[Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs

Kirt via Faith-talk faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Thu May 15 21:56:30 UTC 2014 

Brandon,
I think it's important to remember that Socrates lived well over 2500 years ago and, like a certain jewish rabbi who shall remain nameless, there is good reason to be skeptical that we have his genuine original words. And, like I said, I admire the depiction of Socrates currently available to us very much. Still, I submit that there is a very big difference between examining your life with relentless scrutiny while admitting how ignorant you are when compared to the vast universe around us and denying the reality of the material world altogether. Forgive me for saying so, but from my subjective point of view you seem to go much farther than Socrates ever went or, near as I can see from the limited information I have, intended to go.
Best,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 15, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kirt,
> 
> Socrates is one of my idols. I think it takes a person of great courage to really do what he said fully. And of course he was killed for it, and no one who truly questions knowledge to the degree he did is ever popular. I suppose it depends on the person; some don’t care enough to really go through the process. But if we do, I think it can be nothing but beneficial.
> 
> Brandon
>> On May 15, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Kirt via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Brandon,
>> I actually think I'm more with Papa bear on this one… while I agree wholeheartedly with Socrates in principle I think one of the most beautiful things about the brief human life is our ability to discover what knowledge we can, feeble and insignificant though it doubtless is compared to what we do not know. Anyways, I feel like it might be time for me to bow out of this conversation before I subject myself of totally unnecessary ridicule and scorn. Constructive criticism is good; when we resort to ad hominem attacks and"balderdash", I fear the conversation has gone well beyond a place where it is anything close to productive.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 15, 2014, at 3:23 PM, justin williams via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you folks arguing or something; It sounds like Brandon tried to explain
>>> his belief system on a list which was supposed to be one shared by all
>>> faiths. The Christians have expressed their faith over and over,  slapped
>>> each other on the back and a mened ever sense I've been on this list.  Oh,
>>> and you have also piled onto anyone else who is not saying the exact same
>>> things you espouse.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Poppa
>>> Bear via Faith-talk
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:10 PM
>>> To: 'Brandon Olivares'; 'Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and
>>> religion'
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>> 
>>> Some of this logic cuts itself off at the feet and only goes so far. There
>>> is a story about an  Indian man who argued that we were all nothing as he
>>> taught a body of seekers, his argument was quite convincing. After the
>>> discussion when he went out and walked across a field a bull started to
>>> charge him and he started to run. One of the people at his talk yelled to
>>> him, "You don't need to run, the bull is really not there and pain is only
>>> in your mind." That is a belief than can go no further than the mind in my
>>> opinion, because once we step into the real world, we are faced with choices
>>> that we put our minds to almost every minute. If you said, "I need to go to
>>> the bathroom", and I said, that is simply a feeling that is not real, then
>>> you may think that this philosophy has felled in one small point. But if it
>>> works for you, then only you know how it fits your way of thinking and if it
>>> is an honest approach to your daily activity, or if you have to separate
>>> your beliefs from your real life.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
>>> Olivares via Faith-talk
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:10 PM
>>> To: Linda Mentink; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>> 
>>> I love to question. In my experience, nothing is true.
>>> On May 15, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> And God says in His Word, the Bible, that he resisteth the proud, but
>>> gives grace to the humble. Of course, it's fine to question many things, but
>>> not the Bible and your faith in God, if you have such. If you don't, that's
>>> good reason to question your beliefs.
>>>> 
>>>> Blessings,
>>>> 
>>>> Linda
>>>> 
>>>> At 02:37 PM 5/15/2014, you wrote:
>>>>> I think that questions can be good, but as a father of 7, I do find 
>>>>> that when my children are able to listen without questioning 
>>>>> everything I ask
>>> of
>>>>> them it brings a trust, an intimacy that is sometimes tattered by the
>>> twenty
>>>>> questions. As for me, being married, I will often do something for my
>>> wife
>>>>> simply because she asks me, I may think that it is silly, may want to 
>>>>> question her reasons, needs and all that, but simply doing, or 
>>>>> obeying
>>> does
>>>>> more to create the bond of love and trust that I think a marriage is
>>> built
>>>>> on than being a analytical owl about everything. Also, we will often
>>> pride
>>>>> ourselves on asking questions about something like faith, something 
>>>>> that demands a real commitment from us, but we will often swallow 
>>>>> whole the garbage in our culture, imitating much of it, desiring much 
>>>>> of it, or prematurely condemning it. Interesting stuff.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Kirt via Faith-talk
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:26 AM
>>>>> To: sheila; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>> 
>>>>> :-) I, for one, take pride in questioning everything. Even my questions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 12:38 PM, sheila via Faith-talk
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> hi Linda I am in complete agreement and am not interested in
>>> questioning
>>>>> my beliefs. They are based on the  word of god.
>>>>>>> On 5/15/2014 10:15 AM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do not question my beliefs, not since Christ came to live in me. 
>>>>>>> The
>>>>> Bible is my Guide for life. I receive many things from it, including 
>>>>> comfort, wisdom, assurance that I will spend eternity in heaven, and 
>>>>> knowledge of the Triune God.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Those who say they have accepted Christ as their personal Saviour, 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>> still continue to lie, cheat and steal, put too much emphasis on what
>>> they
>>>>> did. They have not repented of these sins, and, consequently, their 
>>>>> conversion is not real.
>>>>>>> True Christians abhor sin, and, with God's help, do their best to 
>>>>>>> live
>>> a
>>>>> different life than they did before Christ came to live in them. When
>>> they
>>>>> do sin, which all do, they are sorry, and ask God's forgiveness; and, 
>>>>> if necessary, and they have sinned against someone, they ask 
>>>>> forgiveness of that person. Many who think they are Christians will 
>>>>> be surprised when
>>> they
>>>>> meet God, and are turned away from Him to spend eternity in hell with
>>> Satan
>>>>> and his demons.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Christianity has been around since the beginning of creation. 
>>>>>>> Those
>>> who
>>>>> take God at His Word, and accept the free grace and forgiveness He
>>> offers,
>>>>> will spend their life after earthly death in eternity in Heaven with Him.
>>>>> Eastern religions and cults are man-made, and were made up not that 
>>>>> long
>>> ago
>>>>> by people who rejected God, didn't know about Him, or wanted to do 
>>>>> things their own way--which, I guess, is the same as rejecting God.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am sad for those who believe such nonsense, because their end, 
>>>>>>> no
>>>>> matter what they say, will be condemnation to the lake of fire, where 
>>>>> no relief will be had.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't mean to be harsh or offensive, but that's what the Bible 
>>>>>>> says
>>>>> concerning them, and I believe the Bible to be true. It is the 
>>>>> inspired
>>> Word
>>>>> of God. All it says will come to pass, if it hasn't already.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I will not question my beliefs, but will continue to stand on what 
>>>>>>> I
>>> know
>>>>> to be true in the Bible.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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