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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There is no value in the extra expense of more machines because quite frankly people who don’t think they have the need to use them won’t and it would be a waste of money. While I want as much autonomy as possible, unless you demand that all sighted people type, you will never bridge the gap with write-in ballots. Quite frankly I don’t think people are looking that closely at the ballots to see whose response looks typed versus which response is hand-written and if the hand written one is not readable it won’t be counted anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For sighted people with no vision issues our machines are pretty daunting and while we can encourage people to use them, I think the likelihood that they will is slim to none.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I am with Justin here: people will start using the machines more as their vision deteriorates if they have no other way of voting but often as not they will get around that by having someone help them vote or by doing absentee ballots.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I say let’s get it as close as possible to get it done but not to get into an analysis paralysis situation. At that point nothing gets accfomplished and I am more in favor of getting the job done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Jeanette<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Massachusetts-NFB [mailto:massachusetts-nfb-bounces@nfbnet.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mary via Massachusetts-NFB<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 29, 2023 11:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Justin Salisbury'; 'NFB of Massachusetts E-mail List'<br><b>Cc:</b> Mary<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Massachusetts-NFB] a view supporting H3577<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I wrote back to Justin’s message last night, but it doesn’t seem to have made it to this list. I hope this message does. I apologize, Justin, if you see this twice, or if it did reach this list but somehow didn’t make it to our e-mail here. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Al<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>COPIED MESSAGE:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Greetings!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Justin asks a fair question:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Al, if you really want to have uniform ballots, do you have a plan in mind for how we are going to make those ballots truly uniform? When people add the names of write-in candidates, how is that going to become uniform between those who marked the ballot with a device and those who Input the candidate’s name in their handwriting? <br><br>My answer is that I can live with the differences, which will be less and less frequent if more people find the machines worth using. If people are indeed being “invited” to join us in using those machines, and not in some way being forced to do it, I’d expect that change will be gradual anyway. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think Resolution 2019-05 referred to a bill then in the Senate that would restrict use of voting machines to people with disabilities. I have not heard that this became law, so I don’t know what the state of Federal or Massachusetts law is on the point. If making those machines available to all voters requires changing the law, and if we can get more of them, then I’d happily support that: not only is that in line with NFB policy, but it makes good sense generally to me. I’d guess that can be added to H3577, but it also can be a separate bill and is not to me a reason to oppose H3577.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Al<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT@alumni.ecu.edu> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 28, 2023 7:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> NFB of Massachusetts E-mail List <massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Al and Masha Sten-Clanton <sweeties2@verizon.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Massachusetts-NFB] a view supporting H3577<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good evening! <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Clearly, some time and effort went into that email, and I am grateful for the willingness of our members to put in that time and effort.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Al, if you really want to have uniform ballots, do you have a plan in mind for how we are going to make those ballots truly uniform? When people add the names of write-in candidates, how is that going to become uniform between those who marked the ballot with a device and those who Input the candidate’s name in their handwriting? <br><br>I cannot figure out how we are supposed to make ballots look exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What we have managed to do in other states is allow and invite sighted people and otherwise non-disabled people to join us in using the ballot marking device. Then, it’s not only us using it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>When something is only the domain of a marginalized group, it is maintained less effectively than something that is the domain of all.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for your contribution to this very important discourse.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Justin<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile: 808.797.8606<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Email: <a href="mailto:808salisbury@gmail.com">808salisbury@gmail.com</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>ResearchGate: <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury"><span lang=EN>https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Sep 28, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Al and Masha Sten-Clanton via Massachusetts-NFB <<a href="mailto:massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org">massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Greetings!<br><br><br>Given that we are testifying on H3577 as individuals, I wrote in support of the Bill last Tuesday. I believe it aligns with NFB policy, though it doesn't go as far as some of us thing it should.<br><br><br>H3577 would require a uniform ballot.This doesn't eliminate the differences between the hand-marked and machine-marked ballots, but it does go some way in reducing the separateness of our ballots and should make it less likely that somebody looking at ballots will know ours from those of our sighted peers. If there are more machines available and more voters are persuaded to use them, and if they actually work well, then I think our privacy, our anonymity, will be secured.<br><br><br>I doubt that we need to make machines the primary way to vote in order to have our privacy. Resolution 2019-05 does call for that, and if it happens by way of persuasion, then that will be great. Having more such machines and more voters using them won't guarantee that poll workers will know how to help us blind folks use them, since we will need the headphones that sometimes go missing and the speech output that other voters won't need. Still, it should help us vote without trouble at the polls most of the time. I also suspect that many if not most voters will usually want to mark their ballots by hand, if only to avoid dealing with a machine. I would myself if I could. If I'm wrong about most voters, so be it: I've certainly done no survey to find out.<br><br><br>What I don't want is for most people to vote using regular ballots and us to vote using machines that spit out bar or QR code receipts. That's the very opposite of uniform. I believe that this is why H3577 contains the language concerning these things. If all voters used machines that produced these code, we'd have uniformity, but I seriously doubt that most voters would like paper ballots they can proofread with their eyes to be replaced by paper receipts with cryptic codes they can't read. Now, I've never read a ballot of mine after voting, and certainly could not have read the paper ballots created by my online votes. (I've read that you can proofread your ballot with the current Automark machines, but I didn't know that until last week.) Still, I have no interest in denying my sighted peers the ability to check directly with their eyes the paper ballots on which they have voted. I have read Resolution 2019-05 several times, and it has no reference to bar or QR codes, so I see nothing in my view on this that is out of line with our policy--at least as set forth in that resolution.<br><br><br>I note that if I'm wrong about these codes, somebody who knows better should feel free to correct me. I stress that I have no idea whether they'd cause security problems or not, only that receipts containing these codes would not be readable in the way a normal ballot now is.<br><br><br>Justin makes a good point about market competition, but I think that point applies only if you want what's on offer. I hope there are several voting machine companies whose devices handle regular, uniform paper ballots. Unless somebody can show me the error of my ways, however, I do not want Massachusetts to buy as its choice of machine one that, if I understand correctly, substitutes receipts with codes on them for ballots. I'm very glad that Democracy Live has enabled me to vote from the privacy of my home, but I have no wish to give it any special political advantage: that's often a good way to raise prices and lower quality. I just want a certain quality of voting machine.<br><br><br>Incidentally, for over twenty years I've been annoyed repeatedly with the emphasis many people have put on paper ballots. I'd hoped that we could all vote online if we wanted, and that the electronic votes cast could be counted almost instantly. I still hope that can happen, but it hasn't and may never happen. Indeed, in the midst of the conspiracy storms about voting machines, paper ballots may be necessary. If this is true, then those ballots should be easily readable by those who cast them.<br><br><br>Finally, I do not see the issue here as "separate but equal," at least, not primarily. Rather, as I said earlier, it's about our privacy, about the anonymity that makes that privacy possible. I've voted twice online, and that system is to some degree "separate," and, I hope, equal: in order to use the system, I needed to say that my reason was a disability. I'd be happier if I didn't have to do that, but unless that information goes to those counting the votes, the system should give me the secret ballot I claim a right to. It certainly draws a lot less attention to me than using a voting machine at a polling place does. Also, since others do vote online, we blind people can hide among them.<br><br><br>In closing, I hope people who plan to send in testimony on H3577 will consider what I have written and then testify as they think best. I hope this piece of writing does the job I intend for it.<br><br><br>Best!<br><br>Al<br><br><br><br><br>On 9/27/23 16:45, Justin Salisbury via Massachusetts-NFB wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Fellow Federationists:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>After extensive deliberation within the affiliate, we finally have an approach to signing on to the full testimony in opposition to H-3577. We still have a few more hours to submit testimony. I plan to submit at the end of the night. This bill that will perpetuate a separate-but-equal approach to voting for blind people in Massachusetts under the guise of supposedly doing good things that the bill actually would not do. This testimony will not be a unified affiliate testimony. It will be a bunch of individuals who have decided that NFB policy is something that they support.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Here's the plan:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>If you read the attached document with a draft testimony, and if you like it, reply to this email or send me a fresh email or text message to tell me your name, any letters that go with your name, like PhD, and the town in Massachusetts where you live. This way, the names signed at the end of the testimony will be specifically only those people who reached out to say they wanted to sign on. It will be like a petition.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>At the end of the testimony, it will look like this:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Justin Salisbury, MEd, NOMC, NCRTB; Athol, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>John Doe, MBA; Springfield, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Barack Obama, Esq.; Cambridge, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Jill Biden, EdD; New Bedford, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Elizabeth Warren, Esq.; Cambridge, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Giles Corey; Salem, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Nomar Garciaparra; Boston, MA<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>etc.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>I hope you'll be willing to sign on as individuals.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Justin<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Justin MH Salisbury, MEd, NOMC, NCRTB<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>English Pronouns: he/him/his<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Phone: 808.797.8606<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Email: <a href="mailto:President@Alumni.ECU.edu">President@Alumni.ECU.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Massachusetts-NFB mailing list<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Massachusetts-NFB@nfbnet.org">Massachusetts-NFB@nfbnet.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Massachusetts-NFB:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org/sweeties2%40verizon.net">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org/sweeties2%40verizon.net</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>Massachusetts-NFB mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Massachusetts-NFB@nfbnet.org">Massachusetts-NFB@nfbnet.org</a><br><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org</a><br>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Massachusetts-NFB:<br><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni.ecu.edu">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/massachusetts-nfb_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni.ecu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>