[Faith-talk] My Story

Mon May 29 01:31:21 UTC 2017

Hi Nick!
I am very happy that you have such an understanding from the Bible why you believe what you believe. How did you come to that point where you believed all of this from the scriptures. I guess I am asking, what is your testimony? I was taken through a long journey before I became a Christian. I was raised in a home where Mom and Dad believed in a religion called Christian Science. Mary Baker Eddy is the founder, and she wrote her own book, called: Science and Health the Key to the Scriptures. She said, and Christian Scientists believe that God created nothing evil or bad at all. The only reason that a person is blind, for example, is because people believe that there is blindness. It is just not your belief that you can be sick, but you are sick, because others around you believe that. You have to destroy the belief that you are blind, along with not hanging with people that believe you can be blind. It did a lot of damage to me all the way into my twinties. I did not except any special help for my blindness until it was time for me to Graduate from high school and go to The Ohio State University. I had to totally get caught up with being independent in a year. I had never held a cane until I was 17, I had never walked down the street until I was 18. With in six months, I was getting all over Columbus, Ohio, and I memorized hundreds of streets and bus routes. I discovered that I had no beliefs, and I searched and prayed, and read all kinds of literature and I read the Bible three times, before I became a Christian. I became a Christian in 1999, two years after I met my current wife. That is some of my testimony, just a little bit. I want to ask you, How would you interpret what Jesus said about himself in John Chapter 8. Jesus said: Before Abraham was: I am. Who could say that unless he was God. Jesus says I am, That is what God says in Exodus 4 when he talks to Moses. Also, the Jews took up stones to stone him, and the leaders said, you are proclaiming to be God. So even the Jewish leaders thought that Jesus was proclaiming to be God. How do you think that a Human son of God could say: I am the way the truth, and the life. How could Jesus say that in John 8 that before Abraham was, I am. I would like to talk to you about John chapters 8 and 10 a lot, because that is where Jesus seems to claim that he is God the most. You are right that in the other three gospels, Jesus calls himself the Son of Man a lot, and does not make the claims that he does in John. It is in John where Jesus really seems to claim his identity as being God himself. Especially in John chapters 8 and 10. Jesus makes incredible claims about himself that seems to be only what God could say. Also, what about in John 14, where Jesus says that he who has seen me has seen the father? Also, how about in John chapter 10 where Jesus says I and the Father are one. How could Jesus be one with the Father if Jesus was not God. I am very loving and want to get to know you. I just like talking to people about how they would interpret these powerful claims that Jesus makes about himself in John if he is human. I really want to learn from you. I am very interested in church history, and the different councils and that. Could you tell me how I can find all of that material that you mensioned about the different councils? I do realize that the word trinity is not in scripture at all. How ever, there are passages that seem to equate the Holy Spirit to God. Read Acts chapter 6 about the couple who lied to Peter and both fell dead. Peter says that the husband lied to the Holy Spirit, and that he lied to God in the same passage. If he lied to the Holy Spirit and to God, it seems like the holy Spirit would have to be God it seems like here. Wow, there are just so many scriptures I would like to throw back and forth with you. I am interest in getting to know you, because you seem very intelligent, and you have studied a lot to stand up for what you believe. I would love to know what you think about John Chapters 8 and 10 especially. Take care, Nick, and I wish you a very blessed day.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Hlifka via Faith-Talk
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 8:06 AM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
Cc: Nick Hlifka
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] My Story

Hello David:
Pleasure to meet you! Yes, I should stress that I believe I believe this on a solely Scriptural basis.  I do not (or try not to) allow philosophy or other writings to influence my position, and I certainly accept the Bible and only the Bible in its present form as the inspired word of God.

I do believe in the full historicity of the Gospels, including the Resurrection and Exaltation.  In this, Jesus was the first to obtain such a Resurrection, and is now seated at the right hand of God, as we read in Scripture.  He is indeed very alive and active even at this moment, and will be coming again.

I should also note that a "mere man" still means Jesus was the Son of God.  We are all "sons of God" in a lesser sense, but he held this title in a unique manner due to his being Messiah.  I do believe in the virginal conception.  As the unique Son of God, without a human father, he would have been free from the constraints of original sin, which we can never be.  In this way, he could have sinned as fully man, but did not have the almost inevitable tendency to sin as we do because of this.

As far as salvation goes, it is up to God what serves as a sufficient payment for sins, not us.  If He declares that the sacrifice of His very own Son is what is necessary to redeem all humankind, then that is what is required.  Jesus was the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant to the Jews.  God was pleased when He saw that Abraham was faithful to the point of being willing to sacrifice his only son Isaac in Genesis 22.  In keeping His end of the covenant, God was likewise faithful to His people to the point of sacrificing His only Son: except He went through with it.  I don't think Jesus not being God incarnate takes away from the power of the Cross; God required His only unique Son to be given as a sacrifice, and Jesus was obedient unto death to the will of his Father.

On a briefly yet inadequately brief historical note, the Jewish understanding of "Messiah" was to be a man sent and empowered by God.  We must understand Jesus within the Judaic culture of the period which he was in.  He makes constant claims to being "Son of God" and "Messiah" or "Christ," and "Son of Man," but not "God incarnate," and he understood himself within this context as well.  Any threat to the strict monotheism of Judaism would not have been tolerated.  The earliest Christians were all Jewish converts, and the movement only spread to the Gentiles at a later time.  The fully developed "Trinity" does not arise in the historical writings of the Church Fathers until the 4th century, having its roots in the Council of Nicaea (325) and fully developed at Constantinople (381) and subsequent councils thereafter.

Sorry this was so long, I hope that at least begins to help clarify my position some.

Blessings to all,
Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Faith-Talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Moore via Faith-Talk
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 4:08 AM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Moore <jesusloves1966 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] My Story

Hi Nick and all,
Nick, this is David Moore, a regular contributer on the group. I am just curious why you believe that Jesus was just a man and fully man? If I did not know the Bible that well, the first question I would have, is that how could Jesus be the only way to salvation if he was just a human, because all humans sin, scripture says. Romans 3 says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That would include Jesus as well if he was just a human. Also, How could Jesus save us if he died like any other human being. Jesus saves us, because he rose from the dead and is still alive. How could a dead man forgive our sins now in our time? Do you believe this just from the Bible, or do you get your beliefs from other writings that you believe are from God and athoritive? I am just curious, and I look forward to talking with you and finding out more why you believe what you believe. 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Hlifka via Faith-Talk
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 8:31 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
Cc: Nick Hlifka
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] My Story

Sandra and all:

Thanks for the warm welcomes! Yes, I am a college student (will be a senior this year, I'm 20) and attending aa (secular) liberal arts school for Philosophy and Religious Studies.  I have been a Christian for about 2 years.  I can relate in the "not liberal but not the typical conservative Christian" description; I am a biblical unitarian, meaning I believe in the one God the Father and His human Son and Messiah Jesus Christ.  This is not a denial of Jesus as the one way to salvation, but rather a belief that the Bible teachings are better understood that God is strictly Yahweh (not a Trinity) and that Jesus was fully and merely a man.  As you can imagine, this doesn't make a particular place within the faith to call "home" easy to find.  I'm alternating back and forth between pursuing ministry and teaching philosophy.  We will see where God leads on that.

Sandra, yes, Bookshare offers plenty of perspectives on there.  As well as other religions as well.  I guess they don't have "The Message" or anything like that on there from what I see, but there is plenty of good material nevertheless.  I'm a big fan of blogs, podcasts, etc.  which are usually accessible.  I also use an iPhone and my Braille Note as the display for it, and through this pairing you are able to use the Kindle app fairly nicely.  So I'll often buy books on there and read them as well.

It's so very great to see such a high amount of traffic on this list! I had no idea it existed until the other morning when I was doing some poking around.  You are all a great group!

Blessings,
Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Faith-Talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Streeter via Faith-Talk
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 1:32 PM
To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: Sandra Streeter <sandrastreeter381 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Faith-talk] miscellaneous

Hi, Nick and everyone else,

Welcome to the list, Nick—I attended Western MI University in the early 90’s, when I thought I was going to teach blind people, but God closed that door. Still, I have very happy memories of school and of the two AG churches I attended while there, so you already have a soft spot in my heart. Thanks for the Bookshare info, and to whoever commented that membership in Hadley or another blindness org can help us avail ourselves of free Bookshare membership—I hadn’t known that, so when it’s time to renew, I will remember that bit of info.

Yes, Ericka, we should meet---prior to Heaven, preferably!!! I am not a great phone person, in the meantime, but feel free to email me off-list if you want to go deeper—I, too, am enjoying our ongoing conversations, and that comment goes for the whole list!

I’m not sure NlS is still offering the Mags in Special Media—I thought they had let that go—but I could be wrong.

Nick, it is good to hear that there are more Christian resources available than was the case when I was attending Christian liberal arts colleges back in the 80’s—most of my books, I had read onto cassette, which actually was pretty neat, in that, I had nonChristian family that had the opportunity to be exposed to different aspects of my faith through the readings they did for me. but aside from that aspect, I am glad there’s more out there for us. I’m assuming Bookshare offers from a variety of perspectives, since they are not just a religious org? I don’t fit neatly into any branch of Christianity, like you, and that is partly the fault of the Christian liberal arts system, ha, ha, ha—we were taught to think critically, and although it wasn’t left-leaning by any shape, you could find folks from a whole spectrum of church traditions/beliefs. But, what has disturbed me is that, at least from the religious book sphere, it has been really easy to find things from a very conservative perspective, it has been harder to find more moderate resources—for instance, I’ve been looking for an audio of “The Message,” and haven’t yet found it. So, I’m thinking Bookshare might be a source of more diverse Christian materials... Anyone could tell you, I am not a liberal by any means, but I’m not the easy-to-fit conservative,either. Nick, I already sense we have a lot in common. Please, if you don’t mind, share more of your story with us.

Sandra

Not “Revelation” – tis – that waits
But our unfurnished eyes –
(Emily Dickinson)

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