[gui-talk] Accessibility Issues in Skype 4.1 - WWAS:Re: JAWS scripts for Skype 4.1 posted
albert griffith
albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jun 8 02:50:58 UTC 2009
Thanks for the clarification. I never worried about removing older scripts
before but I wanted to be sure in case there was something different about
these. If I were more confident as a techie I'd have known better, smile.
-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Doug Lee
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:41 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Accessibility Issues in Skype 4.1 - WWAS:Re: JAWS
scripts for Skype 4.1 posted
No, you don't need to remove one set of scripts to install the other,
but after you install one set, the older set will no longer load. The
version you just installed over it will. This is only a problem for
people that want to keep switching between Skype versions frequently.
That is a real problem for some, but one I don't have a solution for
at this point.
On Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 08:42:04PM -0400, albert griffith wrote:
Hi Doug, in the post below you say, " Unfortunately there is no way to have
scripts for both Skype 3.8 and
Skype 4.x active at once." Does this mean we should remove the scripts from
3.8 before installing those for 4.1?
-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Doug Lee
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:41 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Accessibility Issues in Skype 4.1 - WWAS:Re: JAWS
scripts for Skype 4.1 posted
Sorry this answer is so belated, catching up with list mail today...
The actual History list does not allow selective deletion. You just
set up how much history you want to keep by using Options. The
Conversation list does allow selective deletion of course.
As for context menus, I only noticed that problem a few days ago, and
it's on my list to mention. It breaks NVDA and probably other screen
readers, but JAWS works around it. A list of the context menus that
are a problem might help, but I hope to look at that myself.
I have not looked at the history list with NVDA yet. I have now
written down that issue for examination.
Unfortunately there is no way to have scripts for both Skype 3.8 and
Skype 4.x active at once, and largely because of Skypewatch but also
for other reasons, this is not so easily fixed. This is one reason I
eliminated jsl files in the Skype 4.1 scripts, but that's only one
part of the problem.
I happened to see that you privately asked me about speed dials.
I doubt speed dials come back, but that is a guess, not official word.
As you may recall, I'm keeping our communication in public places.
That is a permanent arrangement, which you also may recall. I am,
though, glad for the feedback you offer here, as I think it helps both
me and others. I in fact try to keep most of my communications about
Skype on lists, just so it can benefit more people and allow others to
answer questions faster if I get really busy. This last week, I got
so busy I signed out of Skype entirely for most of the time. :)
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 02:29:35PM -0400, Chipmunks wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for the clarification. I do not remember if I was in the
> history or the conversation list yesterday. Today I did go into the
> history from the view menu and found that I cold not select and delete
> items there at all. I also thought I was losing more marbles as the
> context menu entry to "select all" was nowhere to be found. If this item
> could be raised with skype that it would be good to be able to clear
> items in the history or delete it all that would be good. i do like to
> keep a history of calls and chats for reference for a little while but I
> do want to be able to control what I keep and how long.
>
> I also ran skype .41 with vnda latest snapshot today and ran into a
> couple of accessibility issues.
>
> For one, the context menu on the contact list in some places does not
> speak but only gives the item numbur of the selected entry. I went
> looking for a "simplified graphics" choice in case there were graphics in
> the menu interfering with reading but the "extended keyboard navigation"
> was the only accessibility choice I was given and I had this on. I had
> skype set to compat view and the menus to display in classic style and
> the regular program menus read fine but the context menu does not.
>
> Also with nvda, the history list does not read. I do not have a clue why
> that is but why it reads in jaws.
>
> when I use skype 4.1 with jaws, I use it with no scripts or rather with
> the jaws scripts for 3.8 running and not even the latest build of those
> as I use a version that still uses the old skypewatch that i like better.
> is there a way to get jaws to differentiate between the diffrent skype
> versions and load the correct scripts or load no scripts?
>
> Thanks much and God Bless,
>
> Doris
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:58 PM 5/28/2009 -0400, you wrote:
>> We may have ourselves an accidental mixing of apples and oranges here.
:-)
>>
>> The Space-to-select, then Del-to-delete suggestion I gave is only for
>> the Contact and Conversations lists, not the History list. The
>> behavior of Del is the same in either Compact or Default views; you
>> still have to select first. I consider this a bug in Skype 4, but one
>> I keep forgetting to raise with sufficient volume since I scripted
>> around it by taking over the Del key myself.
>>
>> When you said you were trying to avoid a long history of calls, you
>> may have just meant a long Conversation list. If so, the above
>> applies; but if not, the below does.
>>
>> History does not allow deletion in Skype 4 as it did in Skype 3 as far
>> as I know. I think you can choose how long to keep it, and maybe
>> setting that to "never" will clear it out; but I don't know a way to
>> pick off specific items. That would be why Select All + Delete didn't
>> do anything for you in that list. The History list is the one you get
>> from Ctrl+8 with scripts running, or Alt+3 without.
>>
>> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 08:45:08AM -0400, Chipmunks wrote:
>> > Thanks for this.
>> >
>> > Actually, no matter how "netcentric" I might be, I do just what you
>> > suggest and download once and then use a usb stick and sneakernet to
get
>> > the installer to our other computers and install on there. i've never
>> > downloaded the "stub installer" but always the complete package. this
is
>> > also in case i need to go back to an installer later after it no longer
>> > is the current version - but in a land where internet flat rates are
>> > still not as commonplace as elsewhere, it just is a waste of bandwidth
>> > and internet traffic to download a file more than once.
>> >
>> > I did listen to the FS cast featuring you on skype 4.0 and i actually
>> > did archive that part of the podcast in my skype archive. I hope
someone
>> > out there will do a full tutoiral on skype 4.1 at some point. For now I
>> > am in no hurry to upgrade.
>> >
>> > Thanks on the tip with using the space bar on the conversation items to
>> > select them. I set skype 4.1 to compact view and classic menus but the
>> > arrow keys didn't seem to select anything either. However, I would have
>> > expected that selecting the "select all" entry from the context menu
>> > would and i had done that before attempting to delete my test call
>> > history but it still did not delete anything. I just do not want to
>> > accumulate a whole big history of unwanted and unneeded entries.
>> >
>> > I'll go and play and explore some more at some point. I'm thankful for
>> > the portable versions that allow us to do that without corrupting an
>> > existing install.
>> >
>> > Thanks again and God Bless,
>> >
>> > Doris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 07:10 AM 5/28/2009 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> I didn't notice the download was the new stub version, but I'm not
>> >> sure why that's a problem unless you're trying to download once and
>> >> then install on non-Internet computers. For Skype, being rather
>> >> Internet-centric, I doubt that's what you were up to. :-)
>> >>
>> >> I know of no full tutorial on Skype, at least if Skype's own help
>> >> facilities don't do it; and I have not looked at those. I did discuss
>> >> Skype 4.0 in an FSCast about a month ago.
>> >>
>> >> The Delete key works with scripts to delete 4.1 conversations, but at
>> >> this point, not without unless you first select the conversation.
>> >> Press Space, then Del, to get rid of one. The reason for this anomaly
>> >> is that Skype does not "select" a conversation, or a Contact list
>> >> entry for that matter, as you arrow to it. This is because the
>> >> "selected" entry is the one shown in the conversation part of the
>> >> screen in Default view, and selecting on arrows would significantly
>> >> slow navigation through the lists.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 06:48:20PM -0400, Chipmunks wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > A few remarks on this.
>> >> >
>> >> > The download page you give for the skype 4.1 beta only has the
active
>> >> > setup file that is about 2 megs in size and not the full 22-meg
setup
>> >> > package. i needed to find this by googling for it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I found myself a portable version of skype 4.1 beta rather than
>> >> > installing it over my current 3.8 install.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had a quick look and runthru of the settings and the program ad
found
>> >> > it usable. I did not install the latest scripts for the program as
>> I want
>> >> > to continue using skype 3.8 as my main version for now and also
wantted
>> >> > to see how skype 4.1 fares without scripts and with such offerings
as
>> >> > nvda.
>> >> >
>> >> > I find skype 4.1 different enough from 3.8 - even with all the
changes
>> >> > like switching to compact mode that make it similar to 3.8 - that
>> i would
>> >> > like to have a tutoiral for it.
>> >> > Is there any such tutoiral or podcast out or in the works on skype
4.1?
>> >> > Finally, i have a direct question on the use of 4.1: How do I delete
>> >> > entries under conversations for a given contact? I tried my delete
key
>> >> > but this did not work. i called the echo service several times
during my
>> >> > setup of 4.1 and wanted to get rid off those entries but found I
could
>> >> > not.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks much and God Bless,
>> >> >
>> >> > Doris
>> >> >
>> >> > At 03:23 PM 5/27/2009 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> >> Exciting news here, news I have been waiting to share for months!
I
>> >> >> have a fair amount to say, so here's a summary: There is a new and
>> >> >> more accessible Skype 4.1 public beta out, and there are scripts to
go
>> >> >> with it. I will first describe the Skype beta, then the scripts
for
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Details:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We have a public beta of Skype 4.1, and there are accessibility
>> >> >> features in it! Accessibility is still an ongoing project, but as
you
>> >> >> will see, some of the problems are fixed, and others are promised
>> >> >> before the next full Skype release.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Notes on Skype 4.1 itself:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Skype 4.1 beta contains accessibility improvements, including
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - More items in tab order.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - More items with meaningful names.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - The Accessibility submenu of Tools again, with Extended
>> >> >> Keyboard Navigation under it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As an example, you can now set mood text just by tabbing to the
proper
>> >> >> control in the main Skype window, pressing Space, editing your
text,
>> >> >> and pressing Enter.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In addition, I spot the following commitment in the Skype release
>> >> >> notes, which is a publicly accessible document: Under "Known
Issues":
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Voicemail and File transfer not accessible: this will be
>> >> >> fixed for 4.1 Gold.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So although that is not fixed now, we finally have a promise from
>> >> >> Skype that it will be fixed when Skype 4.1, not beta, comes out.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can get the beta either by going to http://www.skype.com, then
>> >> >> Download, then "Beta versions of Skype," or by going directly to
the
>> >> >> following link:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/windows/beta/
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>From that page, no matter how you got there, use the "Download
Now"
>> >> >> link to get the program.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The technical info for this version, from that page:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Version 4.1.0.130 File size 22 MB. Beta release. Release
date:
>> >> >> May 27, 2009. File name: SkypeSetup-Beta.exe
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One warning: After clicking "I agree Install button" in the
>> >> >> installer, another page will appear, probably silently, with a
>> >> >> checkbox asking permission to install Google Chrome. This is much
>> >> >> like the "Install the Google Toolbar" option we've seen in older
>> >> >> Skypes. It may default to checked, so I recommend tabbing around
and
>> >> >> unchecking that box if you don't want Google Chrome, which is a
>> >> >> browser whose accessibility is unknown to me. The Skype installer
>> >> >> will remember your setting for that checkbox in future, but it's
>> >> >> always a good idea to watch for it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now, about the scripts:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There is a new script set posted at
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.dlee.org/skype/
>> >> >>
>> >> >> for Skype 4.1 beta. It will probably also work with Skype 4.0,
though
>> >> >> I have not tried that recently. I am calling this version 4.1a,
>> >> >> meaning the first Skype script release for Skype 4.1.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> NOTE: I recommend restarting JAWS once after installing these
>> >> >> scripts, because the names of a number of global variables have
>> >> >> changed, and the old ones can only be cleared out of memory by a
JAWS
>> >> >> restart..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The rest of this message will describe new features of the scripts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> First, user-visible changes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A double JAWSKey+F1, the standard command for accessing JAWS
>> >> >> script help documents, will take you to an online page at my web
site
>> >> >> describing how to use Skype 4.1 with the scripts. This feature is
>> >> >> long overdue, and though I'm sure the online documentation is in
need
>> >> >> of updating, it is at least a central starting point, better than
>> >> >> having to fish for info among all the release notes for the various
>> >> >> Skype script releases.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> F2, typed from within a conversation, will turn on and off JAWS'
>> >> >> announcement of timestamps with text messages, if you have enabled
the
>> >> >> display of timestamps in Skype itself. This is similar to how F2
>> >> >> works in AIM. The virtual display of text messages will also be
>> >> >> affected.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Alt+Numpad5 will now say the position of the current message in
>> >> >> addition to its contents.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Users that sometimes heard nothing when backspacing in a text
message
>> >> >> input box should now hear characters as usual. This script update
>> >> >> fixes a few possible causes of that problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> JAWS 9 no longer beeps on arrows, SayLine, etc., in the History
list.
>> >> >> The History list is also more appropriately named (perhaps not in
>> >> >> Braille though).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> JAWS auto-announces questions like the one about holding the
>> current call
>> >> >> to make a new one. Also, Ctrl+Shift+E deals with that window
instead
>> >> >> of the Accounts panel when it applies. Controls in such a box can
now
>> >> >> be reached with the Tab key, as Skype itself made this possible.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Double Ctrl+numbers no longer switch to the JAWS cursor and
>> restrict it.
>> >> >> A double Ctrl+6 focuses the profile area, and it also works in more
>> >> >> windows.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you leave the new Chrome menus in effect in Skype, the scripts
will
>> >> >> try to make them speak. Turning these off is still recommended
>> >> >> though.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you open the Help/About box and try to move to another window or
>> >> >> application without first closing it, the scripts will close it for
>> >> >> you to keep it from interfering with other windows and
applications.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any Braille display users who sometimes heard "Unknown function
call
>> >> >> to JCPBrailleHelper" should no longer hear that message.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Users of JAWSKey+V may have noticed that the clipboard could get
>> >> >> overwritten with a funny-looking string of verbosity option info in
>> >> >> certain situations. This is now fixed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The script installer includes some attempts to fix a problem
wherein
>> >> >> some users are told they have no valid JAWS language folder.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Finally, internal changes, visible mostly to coders and curious
souls
>> >> >> who look at the code:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This script version officially ends my use of jsl files in public
>> >> >> projects, which means fewer files in the script set. Any jsl files
>> >> >> from previous scripts will not be deleted when you install this
>> >> >> update, however.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The names of most functions and global variables used in the Skype
>> >> >> scripts have been changed to make them unique enough not to collide
>> >> >> with other scripts that one might have running alongside the Skype
>> >> >> scripts. This was not a frequent problem but did happen to some
>> >> >> people.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A number of functions from Skype 3 scripts no longer used in Skype
4
>> >> >> have been removed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
>> http://www.dlee.org
>> >> >> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> >> >> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> >> >> "Believe, when you are most unhappy, that there is something for
you
>> >> >> to do in the world. So long as you can sweeten another's pain, life
is
>> >> >> not in vain." --Helen Keller
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>> >> >> gui-talk:
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
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t
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > gui-talk mailing list
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>> >> for gui-talk:
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
http://www.dlee.org
>> >> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> >> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> >> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was
>> >> done." --Helen Keller
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> --
>> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
>> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> No one alive is beyond hope; every second of life is a chance.
>> (08/29/02)
>>
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>
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SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere."
- Anne Morrow Lindbergh {American Author}
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SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
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(03/28/05)
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