[humanser] Do you know about these?

Thu Dec 15 16:37:35 UTC 2016

Ashley,

The interview was the kind where you walk in, shake the person's hand, 
start the Q&A and realize this is NOT IT! I won't bore you with the 
details, but one thing the person did that drove me nuts was to ask how 
I get to work and telling me that walking to her office was "pretty 
far," with an "I don't know about that one" tone in her voice.

I wish there was something we could do to make the JAWS cursor 
understandable to sighted people. One of my co-workers does get it, but 
it took her a long time.

Sighted people need to understand that our screen is not a rectangle but 
is linear. Everything is read in an up-down order, and how JAWS decides 
to read things is not terribly apparent to me.

Cheryl Wade

On 12/15/2016 1:09 AM, Ashley Bramlett via HumanSer wrote:
> Hello Cheryl,
>
> I'm considering work in the human services field, tutoring or being an 
> outreach specialist.
> I'd probably do something like Lisa Irving is doing as a 
> paraprofessional if I ever get hired since I do not have a masters 
> degree although I have not ruled that out and going back to school.
>
> Anyways, I empathize with you. I  know most EMR systems are not 
> accessible or barely accessible.
> You said
> "You almost have to familiarize the sighted co-worker with
> how your system works before you can get any meaningful help, and that
> takes a long time."
> I totally agree!
> In all internships, I've had difficulty following instructions from 
> sighted people because they use visual terms and instructions such as 
> saying "that yellow arrow" or that "drop down menu on the right" or 
> worse to click on some link which is an image, etc, etc.
>
> Oh, and they do not always know where your jaws cursor is because it 
> is invisible.
>
> Here is a sad personal story.
> While I'm still volunteering teaching jaws at the talking book library 
> and a few other things, but I did so badly want to volunteer in a 
> human services capacity on the front lines.
> I've tried hard to volunteer for experience. I thought a perfect fit 
> for me would be  a nonprofit in Vienna, Va not far from me serving 
> women primarily in their career and psychological needs.
> I applied to volunteer and was accepted. I told them I'd need jaws and 
> surprisingly they agreed. So, it was installed on the office pc by the 
> phone.
> My position was to be an information and referral specialist. I was 
> glad to have it because I could talk to a variety of people and help 
> them get what they needed.
> This means that I primarily answered the front office phone, 
> transferred calls to people or departments, answered basic questions, 
> supplied information about the center, looked up information to refer 
> callers to agencies,
> and was supposed to document the calls. I went through the training 
> fine. They accommodated me by giving me the powerpoint slides. It was 
> mostly lecture based so posed little problems in getting the material 
> I needed.
>
> Here was the problem! I got a hang of the extensions with practice and 
> memorized common ones and I was able to remember basic info which was 
> good so I did not have to look it up. The problems arose with, guess 
> what? Documentation!
> The first month was fine. They had me write down the info and it was 
> put in some book. But, then, someone created an excell form to 
> document calls.
> In other words, they were moving to an electronic way of tracking.
> As I tried to do it the new way, my heart sank.
> I was not able to use the form successfully. Jaws read some of the 
> info, but not enough. I remember tabbing through fields and not 
> hearing anything or arrowing around and getting in wrong boxes.
>
> I can see to read large print. I continued to write out info by hand 
> and tried to use the electronic system.
> Well, I guess it became too much work for my supervisor. She probably 
> did not like having to enter data in after me. I also might have been 
> a little slower as I was navigiting screens with jaws to look up info.
>
> I worked hard on that position and felt I was getting the hang of 
> things. Working with the phones and  a pc together was new to me. I 
> sometimes had a couple screens open at a time and alt tabbed between 
> them. Most callers got what they needed and some even complemented me 
> and said I was helpful.
> The main problem was documenting the calls; we were supposed to 
> document when and why they called and if followup was needed.
> I could do the job except for the documenting. It was not my fault. It 
> did not help matters that the sighted person that created the form did 
> not understand why I was having trouble. She said she had some 
> accessibility checker on it and it said it had no problems found. It 
> was obvious to me that accommodating me was a hastle and sighted staff 
> did not understand the issues.
> It was not long before I was taken off the position. I was asked not 
> to come in a few weeks due to problems with the phones. While my 
> supervisor had said I might be assigned elsewhere, I did not think she 
> was serious.
> But one day I called my supervisor and she indicated the phones were 
> fixed. However, she told me I was taken off the position and said they 
> would find me something else to do where  I could use my writing 
> skills; she said she wanted to work with me but in a different way 
> that I could contribute.
> Well, we had  ideas for me to interview clients and feature their 
> stories online, but that fell through because she said she was too 
> busy. I followed up with her, and she said that idea would have to 
> wait as she was tied up in things and she never got back to me.
>
> Cheryl, I know what you mean about feeling miles behind your other 
> coworkers. Its so rough. There is another office position where you 
> can be a service coordinator as a volunteer. I'm discouraged and 
> afraid to try it because of the electronic forms issue. I can imagine 
> that question arising in the interview and I'm not sure what to say. I 
> have the same question as Lisa; how can you answer those questions 
> without shooting yourself in the foot.
>
> Good luck in your job search and how nice you got interviewed. Many 
> people are not selected for those.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Wade via HumanSer
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:05 PM
> To: Human Services Division Mailing List
> Cc: Cheryl Wade
> Subject: Re: [humanser] Do you know about these?
>
> My state agency for the blind actually worked with me for several months
> to devise the system I now use for CDT. All of the visual items had to
> be turned into a menu. My consultant determined the pixol points on the
> screen and then plotted them using JAWS scripts. I also had to write
> down sequences of things that did not speak, such as choices to check on
> some of the menus.
>
>
> For a time, you might need to call on your co-workers to get you out of
> what I call sight gags -- problems that must be remedied with a mouse. I
> had to learn not to use many of the keystrokes I have taken for granted
> for my orientation on the screen. For example, I cannot use the up-arrow
> to go back and correct mistakes, or else I will make the system snarl.
>
>
> Another problem, folks, is this: So you get a job and you get the names
> of the software products the agency uses. You don't get a JAWS
> consultant to come to your work place until about three weeks after you
> start. So, you're already miles and miles behind, and your supervisors
> are reluctant to assign you certain kinds of jobs because they know you
> don't know enough about the system to perform them right. In adition,
> it's hard to have a sighted person explain to a blind consultant what
> the system does, because the JAWS cursor isn't the one the sighted
> person sees. You almost have to familiarize the sighted co-worker with
> how your system works before you can get any meaningful help, and that
> takes a long time.
>
>
> I hate to be such a naysayer, but it's been eight months and I'm still
> not allowed to perform assessments. For the last two weeks I earned a
> total of $150 for counseling sessions. I was a writer for 33 years, and
> I helped people understand and thrive in their communities by writing
> for my local paper full time. What I'm doing is barely, barely treading
> water. My ability to help people is minimal. I don't know what to do
> except maybe file a complaint with the EEOC. I feel largely without help
> and without support.
>
>
> Cheryl Wade
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2016 9:07 PM, Lisa Irving via HumanSer wrote:
>> Is anyone out there using net smart avatar? I am not a licensed 
>> clinician and therefore do not have as many electronic medical 
>> record's requirements however our company, are I international is 
>> switching to this system. Recently I met a Blind social worker here 
>> in California. She is a clinician and she has to use net smart 
>> avatar. Much of it is not accessible.
>>
>> What does one do when one has to document however incidental when an 
>> electronic medical record system is not accessible?
>>
>> My current job is in the realm of paraprofessional, peer support. 
>> Mental health America is trying to set national standards that is 
>> national certification standards for our growing profession. Some 
>> states such as New York to have certification requirements for peer 
>> specialist as you may have guessed this is due to the ability to bill 
>> Medicaid. Additionally this has something to do with the integration 
>> of medical care and mental health care.
>>
>> On a similar note, what do many of you do as clinicians when going 
>> for interviews and the issue of electronic medical records comes up? 
>> How do you handle this conversation without shooting yourself in the 
>> foot? From Lisa Irving
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Ginny Duff via HumanSer 
>>> <humanser at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> JD is right.  It is all worth it even if it is frustrating. Yes it 
>>> takes more time but if you make it work, its such an honour to be 
>>> able to make this contribution to people's lives.
>>>
>>> Ginny
>>>
>>> Dr. V. Duff
>>> Clinical Director
>>> West End Assertive Community Treatment Team
>>> St. Joseph's Health Centre, Toronto
>>> Psychiatrist,
>>> Extended Forensic Out-patient Services
>>> Centre For Addiction and Mental Health, Toronto
>>> Lecturer, University of Toronto
>>>
>>>> On Dec 12, 2016, at 7:40 PM, JD Townsend via HumanSer 
>>>> <humanser at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello:
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately Electronic Medical Records are, well almost, 
>>>> universal in hospitals and in most larger agencies.  The programs 
>>>> are rarely easily accessible for blind folks and do take more time 
>>>> for light-dependent folks as well.
>>>>
>>>> So, is it worth it?  Yes, speaking for myself, it is. Always the 
>>>> documentation takes more time and effort than we would like to 
>>>> spend, but the insurance companies demand it. If these documents 
>>>> were developed to be of clinical importance, they would look very 
>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> The ability to provide psychotherapy is a great honor and 
>>>> challenge. Always there will be paperwork.  The EMR programs are 
>>>> many and, unfortunately, do not meet ADA or Rehab Act 
>>>> requirements.  At some time, soon I hope, the NFB will challenge 
>>>> them in court.  Until then, we have to wade through a migraine of 
>>>> adjustment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JD
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Wade via HumanSer
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 5:23 PM
>>>> To: Human Services Division Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Cheryl Wade
>>>> Subject: [humanser] Do you know about these?
>>>>
>>>> Hi, listers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I took part in a job interview today at a counseling center that is
>>>> under the umbrella of a hospital.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The interviewer said the company uses Intelligence Medical Software,
>>>> part of HealthTech, and Phoenix software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have any of you used either of these software types? Is any research
>>>> available?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suppose my broader question is, Why bother being a counselor if the
>>>> act of paperwork is so time-consuming that a person who is blind never
>>>> can keep up? It took me weeks even to feel comfortable with the 
>>>> software
>>>> I'm using. What was the learning process for you folks? How can you 
>>>> ever
>>>> make a living at this when it's so much work and such a drag to do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please tell me if all this is worth the effort, and why.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheryl Wade, Outpatient Therapist
>>>>
>>>> Sacred Heart Rehabilitation Center
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HumanSer mailing list
>>>> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for HumanSer:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/43210%40bellsouth.net 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JD Townsend LCSW
>>>> Helping the light dependent to see.
>>>> Daytona Beach, Earth, Sol System
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HumanSer mailing list
>>>> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for HumanSer:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/gduff%40stjoestoronto.ca 
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HumanSer mailing list
>>> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for HumanSer:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89%40cox.net 
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HumanSer mailing list
>> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> HumanSer:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/wadecher%40msu.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HumanSer mailing list
> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> HumanSer:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HumanSer mailing list
> HumanSer at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> HumanSer:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/humanser_nfbnet.org/wadecher%40msu.edu