[Faith-talk] Faith-talk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 25

Thu Jan 1 02:54:21 UTC 2015

Isn't face and miracle two words that have personal definitions and can't really be wild to the tater lovely defined? What something maybe feel like a miracle to one may not feel like a miracle to me. To me perhaps getting an answerto a concern which requires my action may be a miracle to me where others would only consider a miracle if their diabetes was completely cured all of a sudden for example. We have to be careful when we talk about things like fademiracles. There's a lot of Mistry involved in faith and the whole religious Specktown. It's good to talk about it, but we all have to understand that everyone is not looking at things from the same perspective and respect that.i'll responses must look at things from this just in perspective yet still share our revelation or reflection.

Like St. Therese, little flower, I find miracles of the little things in life. So I always have faith in things not just getting better small ways day by day, but I never really lose perspective– – Often. We all get unfocused once in a while!

I wish wonderful and exciting 2015 to everyone and I hope you find miracles every day.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2014, at 6:00 AM, faith-talk-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: developmental delay among the blind (justin williams)
>   2. Re: developmental delay among the blind (Christine Olivares)
>   3. Re: developmental delay among the blind (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>   4. a distressing book (Devin Prater)
>   5. Re: developmental delay among the blind (Brandon A. Olivares)
>   6. Re: a distressing book (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>   7. Re: developmental delay among the blind (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>   8. Re: a distressing book (Devin Prater)
>   9. Re: a distressing book (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>  10. Re: a distressing book (Brandon A. Olivares)
>  11. Re: a distressing book (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>  12. Re: a distressing book (justin williams)
>  13. Re: a distressing book (Brandon A. Olivares)
>  14. Re: a distressing book (Brandon A. Olivares)
>  15. Re: a distressing book (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>  16. Re: a distressing book (Timothy Clark Ministries)
>  17. Re: a distressing book (qubit)
>  18. Re: a distressing book (qubit)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:11:22 -0500
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Timothy Clark Ministries'" <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>,
>    "'Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion'"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> Message-ID: <004701d023ef$0dff3790$29fda6b0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> It would seem that while he could have forced the healing, doing so against
> the individuals unbelief/ will  would be counter to his cause.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Timothy
> Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:04 AM
> To: Christine Olivares
> Cc: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> 
> lol. you speak of the end of a parable and you also don't understand. 
> 
> 
> 
> can i share with you something? 
> see verse 58. 
>  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
> now, it says not mighty works. 
> miracles were still done in that town. not many doesn't mean none at all
> for some reason or another though, they aren't in that particular chapter. 
> 
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:54, Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> No no, this is the Scripture where Jesus tried healing people in his own
> town and many were not healed because of their lack of faith. I do think the
> person being prayed for must have a tiny tiny bit of faith, if not hope. I'm
> not saying we have to "name it and claim it" nonsense, but I do think there
> is a wish for healing, at least, even if someone is a non-believer. As long
> as the person has some type of hope that's all that matters.
>> 
>> The Scripture Brandon referred to is Mat. 13:53-58. God bless,
>> 
>> Christine
>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> you are talking concerning the woman with the issue of blood. 
>>> just about every other time, the one praying for healing was the one in
> need of the faith. 
>>> there are times where faith is the factor for the one in need of their
> miracle. we all should have faith, absolutely. but if you are the one in
> need of healing and you aren't a believer, you can still be healed. 
>>> i've seen it. they then gain faith after receiving their miracle. 
>>> god bless
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:35, Brandon A. Olivares
> <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I disagree with this, in a purely Christian context. I recall the
> passage where Jesus tried to heal people, but barely any miracles happened
> because of their lack of faith. He always emphasized how important faith is,
> and told the sick that their faith has healed them. Kind of off-topic, but
> just wanted to respond to that.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> it's never been the faith of the sick that's gotten someone healed.
> it's always been the person praying for the one in need of healing. they are
> the ones with the need for the faith. jesus when he healed had faith that
> whatever he said would occur. same with peter. he had faith in jesus and
> healed the blind man. 
>>>>> often times, people pray just to pray without the faith to create the
> object of their desired goal. 
>>>>> praying in faith is when prayers are answered. it's as if you are
> swimming down stream. however, on the other hand praying without faith is
> like swimming against a rip current. dang near impossible and 9 times out of
> 10, you don't survive it. 
>>>>> same deal here. 
>>>>> if someone want's to pray for me, you are more than welcome but you had
> best have faith. otherwise, you might as well not pray at all. 
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 16:19, Andrew via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the one thing is we need to allow god to help us over come this 
>>>>>> developmental delay and  embrace the challenges.  The thing is 
>>>>>> this the professionals are certainly not god that is for sure  and 
>>>>>> can we believe everything they say that is the thing i really don't
> know i
>>>>>> guess  bottom line is this what do they base their facts on   because
>>>>>> a text book can be wrong.  but we know god is correct in my 
>>>>>> personal opinion. I also feel that there can also be so many miss 
>>>>>> understandings which does tie in to people for example trying to 
>>>>>> pray blindness out of you.  there may be miss understandings in 
>>>>>> both those areas  they both have things in common  as we as  blind 
>>>>>> people could be interperited as having very little faith if people  
>>>>>> for example pray over us and we don't get healed things like that  
>>>>>> and a things could also be miss interperited to be a developmental 
>>>>>> delay but i also feel that  need to be on the ready and not be 
>>>>>> taken off guard as to if somebody wants to pray it out of you how 
>>>>>> you are going to handle it or how you will be able to address it 
>>>>>> if these things come our way  allot is that  educating needs to happen
> as well to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/29/14, Beth Taurasi via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>>>>>> Well said.  I was told I had "developmental delays", and so has 
>>>>>>> my boyfriend who is also lifelong blind.  We're born this way, 
>>>>>>> but we do things differently.  It's bad enough you have lost the 
>>>>>>> ability to read social cues, and I was also diagnosed as 80% 
>>>>>>> likely Asperger's, now known as high functioning autism.  Um, really!
>>>>>>> \BethOn 12/29/2014 1:16 PM, Poppa Bear via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Andrew, this is purely my very limited personal 
>>>>>>>> observation. I have noticed that people who have been blind from 
>>>>>>>> birth or shortly after do have different social skills that may 
>>>>>>>> cause people to think that there is a type of developmental 
>>>>>>>> delay. I am not sure if it is because of the lack of 
>>>>>>>> understanding visual Q's that accompany a lot of social 
>>>>>>>> interactions that some lifelong blind people have that sometimes 
>>>>>>>> cause a noticeable difference when interacting with people in 
>>>>>>>> certain situations, perhaps this factor can play a role in how 
>>>>>>>> people perceive the behavior of some blind individuals.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> wouldn't take it to heart though, it isn't a thing that makes a 
>>>>>>>> person wrong or bad, just different and being different is part 
>>>>>>>> of being alive. Some people have big feet, big noses that they 
>>>>>>>> hate, squeaky voices, small body parts that they want enlarged, 
>>>>>>>> skin that they wish were darker or lighter, but we all make this 
>>>>>>>> ball of mud go round and weren't made to look or act like 
>>>>>>>> clones. Some things are simply not in our control, so I think 
>>>>>>>> that it helps to focus on the things that we can control and we 
>>>>>>>> will find a happy balance in our lives.
>>>>>>>> Take care, and again, this is simply my observations, not some 
>>>>>>>> scientific or social study.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] developmental delay amung the blind
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi brothers and sisters in christ  just have a question. I am 
>>>>>>>> just wondering if developmental delay is quite common amung the 
>>>>>>>> blind?  or is  it not a common thing.  I  was told by somebody 
>>>>>>>> that has  works with the disabled locally that has done acessmen 
>>>>>>>> with me and i was told i have slight developmental delay.  would 
>>>>>>>> people say that just for the sake of saying that or is this a 
>>>>>>>> common thing amung the blind.
>>>>>>>> i am trying to ask around about it.  e  even if i do have it i 
>>>>>>>> can praise the lord no matter what.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4
>>>>>>>> real%40gmail
>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/denverqu
>>>>>>>> een1107%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can 
>>>>>>> reach me by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/andrewjed
>>>>>>> g%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothycla
>>>>>> rkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2
>>>>> 188%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rafael4490%40
>>> gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> mail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:50:37 -0500
> From: Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com>
> To: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> Message-ID: <3C89C21E-D052-4603-95DC-F87304FC970B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=windows-1252
> 
> But many many more works could have been done though. The people either didn?t trust Him or thought he was nuts. So yes, the people did force him not to do miracles because of their unbelief. I would go so far as to say they thought he was going mad and thought what he was doing to be fake or a complete quack. It?s one thing to be open minded and skeptical, but, to me, it seems like they just wanted to laugh.
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:03 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> lol. you speak of the end of a parable and you also don?t understand. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> can i share with you something? 
>> see verse 58. 
>>  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
>> now, it says not mighty works. 
>> miracles were still done in that town. not many doesn?t mean none at all for some reason or another though, they aren?t in that particular chapter. 
>> 
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:54, Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com <mailto:rafael4490 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No no, this is the Scripture where Jesus tried healing people in his own town and many were not healed because of their lack of faith. I do think the person being prayed for must have a tiny tiny bit of faith, if not hope. I?m not saying we have to ?name it and claim it? nonsense, but I do think there is a wish for healing, at least, even if someone is a non-believer. As long as the person has some type of hope that?s all that matters.
>>> 
>>> The Scripture Brandon referred to is Mat. 13:53-58. God bless,
>>> 
>>> Christine
>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:faith-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> you are talking concerning the woman with the issue of blood. 
>>>> just about every other time, the one praying for healing was the one in need of the faith. 
>>>> there are times where faith is the factor for the one in need of their miracle. we all should have faith, absolutely. but if you are the one in need of healing and you aren?t a believer, you can still be healed. 
>>>> i?ve seen it. they then gain faith after receiving their miracle. 
>>>> god bless
>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:35, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com <mailto:programmer2188 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I disagree with this, in a purely Christian context. I recall the passage where Jesus tried to heal people, but barely any miracles happened because of their lack of faith. He always emphasized how important faith is, and told the sick that their faith has healed them. Kind of off-topic, but just wanted to respond to that.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:faith-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> it?s never been the faith of the sick that?s gotten someone healed. it?s always been the person praying for the one in need of healing. they are the ones with the need for the faith. jesus when he healed had faith that whatever he said would occur. same with peter. he had faith in jesus and healed the blind man. 
>>>>>> often times, people pray just to pray without the faith to create the object of their desired goal. 
>>>>>> praying in faith is when prayers are answered. it?s as if you are swimming down stream. however, on the other hand praying without faith is like swimming against a rip current. dang near impossible and 9 times out of 10, you don?t survive it. 
>>>>>> same deal here. 
>>>>>> if someone want?s to pray for me, you are more than welcome but you had best have faith. otherwise, you might as well not pray at all. 
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 16:19, Andrew via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the one thing is we need to allow god to help us over come this
>>>>>>> developmental delay and  embrace the challenges.  The thing is this
>>>>>>> the professionals are certainly not god that is for sure  and can we
>>>>>>> believe everything they say that is the thing i really don't know i
>>>>>>> guess  bottom line is this what do they base their facts on   because
>>>>>>> a text book can be wrong.  but we know god is correct in my personal
>>>>>>> opinion. I also feel that there can also be so many miss
>>>>>>> understandings which does tie in to people for example trying to pray
>>>>>>> blindness out of you.  there may be miss understandings in both those
>>>>>>> areas  they both have things in common  as we as  blind people could
>>>>>>> be interperited as having very little faith if people  for example
>>>>>>> pray over us and we don't get healed things like that  and a things
>>>>>>> could also be miss interperited to be a developmental delay but i also
>>>>>>> feel that  need to be on the ready and not be taken off guard as to if
>>>>>>> somebody wants to pray it out of you how you are going to handle it or
>>>>>>> how you will be able to address it if these things come our way  allot
>>>>>>> is that  educating needs to happen as well to.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/29/14, Beth Taurasi via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well said.  I was told I had "developmental delays", and so has my
>>>>>>>> boyfriend who is also lifelong blind.  We're born this way, but we do
>>>>>>>> things differently.  It's bad enough you have lost the ability to read
>>>>>>>> social cues, and I was also diagnosed as 80% likely Asperger's, now
>>>>>>>> known as high functioning autism.  Um, really!
>>>>>>>> \BethOn 12/29/2014 1:16 PM, Poppa Bear via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Andrew, this is purely my very limited personal observation. I have
>>>>>>>>> noticed that people who have been blind from birth or shortly after do
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> different social skills that may cause people to think that there is a
>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> of developmental delay. I am not sure if it is because of the lack of
>>>>>>>>> understanding visual Q's that accompany a lot of social interactions that
>>>>>>>>> some lifelong blind people have that sometimes cause a noticeable
>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>> when interacting with people in certain situations, perhaps this factor
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> play a role in how people perceive the behavior of some blind individuals.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't take it to heart though, it isn't a thing that makes a person
>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>> or bad, just different and being different is part of being alive. Some
>>>>>>>>> people have big feet, big noses that they hate, squeaky voices, small
>>>>>>>>> body
>>>>>>>>> parts that they want enlarged, skin that they wish were darker or
>>>>>>>>> lighter,
>>>>>>>>> but we all make this ball of mud go round and weren't made to look or act
>>>>>>>>> like clones. Some things are simply not in our control, so I think that
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> helps to focus on the things that we can control and we will find a happy
>>>>>>>>> balance in our lives.
>>>>>>>>> Take care, and again, this is simply my observations, not some scientific
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> social study.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>> via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] developmental delay amung the blind
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi brothers and sisters in christ  just have a question. I am just
>>>>>>>>> wondering
>>>>>>>>> if developmental delay is quite common amung the blind?  or is  it not a
>>>>>>>>> common thing.  I  was told by somebody that has  works with the disabled
>>>>>>>>> locally that has done acessmen with me and i was told i have slight
>>>>>>>>> developmental delay.  would people say that just for the sake of saying
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> or is this a common thing amung the blind.
>>>>>>>>> i am trying to ask around about it.  e  even if i do have it i can praise
>>>>>>>>> the lord no matter what.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4real%40gmail
>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me
>>>>>>>> by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:Faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rafael4490%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:52:38 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> Message-ID: <C2EADA32-63F1-4DC5-AB8F-71164C22B991 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> justin - 
> you could argue that it wasn?t their time. 
> i argue this however. 
> this was during a time when jesus was seeing lodes of opposition from the Pharisees. 
> at this point in christ?s ministry, we see him incorporate parables. 
> it?s interesting because In chapter 13, Matthew recorded eight parables of the lord jesus christ. The word parable means ?a comparison? or ?a setting side by side. 
> i don?t believe that he healed nobody in that passage. we?re told he didn?t do many miracles. he did heal. it?s not that he couldn?t heal. he certainly was able and did heal even there. 
> anyone who says otherwise isn?t studied in scripture.
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 0:11, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It would seem that while he could have forced the healing, doing so against
>> the individuals unbelief/ will  would be counter to his cause.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Timothy
>> Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:04 AM
>> To: Christine Olivares
>> Cc: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
>> 
>> lol. you speak of the end of a parable and you also don't understand. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> can i share with you something? 
>> see verse 58. 
>> And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
>> now, it says not mighty works. 
>> miracles were still done in that town. not many doesn't mean none at all
>> for some reason or another though, they aren't in that particular chapter. 
>> 
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>> 
>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:54, Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> No no, this is the Scripture where Jesus tried healing people in his own
>> town and many were not healed because of their lack of faith. I do think the
>> person being prayed for must have a tiny tiny bit of faith, if not hope. I'm
>> not saying we have to "name it and claim it" nonsense, but I do think there
>> is a wish for healing, at least, even if someone is a non-believer. As long
>> as the person has some type of hope that's all that matters.
>>> 
>>> The Scripture Brandon referred to is Mat. 13:53-58. God bless,
>>> 
>>> Christine
>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> you are talking concerning the woman with the issue of blood. 
>>>> just about every other time, the one praying for healing was the one in
>> need of the faith. 
>>>> there are times where faith is the factor for the one in need of their
>> miracle. we all should have faith, absolutely. but if you are the one in
>> need of healing and you aren't a believer, you can still be healed. 
>>>> i've seen it. they then gain faith after receiving their miracle. 
>>>> god bless
>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:35, Brandon A. Olivares
>> <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I disagree with this, in a purely Christian context. I recall the
>> passage where Jesus tried to heal people, but barely any miracles happened
>> because of their lack of faith. He always emphasized how important faith is,
>> and told the sick that their faith has healed them. Kind of off-topic, but
>> just wanted to respond to that.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> it's never been the faith of the sick that's gotten someone healed.
>> it's always been the person praying for the one in need of healing. they are
>> the ones with the need for the faith. jesus when he healed had faith that
>> whatever he said would occur. same with peter. he had faith in jesus and
>> healed the blind man. 
>>>>>> often times, people pray just to pray without the faith to create the
>> object of their desired goal. 
>>>>>> praying in faith is when prayers are answered. it's as if you are
>> swimming down stream. however, on the other hand praying without faith is
>> like swimming against a rip current. dang near impossible and 9 times out of
>> 10, you don't survive it. 
>>>>>> same deal here. 
>>>>>> if someone want's to pray for me, you are more than welcome but you had
>> best have faith. otherwise, you might as well not pray at all. 
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 16:19, Andrew via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the one thing is we need to allow god to help us over come this 
>>>>>>> developmental delay and  embrace the challenges.  The thing is 
>>>>>>> this the professionals are certainly not god that is for sure  and 
>>>>>>> can we believe everything they say that is the thing i really don't
>> know i
>>>>>>> guess  bottom line is this what do they base their facts on   because
>>>>>>> a text book can be wrong.  but we know god is correct in my 
>>>>>>> personal opinion. I also feel that there can also be so many miss 
>>>>>>> understandings which does tie in to people for example trying to 
>>>>>>> pray blindness out of you.  there may be miss understandings in 
>>>>>>> both those areas  they both have things in common  as we as  blind 
>>>>>>> people could be interperited as having very little faith if people  
>>>>>>> for example pray over us and we don't get healed things like that  
>>>>>>> and a things could also be miss interperited to be a developmental 
>>>>>>> delay but i also feel that  need to be on the ready and not be 
>>>>>>> taken off guard as to if somebody wants to pray it out of you how 
>>>>>>> you are going to handle it or how you will be able to address it 
>>>>>>> if these things come our way  allot is that  educating needs to happen
>> as well to.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12/29/14, Beth Taurasi via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well said.  I was told I had "developmental delays", and so has 
>>>>>>>> my boyfriend who is also lifelong blind.  We're born this way, 
>>>>>>>> but we do things differently.  It's bad enough you have lost the 
>>>>>>>> ability to read social cues, and I was also diagnosed as 80% 
>>>>>>>> likely Asperger's, now known as high functioning autism.  Um, really!
>>>>>>>> \BethOn 12/29/2014 1:16 PM, Poppa Bear via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Andrew, this is purely my very limited personal 
>>>>>>>>> observation. I have noticed that people who have been blind from 
>>>>>>>>> birth or shortly after do have different social skills that may 
>>>>>>>>> cause people to think that there is a type of developmental 
>>>>>>>>> delay. I am not sure if it is because of the lack of 
>>>>>>>>> understanding visual Q's that accompany a lot of social 
>>>>>>>>> interactions that some lifelong blind people have that sometimes 
>>>>>>>>> cause a noticeable difference when interacting with people in 
>>>>>>>>> certain situations, perhaps this factor can play a role in how 
>>>>>>>>> people perceive the behavior of some blind individuals.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't take it to heart though, it isn't a thing that makes a 
>>>>>>>>> person wrong or bad, just different and being different is part 
>>>>>>>>> of being alive. Some people have big feet, big noses that they 
>>>>>>>>> hate, squeaky voices, small body parts that they want enlarged, 
>>>>>>>>> skin that they wish were darker or lighter, but we all make this 
>>>>>>>>> ball of mud go round and weren't made to look or act like 
>>>>>>>>> clones. Some things are simply not in our control, so I think 
>>>>>>>>> that it helps to focus on the things that we can control and we 
>>>>>>>>> will find a happy balance in our lives.
>>>>>>>>> Take care, and again, this is simply my observations, not some 
>>>>>>>>> scientific or social study.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] developmental delay amung the blind
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi brothers and sisters in christ  just have a question. I am 
>>>>>>>>> just wondering if developmental delay is quite common amung the 
>>>>>>>>> blind?  or is  it not a common thing.  I  was told by somebody 
>>>>>>>>> that has  works with the disabled locally that has done acessmen 
>>>>>>>>> with me and i was told i have slight developmental delay.  would 
>>>>>>>>> people say that just for the sake of saying that or is this a 
>>>>>>>>> common thing amung the blind.
>>>>>>>>> i am trying to ask around about it.  e  even if i do have it i 
>>>>>>>>> can praise the lord no matter what.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4
>>>>>>>>> real%40gmail
>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/denverqu
>>>>>>>>> een1107%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can 
>>>>>>>> reach me by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/andrewjed
>>>>>>>> g%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothycla
>>>>>>> rkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2
>>>>>> 188%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rafael4490%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40g
>> mail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:00:55 -0600
> From: Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com>
> To: for the discussion of faith and religion Faith-talk
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <E05EB120-B6C2-4371-8F37-D5EEDDA68516 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:03:05 -0500
> From: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> To: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> Message-ID: <2E2E6DAF-9AE6-454C-9D1D-2304E58A33B9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=windows-1252
> 
> And what citation do you have that ?mighty works? and ?miracles? are somehow different, or that he did in fact perform many miracles there? It says right there the reason he did not do ?mighty works? or whatever that particular version calls them. It was because ?they did not believe.? Pretty clear.
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:03 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> lol. you speak of the end of a parable and you also don?t understand. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> can i share with you something? 
>> see verse 58. 
>>  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
>> now, it says not mighty works. 
>> miracles were still done in that town. not many doesn?t mean none at all for some reason or another though, they aren?t in that particular chapter. 
>> 
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:54, Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com <mailto:rafael4490 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No no, this is the Scripture where Jesus tried healing people in his own town and many were not healed because of their lack of faith. I do think the person being prayed for must have a tiny tiny bit of faith, if not hope. I?m not saying we have to ?name it and claim it? nonsense, but I do think there is a wish for healing, at least, even if someone is a non-believer. As long as the person has some type of hope that?s all that matters.
>>> 
>>> The Scripture Brandon referred to is Mat. 13:53-58. God bless,
>>> 
>>> Christine
>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:faith-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> you are talking concerning the woman with the issue of blood. 
>>>> just about every other time, the one praying for healing was the one in need of the faith. 
>>>> there are times where faith is the factor for the one in need of their miracle. we all should have faith, absolutely. but if you are the one in need of healing and you aren?t a believer, you can still be healed. 
>>>> i?ve seen it. they then gain faith after receiving their miracle. 
>>>> god bless
>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:35, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com <mailto:programmer2188 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I disagree with this, in a purely Christian context. I recall the passage where Jesus tried to heal people, but barely any miracles happened because of their lack of faith. He always emphasized how important faith is, and told the sick that their faith has healed them. Kind of off-topic, but just wanted to respond to that.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:faith-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> it?s never been the faith of the sick that?s gotten someone healed. it?s always been the person praying for the one in need of healing. they are the ones with the need for the faith. jesus when he healed had faith that whatever he said would occur. same with peter. he had faith in jesus and healed the blind man. 
>>>>>> often times, people pray just to pray without the faith to create the object of their desired goal. 
>>>>>> praying in faith is when prayers are answered. it?s as if you are swimming down stream. however, on the other hand praying without faith is like swimming against a rip current. dang near impossible and 9 times out of 10, you don?t survive it. 
>>>>>> same deal here. 
>>>>>> if someone want?s to pray for me, you are more than welcome but you had best have faith. otherwise, you might as well not pray at all. 
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com <http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 16:19, Andrew via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the one thing is we need to allow god to help us over come this
>>>>>>> developmental delay and  embrace the challenges.  The thing is this
>>>>>>> the professionals are certainly not god that is for sure  and can we
>>>>>>> believe everything they say that is the thing i really don't know i
>>>>>>> guess  bottom line is this what do they base their facts on   because
>>>>>>> a text book can be wrong.  but we know god is correct in my personal
>>>>>>> opinion. I also feel that there can also be so many miss
>>>>>>> understandings which does tie in to people for example trying to pray
>>>>>>> blindness out of you.  there may be miss understandings in both those
>>>>>>> areas  they both have things in common  as we as  blind people could
>>>>>>> be interperited as having very little faith if people  for example
>>>>>>> pray over us and we don't get healed things like that  and a things
>>>>>>> could also be miss interperited to be a developmental delay but i also
>>>>>>> feel that  need to be on the ready and not be taken off guard as to if
>>>>>>> somebody wants to pray it out of you how you are going to handle it or
>>>>>>> how you will be able to address it if these things come our way  allot
>>>>>>> is that  educating needs to happen as well to.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/29/14, Beth Taurasi via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well said.  I was told I had "developmental delays", and so has my
>>>>>>>> boyfriend who is also lifelong blind.  We're born this way, but we do
>>>>>>>> things differently.  It's bad enough you have lost the ability to read
>>>>>>>> social cues, and I was also diagnosed as 80% likely Asperger's, now
>>>>>>>> known as high functioning autism.  Um, really!
>>>>>>>> \BethOn 12/29/2014 1:16 PM, Poppa Bear via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Andrew, this is purely my very limited personal observation. I have
>>>>>>>>> noticed that people who have been blind from birth or shortly after do
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> different social skills that may cause people to think that there is a
>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> of developmental delay. I am not sure if it is because of the lack of
>>>>>>>>> understanding visual Q's that accompany a lot of social interactions that
>>>>>>>>> some lifelong blind people have that sometimes cause a noticeable
>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>> when interacting with people in certain situations, perhaps this factor
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> play a role in how people perceive the behavior of some blind individuals.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't take it to heart though, it isn't a thing that makes a person
>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>> or bad, just different and being different is part of being alive. Some
>>>>>>>>> people have big feet, big noses that they hate, squeaky voices, small
>>>>>>>>> body
>>>>>>>>> parts that they want enlarged, skin that they wish were darker or
>>>>>>>>> lighter,
>>>>>>>>> but we all make this ball of mud go round and weren't made to look or act
>>>>>>>>> like clones. Some things are simply not in our control, so I think that
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> helps to focus on the things that we can control and we will find a happy
>>>>>>>>> balance in our lives.
>>>>>>>>> Take care, and again, this is simply my observations, not some scientific
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> social study.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>> via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] developmental delay amung the blind
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi brothers and sisters in christ  just have a question. I am just
>>>>>>>>> wondering
>>>>>>>>> if developmental delay is quite common amung the blind?  or is  it not a
>>>>>>>>> common thing.  I  was told by somebody that has  works with the disabled
>>>>>>>>> locally that has done acessmen with me and i was told i have slight
>>>>>>>>> developmental delay.  would people say that just for the sake of saying
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> or is this a common thing amung the blind.
>>>>>>>>> i am trying to ask around about it.  e  even if i do have it i can praise
>>>>>>>>> the lord no matter what.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4real%40gmail
>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me
>>>>>>>> by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:Faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rafael4490%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:08:05 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com>, "Faith-talk,    for the
>    discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <344DF32D-DEAC-4C43-8E24-760D3ADA708C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> dismiss it. 
> i say this for one reason. 
> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:08:36 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] developmental delay among the blind
> Message-ID: <E74569D5-6A51-456D-BAAB-BAD243D26E19 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=windows-1252
> 
> let?s see, you forget the word ?many."
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:03, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> And what citation do you have that ?mighty works? and ?miracles? are somehow different, or that he did in fact perform many miracles there? It says right there the reason he did not do ?mighty works? or whatever that particular version calls them. It was because ?they did not believe.? Pretty clear.
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:03 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> lol. you speak of the end of a parable and you also don?t understand. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> can i share with you something? 
>>> see verse 58. 
>>>  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
>>> now, it says not mighty works. 
>>> miracles were still done in that town. not many doesn?t mean none at all for some reason or another though, they aren?t in that particular chapter. 
>>> 
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:54, Christine Olivares <rafael4490 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> No no, this is the Scripture where Jesus tried healing people in his own town and many were not healed because of their lack of faith. I do think the person being prayed for must have a tiny tiny bit of faith, if not hope. I?m not saying we have to ?name it and claim it? nonsense, but I do think there is a wish for healing, at least, even if someone is a non-believer. As long as the person has some type of hope that?s all that matters.
>>>> 
>>>> The Scripture Brandon referred to is Mat. 13:53-58. God bless,
>>>> 
>>>> Christine
>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> you are talking concerning the woman with the issue of blood. 
>>>>> just about every other time, the one praying for healing was the one in need of the faith. 
>>>>> there are times where faith is the factor for the one in need of their miracle. we all should have faith, absolutely. but if you are the one in need of healing and you aren?t a believer, you can still be healed. 
>>>>> i?ve seen it. they then gain faith after receiving their miracle. 
>>>>> god bless
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 23:35, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I disagree with this, in a purely Christian context. I recall the passage where Jesus tried to heal people, but barely any miracles happened because of their lack of faith. He always emphasized how important faith is, and told the sick that their faith has healed them. Kind of off-topic, but just wanted to respond to that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> it?s never been the faith of the sick that?s gotten someone healed. it?s always been the person praying for the one in need of healing. they are the ones with the need for the faith. jesus when he healed had faith that whatever he said would occur. same with peter. he had faith in jesus and healed the blind man. 
>>>>>>> often times, people pray just to pray without the faith to create the object of their desired goal. 
>>>>>>> praying in faith is when prayers are answered. it?s as if you are swimming down stream. however, on the other hand praying without faith is like swimming against a rip current. dang near impossible and 9 times out of 10, you don?t survive it. 
>>>>>>> same deal here. 
>>>>>>> if someone want?s to pray for me, you are more than welcome but you had best have faith. otherwise, you might as well not pray at all. 
>>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tevet 7, 5775 AM, at 16:19, Andrew via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> the one thing is we need to allow god to help us over come this
>>>>>>>> developmental delay and  embrace the challenges.  The thing is this
>>>>>>>> the professionals are certainly not god that is for sure  and can we
>>>>>>>> believe everything they say that is the thing i really don't know i
>>>>>>>> guess  bottom line is this what do they base their facts on   because
>>>>>>>> a text book can be wrong.  but we know god is correct in my personal
>>>>>>>> opinion. I also feel that there can also be so many miss
>>>>>>>> understandings which does tie in to people for example trying to pray
>>>>>>>> blindness out of you.  there may be miss understandings in both those
>>>>>>>> areas  they both have things in common  as we as  blind people could
>>>>>>>> be interperited as having very little faith if people  for example
>>>>>>>> pray over us and we don't get healed things like that  and a things
>>>>>>>> could also be miss interperited to be a developmental delay but i also
>>>>>>>> feel that  need to be on the ready and not be taken off guard as to if
>>>>>>>> somebody wants to pray it out of you how you are going to handle it or
>>>>>>>> how you will be able to address it if these things come our way  allot
>>>>>>>> is that  educating needs to happen as well to.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 12/29/14, Beth Taurasi via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Well said.  I was told I had "developmental delays", and so has my
>>>>>>>>> boyfriend who is also lifelong blind.  We're born this way, but we do
>>>>>>>>> things differently.  It's bad enough you have lost the ability to read
>>>>>>>>> social cues, and I was also diagnosed as 80% likely Asperger's, now
>>>>>>>>> known as high functioning autism.  Um, really!
>>>>>>>>> \BethOn 12/29/2014 1:16 PM, Poppa Bear via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Andrew, this is purely my very limited personal observation. I have
>>>>>>>>>> noticed that people who have been blind from birth or shortly after do
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> different social skills that may cause people to think that there is a
>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>> of developmental delay. I am not sure if it is because of the lack of
>>>>>>>>>> understanding visual Q's that accompany a lot of social interactions that
>>>>>>>>>> some lifelong blind people have that sometimes cause a noticeable
>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>> when interacting with people in certain situations, perhaps this factor
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> play a role in how people perceive the behavior of some blind individuals.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't take it to heart though, it isn't a thing that makes a person
>>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>>> or bad, just different and being different is part of being alive. Some
>>>>>>>>>> people have big feet, big noses that they hate, squeaky voices, small
>>>>>>>>>> body
>>>>>>>>>> parts that they want enlarged, skin that they wish were darker or
>>>>>>>>>> lighter,
>>>>>>>>>> but we all make this ball of mud go round and weren't made to look or act
>>>>>>>>>> like clones. Some things are simply not in our control, so I think that
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> helps to focus on the things that we can control and we will find a happy
>>>>>>>>>> balance in our lives.
>>>>>>>>>> Take care, and again, this is simply my observations, not some scientific
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> social study.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>>> via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Faith-talk] developmental delay amung the blind
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi brothers and sisters in christ  just have a question. I am just
>>>>>>>>>> wondering
>>>>>>>>>> if developmental delay is quite common amung the blind?  or is  it not a
>>>>>>>>>> common thing.  I  was told by somebody that has  works with the disabled
>>>>>>>>>> locally that has done acessmen with me and i was told i have slight
>>>>>>>>>> developmental delay.  would people say that just for the sake of saying
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> or is this a common thing amung the blind.
>>>>>>>>>> i am trying to ask around about it.  e  even if i do have it i can praise
>>>>>>>>>> the lord no matter what.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4real%40gmail
>>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me
>>>>>>>>> by skype at denverqueen0920
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rafael4490%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:15:55 -0600
> From: Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com>
> To: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <0CDD4C05-80F7-4927-9686-48C916CA9018 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Thank you so much.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> dismiss it. 
>> i say this for one reason. 
>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>> 
>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:20:25 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <4E010502-D3D1-4591-B976-E8977E2ABDAF at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> not a problem. 
> it certainly makes you more well rounded but for most it provides headaches. 
> i?m regularly in debates with nonchristians do to the organazation i?m ordained through. 
> they accept everyone and that?s a good thing to some people, for most that?s bad. for me, i think it?s a good thing because again, it makes everyone involved in their organization  respectful of others knowing that their are christians and muslims and jews in the same organazation. as i?ve stated, this isn?t for everyone just as the searching non biblical books aren?t for everyone. 
> i?ve gone down both roads and i feel i?m a better person for it. i guess my question to you is do you feel you wish to traverse those same paths.
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:15, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you so much.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> dismiss it. 
>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:32:00 -0500
> From: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> To: Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater at gmail.com>, "Faith-talk,    for the
>    discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <DEB89E9E-390F-450B-AF1D-E48CE6D0CC88 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Devin,
> 
> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
> 
> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
> 
> Brandon
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you so much.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> dismiss it. 
>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:35:18 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <37AEBB2A-2E79-4EC7-88DD-A70971B9D551 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of? would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in other words you find your own ?personal truth.? 
> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of proportion to the truth. the truth isn?t what you make it. the truth is the thing that?s staring you all in the face. read the bible. god?s word. .
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Devin,
>> 
>> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>> 
>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
>> 
>> Brandon
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:38:59 -0500
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Timothy Clark Ministries'" <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>,
>    "'Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion'"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <008101d023fb$4b68d7b0$e23a8710$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Timothy, that would be your truth, and for you, that works.  It may not work
> for everyone. Or, the person may interpret the bible differently than you.
> There are several thousand sexts of Christianity alone, and most of them
> think the rest are doing it incorrectly.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Timothy
> Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:35 AM
> To: Brandon A. Olivares
> Cc: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> 
> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of?
> would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in
> other words you find your own "personal truth." 
> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of
> proportion to the truth. the truth isn't what you make it. the truth is the
> thing that's staring you all in the face. read the bible. god's word. .
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Devin,
>> 
>> I think it's important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn't
> want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for
> themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>> 
>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can't
> just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to
> figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old,
> and I don't think it really ever ends.
>> 
>> Brandon
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries
> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>> you'll confuse yourself. you'll give yourself more questions and you'll
> go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent
> enough, you'll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental
> faculties. 
>>>> i've been there, done that. because i've done it i can argue against
> just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to
> follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue,
> be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>> i say give it up if you don't want to go through it. like i said, i've
> been there, i've done that..  
>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and
> looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure.
> First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and
> even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me
> wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon
> emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for
> Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while
> the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not
> live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit
> Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give
> more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that
> all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is
> rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that
> Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without
> the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about
> learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing
> that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree
> with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels,
> not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or
> should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as
> happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>>>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministri
> es%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gma
> il.com
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40g
> mail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:40:57 -0500
> From: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> To: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <56021DCF-B87B-4E9E-AFCD-EBFDCC994DDD at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> I think there?s one truth, that all must find. I don?t think it?s equivalent to the Bible, but that?s each person?s journey to find out.
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:35 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of? would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in other words you find your own ?personal truth.? 
>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of proportion to the truth. the truth isn?t what you make it. the truth is the thing that?s staring you all in the face. read the bible. god?s word. .
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>> 
>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Devin,
>>> 
>>> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>> 
>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
>>> 
>>> Brandon
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>>>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:41:54 -0500
> From: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> To: justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>, "Faith-talk,    for the
>    discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <5F880449-680B-44DC-8B0F-535DC0E456B9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> This. Couldn?t have said it better.
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:38 AM, justin williams via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Timothy, that would be your truth, and for you, that works.  It may not work
>> for everyone. Or, the person may interpret the bible differently than you.
>> There are several thousand sexts of Christianity alone, and most of them
>> think the rest are doing it incorrectly.  
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Timothy
>> Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:35 AM
>> To: Brandon A. Olivares
>> Cc: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
>> 
>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of?
>> would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in
>> other words you find your own "personal truth." 
>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of
>> proportion to the truth. the truth isn't what you make it. the truth is the
>> thing that's staring you all in the face. read the bible. god's word. .
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Devin,
>>> 
>>> I think it's important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn't
>> want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for
>> themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>> 
>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can't
>> just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to
>> figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old,
>> and I don't think it really ever ends.
>>> 
>>> Brandon
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries
>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>>> you'll confuse yourself. you'll give yourself more questions and you'll
>> go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent
>> enough, you'll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental
>> faculties. 
>>>>> i've been there, done that. because i've done it i can argue against
>> just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to
>> follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue,
>> be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>>> i say give it up if you don't want to go through it. like i said, i've
>> been there, i've done that..  
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and
>> looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure.
>> First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and
>> even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me
>> wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon
>> emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for
>> Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while
>> the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not
>> live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit
>> Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give
>> more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that
>> all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is
>> rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that
>> Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without
>> the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about
>> learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing
>> that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree
>> with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels,
>> not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or
>> should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as
>> happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministri
>> es%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gma
>> il.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40g
>> mail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:43:38 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <9C32D8B7-5B33-4456-9C94-6AE833DF5C06 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> see Ephesians 4:5 and acts 2:42-43 
> 
> 
> faith is apostolic, doctrine is apostolic.  baptism is done in jesus name. 
> 
> see acts 2:38 acts 10:44-48 acts 4:10-12 acts 19:1-5 
> god bless
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:38, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Timothy, that would be your truth, and for you, that works.  It may not work
>> for everyone. Or, the person may interpret the bible differently than you.
>> There are several thousand sexts of Christianity alone, and most of them
>> think the rest are doing it incorrectly.  
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Timothy
>> Clark Ministries via Faith-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:35 AM
>> To: Brandon A. Olivares
>> Cc: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
>> 
>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of?
>> would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in
>> other words you find your own "personal truth." 
>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of
>> proportion to the truth. the truth isn't what you make it. the truth is the
>> thing that's staring you all in the face. read the bible. god's word. .
>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Devin,
>>> 
>>> I think it's important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn't
>> want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for
>> themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>> 
>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can't
>> just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to
>> figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old,
>> and I don't think it really ever ends.
>>> 
>>> Brandon
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries
>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>>> you'll confuse yourself. you'll give yourself more questions and you'll
>> go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent
>> enough, you'll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental
>> faculties. 
>>>>> i've been there, done that. because i've done it i can argue against
>> just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to
>> follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue,
>> be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>>> i say give it up if you don't want to go through it. like i said, i've
>> been there, i've done that..  
>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and
>> looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure.
>> First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and
>> even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me
>> wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon
>> emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for
>> Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while
>> the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not
>> live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit
>> Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give
>> more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that
>> all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is
>> rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that
>> Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without
>> the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about
>> learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing
>> that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree
>> with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels,
>> not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or
>> should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as
>> happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministri
>> es%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gma
>> il.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40g
>> mail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:44:17 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>
> To: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <786BE48F-40A2-47F4-857D-E02D8AD36696 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> i respect that argument however, i strongly disagree with it.
> Timothy Clark Ministries 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:40, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think there?s one truth, that all must find. I don?t think it?s equivalent to the Bible, but that?s each person?s journey to find out.
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:35 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of? would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, in other words you find your own ?personal truth.? 
>>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of proportion to the truth. the truth isn?t what you make it. the truth is the thing that?s staring you all in the face. read the bible. god?s word. .
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Devin,
>>>> 
>>>> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>>> 
>>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> dismiss it. 
>>>>>> i say this for one reason. 
>>>>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental faculties. 
>>>>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights. 
>>>>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve been there, i?ve done that..  
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 03:08:39 -0600
> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
> To: "Timothy Clark Ministries" <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>,
>    "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <91150D0C2354400380D2AB0173F9B030 at bassclef>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> Hi again --
> I forgot to mention that there are some books, such as the one mentioned at 
> the beginning of this thread, that are indeed disturbing.  I also have seen 
> shows claiming to be documentary, about books found in the dead sea scrolls. 
> I never can watch anything on tv that I trust implicitly, no matter who puts 
> it together.
> Especially when it covers something controversial like religion.  One thing 
> is that i am very picky about bible movies and historical fiction.
> It never matches what is written, and what is written differs with the 
> translation.
> It's interesting.  Movies never match the original story and sometimes the 
> changes are crazy.
> This is especially annoying when the book it is based on is scripture.  It's 
> like a deliberate lie, in the name of artistic expression.
> 
> Well, enjoy your year end.
> Watch out for those sighted drivers that don't watch where they are 
> going...;)
> Blessings.
> --le
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> 
> 
> i respect that argument however, i strongly disagree with it.
> Timothy Clark Ministries
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:40, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I think there?s one truth, that all must find. I don?t think it?s 
>> equivalent to the Bible, but that?s each person?s journey to find out.
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:35 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of? 
>>> would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, 
>>> in other words you find your own ?personal truth.?
>>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of 
>>> proportion to the truth. the truth isn?t what you make it. the truth is 
>>> the thing that?s staring you all in the face. read the bible. god?s word. 
>>> .
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares 
>>> <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Devin,
>>>> 
>>>> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t 
>>>> want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for 
>>>> themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>>> 
>>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t 
>>>> just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to 
>>>> figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years 
>>>> old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk 
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> dismiss it.
>>>>>> i say this for one reason.
>>>>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll 
>>>>>> go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent 
>>>>>> enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental 
>>>>>> faculties.
>>>>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against 
>>>>>> just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to 
>>>>>> follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you 
>>>>>> continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights.
>>>>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve 
>>>>>> been there, i?ve done that..
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk 
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and 
>>>>>>> looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not 
>>>>>>> sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I 
>>>>>>> studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of 
>>>>>>> Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view 
>>>>>>> on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm 
>>>>>>> conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a 
>>>>>>> little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, 
>>>>>>> our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way 
>>>>>>> through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit 
>>>>>>> Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking 
>>>>>>> it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it 
>>>>>>> basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. 
>>>>>>> It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel 
>>>>>>> or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention 
>>>>>>> of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now 
>>>>>>> what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is 
>>>>>>> to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I 
>>>>>>> had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most 
>>>>>>> Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not 
>>>>>>> sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or 
>>>>>>> should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and 
>>>>>>> ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 02:57:09 -0600
> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
> To: "Timothy Clark Ministries" <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com>,
>    "Faith-talk,    for the discussion of faith and religion"
>    <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> Message-ID: <798E8196A5D740D19D5EA608FEC8A394 at bassclef>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> Hi all --
> This is an interesting thread. I haven't been keeping up on my email every 
> day. I have some thoughts that I haven't seen anyone else make.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that truth is many faceted and infinite and what 
> you think is "true" just depends on your situation and personal perspective? 
> Of course people make mistakes in judgement, but there is an analogy that 
> I'm sure everyone has heard about the 5 blind men and the elephent, and each 
> is trying to determine what an elephant is like.  One grabs the trunk and 
> says it's like a snake; one grabs an ear and says it's like a fan; one grabs 
> a leg and thinks it's like a tree trunk, one leans against its side and 
> thinks it's a wall, and of course there is the guy in back who grabs the 
> tail and says it's like a rope.
> They are all somewhat right, but also don't comprehend the whole creature.
> 
> While I do believe the bible is true, I don't think all people who read it 
> are equally right.  I also think the Bible is not complete -- flame away if 
> you want, but look at the dead sea scrolls and such.  Certainly any 
> information beyond what is in the bible would be fascinating.  I also think 
> there are non christians who have the "light of Christ" or holy spirit in 
> them without knowing it, and behave like christians should.
> 
> But that's not news.  I don't necessarily believe in the possibility of a 
> unitarian or single true church that combines all the existing churches, 
> unless Jesus himself appears himself to the whole world and can resolve all 
> the disputes over doctrines.
> Meanwhile,  there is that story in the gospels about the disciples rebuking 
> someone for trying to cast a devil out of someone in the name of Jesus, but 
> he wasn't one of them, and Jesus rebuked the disciples  for this, because 
> all who were with him whether one of the disciples or not, were for him.
> Tolerance.
> 
> Has anyone also read about some of the non Christian religions in the world 
> such as eastern religions etc? They argue a little with Christians over 
> doctrines, but they also have some beliefs and practices that can be 
> helpful, and even agree in many ways with christianity. I also look back at 
> history and believe that many of the doctrinal and philosophical clashes 
> between groups of people develop as a result of hyppocrasy on the part of 
> believing people.
> I wonder how race relations in america would have been different if some of 
> the so called christians who claimed that slavery was right because of 
> misuse of some verses in the bible, and that the african people needed to be 
> christianized.
> I know, that was done mcenturies ago, but the aftermath still goes on.
> Well, at least Martin Luther King Jr was a great Christian.
> And the lds are often called nonchristian because of doctrinal beliefs and 
> strange history, but they are very much christian.
> Well i'm rambling. If anyone wants to discuss anything specific or share 
> verses and such about what the bible says about certain things, I'm a reader 
> and love to chat. If this isn't of interest here, I'll spare you any long 
> rambling.
> 
> I hope you all have a blessed and happy new year.
> --le
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Timothy Clark Ministries via Faith-talk" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: "Brandon A. Olivares" <programmer2188 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] a distressing book
> 
> 
> i respect that argument however, i strongly disagree with it.
> Timothy Clark Ministries
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
> 
> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:40, Brandon A. Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I think there?s one truth, that all must find. I don?t think it?s 
>> equivalent to the Bible, but that?s each person?s journey to find out.
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:35 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Brandon, i agree with you but what would you have truth take the form of? 
>>> would you agree with gnostics who believe truth is whatever we make it, 
>>> in other words you find your own ?personal truth.?
>>> these claims are ridiculously absurd and further more totally out of 
>>> proportion to the truth. the truth isn?t what you make it. the truth is 
>>> the thing that?s staring you all in the face. read the bible. god?s word. 
>>> .
>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:32, Brandon A. Olivares 
>>> <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Devin,
>>>> 
>>>> I think it?s important to question. If there is a God, then he doesn?t 
>>>> want children who blindly believe without finding out the truth for 
>>>> themselves. Search, and be open to whatever form the truth takes.
>>>> 
>>>> But just know that every author you read is biased in some way. You can?t 
>>>> just read a few books and think that is the end-all be-all. You have to 
>>>> figure it out for yourself. I started the journey when I was 10 years 
>>>> old, and I don?t think it really ever ends.
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:15 AM, Devin Prater via Faith-talk 
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you so much.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Clark Ministries 
>>>>>> <timothyclarkministries at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> dismiss it.
>>>>>> i say this for one reason.
>>>>>> you?ll confuse yourself. you?ll give yourself more questions and you?ll 
>>>>>> go mad searching for answers. eventually though, if you are persistent 
>>>>>> enough, you?ll get there. question is, at what cost to your mental 
>>>>>> faculties.
>>>>>> i?ve been there, done that. because i?ve done it i can argue against 
>>>>>> just about everything but, for most this is not a good path to try to 
>>>>>> follow. it takes discipline and patients and a lot of both. if you 
>>>>>> continue, be ready for lodes and lodes of sleepless nights.
>>>>>> i say give it up if you don?t want to go through it. like i said, i?ve 
>>>>>> been there, i?ve done that..
>>>>>> Timothy Clark Ministries
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkministries.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tevet 8, 5775 AM, at 1:00, Devin Prater via Faith-talk 
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all. For years I've saught the truth. For years I've looked and 
>>>>>>> looked to find God, and just when I think I've found him, I'm not 
>>>>>>> sure. First there was Gnosticism that challenged me the most. I 
>>>>>>> studdied it, and even downloaded a few of the gospels, like of 
>>>>>>> Thomas. Now don't get me wrong. I don't just flit from view to view 
>>>>>>> on religion so easily. I soon emerged from that with the firm 
>>>>>>> conviction that it was just not true, for Jesus wouldn't want just a 
>>>>>>> little few to become children of God, and while the world is fallen, 
>>>>>>> our main wish shouldn't be to get out of it and not live on our way 
>>>>>>> through it. But there's a book called Satan's counterfeit 
>>>>>>> Christianity that I found on iBooks. I started reading it thinking 
>>>>>>> it'd give more about other ideas I should keep away from, but it 
>>>>>>> basically reads that all knowledge me have of Christianity is wrong. 
>>>>>>> It says that Catholicism is rooted in other religions, based on Babel 
>>>>>>> or however you spell it, and that Protestantism is just an extention 
>>>>>>> of Catholicism, just split and without the rituals and such. So, now 
>>>>>>> what? But the book's only advice about learning the "true faith" is 
>>>>>>> to read the Bible deeply. Well, I've been doing that for as long as I 
>>>>>>> had a Bible to read, and the only thing I disagree with of most 
>>>>>>> Christians is that the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, not 
>>>>>>> sons of Seth. So, is this something I should keep investigating, or 
>>>>>>> should I just dismiss it before I cause myself more confusion and 
>>>>>>> ache as happened with Gnosticism?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkministries%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Faith-talk Digest, Vol 89, Issue 25
> ******************************************