[gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will improve many lives - TechRepublic

Sat Feb 11 02:34:30 UTC 2017

I used to argue that screenreaders and speech should be built into products 
off the shelf, and if they had to mass produce it, the cost should come 
down.  But I can't tell you how many blind people argued with me, telling me 
that I was wrong, because doing that would take away choice.  If they did it 
well enough, there should not be a need for choice.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Jacobson via gui-talk
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:02 AM
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: Steve Jacobson
Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will improve 
many lives - TechRepublic

Having been involved in the NFB in Computer Science and a couple of other of
NFB's technical committees for many years, I have never heard anyone say
that policies must not impact anybody's bottom line.  Frankly, I think
people tell you things like that so they don't have to acknowledge that we
may not be looking at answers that are as simple as they seem.  For example,
the level of commitment to accessibility by Microsoft seems pretty high just
now.  Over the years, though, this has gone up and down.  If they are going
to include a screen reader in Windows that is good enough to replace the
others that are available, we have to have a continuing and solid commitment
to keeping that screen reader up to date or it will cost us jobs.  In the
past on my job, I used Lotus Notes for mail and other tasks which has been a
big compettitor to Microsoft Outlook.  I wondered to what degree Microsoft
would be committed to correcting problems with their screen reader and  with
Lotus Notes, especially when accessibility didn't seem to have as important
a place in their priorities.  They might have done all right, but I felt it
was more certain that GW Micro or Freedom Scientific would have no
particular preference as to which software was being used with their
products.  Their commitment to accessibility remained high because
accessibility is where they earned their money.

In the case of Apple, there really was nothing available until VoiceOver
came along.  Years ago there was a screen reader called OutSpoken for the
MAC which was pretty good, but that disappeared years ago.  The market
dynamics of Windows and the Apple operating systems have been very
different, though, although that might be changing.

What we all wish for is to have a screen reader that works perfectly
included with all operating systems.  In reality, there are many factors
that have to be taken into consideration to get the best accessibility at
the most reasonable cost.  We are in a period of change right now and it
could be a good thing for us, but we are going to have to watch closely as
we move forward.  This is true of all platforms and not just Windows.  There
is a good deal of effort now to make operating systems work, but less
thought to making them work as efficiently for us as they work visually.  In
our recreation, this isn't real important, but it is very important in
employment situations.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of TaraPrakash
via gui-talk
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 10:17 AM
To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will
improve many lives - TechRepublic

Yes but influential organizations will have to push towards that. I wish nfb
pushed towards that scenario. But that hurts Freedom Sscientific

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mike Arrigo via gui-talk
<gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hopefully the day will come when third party screen readers are no longer
needed, and narrator will be as full featured as voiceover is on the mac,
really that's the way it should have always been, we should never have had
to pay extra money to access a computer, but for many years this was
accepted as just the way it was. Fortunately that is changing now.
> Original message:
>> As you may already know, some big improvements came out for Narrator last
>> fall that includes the equivelent of a sort of Virtual Cursor on web
pages.
>> Narrator calls it their scan mode.  In addition, according to a Microsoft
>> BLOG post, there are further substantial changes and improvements coming
>> this spring.  These changes are only available in Windows 10 after the
>> Anniversary upgrade.
>
>> While I remain somewhat uneasy about a powerful narrator, not because I
am
>> concerned about anybody's bottom line but because I don't know if we
would
>> be adequately served by one scrreen reader, the move seems to be in that
>> direction.  It is not my impression that the NFB is opposing that at this
>> point.
>
>> I find the newest versions of Narrator to be much more full-featured, and
>> their newest synthesizers are much more responsive.  I still feel it is
>> somewhat slower to respond than JAWS or Window-Eyes, though, but we'll
see
>> what happens.
>
>> Best regards,
>
>> Steve Jacobson
>
>> At 06:12 PM 2/8/2017, you wrote:
>>> We should be able to perform at least the basic functions using
narrator.
>
>>> But NFB will not put pressure  on Microsoft to make narrator more
>>> disabled friendly
>>> It will harm Freedom Sscientific  s bottomline. I feel bad  saying
>>> anything more than nthat
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>
>>>> I personally can't stand Narrator. JAWS is still my favorite option.
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug
>> Lee
>>>> via gui-talk
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 1:27 PM
>>>> To: wcmerritt at gmail.com; Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,
GUI
>>>> Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will
>>>> improve many lives - TechRepublic
>
>>>> For what it's worth, here's my up-to-date view on the idea of Narrator
>>>> becoming king of Windows screen readers:
>
>>>> Quick background:
>
>>>> Before Apple, we fought this because it would give Microsoft a monopoly
>> on
>>>> our very ability to access most computers, when we had no clear
evidence
>> or
>>>> commitment that they would continuously prioritize their efforts to
keep
>>>> that accessibility for us.
>
>>>> Apple changed the rules a bit by doing what we opposed Microsoft doing.
>>>> Apple had no competition though, so there was no loss when they
produced
>>>> VoiceOver; only gain.
>
>>>> Microsoft is starting to show some focus on accessibility
>>> support, though it
>>>> will take a while before I consider that a reasonable guarantee
>>> for the long
>>>> run.
>
>>>> My conclusions:
>
>>>> We can't be mad by now at Microsoft for trying to do this, whether we
>>>> support it or not.
>
>>>> JAWS and NVDA at least will continue to be important for years.
>
>>>> If Microsoft knocks them out and we become dependent on Narrator or
>> another
>>>> Microsoft offering, time will tell if this was a wise transition.
Again,
>>>> Apple had no competition, but Microsoft always has.
>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 08, 2017 at 12:00:30PM -0600, Wayne Merritt via gui-talk
>> wrote:
>>>> Yes, Narrator is not as feature-rich as JAWS or Window-Eyes. However,
>>>> I have had JAWS crash or not read certain web elements on web pages,
>>>> where Narrator or NVDA read them just fine. I heard people say what
>>>> I'm about to say for the longest time and did not put any stock in it,
>>>> until it happened to me; for tech people and perhaps the average user
>>>> today, being able to use at least two screen readers works best. JAWS
>>>> is still my preferred reader, but from time to time I am in situations
>>>> where JAWS does not work as well as NVDA. I have also done some
>>>> accessibility testing, and found this to be especially true. Some
>>>> pages JAWS completely misses content, and NVDA is more accurate.
>
>>>> Wayne
>
>>>>> On 2/8/17, TaraPrakash via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> No matter what Will have to depend onjaws Windows eyes etc.  and NFB
>> will
>>>>> not put pressure on Microsoft so that accessibility with an operating
>>>> system
>>>>> is sufficient and no third-party screen reader is needed
>
>
>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Gregory D. Rosenberg via gui-talk
>>>>>> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Good morning everyone,
>
>>>>>> MS has added several improvement for their Narrator. Braille support
>> and
>>>>>> mono audio are amongst the enhancements. This is a BETA release for
>> those
>>>>>> that choose to receive Windows Updates for Windows 10 on the Windows
>>>>>> Insider Fast Track.
>
>
>>
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/new-windows-10-accessibility-features-wi
>
>
>>
ll-improve-many-lives/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=24278129322317615159007803282442
>
>
>>>>>> Braille support in Narrator (beta). Now, when you have a USB- or
>>>>>> serial-based braille display attached to your PC you can use it with
>>>>>> Narrator.
>
>>>>>> Mono audio option. Visually impaired users who use a screen reader
>> with
>>>>>> headphones or earbuds can now enable a mono audio option in Ease of
>>>> Access
>>>>>> settings ???so the other ear is free to hear conversations and sounds
>>>> around
>>>>>> them.???
>
>>>>>> Feedback Hub improvements. Microsoft is finally tackling the problem
>> of
>>>>>> too much duplicate pieces of feedback by letting user combined them
in
>>>>>> collections. Which can, collectively, be up-voted just like an
>> individual
>>>>>> piece of feedback.
>
>>>>>> Night light improvements. The new Night light feature gets another
>>>>>> improvement in this build, with the night light color temperature
>> range
>>>>>> extended to a very red (1200 K) color.
>
>>>>>> See:
>
>
>>
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-10
>>>> -insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97
>
>
>>
<https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-1
>
>>> 0-insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97>
>>>>>> for details of Windows 10 build 15025.
>
>
>
>>>>>> "The rapidly changing threat landscape today makes it almost
>> impractical
>>>>>> to secure our computers and networks against all vulnerabilities.
>>>> Security
>>>>>> organizations collectively are seeing nearly four new threats every
>>>>>> second. Therefore, we must shift our security goals to making our
>>>>>> computers and networks survive the invevitable attacks."
>>>>>>                  Gregory D. Rosenberg
>
>>>>>> P.S. Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the National
>>>> Federation
>>>>>> of the Blind. Your tax deductible donation will appear as
"Imagination
>>>>>> Fund" on your phone bill.
>
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and
>>>> friends
>>>>>> who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day
>> we
>>>>>> work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
>
>>>>>> 73' & 75'
>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Gregory D. Rosenberg AB9MZ
>>>>>> gregg at ricis.com
>
>>>>>> RICIS, Inc.
>>>>>> 7849 Bristol Park Drive
>>>>>> Tinley Park, IL 60477-4594
>>>>>> http://www.ricis.com
>
>>>>>> +1 708-267-6664 Cell
>>>>>> +1 866-RICIS-77 (+1 866-7424-777) U.S. and Canada
>>>>>> +1 708-444-2690 Office - local and international
>>>>>> +1 708-444-1115 Fax (Please call before sending a fax).
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this communication is
>>>>>> confidential, private, proprietary, or otherwise privileged and is
>>>>>> intended only for the use of the addressee only.
>>>>>> Unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution or copying is strictly
>>>>>> prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the
>>>> sender
>>>>>> immediately at +1 (708) 444-2690 locally or +1 (866) RICIS-77 [+1
>> (866)
>>>>>> 742-4777] in the US.
>>>>>> You may also reach us at support at ricis.com.
>>>>>> ===== Scanned by FuseMail =====
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>>>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> gui-talk:
>
>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/taraprakash%40gmail.co
>>>> m
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> gui-talk:
>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/wcmerritt%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>> --
>>>> Connect with me on GoodReads:
>>>> www.goodreads.com/waynesbooks
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> gui-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/dgl%40dlee.org
>
>>>> --
>>>> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org
http://www.dlee.org
>>>> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>>>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>>>> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was
>>>> done." --Helen Keller
>

_______________________________________________
gui-talk mailing list
gui-talk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
gui-talk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/geodom%40optonline.net

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/13928 - Release Date: 02/10/17 