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<p>Well, you seem much more certain about who will or won't use the
machines if they're available than I am of mine. What I suppose
is that even if only a few other people use them, we'll have some
metaphorical trees to hide behind. If these things have
touchscreens, as I understand some do 9to go along with the keys
that folks like me need), they probably wouldn't be all that
daunting.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Now, I don't claim to know what would happen, but I doubt anybody
else does, either.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best!</p>
<p>Al</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/29/23 12:47, Jeanette Kutash via
Massachusetts-NFB wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:005101d9f2f4$9b80c5b0$d2825110$@comcast.net">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">There is no
value in the extra expense of more machines because quite
frankly people who don’t think they have the need to use
them won’t and it would be a waste of money. While I want as
much autonomy as possible, unless you demand that all
sighted people type, you will never bridge the gap with
write-in ballots. Quite frankly I don’t think people are
looking that closely at the ballots to see whose response
looks typed versus which response is hand-written and if the
hand written one is not readable it won’t be counted anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For sighted
people with no vision issues our machines are pretty
daunting and while we can encourage people to use them, I
think the likelihood that they will is slim to none.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am with
Justin here: people will start using the machines more as
their vision deteriorates if they have no other way of
voting but often as not they will get around that by having
someone help them vote or by doing absentee ballots.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I say let’s get
it as close as possible to get it done but not to get into
an analysis paralysis situation. At that point nothing gets
accfomplished and I am more in favor of getting the job
done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jeanette<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Massachusetts-NFB
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:massachusetts-nfb-bounces@nfbnet.org">mailto:massachusetts-nfb-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mary via Massachusetts-NFB<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 29, 2023 11:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Justin Salisbury'; 'NFB of Massachusetts
E-mail List'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Massachusetts-NFB] a view
supporting H3577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wrote back to Justin’s message last
night, but it doesn’t seem to have made it to this list. I
hope this message does. I apologize, Justin, if you see this
twice, or if it did reach this list but somehow didn’t make it
to our e-mail here. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Al<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">COPIED MESSAGE:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greetings!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin asks a fair question:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Al, if you really want to have uniform
ballots, do you have a plan in mind for how we are going to
make those ballots truly uniform? When people add the names of
write-in candidates, how is that going to become uniform
between those who marked the ballot with a device and those
who Input the candidate’s name in their handwriting? <br>
<br>
My answer is that I can live with the differences, which will
be less and less frequent if more people find the machines
worth using. If people are indeed being “invited” to join us
in using those machines, and not in some way being forced to
do it, I’d expect that change will be gradual anyway. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think Resolution 2019-05 referred to a
bill then in the Senate that would restrict use of voting
machines to people with disabilities. I have not heard that
this became law, so I don’t know what the state of Federal or
Massachusetts law is on the point. If making those machines
available to all voters requires changing the law, and if we
can get more of them, then I’d happily support that: not only
is that in line with NFB policy, but it makes good sense
generally to me. I’d guess that can be added to H3577, but it
also can be a separate bill and is not to me a reason to
oppose H3577.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Al<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Justin Salisbury
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:PRESIDENT@alumni.ecu.edu"><PRESIDENT@alumni.ecu.edu></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 28, 2023 7:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NFB of Massachusetts E-mail List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org"><massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Al and Masha Sten-Clanton
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sweeties2@verizon.net"><sweeties2@verizon.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Massachusetts-NFB] a view supporting
H3577<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good evening! <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Clearly, some time and effort went into
that email, and I am grateful for the willingness of our
members to put in that time and effort.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Al, if you really want to have uniform
ballots, do you have a plan in mind for how we are going to
make those ballots truly uniform? When people add the names
of write-in candidates, how is that going to become uniform
between those who marked the ballot with a device and those
who Input the candidate’s name in their handwriting? <br>
<br>
I cannot figure out how we are supposed to make ballots look
exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What we have managed to do in other
states is allow and invite sighted people and otherwise
non-disabled people to join us in using the ballot marking
device. Then, it’s not only us using it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When something is only the domain of a
marginalized group, it is maintained less effectively than
something that is the domain of all.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your contribution to this
very important discourse.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: 808.797.8606<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a
href="mailto:808salisbury@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">808salisbury@gmail.com</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">ResearchGate: <a
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">LinkedIn: <a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN">https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">“In the End, we will remember not the
words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Sep
28, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Al and Masha Sten-Clanton via
Massachusetts-NFB <<a
href="mailto:massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">massachusetts-nfb@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Greetings!<br>
<br>
<br>
Given that we are testifying on H3577 as individuals, I
wrote in support of the Bill last Tuesday. I believe it
aligns with NFB policy, though it doesn't go as far as
some of us thing it should.<br>
<br>
<br>
H3577 would require a uniform ballot.This doesn't
eliminate the differences between the hand-marked and
machine-marked ballots, but it does go some way in
reducing the separateness of our ballots and should make
it less likely that somebody looking at ballots will
know ours from those of our sighted peers. If there
are more machines available and more voters are
persuaded to use them, and if they actually work well,
then I think our privacy, our anonymity, will be
secured.<br>
<br>
<br>
I doubt that we need to make machines the primary way to
vote in order to have our privacy. Resolution 2019-05
does call for that, and if it happens by way of
persuasion, then that will be great. Having more such
machines and more voters using them won't guarantee that
poll workers will know how to help us blind folks use
them, since we will need the headphones that sometimes
go missing and the speech output that other voters won't
need. Still, it should help us vote without trouble at
the polls most of the time. I also suspect that many if
not most voters will usually want to mark their ballots
by hand, if only to avoid dealing with a machine. I
would myself if I could. If I'm wrong about most
voters, so be it: I've certainly done no survey to find
out.<br>
<br>
<br>
What I don't want is for most people to vote using
regular ballots and us to vote using machines that spit
out bar or QR code receipts. That's the very opposite
of uniform. I believe that this is why H3577 contains
the language concerning these things. If all voters used
machines that produced these code, we'd have uniformity,
but I seriously doubt that most voters would like paper
ballots they can proofread with their eyes to be
replaced by paper receipts with cryptic codes they can't
read. Now, I've never read a ballot of mine after
voting, and certainly could not have read the paper
ballots created by my online votes. (I've read that you
can proofread your ballot with the current Automark
machines, but I didn't know that until last week.)
Still, I have no interest in denying my sighted peers
the ability to check directly with their eyes the paper
ballots on which they have voted. I have read
Resolution 2019-05 several times, and it has no
reference to bar or QR codes, so I see nothing in my
view on this that is out of line with our policy--at
least as set forth in that resolution.<br>
<br>
<br>
I note that if I'm wrong about these codes, somebody who
knows better should feel free to correct me. I stress
that I have no idea whether they'd cause security
problems or not, only that receipts containing these
codes would not be readable in the way a normal ballot
now is.<br>
<br>
<br>
Justin makes a good point about market competition, but
I think that point applies only if you want what's on
offer. I hope there are several voting machine
companies whose devices handle regular, uniform paper
ballots. Unless somebody can show me the error of my
ways, however, I do not want Massachusetts to buy as its
choice of machine one that, if I understand correctly,
substitutes receipts with codes on them for ballots.
I'm very glad that Democracy Live has enabled me to vote
from the privacy of my home, but I have no wish to give
it any special political advantage: that's often a good
way to raise prices and lower quality. I just want a
certain quality of voting machine.<br>
<br>
<br>
Incidentally, for over twenty years I've been annoyed
repeatedly with the emphasis many people have put on
paper ballots. I'd hoped that we could all vote online
if we wanted, and that the electronic votes cast could
be counted almost instantly. I still hope that can
happen, but it hasn't and may never happen. Indeed, in
the midst of the conspiracy storms about voting
machines, paper ballots may be necessary. If this is
true, then those ballots should be easily readable by
those who cast them.<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, I do not see the issue here as "separate but
equal," at least, not primarily. Rather, as I said
earlier, it's about our privacy, about the anonymity
that makes that privacy possible. I've voted twice
online, and that system is to some degree "separate,"
and, I hope, equal: in order to use the system, I
needed to say that my reason was a disability. I'd be
happier if I didn't have to do that, but unless that
information goes to those counting the votes, the system
should give me the secret ballot I claim a right to. It
certainly draws a lot less attention to me than using a
voting machine at a polling place does. Also, since
others do vote online, we blind people can hide among
them.<br>
<br>
<br>
In closing, I hope people who plan to send in testimony
on H3577 will consider what I have written and then
testify as they think best. I hope this piece of
writing does the job I intend for it.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best!<br>
<br>
Al<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/27/23 16:45, Justin Salisbury via Massachusetts-NFB
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Fellow Federationists:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">After extensive deliberation within
the affiliate, we finally have an approach to signing
on to the full testimony in opposition to H-3577. We
still have a few more hours to submit testimony. I
plan to submit at the end of the night. This bill that
will perpetuate a separate-but-equal approach to
voting for blind people in Massachusetts under the
guise of supposedly doing good things that the bill
actually would not do. This testimony will not be a
unified affiliate testimony. It will be a bunch of
individuals who have decided that NFB policy is
something that they support.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Here's the plan:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">If you read the attached document
with a draft testimony, and if you like it, reply to
this email or send me a fresh email or text message to
tell me your name, any letters that go with your name,
like PhD, and the town in Massachusetts where you
live. This way, the names signed at the end of the
testimony will be specifically only those people who
reached out to say they wanted to sign on. It will be
like a petition.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">At the end of the testimony, it
will look like this:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin Salisbury, MEd, NOMC, NCRTB;
Athol, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">John Doe, MBA; Springfield, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Barack Obama, Esq.; Cambridge, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jill Biden, EdD; New Bedford, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Elizabeth Warren, Esq.; Cambridge,
MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Giles Corey; Salem, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Nomar Garciaparra; Boston, MA<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you'll be willing to sign on
as individuals.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Justin MH Salisbury, MEd, NOMC,
NCRTB<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">English Pronouns: he/him/his<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: 808.797.8606<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a
href="mailto:President@Alumni.ECU.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">President@Alumni.ECU.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Massachusetts-NFB:
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