[gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will improve many lives - TechRepublic
Mike Arrigo
n0oxy at charter.net
Fri Feb 10 00:22:43 UTC 2017
Besides NVDA and super nova, Freedom Science Fiction pretty much has a monopoly now since they have bought out AI Squared. I've heard through the grape vine that they are actually going to put an end to window-eyes and only develop jaws moving forward. Guess time will tell on that.
> On Feb 9, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Doug Lee via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I think we can at least agree that it will be interesting if Microsoft adds a scripting-like capability to Narrator someday. I strongly believe that, due to the varying and sometimes very specific needs of people in high-speed
> jobs, the need for scripting will never disappear even if every piece of software becomes legally and practically accessible. The alternative to scripting is self-voicing, which we tend to shy away from in many cases. This
> itself can be a complex and thorny topic, which is why I use the word "interesting" rather than words like "beneficial" or "ideal" because we may disagree on the wisdom of such a move. :)
>
> On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 03:55:22PM -0500, TaraPrakash wrote:
> Well, Dugg. U of all people would known that no screen reader is complete forever. Operating systems change with time and offer fresh accessibility challenges. And then the same applies to particular applications that also come up with updated versions. Take for example of Skype. Jaws did not make it completely accessible. Generous people, which is you, applied your scripting skills and made skype accessible as completely as possible. An example that shows that a thousand dollar screenreader is not and will not forever be accessible.
> If there was enough pressure on Microsoft to make narrator more robust and dependable to access basic functions like browsing, emails, word processing etc. they would hire people like u and use their expertise to make things accessible. That would generate employment for experts like you and would provide a less expensive option for screen reader and may be make America great again. (Okay last one was mean and unnecessary.) But you got my point. It is high time that Microsoft is told that almost every other operating system is out of box accessible. You need to do more in that direction. What is being told here on this list about improved functionality of narrator in the latest windows 10 is heartening. Let's hope I don't have to deal with Freedom Scientific again. Even though their work will remain relevant and useful for other advanced computer users.
> Let's see how it goes.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Doug Lee via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> If one screen reader is both free and complete, an expensive one will naturally lose its market and go away. That's been the theory for years, and quite publicly so. In practice there will probably be less of an immediate
>> impact because of things like learning curves, scripting, pre-existing budgets, etc.; but I think otherwise the theory would hold and a completely sufficient Narrator would eventually replace things like JAWS.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 09:55:27AM -0500, TaraPrakash via gui-talk wrote:
>> I fail to understand all the time why would a robust and reliable narrator would be antithetical to to a third-party software like jaws. Android has a built in accessibility text to speech option. That does not prevent third-party developers from creating applications to make android more accessible
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 9:09 PM, Steve Jacobson via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> As you may already know, some big improvements came out for Narrator last
>>> fall that includes the equivelent of a sort of Virtual Cursor on web pages.
>>> Narrator calls it their scan mode. In addition, according to a Microsoft
>>> BLOG post, there are further substantial changes and improvements coming
>>> this spring. These changes are only available in Windows 10 after the
>>> Anniversary upgrade.
>>>
>>> While I remain somewhat uneasy about a powerful narrator, not because I am
>>> concerned about anybody's bottom line but because I don't know if we would
>>> be adequately served by one scrreen reader, the move seems to be in that
>>> direction. It is not my impression that the NFB is opposing that at this
>>> point.
>>>
>>> I find the newest versions of Narrator to be much more full-featured, and
>>> their newest synthesizers are much more responsive. I still feel it is
>>> somewhat slower to respond than JAWS or Window-Eyes, though, but we'll see
>>> what happens.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> At 06:12 PM 2/8/2017, you wrote:
>>>> We should be able to perform at least the basic functions using narrator.
>>>>
>>>> But NFB will not put pressure on Microsoft to make narrator more
>>>> disabled friendly
>>>> It will harm Freedom Sscientific s bottomline. I feel bad saying
>>>> anything more than nthat
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally can't stand Narrator. JAWS is still my favorite option.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug
>>> Lee
>>>>> via gui-talk
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 1:27 PM
>>>>> To: wcmerritt at gmail.com; Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI
>>>>> Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will
>>>>> improve many lives - TechRepublic
>>>>>
>>>>> For what it's worth, here's my up-to-date view on the idea of Narrator
>>>>> becoming king of Windows screen readers:
>>>>>
>>>>> Quick background:
>>>>>
>>>>> Before Apple, we fought this because it would give Microsoft a monopoly
>>> on
>>>>> our very ability to access most computers, when we had no clear evidence
>>> or
>>>>> commitment that they would continuously prioritize their efforts to keep
>>>>> that accessibility for us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple changed the rules a bit by doing what we opposed Microsoft doing.
>>>>> Apple had no competition though, so there was no loss when they produced
>>>>> VoiceOver; only gain.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft is starting to show some focus on accessibility
>>>> support, though it
>>>>> will take a while before I consider that a reasonable guarantee
>>>> for the long
>>>>> run.
>>>>>
>>>>> My conclusions:
>>>>>
>>>>> We can't be mad by now at Microsoft for trying to do this, whether we
>>>>> support it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> JAWS and NVDA at least will continue to be important for years.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Microsoft knocks them out and we become dependent on Narrator or
>>> another
>>>>> Microsoft offering, time will tell if this was a wise transition. Again,
>>>>> Apple had no competition, but Microsoft always has.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 08, 2017 at 12:00:30PM -0600, Wayne Merritt via gui-talk
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, Narrator is not as feature-rich as JAWS or Window-Eyes. However,
>>>>> I have had JAWS crash or not read certain web elements on web pages,
>>>>> where Narrator or NVDA read them just fine. I heard people say what
>>>>> I'm about to say for the longest time and did not put any stock in it,
>>>>> until it happened to me; for tech people and perhaps the average user
>>>>> today, being able to use at least two screen readers works best. JAWS
>>>>> is still my preferred reader, but from time to time I am in situations
>>>>> where JAWS does not work as well as NVDA. I have also done some
>>>>> accessibility testing, and found this to be especially true. Some
>>>>> pages JAWS completely misses content, and NVDA is more accurate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/8/17, TaraPrakash via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> No matter what Will have to depend onjaws Windows eyes etc. and NFB
>>> will
>>>>>> not put pressure on Microsoft so that accessibility with an operating
>>>>> system
>>>>>> is sufficient and no third-party screen reader is needed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Gregory D. Rosenberg via gui-talk
>>>>>>> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MS has added several improvement for their Narrator. Braille support
>>> and
>>>>>>> mono audio are amongst the enhancements. This is a BETA release for
>>> those
>>>>>>> that choose to receive Windows Updates for Windows 10 on the Windows
>>>>>>> Insider Fast Track.
>>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/new-windows-10-accessibility-features-wi
>>> ll-improve-many-lives/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=24278129322317615159007803282442
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Braille support in Narrator (beta). Now, when you have a USB- or
>>>>>>> serial-based braille display attached to your PC you can use it with
>>>>>>> Narrator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mono audio option. Visually impaired users who use a screen reader
>>> with
>>>>>>> headphones or earbuds can now enable a mono audio option in Ease of
>>>>> Access
>>>>>>> settings ???so the other ear is free to hear conversations and sounds
>>>>> around
>>>>>>> them.???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback Hub improvements. Microsoft is finally tackling the problem
>>> of
>>>>>>> too much duplicate pieces of feedback by letting user combined them in
>>>>>>> collections. Which can, collectively, be up-voted just like an
>>> individual
>>>>>>> piece of feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Night light improvements. The new Night light feature gets another
>>>>>>> improvement in this build, with the night light color temperature
>>> range
>>>>>>> extended to a very red (1200 K) color.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See:
>>> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-10
>>>>> -insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97
>>> <https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-1
>>>>
>>>> 0-insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97>
>>>>>>> for details of Windows 10 build 15025.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The rapidly changing threat landscape today makes it almost
>>> impractical
>>>>>>> to secure our computers and networks against all vulnerabilities.
>>>>> Security
>>>>>>> organizations collectively are seeing nearly four new threats every
>>>>>>> second. Therefore, we must shift our security goals to making our
>>>>>>> computers and networks survive the invevitable attacks."
>>>>>>> Gregory D. Rosenberg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the National
>>>>> Federation
>>>>>>> of the Blind. Your tax deductible donation will appear as "Imagination
>>>>>>> Fund" on your phone bill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and
>>>>> friends
>>>>>>> who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day
>>> we
>>>>>>> work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73' & 75'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Gregory D. Rosenberg AB9MZ
>>>>>>> gregg at ricis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RICIS, Inc.
>>>>>>> 7849 Bristol Park Drive
>>>>>>> Tinley Park, IL 60477-4594
>>>>>>> http://www.ricis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 708-267-6664 Cell
>>>>>>> +1 866-RICIS-77 (+1 866-7424-777) U.S. and Canada
>>>>>>> +1 708-444-2690 Office - local and international
>>>>>>> +1 708-444-1115 Fax (Please call before sending a fax).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>> m
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Connect with me on GoodReads:
>>>>> www.goodreads.com/waynesbooks
>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
>>>>> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>>>>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>>>>> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was
>>>>> done." --Helen Keller
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>> --
>> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
>> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> "Our chief want in life is somebody who will make us do what
>> we can. {Ralph Waldo Emerson}
>>
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>
> --
> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> "You must let me try, for a true soldier does not admit defeat before
> the battle."
> --Helen Keller (in a letter to the president of Radcliffe College)
>
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