[gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

Joel Deutsch jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
Sat May 9 16:13:10 UTC 2009 

I'm really sorry. Honestly. Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm having a CT 
scan with contrast Wednesday of a benign tumor on my left vestibular nerve. 
Now, this ought not to have anything thing to do with the various neural 
loci of memory fregmanents and recall, but I'm sure he'll tell me if memory 
lapses are among my additional problems.

Again, very sorry.
contrst nconvenicne. incon----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


If you weren't experiencing a temporary problem of some kind you wouldn't
have forgotten the nature of the question you asked which called in to
question my response.  It's happened two other times in the last say 36
hours.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:35 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

I'm not likely to arrow around. I don't like to spend that much time trying
to read emails if they're a big hassle. If I were using quoting, here's the
conventional arrangement I'd use:

You Just type something like "You wrote:" or something like that. Please
back up and listen to the puntuation marks, please. Thanks. then you hit
Enter. Then paste in the bit you're responding to. Hit enter twice in order
to produce a blank line for division and then write what you wanna write in
reply to that. Then go on. personally, I don't really like to spend time
doing  that. And I don't have a memory problem. sorry it seems that way to
you.

before you typere----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


Not everyone will answer questions with your exact phrasing.  How did I know
you wouldn't be able to understand my answer?  As I said in my last post I
think I'll copy your questions next to my answers so when your memory fails
you there'll be a reminder within arrowing distance.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:35 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

couched, schmouched. I know what you mean. A few extra words, such as
""you'll probably see ads for it all over the place when you get there,"
would be more like what I'd have written. But I'm me and you're you. Thank
goodness, right? Let a hundred flowers bloom in the courtyard, and all that.

:-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


Your question was: so I just have to go to microsoft.com and look for it
there?  So you can see my answer was couched contextually.  You'll find
advertising for it all over the place on that site.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:49 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

Just one question. Where would I expect to keep encountering advertising for

the new browser? I hardly ever go to Yahoo for anything, and I just happened

to visit its home page for what must be the first time in years. That's the
only place I've found advertising or any kind of plug for IE 8. What is it
you're referring to, where this advertising is all over the place? Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


Yes.  You'll probably see lots of advertising for it since it's new.  You
might also get the same availability through your windows update feature.  A
link should come up saying review other updates or something like that.  If
you go the route of the Ms. Web site once you press the download link you'll
see all kinds of informational material before tha actual download link.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:47 AM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

So I just have to go to Microsoft.com, look for a link to Downloads or
Upgrades or something like that, and just keep going where my knows leads
me?
Tjat sounds easy enough.
.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


Often you'll find what's new facts in one of the first files in the
program's help files.  In the case of I.E. they offer them on the way to the
download and  again when the new version first opens.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 7:51 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

albert,

Please explain where one finds these explanations about the new version, the

notes and the articles. I'm not familiar with where to look for those
things. Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


I didn't say at work I said for work which means the origin of that work
isn't relevant.  If you upgrade as the new versions are released the
learning curve is less than it would be if you waited two or three versions.
To make an informed decision I'd think reading the release notes would be a
plus.  Then I'd look at articles relating to the reliability of the upgrade.
If there are features you need upgrade.  An informed consumer is the wisest.
-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:50 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

Well, some of us consider what we do at home the equivalent of work, like
me. I don't know enough about those accelerators you mentioned or anything
besides supposedly more security (I thought they were always addressing
that, with updates) and if I have to take hours of time learning to use this

thing just so I can keep living, I'm not eager to do that until I absolutely

have to.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:


Keep in mind 8 has the ability to operate as 7 under conditions you can
define.  This allows you to take advantage of new technologies and revert to
older means when necessary.  If no one uses it we won't get the newer web
2.0 and other tech innovations developed because people won't be using them.
It's a difficult decision but someone has to do it.  I wouldn't upgrade if I
needed the browser for work.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Pepper
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 2:34 AM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:

All versions of IE 8 will not work with JAWS 8. IE 8 only works partially
with JAWS 9.  Even with JAWS 10 you have problems.  If you are blind do not
upgrade to IE 8 until they work out the kinks in the program.  IE 8 is new,
you should not be the guinee pig for new technology.

Not that many webmasters know how to utilize the new accessibility features
in IE 8 and given the general lack of accessibility in websites to begin
with, why should you expect better?

But if you do want to keep IE 8 you could try using WebAnywhere which is an
ARIA based screen reader.  Other than that you are out of luck.

James

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 4:51 PM, albert griffith <
albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> When you say uninstall IE 8 do you mean Yahoo's version or any version?
> thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of James Pepper
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 3:58 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] An I.E. 8 inquiry:
>
> IE 8 uses the new system called ARIA which is a method of describing form
> fields under a new standard for accessibility. It makes it possible for
> people to claim they are making their content accessible using AJAX but
> they
> don't have to think about the practical aspects of accessible design.
The
> problem is nobody really knows how to design for this yet and so even
> though
> JAWS 10 is designed to work in this new format, they have not worked out
> all
> the bugs.  IE 8 does not work with JAWS 8 and has serious limitations with
> JAWS 9.
>
> The unfortunate thing is that Yahoo has completely disregarded the blind
> and
> forced IE 8 upon all of its customers.  You have to uninstall IE 8 to get
> your screen readers to work properly, that is the only solution.
>
> The big problem here is that designers cannot design webpages for
> accessibility under the old standards, they are hardly going to be able to
> do it for the new standards.
>
> James Pepper
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