[Faith-talk] History about, "Separation of Church and state"
Poppa Bear
heavens4real at gmail.com
Tue Aug 27 19:53:11 UTC 2013
Thank you very much for the resources Paul. I remember listening to the
movie, "A man named Peter" about 13 years ago, it was a quick Hollywood tail
about the life and faith of Peter Marshel.
In His grip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] History about, "Separation of Church and state"
> For a more detailed examination about America's Christian heritage, one
> that I would suspect 99% of Americans, including Bible-believing
> Christians are unaware of, you might like to get the CD set entitled
> "Restoring America Seminar" from Peter Marshall Ministries of Orleans MA.
> Peter Marshall Jr., son of the famous Senate chaplain Peter Marshall Sr.
> and son of Catherine Marshall, came out with a cassette copy of the same
> in 1993 but it was updated in 2006. Believe me, you'll hear about things
> you never knew previously. For further information go to their website
> http://www.petermarshallministries.com. His daughter oversees it at the
> present.
>
> Another site worth visiting is David Barton's site called Wallbuilders, a
> very excellent location. I'm not sure, but I think the website is
> http://www.wallbuilders.com. Both of them are very excellent places to
> learn about our American Christian heritage.
>
> In addition Peter Marshall along with David Manuel wrote three books:
> "The Light and the Glory," "From Sea to Shining Sea" and "A Certain
> Trumpet." Don't know if the third book is available in accessible format
> or not, but the first one is available from Care Ministries of Starkville
> MS and the second one was available from the Bartimaeus Library for the
> Blind in Brooklyn Center MN.
>
> Anyway will end it here. Thanks, Papa Bear, for this excellent post.
> Paul from Baltimore, 40 miles northeast of the District of Corruption
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Poppa Bear" <heavens4real at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] History about, "Separation of Church and state"
>
>
>> The famous statesman Patrick Henry said, "It cannot be emphasized
>> too
>> strongly or too often that this great nation was founded . . . . . on the
>> gospel of Jesus Christ."
>>
>> John Quincy Adams, our nations 6th president, said in a July 4th
>> speech in 1837, " . . . . the Declaration of Independence . . . . laid
>> the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of
>> Christianity."
>>
>> The U. S. Supreme Court in 1892 stated, " Our laws and our
>> institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of
>> the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise.
>> In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions
>> are emphatically Christian."
>>
>> With this in mind, what is all this talk of separation between church
>> and state.
>>
>> This phrase is often coupled with the First Amendment of our
>> Constitution. But, the First Amendment simply states:
>>
>> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or
>> prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
>>
>> The words "separation", "church" or "state" are not found in the First
>> Amendment. In fact, the statement separation of church and state, is in
>> no founding document associated with the United States of America.
>>
>> The process of drafting the First Amendment made the intent of the
>> Founders clear. Before they approved the final wording, this amendment
>> went through nearly a dozen different iterations and was involved in
>> extensive discussion. These discussions are recorded in the
>> congressional
>> records, and they make clear the intent of the First Amendment.
>>
>> Our Founders were saying: we don't want in America what we had in
>> Great Britain - one church - the Anglican Church - the Church of England.
>> We will not all be Anglicans, nor Catholics, nor Congregationalists nor
>> Baptists. "By our form of government", says a 1799 court ruling, "the
>> Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and
>> denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing."
>>
>> In other words, we will be a Christian nation, adhering to God's
>> principles, but we don't want one particular Christian denomination
>> running things.
>>
>> What I am trying to establish here today is that our nation was
>> founded on religious principles. Christian, because our Founders were
>> Christians. In fact, 52 of the 55 Founding Fathers who worked on the
>> Constitution were members of mainstream Christian churches. And, what I
>> am saying is that these Founding Fathers never considered a separation of
>> church and state as we know it today. As a matter of fact in the same
>> speech of John Adams mentioned earlier he stressed that the biggest
>> victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and
>> civil government would be tied together in what he called an
>> 'indissoluble' bond. Bonding, fusing, a tying together of religion and
>> government - not separation.
>>
>> Well then - what happened?
>>
>> Our state, Connecticut, has a major part in the history of the
>> concept of separation between government and religion. In 1801 the
>> Danbury Baptist Association wrote to then President, Thomas Jefferson,
>> that they had heard a rumor that the Congregationalists were going to be
>> made the national denomination. Jefferson wrote back to the Danbury
>> Baptists, assuring them that the First Amendment had erected "a wall of
>> separation between church and state." His letter explained to the
>> Baptists that they need not fear the establishment of a national
>> denomination, and that the wall of the First Amendment would protect the
>> church from government control. This was a letter very much in synch
>> with
>> the founding fathers and the First Amendment. Yet we'll soon see how
>> this
>> letter was misused to establish our modern concept of separation between
>> church and state.
>>
>> Jefferson's letter was not used often, but on occasion, it was used
>> to support the idea that it was permissible to maintain Christian values,
>> principles and practices in official policy. But, in 1947 in the case of
>> Everson v. Board of Education, the Court, for the first time, did not
>> cite
>> Jefferson's entire letter, but selected only eight words from it. The
>> Court now announced: "The First Amendment has erected (and here are the
>> eight words) 'a wall of separation between church and state.' That wall
>> must be kept high and impregnable." This was a new philosophy for the
>> Court. It had taken the eight words from Thomas Jefferson's letter
>> completely out of context.
>>
>> After this case, the Court began to speak frequently of a separation
>> of church and state, broadly explaining that this is what the Founders
>> wanted - this is their great intent. The court failed to quote the
>> Founders; it just asserted that this is what they wanted.
>>
>> The courts continued on this track so steadily that in 1958 in a case
>> called Baer v. Kolmorgen one of the judges was tired of hearing the
>> phrase
>> and wrote a dissent, warning, that if the court did not stop talking
>> about
>> the separation of church and state, people were going to start thinking
>> it
>> was part of the Constitution.
>>
>> Dr. William James, the father of Modern Psychology, said "There is
>> nothing so absurd but if you repeat it often enough people will believe
>> it." Oh, well.
>>
>> In 1962 in the case of Engel v.Vitale, the Court delivered its first
>> ever ruling which completely separated Christian principles from
>> education; the case struck down school prayer. And, in this case, the
>> Court redefined the word "church". For 170 years prior, the word,
>> "church" - as used in the phrase, "separation of church and state" was
>> defined to simply mean, "a federally established denomination." However,
>> the Court now explained that the word, "church", would mean "a religious
>> activity in public".
>>
>> This was the major turning point in the interpretation of the First
>> Amendment. Understand that the Court had just announced a brand new
>> doctrine. With no historical or legal precedent - it now could prohibit
>> religious activities in public settings.
>>
>> And, listen to the prayer in dispute - the prayer that caused this
>> decision to be made: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon
>> Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our
>> Country."
>>
>> This prayer which could be said by any believer in God regardless of
>> which religion - this prayer which acknowledges God only once, the same
>> number of times as in the Pledge of Allegiance and only one fourth of the
>> times as in the Declaration of Independence, was rendered
>> unconstitutional. When the Court declares something unconstitutional it
>> is inferring that our Founding Fathers - the men who drafted the
>> Constitution - would have opposed it. In this case this is absolutely
>> not
>> true. To repeat - this was a brand new doctrine with no legal or
>> historical precedent.
>>
>> We have been robbed of our Godly heritage.
>>
>> Many similar decisions have been made by our courts since this
>> landmark case - some absolutely ludicrous. But let's move on.
>>
>> I'd like you to visualize a graph with a straight or slightly
>> declining trendline through the 50's. Then, abruptly, in 1962/63 the
>> graph rises dramatically and continues rising through today.
>>
>> I'll mention only a few, but this would be a typical chart for things
>> such as:
>>
>> Pregnancies in girls from 15-19 years old
>> Sexually transmitted diseases to high school students
>> Voluntary Abortion
>> Violent Crimes - In fact, the U. S. is now the world leader in
>> violent crimes.
>>
>> Is this coincidental, or does this have something to do with the new
>> treatment of separation of church and state and the striking of prayer
>> from schools. I don't think it's at all coincidental. It's probably not
>> the only reason, but it certainly is a major contributor.
>>
>> George Washington in his farewell address warned that morality cannot
>> be maintained without religion. "Let it simply be asked," he went on to
>> say, "Where is the security for life, for reputation and for property if
>> the sense of religious obligation desert."
>>
>> Is our country involved in a moral decline? There is no doubt about
>> it.
>>
>> Are we being robbed of our Godly heritage? I believe we are.
>>
>> And, I would close today imploring us to do whatever we can to bring
>> God and Christian values back into our hearts, back into our families,
>> back into our schools and back to the heart of our country.
>>
>> God Bless You!!
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The electronic form of this document is copyrighted.
>> Copyright (c) Trinity Communications 1994.
>>
>> Talk by Richard Renker, deacon,
>> at St. John of the Cross Church Middlebury, CT, June 1994.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate Kile, Cross Road Recording Studios, specializing in Mixing,
>> Mastering and all your audio needs. www.crossroadrecording.com
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