[Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eyedognot allowed intorestaurant

Thu Jun 17 04:55:12 UTC 2010

I'm assuming you sent this note to the list.
Ignorance?. Let's recall that I don't call people who disagree
"simple-minded fool". 

-----Original Message-----
From: flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of ralph 		
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:30 PM
To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eyedognot
allowed intorestaurant

ok you win and your prize is your ignorance. wwere any of you even taught
the command sit,down, under. what happens when a wheel chair person need to
get through the isle that you not your dog you are blocking. this i have
wittnessed or a blind child that doing their best without a cane or dog and
trips over your dog.how about a waitress witha full to the brim tray comes
by at a rapid service tray.where did you simple minded fool learn to be so
inconsiderate. it is simple manners and consideration and yes the florida
laws say you and your dog may be removed it you interfere with normal
bussiness operations.

________________________________
From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 1:29:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye
dognot allowed intorestaurant

I frankly wouldn't mind a guide dog in surgery, are dogs are cleaner, at
least in the smell department, than some folks I'm meeting these days.
The point is, if you feel that it's necessary to keep your dog tuckied under
a chair, or whatever, and feel that doing otherwise is inconsiderate, Ralph,
than more power too you.
But the law doesn't say you can be thrown out for having your dog in an
isle.

Dan W. and the Carter Dog 

-----Original Message-----
From: flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of ralph narducci
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:26 PM
To: Marion Gwizdala; Florida Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye
dognot allowed intorestaurant

you are close to being rude.i am telling you that if a guide animal of any
kind is in the way of normal business traffic it can be removed. what next a
guide dog in surgery or the restaurant kitchen. common sense. sighted people
also have the right to a safe traffic area.

________________________________
From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 7:44:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
not allowed intorestaurant

Ralph,
  again, the information you are disseminating is not completely accurate.
FYI, I have attached guidance from the centers for Disease Control
concerning the rights of access to service animals in hospitals and other
health care facilities. If you are interested in helping educate others
about our rights, please make a better effort to get factual information and
not just an uninformed opinion.

fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users
National Federation of the Blind
813-598-7161
President at NFB-NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://NFB-NAGDU.ORG

----- Original Message ----- From: "ralph narducci" <spadad1 at yahoo.com>
To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
not allowed intorestaurant

a lawful and appropriate law suite against the hospital. do something other
than complain.i do know of a few law suites against hospitals that were
refused because the hospital-insisted and proved that sterile environmental
safety trumped the access rights especially when the hospital had the whole
incident on film showing open wounds being treated and a frantic work
situation. please understand that your guide animal, dog,horse,fish or bird
cannot interfere with normal guidelines of operation. the film i saw (kinda)
showed a hurried,frantic emergency,sterile enviroment. with several attempts
to provide mobility to the visaually impaired person. it is a hard one but
we guide dog users have responsibilities of common sense and safety to
others as they do to us. well wish you all the best and God bless

________________________________
From: michael irwin <mikeirwin2009 at hotmail.com>
To: Jody <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 4:55:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
not allowed intorestaurant

Jody please forward this info. to Ralph. I think we should feel an
obligation to stop this behavior by business owners, and in my case a
hospital. If we don't say something or respectfully demand our rights as
disabled Americans, how can we expect others to care that our rights are
violated? It can be difficult to stand up for your own rights, but it is the
correct thing to do every single time!
Mike...
I have something that you need to read. I have well documented information
about numerous violations by a local hospital who's employees refused me
treatment and told me to leave the hospital, because I had a Service Dog!
The files attached are a horrific account of how I was abused. I was a
patient in the hospital and couldn't hardly leave my room without being
hassled. I also spent a great deal of time constructing a plan for the
hospital to remedy the different violations that occurred, at the request of
hospital administration.
The staff would NOT even look at the information that I prepared for them.
It was too detrimental to the hospital, doctors, staff and employees. I was
also informed that I should not even try to volunteer at the hospital.The
head V.P. of marketing informed me that "they don't want service dogs in the
hospital, nor will they have anything to do with a Service Dog" program. I
have sent a press release out about the criminal actions (please don't
forget these ARE BY DEFINITION CRIMINAL
ACTS) and I am looking for legal representation to take St. Petersburg
Hospital to court. If any lawyers exist in our group I would appreciate a
phone number or they can email me. Please, please pass this email on to all
of the members that you can. I am not sure hoe to broadcast a message to all
the members.
I will be glad to talk to anyone by phone as well. My cell # is
727-565-9211. Thank you all in advance for your assistance.
Mike Irwin

P.S. The hospital proposal can be emailed to anyone interested in reading
it. It was offered to the hospital as a remedy to the problems.
The final straw was when my Service Dog and I were attacked by a Pit Bull in
the parking lot of the hospital that escaped from a visitors "locked car". I
was a patient at the time of the attack. It now seems the hospital security
department lost the report. The local Police do still have a report that I
need to get from them.
Hold for June,01,2010 Release.Michael Irwin Service Dog Discriminated
Against at Hospital.

Phone: 727-565-9211Fax:727-289-3209Email: mikeirwin at aol.comWeb site: Contact
Irwin with additional info. requests.Dog Gone Discrimination!Saint
Petersburg, Florida - 24/5/2010 - "Hospital stays that were humiliating"
stated Irwin. "At times the blatant discrimination was shocking." Primarily
for a serious infection Irwin was Hospitalized several times (in 6 Months)to
receive high dose antibiotics. Each time Irwin was being treated at Saint
Petersburg General Hospital discrimination (against Irwin and his Service
Dog) occurred numerous times, and during each stay.
"The
abuse was daily" said Irwin. "how can some people who work in a hospital be
so ignorant of ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) laws, "and how people
with a Service Dog are supposed to be treated legally."
It seems that lack of proper training of the hospital staff and employees is
the root of the cause. Infractions on Irwin's legal rights during his stays
at St. Pete. General Hospital included, employees and staff members ordering
Irwin and his Service Dog out of the hospital, inappropriate
(illegal)questions asked of Irwin as defined by ADA regulations, refused
medical treatment of Irwin in the Emergency Room for an injury after the
Doctor expressed disgust of Irwin's Service Dog being allowed in the
Hospital (refusing him even a preliminary examination), and numerous other
ADA infractions.
"Things
have even gotten worse" Irwin indicated "I was asked by the head of the
marketing department Ginger King to indicate remedies I had in mind and
present the ideas to her when finished". "When I called her to deliver my
report she said that the Hospital didn't want any report, or information
about(abuses and the other) hospitals problems". Irwin is trying to contact
Hospital executives Guy Samuel V.P. of Human Resources, and Jenny Dennis
Education Dir. to settle the issues and discuss Irwin's Hospital imposed
dilemma. "If the Hospital CEO, or Board of Directors wont talk to me in the
Board Room I guess they will have to answer the questions about the abuses
in the Court Room.
Irwin
and his Service Dog "Nickie" both have a lengthy list of qualifications, and
certifications. Both meet or exceed all Local, State, and Federal
Requirements for a Service Dog, and it's User/Handler. Irwin has been
decorated for his Training Skill, user qualifications and handler
capabilities. Nickie (the Service Dog)was decorated for excellence and
completion of many training programs. "It was indicated to me not to even
apply for a Volunteer job." Irwin said, it seems obvious St. Pete. General
would not want the public to become aware of it's employees discriminatory
behavior. But what is the Hospitals problem? And is it worth trampling on
Irwin's Human Rights to avoid embarrassment? Irwin explained, "This all
started because Bay News 9 wanted to film a story about how Nickie helped me
when I was in the hospital". Irwin was ordered by the Marketing Department
not to do so. What happened to Freedom of Speech and Constitutional Rights?
It seems the only future assistance offer by St. Pete general is to show
Irwin where the door is. It seems apparent that this is just another case of
"Dog Gone Discrimination".
###

> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 12:42:02 -0700
> From: spadad1 at yahoo.com
> To: blind411 at verizon.net; flagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye 
> dog not allowed intorestaurant
> 
> please, should you ever need to appear before a judge on the issue as 
> i have several times. the real treat was the judge that was ignorant 
> of my
rights and the laws that are present to protect those rights. for the sake
of a secure,comfortable and friendly supper sometimes it is best for all to
be strong yet polite. if you do get served in a less than understanding
establishment well many things may be added to your plate that do not
qualify as food. some simple call ahead planning may allow you to avoid a
negative situition. is that wrong? no but a gulf full of oil is not right,
simply because bp did not plan ahead.i love my guide dogs and i love having
them with me. unfortunately the world is not perfect if it were we would not
have ada or civil rights laws.i only speak for myself. i will not suject my
guide dog , myself or my companions into a enviroment that does not welcome
me. listen i know that rejection because of our disabilities is cruel and
hard but the world is a cruel , hard place. plan ahead,prepare.in the
morning read your ada and aclu newsletters. do you have a attorney? well God
bless and yes,pursue your happiness. please keep in mind your guide dog does
not have to bark. as i have witnessed on a few occasions a guide dog
blocking the traffic flow and not having it CORRECTED with a simple "sit,
down under" is legal grounds for removal of the guide dog,pony or even
parrot. i have faced all kinds of discrimination sadly but true usually
based on ignorance that some simple instruction can cure. sometimes having a
guide dog is difficult at best but we continue to show our best side and
read the florida statue if the guide animal of any kind interferes with the
normal flow of bussiness traffic it and you can be removed."sit,down
under".enjoy mealtime and allow your sadly expensive attorney argue. God
bless and i wish you the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sun, June 13, 2010 3:37:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye 
> dog not allowed intorestaurant
> 
> Ralph,
> I would like to respectfully disagree with your assertions that
"interfering with normal business flow" is a legitimate legal reason to
refuse access to a disabled person accompanied by a service animal.
According to Florida statute 413.08 and the Americans with Disabilities Act,
the only legitimate, legal reasons to deny access to a service animal is if
the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others that
cannot be mitigated by a reasonable modification of policies, practices, or
procedures or if the animal is out of control and the handler does not take
immediate action to correct the behavior.
> As for there being no jail time for those who violate our civil rights
under Florida law, this is partly true. Although violation of florida
statute is a second degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 60 days in jail
and/or a fine of up to $500, it is very unlikely that anyone convicted of a
second degree misdemeanor would face any jail time. This being said, Florida
courts have been very strict on those who have violated our rights under
this statute. The most recent case I know of resulted in the person being
sentenced to 45 hours of community service with the Lighthouse for the
Blind, being required to post "service Animals Welcome" signs, and being
required to place a 1/4 page ad in the St. Petersburg Times for 7
consecutive days advising the public of the law. This latter part of the
sentence probably cost the business owner about $2000!
> As for the practice of calling ahead to let a business know you will 
> be bringing a service animal, I am of the opinion that this is not a 
> very
good idea for several reasons. The first and most important reason is that a
place of public accommodation cannot discriminate against someone
accompanied by a service animal so there is absolutely no good reason to
tell them in advance. It is my experience that doing so only causes more
problems than it might seem to prevent. When a business is notified in
advance, the staff seems to think that there is something special they need
to do to prepare for the service animal. This can result in such forms of
discrimination as separate or unequal benefits. It also gives rise to the
business saying they do not allow animals in their place of business. It is
better to deal with their ignorance when you get there, rather than try to
convince them on the phone. We have the legal right to be accompanied by our
service animals in any place the public is invited, so the fact that we will
be accompanied by our dogs is irrelevant. Would you advise a black person to
call ahead and let a business know that a black person will be coming to
their place of business? If the answer is "No!", then why notify them that
we will be accompanied by a guide dog? It is the black person's civil right
to enjoy the benefits of a public accommodation without being subjected to
discrimination just as it is our civil right to be accompanied by a service
animal without being subjected to discrimination. JMHO!
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ralph narducci" 
> <spadad1 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Merry Schoch" <merrys at verizon.net>; "Florida Association of Guide 
> Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye 
> dog not allowed intorestaurant
> 
> 
> i have been a guide dog user for over ten years. hey there is no jail 
> time involved for anyone that refuses a guide dog. they simply say 
> that
the dog is interfering with normal business flow. i find that several guide
dog user have no idea what the command "sit, down under" is or what and when
it is to be used.the problem many times is the fault of an uneducated or
indifferent guide dog user. if the police are called the establishment
manager or owner is always corrected. if the guide dog user has a copy of
the state laws with them and is is in firm and complete in complete control
of their dog. remember the dog MAY NOT interfere with normal operations of
any establishment.it is best to use brain not brawn and of course simple
courtesy. a call ahead saying i will or my friend will be at your
establishment with their guide dog. any fuss say perhaps you should contact
legal advice. simple we the visually impaired also have guide lines to
follow. good luck and be gracious with good planning.
> ralph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Merry Schoch <merrys at verizon.net>
> To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sat, June 12, 2010 9:28:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye 
> dog not allowed intorestaurant
> 
> Sherrill,
> 
> I appreciate you putting this out. Marion and I just saw this since we 
> were gone until late evening. I am sure NAGDU will in some way educate 
> the restaurant owner. Hopefully there will be guide dog users in the 
> area to unite and visit this establishment.
> 
> Thanks again for the post!
> Merry
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherrill O'Brien" 
> <sherrill.obrien at verizon.net>
> To: "FLAGDU List" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:33 PM
> Subject: [Flagdu] FW: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog 
> not allowed intorestaurant
> 
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Yes, just one more article about a guide dog user being refused 
> > access > to a restaurant. But the employee in this restaurant, who 
> > is acting as though he's the manager, is extremely pigheaded about 
> > this, saying that when a blind person accompanied by a dog is 
> > eating, she doesn't need the dog, > so it can wait outside. Amazing!
> > For those of you who attended our FLAGDU meeting in Orlando, this 
> > should really remind you of the skit which we > put on, dramatizing 
> > an actual event in which our vice president Merry Schoch was denied 
> > access to an ice-cream shop in Tampa. The worker there was just > as 
> > unyielding, until she was threatened with jail time!
> >
> > This woman did not file a complaint with the police department, and 
> > she gave in and left the restaurant. This is where the Federation 
> > can help > educate and advocate for guide dog users who themselves 
> > need some guidance. This article never mentions the manager or owner 
> > of the restaurant. This situation certainly calls for some solid NFB 
> > intervention on all fronts.
> > But I'm getting carried away. Read on, and I'm sure Marion will 
> > weigh in on this situation!
> >
> > Sherrill
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
> > Behalf Of Ginger Kutsch
> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:02 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not 
> > allowed intorestaurant
> >
> >
> > Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not allowed into restaurant 
> > By Maria Papadopoulos ENTERPRISE STAFF WRITER Posted Jun 11, 2010 @
> > 01:38 AM
> >
> > BROCKTON, MASS. - Claire Crowell says she could not see the man who 
> > refused to let her Seeing Eye dog accompany her into a city 
> > restaurant.
> >
> > She could only hear him - and his words stunned her.
> >
> > "He said, 'I don't care, you can't come in here with the dog,'"
> > Crowell, 69, said while standing next to the dog, Vixen, in the 
> > kitchen of her Brockton home Thursday afternoon.
> >
> > Crowell said she and a friend went to the Chinatown restaurant on 
> > Oak Street Extension on Wednesday for lunch.
> >
> > When she walked inside with Vixen, she said a male employee told her 
> > she could come in, but to leave the dog outside.
> >
> > Crowell said she told the employee that federal law allows her to 
> > bring a guide dog into the restaurant, but the man refused the dog 
> > again. Crowell then left the restaurant.
> >
> > "I felt embarrassed and violated, you know? It's very embarrassing," 
> > Crowell said, crying. "It's hard enough to be a disabled person, but 
> > when you're treated like that, it's not fun."
> >
> > The federal Americans with Disabilities Act requires privately-owned 
> > businesses that serve the public to allow people with disabilities 
> > to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever 
> > areas customers are generally allowed. The law applies to businesses 
> > including restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, 
> > concert halls and sports facilities.
> >
> > State law says that whoever deprives a physically handicapped person 
> > this right may be fined $300 and is liable for civil action.
> >
> > At Chinatown restaurant on Thursday, employee Dominic So said that 
> > he refused to let Vixen, Crowell's dog, into the restaurant on 
> > Wednesday.
> >
> > "I work here. I have the right to stop the dog," said So, 50. "I 
> > won't let a dog in the restaurant."
> >
> > When informed of the federal law that allows a guide dog to be 
> > inside the restaurant, So said, "I have no clue."
> >
> > "The dog can wait outside," So said. "When she eats, she doesn't 
> > need the dog. When she walks, she needs the dog. I understand that."
> >
> > So said that Crowell could have people assist her inside the 
> > restaurant, but the dog should stay outside.
> >
> > "I just can't let a dog in the dining room when I have customers 
> > dining here," So said. "If she insists I violated her rights, 
> > there's nothing I can do. I'm right to refuse a dog in the 
> > restaurant."
> >
> > Businesses refusing guide dogs is seen regularly, and often results 
> > from a misunderstanding on the part of business owners, said Chris 
> > Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind in 
> > Baltimore.
> >
> > "You simply have to educate the business owner," he said. "If a 
> > business owner actually refuses, it can lead to seeking charges to 
> > being filed."
> >
> > "It's obviously very upsetting to the person that it happens to,"
> > he added.
> >
> > If Crowell made a complaint to police, officers would go to the 
> > restaurant to explain the law to employees, police Lt. Tom LaFratta 
> > said.
> >
> > "If they still refuse, I would take punitive action," LaFratta said.
> >
> > Crowell said she formerly worked as a medical assistant before an 
> > autoimmune condition led to the deterioration of her eyesight over 
> > the past three decades. She became legally blind in the 1990s.
> >
> > Hugging Vixen, she said she relies on the part golden retriever, 
> > part Labrador retriever on showing her the way.
> >
> > "The dog is my eyes," she said. "She is supposed to see for me and 
> > guide me where I need to go."
> >
> > Maria Papadopoulos can be reached at 
> > mpapadopoulos at enterprisenews.com.
> >
> > Source:
> > http://www.patriotledger.com/business/x1602635111/Blind-Brockton-
> > woman-Seeing-Eye-dog-not-allowed-into-restaurant
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > en%40ver
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> >
> >
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