[gui-talk] Federal Circuit Courtaffirmed theUS PatentOffice Decisioninvalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating theirclaims against GW Micro

Hoffman, Allen Allen.Hoffman at HQ.DHS.GOV
Thu Nov 1 16:58:25 UTC 2012 

I have found it nearly impossible to learn the operation so far, but will persist.  I don't think learning how to use VoiceOver on Mac is even remotely easy or intuitive.  Could just be me, so to each their own.



-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rafal Charlampowicz
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Courtaffirmed theUS PatentOffice Decisioninvalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating theirclaims against GW Micro

Sure, I just wanted to say that one should think twice before replacing PC with Mac.
I was lucky learning on time about this Outlook and MS Office issue, otherwise I would be in trouble.
People who recommend Mac as very accessible rarey say that MS applications which are used in many companies are not accessible in their Mac versions.
So Mac can be a good computer for home use, but not necessarily for your work place.

--
Rafal






-----Oryginalna wiadomość-----
From: Steve Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 5:24 PM
To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Courtaffirmed theUS PatentOffice Decisioninvalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating theirclaims against GW Micro

As I stated in another note, it is fair to say that Microsoft Office products are not accessible on the MAC, but it probably is not fair to say that they are not accessible because VoiceOver doesn't support them.  VoiceOver probably can't support them as they are written.  We have lots of software on the Windows platform that screen readers simply can't support for one reason or another.  An example is older versions of Open Office which did not work with screen readers on Windows even with Java support.
That seems to be changing, but there are still rough edges to say the least.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 14:02:11 +0100, Rafal Charlampowicz wrote:

>I was going to have Mac at my work, but it turned out that I needed to 
>use MS Outlook and a few other MS applications. I learnt that Voice 
>Over supports none of them.
>So deciding on Mac on should check if he or shee still would be able to 
>do his or her job.

>--
>Rafal





>-----Oryginalna wiadomoÅ:Ä!-----
>From: Ray Foret Jr
>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:41 PM
>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS 
>PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and 
>eliminating their claims against GW Micro

>www.blindcooltech.com
>and search for "Mac demo"

>Those recordings are a little out of date now; but, they do provide an 
>excelent overview of the basics.  Heck, that's how I learned.  IN fact, 
>those recordings are how I decided to go for the Mac over windows 7.


>Sincerely,
>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

>Skype name:
>barefootedray

>On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:22 AM, "Hoffman, Allen" 
><Allen.Hoffman at HQ.DHS.GOV>
>wrote:

>> I believe head to head NVDA and JAWS are nearing one another.
>> I keep thinking NVDA will pull ahead, but I don't believe it has just 
>> yet.
>> My personal opinion of voiceOver on Mac is that it is darned 
>> difficult to learn, but may provide pretty good accessibility.  I 
>> found IPhone hard to learn when learning only on Ipad, but when I 
>> used IPhone it seemed easier.
>> I can do most things now on IPhone, but can't translate this 
>> knowledge well to the Mac environment.  If someone has a tutorial 
>> that isn't excruciatingly slow that teaches voiceOver and Mac at the 
>> same time and is not feature by feature based, e.g. there are a lot 
>> of walk throughs which teach invidiaul features, but I think I need a 
>> ground up tutorial better than that built in to the VoiceOver itself, 
>> please post an URL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike 
>> Arrigo
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:28 PM
>> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US 
>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and 
>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>
>> As far as whether the expensive screen readers have better 
>> application support, it depends on what apps you are using. For 
>> scanning, that's easy, docuscan plus has a version for the mac.
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Again, I would challenge your assertion that a Mac can do things 
>>> better than a Windows computer.  For instance, there is no Mac text 
>>> to speech app that is remotely comparable to Open Book or Kurzweil 
>>> 1000.  And if Macs are so superior to Windows machines, why haven't 
>>> they been embraced by business users and government agencies?  You 
>>> still get what you pay for.  While the Mac with Voice Over and the 
>>> free and low cost commercial screen readers can do many things well, 
>>> they nevertheless lack the panaply of features and compatibility 
>>> with third-party programs that the more expensive commercial screen readers offer.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>>> To: <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US 
>>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and 
>>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, the mac is my primary computing platform for home use. Some 
>>>> may disagree with me here, and that's fine, but, I think the days 
>>>> of the expensive screen reader are numbered anyway. We now have 
>>>> system access for windows at a much cheaper price, and NVDA is free 
>>>> and continues to get better and better. We also have voiceover on 
>>>> the mac which does things as good as the windows screen readers and in some cases better.
>>>> Microsoft has also included a much better version of narrator in 
>>>> Windows 8. The reasons for purchasing the expensive screen readers 
>>>> are simply disappearing.
>>>> I think as time goes by, more and more computing will take place on 
>>>> mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets. Many of these 
>>>> provide accessibility out of the box. I'm not saying the desktop or 
>>>> laptop computer will be gone next year, but I do think over the 
>>>> next few years we will start to see that trend take place.
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> I could not agree more Mike!  Spot on.  IN fact, it was things 
>>>>> such as this along with your Mac recordings that caused me to 
>>>>> switch to my Mac back in November of 2009.  Justice has truly been served.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Mike Arrigo <n0oxy at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That was definitely a long time coming. Freedom science fiction 
>>>>>> got what was coming to them, that law suit never should have been 
>>>>>> filed in the first place. First they sued Serotek and then 
>>>>>> GW-micro. This is one reason among others why I will never 
>>>>>> purchase or recommend Freedom Scientific products, especially 
>>>>>> when their are much better products available. A part of me 
>>>>>> thinks that GW-Micro should counter sue to recover the costs 
>>>>>> associated with this, but I guess in a way that would make them 
>>>>>> no better. At least Justice was served. The bible has something 
>>>>>> very good to say about things like this. I'm paraphrasing here, 
>>>>>> but, basically it says that those who try to ensnare and trap 
>>>>>> others by digging a hole will fall in to it themselves. I'd say 
>>>>>> that's what happened here.
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> The following message appeared on several of GW Micro's public 
>>>>>>> lists yesterday.  Reference is made to a large MP3 file that can 
>>>>>>> be downloaded to hear the arguments.  Some had trouble finding 
>>>>>>> the file from the URL provided, so later this URL was provided 
>>>>>>> to get more closely to the MP3 file:
>>>>
>>>>>>> http://oralarguments.cafc.uscourts.gov/default.aspx?fl=2012-1145
>>>>>>> .m
>>>>>>> p3
>>>>
>>>>>>> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>>>>
>>>>>>> From: gw-news at gwmicro.com [mailto:gw-news at gwmicro.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:46 AM
>>>>>>> To: gw-news at gwmicro.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US Patent Office 
>>>>>>> Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and 
>>>>>>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>>>
>>>>>>> In July of 2008 on my first day back in the office after the 
>>>>>>> Sight Village conference, someone entered our office and handed 
>>>>>>> me a summons and notification of a lawsuit brought on by Freedom 
>>>>>>> Scientific against GW Micro.  They received a patent for certain 
>>>>>>> screen reader features and our response was that Window-Eyes had 
>>>>>>> those same basic features several years prior to their patent.
>>>>>>> This was the beginning of a long waste of time and money, which 
>>>>>>> finally came to a close last week.  GW Micro is vindicated - 
>>>>>>> it's over - the court decided in our favor!
>>>>
>>>>>>> I won't provide all the details but in general, the Patent 
>>>>>>> Office reexamined their patent at our request and found it to be 
>>>>>>> invalid in view of prior art.  Both the patent examiner and the 
>>>>>>> Board of Appeals in the Patent Office came to the same 
>>>>>>> conclusion
>>>>>>> - the patent is invalid.  Despite those results, they asked for 
>>>>>>> a federal court to review the decision and again they came to 
>>>>>>> the same conclusion as everyone else.  You may listen to this 
>>>>>>> final argument by going to 
>>>>>>> http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/oral-argument-
>>>>>>> recordings/search/audio.html search for Appeal 2012-1145, listen 
>>>>>>> to the MP3 file and you will easily come to the same conclusion 
>>>>>>> as everyone else.  Their original patent should not have been 
>>>>>>> granted in the first place and without the patent, there are no 
>>>>>>> grounds for their lawsuit against GW Micro.  If you decide to 
>>>>>>> listen to that file, you should be aware that it is a large 
>>>>>>> file, which will take some time to download.
>>>>
>>>>>>> We want to thank you all for the many words of encouragement, 
>>>>>>> support and prayers that we've received over these past 4 years.
>>>>>>> Not one person ever suggested that we should do anything other 
>>>>>>> than fight and defend ourselves.  However, the sad fact is that 
>>>>>>> actions like this hurt all of us.  This caused a waste of 
>>>>>>> dollars and time for both our companies, which could have been 
>>>>>>> spent improving existing products and developing new ones.
>>>>
>>>>>>> GW Micro chooses to take the path of creating new products, 
>>>>>>> features and innovations and our recent release of our 
>>>>>>> Window-Eyes
>>>>>>> 8 public beta illustrates that perfectly.  If you haven't done 
>>>>>>> so already, I hope you will give it a try.  Simply doing that 
>>>>>>> will show your support of GW Micro.  We promise to continue to 
>>>>>>> work hard and conduct business in an honest and proper fashion.  
>>>>>>> The reputation of GW Micro will never be litigation instead of innovation.
>>>>
>>>>>>> ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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