[MusicTlk] Two quick questions about learning piano pieces and getting better at Braille music

Tue Apr 20 17:33:45 UTC 2021

It all makes sense to me, Mike. Although I've been asking for
resources at the beginning of this thread, I do have some
piano-playing background and want to get back into it. I'd really like
to see these method books available to buy in Braille, though; they're
invaluable. To me, it's a little like learning a sport or anything
else that takes skill and grace and confidence. With a complicated
piece, you can be playing along and all of a sudden come to that point
where you need to know how to play a diminished run or an arpeggio or
a trill and your muscle memory kicks in the way it would if you need
to know how to pitch in baseball or do a really long kick or pass in
football or do a triple axle in skating.

Jen

On 4/20/21, jovian3--- via MusicTlk <musictlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I am not sure what the Hannon exercises are since I cannot read print
> anymore. But I do agree about learning arpeggios and certain similar
> patterns because these do occur fairly often in music pieces. But I have
> not
> come across many scale in a piece. The only one I came across that does is
> Sonata in C major by Mozart. I am all for learning theory but my point was
> about practicing scales to perfection.
> Thanks
> Jo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MusicTlk <musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Jolls via
> MusicTlk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:45 PM
> To: musictlk at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Mike Jolls <mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Two quick questions about learning piano pieces and
> getting better at Braille music
>
> Hi Jo
>
> The reason for the scale work, and also practicing exercises such as
> Hannon,
> is because they are useful tools.  In piano, you have scale exercises,
> arpeggios, diminished run exercises, dominant seventh run exercises, trill
> exercises, and so on.  These are all used later when you get into more
> difficult pieces.  Knowing them before you get to the pieces means you
> don't
> have to think as much about how to do them when they show up in these
> pieces.  Your hands and brain are already used to doing them.  Knowing them
> saves you time later.  And you can also "throw them in and be creative"
> when
> you get into a playing situation where they fit.  And it's not always
> classical music where these are used.
>
> I've heard people in the past say .. "why do I need to know all this theory
> stuff?"  .. Or .. "why do I have to know my keys and practice scales?".
> The
> answer is that when you know theory, you know your scales and keys, when
> you've learned these exercises, it makes it easier to play what you want to
> play.  As I say above, when these types of note patterns appear in the
> music, you already know how to play them.
>
> An example is when I was learning how to play "The Easy Winners" by Joplin.
> The music is going along and all of a sudden, there's a diminished run in
> the music.  I had been practicing a diminished run exercise in Hannon
> previously.  My hands were already used to making the movements in the
> technique.  When this showed up in the music, I already knew how to play
> it.
> It took less practicing to learn those few measures than it would have if I
> had to learn the notes AND how to play the pattern.
>
> Sure I understand that there are a lot of people that "just want to play
> the
> music" and they might complain that they aren't trying to get Carnegie Hall
> and aren't a concert pianist.  But trust me.  I spent the time learning the
> exercises.  They are at my disposal to use as I see the need.  My playing
> improved 100% because of knowing these skills and it gave me the confidence
> to know that I could throw in an arpeggio or diminished run, or whatever,
> when I saw the situation arise.  Bottom line, it's worth the time and
> effort.  This is one of those intangible things.  When you're playing and
> you need it, you're glad you know how to do it.
>
> I will say this.  I went through all 60 exercises in Hannon.  I KNOW I
> won't
> use everything on a daily basis, but there are several things in Hannon
> (and
> other exercise books) that are worth their weight in gold that I practice
> on
> a regular basis to keep them sharp.  They are that useful.
>
> Does that give you some understanding as to why to learn the exercises?
>
> And hey, other piano players . what do you have to say?  Am I just blowing
> hot air?
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> From: jovian3 at gmail.com<mailto:jovian3 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 10:40 AM
> To: 'Music Talk Mailing List for Blind
> Musicians'<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: 'Mike Jolls'<mailto:mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [MusicTlk] Two quick questions about learning piano pieces and
> getting better at Braille music
>
> Hi Mike and all,
>
> You mentioned in your email below that it is important to practice scales.
> Can you tell us why that is? I had teachers saying that as well but I
> always
> wondered if this was truly useful or it was just a stall tactic. I mean
> instead of practicing scales why not go and practice the piano piece
> itself?
> It is not like you will be performing scales to others...
> Regards
> Jo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MusicTlk <musictlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Jolls via
> MusicTlk
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:54 PM
> To: Music Talk Mailing List for Blind Musicians <musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mike Jolls <mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Two quick questions about learning piano pieces and
> getting better at Braille music
>
> Dear Jennifer
>
> I can't speak to reading Braille music, but I can speak to playing
> classical.
>
> First, find a good method book series that can prepare you with some
> simpler
> music, give you theory, etc .  I studied the John Thompson books (I would
> suggest avoiding the Shuam books . too juvenile).  And while you're doing
> that, make sure you study your scales, keys, and exercises such as Hannon.
> I have the book with all 60 exercises.  Hannon is good for stretching your
> fingers, and there are some exercises that you will use in classical
> pieces.
> The Trill (covered in Hannon) is a critical skill, for example.  I've found
> other skills in Hannon that I practice on a regular basis to keep the
> skills
> up.  Starting off with the method book and Hannon and other exercises will
> give you a background when you eventually get to the classical works.  And
> it won't take you that long to get through this prep work if you're
> serious.
> I think I studied for a couple of years before starting to tackle my first
> classical piece (Chopin Nocturne 9 No. 2).  And I really NEEDED to do that
> prep work.
>
> Make sure you have a good teacher.  If you don't have one, get one.  A good
> teacher is worth their weight in gold.  They will save you time.  They'll
> show you fingering patters that will be important when learning certain
> pieces.  They will correct mistakes from becoming bad habits that have to
> be
> broken.  And trust me on this . ALL TEAHCERS ARE NOT CREATED EQUALLY.  The
> teacher I had before COVID was a teacher of blind students.  He knew how to
> teach me to play by feel.  That was important because with my poor vision,
> seeing to hit the keys rapidly was a bit beyond my visual ability.  Playing
> by feel and using muscle memory has been key to my success.  My first two
> teachers didn't have a clue about helping me with my vision problem.  My
> third teacher really cut through the problem and helped me a lot.
>
> And let me say, if the teacher that you find that works for you is more
> expensive, PAY IT.  My third teacher was $35 a half hour, but he was SOOOOO
> worth it.  The first two teachers were less money, but they couldn't help
> me
> deal with the vision problem in the way I needed help.
>
> Also, if the teacher tells you all you need to learn is to play chords in
> the left hand and melody in the right (which is what my first teacher did
> ..
> who worked at a music store) .. and says you don't need Hannon, find
> another
> teacher.  I improved so much with learning Hannon, and I wasted a year with
> him.  Well, I did learn SOME THINGS, but I eventually left.
>
> When playing classical pieces, repetition will be key.  Take it a line on
> the page at a time, or maybe even a couple of measures at a time.  Play
> hands separate, and a bit slowly on each hand until you get it in your
> brain.  Then when both hands can play their part and you know the timing,
> play hands together slowly.  As you get the passages you're working on, you
> can speed it up.  Remember what my third teacher told me.  If you can't
> play
> it slowly, you can't play it fast.  SO TRUE!!
>
> In your case with Braille music, you'll be reading it a measure or two at a
> time and learning each hand and putting them together.  I'm a low vision
> sighted player.  I play off of sheet music and read it with a telescope,
> and
> I have to do that too.  The only difference is that I'm reading sheet music
> and you're reading Braille.
>
> I hope that gives you some tips.  So far I've learned how to play (with my
> third teacher's help)
>
> Scott Joplin . Maple Leaf Rag, Easy Winners, The Entertainer Claude
> Debussay
> . Claire De Lune Chopin . Nocturne in Eb major
>
> Each of these pieces took about 3 months at minimum to learn.  It takes
> time
> and dedication and practice on a regular basis but it is sooooo worth it as
> you're going along and you get it.
>
> I've been on my own for about a year because of COVID and I'm learning
> Franz
> Liszt's Liebestraum.  It's definitely challenging.  Maybe I can get back to
> my teacher.  I miss working with him.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from
> Mail<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.mic
> rosoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7C08253695d6e54
> 9caf9ab08d90412972f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63754530014
> 9371960%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mWnk99NSyZWW7YpqJFGsLS8HWeuH5ZoJvmEH
> numdpjk%3D&reserved=0> for Windows
> 10
>
> From: Debra Baxley via MusicTlk<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 4:23 PM
> To: Jennifer Bose via MusicTlk<mailto:musictlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Debra Baxley<mailto:debrabaxley330 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MusicTlk] Two quick questions about learning piano pieces and
> getting better at Braille music
>
> The Dancing Dots series of books is a good resource.  Though an older
> resource, try Primer Of Braille Music by Bettye Krolick. Also, How To Read
> Braille MMusic is a good one.
>
>
> Debra
>
> On 4/17/2021 4:13 PM, Jennifer Bose via MusicTlk wrote:
>> Hi, listers.
>>
>> I hope you're all well. Two quick questions here for anyone interested
>> in answering:
>> 1. What are good strategies to learn complex classical pieces (besides
>> practicing, of course): A combination of Braille music and playing by
>> ear? Any apps helpful with this?
>> What are the best current resources for getting good at reading
>> Braille piano music?
>>
>> Thanks, everyone.
>>
>> Jen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MusicTlk mailing list
>> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet
>> .org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C
>> 602afd78b89f406e7c8608d901e70537%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>> 1%7C0%7C637542914000660435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
>> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vjX5t
>> 10pDZ%2BdViXRiq48HqnSSXL39mD8kwPScJS%2Fl3Q%3D&reserved=0
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet
>> .org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fdebrabaxley330%2540gm
>> ail.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7C602afd78b89f406e7c8608d901e70537%7C84df9
>> e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637542914000660435%7CUnknown%7CT
>> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
>> 6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=K9siL7jNNItwRJve2OrrE2l6p5LOL5IbGLn2lcMpYHc%3
>> D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%
> 252>
> Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C602afd78b89f
> 406e7c8608d901e70537%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375429140
> 00660435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vjX5t10pDZ%2BdViXRiq48HqnSSXL39mD8k
> wPScJS%2Fl3Q%3D&reserved=0
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%
> 252>
> Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fmrspock56%2540hotmail.com&dat
> a=04%7C01%7C%7C602afd78b89f406e7c8608d901e70537%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
> aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637542914000660435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fYZS%2FO
> tA9Nm5ccTVKu0V6sx8d9V699n5xEM90s5u210%3D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2
> Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C08253695d6e5
> 49caf9ab08d90412972f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375453001
> 49371960%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QsvNFNyX0VW%2FOruyBBs9%2FhKxylayjIz
> kX3fFX%2BCPn%2BA%3D&reserved=0
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2
> Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmusictlk_nfbnet.org%2Fjovian3%2540gmail.com&data=04
> %7C01%7C%7C08253695d6e549caf9ab08d90412972f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637545300149371960%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=J%2Bk6DMp53Z
> n47TmU4r%2FX0rpJMRpbPbCMgb0rVMOwWaE%3D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/musictlk_nfbnet.org/jovian3%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicTlk mailing list
> MusicTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> MusicTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/musictlk_nfbnet.org/jen10514%40gmail.com
>

-- 
For a clear communication of your message, contact:
Jennifer Bose, voice talent.
Come on over for a listen at http://www.jenniferbose.com