[Faith-talk] Explaining the Trinity
Poppa Bear
heavens4real at gmail.com
Mon Mar 10 16:25:33 UTC 2014
Your very welcom Sheila. Glad to know that some are still hungry for the
truths of our faith.
----- Original Message -----
From: "sheila" <sleigland at bresnan.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Explaining the Trinity
thank you thank you and tripple thank you. I'm happy to see an article
put together in such a concise way.
On 3/9/2014 11:38 AM, Poppa Bear wrote:
> Here is an article that goes over the doctrine of the trinity in a
> thorough and Biblical way. I hope that if some read it this that even if
> they don't agree with it they can be informed about the doctrine and have
> a clear understanding in order to make more accurate statements about what
> it is, where it came from and why they disagree with it. If a person
> continues to discredit it with out making an analytical study of both
> sides of the argument and only gathers information to support his or her
> preconceived ideas about it then the question may be asked, "is that
> intellectual dishonesty"? If a person does not want to take an analytical
> look at the evidence of the things they are creating arguments against
> then perhaps they should not speak on it. There is a simple old saying
> that says, "Know that what you know is so." Very cut and dry, if you don't
> know it, don't speak on it as if you do.
>
>
>
> "Why The Trinity?
>
> By Cooper P. Abrams, III
>
> All Rights Reserved
>
>
>
>
>
> Gadgets powered by Google
>
>
>
> INTRODUCTION: From the Second Century to our present age, many people have
> found the biblical doctrine of the Trinity hard to understand. The
> doctrine of the Trinity recognizes that God is one God, co-existing in
> three distinct Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In our
> material existence, the concept that God is One God, yet exists as three
> distinct persons, is foreign to us. However, the doctrine of the Godhead
> (Trinity) is without questions revealed in God's word.
>
> The biblical term "Godhead" (theiotes) is used three times in
> Scripture, Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9. The word "Trinity,"
> which is the theological word Christians use to refer to the Godhead, is
> not found in Scripture.
>
> · "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to
> think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by
> art and man's device" (Acts 17:29).
>
> · "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world
> are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his
> eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)
>
> · "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
> (Colossians 2:9)
>
> The doctrine states that the Godhead, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
> consists of three distinct Persons, yet these three are one God. There are
> many arguments espoused by those that deny the Trinity, but the most
> prevalent is: How can God be One God and at the same time be three
> Persons?
>
> The problem with that question is that it is based in ignorance of what
> God has said about Himself. The Bible, the Word of God, plainly states
> the plurality of God and that God is One God. To accept His Word means
> to believe what God has revealed. The truth of the Trinity is a revealed
> truth that is established in the credibility of God Himself.
>
> In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus gave His disciples the Great Commission,
> stating that they were to teach and baptize in the names of the Godhead,
> "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
> Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe
> all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
> even unto the end of the world. Amen."
>
> Further 1 John 5:7 states "For there are three that bear record in heaven,
> the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."[1]
> The fact God did not inspire the writers of Scripture to use the modern
> word "Trinity" does imply that it is not a biblical truth. However, there
> are many words and phrases that Christians use to express biblical
> doctrines that are not found in the Bible. One is the word "rapture."
> This word also is not found in Scripture, but the phrase "shall be caught
> up" (harpagesometha) is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and means to "catch
> away" or in Latin "rapiemur"meaning to be snatched away. In fact, the word
> "Bible" is also not found in the Scriptures. Would we dismiss the
> existence of the Bible because the word is not found in Scripture?[2]
>
> Those that deny the Trinity are denying the Godhead. They argue that it is
> physically impossible for three distinct persons to be only one. This
> article will show that they are both right and wrong. They are right in
> the sense that it is impossible for us to explain how this can be a
> reality in our physical/material world. But they are wrong in denying
> that God is a Triune God. The approach of this paper will be first to
> authenticate the biblical doctrine by presenting biblical statements
> attesting to this truth.
>
> One reason those who deny the Trinity do so is the Bible clearly teaches
> monotheism, meaning that God is One God. (Deut. 4:35-36, 6:4)
>
> · "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD
> he is God; there is none else beside him. Out of heaven he made thee to
> hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee
> his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire."
> (Deuteronomy 4:35-36)
>
> · "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and
> with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I
> command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:" (Deuteronomy 6:5-6)
>
>
>
> · "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the
> LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is
> no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
>
> · "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."
> (Isaiah 43:11)
>
> The Scriptures unmistakably refer to the plurality of God in the He as
> exists in Three Persons. Secondly, this paper will present a practical
> explanation of the doctrine in human terms.
>
> Overwhelmingly, the Bible teaches the Trinitarian concept of one God
> existing as three persons. The Bible does not teach polytheism, which says
> that there are three separate Gods called the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
> Nor does the Bible say God is one person who took three forms or that the
> God the Father became the Son, who then became the Holy Spirit, as is
> taught by some false churches. The Bible does not teach that God is only
> one person or that Jesus is not God, but only God's procreated son.[3]
> The word of God does not teach that Jesus was created.
>
> The Bible specifically states that God is Spirit and was never a man.
>
> · "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
> that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he
> spoken, and shall he not make it good?" (Numbers 23:19)
>
> · "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he
> is not a man, that he should repent." (1 Samuel 15:29)
>
> The Bible further plainly states that Jesus Christ, being God, is eternal,
> as is the Father. The Apostle John states clearly that Jesus, the Word,
> was with God in the beginning of the Universe. "In the beginning was the
> Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the
> beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not
> any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light
> of men." (John 1:1-4) This passage will be explained in detail later in
> the article.
>
> Jesus Himself plainly refers to eternity.
>
> · "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
> Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58)
>
> Alfa and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. In
> the following verse the term Alpha and Omega are defined by God Himself by
> the phrase "the beginning and the end" (verse 8) and "the first and the
> last" (verse 11).
>
> · "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the
> Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. . . .
> Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou
> seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in
> Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira,
> and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." (Revelation
> 1:8, 11)
>
> · "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the
> beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the
> fountain of the water of life freely." (Revelation 21:6)
>
> · "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and
> the last." (Revelation 22:13)
>
> How Does the Bible Teach the Doctrine of the Trinity?
>
> The following chart shows some of the many passages in the Bible from
> which the doctrine of the Trinity is derived. Note that God the Father,
> Son and Holy Spirit are all called God and all have the same attributes,
> which are attributes that only God has.
>
> THE TRIUNE GODHEAD PRESENTED IN SCRIPTURE
>
>
> FATHER
> SON
> HOLY SPIRIT
>
>
>
> Called God
> Phil. 1:2
> John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9
> Acts 5:3-4
>
> Creator
> Isa. 64:8; 44:24
> John 1:3
> Gen. 1:2
>
> Resurrects
> 1 Thess. 1:10
> John 2:19, 10:17
> Rom. 8:11
>
> Indwells
> 2 Cor. 6:16
> Col. 1:27
> John 14:17
>
> Everywhere
> 1 Kings 8:27
> Matt. 28:20
> Psa. 139:7-10
>
> All knowing
> 1 John 3:20
> John 16:30; 21:17
> 1 Cor. 2:10-11
>
> Sanctifies
> 1 Thess. 5:23
> Heb. 2:11
> 1 Pet. 1:2
>
> Life giver
> Gen. 2:7: John 5;21
> John 1:3; 5:21
> 2 Cor. 3:6,8
>
> Fellowship
> 1 John 1:3
> 1 Cor. 1:9
> 2 Cor. 13:14; Phil. 2:1
>
> Eternal
> Psa. 90:2
> Micah 5:1-2
> Rom. 8:11; Heb. 9:14
>
> A Will
> Luke 22:42
> Luke 22:42
> 1 Cor. 12:11
>
> Speaks
> Matt. 3:17; Luke 3:22
> Luke 5:20; 7:48
> Acts 8:29; 11:12; 13:2
>
> Love
> John 3:16
> Eph. 5: 25
> Rom. 15:30
>
> Searches the heart
> Jer. 17:10
> Rev. 2:23
> 1 Cor. 2:10
>
> We belong to
> John 17:9
> John 17:6
>
>
> Savior
> 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:10
> 2 Tim. 1:10; Tit. 1:4; 3:6
>
>
> We serve
> Matt. 4:10
> Col. 3:24
>
>
> Believe in
> John 14:1
> John 14:1
>
>
>
> Gives joy
> John 15:9-11
> Luke 1:14, John 15:11, 17:13
>
>
> Judges
> John 8:50
> John 5:22, 30
>
>
>
>
>
> Passages in the Old Testament that Teach Plurality in the Oneness of God.
>
> ________________
> Deuteronomy 6:4
>
> "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD"
>
> The Bible, in this verse, emphatically states there is only one God.[4]
> "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark
> 12:29). Literally, the verse says, "Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is
> a united Jehovah." The Bible is the inerrant inspired Word of God and this
> statement can only be understood in that God is telling us He is One God.
> (See 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:21). Yet, this does not mean that
> within the Godhead there is not a plurality. Scripturally, plurality
> means, that God is One God existing in three distinct Persons.
>
> The Hebrew word for one is Echad and "stresses unity while recognizing
> diversity with that oneness."[5] This same word is used in Genesis 2:24,
> "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave
> unto his wife: and they shall be one (Echad) flesh." Therefore, God says
> that two individuals, Adam and Eve, were one flesh. Exodus 24:3 states "
> . . . All the people answered with one (Echad) voice, and said, All the
> words which the LORD hath said will we do." Note that all the people,
> which were a great multitude, replied with one voice. There are many other
> instances where the word is used to show the oneness of many individuals.
> In other words, the Hebrew word Echad allows for plurality within oneness,
> allowing God, who is emphatically described as one God, to be three
> Persons who are One God.
>
> There is another Hebrew word that means "one" which is "Yahad." This word
> is always singular and can only mean one and so its use allows no
> plurality. God could have used this word in Deuteronomy 6:4, but chose
> Echad instead, which allows the concept of God being One God who is in
> essence is three individual Persons. Thiessen says, "A unity is, however,
> not inconsistent with the conception of the trinity; for a unity is not
> the same as a unit."[6]
>
> This concept can be further seen in the descriptions of the Person of God
> in the Old Testament:
>
> · The Person of God no one is allowed to see. "Thou canst not see
> my face: for there shall no man see me, and live" (Ex. 33:20).
>
> · The Person of God we can see. "And the LORD appeared unto him in
> the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day"
> (Genesis 18:1, See 2-33). (This is a preincarnate appearance of the Lord
> Jesus Christ)
>
> · The Person of God that cannot be seen. "And the earth was
> without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And
> the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (Gen. 1:2). (The
> Holy Spirit is in essence a spirit and cannot be seen by physical beings)
>
> _______________
> Genesis 1:1-2
>
> "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was
> without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And
> the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
>
> The Old Testament begins by teaching that God is One in three Persons. In
> Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew name for God is "Elohim" which is used more than
> two thousand times in the plural form in the Bible.[7] Further, the name
> "Elohim" occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language.[8] This
> is a plural noun, but the verb is singular which is not a normal use of
> grammar. Normally a plural noun would have a plural verb. But, if you
> wanted to teach that God is one and also a plurality, using the unique
> grammatical construction of using of a plural noun with a singular verb
> would be used. Therefore, this passage teaches that there is one God who
> exists in a plurality.
>
> _______________
> Genesis 1:26
>
> "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . . "
>
> Again in Genesis 1:26, God is spoken of as plural. "And God said, Let us
> make man in our image . . . " The word "man" is the word "Adam" and
> refers to a human being both man and female. The same word for "one"
> (Echad) is used in Genesis 2:24, speaking of the oneness of a husband and
> wife. God sees a husband and wife spiritually as being one. This is
> another verse that helps to establish that two or more can spiritually be
> one.
>
> _______________
> Genesis 11:7-8
>
> "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may
> not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad
> from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the
> city."
>
> Genesis 11:7-8 says the LORD scattered the antediluvians abroad from
> thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the
> city. God is spoken of in the plural (let "us" go down) and in the
> singular (Jehovah = "the existing One") at the same time. This passage
> summarizes the Bible's teaching that God is one, but exists in a plurality
> of three Persons.
>
> _______________
> Psalm 45:6-7
>
> "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a
> right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore
> God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy
> fellows."
>
> According to Hebrews 1:8-9, God the Father is speaking in Psalm 45, and He
> is referring to the Son as God. "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O
> God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of
> thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore
> God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy
> fellows "(Heb. 1:8-9).
>
> The question is: If the Son Himself was God, why did He address the Father
> as God? The Son addressed the Father as God for the same reason that the
> Father addressed the Son as God: because they are both God!
>
> _______________
> Isaiah 48:16-17
>
> "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the
> beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD,
> and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy
> One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which
> leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."
>
> God the Father states He is the "Lord GOD; I am the Lord thy God." He then
> unmistakably further says He is thy "Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel."
> Isaiah 44:24 proclaims the Redeemer made Israel and the heavens, "Thus
> saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am
> the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
> that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Both verses refer to the
> promised Messiah who is both Jesus and God. Jesus is the Redeemer. The
> LORD (Jehovah) states that He is the Creator. Therefore, the Bible is
> saying that it is God (Jehovah) the Father who is the Creator. At the same
> time, the Bible is stating that Jesus Christ is the Creator. (See John
> 1:3-4, Eph. 3:9, Col. 1: 16)
>
> _______________
> Jeremiah 23:5-6
>
> "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a
> righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute
> judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and
> Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be
> called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
>
> The verse identifies the person speaking as being "the Lord" (Jehovah) and
> Jehovah is talking about another person who, in the future, will come to
> earth. David's descendent, a King who will reign, prosper and will judge
> the earth. Jehovah then gives His name as "JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
> This is a reference to the promised Messiah, who will be a man and a
> descendant of David. God the Father identifies Himself in the Old
> Testament as "Jehovah" and here He says the Messiah's name is also called
> "Jehovah" (insert comma) which is the sacred name of God. It would be
> blasphemy to call any man "Jehovah" yet this is plainly the name by which
> the Messiah would be called. There can be no mistake that God the Father
> is saying the Messiah Jesus is God.
>
> _______________
> Isaiah 9:6
>
> "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
> shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,
> Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
>
> This is another prophecy foretelling the birth of the Messiah. Note that
> the Messiah is called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father." There can
> be no doubt that this passage is saying a human child would be born who is
> identified as God and the Father. Why would God the Father state that the
> Messiah, a man, is God and the Father if He was not? Proverbs 30:4-5
> states God's word are pure, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or
> descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the
> waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what
> is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? Every word of
> God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." God is
> saying His words are pure and that He is the Creator and He has a Son.
> Clearly this passage is saying that Jesus Christ (Christ = Messiah) is God
> incarnate in man.
>
> NEW TESTAMENT PASSAGES THAT TEACH THE TRINITY
>
> The New Testament clearly states that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14); the
> Father is God (Phil. 1:2); and the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4). Since
> the Son speaks to the Father, they are separate persons (John 17). Since
> the Holy Spirit speaks also (Acts 13:2), He, too, is a separate person.
> There can be no question that the New Testament proclaims there is only
> One God and that He exists in three distinct persons.
>
> _______________
> John 1:1, 14-15
>
> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
> was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by
> him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . .And the
> Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the
> glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
> John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake,
> He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."
>
> The verse emphatically states that the "Word" (Logos) was God. John
> 1:14-15 unmistakably proclaims that the "Word" was made flesh and this
> establishes the incarnation of God. God came to earth as a man. The
> passage unquestionably identifies Jesus Christ as the Word, who was God,
> stating that John the Baptist bare witness of Him.
>
> John 1:3 teaches that it was Jesus Christ, the Word (Logos) who created
> all things. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any
> thing made that was made" (John 1:3) However, Genesis 1:1 states "In the
> beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth." This passage
> without a doubt establishes the deity of Jesus Christ, affirming that He
> is God and that He created all things. Speaking of Christ Colossians 1:16
> states, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
> are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
> dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
> and for him." Further, Colossians 1:17 adds "And he is before all things,
> and by him all things consist." (See Heb. 1:3, 10)
>
> God plainly states in Exodus 34:14 that man is not to worship any other
> God. "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is
> Jealous, is a jealous God." Colossians 1:18 states that Jesus is to have
> the preeminence in all things. "And he is the head of the body, the
> church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all
> things he might have the preeminence" (Col. 1:18). Further, Jesus was
> worshiped many times while on earth. (See Matt. 2:11, 15:25, 28:17; Mark
> 3:11, 5:6, 33, 14:33 15:19; Luke 5:8; 8:28, 41, 17:16, 24:52; John 9:38;
> Rev. 5:14) Jesus accepted the worship of men because He is God.
>
> Obviously, there is a pattern presented by these Scriptures. God the
> Father is emphatically said to have created the heavens and the earth and
> at the same time Jesus is proclaimed to be the Creator. In Genesis 1:2,
> the Holy Spirit is shown as having "moved" upon the face of the waters."
> (Also see Psalms 104:30) The only way these are true because is if God the
> Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one God.
>
> ________________
> John 8:58
>
> "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
> I am."
>
> In John 8:58 Jesus ended a confrontational discourse with the religious
> Jews and proclaimed that He was "I am," a name that only applies to God
> the Father. The Jews then rioted and took up stones to kill Jesus, but He
> eluded them and passed through the midst of them unharmed. What caused
> them to riot was that Jesus said plainly that He was Jehovah God, the
> "Self-Existent One." (Exodus 3:14) Using the name "I am," He identified
> Himself as the One who sent Moses to the children of Israel when they were
> in captivity in Egypt. The Jews fully understood what He had said and were
> so angry with Him making the statement that they rushed to kill Him. There
> can be no mistake that Jesus stated He was Jehovah God, which certainly
> confirms the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
>
> ________________
> John 10:30
>
> "I and my Father are one."
>
> In John 10:30, Jesus said that "I and my Father are one." The word "One"
> is in the neuter gender. This statement rules out the meaning that they
> are only one in purpose as some misinterpret this verse to say. It affirms
> that Jesus and God are separate persons, but one God, with the Holy
> Spirit. The verse says they are in perfect unity in their natures and
> actions. Jesus emphatically stated on this occasion that He was God. The
> Jews who heard Him saw a man standing before them and they fully
> understood what He had just stated. They were so offended at His statement
> that they took up stones to put Him to death, "because that thou, being a
> man, makest thyself God" (John 20:33b) These Jews fully understood that
> God presents Himself in the Old Testament as monotheistic, which in their
> minds precluded that Jesus could be God also.[9] Here again the Bible
> unmistakably tells us from Christ's own words that God the Father and
> Jesus Christ are One.
>
> _______________
> Matthew 1:23
>
> "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and
> they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with
> us."
>
> The angel announced to Joseph that Mary was with child and the Son she
> would give birth to would be called "Emmanuel," meaning God with us.
> Matthew clearly claimed not only that Christ was born of a virgin, but
> that this was anticipated by the prophecy of Isaiah as being the method by
> which God would become a man.[10]
>
> _______________
> 1 Timothy 3:16
>
> "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
> manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached
> unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
>
> This passage begins with "without controversy" as if anticipating those
> who would deny the Trinity. It then soundly affirms the doctrine. The
> phrase "without controversy" means simply "obviously" or "beyond all
> question." The next statement "The mystery of Godliness is great" denotes
> the importance and magnitude of this now revealed mystery or truth that
> was not revealed in the Old Testament. A mystery in the Bible is simply a
> previously unrevealed truth. In other words, in the Old Testament this
> truth was not stated.
>
> The mystery is that "God was manifest in the flesh!" This is as
> straightforward a statement as can be made on the matter. This verse says
> that God is manifested in the flesh or God is incarnate in flesh. The
> Greek word is "phneroo" meaning, "to make visible." (See John 1:1-14,
> 14:7, Col. 1:15, 1 Tim. 1:17) Jesus was "justified in the Spirit"
> proclaiming that it was not the flesh that justified, but the Holy Spirit.
> Jesus Christ was thus vindicated in the Spirit at His resurrection. Some
> believe this means Jesus was "seen of angels" but the word is "angelos"
> which means a messenger. Contextually, it is referring to the Apostles who
> saw the Lord in the flesh and preached the Gospel to the Gentiles. That
> Jesus was "preached among the Gentiles" refers to the scope of His
> ministry that He came to save all nations, not just the Jews. He was more
> than the Jewish Messiah, but was the Savior of the world. Jesus was
> "believed on in the world" being proven to be the Redeemer and is believed
> on and accepted as Savior by those who seek after God. He was then
> "received up into glory when His work was finished. Today Christ is at the
> right hand of God, making intercession for those who by faith are trusting
> in Him.
>
> There can be no mistake that this verse reveals that Jesus Christ is God
> and attests to the fact that Jesus and God are One.
>
> SUMMARY
>
> The verses presented and many others clearly teach that God is One God.
> These passages state that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are also God.
> Thus the Bible affirms one of the most important doctrines in Scripture
> that God is one God existing in a unity of God the Father, Son and Holy
> Spirit. The full importance of understanding and accepting this truth is
> found in the Epistle of 1 John:
>
> "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are
> of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby
> know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ
> is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that
> Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit
> of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now
> already is it in the world." (1 John 4:1-3).
>
> It must be noted that the phrase "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" is a
> direct reference to His deity and that GOD came to the earth in flesh. All
> men are "born in the flesh," therefore this verse has no significance
> unless it is referring to God coming in the flesh. John says those that
> deny this revealed truth of the Trinity are not of God and the denial of
> this doctrine comes from the spirit of the antichrist who is directed by
> Satan.
>
> The biblical doctrine of the Trinity was not invented by man or any
> church. Its origin is in the plain and unmistaken statements made
> throughout the Bible. It is revealed truth and a part of salvation. When
> a person comes to God he must accept who He is and what is His revealed
> nature.
>
> "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to
> God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that
> diligently seek him. " (Hebrews 11:6)
>
> How Can We Understand that God is One God Existing in Three Distinct
> Persons?
>
> How can we understand that God can be One God, yet be three distinct
> persons? The answer is really quite simple and easy to understand if we
> accept that the Bible is the very word of God and what we are reading is
> God's revelation to man about Himself. Thiessen states, "His (God) being
> is simple; man's is compound, having both a material and an immaterial
> part. But God is spirit and is not susceptible of such division."[11]
>
> Is it reasonable for us to demand that we understand perfectly everything
> about our Magnificent and Almighty God? Do we understand fully everything
> we believe and know to be true? Do we fully understand our own selves or
> most of the things in the world in which we live? How can we expect
> fully to understand the eternal, wholly spiritual, Almighty God?
>
> The answer is "No." Man knows very little about the world in which he
> exists. 2 Timothy 2:23 rightly warns us to avoid foolish and unlearned
> questions.[12] A foolish question is one that is used to attempt to
> overthrow a plain Bible teaching, such as questions about the Trinity, or
> the resurrection, or the incarnation of Christ, or the condition of man
> after death.
>
> The false teacher asks foolish questions, which causes people to doubt the
> Word of God. The true teacher encourages people to believe the Word of God
> despite whether its teachings seem perfectly reasonable to human
> understanding or not.[13] The problem is not with what the Bible reveals,
> but with man's unwillingness to accept and understand what God has stated
> as fact.
>
> The following illustration is not a perfect example, but helps illustrate
> a point. We all believe in gravity but we cannot explain it. Our
> inability to explain or even understand what gravity is does not mean
> there is no gravity. It exists and we can see what it does. We cannot
> see it or touch it or in any way explain what it is. Gravity is the most
> important force in the universe and affects everything in it. The
> physicist tells us even the smallest particle of subatomic matter is held
> in place by the force of gravity, yet no one knows what gravity is or what
> makes it work.
>
> Wouldn't it be reasonable and logical to accept, that although we do not
> understand with human reasoning how it is possible, that God is three
> Persons and One God? If we deny the possibility of the Trinity then we
> must also declare that we are omniscient, which means our knowledge is
> infinite and absolute. Do we know everything there is to know about
> everything? Do we even know everything about our physical world? How
> then can we honestly proclaim we know everything in the realm of the
> spiritual world where God exists? We are in essence a spiritual being,
> but physical. When we consider, as this paper shows, that the Bible, that
> is God's own word on the matter, plainly establishes Trinity, how can we
> set ourselves up as judges of God's word and declare that God is not a
> Trinity with your limited knowledge of the universe? How can any man set
> himself up as an authority on something he cannot explain? Is it logical
> to say because I cannot explain or understand the Trinity in physical
> terms that it does not exists? The answer is obvious.
>
> Do we deny the existence of gravity, atoms, electrons, protons, and the
> atomic particles of the Universe because we do not know how they exist or
> can explain them? We accept it by faith because scientists, who we trust,
> tell us they exist and we accept their statements. They reveal to us the
> existence of atomic and subatomic particles that we cannot see. Do we call
> the scientists, who have knowledge of these things, liars because we
> cannot understand or see what they reveal to us? In a similar way we
> accept the truth of the Trinity, although not being able to fully
> understand it or explain it, because God, who certainly knows who He is,
> has revealed it to us in His written word.
>
> It is a fact that those who deny the Trinity also deny the clear teachings
> of God's word. The cults and false religions deny the deity of Jesus
> Christ, and the cardinal doctrines of Bible. The basic flaw in their
> theology is although they proclaim to have God's truth, the in fact deny
> God's statements about Himself and truth. Can such as these have any
> credibility in having any knowledge of God? If they did not get their
> knowledge from God's word, where could it come from except faulty human
> reasoning?
>
> Why then is it so hard for some men to accept the biblical
> truth of the Trinity? The key to this misunderstanding lays in man's
> microfying our infinite Creator. In other words, making Him finite like
> us? This act demeans and debases our omnipotent and glorious God and
> brings Him down to the level of man. God is not man and the immensity of
> His being is so far beyond our finite understanding that we cannot even
> begin comprehend who He truly is. However, He has revealed to us
> through His word the Bible; all we need to know about Him and thereby to
> fully believe and trust in Him.[14]
>
> John 3:19 says, "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the
> world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were
> evil." The verse says that "light," referring to God's revealed truth of
> Jesus Christ the Savior, has been given to us by God, but because of his
> sin man refuses to accept it.
>
> We must understand that man lives in a material universe and is subject to
> physical limitations of this world and to time and space. However, God
> exists in a spiritual world outside our universe that is not material nor
> subject to time and space. God says He is Spirit (John 4:24), which is
> simply revealed truth from God about Himself. God does not explain what a
> Spirit is because we cannot understand it. There is nothing in our
> material world to compare with the spiritual realm of God. But we do know
> that it is different from the material universe that we live in, and that
> God's essence as spirit is different ours.
>
> In our physical world we can only describe something by using words, terms
> or things that are familiar to us. If I try to tell someone what a house
> is, I have the advantage of that person having seen other houses.
> Therefore, even though there are many different kinds of houses, it is
> understand what the word "house" is generally referring to. Yet, when we
> try to describe God as a Spirit or the Trinity, we have no such advantage.
> There is nothing in our material world with which we can compare a Spirit
> or the spiritual realm wherein God exists.
>
> God exists outside the universe and in a spiritual dimension beyond our
> human ability to perceive. The physical laws of our universe do not
> apply. Our world is material, not spiritual, and therefore the concept is
> foreign to us. This is why God does not attempt to explain the Trinity to
> us in His word. We cannot understand it because we are material beings and
> only know material things. Yet, the doctrine is true because God has
> revealed it to us as fact in His word. The Bible teaches that God is one
> God existing in three distinct persons; God the Father, the Son and the
> Holy Spirit. Those who believe and trust God believe this doctrine because
> it is revealed truth from God, who cannot lie.
>
> The Bible also reveals that God is eternal, yet some of the same people
> who deny the Trinity, will accept that God is eternal and infinite. Yet,
> the idea that God is an eternal God is just as foreign to our
> understanding as the Trinity. In our world nothing is eternal and
> everything has a beginning and will have an end, but not so with God, who
> is not subject to time and exists in a realm in which there is no time.
> Psalm 90:2, states, "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou
> hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
> everlasting, thou art God." The term "everlasting to everlasting" means
> that God is infinite in time, having no beginning or end. This is another
> revealed truth that we cannot comprehend. Man, is as a material being, is
> limited by time and space. Being limited by time, we cannot conceive of an
> infinite God that exists outside time. This universe, including you and
> me, had a physical beginning and we will have a physical end. Yet, says
> He is eternal, having no beginning or ending. God reveals Himself in His
> word saying "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first
> and the last" (Rev. 22:13).
>
> Many who deny the doctrine of the Trinity also deny other clear teachings
> of the Bible such as the deity of Jesus Christ, salvation by grace apart
> from works, the miracles, the prophecies, and a host of other cardinal
> doctrines God has revealed to us. These truths are the supernatural works
> of God. Man is not able mentally to perceive of God's unity, spirituality,
> independence, immutability, eternity and immensity. Drawing from man's
> limited material existence and prejudice, those that deny these carnal
> doctrines conclude that these things are impossible in a material world
> and therefore illogically proclaim they do not exist. Humanly speaking,
> the supernatural acts of God are impossible for mortals in a material
> universe to understand.
>
> What so many fail to understand is that God is a supernatural Being. He is
> not limited to the restrictions of a material universe. God is Spirit and
> thus a supernatural Being that exists outside the universe. He, from the
> realm of His spiritual dimension called Heaven, drawing from His infinite
> power, created our material universe "exhilo," which means out of nothing.
> Being supernatural, which means being beyond material limitations, God,
> simply spoke the universe into being. That, too, is a reality we cannot
> comprehend. In our material world it is impossible to create something
> out of absolutely nothing. Yet, with God all things are possible.[15]
>
> No one can mistake that the Bible is a supernatural Book which reveals the
> supernatural works of God in creating and working with man through the
> ages. The Bible presents mankind with God's ultimate and supernatural
> plan; that man, by simple faith in Jesus Christ the Savior, can have
> forgiveness for sins from his Creator, receive eternal life, and receive
> the spiritual nature of God. Those who believe and receive Jesus Christ as
> their Savior become a part of Heaven.
>
> True Christians should not be frustrated because the world does not
> understand the clear teachings of the Bible. It is the ministry of God,
> the Holy Spirit, to reveal truth, but one cannot understand spiritual
> things until they are spiritually reborn. The beginning of wisdom is the
> fear of God. (See Prov. 9:10) That means accepting that He is who He is
> and humbling oneself to before Him as one's maker.
>
> The unbeliever, by his unbelief, rejects God and does not submit himself
> to God. He cannot understand the things of God because he does not have
> the capacity to do so. He has not truly accepted God and he is bound to
> his earthly and carnal understanding because he has not received the new
> nature of God and thereby has not become a "new man" in Christ Jesus. (See
> Eph. 4:24, Col. 3:10)
>
> God explains this in 1 Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth
> not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
> neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
>
>
>
> _________________
> Conclusion
>
> The carnal man has a false idea of God because he tries to liken God to
> being like himself and his material world. This limits one from
> understanding the reality of who God is. Further, man, instead of
> believing in our infinite Creator, invents degraded gods that are like
> himself.
>
> "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are
> clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his
> eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that,
> when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
> but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was
> darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed
> the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
> man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." (Romans
> 1:20-23)
>
> The mark of cults or false religions is that they all have gods who are
> made in man's image and are limited in power and existence to material
> limitations. (Also see Isa. 44:9-18)
>
> That is what Romans 1:21-23 says: "Because that, when they knew God, they
> glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their
> imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves
> to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible
> God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and
> fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." (Underline added)
>
> The false gods that men invent are always patterned after man himself or
> things he sees in nature. Some false religions go as far as to teach that
> God was a man or that men can become gods. In other words, they deify man.
> Deify means to make something a god and worship it. God says He created
> man . . . and it is foolishness to suggest that man created God. Yet, this
> is plainly what is done when Almighty God is said to be a man or that a
> finite man could become God. The perfect example of this absurd idea in
> found in Mormonism. How could a man, born into the universe that existed
> before he did, be the creator of himself and the universe? God, as
> Genesis 1 and 2 states, created all things. Man was created on the sixth
> day of the Creation week and was very last act of creation. It was God
> who created man.
>
> Most of mankind has no real idea of who God really is. The gods of
> unbelieving men are small and do not take into account the immensity of
> Almighty God as He is presented in the Bible. J.B. Phillips wrote a book
> in 1952 called, "Your God Is Too Small." He exposed the misconceptions
> that many have about God, in that their understanding of God superimposed
> upon Him human characteristics.[16] In His greatness and power the Bible
> says He spoke the universe into existence. God affirms this truth
> saying, "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the
> word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which
> do appear. " (Hebrews 11:3)
>
> Believing that God is a man or any material being shows one does not
> comprehend the true omnipotent (all powerful), omnipresent (present
> everywhere), omniscient (knows all things) nature of our sovereign God and
> Creator, nor does he bow in humility to his Creator. Like Satan, the lost
> man seeks to elevate himself to God's level and above. A man in denying
> the truth of the Trinity sets himself as God's judge and foolishly
> declares God cannot be what He says He is.
>
> Therefore, many men miss the truth and reality of God's essence because
> they ignorantly try to perceive Him as being as a physical being, as are
> they. God has revealed Himself to all men in His word, the Bible, and it
> would behoove all men to believe what their Creator has said about
> Himself. Paul stated God's mandate when addressing the unbelieving
> Athenians as recorded in Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God
> winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent."
>
> The Psalmist declared the unlimited greatest of God "By the word of the
> LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his
> mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth
> up the depth in storehouses." (Psalms 33:6-7)
>
> A person must understand the immensity of God and His power. Seeking to
> comprehend God one must take into account that he is not trying to
> understand that which is physical or material, but supernatural and beyond
> man's ability to comprehend. Not being able to comprehend God we must
> simply take Him at His word as to who He is.
>
> John said, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether
> they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
> Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus
> Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth
> not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
> spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even
> now already is it in the world" (1 John 4:1-3 ).
>
> The Bible without question affirms the plurality of God and the only way
> to understand God's plurality is to accept that God the Father, Son, and
> Holy Spirit are One God which establishes the Trinity. John's statement
> makes it absolutely vital that a person fully believe in the Trinity,
> which means to accept who and what God really truly is. To believe
> anything else is to believe in a false god that does not exist.
>
> Because all men are lost in sin, only our supernatural Creator can save
> this lost and dying world. Only by fully believing in our Creator and
> God's promise of salvation can one be saved and receive forgiveness of
> sins and eternal life. The truth of the Trinity is unconditionally tied to
> accepting Him as He is.
>
> (December 2001, September 2005, February, 2012, August 2013, January 2014)
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [1] 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the
> Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Some Bible
> critics have stated that this passage is not authentic because it is not
> found in some older manuscripts. This verse is found in mss, 61, 88mg,
> 629, 634mg, 636mg, omega 110, 429mg, 221, and 2318) along with two
> lectionaries (60, 173) and four fathers, Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine,
> and Jerome mention it. However, the biblical doctrine of the Trinity does
> not rest on one verse of Scripture, but is found throughout the Old and
> New Testaments. This verse accurately states the doctrine of the Trinity
> that God is One God in three Persons.
>
> [2] The word "scripture" graphe is found fifty-three times in the Bible.
>
> [3] Arianism is the heretical teaching of Arius ( AD 250-336), a
> Christian presbyter from Alexandria, Egypt, that Jesus did not always
> exist, but was created by God the Father.
>
> [4] This is the teaching of "monotheism" which means "one God."
>
> [5] R. Laird Harris; Gleason L. Archer; Jr; Bruce K Waltke, Theological
> Wordbook of the Old Testament, Chicago:Moody Press, 1980, p30.
>
> [6] Henry Clarence Thiessen, Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology,
> Eerdmans:Grand Rapids, 1949, p134.
>
> [7] Renald E. Showers, Israel My Glory, God is Triune, Friends of Israel,
> January/February 2002, p37.
>
> [8] The name "Elohim" the Bible calls God occurs only in Hebrew and in no
> other Semitic language.
>
> [9] "Thou shalt have no other gods before me(insert period)" (Exodus 20:3)
>
> [10] . John F. Walvoord, Matthew Thy Kingdom Come, Chicago:Moody Press,
> 1974, p20
>
> [11] Thiessen, p134.
>
> [12] "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do
> gender strifes." (2 Timothy 2:23)
>
> [13] David Cloud, Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible and Christianity,
> Computer Version 4.0, 2000. "Trinity."
>
> [14] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher
> than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:9)
>
> [15] "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is
> impossible; but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 1:51 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Can you explain the Trinity?
>
>
>>
>> Dear all, peace be with you.
>>
>>
>> When Christian Apologists attempt to explain the Trinitarian mystery,
>> they ordinarily endup confessing ancient heresies.
>>
>>
>> God has constantly been likened to apples and eggs.
>>
>>
>> Christian Apologists tend to equate its mystery to physical objects.
>>
>>
>> They aim to somehow clarify its vagueness.
>>
>>
>> Does the Trinity make any sense?
>>
>>
>> Does it stand up for scrutiny, or it conveniently crumbles under critical
>> examinations.
>>
>>
>> Well at its inception, let us be really fair in defining what the Trinity
>> is.
>>
>>
>> It is not three Gods as some people like to describe it in their unjust
>> strives to criticize the Christian faith.
>>
>>
>> So what is it then?
>>
>>
>> The Trinity is the belief in the Union of the Father, the Son, and the
>> Holy Spirit in a one godhead.
>>
>>
>> Although the term technically refers to the Judeo-Christian God, but we
>> will find that Orthodox Jews are explicitly declining the Trinitarian
>> conception.
>>
>>
>> In spite of their political controversy, but we will find that Muslims
>> and Jews have mutually apportioned their incredulity to the Trinity.
>>
>> Is the Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament?
>>
>> Is the word Trinity found in the New Testament?
>>
>> Had Abraham been ever informed about the Trinity?
>>
>> Had Moses been commanded to adhere the Trinity?
>>
>> Did he even auspicate for its forth coming?
>>
>> Christian Apologists have numerous methods to illustrate and justify the
>> Trinitarian doctronal tennet from their perspective but, I doubt they
>> will ever be adequate to convey its concept to others.
>>
>> It will everlastingly remain undecipherable, and Christians are utterly
>> accountable for their crucial insistence to verbalize this blasphemy.
>>
>> Every Sunday, Christians gather in congregations worldwide to
>> deliberately desecrate the divine being.
>>
>> I thank Allah for the grace of Islam, and enough of it as a bounty and
>> amplitude.
>>
>> All redemptions and atonements are merely belong to Allah glory be
>> to Him.
>>
>> I have Christian friends who ask me to pray for them, but I am afraid, I
>> never asked a Trinitarian for prayers.
>>
>> I am really sorry, but I cannot flatter on that regard.
>>
>> It is approximately the time to pray the noon prayer here in Cairo.
>>
>> I have to prepare myself.
>>
>> With all deference to the difference.
>>
>> Peace be with you.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
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