[gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will improve many lives - TechRepublic

Santiago Velasquez zanty410 at gmail.com
Sat Feb 11 08:38:44 UTC 2017 

Let me first start by saying that I think that it is a step in the right direction if Microsoft continues down this path.

When I hear that a screen reader that is built into the operating system decreases competition and reduces the options available to consumers, I just find that hard to believe. We should not have to choose between a range of screen readers that do some things well, but an other does some other things better. As an Engineer, when I hear that the development of a screen reader should be left to third parties, instead of the developers of the operating system in which it is suppose to run, that argument doesn’t make sense. When you build a house, the cables, pipes, Ventilation ducts, and gas lines are designed, an constructed as the house is built for seamless integration and operation. Yes! You can add more stuff to your house after it has been completed, but by that stage you don’t have the same level of freedom. And if that weren’t enough, Microsoft has a larger R&D department than Freedom Scientific can ever hope to have. our Choices should not be between the screen reader with the least amount of compromises, and the cheapest, but rather the platform that best suits our needs. Last, stability, reliability and freedom. I can setup a Mac, Ubuntu, Android and IOS device without any sighted assistance, that is not the case for windows yet. Not to mention that some sighted assistance might be needed to install your screenreader, or magnifier of choice. Just remember that if Microsoft decides to continue down this route, not only is windows going to become more accessible, but apps are going to be developed with accessibility from the get go. This is whether the developer wants that, or not. After all they will have to follow Microsoft’s rules, and guidelines.

Kind regards
Santi



> On 11 Feb 2017, at 2:57 PM, Doug Lee via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> The key word there is "if," in "if they did it well." By the same "if," Communism should work well as a means of managing resources. Trouble is, things are generally far from ideal in the realm of human behavior. If they did
> not do it well, we would have nothing sufficient for our needs. As I said before, that was the realization that made a number of us fight years ago against Narrator attempting to replace JAWS and others. In short, like the
> founders of the US and of its Constitution, we did not wish to steak our existences so heavily on people behaving ideally that we might lose the very things we valued most.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 09:34:30PM -0500, Pamela Dominguez via gui-talk wrote:
> I used to argue that screenreaders and speech should be built into products
> off the shelf, and if they had to mass produce it, the cost should come down.
> But I can't tell you how many blind people argued with me, telling me that I
> was wrong, because doing that would take away choice.  If they did it well
> enough, there should not be a need for choice.  Pam.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via gui-talk
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:02 AM
> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Steve Jacobson
> Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will improve
> many lives - TechRepublic
> 
> Having been involved in the NFB in Computer Science and a couple of other of
> NFB's technical committees for many years, I have never heard anyone say
> that policies must not impact anybody's bottom line.  Frankly, I think
> people tell you things like that so they don't have to acknowledge that we
> may not be looking at answers that are as simple as they seem.  For example,
> the level of commitment to accessibility by Microsoft seems pretty high just
> now.  Over the years, though, this has gone up and down.  If they are going
> to include a screen reader in Windows that is good enough to replace the
> others that are available, we have to have a continuing and solid commitment
> to keeping that screen reader up to date or it will cost us jobs.  In the
> past on my job, I used Lotus Notes for mail and other tasks which has been a
> big compettitor to Microsoft Outlook.  I wondered to what degree Microsoft
> would be committed to correcting problems with their screen reader and  with
> Lotus Notes, especially when accessibility didn't seem to have as important
> a place in their priorities.  They might have done all right, but I felt it
> was more certain that GW Micro or Freedom Scientific would have no
> particular preference as to which software was being used with their
> products.  Their commitment to accessibility remained high because
> accessibility is where they earned their money.
> 
> In the case of Apple, there really was nothing available until VoiceOver
> came along.  Years ago there was a screen reader called OutSpoken for the
> MAC which was pretty good, but that disappeared years ago.  The market
> dynamics of Windows and the Apple operating systems have been very
> different, though, although that might be changing.
> 
> What we all wish for is to have a screen reader that works perfectly
> included with all operating systems.  In reality, there are many factors
> that have to be taken into consideration to get the best accessibility at
> the most reasonable cost.  We are in a period of change right now and it
> could be a good thing for us, but we are going to have to watch closely as
> we move forward.  This is true of all platforms and not just Windows.  There
> is a good deal of effort now to make operating systems work, but less
> thought to making them work as efficiently for us as they work visually.  In
> our recreation, this isn't real important, but it is very important in
> employment situations.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of TaraPrakash
> via gui-talk
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 10:17 AM
> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will
> improve many lives - TechRepublic
> 
> Yes but influential organizations will have to push towards that. I wish nfb
> pushed towards that scenario. But that hurts Freedom Sscientific
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mike Arrigo via gui-talk
> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hopefully the day will come when third party screen readers are no longer
> needed, and narrator will be as full featured as voiceover is on the mac,
> really that's the way it should have always been, we should never have had
> to pay extra money to access a computer, but for many years this was
> accepted as just the way it was. Fortunately that is changing now.
>> Original message:
>>> As you may already know, some big improvements came out for Narrator last
>>> fall that includes the equivelent of a sort of Virtual Cursor on web
> pages.
>>> Narrator calls it their scan mode.  In addition, according to a Microsoft
>>> BLOG post, there are further substantial changes and improvements coming
>>> this spring.  These changes are only available in Windows 10 after the
>>> Anniversary upgrade.
>> 
>>> While I remain somewhat uneasy about a powerful narrator, not because I
> am
>>> concerned about anybody's bottom line but because I don't know if we
> would
>>> be adequately served by one scrreen reader, the move seems to be in that
>>> direction.  It is not my impression that the NFB is opposing that at this
>>> point.
>> 
>>> I find the newest versions of Narrator to be much more full-featured, and
>>> their newest synthesizers are much more responsive.  I still feel it is
>>> somewhat slower to respond than JAWS or Window-Eyes, though, but we'll
> see
>>> what happens.
>> 
>>> Best regards,
>> 
>>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>>> At 06:12 PM 2/8/2017, you wrote:
>>>> We should be able to perform at least the basic functions using
> narrator.
>> 
>>>> But NFB will not put pressure  on Microsoft to make narrator more
>>>> disabled friendly
>>>> It will harm Freedom Sscientific  s bottomline. I feel bad  saying
>>>> anything more than nthat
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Jen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> I personally can't stand Narrator. JAWS is still my favorite option.
>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug
>>> Lee
>>>>> via gui-talk
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 1:27 PM
>>>>> To: wcmerritt at gmail.com; Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,
> GUI
>>>>> Talk Mailing List <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Doug Lee <dgl at dlee.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: New Windows 10 accessibility features will
>>>>> improve many lives - TechRepublic
>> 
>>>>> For what it's worth, here's my up-to-date view on the idea of Narrator
>>>>> becoming king of Windows screen readers:
>> 
>>>>> Quick background:
>> 
>>>>> Before Apple, we fought this because it would give Microsoft a monopoly
>>> on
>>>>> our very ability to access most computers, when we had no clear
> evidence
>>> or
>>>>> commitment that they would continuously prioritize their efforts to
> keep
>>>>> that accessibility for us.
>> 
>>>>> Apple changed the rules a bit by doing what we opposed Microsoft doing.
>>>>> Apple had no competition though, so there was no loss when they
> produced
>>>>> VoiceOver; only gain.
>> 
>>>>> Microsoft is starting to show some focus on accessibility
>>>> support, though it
>>>>> will take a while before I consider that a reasonable guarantee
>>>> for the long
>>>>> run.
>> 
>>>>> My conclusions:
>> 
>>>>> We can't be mad by now at Microsoft for trying to do this, whether we
>>>>> support it or not.
>> 
>>>>> JAWS and NVDA at least will continue to be important for years.
>> 
>>>>> If Microsoft knocks them out and we become dependent on Narrator or
>>> another
>>>>> Microsoft offering, time will tell if this was a wise transition.
> Again,
>>>>> Apple had no competition, but Microsoft always has.
>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 08, 2017 at 12:00:30PM -0600, Wayne Merritt via gui-talk
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, Narrator is not as feature-rich as JAWS or Window-Eyes. However,
>>>>> I have had JAWS crash or not read certain web elements on web pages,
>>>>> where Narrator or NVDA read them just fine. I heard people say what
>>>>> I'm about to say for the longest time and did not put any stock in it,
>>>>> until it happened to me; for tech people and perhaps the average user
>>>>> today, being able to use at least two screen readers works best. JAWS
>>>>> is still my preferred reader, but from time to time I am in situations
>>>>> where JAWS does not work as well as NVDA. I have also done some
>>>>> accessibility testing, and found this to be especially true. Some
>>>>> pages JAWS completely misses content, and NVDA is more accurate.
>> 
>>>>> Wayne
>> 
>>>>>> On 2/8/17, TaraPrakash via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> No matter what Will have to depend onjaws Windows eyes etc.  and NFB
>>> will
>>>>>> not put pressure on Microsoft so that accessibility with an operating
>>>>> system
>>>>>> is sufficient and no third-party screen reader is needed
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Gregory D. Rosenberg via gui-talk
>>>>>>> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> Good morning everyone,
>> 
>>>>>>> MS has added several improvement for their Narrator. Braille support
>>> and
>>>>>>> mono audio are amongst the enhancements. This is a BETA release for
>>> those
>>>>>>> that choose to receive Windows Updates for Windows 10 on the Windows
>>>>>>> Insider Fast Track.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/new-windows-10-accessibility-features-wi
>> 
>> 
>>> 
> ll-improve-many-lives/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=24278129322317615159007803282442
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Braille support in Narrator (beta). Now, when you have a USB- or
>>>>>>> serial-based braille display attached to your PC you can use it with
>>>>>>> Narrator.
>> 
>>>>>>> Mono audio option. Visually impaired users who use a screen reader
>>> with
>>>>>>> headphones or earbuds can now enable a mono audio option in Ease of
>>>>> Access
>>>>>>> settings ???so the other ear is free to hear conversations and sounds
>>>>> around
>>>>>>> them.???
>> 
>>>>>>> Feedback Hub improvements. Microsoft is finally tackling the problem
>>> of
>>>>>>> too much duplicate pieces of feedback by letting user combined them
> in
>>>>>>> collections. Which can, collectively, be up-voted just like an
>>> individual
>>>>>>> piece of feedback.
>> 
>>>>>>> Night light improvements. The new Night light feature gets another
>>>>>>> improvement in this build, with the night light color temperature
>>> range
>>>>>>> extended to a very red (1200 K) color.
>> 
>>>>>>> See:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-10
>>>>> -insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97
>> 
>> 
>>> 
> <https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/02/01/announcing-windows-1
>> 
>>>> 0-insider-preview-build-15025-pc/#aoee4jFiqHPrCeoP.97>
>>>>>>> for details of Windows 10 build 15025.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> "The rapidly changing threat landscape today makes it almost
>>> impractical
>>>>>>> to secure our computers and networks against all vulnerabilities.
>>>>> Security
>>>>>>> organizations collectively are seeing nearly four new threats every
>>>>>>> second. Therefore, we must shift our security goals to making our
>>>>>>> computers and networks survive the invevitable attacks."
>>>>>>>                Gregory D. Rosenberg
>> 
>>>>>>> P.S. Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the National
>>>>> Federation
>>>>>>> of the Blind. Your tax deductible donation will appear as
> "Imagination
>>>>>>> Fund" on your phone bill.
>> 
>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and
>>>>> friends
>>>>>>> who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day
>>> we
>>>>>>> work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
>> 
>>>>>>> 73' & 75'
>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Gregory D. Rosenberg AB9MZ
>>>>>>> gregg at ricis.com
>> 
>>>>>>> RICIS, Inc.
>>>>>>> 7849 Bristol Park Drive
>>>>>>> Tinley Park, IL 60477-4594
>>>>>>> http://www.ricis.com
>> 
>>>>>>> +1 708-267-6664 Cell
>>>>>>> +1 866-RICIS-77 (+1 866-7424-777) U.S. and Canada
>>>>>>> +1 708-444-2690 Office - local and international
>>>>>>> +1 708-444-1115 Fax (Please call before sending a fax).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this communication is
>>>>>>> confidential, private, proprietary, or otherwise privileged and is
>>>>>>> intended only for the use of the addressee only.
>>>>>>> Unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution or copying is strictly
>>>>>>> prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>>>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the
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>>>>>>> immediately at +1 (708) 444-2690 locally or +1 (866) RICIS-77 [+1
>>> (866)
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>>>>>>> You may also reach us at support at ricis.com.
>>>>>>> ===== Scanned by FuseMail =====
>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/taraprakash%40gmail.co
>>>>> m
>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/wcmerritt%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Connect with me on GoodReads:
>>>>> www.goodreads.com/waynesbooks
>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gui-talk mailing list
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>>>>> gui-talk:
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>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org
> http://www.dlee.org
>>>>> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>>>>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>>>>> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was
>>>>> done." --Helen Keller
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
> -- 
> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org <mailto:dgl at dlee.org>                http://www.dlee.org <http://www.dlee.org/>
> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com>   http://www.ssbbartgroup.com <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/>
> Freedom is not the ability to have what we want.  Freedom is merely the
> ability to seek it.  To be free defines what we can do, not what we can get.
> (03/28/05)
> 
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