[humanser] A question for the group

Tue Feb 24 22:17:40 UTC 2009

Wow, and I thought I was rocking the metaphorical boat with my guide dog 
questions.

I want a fair fight, so you guys and gals keep it clean with no punches 
below the belt!

Ding, ding!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

> "no reason for a trial"?  You are all over the map.  Your logic is
> copiously flawed.  "justice is blind"?  I hardly think that blind jurors
> were the impetus  for this quotation.  The implication is that one's race,
> ethnicity, gender or social status is irrelevant  in the eyes of the law.
> This is not such a big issue for me.  I simply brought it up out of
> curiosity and to begin a discussion.  Finally, you demonstrate incredible
> presumptuous ignorance when you attempt to play amateur psychotherapist 
> with
> me.  You bring a great deal of anger to an intellectual discussion.  I
> suggest that you recues yourself.  Your blindness is clearly more than a
> physical affliction.
> Jeffrey Schwartz, Ph.D.
> VA Ct Healthcare System
> Department of Psychiatry
> Yale School of Medicine
> 203.932.5711
> -----Original Message-----
> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Bullis
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:51 AM
> To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>
> The important thing is that visual evidence is secondary to the court
> transcript.  If visual evidence was so persuasive, there would be no need
> for a trial.  Diagrams and pictures are supplementary at best and often
> misleading at worst.  To make this discussion about the NFB misses a 
> point.
> The reason most States have laws saying that blind jurors can serve is 
> that
> most Legislators are lawyers and they know that justice should be blind.
> They also know that evaluating evidence is mental, not visual.  It 
> requires
> judgment and discernment and lots of things many jurors don't have, but,
> it's the best system we have come up with.  If you don't want to serve, I
> wouldn't use your blindness.  You have an obligation as an adult in 
> America
> to serve.  It's a responsibility of citizenship that goes to the founding 
> of
> our country.  You should perhaps be asking yourself why this is such a big
> issue for you.  Is it perhaps because you look to quickly for blindness to
> be a problem in anything you do?
> Although court clerks will probably allow you to use your blindness as a
> disqualifying reason, they will be in error for doing so.  You are a part 
> of
> the broader population.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  You neither bring
> great advantage nor disadvantage to the jury box.
> Mike Bullis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jan Bailey
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM
> To: Human Services Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>
> Well then, interesting that so many blind people have already successfully
> done it? If you feel that uncomfortable about it, I hope you ask to be
> excused. Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>
>
>>I guess that it is simply up  to the conscience of the blind individual. 
>>I
>> there is one chance in a thousand that I would miss something important, 
>> I
>> simply would not want to let another person's liberty or life ride on my
>> need to prove that a blind person can do anything that a sighted one can.
>> I'm back to the cab driver and neurosurgeon.  NFB demagoguery   is simply
>> wrong.  There are some things that we simply can not do.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jan Bailey
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:49 PM
>> To: Human Services Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>
>> I think all of the visual evidence could be described. I've read a lot of
>> court cases, and that visual evidence just backs up the witnesses oral
>> testimony. Then when the jury gets the case there is a lot of chance for
>> discussion and going over the evidence, so I wouldn't feel uncomfortable
>> about having visual evidence, because I would ask any questions I would
>> have, and go over the testimony of the witness. A witness always has to
>> testify and explain the evidence that is offered by either attorney.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>
>>
>>> J.D.
>>> As I think about it, there can be much more than pictures.  Depending on
>>> the
>>> case there can  be an array of visual evidence.  On TV attorneys seem to
>>> be
>>> very proud of their charts, time lines and other visual charts and
>>> displays.
>>> I don't feel in good conscience that I could be as good a juror as I
>>> would
>>> be sighted.  A great deal depends upon the case, of course.  I would
>>> hate,
>>> however, to make a sociological point with someone's life or freedom
>>> resting
>>> in the balance.  There are issues more important than how a small
>>> segment,
>>> in a rare circumstance views the blind.  Would you want a blind cab
>>> driver
>>> or neurosurgeon?  Would you insist on your guide dog's right to go into
>>> the
>>> operating room.  Most of my dentists and periodontists  as well as
>>> internists have let my dog come with me.  A number of them, dog lovers,
>>> appreciated it.  I did, however,  have one dentist who didn't want the
>>> dog
>>> in the room.  He wore a gown, mask, goggles and head gear.  I think that
>>> he
>>> was afraid of getting a faceful of HIV or Hep C.  I don't blame him. 
>>> New
>>> Haven has the highest per capita rate of AIDs in the country and he had
>>> an
>>> inner city practice.  It's a complicated issue and good judgment must
>>> dictate the parameters, not dogmatic adherence to our rights.  The 
>>> latter
>>> can make us look celf centered and foolish.
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:08 PM
>>> To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>>
>>> You may be waiting a very long time.  As a social worker, or other 
>>> mental
>>> health professional prosecutors don't want us on the jury.  They think
>>> that
>>> we are too lenient and excuse antisocial behavior on the grounds that 
>>> the
>>> perpetrator is only a sad victim of his deprived childhood.
>>> Jeff Schwartz, PhD.
>>> Clinical Psychologist
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of JD Townsend
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:07 PM
>>> To: Human Services Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> I've been waiting a long time for a call to jury duty with no letter. 
>>> In
>>> Florida the jury rolls are determined by driver licenses, so it makes me
>>> wonder if my non-driver license may not find it's way into the selection
>>> box.  Like Melissa I've known blind friends who have serve.
>>>
>>> Pictures play only a small part in the vast majority of cases.  And,
>>> blind
>>> jurors don't fall into the trap of the defendant who looks guilty.
>>> Listening is the biggest skill for jurors and I can say with some pride
>>> that
>>>
>>> many blind folks can give the light dependent a run for their money on
>>> listening skills.
>>>
>>>
>>> JD Townsend, LCSW
>>> Daytona Beach, Florida, Earth, Sol System
>>> Helping the light dependent to see.
>>>
>>>
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