn't have to do it for me, but 
>> the whole point is God will provide a way. RJ 
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