[MusicTlk] I'd like to have a civil, nonjudgemental discussion about audio production techniques, if we can manage to do so.

Wed Nov 16 16:30:30 UTC 2022

Hi Chris,

I am not a sound engineer. I have managed, with the help of some kind 
and patient friends, to learn how to record on the Tyros 5 keyboard and 
the Audacity program. I very strongly agree with your remarks, 
particularly, regarding the subjectivity of the mixing process. I would 
add that what may be acceptable to one's ears today, may not be 
tomorrow. Therefore, I started some years ago the practice of going back 
and listening to yesterday's recordings to see if they still sounded as 
good today as they did before.

On 11/16/2022 11:03 AM, Christopher Gilland via MusicTlk wrote:
> First off, let me say this. I've been doing audio production work now 
> for practically almost 30 years and counting. Heck, if this tells you 
> anything, I started out when I was only 11 years oldd using a 
> purchased Tascam 424 Portastudio 4 track cassette mixer given to me 
> for Christmas one year by Santa... ahim... my parents.. Point being, 
> I've made many mistakes along the way, and also have made many many 
> discoveries as well. So, please please don't shoot me with my possible 
> bluntness on this topic. I think we can be very firm/direct, but 
> saying things like, you obviously don't know what the h e double 
> hockey stick you're talking about is nonproductive, and gets us 
> absolutely nowhere! So, if you can't be civil about this, then please 
> just don't say anything, and hit the delete key/move on. But if we can 
> really be civil about this, and really can objectively look at my 
> question from several standpoints possibly, then I'd really like to 
> hear from some people who also have been doing this stuff 
> professionally for a while now.
>
>
> So, here's the million dollar question:
>
>
> How important is it really truly to learn every single dad gum plugin 
> in your DAW reading it's manual front to back back and forward, 
> learning how to properly gain stage, learning how to understand the 
> ins and outs, no pun intended, of compression/E Q/reverb/delay, 
> learning how to parallel process things, sidechain things, etc?
>
>
> Now hold on here, hold on here! Don't shoot, don't shoot! I'll go 
> peacefully! Blasphamy! you say. Well, really though? Hear me out on 
> this. Just humor me here.
>
>
> You read one book on audio engineering, it says always always always 
> put a high cut filter on your reverb when doing lead vocals to get the 
> best sound. Another says to get that kick bass drum to punch/smack you 
> in the face, use a compresser with a very long attack, and a very long 
> release. Another college institution university may tell you, oh God! 
> Compression on vocals? No wayyyy!! That'll make it sound squashed and 
> terrible.
>
>
> A youtube video may say don't ever! ever ever ever ever! unless you're 
> going for the Cher Believe effect, instantiate pitch correction like 
> auto-tune from Antares or Waves Tune Realtime, or Melodyne on a lead 
> vocal, and set the root key, scale, and range then just forget about 
> it, and let it process the whole shabanggo vocal track, as it'll sound 
> way way way too artificial/robotic/unnatural, call it whatever you 
> desire.
>
>
> Others may say, add effects and processing only if you need to, while 
> others say you always wanna process your stuff to get the best clarity.
>
>
> Some may say when recording vocals, try to come into your DAW by 
> shooting somewhere in the ballpark of about minus 12DBFS. Others may 
> say No, that's slightly too low, shoot more for around minus 10, not 
> 12. Still others say, under no circumstances go above minus 10, as by 
> the time you add compression if needed etc, you'll have almost no 
> headroom.
>
>
> Some say, reverb on a lead vocal is essential as long as you don't 
> drown yourself in it. Others say, don't use reverb at all, and others 
> still say, unless you need it, don't use it, and even then, be very 
> sparing.
>
>
> My point is, to tie this back in to music talk, as this list is more 
> about music not audio production per sé, what in the name of purple 
> and yellow clouds above in the sky are we doing listening to all this 
> baloni maroni! I mean, seriously?
>
>
> Audio production is so! so so so so! subjective. I mean, so! 
> subjective! Wouldn't it be better time spent in the studio making 
> music, creating things that are beautiful and sound incredible than 
> spending 18 umpzillion centuries trying to piece out every! single! 
> cotton! pickin! little nuance of the sound engineering process? I'm 
> not saying don't learn anything at all about sound production... OK? 
> Let me be very very clear. I did not say that! And, just to even 
> furter! the record of clarity here, You'll never hear me down the road 
> say we shouldn't learn basic audio production 101.
>
>
> What I am, saying though is, so many people say quote: this! is the 
> right, the only! way. Others say, no? Uh uh! Hashtag FTS! Sidenote, 
> I'll let you figure out that accronym for yourself. LOL!
>
>
> So at the end of the day, yes. There are certain things which can't be 
> neglected. Certain things which you either do or simply put, don't do 
> no matter what. Sure.
>
>
> I mean, you don't put a singer in front of a mic, have them sing ta ra 
> ra boon dié while recording them at positive 90 DBFS, then apply clip 
> gain on top of that to push them on the output up to 150! DB. OK, 
> extreme example, youzers! but it proves my point nonetheless. Point 
> being, there are certain things you don't do. Period. But really at 
> the end of the day, are there truly right or wrong answers?
>
>
> Lookat: if it sounds good to you, and you get others to listen, and 
> they too agree it sounds great, is that not what matters at the end of 
> the day? Who gives a rat's hehonkis how you got there.. It sounds 
> phenomenal not just to you, but to others as well, so who cares! If 
> you spend so much time reading, youtubing, etc you're gonna get so 
> many mixed, pun intended, opinions, you're not gonna no which way is 
> again pun intended, left from right. By the time you've bored yourself 
> to tears trying to get the right correct, quote unquote, sound, you 
> could have spent probably 80 to 90 percent of that time 
> composing/arranging and coming up with brand new ideas, which guess 
> what! You never know: could! no guarantee, but could! have been a hit 
> smash number 1 song. You say, I don't write number 1 hits Chris. Well, 
> of course you don't, if you're sitting on your derrire all day 
> plunkity chunking along at getting your mix to sound explosive.
>
>
> I say, just be yourself for God sake! If it works, go with it! So how 
> much do you all think is talk talk, vs. how much truth really is there 
> that universally all engineers can agree upon? You know? how much is 
> subjective, vs. true actual fact, like it or not.
>
>
> Heck, I made a recording the other day. Most people would say apply at 
> least a little bit of EQ, or compression. Guess what. I didn't do 
> anything. Literally, my whole channel strip on each track from pianos 
> to strings to guitar to bass/drums, vocals lead and backing, I put 
> nothing! No compression, no gain boosting, no limiter, no exciter, no 
> reverb, no delay, no chorus, no saturation, no vocal doubling, no 
> panning, no automation, no noise gate filtering, no dithering, no 
> pitch correction, literally, I mean nothin! Bare to the bone! And uess 
> what. It was probably one of the best mixes in over 15 years I've ever 
> done.
>
>
> So yeah. What're you all's thoughts?
>
>
> Chris.
>
>
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