[MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
Mike Jolls
mrspock56 at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 5 01:09:03 UTC 2020
I’ll throw my two cents in. Here’s an idea I have, but you should know it is geared to low vision players, not to the blind.
1. Have music scanned in, then OCR it to an application that will convert it to Music XML.
2. Have an app that would do the following:
* read the Music XML file and render the music in graphical form (it displays the staff, clefs, notes, phrase markings, music symbols, etc ..) on a large monitor.
* Allow zooming the music up and down, and would re-fit the music measures to the width and height of a monitor.
* Take input from Bluetooth page turning hardware so you could page through a multi-page piece of music by tapping with your feet.
* Allow marking up the music with notations and associate them with the music and save the composition and markings back to MusicXML format so you could reload it when desired
* Save multiple songs, create a set of songs you want to perform.
* Load all songs in a set so you’re ready to perform the set.
3. The application would run on a small device such as a Raspberry PI.
4. The PI would be connected to a large 26” portable monitor, and it would also be connected to the page turning device.
5. The total getup would allow you to prepare your music at home, then take the monitor, page turn pedal, PI to where you’re going to perform. This would be your “Music Stand”. You can then arrive at the gig, set it up, load the music, and play. And, the music would be large enough to comfortably see at the performance.
There is already a commercial product out there, but it’s expensive. I think the system is in the thousands. My idea would be to sell the software at a smaller fee, and tell the end user what hardware to go buy and how to set it up.
Also, I think the current commercial company will convert your music to MusicXML, but it’s expensive for them to do it. My idea would be to find an app that does that. You compose the music (maybe even in Finale or similar product) and then use the “Export to XML format” option. With the music in XML format, you can then ingest it into the application.
This application (at least as I envision it) doesn’t exist now. It’s something I’d definitely be interested in, as I’m a low vision musician. Currently I use a glasses with a telescope mounted into the glasses to be able to read my music. I can only see about 1 measure at a time. With what I’m proposing, the whole screen would be magnified and maybe you’d get to see more than what I’m seeing with my scope.
Anyway, that’s my idea for a portable system. If someone could do that, and it would be a LOT of work, would that be something people could get excited about?
Thanks.
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Bill McCann via MusicTlk<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 4:19 PM
To: 'Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians'<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>; bill32607 at gmail.com<mailto:bill32607 at gmail.com>
Cc: Bill McCann<mailto:billlist1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
Hi,
If the tablature notation can be converted to MusicXML, our Lime software can import the MusicXML and render it as standard staff notation. Once in Lime, our Lime Aloud accessibility feature can describe each note verbally as it sounds and play it back to a metronomic click at any tempo. If our GOODFEEL software is installed, the equivalent braille music notation can be simultaneously shown on your braille display. It even tracks in sync with the staff notation during playback. Of course, you can also produce a hardcopy braille music score.
After just poking around a bit with my favorite search engine, it appears that Guitar Pro has an option to export tabs to MusicXML. If anybody has Guitar Pro, could you please export one or two of your favorite tablature examples to MusicXML and email them to my info at dancingdots.com address? I would like to import them into Lime and pass the results to GOODFEEL for automatic transcription into music braille. I will report back to the list.
Bill McCann
Dancing Dots
Tel: +1 610-783-6692
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.DancingDots.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C152b5a0a470240d016ae08d7a9c04f38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637164515733677295&sdata=l1%2BwAnuyhmeWdAxTxo9A8pnqs2QU%2B2PZAr1gIPSQN48%3D&reserved=0
-----Original Message-----
From: MusicTlk [mailto:musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Reiser via MusicTlk
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 12:45 PM
To: bill32607 at gmail.com; Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians
Cc: Kirk Reiser
Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
Hi gang, I am a hobby guitarist and a retired coder and have not ever
found something open source to provide tab/braille music for blinks. I
would be willing to work on a project to come up with something with a
like minded group of other musicians and geeks if there's any interest
in something along those lines.
I know lillypond can produce braille music output from music.xml files
but I'm not familiar what other benefits it has for accessibility.
I also know there is a format and utilities for writing 'abc' to read
the format and write midi files and the reverse. That could be also
useful for producing braille music or tab.
I don't know of anything that reads and writes gpx files but it
wouldn't surprise me if there is something I just haven't found yet.
Anyway I just wanted to let people know I'd be willing to help work on
something if there's enough interest. You can write me off-line if you
don't wish to clutter up this list with the subject kirk at reisers.ca.
Kirk
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020, Bill Holton via MusicTlk wrote:
>
> Hi.
> There is also an Android app called Lunar Tabs
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.projectpossibility.lunartabsandroid%26hl%3Den_US&data=02%7C01%7C%7C152b5a0a470240d016ae08d7a9c04f38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637164515733677295&sdata=OKDakMhkfIeQvpH6qkvsudUukjhnasVMp2cfniWI2Ao%3D&reserved=0
>
> that will take theser same .gp files and make them more accessible, displaying them in text or sound by any slice you like. I write a bout this and other guitar resources in the upcoming February issue of AccessWorld.
> And hey, Rick, give me a call to catch up.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MusicTlk <musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of RicksPlace via MusicTlk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 8:54 AM
> To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians <musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: RicksPlace <richardrthomas48 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
>
>
> Hi Tylor:
> Many Websites have every kind of song in Tablature format.
> One of the most popular file type for downloads and working on these files by guitarists and other fretted string players is a file format with the extension .gp3 or .gp4 or gp5 ... latest i think is gp7.
> (Acommon communication notation, between programmers or musicians, for Guitar Pro file types is .gpx where .gpx could be gp6 gp7 or whatever by replacing the variable "x" with some numeric value).
> For example perhaps MySong.gp7 would be the gp7 file for a song with the title of MySong.
> Millions of songs are available for free or for a small price (for professional versions) from several popular Websites and DataBases.
> The Company who makes the software program called "Guitar Pro" is located in France if I remember correctly.
> [From the GuitarPro website:]
> Guitar Pro allows you to edit your music scores and tablature for guitar, bass, and ukulele, as well as create backing tracks for drums or piano. This is a most thorough yet user-friendly tool for musicians who wish to get better, compose, or simply play along. Download our free trial and start editing your own music...
> Guitar Pro features
> Guitar Pro 7.5,
> a major step forward
> This new version is free for Guitar Pro 7 users. Opening tool windows by clicking on the score, file explorer, tablature editing for 9- and 10- strings guitars, mySongBook integration, batch conversion tool, MIDI import improvement, better orchestral soundbanks, enhanced drums view – discover the many new features of this update.
> ...
> The library of music scores created by Guitar Pro mySongBook brings you over 2,000 Guitar Pro transcriptions of your favorite songs available directly in the Guitar Pro software. You can shop for music scores by the unit or with our full access subscription that allows you to collect files from the entire library.
> [Ultimate Guitar and other sites also hold .gpx files and millions of songs and versions of songs are available] The catch is that the GuitarPro software programs user interface is not screen reader accessible.
> I contacted the company and they have no plans to make their software accessible to the blind.
> Anyway, this is what a .gpx file is all about and several currently available software packages can read them and use them for displaying, editing and generating other file types based off the initial .gpx file format - my first exposure to all this was via MuseScore.
> Thus I am trying to understand which package, LillyPond, Lime or MuseScore would be either the best platform to use in native form or which might be the best platform for creating my own computerized screen reader friendly project based on the gpx file format.
> HTH: Thanks for the reply.
> Rick USA
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Tyler Zahnke via MusicTlk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:09 AM
> To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians
> Cc: Tyler Zahnke
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
>
> I've never heard of a GPX file. Okay, LilyPond itself only takes Lily files and can save MIDI and PDF, however, LilyPond comes with Python, and some programs that can run on Python. One of these Python programs can take a MusicXML file and convert it to LilyPond format; another can convert MIDI to LilyPond, however, this one produces overly complicated code with specific note velocities and such; well, maybe the complexity depends on the complexity of the MIDI file itself. So there are modules for converting those formats to LilyPond; LilyPond music can be edited in regular text programs like Notepad. However, I've never heard of a GPX file, however, LilyPond is open-source, so there are probably Python modules for converting it to LilyPond; maybe someone wrote a reverse module that can convert LilyPond to MusicXML, but like I said, LilyPond itself only converts its own format to MIDI and PDF, but there are so many little modules that there are definitely files being converted to a
nd from the LilyPond format, but I've never heard of GPX, it sounds like a format specific to a certain program.
>
> On 2/4/20, RicksPlace via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi:
>> I am an old Programmer who plays ukulele, use to play guitar.
>> I have been thinking about using MuseScore to take in a guitarPro file
>> and generate a Music XML file.
>> I found out that it may be possible to just use MuseScore to read the
>> music within the MuseScore user interface itself as was mentioned
>> about LillyPond and Lime.
>> I want to get sheet music files in some form, Tablature would likely
>> be best, and be able to learn the chords and guitar solos and finger
>> style or even jazz on guitar.
>> I can usually convert music from guitar to ukulele in many cases.
>> What features can be used by blind folks in the projects you mentioned
>> and do they provide .gpx file support?
>> Can you talk a little about the commonalities and diferences in
>> LillyPond, MuseScore and Lime?
>> I was going to take in a .GPX file from someplace like Ultimate Guitar
>> or some site that exports .gpx files for download.
>> Then use MuseScore to generate a xml file.
>> Finally I would write a computer program to parse the xml, produce a
>> Screen Reader friendly and, or, other user interface types for the
>> blind, and save it all to a DataBase.
>> Do these projects you mention take in Guitar Pro files?
>> I might also set up my project to be hands free so I can keep both
>> hands on my uke when working through a piece, foot peddles?.
>> But if these features already exist I dont want to ReInvent the wheel
>> as it were.
>> Later and it is great to hear others have been there and done that as
>> it were.
>> Rick USA
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Bill McCann via MusicTlk
>> Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 5:21 PM
>> To: 'Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians'
>> Cc: Bill McCann
>> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
>>
>> Hi Shannon,
>>
>> You might consider a suite of software called Lime Aloud which is a
>> subset of the components that comprise the product we call GOODFEEL.
>> Lime Aloud is basically GOODFEEL without the braille music. We have
>> numerous customers who have learned a lot of music simply by listening
>> to Lime Aloud play the piece back at any tempo or by moving along note
>> by note to hear the pitch sound as the screen reader speaks the pitch,
>> octave, and duration of that note plus any other related details such
>> as a dynamic mark of pianissimo.
>>
>> If you or anyone else would like to evaluate the software for 15 days
>> at no cost, please write me off-list using my info at DancingDots.com
>> address and I will send you download and authorization directions. We
>> can schedule a time to meet by phone and I can walk you through basic
>> operations.
>>
>> In closing, here is a brief functional description of the Lime Aloud suite.
>> Remember, if you are interested in braille music output, GOODFEEL can
>> do all of what is described below plus automatically transcribe the
>> music to the equivalent braille music.
>>
>> We do offer a subscription alternative to purchasing our software
>> which makes it more affordable for many people.
>>
>> ...
>> Lime Aloud Suite
>> Typical user: Auditory learner who does not use braille music who
>> needs to study and/or create musical scores
>> Sighted assistant who needs to create accessible
>> scores for auditory learners to study
>>
>> Purpose: Automates transcription of printed scores into accessible
>> "talking"
>> scores consisting of verbal and musical cues and provides accessible
>> environment for writing print scores. Suite of 3 software titles:
>> SharpEye (music-scanning),
>> Lime (read/write print scores),
>> Lime Aloud (scripts JAWS screen reader to generate verbal cues from Lime).
>> Other screen readers such as NVDA now supported.
>>
>> . Blind users can read and write musical scores using verbal, and
>> musical cues.
>> . Blind users can read and write scores and print their compositions
>> and arrangements out in standard staff notation for sighted people to read.
>>
>> . Sighted people can prepare scores for blind users to access with
>> Lime.
>>
>> Options for creating scores in Lime format (applies to both GOODFEEL
>> and Lime Lighter solution for partially sighted):
>> 1. Scores can be imported into Lime as MusicXML, NIFF, or MIDI from
>> programs like Finale and Sibelius.
>> 2. Scores can be scanned with SharpEye and results passed to Lime.
>> 3. Score information can be entered manually into Lime using the
>> mouse, PC keyboard, a musical keyboard, or any combination of all three.
>>
>> To listen to a presentation of the talking score feature called Lime
>> Aloud, choose the link "Lime Aloud Audio Presentation" on our page at
>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingdots.com%2Fmain%2Fpresentations.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C152b5a0a470240d016ae08d7a9c04f38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637164515733677295&sdata=Px9mGRkEY4ZzB2niJEMPAkpUNWnqgd3p5AHQvaw2qhE%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Details at:
>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dancingdots.com%2Fprodesc%2Flimealoud.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C152b5a0a470240d016ae08d7a9c04f38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637164515733677295&sdata=MAp3WlTpliseWbBkBP9tei8Sv0TmS0mufbiTGeoPk5Q%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> Bill McCann
>> Dancing Dots
>>
>> Tel: +1 610-783-6692
>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.DancingDots.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C152b5a0a470240d016ae08d7a9c04f38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637164515733687305&sdata=U3FkavkXcmzzNyAHGqKoPQKIUCo4dtvlernGgxsupms%3D&reserved=0
>> Dancing Dots
>> 1754 Quarry LN
>> Ste DD
>> Phoenixville, PA 19460-4620
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: MusicTlk [mailto:musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Shannon Williams via MusicTlk
>> Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 4:11 PM
>> To: musictlk at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: shanahanw1983 at gmail.com
>> Subject: [MusicTlk] Newbie Intro
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> My name is Shannon and I'm from Ontario Canada. I've always loved
>> music from a young age and took piano lessons as a young child. When I
>> was in high school I learned to play the flute and still play today in
>> a local concert band. When learning piano and the flute I was able to
>> use very large printed music to learn all the theory and notes and
>> such but now my vision has changed and I'm having to find new ways of
>> learning new pieces. I used to have a fellow band mate input the flute
>> music into MuseScore so that I could learn it that way and have
>> another friend who records the part as an mp3 on piano so I can learn
>> the notes and phrasing. I need to find some new ways of learning the
>> music though because the person who used MuseScore can't do it anymore
>> so all I have is the mp3 recordings. I've started looking at braille
>> music as an option as well as Dancing Dots software. It looks like
>> Dancing Dots is a bit out of my price range and it looks like getting
>> Braille music from my local blindness organization (CNIB) will take a
>> long time. I was wondering what other people use for learning new
>> pieces if you don't have perfect pitch? Also what tools can I use
>> during practice so that when our director asks us to start at a
>> certain bar of music I can quickly reference where they're starting
>> from and play along? Also if anyone knows of any flute tutorials or
>> instructional material that is accessible I'm always looking for
>> things like that. As I live in Canada, I do not have access to NLS so
>> it's a bit more difficult for me to find instructional and practice material. Any suggestions or comments are greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shannon
>>
>>
>>
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>> t
>>
>>
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