[gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their claims against GW Micro
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Thu Nov 1 16:16:45 UTC 2012
Allen,
I have very limited exposure to the MAC, but my understanding is that you can likely do basic document writing and editing. My
understanding is that there are some challenges with spreadsheets although there are workarounds. I think it is pretty difficult
to make general comparisons between MACs and Windows PC's, though, because they are different in many ways. From what I have
heard and experimented with, it is probably fair to say that complex Word documents and spreadsheets that go beyond the basic
level are challenges on the MAC. Frankly, though, it really isn't fair to hang that problem completely on MACs as such. If you
use software in Windows other than Microsoft Office to handle Microsoft Office documents, you will find there are some rough edges
even if such software is accessible. To some degree, this is where there are drawbacks on the MAC, that one has to use other
software to read Microsoft Office documents. As you know, there is Word for the MAC, but it isn't accessible as far as I know.
This is generally because Word is written using a code base that was used before VoiceOver became available and would require
substantial rewriting in order to make it accessible. It is probably of questionable interest for Microsoft to spend the
resources to do that even though you and I might think they should. From what I've seen, TextEdit is a pretty powerful Word
Processor but is sometimes overlooked since the term "Text Editor" on the Windows Platform usually indicates software more like
NotePad.
What I'm afraid you will find is that too many Windows users write the MAC off completely, while too many MAC users believe that
if the MAC doesn't perform a given function it isn't important. <smile> However, categorizing the MAC as being for play and
Windows PC's being for work is not really accurate. I would also add that the I Pad is being very quickly incorporated into
corporations as devices for displaying reports and interacting with data. It is happening very quickly where I work. This could
change how the MAC is viewed by employers. We live in interesting times.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 14:07:45 +0000, Hoffman, Allen wrote:
>I really want to be able to do basic document writing and editing.
>I don't just want to play with it.
>Frankly I am hoping to write Xcode apps for Iphones on it.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Stivers
>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:43 AM
>To: 'Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and
eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>I have a Mac, but most of what I do is formatting and laying out moderately complex documents and spreadsheets. I can't even
navigate what I make in Word and Excel when I open the files in Pages and Numbers. I would love to hear that I am missing
something and handling formatting of documents and spreadsheets on the Mac works, but until then I work on the PC and play on the
Mac.
>All that said, the Mac sure is fun to play with
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rafal Charlampowicz
>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:02 AM
>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and
eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>I was going to have Mac at my work, but it turned out that I needed to use MS Outlook and a few other MS applications. I learnt
that Voice Over supports none of them.
>So deciding on Mac on should check if he or shee still would be able to do his or her job.
>--
>Rafal
>-----Oryginalna wiadomosc-----
>From: Ray Foret Jr
>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:41 PM
>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice
>Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their
>claims against GW Micro
>www.blindcooltech.com
>and search for "Mac demo"
>Those recordings are a little out of date now; but, they do provide an
>excelent overview of the basics. Heck, that's how I learned. IN fact,
>those recordings are how I decided to go for the Mac over windows 7.
>Sincerely,
>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>Skype name:
>barefootedray
>On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:22 AM, "Hoffman, Allen" <Allen.Hoffman at HQ.DHS.GOV>
>wrote:
>> I believe head to head NVDA and JAWS are nearing one another.
>> I keep thinking NVDA will pull ahead, but I don't believe it has just yet.
>> My personal opinion of voiceOver on Mac is that it is darned difficult to
>> learn, but may provide pretty good accessibility. I found IPhone hard to
>> learn when learning only on Ipad, but when I used IPhone it seemed easier.
>> I can do most things now on IPhone, but can't translate this knowledge
>> well to the Mac environment. If someone has a tutorial that isn't
>> excruciatingly slow that teaches voiceOver and Mac at the same time and is
>> not feature by feature based, e.g. there are a lot of walk throughs which
>> teach invidiaul features, but I think I need a ground up tutorial better
>> than that built in to the VoiceOver itself, please post an URL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Arrigo
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:28 PM
>> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>
>> As far as whether the expensive screen readers have better application
>> support, it depends on what apps you are using. For scanning, that's easy,
>> docuscan plus has a version for the mac.
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Again, I would challenge your assertion that a Mac can do things better
>>> than a Windows computer. For instance, there is no Mac text to speech
>>> app that is remotely comparable to Open Book or Kurzweil 1000. And if
>>> Macs are so superior to Windows machines, why haven't they been embraced
>>> by business users and government agencies? You still get what you pay
>>> for. While the Mac with Voice Over and the free and low cost commercial
>>> screen readers can do many things well, they nevertheless lack the
>>> panaply of features and compatibility with third-party programs that the
>>> more expensive commercial screen readers offer.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>>> To: <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, the mac is my primary computing platform for home use. Some may
>>>> disagree with me here, and that's fine, but, I think the days of the
>>>> expensive screen reader are numbered anyway. We now have system access
>>>> for windows at a much cheaper price, and NVDA is free and continues to
>>>> get better and better. We also have voiceover on the mac which does
>>>> things as good as the windows screen readers and in some cases better.
>>>> Microsoft has also included a much better version of narrator in Windows
>>>> 8. The reasons for purchasing the expensive screen readers are simply
>>>> disappearing.
>>>> I think as time goes by, more and more computing will take place on
>>>> mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets. Many of these provide
>>>> accessibility out of the box. I'm not saying the desktop or laptop
>>>> computer will be gone next year, but I do think over the next few years
>>>> we will start to see that trend take place.
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> I could not agree more Mike! Spot on. IN fact, it was things such as
>>>>> this along with your Mac recordings that caused me to switch to my Mac
>>>>> back in November of 2009. Justice has truly been served.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Mike Arrigo <n0oxy at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That was definitely a long time coming. Freedom science fiction got
>>>>>> what was coming to them, that law suit never should have been filed in
>>>>>> the first place. First they sued Serotek and then GW-micro. This is
>>>>>> one reason among others why I will never purchase or recommend Freedom
>>>>>> Scientific products, especially when their are much better products
>>>>>> available. A part of me thinks that GW-Micro should counter sue to
>>>>>> recover the costs associated with this, but I guess in a way that
>>>>>> would make them no better. At least Justice was served. The bible has
>>>>>> something very good to say about things like this. I'm paraphrasing
>>>>>> here, but, basically it says that those who try to ensnare and trap
>>>>>> others by digging a hole will fall in to it themselves. I'd say that's
>>>>>> what happened here.
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> The following message appeared on several of GW Micro's public
>>>>>>> lists yesterday. Reference is made to a large MP3 file that can
>>>>>>> be downloaded to hear the arguments. Some had trouble finding the
>>>>>>> file from the URL provided, so later this URL was provided to get
>>>>>>> more closely to the MP3 file:
>>>>
>>>>>>> http://oralarguments.cafc.uscourts.gov/default.aspx?fl=2012-1145.m
>>>>>>> p3
>>>>
>>>>>>> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>>>>
>>>>>>> From: gw-news at gwmicro.com [mailto:gw-news at gwmicro.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:46 AM
>>>>>>> To: gw-news at gwmicro.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US Patent Office
>>>>>>> Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and eliminating
>>>>>>> their claims against GW Micro
>>>>
>>>>>>> In July of 2008 on my first day back in the office after the Sight
>>>>>>> Village conference, someone entered our office and handed me a
>>>>>>> summons and notification of a lawsuit brought on by Freedom
>>>>>>> Scientific against GW Micro. They received a patent for certain
>>>>>>> screen reader features and our response was that Window-Eyes had
>>>>>>> those same basic features several years prior to their patent.
>>>>>>> This was the beginning of a long waste of time and money, which
>>>>>>> finally came to a close last week. GW Micro is vindicated - it's
>>>>>>> over - the court decided in our favor!
>>>>
>>>>>>> I won't provide all the details but in general, the Patent Office
>>>>>>> reexamined their patent at our request and found it to be invalid
>>>>>>> in view of prior art. Both the patent examiner and the Board of
>>>>>>> Appeals in the Patent Office came to the same conclusion
>>>>>>> - the patent is invalid. Despite those results, they asked for a
>>>>>>> federal court to review the decision and again they came to the
>>>>>>> same conclusion as everyone else. You may listen to this final
>>>>>>> argument by going to http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/oral-argument-
>>>>>>> recordings/search/audio.html search for Appeal 2012-1145, listen
>>>>>>> to the MP3 file and you will easily come to the same conclusion as
>>>>>>> everyone else. Their original patent should not have been granted
>>>>>>> in the first place and without the patent, there are no grounds for
>>>>>>> their lawsuit against GW Micro. If you decide to listen to that
>>>>>>> file, you should be aware that it is a large file, which will take
>>>>>>> some time to download.
>>>>
>>>>>>> We want to thank you all for the many words of encouragement, support
>>>>>>> and prayers that we've received over these past 4 years.
>>>>>>> Not one person ever suggested that we should do anything other
>>>>>>> than fight and defend ourselves. However, the sad fact is that
>>>>>>> actions like this hurt all of us. This caused a waste of dollars and
>>>>>>> time for both our companies, which could have been spent improving
>>>>>>> existing products and developing new ones.
>>>>
>>>>>>> GW Micro chooses to take the path of creating new products,
>>>>>>> features and innovations and our recent release of our Window-Eyes
>>>>>>> 8 public beta illustrates that perfectly. If you haven't done so
>>>>>>> already, I hope you will give it a try. Simply doing that will show
>>>>>>> your support of GW Micro. We promise to continue to work hard and
>>>>>>> conduct business in an honest and proper fashion. The reputation of
>>>>>>> GW Micro will never be litigation instead of innovation.
>>>>
>>>>>>> ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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