[gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

Sat Aug 15 06:23:28 UTC 2009

Hmm. One wonders if one's up to it. Don't know. Wish I had some hands-on 
experience so I could do better than guess about this.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Les Kriegler" <kriegler at nycap.rr.com>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

Hi Joel,

One important factor is the commitment one wishes to make about learning a
new way of doing things.  Not everybody will want to do this.  The Mac does
things differently than Windows, and I'm certain it will take some getting
used to.  The terminology is different as well from what I can tell.  Human
nature being what it is, I think we relate to what we know, which is Windows
for most of us, so the Mac will take some getting used to.  I think that's
where much of the controversy has come from about the Mac, as reviewers
often try and compare it with Windows, it's not Windows.  I compare this to
becoming blind after having vision for many years.  If that happens, one
remembers how one did things in the past, and that can either be an
advantage or not.  If one is blind from the start, that's all he or she
knows and hopefully learns to function as an individual who is blind from
the start.  I view one's computer useage in a similar fashion.  If one
starts with the Mac, it will likely be easier to learn, as one has no other
experience on which to draw.  But for thos of us who have used Windows for
many years,  we have some re-learning to do, that is the challenge.

Les

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:34 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

Doug,

Now how am I supposed to know which OS is sufficiently accessible for me,
once I make my list? How on earth would I know?I'm just into a lot of
writing using Word, no other Office programs at all, email like this, and of
course where would Audible and Amazon and The New York times be without my
visits? but that's about it.

So? Now that I have enumerated those expectations, how to find out if a Mac
will be sufficient? I already know how Windows and Jaws works for me. For
years and years.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

I don't think nearly all blind Mac users are techie types.  VoiceOver
is fairly powerful but not as powerful as JAWS at this point, but I
suspect it's the techie types that would want the power. :)

That said, I still think the question of whether you should use a Mac
or a Windows machine is not so much about general accessibility, but
more about accessibility for the specific things you need to do.  If
you need to browse web sites, you can do that on either platform.  I
find the Mac's Safari slightly faster at filling out Peapod orders and
quite effective on Youtube, but I'm faster at managing company time
sheets in Internet Explorer under Windows.  Editing works in both
places, though you have to understand the difference between how the
Mac and Windows assistive technology reports the location and
navigation of the cursor.  If you actually need to handle a lot of
Microsoft Office files, I think many can be viewed on the Mac but not
written there accessibly.  Other applications like mail, instant
messaging, calendars, audio editing, scanning, etc., I can't comment
so fluently about.

So I would recommend this process for deciding which platform to stay
with:

1. List the things you need to do with it, including file formats
where applicable.  Example:  Read and write Word .docx files, read but
not write PowerPoint presentations, handle mail, fill out web forms,
manage appointments.

2. For each of those, find out how well they can be done with
assistive technology on each platform.

3. Weigh in the inevitable money factor to settle any ties. :)

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:11:47PM -0400, albert griffith wrote:
A few weeks ago I discussed the Mac Verses Windows question thoroughly and
decided I'd wait until next year at the least.  The group of successful
users is mainly comprised of techie types.  Before I hoist Windows in to the
rafters I want the Mac software to be fully operational.  I don't believe
this will be true until next year at the earliest and I can afford to wait
since I have one notch left on my  SMA for my copy of jaws.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Les Kriegler
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:49 AM
To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

Hi Joel,

Interesting you're bringing this up.  Actually, I've decided that when the
upgrade to the Mac Operating System comes out, I'm purchasing a Mac laptop.
Many of their laptops come with 4 Gigs of memory, and I plan to install
Windows 7 on the laptop as well.  There is software that allows one to
switch back and forth Between Mac and Windows without the need to re-boot
one's system.  So I'm taking the plunge, likely next month.  I've started
reading up on the Mac and on the screen reader called VoiceOver and I like
what I've read thus far.  Obviously, I cannot give you impressions of using
a Mac yet, although I've confident I'll learn it when I start working on it.
I took a year to learn Doss, I'll invoke the same plan with learning the
Mac.  Eventually, I hope to be in a position to train others, as I suspect
there will be a need for this to occur.

Les

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:16 AM
To: GUI-Talk
Subject: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

as I've sort of watched the Mac evolving over the past couple of years in
the sense that its operating system seems to be getting close to achieving
self-voicing screen reader capability that an experienced jaws guy like me
might be able to take seriously, I'm asking for some thoughts.

Aren't there a couple of folks on this list who actually, already, *are* Mac
desktop or laptop users? How do you folks like your Macs? And Albert, I know
you've been toying with the idea of going Mac, same as I'm expressing now.
Just seems interesting to think about, now that I allow myself. This in
spite of the fact that I have Jaws 11 already paid for on my SMA, but my
goodness. I guess if I could get myself a brand new computer that didn't
heed it, would be nice to give away my old PC with new Jaws on it. To the
Braille Institute or something.

Nice ,anyway, a thought experiment. How about it, Mackies?

I have one more question, also to do with my daydreaming, but I'll post it
separately.

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