[gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops

Joel Deutsch jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
Sun Aug 16 03:57:50 UTC 2009 

Eek! That's a little scary. To be honest, and here you'd have to be 
knowledgeable about Jaws to get this, someone on the JFW list just brought 
up the command for making jaws speak what's on the clipboard. It involves a 
stretch I really don't care for. Let's see, what was it. Insert (jaws key on 
numpad), right Windows key, and letter x. That's a piano player sort of 
stretch on my right hand. There are some other keystrokes for jaws that are 
at least that stretchy, but none that involve *five* keys! Wow. and yes, a 
laptop was what had piqued my interest, so this is interesting to learn. I 
have a feeling I'm not going to become a hip and groovy Mac guy. Too much 
learning curve and other impediments. I've got stuff to do, and that kind of 
learning time isn't a hobby I care to pursue.

Interesting. Very interesting.
isn't intereting stretfchy  somn----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops


As far as VoiceOver keystrokes go, yes some are up to five keys at
once.  The hand gets used to the common ones though, since the keys
are nicely grouped, at least on my standard aluminum keyboard.  So
for example, Control Command Option H, for moving to the next header,
can be typed simply enough by typing the H with the right hand and
spanning Control/Option/Command, which are right in a row, with the
left.  Looking in reverse for a header adds a Shift to this, but
all that means is you spread your left hand a bit farther, as the
Shift is right above the Control/Option/Command row.  Quite a number
of more complex keystrokes can be avoided by using the Commander
feature, which makes the number pad into a sort of navigation center,
as we see with other screen readers.

My concern here is with Mac laptops, at least some of which only have
one Control key.  Nearly all VoiceOver commands use Control Option, so
much so that we call the combination Control-Option-W "VoiceOver W" or
just "VO W."  Having no Control key on the right side would seem to me
a serious disadvantage.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 09:06:49PM -0500, David Andrews wrote:
> There is software you can install on the Mac called Fusion.  It creates
> one or more virtual machines, basically computers created with software.
> You can install Windows on one of the virtual machines, run JAWS, Word
> etc., all within the virtual machine.  It can be tricky to get up and
> working though, so unless you have someone to help you, it might not be a
> good idea.
>
> You also described the Mac as near self voicing.  Maybe, maybe not.  As
> you do things you are going to want to reread things, explore etc., so
> nothing is really self voicing.  My impression, from doing a little,
> talking to others, and reading is that in some instances, voice-over has
> a lot and/or some complicated key sequences.
>
> Dave
>
> At 12:04 PM 8/14/2009, you wrote:
>> Les,
>>
>> thanks. does the below mean that you'll not only be able to load Windows
>> onto it and run Windows apps if you wish to, but of course that you'll 
>> also
>> be able to load something like Jaws (which is what I use) onto it amongst
>> those Windows apps, so that if you feel too befuddled by the Mac at 
>> first,
>> you can make it perform just like Windows with Jaws, at least in the few
>> Windows apps you've installed?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Les Kriegler" <kriegler at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops
>>
>>
>> Hi Joel,
>>
>> Interesting you're bringing this up.  Actually, I've decided that when 
>> the
>> upgrade to the Mac Operating System comes out, I'm purchasing a Mac 
>> laptop.
>> Many of their laptops come with 4 Gigs of memory, and I plan to install
>> Windows 7 on the laptop as well.  There is software that allows one to
>> switch back and forth Between Mac and Windows without the need to re-boot
>> one's system.  So I'm taking the plunge, likely next month.  I've started
>> reading up on the Mac and on the screen reader called VoiceOver and I 
>> like
>> what I've read thus far.  Obviously, I cannot give you impressions of 
>> using
>> a Mac yet, although I've confident I'll learn it when I start working on 
>> it.
>> I took a year to learn Doss, I'll invoke the same plan with learning the
>> Mac.  Eventually, I hope to be in a position to train others, as I 
>> suspect
>> there will be a need for this to occur.
>>
>> Les
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:16 AM
>> To: GUI-Talk
>> Subject: [gui-talk] Basic inquiry about Mac, including the laptops
>>
>> as I've sort of watched the Mac evolving over the past couple of years in
>> the sense that its operating system seems to be getting close to 
>> achieving
>> self-voicing screen reader capability that an experienced jaws guy like 
>> me
>> might be able to take seriously, I'm asking for some thoughts.
>>
>> Aren't there a couple of folks on this list who actually, already, *are* 
>> Mac
>> desktop or laptop users? How do you folks like your Macs? And Albert, I 
>> know
>> you've been toying with the idea of going Mac, same as I'm expressing 
>> now.
>> Just seems interesting to think about, now that I allow myself. This in
>> spite of the fact that I have Jaws 11 already paid for on my SMA, but my
>> goodness. I guess if I could get myself a brand new computer that didn't
>> heed it, would be nice to give away my old PC with new Jaws on it. To the
>> Braille Institute or something.
>>
>> Nice ,anyway, a thought experiment. How about it, Mackies?
>>
>> I have one more question, also to do with my daydreaming, but I'll post 
>> it
>> separately.
>>
>>
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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com 
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
In healthy competition, the best battles are not for status, but for 
excellence;
and the battles are not between me and you,
but between you and you, and between me and me.  (08/15/2009)

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