[humanser] Recording for note taking

Sun May 25 20:06:41 UTC 2014

Sometimes I think it is so tempting to get caught up in the reasonable accommodations issues that more practical considerations can be overlooked.  First, as much as possible, I think we need to have a way 
of taking notes.  Certainly a braille device is nice and preferable for many of us, but I take a lot of notes on a laptop and as has been said, there are ways to do it with an iPad or iphone as well.  I have heard of 
people whispering into a stenomask as another possible approach.  In general, recordings simply have a different legal status than do notes.  The existence of a recording can have implications for the speaker 
as well in a way that notes do not.  Most of the time, the ability to record won't be an issue, but taking notes is virtually never an issue, and taking notes allows the adding of additional information, reactions, or 
thoughts, that are not part of what is being said.   

Since we do not and probably should not know the exact concerns here, we can only deal in generalities, and it is possible they do not apply here.  One has to realize that there are generally two types of 
meetings.  One type is a meeting where information is being presented and distributed where most of the participants are really there to receive information.  The other kind of meeting is where all present are 
involved and the purpose is to arrive at a decision or a conclusion.  Personnel meetings are often of the second type in my experience.  

In this second type of meeting, often areas are explored for the purpose of working toward a decision or conclusion, but the areas explored are not necessarily significant in and of themselves.  There can be 
cases where any participant may float an idea that they know is not practical but to get a sense of what the other participants think, to find the boundaries of agreement as it were.  The presence of a recorder 
in such a meeting can impede such exchanges which can be useful.  Notes, by their very nature, reflect the reactions of the note-taker and don't constitute proof that something was stated as reflected in those 
notes.

I would think it would make a lot of sense to analyze what the purpose of a meeting is and then decide upon the approach to take based upon the purpose.  If there is likely going to be an outcome that must 
be agreed upon, having the agreement so you can feel certain you understand it is going to be a necessity, but it may not be necessary to have every word available that got you to that agreement.  Unless 
one takes shorthand, a sighted person who feels they want to take notes isn't going to have every word.  In addition, a recording could inhibit discussion that might actually be to the advantage of an employee.  

It may be worth considering that there might be two separate issues here.  First, How does one be sure to accurately get information that is presented.  That is generally what is captured in note taking, and 
getting such information in writing before a meeting would be another approach to getting that information.  The second issue is accountability.  If one does not trust the people with whom they are meeting, it 
might work to ask that there be minutes of the meeting to which both of you must agree as a compromise to recording.  If there is truly a concern that something will be said in a meeting but later denied, the 
possibility of including a third uninvolved person might be explored.  Obviously, one should have the chance to read any document before one signs it, but sometimes one is better off having a reader read the 
document that is being signed than depending on an accessible version that may not have the final updates.  These things are tricky.

I don't know if a recording is always seen under the law as a reasonable accommodation as a substitute for taking notes.  Whether it is or not, I think it has to be realized that the existence of a recording is 
more complicated than simply whether it is or is not a reasonable accommodation.  It isn't selling out to look for a solution that meets ones needs while allowing others to be more comfortable.  Sometimes, I think 
we too quickly reduce complicated issues to simple ones of reasonable accommodations that could even limit our own options.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson  

On Sun, 25 May 2014 04:18:39 -0700, Carly Mihalakis via humanser wrote:

>Good morning, Karen and everyone,

>         As a brain damaged person, that is 
>precisely the manner in which I come to know 
>material covered in class, by Streaming the 
>lectures then, using the lecture, I put the 
>material into my own words and type them upon my home comput.
>for today, Car

>in which I reveiw material, cisely thae At 11:38 AM 5/24/2014, you wrote:
>>I did not know you had hand sensitivity issues 
>>and could not read back in braille. However 
>>there is an app called M brain which would allow 
>>you to take notes using the braille keyboard 
>>used on the onboard keyboard of the iPhone and 
>>then read back in audio. Check out check out M 
>>Brea as an app for the iPhone. Sent from my 
>>iPhone > On May 24, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Karen 
>>Rose via humanser <humanser at nfbnet.org> 
>>wrote: > > Hi  why not take notes with a 
>>bbraille note taker? Or why not simply record on 
>>your phone from inside your purse and no one 
>>would ever know? Everyone else seems to be using 
>>their phones for this purpose. Smile. Karen > > 
>>Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2014, at 
>>9:37 AM, "Dr. Chappell via humanser" 
>><humanser at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >> Doug, >> You 
>>spoke directly to my reasons for emphasing the 
>>request: >> 1. Obtain means to control my record 
>>of the meeting independent of any other >> 
>>control; or arrange for the communication to be 
>>in writing in the first >> place. >> >> 2. 
>>Prevent any communication that could later be 
>>misrepresented with no >> means of defense. >> 
>>Thank you for the encouragement and notable 
>>awareness. I will proceed with >> caution. >> 
>>-----Original Message----- >> From: humanser 
>>[mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
>>Of Doug Lee >> via humanser >> Sent: Saturday, 
>>May 24, 2014 8:39 AM >> To: Dr. Chappell via 
>>humanser >> Subject: Re: [humanser] Recording 
>>for note taking >> >> This is not a legal 
>>opinion, and I do not possess sufficient legal 
>>knowledge >> to render one. This is a personal 
>>opinion... >> >> This sounds very strange to me 
>>from the beginning, as if they have something >> 
>>to say of which they want limited if any record. 
>>I would, in your position, >> want control of 
>>who is taking the notes if I didn't do it 
>>myself, and I >> would want to know if it is 
>>legal for me to insist that I choose my >> 
>>assistant and without providing any advance 
>>notice of who I will bring to >> the meeting. I 
>>would also want to know if it is legal for me to 
>>insist on >> permission to record the meeting, 
>>since it sounds like the substance of the >> 
>>meeting concerns you and would not contain 
>>sensitive information about >> anyone else. 
>>Finally, I wonder if perhaps the organizers of 
>>the meeting >> would be willing to provide you 
>>with the same information in writing rather >> 
>>than by talking to you in a meeting whose record 
>>you are being forbidden to >> control. If it is 
>>any official communication to you, such as a 
>>performance >> problem, a written account should 
>>not be a problem I would think. >> >> The 
>>specific goals of my response to this situation 
>>would be as follows, and >> I would want both 
>>met properly: >> >> 1. Obtain means to control 
>>my record of the meeting inde 
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