[Faith-talk] Inerrancy of Scripture was Re: blindness and faithissues question

Maureen Pranghofer maureensmusic at comcast.net
Sat Dec 20 18:19:34 UTC 2014 

Hi
Whether or not there has been a Trinity has been one of the main devisive 
items throughout Christian history.  The question isn't a Father,Son and 
Spirit but whether they can each be separate from each other and still 
together.  So I ued to think of it that way, that's what I learned growing 
up Catholic.  They always compared the Trinity to an egg with the shell, 
white and yolk.  But as I've read and studied and wonder I feel it is more 
like God poured Himself into flesh, Jesus but He's still God and His Spirit 
is the Holy Spirit, so is that the same way you think of the Trinity?
Maureen


-----Original Message----- 
From: Christine Olivares via Faith-talk
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 2:31 PM
To: Timothy Clark Ministries
Cc: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Inerrancy of Scripture was Re: blindness and 
faithissues question

Wait, don’t all Christians believe in the Trinity? Just curious more than 
anything. Don’t you believe God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Not trying to convert, just curious.
> On Dec 18, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brandon -
> i frankly do not observe the trinity. yet, i know what it is that you are 
> referring to but, that doesn’t convince me otherwise.
> Timothy Clark Ministries
>
>
>
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>
> On Kislev 26, 5775 AM, at 14:22, Brandon A. Olivares 
> <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That’s absolutely not true at all. Things have been blatantly added to 
>> the Bible later on to support a doctrine the Church was trying to spread. 
>> Example: 1 John 5:7-8, where it tries to elaborate the doctrine of the 
>> Trinity. Yet in the oldest manuscripts, this is simply not present as 
>> such. The Trinity is one of the central doctrines of Christianity, and 
>> the only extant reference to it in the New Testament is seen to have been 
>> added later on.
>>
>> Historical evidence suggests that the Gospels weren’t written until the 
>> mid to late 2nd century, long after the apostles they were attributed to 
>> would have been dead, if such apostles even existed. The only evidence we 
>> have that the Bible is true is the words of the Bible itself, which is 
>> not sufficient evidence for me, at least.
>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> hello there -
>>> while i understand where you are coming from, the thing you fail to 
>>> realise is while the wording might be a little different, the message is 
>>> still the same.
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> On Kislev 26, 5775 AM, at 14:04, Christine Olivares 
>>> <rafael4490 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here’s one for you. We don’t have the original scripts of the Bible. In 
>>>> fact, there are a million translations out there, and each one says 
>>>> something a little different. Not even Catholics have the original 
>>>> Bible. No one does. When the scribes translated and wrote the Word 
>>>> down, they did make mistakes. I have heard of discrepancies in the 
>>>> bible due to people’s errors. If we do have the true word of God, this 
>>>> would a different discussion, but since we don’t , we don’t know what 
>>>> is happening.
>>>>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk 
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> brandon, if you are driving along and your gas gage quits working, do 
>>>>> you drive along assuming you have a full tank?
>>>>> wow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Kislev 26, 5775 AM, at 11:00, Brandon A. Olivares via Faith-talk 
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But in a religion where guilt is the primary motivator, one must 
>>>>>> wonder whether something has gone awry. In my experience, we know 
>>>>>> exactly the perfect thing to do, without the man-made rules to 
>>>>>> constrict us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Poppa Bear <heavens4real at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes guilt is like the flashing light on the dashboard of a car 
>>>>>>> warning you that something is going wrong. We live in a world where 
>>>>>>> people take a hammer and smash the instruments that warn us and 
>>>>>>> guide us and then wonder why they crashed and burned. Guilt has its 
>>>>>>> place, just like all emotions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>> Brandon A. Olivares via Faith-talk
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 6:52 AM
>>>>>>> To: Christine Allison Olivares; Faith-talk, for the discussion of 
>>>>>>> faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] blindness and faith issues question
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Christine. Only you know what your limits are, if 
>>>>>>> waiting until marriage is something that’s important to you. IMO it’s 
>>>>>>> none of your church’s business. So many churches now seem to focus 
>>>>>>> on pharisaical rules. The important thing you should be asking is, 
>>>>>>> how is your relationship with the Divine / God? Do you live a good 
>>>>>>> life? Do you help others? Beyond that, the rules are just man-made 
>>>>>>> constructs. Religion shouldn’t be something that inspires guilt, it 
>>>>>>> should be something that inspires you to greatness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peace,
>>>>>>> Brandon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Christine Olivares via Faith-talk 
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>>>>>> As I have said, you should do what you feel is right. My husband 
>>>>>>>> and I did live together before marriage with his mom, and yes, even 
>>>>>>>> slept in the same bed. Oh dear! Well, we didn’t have any problems 
>>>>>>>> staying pure, so I disagree that because you are in the same 
>>>>>>>> proximity you will just start popping out babies. If you do have 
>>>>>>>> enough discipline you should be fine. If you do feel you are going 
>>>>>>>> to be tempted, then have him stay in someone else’s house.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I honestly think people are just assuming it will be tough for you 
>>>>>>>> to make your own decisions, and that you will be “tempted.” It 
>>>>>>>> depends on how you value being a Christian, and I don’t say this as 
>>>>>>>> blaming you but for your own self-examination. Are you a strict 
>>>>>>>> Christian or will you do what is easier for you? Blake is staying 
>>>>>>>> for a week, it’s not like he is living with you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am more of an open-minded Christian in that sometimes you have to 
>>>>>>>> think outside the box and not judge anyone at all. You need to do 
>>>>>>>> what helps you and what is best for you. If you know you will be 
>>>>>>>> tempted, do something about it. If not, then proceed as planned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have many people who are giving you all different opinions, and 
>>>>>>>> no opinion is gospel. So just take what everyone is saying and do 
>>>>>>>> what you feel is right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2014, at 2:28 AM, Debby Phillips via Faith-talk 
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Beth, I hate to sound like a stick in the mud, but I think your 
>>>>>>>>> pastor is right.  I know all the practical stuff, I understand. 
>>>>>>>>> There's a part of me that wants to say, hey, Blake should be able 
>>>>>>>>> to stay with you.  But a bigger part of me says, no.  How long is 
>>>>>>>>> he going to be in Denver? Would it work for him to spend the night 
>>>>>>>>> at a church member's home? You see, I know how these things work. 
>>>>>>>>> Nobody ever "intends" to have sex.  But it's very difficult when 
>>>>>>>>> two people are together in close proximity for it not to happen. 
>>>>>>>>> And Scripture and other spiritual writers talk about "the occasion 
>>>>>>>>> of sin".  In other words, you need to not put yourself into 
>>>>>>>>> situations where temptation can lead to sin.  Your pastor is being 
>>>>>>>>> just that, your pastor.  He is a wise man.  Why not ask him if he 
>>>>>>>>> has any suggestions as to what you could do so that you could 
>>>>>>>>> enjoy Blake's visit without putting yourself in to a position 
>>>>>>>>> where you might give into temptation?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have been in those situations Beth, and I have to say that I 
>>>>>>>>> almost blew it.  Plus it's not a great witness for two Christians, 
>>>>>>>>> male and female to be living in the same house.  People will 
>>>>>>>>> speculate and think that you had sex whether you did or not.  This 
>>>>>>>>> is really not a blindness issue other than you need to make 
>>>>>>>>> different arrangements.  And be thankful that you have a pastor 
>>>>>>>>> who is looking out for your best interests.    Blessings,    Debby 
>>>>>>>>> and Neena
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>


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