[gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17

[Doug Lee]

I'm pretty sure it's 18, though they did recently put out a 17 update; so maybe they'll do both after all. I'm
just guessing on this one.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 08:25:22PM -0500, Jen via gui-talk wrote:
YAY!!!

I wish I could bold this, but I think you guys get my joy...

* wipes smile off face for a minute*

What update is this, for JAWS 17 or JAWS 18? If it's JAWS 18, I'm authorized
to download it.

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Lee
via gui-talk
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 7:37 PM
To: Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17

I have confirmed with Freedom Scientific and received permission
to announce here that this will be fixed in the JAWS January update
due out at the beginning of the year.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 04:37:10PM -0500, Doug Lee wrote:
Jen, I can reproduce this issue under JAWS 18 with our company instance of
Office 2016.

This looks to me like a JAWS script issue. I will research further, being a
professional JAWS scripter myself,
and write back when I know more. I am also sending this message to Freedom
Scientific myself, though I think
you have also notified them.

Executive summary for FS staff: JAWS freezes when the Office 2016 Word Count
dialog appears. We believe this
is due to a recent Office/Word change, as Office 2016 streams such changes
to users. The problem has been seen
in Windows 8.1 and 10 and on JAWS 17 and 18. The first known instance of
this problem occurred on or near
October 27 of this year.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 03:59:04PM -0500, Jen via gui-talk wrote:
I forced an Office update ... still no go. When I am in the word count box
with Narrator and exit Narrator, JAWS is still dfrozen, and I had to force a
shutdown to get JAWS to restart.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jen [mailto:spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:15 PM
To: 'Jim Fettgather' <jimfettgather at gmail.com>; 'Discussion of the Graphical
User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List' <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17

Another thing. When I told the second techie at Microsoft the "Word Count"
dialogue box was accessible with JAWS until October 27th, she said she
didn't know why it had become inaccessible. Also, when I e-mailed Microsoft
it was their issue and asked if they were going to get an update out to fix
it, they didn't answer my question - they just gave me a case number. What
are your thoughts on this?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jen [mailto:spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 9:06 AM
To: 'Jim Fettgather' <jimfettgather at gmail.com>; 'Discussion of the Graphical
User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List' <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17

One more thing. The second tech disabled add-ins after I told her what the
first tech had said. No cigar there, either. So that leaves me scratching my
head. I wish I knew what caused the problem so I could fix it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Fettgather [mailto:jimfettgather at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 8:59 AM
To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17

I do not use the word count feature often, I am generally satisfied
with the information presented on the status  bar.  This problem seems
to be quite recently introduced, and as someone may have mentioned,
the freeze does not happen with Narrator owr with NVDA.

On 12/16/16, Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Jim and everyone,
>
> Did you always have this problem, or did it crop up suddenly, like with
me?
>
> Thanks for confirming I'm not the only one. I e-mailed Freedom Scientific
a
> few days ago, and they have no information about an update to fix this
> problem. I really hope one comes out because people who need this feature,
> like journalists, have an accessibility issue now.
>
> I'm gonna e-mail Freedom Scientific to see what the best display settings
> for JAWS are on Windows 10 (there is no Tech Support Notice on this on
> their
> tech support page), and change them if necessary. The thing that baffles
me
> is, I don't know what happened to make the word count dialogue box act
this
> way. If it's a Microsoft Office update channel accessibility issue, this
> means Freedom Scientific would have to update JAWS every month, which is
> ridiculous.
>
> Please be careful about calling Microsoft. Like I said in my first post,
> one
> tech seemed JAWS-savvy, and the other one certainly wasn't. After the
> second
> two-hour period of time of sitting on the phone and getting a "is your
> issue
> resolved yet? Here's a case number," I'm done talking to Microsoft.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim
> Fettgather via gui-talk
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 7:18 AM
> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jim Fettgather <jimfettgather at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17
>
> I am running Jaws 18, and this exact same scenario occurs with the word
> count dialog.
> What a complete mess, the whole machine practically locks up
> I would not have believed it until I have just seen it occur with word
> 2016,
>
> what a nightmare!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jen via gui-talk
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:59 PM
> To: 'Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Jen
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Excellent questions!
>
> 1. When I go into the dialogue box, I cannot escape out of the dialogue
> box.
> If I leave JAWS on while in the box, JAWS keeps saying, "word count
> dialogue" and freezing. I can't use any of the keystrokes like Insert, Tab
> and Insert, B. The only way I can get out of the box is if I turn JAWS off
> and press Alt, F4 to close out of the document. When I had the "Word not
> responding" error" before the August update, JAWS read that, but only if I
> closed out of a document.
>
> 2. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling it's Word. I doubt it's a script bug
> because before he end of October, JAWS read the box beautifully, and I
> could
> virtualize it and everything.
>
> 3. System changes. Yes. I didn't know this at the time, but Microsoft
> updates Office 2016 every month so it's like you're on a new "channel." I
> thnk aroundtha time, they came out with a new Office update. Freedom
> Scientific said System Restore wouldn't help this issue. I tried
> uninstalling updates before this happened - no go. I don't have a Braille
> display attached to this computer. When I look at the "free space" column
> on
> "Local Disc," it is 27% full.
>
> 4. The only common thing aboutthe documents is, they're all Word
documents.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Lee
> via gui-talk
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:08 AM
> To: Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Word Count Problem in Word 2016 and JAWS 17
>
> Questions that may help, even if not all are easy to answer lol:
>
> 1. Can you Esc out of the dialog and get speech back, or does your JAWS
> reload itself after a time
> automatically? I'm assuming the latter and that Word shows itself as not
> responding, but your second tech
> would seem to refute this assumption.
>
> 2. When the freeze happens, what process is using the most CPU? This one
> will require sighted assistance to
> verify and is easiest if processes are sorted by the CPU column in the
Task
> Manager. If jfw.exe is using over
> 20% of your CPU consistently at this time while not speaking and while no
> one is typing or mousing, you have
> probably encountered a JAWS script bug. If Word is using over 20% and JAWS
> is using less than 3% or so, I'd
> say you have a Word problem of some sort. If neither is using much but
Word
> says "not responding" on screen,
> it is again probably a Word problem.
>
> 3. Do you remember any system changes made at the time this began?
Examples
> include an upgrade to JAWS or Word
> or Office, driver updates, Windows updates, new or changed hardware like a
> Braille display, a change in
> monitor or screen resolution settings, or even a significant reduction in
> the amount of free disk space.
>
> 4. Pardon me for this one but I'm covering all bases: Assuming you've
tried
> this on multiple documents, is
> there anything common about them, and particularly common since the time
> this problem started? Commonality
> possibilities include author, origin like who sent it, type of content, or
> even format (doc versus docx).
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 08:39:29AM -0500, Jen via gui-talk wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am thirty years old. I have been a JAWS user since JAWS 4. I am now on a
> Windows 10 computer and use JAWS 17.
>
> At the end of October, I started experiencing a problem in Word 2016. The
> "Word Count" dialogue box, the one that says "pages 1, words 1..." became
> illegible by JAWS. When I went to do a word count, JAWS would say, "word
> count dialog," then hang and stop speaking.
>
> I did a test document with a sighted friend present and did a word count,
> and the friend confirmed the box was there and read it to me.
>
> I did a JAWS repair and an online Office repair, as well as setting Office
> to its default settings and recreating my options. I have also reported
> this
> problem to Freedom Scientific. I also talked to Microsoft about it. One
> techie said my problem was a Word problem (the window froze, and the
> program
> stopped responding), another tech said everything was fine because she
> could
> move the word count window around on the screen...
>
> JAWS and Windows 10 users, have you had this problem (pressing CTRL,
Shift,
> G and having the box freeze?) If so, how did you fix it?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
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> --
> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
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> (04/04/2012)
>
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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"It is not the mountain in the distance which makes you want to stop
walking; but the grain of sand in your shoe."  --Anon

-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Characters live to be noticed. People with character notice how
they live." -- Nancy Moser

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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com   http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Innovation is hard to schedule." -- Dan Fylstra