[Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] Fw: May I ask a question.
Marion & Martin
swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Mon Nov 30 14:53:29 UTC 2009
Patricia,
I think that, if Charles wants to engage in this discussion, he ought to
join the list! Otherwise, I believe we ought to ignore his messages as
irrelevant electronic hearsay!
Fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
> Hi guys.
>
> I will be happy to forward David's message on to Charles.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>
>
>> Marion,
>>
>> Yes I seen where the post was forwarded from and I sent Charles a copy as
>> well.
>>
>> Thanks for checking. Have a Great Day.
>>
>> David Wermuth
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] [Flagdu] Fw: May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>> David,
>>> Did you notice that the message writer and the message sender were
>>> not one and the same? I hope your message gets to the writer! At least
>>> it is getting to some of those who can help make a difference, perhaps
>>> altering their perceptions. I, too, saw this message as bureaucratic
>>> rhetoric! It takes considerable energy and motivation to change
>>> perceptions.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles. and thanks for your
>>>> service to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>>>>
>>>> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to
>>>> respectfully disagree with.
>>>>
>>>> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past is
>>>> that I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs, 17
>>>> yrs..."
>>>>
>>>> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that most
>>>> if not all of the employees should have been fired years ago. and
>>>> while I have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and
>>>> Family and sat on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind
>>>> needs to clean house. You say you have worked in the field of BVI for
>>>> 17 years we'll just a little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight
>>>> back after five and on weekends. So I am asking who has more
>>>> experience? I have 19 years of blind experience, 24 hours a day
>>>> includeing holidays, weekends.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks
>>>> under blindfold. Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the Blind
>>>> go thru immersion for thirty days as new employees. and I am also
>>>> encouraged that you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a
>>>> effort to work on learning or at the very least trying to understand
>>>> the everyday struggles of living b-vi. That makes me feel all warm and
>>>> fuzzy inside.
>>>>
>>>> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with
>>>> consumers of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments.
>>>> and I'll say it again "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to better
>>>> serve the BVI in Florida."
>>>>
>>>> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI
>>>> person's into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted
>>>> people can do it better? and if that is the opinion of DBS then the
>>>> whole slate of employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then
>>>> what is the use of even giving you all pay checks at the expense of our
>>>> tax dollars.
>>>>
>>>> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me? Those student's
>>>> worked their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as
>>>> during my educational learning from the University of Washington I
>>>> earned a few myself. They are a mark of hard work and excellence
>>>> giving to them for all their hard work. If they want to spend it on
>>>> more equipment, food to have enough energy to get to school the next
>>>> day, clothes... then so be it. We as tax payers do not ask state
>>>> employees to return the money it cost's to feed a lunch to a agency
>>>> during a training class, pay back the many Holidays, accumidated sick
>>>> leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after
>>>> tenure they forget where the money is coming from (tax payers) and
>>>> forget who they are working for. The more money they don't spend and
>>>> yes I know about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking
>>>> about how nice their Christmas party can be and all along pat each
>>>> other on the back saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those blind-low
>>>> vision people"
>>>>
>>>> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds like a
>>>> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send out
>>>> that comes directly from the top. Hmm
>>>>
>>>> Enough already,
>>>>
>>>> David Wermuth
>>>> Brooksville, FL
>>>> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>> P.S Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
>>>> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that we
>>>>> did not
>>>>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had
>>>>> clients
>>>>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down due
>>>>> to
>>>>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general
>>>>> program,
>>>>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>>>>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better. The
>>>>> use of
>>>>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option
>>>>> and a
>>>>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary.
>>>>> Refusing
>>>>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As an
>>>>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure that
>>>>> the
>>>>> customer received quality training and recommended additional
>>>>> instruction
>>>>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion
>>>>> that if
>>>>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was
>>>>> unfortunately
>>>>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the
>>>>> client and
>>>>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate
>>>>> learning
>>>>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004, I
>>>>> spent
>>>>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they call
>>>>> an
>>>>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do at
>>>>> the
>>>>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>>>>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology.
>>>>> One of
>>>>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his NFB
>>>>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an
>>>>> open-minded
>>>>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with other
>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>>>>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they did
>>>>> provide
>>>>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember, that
>>>>> the
>>>>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first
>>>>> allowing
>>>>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case
>>>>> mentioned
>>>>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't
>>>>> know for
>>>>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices
>>>>> aren't
>>>>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money to
>>>>> DBS
>>>>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not
>>>>> have a
>>>>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was used.
>>>>>
>>>>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful contributions.
>>>>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to
>>>>> access more
>>>>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he
>>>>> made,
>>>>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that blind
>>>>> rehab
>>>>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things he
>>>>> said
>>>>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>>>>
>>>>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and the
>>>>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the
>>>>> Division
>>>>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and no
>>>>> besmirching of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the
>>>>> agency
>>>>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all
>>>>> employees of
>>>>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees
>>>>> who have
>>>>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to
>>>>> educate
>>>>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community
>>>>> around
>>>>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage
>>>>> paperwork.
>>>>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part in
>>>>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in my
>>>>> local
>>>>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my responsibility
>>>>> to
>>>>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters
>>>>> have been
>>>>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman for
>>>>> the
>>>>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these
>>>>> channels
>>>>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn from
>>>>> those I
>>>>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>>>>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say that
>>>>>>as an
>>>>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of Florida. I
>>>>>>do
>>>>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by NAC. I
>>>>>>then
>>>>>
>>>>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis and
>>>>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see
>>>>>>Florids'd
>>>>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and
>>>>>>> observe
>>>>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I
>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively asisst
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that
>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves and
>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and sometimes
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> end up with egg on our face but... I have sat and listened to
>>>>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have
>>>>>>> time to
>>>>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away
>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you
>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>> next? We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida isn't
>>>>>>> working, so????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida
>>>>>>> Association of
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago,
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>> Greater
>>>>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate with
>>>>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that because
>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship
>>>>>>>> winner
>>>>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do so.
>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when
>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director and
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has taken.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS is
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some
>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB so
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our
>>>>>>>> advocacy
>>>>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when several
>>>>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into
>>>>>>>> transportation as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who
>>>>>>>> serve the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of Florida,
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to change
>>>>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it forward--
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own
>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years, I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than just
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies, I
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout Florida
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of NFB
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>>>>> Sherri
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>> The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time
>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services.
>>>>>>>>> During
>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive
>>>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and
>>>>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from
>>>>>>>>> those who
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment center
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training,
>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door of
>>>>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was to
>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose
>>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking
>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately, Craig's
>>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>>>> We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind", as
>>>>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention. Though
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>> words
>>>>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> support,
>>>>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status quo
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward, and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has more
>>>>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted
>>>>>>>>> institutions
>>>>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the
>>>>>>>>> authoritative
>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC
>>>>>>>>> accreditted
>>>>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>>>> As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of the
>>>>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that too
>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When crossing
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to be
>>>>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of those
>>>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and
>>>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First a little background on me. I've worked for the state of
>>>>>>>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to
>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>> May. I am not asking these question's to cause waves or insult
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence
>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand. I have noticed that
>>>>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some reason
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but
>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of
>>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for
>>>>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders of the blind community stand up
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity. I've sat at many meeting's
>>>>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the right's
>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least three
>>>>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and heard
>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I
>>>>>>>>>> promise you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and as
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA
>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of bull
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their
>>>>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of
>>>>>>>>>> Florida?
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
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>>>>> on.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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