[humanser] A question for the group

Wed Feb 25 01:47:55 UTC 2009

Your apology is accepted.

-----Original Message-----
From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Bullis
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:32 AM
To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

Thanks Melissa.  Point well taken.  It really is off topic.  My apology.
Mike Bullis 

-----Original Message-----
From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Melissa Ann Riccobono
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:32 AM
To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

Listers,
While this discussion is interesting, and I don't mind if discussions
sometimes stray a bit off the topic of blind human service workers, I would
like to ask respectfully that this discussion be discontinued.  There are
very strong oppinions here, and while everyone has remained mostly
respectful to this point, I am afraid respect for one another may not
continue if this discussion does.  So, please, let's get back to the
original purpose of this list.
Thank you,
Melissa Riccobono, President, Human Services Division and list moderator

-----Original Message-----
From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:58 AM
To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

"no reason for a trial"?  You are all over the map.  Your logic is copiously
flawed.  "justice is blind"?  I hardly think that blind jurors were the
impetus  for this quotation.  The implication is that one's race, ethnicity,
gender or social status is irrelevant  in the eyes of the law.
This is not such a big issue for me.  I simply brought it up out of
curiosity and to begin a discussion.  Finally, you demonstrate incredible
presumptuous ignorance when you attempt to play amateur psychotherapist with
me.  You bring a great deal of anger to an intellectual discussion.  I
suggest that you recues yourself.  Your blindness is clearly more than a
physical affliction.
Jeffrey Schwartz, Ph.D.
VA Ct Healthcare System
Department of Psychiatry
Yale School of Medicine
203.932.5711
-----Original Message-----
From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Bullis
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:51 AM
To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

The important thing is that visual evidence is secondary to the court
transcript.  If visual evidence was so persuasive, there would be no need
for a trial.  Diagrams and pictures are supplementary at best and often
misleading at worst.  To make this discussion about the NFB misses a point.
The reason most States have laws saying that blind jurors can serve is that
most Legislators are lawyers and they know that justice should be blind.
They also know that evaluating evidence is mental, not visual.  It requires
judgment and discernment and lots of things many jurors don't have, but,
it's the best system we have come up with.  If you don't want to serve, I
wouldn't use your blindness.  You have an obligation as an adult in America
to serve.  It's a responsibility of citizenship that goes to the founding of
our country.  You should perhaps be asking yourself why this is such a big
issue for you.  Is it perhaps because you look to quickly for blindness to
be a problem in anything you do?  
Although court clerks will probably allow you to use your blindness as a
disqualifying reason, they will be in error for doing so.  You are a part of
the broader population.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  You neither bring
great advantage nor disadvantage to the jury box.  
Mike Bullis
-----Original Message-----
From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jan Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM
To: Human Services Mailing List
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

Well then, interesting that so many blind people have already successfully
done it? If you feel that uncomfortable about it, I hope you ask to be
excused. Jan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group

>I guess that it is simply up  to the conscience of the blind 
>individual.  I  there is one chance in a thousand that I would miss 
>something important, I  simply would not want to let another person's 
>liberty or life ride on my  need to prove that a blind person can do
anything that a sighted one can.
> I'm back to the cab driver and neurosurgeon.  NFB demagoguery   is simply
> wrong.  There are some things that we simply can not do.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On Behalf Of Jan Bailey
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:49 PM
> To: Human Services Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>
> I think all of the visual evidence could be described. I've read a lot 
> of court cases, and that visual evidence just backs up the witnesses 
> oral testimony. Then when the jury gets the case there is a lot of 
> chance for discussion and going over the evidence, so I wouldn't feel 
> uncomfortable about having visual evidence, because I would ask any 
> questions I would have, and go over the testimony of the witness. A 
> witness always has to testify and explain the evidence that is offered by
either attorney.
>
> Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>
>
>> J.D.
>> As I think about it, there can be much more than pictures.  Depending 
>> on the case there can  be an array of visual evidence.  On TV 
>> attorneys seem to be very proud of their charts, time lines and other 
>> visual charts and displays.
>> I don't feel in good conscience that I could be as good a juror as I 
>> would be sighted.  A great deal depends upon the case, of course.  I 
>> would hate, however, to make a sociological point with someone's life 
>> or freedom resting in the balance.  There are issues more important 
>> than how a small segment, in a rare circumstance views the blind.  
>> Would you want a blind cab driver or neurosurgeon?  Would you insist 
>> on your guide dog's right to go into the operating room.  Most of my 
>> dentists and periodontists  as well as internists have let my dog 
>> come with me.  A number of them, dog lovers, appreciated it.  I did, 
>> however,  have one dentist who didn't want the dog in the room.  He 
>> wore a gown, mask, goggles and head gear.  I think that he was afraid 
>> of getting a faceful of HIV or Hep C.  I don't blame him.  New Haven 
>> has the highest per capita rate of AIDs in the country and he had an 
>> inner city practice.  It's a complicated issue and good judgment must 
>> dictate the parameters, not dogmatic adherence to our rights.  The 
>> latter can make us look celf centered and foolish.
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:08 PM
>> To: 'Human Services Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>
>> You may be waiting a very long time.  As a social worker, or other 
>> mental health professional prosecutors don't want us on the jury.  
>> They think that we are too lenient and excuse antisocial behavior on 
>> the grounds that the perpetrator is only a sad victim of his deprived 
>> childhood.
>> Jeff Schwartz, PhD.
>> Clinical Psychologist
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of JD Townsend
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:07 PM
>> To: Human Services Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] A question for the group
>>
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> I've been waiting a long time for a call to jury duty with no letter.  
>> In Florida the jury rolls are determined by driver licenses, so it 
>> makes me wonder if my non-driver license may not find it's way into 
>> the selection box.  Like Melissa I've known blind friends who have serve.
>>
>> Pictures play only a small part in the vast majority of cases.  And, 
>> blind jurors don't fall into the trap of the defendant who looks 
>> guilty.
>> Listening is the biggest skill for jurors and I can say with some 
>> pride that
>>
>> many blind folks can give the light dependent a run for their money 
>> on listening skills.
>>
>>
>> JD Townsend, LCSW
>> Daytona Beach, Florida, Earth, Sol System Helping the light dependent 
>> to see.
>>
>>
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