From sarah at growingstrong.org Sat Nov 1 00:06:27 2008 From: sarah at growingstrong.org (Sarah J. Blake) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:06:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips References: Message-ID: <01c901c93bb5$b0fcd9d0$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Hi, Arielle. I like your tips. I would also add: Research skills: Minimally: students should be able to define research parameters and direct a reader who can assist them when doing library research. Ideally: students should be proficient with scanners, OCR software, and use of library databases using Internet access so that they can conduct research as independently as possible. Self-advocacy: Minimally: students should be able to describe the tools they use for doing schoolwork and request appropriate accommodations (seating near outlet if necessary, etc.) Ideally: students should be able to request accommodations and think of alternate strategies for use situations when use of their preferred methods is not possible. Sarah J. Blake http://www.growingstrong.org sjblake at growingstrong.org I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sat Nov 1 00:46:42 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:46:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare question Message-ID: <20081101004546.KXKM23307.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I don't know if you have a braille note, but you can also read them there. It has its own bookshare unpacking utility. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:39:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare question >You will also need to download Bookshare's "unpack tool." Install >it, and it will unpack Bookshare books, extracting the files, >decrypting them etc. It will ask you if you want to save a html >version of the book, answer yes, and this is the version you will >read with your screen reader and internet browser. >Dave >At 12:02 PM 10/31/2008, you wrote: >>Hey >>My subscription to bookshare is finally complete, and so i want to >>start downloading books. I downloaded the victor reader software >>that they have available on the site, but i read there that you >>could either use that or just read the books with your screen >>reader. I would personally like to read the books with jaws, but i >>do not know how to do this. Is there a separate download if you want >>to use your screen reader? >>Cindy >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% 40visi.com >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1759 - Release Date: >>10/31/2008 4:10 PM >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 02:26:49 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:26:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Teen Blog! Message-ID: Greetings All, It is my pleasure to announce a new place for teens to hang out, network, and get great information in a safe, facilitated environment-not hindered in the least by geography or time warps or unduly by parents or teachers! Thanks goes to Rosy Carranza for all her hard work and enthusiasm in getting this project dreamed and realized. Tell any teen you know! Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. Happy Connecting! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children Carrie.gilmer at gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 1 02:38:46 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure complete abolition, but a massive overhaul would be nice. So we actually get what we need on time ... -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:42 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices Methinks DSS offices should petition colleges and universities to abolish themselves (the ofices, that is). Mike #- Original Message #- From: Dezman Jackson To: Date: 2008/10/31 15:53:50 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices > > > Hello, nabsters, > The Alabama Association of Blind Students is in the process of compiling a list of guidelines or tips regarding serving blind students. Specifically, we would like information on what accommodations may or may not be appropriate and what tasks the student should be expected to handle on their own. I know that a lot of us have much experience with this type of thing so if you would be so kind please post your thoughts. Our plan is to start compiling these tips at the end of November. > > Thanks, > Dezman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 1 02:43:08 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:43:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: <010601c93b9c$0527ef50$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> <010601c93b9c$0527ef50$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Message-ID: Think of it this way, guys. If DSS offices were never created in the first place, we'd be screwed. Maybe they're a thorn in some of our sides right now, but I guarantee it was a million times harder for the generation before us who never had access to these services, and who had to rely on the profs' willingness to accommodate them. At least we have somewhere to go if we are having trouble, even if it's not fantastic. Just giving some perspective. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah J. Blake Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices Students should have the option to use or not use services. My greatest complaint about many DSS offices is that they strip power from able students by requiring them to use official reader lists and other accommodations. Professors are allowed to refuse to accommodate students with obvious disabilities who have not registered with the DSS office. I understand that all students do not have the same degree of self-advocacy ability and in fact that some students come to college with multiple disabilities that can make their needs very challenging. However, the DSS offices need to make it possible for these students to obtain the assistance they need without forcing the assistance on people who prefer to do things in other ways. Sarah J. Blake http://www.growingstrong.org sjblake at growingstrong.org I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jeff.young8806 at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 02:43:34 2008 From: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com (Jeff) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:43:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips References: Message-ID: <01b401c93bcb$a6d05200$b119020a@Hyrum65> Arielle, I like it. I know this isn't part of the list, but may I suggest attending a NFB training center before beginning college. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips > Hi Joe and all, > > Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and > their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students > should master before starting college, I think we may want to include > some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site > describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in > college and the goals that high school students should be held to in > their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" > and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high > school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is > just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections > from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top > ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. > > Braille: > Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in > hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to > read the notes back later to use for studying. > Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to > read a speech aloud in a class presentation. > > Computers: > Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) > with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. > Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), > PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on > their own whenever possible. > > Travel: > Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school > campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving > class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes > between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public > transportation systems in their hometown. > Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to > orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus > they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be > able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. > > Home Management/Daily Living: > Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for > themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for > groceries etc.) > Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course > meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence > spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming > to visit! > > OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen > (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! > > What does everyone think? > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeff.young8806%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 1 02:45:58 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:45:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think McCain's running mate has a daughter with down's syndrome, so one would hope she's not completely against disability rights. Happy voting guys. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to happen. Beth On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Just received this press release, and am providing it for your information, > as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. > > > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > > ADAWatch.org > National Coalition for Disability Rights > 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 > Washington, DC 20006 > 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org > > > NEWS RELEASE > > October 31, 2008 > > > > Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at McCain-Palin > Rally > > > > Contacts: > > Jim Ward, Founder and President > > 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org > > > > Marcie Roth, Executive Director > > 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org > > > > (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) pushed > back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal rights > of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign > representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential candidate > Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, > Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating > that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." > > > > "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for people > with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with > disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability > legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges > who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans > with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. > > > > NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' > "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court include > Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability > organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully > weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he has > recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental > disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). > > > > Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin > campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts of > equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." > > > > Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support > services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated > employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are > based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. We > are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH > DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything but > equal members of our communities." > > > The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit that > does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, > state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations > united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults with > physical and mental disabilities. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 1 02:48:06 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:48:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Couldn't have said it better, Arielle. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips Hi Joe and all, Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students should master before starting college, I think we may want to include some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in college and the goals that high school students should be held to in their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. Braille: Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to read the notes back later to use for studying. Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to read a speech aloud in a class presentation. Computers: Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on their own whenever possible. Travel: Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public transportation systems in their hometown. Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. Home Management/Daily Living: Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for groceries etc.) Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming to visit! OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! What does everyone think? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 06:27:08 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 01:27:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips References: Message-ID: <006a01c93bea$df570d20$88d8fe45@Dezman> Arielle, This is good. I would go futher to say that students should absolutely be able to write in hardcopy braille preferrably with slate and stylus. So many times I've known students who've had electronic equipment breakdown on them and become nonfunctional as far as taking notes because of poor or nonexistent braille skills. I'll admit that my slate and stylus skills are not great because I grew up mostly being taught on a perkins brailler. However, I could definitely get by with reliable notes if I had to. Just my two cents. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips > Hi Joe and all, > > Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and > their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students > should master before starting college, I think we may want to include > some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site > describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in > college and the goals that high school students should be held to in > their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" > and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high > school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is > just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections > from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top > ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. > > Braille: > Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in > hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to > read the notes back later to use for studying. > Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to > read a speech aloud in a class presentation. > > Computers: > Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) > with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. > Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), > PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on > their own whenever possible. > > Travel: > Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school > campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving > class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes > between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public > transportation systems in their hometown. > Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to > orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus > they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be > able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. > > Home Management/Daily Living: > Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for > themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for > groceries etc.) > Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course > meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence > spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming > to visit! > > OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen > (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! > > What does everyone think? > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Nov 1 11:02:44 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 06:02:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> <010601c93b9c$0527ef50$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Message-ID: A different prospective -- those of us who went before you did make it without DSS offices, and you could to. It would be different, but you would find a way. You have more complexity then we did in the 70'ws and before, and you have more options too. David Andrews At 09:43 PM 10/31/2008, you wrote: >Think of it this way, guys. If DSS offices were never created in the first >place, we'd be screwed. Maybe they're a thorn in some of our sides right >now, but I guarantee it was a million times harder for the generation before >us who never had access to these services, and who had to rely on the profs' >willingness to accommodate them. At least we have somewhere to go if we are >having trouble, even if it's not fantastic. Just giving some perspective. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Sarah J. Blake >Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:03 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices > >Students should have the option to use or not use services. My greatest >complaint about many DSS offices is that they strip power from able students > >by requiring them to use official reader lists and other accommodations. >Professors are allowed to refuse to accommodate students with obvious >disabilities who have not registered with the DSS office. > >I understand that all students do not have the same degree of self-advocacy >ability and in fact that some students come to college with multiple >disabilities that can make their needs very challenging. However, the DSS >offices need to make it possible for these students to obtain the assistance > >they need without forcing the assistance on people who prefer to do things >in other ways. > >Sarah J. Blake >http://www.growingstrong.org >sjblake at growingstrong.org > > >I'm protected by SpamBrave >http://www.spambrave.com/ > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >ronto.ca > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1759 - Release Date: >10/31/2008 4:10 PM From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 13:12:19 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 09:12:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy In-Reply-To: References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com> That's what we would hope because Down's Syndrome is worse than blindness because to me, it's an intellectual hold on your mind. You can't go any further than a certain point, and then there are the physical things you can't do. I know several people with Down's who have been lucky enough to function on thir own or have been lucky enough to be highly intelligent, but I don't see too many Down's people given credit for what they can or can't do. I don't know if Palin's Down's child is functional on her own. Beth On 10/31/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I think McCain's running mate has a daughter with down's syndrome, so one > would hope she's not completely against disability rights. Happy voting > guys. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican > disability policy > > Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? > And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way > they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, > but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to > happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to > happen. > Beth > > On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your > information, >> as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >> >> >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >> ADAWatch.org >> National Coalition for Disability Rights >> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >> Washington, DC 20006 >> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >> >> >> NEWS RELEASE >> >> October 31, 2008 >> >> >> >> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at > McCain-Palin >> Rally >> >> >> >> Contacts: >> >> Jim Ward, Founder and President >> >> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >> >> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) > pushed >> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal > rights >> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential > candidate >> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >> >> >> >> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for people >> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >> >> >> >> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court include >> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he > has >> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts > of >> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. > We >> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything but >> equal members of our communities." >> >> >> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit > that >> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults with >> physical and mental disabilities. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 13:39:36 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 08:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <490c5c1c.1e2a400a.12d6.fffff4f4@mx.google.com> Arielle, These are great, and I really like the format and getting them thinking this is what minimally I should be able to do. Some of these to get minimally they need to be thinking about it way before that senior year. The only thing I would suggest is to maybe raise the bar some, some of the minimally and ideally, compare them to a sighted student who is graduating from high school. I think the minimal on the travel and advocacy and independent finding multiple strategies for getting things done expectations could be raised. You are really onto something with the format-I also liked the topics of Sarah's additions. You guys/gals are awesome! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips Hi Joe and all, Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students should master before starting college, I think we may want to include some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in college and the goals that high school students should be held to in their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. Braille: Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to read the notes back later to use for studying. Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to read a speech aloud in a class presentation. Computers: Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on their own whenever possible. Travel: Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public transportation systems in their hometown. Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. Home Management/Daily Living: Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for groceries etc.) Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming to visit! OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! What does everyone think? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 14:13:52 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:13:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips In-Reply-To: <490c5c1c.1e2a400a.12d6.fffff4f4@mx.google.com> References: <490c5c1c.1e2a400a.12d6.fffff4f4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811010713k706f42d4pcfe26bbc29d7bbb4@mail.gmail.com> I second that one. Boy did I need those on my IEP's in high school. Beth On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > Arielle, > These are great, and I really like the format and getting them thinking this > is what minimally I should be able to do. Some of these to get minimally > they need to be thinking about it way before that senior year. The only > thing I would suggest is to maybe raise the bar some, some of the minimally > and ideally, compare them to a sighted student who is graduating from high > school. I think the minimal on the travel and advocacy and independent > finding multiple strategies for getting things done expectations could be > raised. You are really onto something with the format-I also liked the > topics of Sarah's additions. > > You guys/gals are awesome! > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips > > Hi Joe and all, > > Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and > their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students > should master before starting college, I think we may want to include > some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site > describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in > college and the goals that high school students should be held to in > their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" > and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high > school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is > just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections > from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top > ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. > > Braille: > Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in > hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to > read the notes back later to use for studying. > Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to > read a speech aloud in a class presentation. > > Computers: > Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) > with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. > Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), > PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on > their own whenever possible. > > Travel: > Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school > campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving > class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes > between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public > transportation systems in their hometown. > Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to > orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus > they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be > able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. > > Home Management/Daily Living: > Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for > themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for > groceries etc.) > Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course > meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence > spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming > to visit! > > OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen > (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! > > What does everyone think? > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 1 14:51:44 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:51:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips References: Message-ID: <004601c93c31$5c711a30$0201a8c0@Serene> Hi Arielle Maybe, my college wasn't typical because it was a rather small campus, but I think 2 of the "minimally" ideas should be "ideal" or not in there at all. Home management, I didn't have to cook at all, unless, you're counting heating up food in the microwave, which I highly doubt. Most of my sighted friends went to the dining hall, as far as I knew. Two friends of mine who had "dorm food" from their parents hated the dining hall food and their parents, and later, boyfriends, spoiled them rotten! lol I didn't have to do any shopping on casmpus, either. Mom brought me food I wanted, most of which, was really snacks. The only real food was coffee flavored yogurt, nuts, and a special bread I doubt I would've found at the supermarket near my college. As far as cane travel, I didn't have any familiarity with public transportation, but didn't have to use it independently at all in college. The only time I ever used it was when I went on school-sponsored trips to New York City with my friends. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:13 PM Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips > Hi Joe and all, > > Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and > their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students > should master before starting college, I think we may want to include > some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site > describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in > college and the goals that high school students should be held to in > their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" > and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high > school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is > just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections > from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top > ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. > > Braille: > Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in > hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to > read the notes back later to use for studying. > Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to > read a speech aloud in a class presentation. > > Computers: > Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) > with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. > Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), > PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on > their own whenever possible. > > Travel: > Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school > campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving > class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes > between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public > transportation systems in their hometown. > Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to > orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus > they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be > able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. > > Home Management/Daily Living: > Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for > themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for > groceries etc.) > Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course > meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence > spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming > to visit! > > OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen > (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! > > What does everyone think? > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 1 15:34:34 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:34:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Open Book question Message-ID: What is the difference between a text view and a tree view. I was navigating the Open Book menus and the help topics and found the tree view and the text view. Thank you for the explanations to every one. Albert _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 18:13:06 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:13:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative Message-ID: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> Hello All, The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my blind son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated in 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone graduating today in 2008-09. I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in the clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to use the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew how to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I could make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle school also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I knew how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded badly on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for myself being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to survive on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just cashed my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any technology because there wasn't any-smile. Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and across country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times on his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was 10 (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience in our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training over the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for any kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely he will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly from the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill level or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and unfamiliar travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, on the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who knows where they are going and how to get there and back. I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a lot of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a few burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman or sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for the day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of missing buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times total) desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day or printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. He is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and time management and organizational and decision making and emergency and advocacy skill as I had-in many cases more. He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him well. He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the failure of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since eighth grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as fast a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, but he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can only help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors or AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and societal etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied volunteer work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. Pep and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra curricular when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own kids than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would be uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than he has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all the pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for the first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed for adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going off to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk then too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that is what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask on your website for high school students to demand really normal and high expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People are more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. Best, Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 18:14:00 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:14:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dezman, I think DSS offices can be effective if they're utilized correctly. The way I see it, if the funds are allocated, we may as well put them to work. At Catholic University my classes are taught off campus. I found registering with the office to be more trouble than it was worth, but my professors have not made it a requirement to deal with them. I guess if I could add one tip, it would be to make registration voluntary. I think the DSS office should know the number of students with disabilities for statistics purposes, but the students who need the assistance will be the ones who independently seek them out. Ideally, such an approach would relieve the pressure of helping so many students and better position the office to help those who truly need the resources. Anyway, just my thoughts. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:44 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices Hello, nabsters, The Alabama Association of Blind Students is in the process of compiling a list of guidelines or tips regarding serving blind students. Specifically, we would like information on what accommodations may or may not be appropriate and what tasks the student should be expected to handle on their own. I know that a lot of us have much experience with this type of thing so if you would be so kind please post your thoughts. Our plan is to start compiling these tips at the end of November. Thanks, Dezman _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat Nov 1 18:16:03 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out Message-ID: <286114.21659.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone,   Let me apologize in advance for how long this turned out!  I thought as I wrote and so you're getting my stream of consciousness!  Thanks!   I would like to hear from anyone, either on list or off of it, who has taken the GRE...preferably if your math skills aren't great.  I am looking around at some other graduate schools after deciding that linguistics may not be the best master's, based on a class that I'm taking this semester having to do with the historical development of English.  Most graduate schools either requrie the GRE or the MAT, with the majority prefering the GRE.  I truly do not believe that I have the skills to pass the GRE because of its math section--and although part of it may have to do with vision, a lot of it is just genetic--I simply am not good at math (neither is my brother who is fully sighted).  Thoughts, though, on succeeding with it, if I have to take it, are appreciated.   I would also welcoem any strategies for finding schools that accept the MAT.  Oh and for a master's degree, I still want to be a college professor but am looking aroun at my options--I have actually thought about doing TEFL/TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) overseas...I'm really a bit intimidated.  I know what I want; I think I would really like the idea of teaching overseas for a year or two and being a professor (in whatever order those happen to arrive); I've even thought about going for a master's overseas--is that a crazy idea?   I am at this point where I am very confused and don't feel like I have a whole lot of time.  I took a career assessment, and as I suspected, it said that my responses didn't show a clear pattern, meaning I have a lot of options and basically could do anything.   So this post isn't really about the GRE, or graduate school, or teaching, or any of it.  I suppose it's more about me trying to make sense out of the confusion; I'm hoping for the things I want, wishing desperately for them to be possible, but still having the doubt that I could be comfortable going overseas and teaching (how could I, given that every time I move I have tention in my body from the cane)?  I say it is from the cane, because while walking down the hall, when no one else was around, I stopped using the cane and just held it vertical, and noticed that my tention immediately eased.  I was much more comfortable and I had no anxiety at all.  The constant noise of the cane on the concrete/tapping against doors/etc grates on me, and I am just now figuring this out.  Has anyone else experienced this?   Thanks, if you've made it this far.  I didn't intend for this to turn into a book.   Thanks,   Harry Hogue   From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 18:45:49 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:45:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned Message-ID: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in employment readiness. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 1 17:09:02 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:09:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local><4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> To be devil's advocate for a minute, I think, although Palin has a kid with Down's Syndrome, she might be against equal rights for people with disabilities cause she thinks her daughter might never get far enough in life to use many equal rights, such as the right to vote. Equal rights might not even be on her radar screen cause her kid probably isn't gonna get that far in life. I'm not supporting McCain-Palin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy > That's what we would hope because Down's Syndrome is worse than > blindness because to me, it's an intellectual hold on your mind. You > can't go any further than a certain point, and then there are the > physical things you can't do. I know several people with Down's who > have been lucky enough to function on thir own or have been lucky > enough to be highly intelligent, but I don't see too many Down's > people given credit for what they can or can't do. I don't know if > Palin's Down's child is functional on her own. > Beth > > On 10/31/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I think McCain's running mate has a daughter with down's syndrome, so one >> would hope she's not completely against disability rights. Happy voting >> guys. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican >> disability policy >> >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >> information, >>> as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint >>> judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in >>> concepts >> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs >>> are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice >>> organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 19:30:20 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:30:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811011230g5dbcec88i81ddee02693f6387@mail.gmail.com> Interesting. I second that. Beth On 11/1/08, Joe Orozco wrote: > Dezman, > > I think DSS offices can be effective if they're utilized correctly. The way > I see it, if the funds are allocated, we may as well put them to work. At > Catholic University my classes are taught off campus. I found registering > with the office to be more trouble than it was worth, but my professors have > not made it a requirement to deal with them. I guess if I could add one > tip, it would be to make registration voluntary. I think the DSS office > should know the number of students with disabilities for statistics > purposes, but the students who need the assistance will be the ones who > independently seek them out. Ideally, such an approach would relieve the > pressure of helping so many students and better position the office to help > those who truly need the resources. Anyway, just my thoughts. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:44 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices > > Hello, nabsters, > The Alabama Association of Blind Students is in the process of compiling a > list of guidelines or tips regarding serving blind students. Specifically, > we would like information on what accommodations may or may not be > appropriate and what tasks the student should be expected to handle on their > own. I know that a lot of us have much experience with this type of thing so > if you would be so kind please post your thoughts. Our plan is to start > compiling these tips at the end of November. > > Thanks, > Dezman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 19:32:59 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:32:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out In-Reply-To: <286114.21659.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <286114.21659.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811011232g6abf72b5w8733bafa1d51e343@mail.gmail.com> What you're feeling is absolutely normal. Unlike you, however, I want to be a choral director, but like you, I'm a bit confused about where to teach, but I know what I want to teach. Beth On 11/1/08, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Let me apologize in advance for how long this turned out! I thought as I > wrote and so you're getting my stream of consciousness! Thanks! > > I would like to hear from anyone, either on list or off of it, who has taken > the GRE...preferably if your math skills aren't great. I am looking around > at some other graduate schools after deciding that linguistics may not be > the best master's, based on a class that I'm taking this semester having to > do with the historical development of English. Most graduate schools either > requrie the GRE or the MAT, with the majority prefering the GRE. I truly do > not believe that I have the skills to pass the GRE because of its math > section--and although part of it may have to do with vision, a lot of it is > just genetic--I simply am not good at math (neither is my brother who is > fully sighted). Thoughts, though, on succeeding with it, if I have to take > it, are appreciated. > > I would also welcoem any strategies for finding schools that accept the > MAT. Oh and for a master's degree, I still want to be a college professor > but am looking aroun at my options--I have actually thought about doing > TEFL/TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) overseas...I'm > really a bit intimidated. I know what I want; I think I would really like > the idea of teaching overseas for a year or two and being a professor (in > whatever order those happen to arrive); I've even thought about going for a > master's overseas--is that a crazy idea? > > I am at this point where I am very confused and don't feel like I have a > whole lot of time. I took a career assessment, and as I suspected, it said > that my responses didn't show a clear pattern, meaning I have a lot of > options and basically could do anything. > > So this post isn't really about the GRE, or graduate school, or teaching, or > any of it. I suppose it's more about me trying to make sense out of the > confusion; I'm hoping for the things I want, wishing desperately for them to > be possible, but still having the doubt that I could be comfortable going > overseas and teaching (how could I, given that every time I move I have > tention in my body from the cane)? I say it is from the cane, because while > walking down the hall, when no one else was around, I stopped using the cane > and just held it vertical, and noticed that my tention immediately eased. I > was much more comfortable and I had no anxiety at all. The constant noise > of the cane on the concrete/tapping against doors/etc grates on me, and I am > just now figuring this out. Has anyone else experienced this? > > Thanks, if you've made it this far. I didn't intend for this to turn into a > book. > > Thanks, > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 19:35:14 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:35:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811011235n44b09e48x324bcc41d576a0f7@mail.gmail.com> Wat about how to deal with lhealth insurance stuff? Not just use health care stuff like doctors and such, but how to deal with co-pay and other isnurance related issues. Beth On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- > > You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, > take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to > seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. > > Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how > many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a > fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay > that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in > employment readiness. > > > > > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 19:44:13 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:44:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> References: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811011244n8c2fbe8v9b579b36428556b5@mail.gmail.com> I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. Beth On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > Hello All, > > The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking > and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my blind > son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative > and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated in > 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone > graduating today in 2008-09. > > > > I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been > driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby > states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all > over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th > grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was > five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th > grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for > directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I > knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in the > clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent > reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to use > the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew how > to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I could > make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle school > also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I knew > how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I > thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded badly > on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for myself > being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to survive > on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only > thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just cashed > my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any > technology because there wasn't any-smile. > > > > Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and across > country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times on > his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was 10 > (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience in > our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training over > the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for any > kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand > someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely he > will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly from > the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill level > or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and unfamiliar > travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in > those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, on > the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several > different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out > with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who > knows where they are going and how to get there and back. > > I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be > ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. > > > > Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a lot > of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a few > burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the > basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman or > sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, > including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It > means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for the > day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of missing > buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times total) > desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and > anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day or > printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. He > is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and time > management and organizational and decision making and emergency and advocacy > skill as I had-in many cases more. > > > > He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him well. > He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the failure > of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in > enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since eighth > grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all > computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as fast > a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, but > he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has > much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can only > help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he > could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and > find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real > job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors or > AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and societal > etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills > rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three > weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied volunteer > work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. Pep > and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I > maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra curricular > when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished > college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of > getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is > passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing > home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own kids > than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? > > > > So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and > independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better > informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had > experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would be > uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than he > has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all the > pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for the > first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or > blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed for > adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" > should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going off > to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted > kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk then > too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that is > what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public > again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you > noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask on > your website for high school students to demand really normal and high > expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People are > more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. > > > > Best, > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From liz.bottner at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 20:09:58 2008 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 16:09:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy In-Reply-To: <008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local><4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com> <008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> Palin's kid is a son. I just wanted to point that out for clarification's sake. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 21:28:27 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 17:28:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips References: <490c5c1c.1e2a400a.12d6.fffff4f4@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811010713k706f42d4pcfe26bbc29d7bbb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e501c93c68$c8597120$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I would also suggest that they know how to use jaws and kerswale. I didn't know how to use it in high school. I would have liked to have bin pushed to use it but how was I going to learn how to use something if know one knew how to use it them selves? Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips >I second that one. Boy did I need those on my IEP's in high school. > Beth > > On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> Arielle, >> These are great, and I really like the format and getting them thinking >> this >> is what minimally I should be able to do. Some of these to get minimally >> they need to be thinking about it way before that senior year. The only >> thing I would suggest is to maybe raise the bar some, some of the >> minimally >> and ideally, compare them to a sighted student who is graduating from >> high >> school. I think the minimal on the travel and advocacy and independent >> finding multiple strategies for getting things done expectations could be >> raised. You are really onto something with the format-I also liked the >> topics of Sarah's additions. >> >> You guys/gals are awesome! >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] College Readiness Tips >> >> Hi Joe and all, >> >> Since a lot of the questions that blind high school students (and >> their parents and teachers) ask concern the skills that students >> should master before starting college, I think we may want to include >> some guidelines in the high school tips part of the Web site >> describing what blindness skills are most essential for success in >> college and the goals that high school students should be held to in >> their blindness training. Here are my suggestions for both "minimal" >> and "ideal" levels in each blindness skill area that I think high >> school students should strive for when preparing for college. This is >> just my opinion, though, so I welcome contributions or corrections >> from any of you. We can either try to incorporate this into the top >> ten list or set up a separate page dealing with this issue. >> >> Braille: >> Minimally, students should be able to take notes reliably either in >> hard-copy (paper) Braille or using a Braille notetaker, and be able to >> read the notes back later to use for studying. >> Ideally: Students should be proficient enough in Braille to be able to >> read a speech aloud in a class presentation. >> >> Computers: >> Minimally: Students should be able to use JAWS (or its equivalent) >> with basic word-processing, email and Internet programs. >> Ideally: Students should be able to use spreadsheet (i.e. Excel), >> PowerPoint programs (or their equivalents) and learn new programs on >> their own whenever possible. >> >> Travel: >> Minimally: Students should be able to get around their high school >> campus independently and efficiently (without being late, leaving >> class early, etc.) They should also be able to learn basic routes >> between their college classrooms and have some familiarity with public >> transportation systems in their hometown. >> Ideally: Students should be able to use appropriate techniques to >> orient themselves to a new campus or find new buildings on a campus >> they already know, as well as learn the layout of a new city and be >> able to travel to new places in the city in an efficient manner. >> >> Home Management/Daily Living: >> Minimally: Students should be able to prepare a simple meal for >> themselves, do their own laundry, and shop with customer service (for >> groceries etc.) >> Ideally: Students should be able to prepare a romantic five-course >> meal for their significant other, and magically make their residence >> spotless the day after a party, at least when Mom and Dad are coming >> to visit! >> >> OK, so the last one is a bit of a stretch for many college freshmen >> (blind and sighted alike), but you get the idea! >> >> What does everyone think? >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 22:02:55 2008 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 17:02:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811011230g5dbcec88i81ddee02693f6387@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40E74D52BAC94740A467FD8A7813DAFB@homeuser> Was just curious if anyone on this list will be there? I will be, so thought it might be interesting to meet anyone from this list who might be there. >From David From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 22:09:05 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:09:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy In-Reply-To: <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com> <008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811011509u20492db3t83331cec404c8534@mail.gmail.com> Okay. I know a lady with Down's who has a good IQ that's high enough to vot. I think Palin really needs to think about what her son is going through before she even thinks about tearing down the equal rights of disabled folks. Beth On 11/1/08, Liz Bottner wrote: > Palin's kid is a son. I just wanted to point that out for clarification's > sake. > > Liz > > email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 1 22:50:12 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:50:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local><4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com><008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004101c93c74$3338c080$0201a8c0@Serene> Sorry, I guess I was thinking daughter cause of her daughter who's pregnant. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy > Palin's kid is a son. I just wanted to point that out for clarification's > sake. > > Liz > > email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 23:01:41 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:01:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative References: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01b701c93c75$cee27e80$88d8fe45@Dezman> Thanks, Carrie, That was a wonderful testamony of a young man who will be truly empowered to survive in the real world. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Gilmer" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:13 PM Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > Hello All, > > The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking > and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my > blind > son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative > and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated > in > 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone > graduating today in 2008-09. > > > > I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been > driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby > states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all > over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th > grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was > five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th > grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for > directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I > knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in the > clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent > reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to > use > the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew how > to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I > could > make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle school > also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I knew > how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I > thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded > badly > on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for myself > being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to > survive > on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only > thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just cashed > my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any > technology because there wasn't any-smile. > > > > Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and across > country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times > on > his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was > 10 > (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience in > our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training > over > the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for > any > kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand > someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely > he > will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly > from > the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill > level > or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and > unfamiliar > travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in > those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, on > the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several > different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out > with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who > knows where they are going and how to get there and back. > > I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be > ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. > > > > Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a lot > of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a > few > burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the > basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman > or > sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, > including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It > means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for > the > day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of > missing > buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times total) > desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and > anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day > or > printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. > He > is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and time > management and organizational and decision making and emergency and > advocacy > skill as I had-in many cases more. > > > > He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him > well. > He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the failure > of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in > enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since > eighth > grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all > computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as > fast > a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, but > he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has > much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can only > help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he > could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and > find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real > job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors > or > AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and societal > etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills > rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three > weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied > volunteer > work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. > Pep > and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I > maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra curricular > when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished > college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of > getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is > passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing > home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own > kids > than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? > > > > So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and > independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better > informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had > experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would be > uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than he > has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all > the > pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for > the > first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or > blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed > for > adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" > should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going > off > to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted > kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk > then > too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that > is > what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public > again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you > noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask on > your website for high school students to demand really normal and high > expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People > are > more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. > > > > Best, > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 02:34:37 2008 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:34:37 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend Message-ID: <110220080234.5799.490D11BD000880DA000016A72205886172010D0E9C0497030E@comcast.net> hello david, i hope that there are some people here in the land of nabs are there at the nfb of wisconsin convention next weekend. i don't know of anyone at all here on the list who regually post here. but, if any of you guys who are from wisconsin, and i know who you are... please give a shout out! anyway, my dear i hope that you can meet up with them next weekend. take care and i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy -------------- Original message -------------- From: "David Dunphy" > Was just curious if anyone on this list will be there? I will be, so thought > it might be interesting to meet anyone from this list who might be there. > >From David > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 2 03:40:55 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 23:40:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy In-Reply-To: <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local><4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811010612k978db3an1c1c18900e744c6e@mail.gmail.com> <008501c93c44$8a2da660$0201a8c0@Serene> <490cb783.8602be0a.5106.ffffdd3b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry! Thank you for the clarification. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:10 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republican disability policy Palin's kid is a son. I just wanted to point that out for clarification's sake. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 2 03:43:13 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 23:43:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811011244n8c2fbe8v9b579b36428556b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811011244n8c2fbe8v9b579b36428556b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything we'll do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad topic. What do you guys think? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. Beth On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > Hello All, > > The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking > and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my blind > son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative > and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated in > 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone > graduating today in 2008-09. > > > > I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been > driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby > states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all > over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th > grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was > five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th > grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for > directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I > knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in the > clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent > reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to use > the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew how > to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I could > make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle school > also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I knew > how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I > thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded badly > on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for myself > being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to survive > on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only > thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just cashed > my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any > technology because there wasn't any-smile. > > > > Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and across > country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times on > his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was 10 > (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience in > our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training over > the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for any > kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand > someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely he > will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly from > the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill level > or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and unfamiliar > travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in > those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, on > the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several > different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out > with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who > knows where they are going and how to get there and back. > > I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be > ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. > > > > Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a lot > of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a few > burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the > basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman or > sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, > including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It > means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for the > day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of missing > buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times total) > desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and > anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day or > printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. He > is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and time > management and organizational and decision making and emergency and advocacy > skill as I had-in many cases more. > > > > He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him well. > He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the failure > of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in > enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since eighth > grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all > computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as fast > a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, but > he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has > much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can only > help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he > could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and > find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real > job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors or > AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and societal > etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills > rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three > weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied volunteer > work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. Pep > and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I > maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra curricular > when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished > college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of > getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is > passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing > home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own kids > than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? > > > > So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and > independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better > informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had > experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would be > uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than he > has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all the > pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for the > first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or > blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed for > adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" > should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going off > to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted > kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk then > too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that is > what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public > again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you > noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask on > your website for high school students to demand really normal and high > expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People are > more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. > > > > Best, > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From bwbddl at yahoo.com Sun Nov 2 03:45:55 2008 From: bwbddl at yahoo.com (Debby B) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:45:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFBF-Parents and Braille for the Holidays! Message-ID: bwbddl at yahoo.com www.nfbflorida.org/parents As you prepare for gift giving this holiday season, think BRAILLE! Please feel free to share this email with family, friends, and co-workers. Place your orders quickly to ensure delivery for the holidays! Back by popular demand, we are again offering our personalized Braille blankets.Check out www.nfbflorida.org/parents for more information. In addition, NFBF-Parents is excited to team up with Braille Tees to bring you our newest fundraiser. Every purchase will benefit the NFBF-Parents of Blind Children division. More information follows my signature. Thanks for your support! Debby bwbddl at yahoo.com BRAILLE TEES HOLIDAY FUNDRAISER 2008 to benefit THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND FLORIDA PARENTS OF BLIND CHILDREN Braille Tees is proud to announce its 2008 Holiday Fundraiser to benefit NFB Florida Parents of Blind Children (NFBF-Parents). Braille Tees make unique gifts that can’t be found anywhere else. Each shirt is printed in uncontracted Braille with the translation below. All garments are of the highest quality and guaranteed to provide many years of comfort and durability. They are washing machine friendly, and will never lose their shape or fade. (It is suggested that you hang to dry.) Each style has different options to choose from, and please indicate whether you’d like the design on the front or back of your garment. Shipping and handling fees are $3.50 per item, and all orders must be received by Friday, November 14, 2008 to ensure delivery by early December. Color swatches available by request. Custom and specialty items also available. See below or call for details. The following nine sayings are available: “Braille is Beautiful!” The Braille Alphabet “goingreen” (Flower shaped Braille!) “perfect in every way” “Love Is Blind” (Heart shaped Braille!) “explore - dream - discover” “plays well with others” “Blind Faith” “Heaven on Earth” (Star shaped Braille!) OPTIONS: Style: Standard/Unisex Tees for men and women 6.1 oz, 100% Cotton Size: S, M, L, XL, 2X, 3X Cost: S-XL ($20), 2X ($22), 3X ($24) Colors: S-2X - Black, Cardinal Red, Dark Grey (Charcoal), Gold, Iris, Dark Pink (Heliconia), Maroon, Military Green, Orange, Dark Purple, Royal, Rust (Texas Orange), Paprika, Cherry Red, Lime, Tan 3X - Black, Cardinal Red, Dark Grey (Charcoal), Gold, Stone Blue, Maroon, Light Green (Kiwi), Dark Purple, Royal, Rust (Texas Orange), Cherry Red, Lime, Kelly Green, Forest Green OPTIONS: Style: Women’s Tees (smaller cut than Unisex) 6.1 oz, 100% Cotton Size: XS, S, M, L, XL, 2X Cost: XS-XL ($20), 2X ($22) Colors: Yellow Haze, Lime, Light Pink, Black, Royal, Iris, Red, Light Blue, Violet, Sport Grey, Dark Chocolate, Pistachio, Sky, Orchid, Salmon OPTIONS: Style: Youth Tees 6.1 oz, 100% Cotton Size: YXS - YXL Cost: $20 Colors: Azalea, Black, Cardinal Red, Dark Chocolate, Gold, Forest Green, Dark Pink (Heliconia), Iris, Jade Dome, Lime, Maroon, Orange, Prairie Dust, Dark Purple, Red, Royal, Sapphire, Tangerine, Violet, Cherry Red, Rust (Texas Orange) OPTIONS: Style: Crewneck Sweatshirts 7.75 oz Heavy Blend, 50/50 Fleece Size: S, M, L, XL, 2X, 3X Cost: S-XL ($28), 2X ($30), 3X ($32) Colors: S-2X - Black, Red, Royal, Dark Purple, Orange, Maroon, Forest Green, Gold, Violet, Tan, Cherry Red, Paprika, Indigo Blue 3X - Black, Navy, Red, Sport Grey Custom Orders: $35 Production Fee ($50 value). Includes silkscreen, artwork and set-up. Six (6) shirt minimum order. Production fee will be waived on all orders of 12 shirts or more. Shirt prices as indicated above. Call with questions or to place an order. ORDER FORM: Saying Style Size Color Front/Back Price Subtotal Please add $3.50 per item for shipping and handling Total Amount Enclosed Name of organization fundraiser is associated with: NFBF-Parents of Blind Children Method of Payment: _____ Check or Money Order made payable to “Braille Tees” _____ Visa _____ MasterCard _____Discover _____Amex Acct. No._____________________________Exp. Date:_________ ______________________________________________________ (Signature if paying by credit card) ORDERED BY: Name:____________________________________________ Address:__________________________________________ City:_____________________________________________ State:__________________________ Zip:_______________ Phone:( )_____________________________________ Email:____________________________________________ Please include your phone number and email in case we have questions about your order. Send your check or money order to Braille Tees, P.O. Box 1044, Union City, Connecticut 06770. Feel free to call with questions, or to order by phone toll free (877) 410-9866. Call us if you need items shipped to multiple addresses, or if you would like to order from our existing line at www.BrailleTees.com. Just a reminder that all orders must be received by Friday, November 14, 2008 to ensure delivery in time for the holidays. Thank you for your order and for supporting FloridaParents of Blind Children! NFB Changing What It Means To Be Blind Comments and suggestions always welcome! Braille Tees Kara Euvino, Owner (203) 592-9952 Cell (877) 410-9866 Toll Free avid.reader at BrailleTees.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 13:12:02 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 08:12:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: References: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811011244n8c2fbe8v9b579b36428556b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811020512m16e95f4cm6258da82927fe2ff@mail.gmail.com> I think so. I think that there are certain things that blind tudents should have socially as far as good social skills. For one, they need to be able to do god formal etiquette. I took an etiquette class at my Catholic school and we learned what to do at socialgatherings and stuff. Then, we need to know what's appropriate and not appropriate to talk about in public, and the ... there's more that I can't think of right now. Beth On 11/1/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything we'll > do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special > socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad topic. > What do you guys think? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I > don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think > I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and > burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the > ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it > than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I > never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court > because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. > (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be > more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My > ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just > weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn > that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal > social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o > a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody > figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. > Beth > > On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking >> and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my > blind >> son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative >> and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated > in >> 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone >> graduating today in 2008-09. >> >> >> >> I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been >> driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby >> states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all >> over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th >> grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was >> five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th >> grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for >> directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I >> knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in the >> clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent >> reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to > use >> the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew how >> to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I > could >> make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle school >> also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I knew >> how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I >> thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded > badly >> on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for myself >> being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to > survive >> on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only >> thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just cashed >> my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any >> technology because there wasn't any-smile. >> >> >> >> Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and across >> country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times > on >> his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was > 10 >> (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience in >> our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training > over >> the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for > any >> kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand >> someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely > he >> will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly > from >> the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill > level >> or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and > unfamiliar >> travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in >> those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, on >> the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several >> different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out >> with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who >> knows where they are going and how to get there and back. >> >> I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be >> ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. >> >> >> >> Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a lot >> of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a > few >> burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the >> basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman > or >> sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, >> including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It >> means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for > the >> day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of > missing >> buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times total) >> desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and >> anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day > or >> printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. > He >> is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and time >> management and organizational and decision making and emergency and > advocacy >> skill as I had-in many cases more. >> >> >> >> He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him > well. >> He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the failure >> of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in >> enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since > eighth >> grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all >> computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as > fast >> a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, but >> he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has >> much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can only >> help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he >> could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and >> find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real >> job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors > or >> AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and societal >> etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills >> rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three >> weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied > volunteer >> work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. > Pep >> and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I >> maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra curricular >> when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished >> college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of >> getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is >> passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing >> home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own > kids >> than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? >> >> >> >> So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and >> independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better >> informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had >> experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would be >> uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than he >> has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all > the >> pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for > the >> first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or >> blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed > for >> adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" >> should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going > off >> to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted >> kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk > then >> too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that > is >> what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public >> again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you >> noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask on >> your website for high school students to demand really normal and high >> expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People > are >> more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 14:36:12 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 08:36:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> The whole social skills and etiquette thing is such an important area that a well-known leader of ours in the area of vocational rehabilitation, Jim Omvig, has said it is the crucial fourth ingredient needed for success-or truly being capable of integrating. I have met college graduates, who have been employed in good jobs, eat with such horrible manners that one can barley stand to sit at the same table. Now they got the job because you don't have to eat in an interview, but I totally believe that it would affect things among co-workers or clients and make them lose respect for the un-mannered person if they ever went out to eat together. Another example to think of, recently I read a parent post who spoke of how wonderful it was that their child was so liked--absolutely everyone fought over helping the child. Well that child has no friends in reality, only caretakers. There is no equal and true friendship possible here. When one gets the feeling of superiority because of always needing to help another-viewing the other as equal doesn't happen. This child is being set up for a very hard time. I also know people who were lazy and not used to getting places on time or being self-organized because no one ever expected those things of them. I want to point out though that this kind of lack of social and business etiquette happens to sighted kids too. There are people who were raised with no values on these things. There are also people I have known, sighted and blind, who taught themselves and came to value etiquette despite not having been raised that way. There is no sense in discussing whether etiquette is fair or moral as a measure--it definitely is. I tend to think this way about it. Take nose picking as a fun example. I knew sighted and bind kids who picked their noses in public--or in view of others--at age ten. If so it is I say, 80% their parents fault (meaning mostly) and 20% their own fault. If they do it at age twenty five the percentage of responsibility is reversed. If they do it at age thirty, it is all on them. I agree that this covers a very very broad area. You might want to address it as social and business etiquette, using etiquette rather than skill. And I want to point out that it really has less to do with blindness, I believe, than opportunity and parents and teachers failing the child early on and the student failing to take personal responsibility as they come to adulthood. My parents didn't teach me about money as I said earlier, that and many other things I had to teach myself. Sure it made some things harder in the beginning, but now at age 49 if I am not wise with my money can I say it is my parents or teachers fault? No. I went to every prom and homecoming--it had no bearing on the outcome of my life. I am sure if we had one, studies would show that it is not a sole predictor of successful outcomes in life. I think it is very relevant for students to think of as important because of the importance of it in employment outcomes as well as adding to a socially happy time of it. Take Dr. Jernigan as an example. He was raised on a farm in Tennessee, and with manners, but the family was not highly educated or worldly, Dr. Jernigan taught himself and read extensively and found mentors to teach him, and became to have superior social graces and the capability of speaking and acting with senators, and governors, and presidents, and heads of large companies with grace and confidence. Books on etiquette abound, you can google manners, one can self teach and self improve--maybe what you can do on your web site is place the expectation there and let blind high school-ers know they have the same capability and responsibility as everyone else and it will definitely affect their life and employment capability. Well I got long thinking and winded again...don't worry I will be too busy to write anything more for awhile, smile. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything we'll do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad topic. What do you guys think? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. Beth From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 17:29:02 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:29:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> References: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811020929s37b8f3acpf4530cf5dbbefdfe@mail.gmail.com> I like all these ideas. Beth On 11/2/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > The whole social skills and etiquette thing is such an important area that a > well-known leader of ours in the area of vocational rehabilitation, Jim > Omvig, has said it is the crucial fourth ingredient needed for success-or > truly being capable of integrating. > > I have met college graduates, who have been employed in good jobs, eat with > such horrible manners that one can barley stand to sit at the same table. > Now they got the job because you don't have to eat in an interview, but I > totally believe that it would affect things among co-workers or clients and > make them lose respect for the un-mannered person if they ever went out to > eat together. Another example to think of, recently I read a parent post who > spoke of how wonderful it was that their child was so liked--absolutely > everyone fought over helping the child. Well that child has no friends in > reality, only caretakers. There is no equal and true friendship possible > here. When one gets the feeling of superiority because of always needing to > help another-viewing the other as equal doesn't happen. This child is being > set up for a very hard time. I also know people who were lazy and not used > to getting places on time or being self-organized because no one ever > expected those things of them. > > I want to point out though that this kind of lack of social and business > etiquette happens to sighted kids too. There are people who were raised with > no values on these things. There are also people I have known, sighted and > blind, who taught themselves and came to value etiquette despite not having > been raised that way. There is no sense in discussing whether etiquette is > fair or moral as a measure--it definitely is. I tend to think this way about > it. Take nose picking as a fun example. I knew sighted and bind kids who > picked their noses in public--or in view of others--at age ten. If so it is > I say, 80% their parents fault (meaning mostly) and 20% their own fault. If > they do it at age twenty five the percentage of responsibility is reversed. > If they do it at age thirty, it is all on them. > > I agree that this covers a very very broad area. You might want to address > it as social and business etiquette, using etiquette rather than skill. And > I want to point out that it really has less to do with blindness, I believe, > than opportunity and parents and teachers failing the child early on and the > student failing to take personal responsibility as they come to adulthood. > My parents didn't teach me about money as I said earlier, that and many > other things I had to teach myself. Sure it made some things harder in the > beginning, but now at age 49 if I am not wise with my money can I say it is > my parents or teachers fault? No. I went to every prom and homecoming--it > had no bearing on the outcome of my life. I am sure if we had one, studies > would show that it is not a sole predictor of successful outcomes in life. > > I think it is very relevant for students to think of as important because of > the importance of it in employment outcomes as well as adding to a socially > happy time of it. Take Dr. Jernigan as an example. He was raised on a farm > in Tennessee, and with manners, but the family was not highly educated or > worldly, Dr. Jernigan taught himself and read extensively and found mentors > to teach him, and became to have superior social graces and the capability > of speaking and acting with senators, and governors, and presidents, and > heads of large companies with grace and confidence. Books on etiquette > abound, you can google manners, one can self teach and self improve--maybe > what you can do on your web site is place the expectation there and let > blind high school-ers know they have the same capability and responsibility > as everyone else and it will definitely affect their life and employment > capability. > > Well I got long thinking and winded again...don't worry I will be too busy > to write anything more for awhile, smile. > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Jevnikar > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything we'll > do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special > socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad topic. > What do you guys think? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I > don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think > I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and > burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the > ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it > than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I > never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court > because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. > (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be > more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My > ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just > weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn > that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal > social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o > a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody > figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. > Beth > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Nov 2 16:38:24 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 11:38:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative References: <490c9c39.1b2a400a.7226.ffffc4e2@mx.google.com><4383d01d0811011244n8c2fbe8v9b579b36428556b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003b01c93d09$6d245f30$0201a8c0@Serene> Awesome! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything > we'll > do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special > socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad > topic. > What do you guys think? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I > don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think > I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and > burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the > ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it > than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I > never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court > because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. > (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be > more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My > ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just > weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn > that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal > social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o > a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody > figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. > Beth > > On 11/1/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> The discussion on college-adult-flying the coop readiness has me thinking >> and comparing my own readiness as a sighted high school graduate to my > blind >> son's, who is now in his senior HS year. I think it is a good comparative >> and I would like to share it for your consideration. Although I graduated > in >> 1977, everything I needed then is still needed, and even more for someone >> graduating today in 2008-09. >> >> >> >> I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school. I had already been >> driving for two years, going all over my town, to big cities, and nearby >> states on my own or with friends in the car. I had been riding a bike all >> over town since I was eleven. I had taken city buses since I was in 7th >> grade. The last time I had worried about street crossing was when I was >> five. I had been going to the mall and shopping alone since I was in 7th >> grade and malls were invented. I knew how to read a map and ask for >> directions or for assistance if I could not find something in a store. I >> knew how to figure 20% off. I had already worked two years at Sears in >> the >> clothing department when I graduated from high school. I was an excellent >> reader, could take all notes for myself since middle school, knew how to > use >> the library and started learning research in middle school too. I knew >> how >> to bake things like bread and cookies, and make a few simple meals. I > could >> make breakfast and lunches easily. I had been cleaning since middle >> school >> also, dusting ,vac, laundry, yard work, dishes, bathrooms, ironing. I >> knew >> how to study, and also how to respectfully argue with my teacher if I >> thought an answer marked wrong should have been correct or was worded > badly >> on the test-smile. All my peers did the same things, and except for >> myself >> being a classic under-achiever, there was little I needed to know to > survive >> on my own if I had to when I graduated from high school. About the only >> thing I had glaringly no knowledge of was money and banking. I just >> cashed >> my checks from Sears and spent them-smile. I didn't need to know any >> technology because there wasn't any-smile. >> >> >> >> Now my son will graduate this spring. He has been all over town and >> across >> country (planes, trains and automobiles-taxis, and buses) dozens of times > on >> his own already. He has not worried about crossing a street since he was > 10 >> (never got a cane or travel instruction or much alone street experience >> in >> our suburb until he was eight). He got sleep shade and travel training > over >> the summers every summer from 2000 until 2007. He knows how to ask for > any >> kind of assistance, problem solve, and read directions and understand >> someone else reading maps. He does have some usable vision, but is likely > he >> will not within the next four years-but he is able to change seamlessly > from >> the vision he has to no vision (sleepshades) without losing any skill > level >> or confidence. He actually has more independent long distance and > unfamiliar >> travel experience than some of his peers-on the other hand he has less in >> those his age who are out driving extensively traveling alone everyday, >> on >> the other hand he knows how to use public transportation (in several >> different big cities) and many of his peers do not. If he were to go out >> with peers, it is as likely that, while they may drive, he is the one who >> knows where they are going and how to get there and back. >> >> I think there enough to worry about leaving home, if anything should be >> ideal when doing so travel is at the top of my list. >> >> >> >> Cooking, and managing meal prep and time and getting groceries takes a >> lot >> of practice and use a variety of skills and decision making. I burned a > few >> burgers and things myself before I got a good feel for it. I believe the >> basics should be known whether or not you cook very much in your freshman > or >> sophomore years. Jordan has been making his own breakfast everyday, >> including eggs, since he was a freshman in high school every morning. It >> means he has long ago found out how to manage time and getting ready for > the >> day, established for himself morning routines and having failures of > missing >> buses, sleeping late,(these things only occurred a handful of times >> total) >> desiring more or less to eat given when lunch might come that day and >> anything else such as a brief going over of something for a test that day > or >> printing something off-all these things are second nature to him already. > He >> is leaving home with at least as much cooking, shopping, cleaning and >> time >> management and organizational and decision making and emergency and > advocacy >> skill as I had-in many cases more. >> >> >> >> He knows more about money and banking than I did and it will serve him > well. >> He has ordered his own textbooks for two years and experienced the >> failure >> of what happens if you forget to get with a teacher or order something in >> enough time. He has organized all his own work and study habits since > eighth >> grade and lived with and learned from the poor choices. He knows all >> computer and technology, including Excel and Power Point. He is not as > fast >> a reader as I was, he did not get Braille full time until sixth grade, >> but >> he can read a speech aloud in Braille at the typical speech speed. He has >> much more public speaking ability and experience than I did, this can >> only >> help him immensely. He can take notes, including with the slate, but he >> could use speed improvement. He knows how to research and how to hire and >> find a reader. We need to work on the firing-smile. He has not had a real >> job, it has been a choice between keeping up a 3.8 with nearly all honors > or >> AP classes. He does know how to work and understands business and >> societal >> etiquette. He also has given summers to training with blindness skills >> rather than working. He has had some small work experience-two or three >> weeks twice in NFB related things, and hundreds of hours of varied > volunteer >> work. He has also participated in much more extra curricular than I did. > Pep >> and Jazz band, student council, Spanish club, school newspaper, etc. I >> maintained a B average with average classes and was in no extra >> curricular >> when I worked a job in high school. I ended up average, never finished >> college myself, and don't make much money. He has a much better chance of >> getting a good career and good pay with job security in something he is >> passionate about- and he will never put his poor old mother in a nursing >> home, smile. Isn't that what parents want-a better start for their own > kids >> than they had? Isn't that what kids should want too? >> >> >> >> So to shorten it up-he is leaving home with the same level of skills and >> independent survival-maybe more in some cases of independence and better >> informed choice of moral and time management and money things than I had >> experience or mentorship with at the same age. I tell you what, I would >> be >> uncomfortable with him leaving home with any smidgen of less skill than >> he >> has. It all started in elementary school. In today's world and with all > the >> pressures and technologies and new things and making adult decisions for > the >> first time-those who have the most success and least stress, sighted or >> blind, are those who started independence practice in every area needed > for >> adult life from the beginning. So in a way, I think many of the "ideals" >> should be minimals: and are-for many of those sighted kids who are going > off >> to college. Granted many parents today have raised dependent sighted >> kids-but their stress level is high and chances for success are at risk > then >> too. I don't want my son to just survive, I want him to thrive! And that > is >> what I want for all students. Sorry to talk about ya Jordan in public >> again-hope you don't mind-that is life as the preacher's son (hope you >> noticed the insert on not putting me in a nursing home). I hope you ask >> on >> your website for high school students to demand really normal and high >> expectations for themselves and from their parents and teachers. People > are >> more at risk from the bar set too low than too high. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 18:43:21 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Message-ID: Hi all, I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high school students to understand when transitioning to college and beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those situations. I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their time so they're not late, etc. That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social situations and building connections with others—rather than just telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that following social norms and initiating connections with others makes them happier and helps them to reach their goals. So how do we do this? Any ideas? Arielle From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sun Nov 2 19:26:52 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:26:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Message-ID: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have been extinguished fully. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arielle Silverman" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >Hi all, >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >situations. >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >time so they're not late, etc. >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >situations and building connections with others—rather than just >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 2 19:34:07 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:34:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> References: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you for saying that! I've always said/thought it but felt really guilty so I'm glad I'm not the only one. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:36 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative The whole social skills and etiquette thing is such an important area that a well-known leader of ours in the area of vocational rehabilitation, Jim Omvig, has said it is the crucial fourth ingredient needed for success-or truly being capable of integrating. I have met college graduates, who have been employed in good jobs, eat with such horrible manners that one can barley stand to sit at the same table. Now they got the job because you don't have to eat in an interview, but I totally believe that it would affect things among co-workers or clients and make them lose respect for the un-mannered person if they ever went out to eat together. Another example to think of, recently I read a parent post who spoke of how wonderful it was that their child was so liked--absolutely everyone fought over helping the child. Well that child has no friends in reality, only caretakers. There is no equal and true friendship possible here. When one gets the feeling of superiority because of always needing to help another-viewing the other as equal doesn't happen. This child is being set up for a very hard time. I also know people who were lazy and not used to getting places on time or being self-organized because no one ever expected those things of them. I want to point out though that this kind of lack of social and business etiquette happens to sighted kids too. There are people who were raised with no values on these things. There are also people I have known, sighted and blind, who taught themselves and came to value etiquette despite not having been raised that way. There is no sense in discussing whether etiquette is fair or moral as a measure--it definitely is. I tend to think this way about it. Take nose picking as a fun example. I knew sighted and bind kids who picked their noses in public--or in view of others--at age ten. If so it is I say, 80% their parents fault (meaning mostly) and 20% their own fault. If they do it at age twenty five the percentage of responsibility is reversed. If they do it at age thirty, it is all on them. I agree that this covers a very very broad area. You might want to address it as social and business etiquette, using etiquette rather than skill. And I want to point out that it really has less to do with blindness, I believe, than opportunity and parents and teachers failing the child early on and the student failing to take personal responsibility as they come to adulthood. My parents didn't teach me about money as I said earlier, that and many other things I had to teach myself. Sure it made some things harder in the beginning, but now at age 49 if I am not wise with my money can I say it is my parents or teachers fault? No. I went to every prom and homecoming--it had no bearing on the outcome of my life. I am sure if we had one, studies would show that it is not a sole predictor of successful outcomes in life. I think it is very relevant for students to think of as important because of the importance of it in employment outcomes as well as adding to a socially happy time of it. Take Dr. Jernigan as an example. He was raised on a farm in Tennessee, and with manners, but the family was not highly educated or worldly, Dr. Jernigan taught himself and read extensively and found mentors to teach him, and became to have superior social graces and the capability of speaking and acting with senators, and governors, and presidents, and heads of large companies with grace and confidence. Books on etiquette abound, you can google manners, one can self teach and self improve--maybe what you can do on your web site is place the expectation there and let blind high school-ers know they have the same capability and responsibility as everyone else and it will definitely affect their life and employment capability. Well I got long thinking and winded again...don't worry I will be too busy to write anything more for awhile, smile. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything we'll do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad topic. What do you guys think? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 19:59:32 2008 From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:59:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend In-Reply-To: <40E74D52BAC94740A467FD8A7813DAFB@homeuser> References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811011230g5dbcec88i81ddee02693f6387@mail.gmail.com> <40E74D52BAC94740A467FD8A7813DAFB@homeuser> Message-ID: <081001c93d25$8c29be40$a47d3ac0$@com> David As I told you on messenger, I might be there. It's a high possibility. I have to get my ride arranged, but Yes, I should be there. It sounds really amazing! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Dunphy Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend Was just curious if anyone on this list will be there? I will be, so thought it might be interesting to meet anyone from this list who might be there. >From David _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm ail.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 21:07:30 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:07:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <490e169c.1e3e400a.3421.22f2@mx.google.com> Arielle, I think your points are right on. The whole thing is complicated and broad. Okay I said I wouldn't probably weigh in more...I hope you don't feel me an overbearing intruder... So I guess if you are thinking of just a simple fact sheet...and many just checked off for example, okay don't know JAWS, don't know slate and stylus, have few friends, have never traveled any where alone, don't know how to do laundry or cook, I do use a CCTV, and I get straight A's...what will turn them around or empower them to get the skills they really need and in the variety that they do? Do you just want them to simply know the gaps or risks they have or do you want more than that? What are the results you are wanting? What will get them to go for the benchmarks and believe that they can? I fear some could read the benchmarks-want to reach them very much-but having no idea how, will lose motivation. Is that what you are asking? The things I hope, and think you will, find a way to convey are that there are generally widely accepted etiquette things which are expected and are pretty much required for achievement of personal bests and fitting in and they are true for everyone--and blind people are capable and do everyday meet those expectations. I don't think you will find many teachers for example picking their noses in front of the class no matter where they came from or what their nasal condition-and if they do, their goes the respect of their class, they are now the butt of jokes. While you may be able to chew tobacco and spit it on the ground and be seen as acceptable if you are a cowboy but not in an office is true and gives credence to locally situational etiquette, but I think overall there is much more that is realistically commonly true. If most blind high school students were out from under the rock and had no problems here, our centers would not be full of people in need of this, and it would not even be considered as a topic for the web site, etc. Unfortunately I meet many more blind students who have lived under a rock in social and business etiquette experiences and opportunities than not, many more. (as well as lacking the travel and tech and academic skills) Which is why I am so thrilled you are all doing this. I hope too you give emphasis that there are things needed for the long haul. It is one thing to get a degree, another to get the job, and another to keep the job or earn promotions. I agree the killer of dreams is often lack of ambition, willingness to improve, fitting in appropriately...or as you say just not caring, lack of motivation or many times confidence. Getting early high expectations makes things so much easier, but I hope you convey that just because it is harder that is not an excuse after some point. That is people must realize and learn that it isn't. Eye poking may be common among blind people, but nail chewing and many other habits happen among all kinds of people and yes they are difficult, but people can and do find healthy and more socially acceptable alternatives. On the other hand, there are levels of import, I think if some eye poking happened it would not be a defining thing in the success or failure of someone just as sometime nail chewing is not. So the challenge for you will be as I see it to find the most general and important things needed socially that blind students most commonly lack knowledge or experience in and have significant consequences in addition to letting them know what will be expected for all to do. Also the things that some may attribute to being okay to use blindness as an excuse for but in reality society will judge as stereotypical and inferior. I think it effective to convey the what and how and the why. For example: The what: learning kurzweil The how: resources where to learn The why: access may only be obtained at times by scanning and getting the text read by technology--it can be efficient...efficiency leads to... The what: promptness The how: learn time management The why: being late has real consequences, they are... I am not suggesting a format here, I liked your minimal and ideal, I hope that you can add some suggestions on HOW to get to the ideal, and also why indeed they should in a variety of things. I think you will be more effective in creating real individual change if you give people knowledge of what is expected for college and adult readiness, including business and social etiquette in general, how they can meet those objectives (specific, concrete things they can do), and finally as you say-why in the heck they should-and or what the rewards or consequences will be. I also hope you will, as I said, raise the bar to be the same as would be truly minimally expected for a truly average high school student heading off to a university (which would actually be the above average students intellectually and in societal participation such as extra curricular and leadership). A theme through out that not trying to meet the bar, due to blindness or early low expectations, is acceptable--would be good. Especially if these kids have had low expectations, and we can be pretty sure generally they have, they need to know strongly that those expectations were wrong. Having a new belief and the examples of you all as mentors--telling them they can, goes a long way for motivation. One can read a list of minimal and ideal and without motivation or an idea of how to get there, they may go away feeling defeated, like "geez I am a senior and not even at the minimal", rather than empowered. I so look forward to reading your finished product! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 2 21:17:09 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:17:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <741233.78356.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> First of all, let me thank those who replied to my little novel about my life--these things are complicated to figure out--and it won' happen overnight.  Yes, to the person who asked if there is a TESOL program at West Virginia, there is, and I have considered just switching to that rather than having my profs resubmit letters of recommendation all over again, a person statement from me, etc.   As for social etiquette, it is, as others have said, dependent upon the situation (including the age and sex of the people involved, formality/informality of the setting, etc).  A quick point to make is that these are facotrs regardless of vision.  Two adults interacting would behave differently than a child meeting an adult.  A student talking with his professor would behave differently in this situation than he would when hanging out with friends, perhaps slightly adapting his speech/vocabulary/tone, etc.  The trick to "fitting in," as a blind person, comes down to observation and integration.  Intellectual awareness of social norms is important; I am reminded of what my mother always told me--you know more than you think you do.  Come to think of it I have heard this same thing from teachers in school when I was nervous about a test...and it is true.  Anxiety causes us to block out everything except the fear, in a lot of cases.  Also, something I've found helpful to remember, is that, especially in the case of strangers who you are only going to see once, chances are they are far mroe focused on their life to pay a whole lot of attention to what you're doing/saying/how you're acting, and they won't remember it 10 or 20 minutes later.  And do remember this quote... The people who matter don't mind and the people who mind don't matter.  That isn't carte blanche to do whatever, bu rather, taken in the broad sense in which it wis intended, means that the people who matter see the intentions and not the actions.   Take care, everyone. Harry --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Hope Paulos wrote: From: Hope Paulos Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 1:26 PM Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have been extinguished fully. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arielle Silverman" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >Hi all, >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >situations. >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >time so they're not late, etc. >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >situations and building connections with others—rather than just >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From iamantonio at cox.net Sun Nov 2 22:06:20 2008 From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:06:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republicandisability policy References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Beth, and all, I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as you point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, but they are surely not aganst the disabled. I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the concervatives. Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not qualify as plight, I don't know what does. So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the books, and other places to change this number. Plitefully yours, Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republicandisability policy > Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? > And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way > they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, > but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to > happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to > happen. > Beth > > On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >> information, >> as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >> >> >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >> ADAWatch.org >> National Coalition for Disability Rights >> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >> Washington, DC 20006 >> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >> >> >> NEWS RELEASE >> >> October 31, 2008 >> >> >> >> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >> McCain-Palin >> Rally >> >> >> >> Contacts: >> >> Jim Ward, Founder and President >> >> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >> >> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >> pushed >> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >> rights >> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >> candidate >> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >> >> >> >> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >> people >> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >> >> >> >> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >> include >> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >> has >> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts >> of >> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >> We >> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >> but >> equal members of our communities." >> >> >> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >> that >> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >> with >> physical and mental disabilities. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 > 9:51 AM > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 22:15:42 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:15:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republicandisability policy In-Reply-To: References: <010801c93b7f$345b3dd0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0810311456v6cccc842sb98df0ca81b5b257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811021415w3c6f33b0j2a8c7649fe2341ea@mail.gmail.com> For your info, plightfully yours could not possibly be in the dictionary. lol On 11/2/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello Beth, and all, > > I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as you > point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, but > they are surely not aganst the disabled. > > I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a > disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the > concervatives. > > Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not > qualify as plight, I don't know what does. > > So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the > books, and other places to change this number. > > Plitefully yours, > > Antonio > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over > republicandisability policy > > >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>> information, >>> as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts >>> >>> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >> 9:51 AM >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 2 22:25:23 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:25:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. Why is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to extinguish them as we grow? I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have been extinguished fully. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arielle Silverman" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >Hi all, >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >situations. >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can become so >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't care, >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >time so they're not late, etc. >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 23:10:06 2008 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:10:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811011230g5dbcec88i81ddee02693f6387@mail.gmail.com><40E74D52BAC94740A467FD8A7813DAFB@homeuser> <081001c93d25$8c29be40$a47d3ac0$@com> Message-ID: Cool..Anyone else? I'm looking forward to meeting you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karrie Kinstetter" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend > David > As I told you on messenger, I might be there. It's a high possibility. I > have to get my ride arranged, but Yes, I should be there. > It sounds really amazing! > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of David Dunphy > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] the wisconsson state convention next weekend > > Was just curious if anyone on this list will be there? I will be, so > thought > > it might be interesting to meet anyone from this list who might be there. >>From David > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Nov 3 00:26:36 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:26:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. Dave At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle >to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. >What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. Why >is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to >extinguish them as we grow? >I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or >much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my >shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is >inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Hope Paulos >Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >been extinguished fully. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Arielle Silverman" >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 > >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >Hi all, > > >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >high > >school students to understand when transitioning to college and > >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >sheet is > >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >the > >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >there is > >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >to > >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >setting > >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >Really what > >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >and > >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >those > >situations. > > >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and > >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good > >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public > >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >knowing > >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >order > >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >be > >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their > >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >picks > >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >that > >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >it's > >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply > >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >him for > >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >the > >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >for > >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >not > >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >doing > >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >inside > >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of > >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, > >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >behaviors > >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >become so > >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >stop > >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >of a > >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's > >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >motivated > >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >it. > >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >conversations > >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >and > >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a > >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >the > >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >there > >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >care, > >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >their > >time so they're not late, etc. > > >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >their > >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >(knowledge), > >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >than > >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >they've > >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >other > >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >emphasis > >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about > >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >social > >situations and building connections with others-rather than just > >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >good > >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but > >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >to > >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >experience that > >following social norms and initiating connections with others >makes > >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > > >So how do we do this? Any ideas? > > >Arielle > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >os%40maine..edu > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >ronto.ca > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >11/2/2008 9:51 AM From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 01:10:01 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:10:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman In-Reply-To: <01b701c93c75$cee27e80$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> Thanks Dezman. What I tried to say very long abouts was that I thought my son was only average as compared to his sighted peers and to where I was then. He has a bit more than me in some things-like understanding of money and banking, that I wanted all my kids not to have to teach themselves as I did. The troubling thing to me is that for a blind kid compared to many he is light years ahead, but compared to his sighted peers about to enter a university he is only average among them, while individually strong in some things and weak in others yet. I feel confident he will go off to college about as ready as any of his sighted classmates going off. I also tried to say that many people have had to teach themselves things or seek stronger skills themselves, for Beth especially I wanted her to know that her rep as a young person she spoke of is not set in concrete, she can learn better etiquette and has a long future ahead. Indeed she likely has much more future than past and can make the determination what her reputation will yet be. Some days I just can't get it out without a long story-smile. Thanks for your nice words. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative Thanks, Carrie, That was a wonderful testamony of a young man who will be truly empowered to survive in the real world. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:07:52 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 21:07:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman In-Reply-To: <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> References: <01b701c93c75$cee27e80$88d8fe45@Dezman> <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Don't worry about the long stories Carrie. It helps to relate your experiences with a good story. This list is to share experiences and ideas with other blind people. I guess stories are okay to post to the list as long it relates to an experience that all blind people can relate with. I hope I am making some sense. Albert > From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:10:01 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman > > Thanks Dezman. What I tried to say very long abouts was that I thought my > son was only average as compared to his sighted peers and to where I was > then. He has a bit more than me in some things-like understanding of money > and banking, that I wanted all my kids not to have to teach themselves as I > did. The troubling thing to me is that for a blind kid compared to many he > is light years ahead, but compared to his sighted peers about to enter a > university he is only average among them, while individually strong in some > things and weak in others yet. I feel confident he will go off to college > about as ready as any of his sighted classmates going off. > > I also tried to say that many people have had to teach themselves things or > seek stronger skills themselves, for Beth especially I wanted her to know > that her rep as a young person she spoke of is not set in concrete, she can > learn better etiquette and has a long future ahead. Indeed she likely has > much more future than past and can make the determination what her > reputation will yet be. Some days I just can't get it out without a long > story-smile. > Thanks for your nice words. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > Thanks, Carrie, > That was a wonderful testamony of a young man who will be truly empowered to > > survive in the real world. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:42:02 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:42:02 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] research methods In-Reply-To: References: <490a11fa.2204be0a.2ddb.ffff8516@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The databases associated with EbscoHost (including Academic Search Premier and Ebsco Edges) are very accessible. Others are moderately accessible, but can usually be navigated after a certain amount of trial and error. I've been able to do most of my research papers using primarily online sources, so I use the databases to locate journal articles and then download the PDF's if they're available. Many PDF articles are directly generated by Adobe so there's no need to run them through Kurzweil; you can just open them right in Adobe and read them. Other, scanned PDF's need to be recognized--with Kurzweil you can either put them into the virtual printer or just point to the PDF and select "Open with" in the file menu. I may be crazy, but when I'm first exploring a research topic I always read the articles all the way from abstract to the end of the conclusion. I read with JFW and take notes on my Braille Note, making sure to write down the article title, author, source name and some basic info from the abstract right at the beginning. (Sometimes I forget to write down the reference information, and it's really a pain to go back and look for it later!) I separate my notes for each source by paragraph to avoid getting confused between sources. I'm not real big on skimming any reading materials unless I know exactly what I'm looking for--you just never know what might be there that's important or interesting that you could miss by skipping over sections of the text. Reading whole articles can be time-consuming, but the key is to stay organized--have an outline of exactly what you want to learn so you can get the information out of the article the first time and not need to re-read it. Once I've gotten into my topic I might skip certain parts of articles that I know won't add much new information, but I generally like to take time to read at least the full abstract, introduction, conclusion and pertinent parts of the middle. I have used librarians a little bit if I find an article in an online database but the article itself is too old to be available in E-text. Then I'll print out the citation info and give it to the librarian who can help me locate the journal on the shelf and mark the pages where the article begins and ends. I can then check out the hard copy, scan it and bring it back. Of course, this can also be done with a reader. But I prefer to do the initial citation searching independently (online) and only use a reader when I have more detailed info about the articles. Arielle On 10/31/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tell me some about the skim feature. > What chunks of text does it go through? > Is that available in Openbook 7? > > Being able to skim large articles like sighted people do is a challenge. > Over experience as a senior in college I've realized that the intro method > and results portion are more important. > > I know I have to use books for my paper so really there have to use readers. > So not all sources will be electronic. So advice on guiding readers to info > is needed. So far I ask them to read headings, table of contents and look > in the index. For instance i had a paper on india schools for communication > and asked my readers to look up primary schools and curriculum in the index. > Then they started reading the first page referenced. Do you ask readers to > skim for key terms > and let them decide to read if they see that info you're describing? > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dezman Jackson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > > >> Ashley, >> In OpenBook there is a feature call the freedom Import printer that is >> analogous to the virtual printer for converting PDFs in kurzweil. >> Basically, just pull the file up in Adobe then select to print the file >> and then you select freedom import printer from the list of printers and >> hit print. Ther is also a skim reading feature available in OpenBook, but >> I don't recall the exact steps for using it at the moment but just look >> through the menus. Hope that helps. >> >> Dezman >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:54 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods >> >> Corbb, >> >> I like your idea to read the first few paragraphs and last few paragraphs >> of >> the article. I've done that with a reader. I know jaws can go by >> paragraph >> in word as well. I think I'll use your strategy of one document >> for each source. My note files are big and then I often don't know what >> notes came from wich source even though I label it on top before writing. >> Its just that when reading further down in the document I forget what >> source >> it is. If its named at the top of the document maybe this will help. >> >> I don't use Kurzweil but do have Openbook. Is there a similar feature in >> it? If so how do you use it? Many database files are in PDF. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Corbb O'Connor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods >> >> >>> This will be brief because I am running to class in a moment. If you >>> use Kurzweil, I open the articles in Adobe Reader, then print to "KESI >>> Virtual Printer"--installed when you install K1000. The page numbers >>> then appear at the top or bottom of the Kurzweil pages, as those are >>> printed on each page of the journal. There's an option in K1000 to >>> "review" or "skim" or something like that -- basically it reads the >>> first sentence of each paragraph. I read the first few paragraphs of >>> the article, the last few paragraphs of the article, and the first >>> sentence of each paragraph. That usually tells me whether the article >>> will be helpful -- if so, then I find parts that seemed of use and >>> read those. >>> >>> I use a magnification program, not JAWS, so I am not sure about >>> database accessbility. >>> >>> I am trying a new strategy for notes -- a new Word document for each >>> source, and then later blend those together into an outline of quotes, >>> paraphrases, etc. Then it's writing time! >>> >>> Good luck. >>> Corbb >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Serena wrote: >>>> I used the library data bases. Proquest Direct and Ebscohost are pretty >>>> accessible. If the articles were relatively short, I read them all the >>>> way >>>> through with Jaws, but if they were really long, I used readers. The >>>> librarians often helped me find books. That often helped, so I wouldn't >>>> have to use readers for that. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] research methods >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I wanted some more ideas on this. Then I'll have a sheet with ideas >>>>> for >>>>> myself and others wo ask me. I am about to begin a big research paper >>>>> for >>>>> my senior class. All seniors do this to demonstrate critical thinking, >>>>> organization and writing skills. Research has been quite challenging. >>>>> I >>>>> use readers a lot but its hard to communicate what I am looking for. >>>>> Much >>>>> research is at the library and books and some other matterial is not >>>>> accessible. So my questions. >>>>> >>>>> Do you use your school's databases? What ones are jaws friendly? Its >>>>> been my experience that databases are not very accessible. There are >>>>> lots >>>>> of boxes and info before jaws reads the titles of articles. In an >>>>> article >>>>> I'm sure you read the abstract first to determine relevance. I do as >>>>> wel. >>>>> >>>>> How do you skim the article for relevant info? Or perhaps you read it >>>>> all? Scholarly articles are big, about twenty pages long on average >>>>> from my >>>>> experience. With jaws or a reader, skipping info is hard since I don't >>>>> know >>>>> what I'm looking for exactly. >>>>> How do you cite pages? Does someone read you the page numbers as well? >>>>> This has been problematic for me. I write notes but don't know later >>>>> what >>>>> page it was on and cannot skim the article for that info. >>>>> >>>>> Have you used the librarians for help? If so, what role did they play? >>>>> Did you ask them to search for you and they read you the titles of >>>>> articles/books? I have used them and they pointed me to the right >>>>> databases >>>>> and card catalog for books but also served as a reader sort of as we >>>>> gathered info. >>>>> >>>>> I find research frustrating when you think something sounds great and >>>>> read >>>>> it but then its not so good. I think this happens to all students, but >>>>> since it takes longer for us its more frustrating. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas are appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3567 (20081029) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3570 (20081030) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3571 (20081030) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:55:19 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:55:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman References: <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00e301c93d5f$9d0a3890$88d8fe45@Dezman> Yes, keep them coming Karrie. Your firsthand insight and experience is invaluable and if you don't mind, I've saved that story and would like to share it with some parents. Thanks, Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Gilmer" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman > Thanks Dezman. What I tried to say very long abouts was that I thought my > son was only average as compared to his sighted peers and to where I was > then. He has a bit more than me in some things-like understanding of money > and banking, that I wanted all my kids not to have to teach themselves as > I > did. The troubling thing to me is that for a blind kid compared to many he > is light years ahead, but compared to his sighted peers about to enter a > university he is only average among them, while individually strong in > some > things and weak in others yet. I feel confident he will go off to college > about as ready as any of his sighted classmates going off. > > I also tried to say that many people have had to teach themselves things > or > seek stronger skills themselves, for Beth especially I wanted her to know > that her rep as a young person she spoke of is not set in concrete, she > can > learn better etiquette and has a long future ahead. Indeed she likely has > much more future than past and can make the determination what her > reputation will yet be. Some days I just can't get it out without a long > story-smile. > Thanks for your nice words. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > Thanks, Carrie, > That was a wonderful testamony of a young man who will be truly empowered > to > > survive in the real world. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 03:25:31 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. Beth On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: > Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self > stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them > naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. > > Dave > > At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle >>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. >>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. >> Why >>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to >>extinguish them as we grow? >>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or >>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my >>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is >>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>Of Hope Paulos >>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>been extinguished fully. >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Arielle Silverman" > >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >Hi all, >> >> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>high >> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>sheet is >> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>the >> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>there is >> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>to >> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>setting >> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>Really what >> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>and >> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>those >> >situations. >> >> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>knowing >> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>order >> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>be >> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>picks >> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>that >> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>it's >> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>him for >> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>the >> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>for >> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>not >> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>doing >> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>inside >> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>behaviors >> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>become so >> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>stop >> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>of a >> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>motivated >> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>it. >> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>conversations >> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>and >> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>the >> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>there >> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>care, >> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>their >> >time so they're not late, etc. >> >> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>their >> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>(knowledge), >> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>than >> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>they've >> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>other >> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>emphasis >> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>social >> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>good >> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>to >> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>experience that >> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>makes >> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >> >Arielle >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>os%40maine..edu >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>ronto.ca >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>11/2/2008 9:51 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From spangler.robert at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 04:39:20 2008 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:39:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Ohio Student Division and Toledo chapter revitalization Message-ID: <490E8078.2060709@gmail.com> Hello Federationalists, I have just returned from our state convention here in Ohio where a few interesting events took place. The one of which I would like to cover the most in this email is the return of the NFB of Ohio student division. I myself was elected president and another member, who is on this list as Annie, was elected to be secretary/treasurer. Although I may have done this several times before, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself and give everyone my contact information, especially those students from Ohio who are interested in taking part in the student division. I go by Robby and I am a 20-year old Sophomore attending the University of Toledo in northwest Ohio. I am currently pursuing a major in Political Science and a minor in Spanish which I may later turn into a major. I am also a member of student senate which is part of student government at the University of Toledo. Basically, I listen, vote, and pass resolutions that inform the administrators of the university what the students think - collectively, of course. I also have a strong background in computers and am taking a computer science course in UNIX administration and C programming. If anyone wants to get ahold of me, feel free to email me at this address, spangler.robert at gmail.com. I can also be reached at robert.spangler at utoledo.edu. I can be found on Facebook under Robby Spangler. If you wish to talk by phone, please email me first off-list. The last issue I would like to touch on is the revitalization of a NFB chapter here in the Toledo/northwest Ohio area. Anyone from Toledo or surrounding areas interested in this please contact me. This would be a great opportunity for blind people in this region. Thanks everyone, Robby From spangler.robert at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 05:03:33 2008 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:03:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but unfortunately true. I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind majority. Thanks, Robby Hope Paulos wrote: > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a > wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of > others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several > "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke > my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my > grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so > proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she > insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when > people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even > know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the > people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their > eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to > not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not > sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it > in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i > apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that > would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in > age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these > behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time > for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others—rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > From spangler.robert at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 05:08:48 2008 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:08:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <490E8760.4040901@gmail.com> I think that if you become a good friend of someone it may help you when attempting to approach them. Also, approach the subject gently, not making fun of the person or making them feel stupid. Also, it would be best to approach them privately or with someone else who is as equal of a friend to them as you are. You can't push it on them but you can give them suggestions and inform them of the consequences of not following socially appropriate norms. Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle > to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. > What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. Why > is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to > extinguish them as we grow? > I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of > these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of > shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or > much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my > shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is > inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hope Paulos > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this > to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my > own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had > several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, > and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do > this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how > much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't > exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that > I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, > when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they > don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I > couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not > rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these > behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially > appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were > talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my > intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I > worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain > sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 > to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors > at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for > me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 05:22:42 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 23:22:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Ohio Student Division and Toledo chapterrevitalization References: <490E8078.2060709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <010701c93d74$33544070$88d8fe45@Dezman> Congrads Robbi. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Ohio Student Division and Toledo chapterrevitalization > Hello Federationalists, > > I have just returned from our state convention here in Ohio where a few > interesting events took place. The one of which I would like to cover the > most in this email is the return of the NFB of Ohio student division. I > myself was elected president and another member, who is on this list as > Annie, was elected to be secretary/treasurer. Although I may have done > this several times before, I would like to take this opportunity to > introduce myself and give everyone my contact information, especially > those students from Ohio who are interested in taking part in the student > division. > > I go by Robby and I am a 20-year old Sophomore attending the University of > Toledo in northwest Ohio. I am currently pursuing a major in Political > Science and a minor in Spanish which I may later turn into a major. I am > also a member of student senate which is part of student government at the > University of Toledo. Basically, I listen, vote, and pass resolutions > that inform the administrators of the university what the students think - > collectively, of course. I also have a strong background in computers and > am taking a computer science course in UNIX administration and C > programming. > > If anyone wants to get ahold of me, feel free to email me at this address, > spangler.robert at gmail.com. I can also be reached at > robert.spangler at utoledo.edu. I can be found on Facebook under Robby > Spangler. If you wish to talk by phone, please email me first off-list. > > The last issue I would like to touch on is the revitalization of a NFB > chapter here in the Toledo/northwest Ohio area. Anyone from Toledo or > surrounding areas interested in this please contact me. This would be a > great opportunity for blind people in this region. > > Thanks everyone, > Robby > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 06:07:52 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 17:07:52 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I appreciate everyone's responses on these threads; you will help to contribute to an excellent, informative page on the NABS Web site geared toward transitioning youth. I would definitely like to include skill areas as well as suggestions for practical things that students can do to improve in those areas in preparation for either college or work. Obviously we will emphasize the importance of receiving good training (from an NFB center etc.), but what are suggestions for some other ways that students can learn/practice skills? I also agree that many blind people do not behave in accordance with etiquette rules--my point is just that I think in many cases, it's not just because they "don't know better" but because they don't feel motivated to change their behavior. If people are not held to high expectations they may know intellectually that something should or shouldn't be done in public (and be able to explain it to you, etc.) but they haven't had any reason to care about their behavior. That's why I'm skeptical that simply telling someone that a behavior is inappropriate once is really enough to motivate them to change--although being nagged might be an incentive in the short term. I also think it's important to understand this when we observe others around us who don't follow social conventions--it's not necessarily that they innocently don't know any differently, but rather that they may know it intellectually but not really understand it on an emotional level, or they may simply not care unless they have some personal incentive to act in a more appropriate way. On the Web site we can certainly suggest ways for high school students to get involved in real social situations (such as joining extracurriculars or shopping with friends) where they will not only learn these rules/skills but also develop real incentives to attend to their social behavior. For example, when I was in high school I did competitive speech for two years and there were certain nonverbal behaviors that we were all expected to do. I knew if I wanted to win the round, I had to do my best to make eye contact with the judges, stand straight, use appropriate gestures and not rock, for example. People could remind me about those things a thousand times in class or at home, but it was in a speech tournament where those things really mattered in a tangible way that I really started paying closer attention to them. Other thoughts besides the extracurricular and shopping examples I gave above? Arielle On 11/3/08, Beth wrote: > That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I > admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God > knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a > gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, > moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. > Beth > > On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>> struggle >>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>> occasionally. >>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. >>> Why >>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to >>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or >>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my >>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is >>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>>Of Hope Paulos >>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>been extinguished fully. >>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" >> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >Hi all, >>> >>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>high >>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>sheet is >>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>the >>> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>there is >>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>to >>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>setting >>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>Really what >>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>and >>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>those >>> >situations. >>> >>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>knowing >>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>order >>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>be >>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>picks >>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>that >>> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>it's >>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>him for >>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>the >>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>for >>> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>not >>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>doing >>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>inside >>> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>behaviors >>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>become so >>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>stop >>> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>of a >>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>motivated >>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>it. >>> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>conversations >>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>and >>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>the >>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>there >>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>care, >>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>their >>> >time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>their >>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>(knowledge), >>> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>than >>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>they've >>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>other >>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>emphasis >>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>social >>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>good >>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>to >>> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>experience that >>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>makes >>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>> >Arielle >>> >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >nabs-l mailing list >>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>os%40maine..edu >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>ronto.ca >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Nov 3 06:52:40 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:52:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman In-Reply-To: <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> References: <01b701c93c75$cee27e80$88d8fe45@Dezman> <490e4f6f.1e2d400a.1a15.262c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I'm not so sure your son is just average. I know many sighted people who are more easily disoriented than I am, and have never taken public transit. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:10 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman Thanks Dezman. What I tried to say very long abouts was that I thought my son was only average as compared to his sighted peers and to where I was then. He has a bit more than me in some things-like understanding of money and banking, that I wanted all my kids not to have to teach themselves as I did. The troubling thing to me is that for a blind kid compared to many he is light years ahead, but compared to his sighted peers about to enter a university he is only average among them, while individually strong in some things and weak in others yet. I feel confident he will go off to college about as ready as any of his sighted classmates going off. I also tried to say that many people have had to teach themselves things or seek stronger skills themselves, for Beth especially I wanted her to know that her rep as a young person she spoke of is not set in concrete, she can learn better etiquette and has a long future ahead. Indeed she likely has much more future than past and can make the determination what her reputation will yet be. Some days I just can't get it out without a long story-smile. Thanks for your nice words. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative Thanks, Carrie, That was a wonderful testamony of a young man who will be truly empowered to survive in the real world. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Nov 3 06:57:00 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:57:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: I also notice people checking talking watches at inappropriate times, or having their rooster alarms go off at inappropriate times. Or some people talking over others. Obviously sighted people can do this too, but I think I notice it more in the blind because I critique them more. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Spangler Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but unfortunately true. I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind majority. Thanks, Robby Hope Paulos wrote: > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a > wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of > others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several > "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke > my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my > grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so > proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she > insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when > people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even > know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the > people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their > eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to > not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not > sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it > in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i > apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that > would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in > age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these > behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time > for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Nov 3 06:58:27 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:58:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <490E8760.4040901@gmail.com> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8760.4040901@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys - that's great. It might be so unconscious that they may not even be aware of it anymore, so pointing it out gently and in private is probably a good thing. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Spangler Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette I think that if you become a good friend of someone it may help you when attempting to approach them. Also, approach the subject gently, not making fun of the person or making them feel stupid. Also, it would be best to approach them privately or with someone else who is as equal of a friend to them as you are. You can't push it on them but you can give them suggestions and inform them of the consequences of not following socially appropriate norms. Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle > to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. > What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. Why > is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to > extinguish them as we grow? > I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of > these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of > shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or > much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my > shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is > inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hope Paulos > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this > to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my > own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had > several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, > and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do > this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how > much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't > exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that > I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, > when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they > don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I > couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not > rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these > behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially > appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were > talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my > intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I > worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain > sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 > to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors > at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for > me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 08:36:14 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 00:36:14 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> Message-ID: <20081103083614.GB1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> Mike, They serve a valid purpose for people who need them. The problem is that most of them are dysfunctional and don't serve any purpose well. That has been true at many institutions I have attended, but at present, the DSO at Western Oregon University is a fine office and far better than any other I have worked with at providing the appropriate accommodations in a timely manner. They're still within their first year of a totally new staff, who began in January, and they've accomplished much in that time just related to blindness. For one, you might recall that I asked last year in November or December about how DSOs that get it right work regarding textbooks--the winning answer was provided by Dezman Jackson, and Western Oregon is working to implement that solution, as quickly as they may. They're still working on some of the infrastructure pieces. To steal an actually useful idea offered by Obama for a change (and thus I state my political bias), what we need isn't more or less DSOs. We need better DSOs that actually provide _reasonable_ accommodations based upon the actual disability of the person seeking accommodations. We need them to be as creative in solving problems as the rest of the world is at creating them. We need them to come up with the most appropriate way to diminish the effects of a disability--no more and no less. And we need them to do it in a timely and efficient manner that doesn't create extra work or burden for students or faculty. When real people come into the picture, cookie cutter forms and stereotype accommodations don't cut it. That's my take. Joseph On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:41:37PM -0700, Mike Freeman wrote: >Methinks DSS offices should petition colleges and universities to abolish themselves (the ofices, that is). > >Mike > >#- Original Message #- >From: Dezman Jackson >To: >Date: 2008/10/31 15:53:50 >Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices > >> >> >> Hello, nabsters, >> The Alabama Association of Blind Students is in the process of compiling a list of guidelines or tips regarding serving blind students. Specifically, we would like information on what accommodations may or may not be appropriate and what tasks the student should be expected to handle on their own. I know that a lot of us have much experience with this type of thing so if you would be so kind please post your thoughts. Our plan is to start compiling these tips at the end of November. >> >> Thanks, >> Dezman >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 08:39:07 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 00:39:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Tips for DSS offices In-Reply-To: <010601c93b9c$0527ef50$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> References: <490b2799.4403be0a.7ddc.10a8@mx.google.com> <20081031194137.k7uij@panix.com> <010601c93b9c$0527ef50$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20081103083907.GC1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> Sarah, Agreed about the ability to refuse an accommodation. I can see the requirement that you register, since you verify your disability by doing so--but you should be allowed to simply get yourself on the list and be allowed to negotiate what you need with your professors. A DSO that won't do that is, in my opinion, not acting in the best interests of its students. Joseph On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 05:02:42PM -0400, Sarah J. Blake wrote: > Students should have the option to use or not use services. My greatest > complaint about many DSS offices is that they strip power from able > students by requiring them to use official reader lists and other > accommodations. Professors are allowed to refuse to accommodate students > with obvious disabilities who have not registered with the DSS office. > > I understand that all students do not have the same degree of > self-advocacy ability and in fact that some students come to college with > multiple disabilities that can make their needs very challenging. > However, the DSS offices need to make it possible for these students to > obtain the assistance they need without forcing the assistance on people > who prefer to do things in other ways. > > Sarah J. Blake > http://www.growingstrong.org > sjblake at growingstrong.org > > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 08:44:15 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 00:44:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> Arielle, I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. Joseph On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, > >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >situations. > >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >time so they're not late, etc. > >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >situations and building connections with others—rather than just >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From hope.paulos at maine.edu Mon Nov 3 11:51:33 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:51:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Message-ID: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is what the nfb centers do. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I >admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God >knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, >moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. >Beth >On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >> Dave >> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still struggle >>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock occasionally. >>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. >>> Why >>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have to >>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, or >>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of my >>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior is >>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>>Of Hope Paulos >>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>been extinguished fully. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>Hi all, >>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>high >>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>sheet is >>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>the >>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>there is >>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>to >>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>setting >>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>Really what >>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>and >>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>those >>>>situations. >>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>knowing >>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>order >>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>be >>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>picks >>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>that >>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>it's >>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>him for >>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>the >>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>for >>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>not >>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>doing >>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>inside >>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>behaviors >>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>become so >>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>stop >>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>of a >>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>motivated >>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>it. >>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>conversations >>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>and >>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>the >>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>there >>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>care, >>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>their >>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>their >>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>(knowledge), >>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>than >>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>they've >>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>other >>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>emphasis >>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>social >>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>good >>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>to >>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>experience that >>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>makes >>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>Arielle >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>os%40maine..edu >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >>>ronto.ca >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% 40visi.com >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 12:11:39 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811030411q69bd9902i8d649eda778a6be4@mail.gmail.com> I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching band and chorus. That was it. Beth On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Arielle, > > I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along > with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and > say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback > is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue > you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>situations. >> >>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>time so they're not late, etc. >> >>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>situations and building connections with others—rather than just >>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>Arielle >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Mon Nov 3 13:56:44 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:56:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Message-ID: <20081103135615.SEGP13158.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I was in the same boat, Beth. I totally understand what you mean. I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school. She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them instead. There were very few times when she would invite to go places with her other friends. I guess she didn't accept the blindness. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends >is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in >the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I >could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching >band and chorus. That was it. >Beth >On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Arielle, >> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along >> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and >> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback >> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue >> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. >> Joseph >> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>>situations. >>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>>situations and building connections with others—rather than just >>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>Arielle >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 14:10:14 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:10:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman In-Reply-To: <00e301c93d5f$9d0a3890$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <490f067c.1b2d400a.6ec8.ffffaf89@mx.google.com> Dear Dezman, I consider it a compliment that you wish to share it. Empowering parents and blind kids is what I am all about. Thanks to you and everyone for the kind and encouraging words. Feel free to always give any family my contact information as well. Keep up the good work! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Leaving the Nest-For Dezman Yes, keep them coming Karrie. Your firsthand insight and experience is invaluable and if you don't mind, I've saved that story and would like to share it with some parents. Thanks, Dezman From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 14:20:27 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:20:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette-quote from Dr. King In-Reply-To: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <490f08b1.092a400a.2cf6.0d8b@mx.google.com> Very good point Joseph, I would like to share a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., "People are often led to causes and become committed to great ideas through persons who personify those ideas. They have to find the embodiment of the idea in flesh and blood in order to commit themselves to it." Most of us in the NFB were mentored in by a member or members. A good web site can attract their attention and make them aware, putting something from a personal nature on it helps to draw them in and initiate contact, and the most important thing then is the follow up of a relationship with that someone. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Arielle, I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. Joseph From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 16:32:13 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:32:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <20081103135615.SEGP13158.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on Thursday and catch up? I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too busy! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette I was in the same boat, Beth. I totally understand what you mean. I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school. She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them instead. There were very few times when she would invite to go places with her other friends. I guess she didn't accept the blindness. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends >is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in >the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I >could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching >band and chorus. That was it. >Beth >On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Arielle, >> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along >> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and >> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback >> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue >> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. >> Joseph >> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>>situations. >>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can become so >>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't care, >>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>Arielle >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 17:12:06 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:12:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Antonio, Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is that it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to miraculously make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama if you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. Joe Orozco P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article you forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make evidence, only hearsay. "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability policy Hello Beth, and all, I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as you point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, but they are surely not aganst the disabled. I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the concervatives. Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not qualify as plight, I don't know what does. So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the books, and other places to change this number. Plitefully yours, Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over republicandisability policy > Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? > And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way > they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, > but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to > happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to > happen. > Beth > > On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >> >> >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >> ADAWatch.org >> National Coalition for Disability Rights >> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >> Washington, DC 20006 >> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >> >> >> NEWS RELEASE >> >> October 31, 2008 >> >> >> >> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >> McCain-Palin >> Rally >> >> >> >> Contacts: >> >> Jim Ward, Founder and President >> >> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >> >> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >> >> >> >> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >> pushed >> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >> rights >> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >> candidate >> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >> >> >> >> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >> people >> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >> >> >> >> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >> include >> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >> has >> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts >> of >> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >> >> >> >> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >> We >> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >> but >> equal members of our communities." >> >> >> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >> that >> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >> with >> physical and mental disabilities. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 > 9:51 AM > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 17:20:11 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:20:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: Message-ID: <7C7A96380CE44289A559CC06A3B53FEA@Ashley> Arielle, Great post. I think social skills and etiquette is so broad that it would be difficult to state on a website in words. One challenge in explaining is that what is appropriate in one setting is not in another. Great point about blind kids/teens knowlege of social norms is not enough. They have to be motivated to comply with them. >From experience its challenging to know what to expect and how to act in some situations because I cannot see how others are acting. Manners and behavior is often learned by observational learning, meaning you see it and imitate it. Blind and low vision kids cannot see this so have to be told or ask about it or listen closely and figure it out. From experience casual settings such as school and eating in a cafeteria are not problematic. Where I encounter questions and sometimes don't know what to expect is in more formal settings. These include: church services, weddings, more formal gatherings such as receptions and interviews. I wasn't sure how much emotion to display or how much to say sometimes. So yes parents and teachers need to address this more. I know sighted people feel the same way and may be nervous about new situations but I think its magnified when you can't look around and learn. Three examples: 1. I was at a reception after a workshop as part of a government internship. It was crowded and there was food. Many leaders had name tags on. I did not know who to approach and what to say. Finally, wanting food from the counter, I approached someone who was not in a conversation requesting they tell me what food was available and explain the setup; after all its very rude to touch food for public use. Then after eating I just listened and joined a conversation. But I really didn't know how to blend in in a crowd of mainly strangers. 2. In interviews, I am not sure how much info to give. If there are multiple people in the room whom do you make eye contact with? Probably just the speaker. Interviews are scary for everyone and hopefully will come with practice I'll get better. 3. At weddings, I know you just sit and watch the service. But afterward I don't know what to do. Whose hands to shake? How much do I tell them? Also every service is different? When do you stand? Sometimes they announce it but if not I just listen for everyone else rising and join in. So if you have etiquette tips for my three situations please share. As to motivating kids and teaching good question. Here are my ideas: 1. Talk about it. 2. Then role play. This is feasible if its a one to one setting or small group; you cannot simulate a whole crowd of people. 3. After role playing discuss ways to improve and practice more. 4. There are general etiquette classes out there for everyone and a blind person can attend one of them. 5. Parents need to expose their kids at age appropriate times to events and learn in real settings so they are not confused later. For instance encourage them to go to dances; take them to formal gatherings such as employee holiday parties. My father took me to some of his work parties; of course the whole family was invited so it wasn't just a special arrangement for me. 6. To learn business etiquette there are a few ideas. Talk about it. Have the teen job shadow someone. Maybe the teen can even visit the parent's place of employment for a few hours. Just asking questions of employees in your field is a way to gather a lot. I think there are books out there on business skills too; I've read some on interviewing skills at least. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:43 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Hi all, I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high school students to understand when transitioning to college and beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those situations. I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their time so they're not late, etc. That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social situations and building connections with others—rather than just telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that following social norms and initiating connections with others makes them happier and helps them to reach their goals. So how do we do this? Any ideas? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Nov 3 17:37:30 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:37:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> References: <20081103135615.SEGP13158.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I can definitely understand friend issues. After awhile I got used to be the social planner - which guaranteed I got an invite to tings. But it's annoying and discouraging only going to things you plan, cause no one calls you first or don't invite you anywhere. I'd like to think it's not my blindness that's holding people back - I want to think they're better than that - but then it must be me and I always thought I was fun to be around ... I don't know ... -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:32 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on Thursday and catch up? I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too busy! Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette I was in the same boat, Beth. I totally understand what you mean. I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school. She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them instead. There were very few times when she would invite to go places with her other friends. I guess she didn't accept the blindness. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends >is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in >the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I >could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching >band and chorus. That was it. >Beth >On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Arielle, >> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along >> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and >> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback >> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue >> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. >> Joseph >> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>>situations. >>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can become so >>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't care, >>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>Arielle >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Nov 2 16:45:06 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 11:45:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative References: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811020929s37b8f3acpf4530cf5dbbefdfe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301c93d0a$5cada160$0201a8c0@Serene> How about learning how to be a friend without being a burden and not over-staying your welcome, let's say, in your friends' dorm rooms Serena. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative >I like all these ideas. > Beth > > On 11/2/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> The whole social skills and etiquette thing is such an important area >> that a >> well-known leader of ours in the area of vocational rehabilitation, Jim >> Omvig, has said it is the crucial fourth ingredient needed for success-or >> truly being capable of integrating. >> >> I have met college graduates, who have been employed in good jobs, eat >> with >> such horrible manners that one can barley stand to sit at the same table. >> Now they got the job because you don't have to eat in an interview, but I >> totally believe that it would affect things among co-workers or clients >> and >> make them lose respect for the un-mannered person if they ever went out >> to >> eat together. Another example to think of, recently I read a parent post >> who >> spoke of how wonderful it was that their child was so liked--absolutely >> everyone fought over helping the child. Well that child has no friends in >> reality, only caretakers. There is no equal and true friendship possible >> here. When one gets the feeling of superiority because of always needing >> to >> help another-viewing the other as equal doesn't happen. This child is >> being >> set up for a very hard time. I also know people who were lazy and not >> used >> to getting places on time or being self-organized because no one ever >> expected those things of them. >> >> I want to point out though that this kind of lack of social and business >> etiquette happens to sighted kids too. There are people who were raised >> with >> no values on these things. There are also people I have known, sighted >> and >> blind, who taught themselves and came to value etiquette despite not >> having >> been raised that way. There is no sense in discussing whether etiquette >> is >> fair or moral as a measure--it definitely is. I tend to think this way >> about >> it. Take nose picking as a fun example. I knew sighted and bind kids who >> picked their noses in public--or in view of others--at age ten. If so it >> is >> I say, 80% their parents fault (meaning mostly) and 20% their own fault. >> If >> they do it at age twenty five the percentage of responsibility is >> reversed. >> If they do it at age thirty, it is all on them. >> >> I agree that this covers a very very broad area. You might want to >> address >> it as social and business etiquette, using etiquette rather than skill. >> And >> I want to point out that it really has less to do with blindness, I >> believe, >> than opportunity and parents and teachers failing the child early on and >> the >> student failing to take personal responsibility as they come to >> adulthood. >> My parents didn't teach me about money as I said earlier, that and many >> other things I had to teach myself. Sure it made some things harder in >> the >> beginning, but now at age 49 if I am not wise with my money can I say it >> is >> my parents or teachers fault? No. I went to every prom and homecoming--it >> had no bearing on the outcome of my life. I am sure if we had one, >> studies >> would show that it is not a sole predictor of successful outcomes in >> life. >> >> I think it is very relevant for students to think of as important because >> of >> the importance of it in employment outcomes as well as adding to a >> socially >> happy time of it. Take Dr. Jernigan as an example. He was raised on a >> farm >> in Tennessee, and with manners, but the family was not highly educated or >> worldly, Dr. Jernigan taught himself and read extensively and found >> mentors >> to teach him, and became to have superior social graces and the >> capability >> of speaking and acting with senators, and governors, and presidents, and >> heads of large companies with grace and confidence. Books on etiquette >> abound, you can google manners, one can self teach and self >> improve--maybe >> what you can do on your web site is place the expectation there and let >> blind high school-ers know they have the same capability and >> responsibility >> as everyone else and it will definitely affect their life and employment >> capability. >> >> Well I got long thinking and winded again...don't worry I will be too >> busy >> to write anything more for awhile, smile. >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sarah Jevnikar >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative >> >> Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything >> we'll >> do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special >> socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad >> topic. >> What do you guys think? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative >> >> I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I >> don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think >> I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and >> burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the >> ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it >> than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I >> never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court >> because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. >> (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be >> more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My >> ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just >> weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn >> that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal >> social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o >> a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody >> figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. >> Beth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 17:55:47 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:55:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I agree. They may behave inappropriately because they are not motivated to change their behavior. Parents giving rewards and taking them to places where they can practice the skills and observe with their other senses how to act are the best things I can think of. I see many inappropriate behaviors at gatherings of blind people in the NFB. I don't want to offend anyone, but this does not give me a positive view of the nfb. I am a member of a chapter but I question whether I want to hang around people who thing they are the center of the world and really don't care about others who try and help. I was raised to say thanks and please at the right time as well as politely decline help if I don't need it. Some behaviors I witness: 1. people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room 2. talking while someone else is speaking; so many side conversations in the room and makes it difficult to hear; I've been to many meetings for internships, Student government meetings to observe, and club meetings and never do I see such behavior; if someone is inattentive they are doing something quiet like reading or texting on the phone, but not disrupting the meeting 3. Interrupting a conversation. 4. When discussing something like an event where people just generally talk and the officers hear ideas, members talk to one part of the room rather than the whole room of people. 5. Placement of canes; I know NFB likes straight canes; I personally use folding for convenience. But if you choose to use a straight cane, it is your responsibility to place it in a way where others won't trip. Placing it where it sticks out from the table is a tripping hazzard. I place mine under my feet or fold it and place it by my chair and its small so does not stick out. 6. General manners; sighted people have to read menus at dinner meetings which are the usual thing to meet at a restaurant for us. Few people thank them for their help. 7. People leave early because their ride is there. Why come at all if you have to come early or leave late. Its disruptive when people don't stay for the whole meeting. I rarely see this at other events other than at events with blind people. Even at college with immature students, they come for the who event or not at all. If they do have to leave early they leave quietly and sit near the door so they can slip out when needed. Okay I know this was a novel, but it really got me to thinking when social etiquette came up about the rude behaviors I see at NFB events. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > Hi all, > > I appreciate everyone's responses on these threads; you will help to > contribute to an excellent, informative page on the NABS Web site > geared toward transitioning youth. I would definitely like to include > skill areas as well as suggestions for practical things that students > can do to improve in those areas in preparation for either college or > work. Obviously we will emphasize the importance of receiving good > training (from an NFB center etc.), but what are suggestions for some > other ways that students can learn/practice skills? > > I also agree that many blind people do not behave in accordance with > etiquette rules--my point is just that I think in many cases, it's not > just because they "don't know better" but because they don't feel > motivated to change their behavior. If people are not held to high > expectations they may know intellectually that something should or > shouldn't be done in public (and be able to explain it to you, etc.) > but they haven't had any reason to care about their behavior. That's > why I'm skeptical that simply telling someone that a behavior is > inappropriate once is really enough to motivate them to > change--although being nagged might be an incentive in the short term. > I also think it's important to understand this when we observe others > around us who don't follow social conventions--it's not necessarily > that they innocently don't know any differently, but rather that they > may know it intellectually but not really understand it on an > emotional level, or they may simply not care unless they have some > personal incentive to act in a more appropriate way. > > On the Web site we can certainly suggest ways for high school students > to get involved in real social situations (such as joining > extracurriculars or shopping with friends) where they will not only > learn these rules/skills but also develop real incentives to attend to > their social behavior. For example, when I was in high school I did > competitive speech for two years and there were certain nonverbal > behaviors that we were all expected to do. I knew if I wanted to win > the round, I had to do my best to make eye contact with the judges, > stand straight, use appropriate gestures and not rock, for example. > People could remind me about those things a thousand times in class or > at home, but it was in a speech tournament where those things really > mattered in a tangible way that I really started paying closer > attention to them. > > Other thoughts besides the extracurricular and shopping examples I gave > above? > > Arielle > > On 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >> That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I >> admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God >> knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >> gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, >> moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. >> Beth >> >> On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>>> struggle >>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>> occasionally. >>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind people. >>>> Why >>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have >>>>to >>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, >>>>or >>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of >>>>my >>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior >>>>is >>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>been extinguished fully. >>>> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>> >Hi all, >>>> >>>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>high >>>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>sheet is >>>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>the >>>> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>there is >>>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>to >>>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>setting >>>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>Really what >>>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>and >>>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>those >>>> >situations. >>>> >>>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>knowing >>>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>order >>>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>be >>>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>picks >>>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>that >>>> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>it's >>>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>him for >>>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>the >>>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>for >>>> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>not >>>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>doing >>>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>inside >>>> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>behaviors >>>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>become so >>>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>stop >>>> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>of a >>>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>motivated >>>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>it. >>>> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>conversations >>>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>and >>>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>the >>>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>there >>>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>care, >>>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>their >>>> >time so they're not late, etc. >>>> >>>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>their >>>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>(knowledge), >>>> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>than >>>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>they've >>>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>other >>>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>emphasis >>>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>social >>>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>good >>>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>to >>>> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>experience that >>>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>makes >>>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>> >>>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>> >>>> >Arielle >>>> >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >nabs-l mailing list >>>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>os%40maine..edu >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 17:57:55 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:57:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robby, You are right on! I see these behaviors at the NFB state virginia convention and it bothers me. My father who is sighted thinks the majority of blind people are rude and second they have a chip on their shoulder. I know they act better as individuals but when gathering in a group its like blind people think they can act differently without anyone seeing it because they're the majority then. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but unfortunately true. I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind majority. Thanks, Robby Hope Paulos wrote: > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a > wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of > others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several > "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke my > eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my > grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so > proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she > insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when > people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even know > this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the people > around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their eyes. She > needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed > at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was > what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way > my intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I worked > at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain sounds or flap > their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 to 14. It was extremely > difficult to extinguish these behaviors at those ages. The students > progressed when it came time for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to > whether the behaviors have been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others—rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Nov 3 18:04:24 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:04:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB versus Target settlement Message-ID: ATTENTION: LEGALLY BLIND INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE ATTEMPTED TO VISIT TARGET.COM WHILE IN CALIFORNIA SINCE FEBRUARY 7, 2003 You may be entitled to payment of money as part of a settlement of a lawsuit filed against Target concerning access to its website. The settlement has been granted preliminary approval by the court in charge of the case. If you are a legally blind individual who tried to access Target.com while in California at any time since February 7, 2003, you may be eligible to be paid damages of up to $7,000. To find out more about the settlement and to submit a claim, please go to www.NFBtargetlawsuit.com and follow the instructions on this settlement website. You may also request a claim form from the Claims Administrator whose contact information is set forth below. Please provide your name, address, and phone number when you contact the Claims Administrator. All claims must be submitted on line by January 8, 2009 or by mail postmarked no later than January 8, 2009. LATE CLAIMS MAY BE DENIED. All questions should be directed to the Claims Administrator. Please do not contact Target Corporation concerning this settlement. Contact information for Claims Administrator: NFB v. Target Claims Administrator, RG2 Claims Administration LLC, P.O. Box 59479, Philadelphia, PA 19102-9479. Phone number: (866)742-4955. David Andrews and white cane Harry. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 18:12:17 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:12:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811030411q69bd9902i8d649eda778a6be4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01A9FB8901004BDA93978157894605E5@Ashley> Beth, We have something in common wich is comforting. Even though I was raised with manners, I had few friends in high school as well. Students were acquaintences but not friends. I did join extra curricular activities like Spanish club but no friends developed. The adults were always more friendly and helpful than students. Beth, I was also in chorus in middle school. I love singing but am not good at it. Can you send me a file with you singing or put it on a website so I can hear you? I also did not go to the social things like dances and shop with friends. That is why I suggested these things and you can do them with friends if you have them. They are: 1. Talk with parents and teachers about how to act and manners. 2. Role play some situations. 3. Parents can take their children to such gatherings for practice. For instance my father invited me to his holiday work party. I learned much by just doing them. For instance my parents took me to church, fancy restaurants occassionally, I got invited to a lion's club meeting and saw how it was conducted like Robert's Rules, and public places. For instance although not with friends I went with family including my older siblings to the mall, restaurants including buffets, movies, church, concerts, and amusement parks. I went more places but you get the picture. So Beth, although we may not have friends I think parents can foster good manners and expose their children to many life experiences so they learn in those settings. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching band and chorus. That was it. Beth On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Arielle, > > I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along > with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and > say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback > is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue > you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>situations. >> >>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>time so they're not late, etc. >> >>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>situations and building connections with others—rather than just >>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>Arielle >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From JFreeh at nfb.org Mon Nov 3 18:12:48 2008 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:12:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Terry Bradshaw to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Public Relations Specialist National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Terry Bradshaw to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Baltimore, Maryland (November 3, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Braille literacy, announced today that Terry Bradshaw, Hall of Fame NFL quarterback and current football analyst and co-host of FOX NFL Sunday, will serve as a National Ambassador for Braille literacy. As an ambassador, Terry will help advance the NFB's Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, a national initiative to promote the importance of reading and writing Braille for blind children and adults. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of the design of a commemorative coin to be minted in 2009 in recognition of the two hundredth anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille (1809-1852), the inventor of the reading and writing code for the blind that bears his name. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have Terry Bradshaw as part of this historic initiative to bring Braille literacy to all of the blind children and adults in America who need it. As one of the most popular personalities in America, Terry Bradshaw's impact as a national spokesperson for Braille literacy will surely be huge. There can be no doubt that the ability to read and write Braille competently and efficiently is the key to education, employment, and success for the blind. Despite the undisputed value of Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind children in the United States are currently learning it. Society would never accept a 10 percent literacy rate among sighted children; it should not accept such an outrageously low literacy rate among the blind. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, with the support of influential Americans like Terry Bradshaw, will reverse the downward trend in Braille literacy and ensure that equal opportunities in education and employment are available to all of the nation's blind." Terry Bradshaw said: "I am honored and pleased to serve as a National Ambassador for the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign. I strongly believe in the importance of literacy for everyone, and I am excited to help make a difference in the lives of blind children and adults throughout the country." For more information about the Braille Readers Are Leaders campaign and the Louis Braille commemorative coin, please visit www.braille.org. ### From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Mon Nov 3 18:22:39 2008 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:22:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Make it Matter Message-ID: >>> "Kim Moccia (ADM)" 10/29/2008 10:40 AM >>> Here is an opportunity to recognize someone who makes a difference AND earn $100,000 for a deserving non-profit! Type: Foundations Agency: Reader's Digest Foundation Program: Reader's Digest Foundation "Make it matter" Eligibility: Non-profit organizations Purpose: Make it Matter" is a new initiative of the Reader's Digest Foundation. The Foundation will give away $1 million to nonprofit organizations based on inspiring stories submitted by the public. Every month for ten months, Reader's Digest will choose one individual whose story of giving back serves as an inspiration to others. For each story, the Reader's Digest Foundation will donate $100,000 to a nonprofit organization that is associated either with the story or the cause. These individuals and their stories of giving back will appear every month in the new "Make it Matter" column in Reader's Digest and on rd.com, beginning with the April issue. Name: N/A Deadline: January 01, 2009 Maximum Award: $100,000 per month Number Of Awards: 10 Period: over 10 months 4/08-1/09 More Information: Know anyone making an extraordinary contribution to your community? As announced on The Today Show, tell the Reader's Digest Foundation about them, and the story selected by RDF may be featured in Reader's Digest. Plus, RDF will give $100,000 to a deserving charity in their name. Your stories may also appear on todayshow.com or rd.com. So tell us about the good works below -- or email your story to makeitmatter at rd.com! URL: http://www.efundraising.com/Readers-Digest-Foundation.aspx?partner=grantsalert Kim Moccia Minnesota STAR Program 358 Centennial Office Bldg 658 Cedar Street Saint Paul, MN 55155 651-201-2297 (direct dial) 651-282-6671 (fax) Email: kim.moccia at state.mn.us Web site: www.starprogram.state.mn.us STAR Technology Exchange STARTE reusing assistive technology! www.mnstarte.org From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 3 18:30:15 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:30:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, neither candidate's administration will make things better for the blind community. I'm in the middle of McCain and Obamaas far as who will make a good presidential candidate. A president has so many issues to worry about all over the world including the United States of America and the blindness and disability issues are just one of many ideas on the president's plate. A good president has to help so many people. There is more to a candiate than just the disability. You have to think of the over all candidate views and policies not only disabilities issues makes a good president. Albert > From: jsorozco at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:12:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability policy > > Antonio, > > Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot > realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire > people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector > of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is that > it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to miraculously > make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama if > you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend > will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will > have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight > is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The > generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their > obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the > unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical > reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. > > Joe Orozco > > P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has > hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article you > forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make > evidence, only hearsay. > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability > policy > > Hello Beth, and all, > > I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as you > point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, but > they are surely not aganst the disabled. > > I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a > disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the > concervatives. > > Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not > qualify as plight, I don't know what does. > > So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the > books, and other places to change this number. > > Plitefully yours, > > Antonio > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over > republicandisability policy > > >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts > >>> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >> 9:51 AM >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 From aguimaraes at nbp.org Mon Nov 3 18:35:18 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:35:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisabilitypolicy References: Message-ID: <010801c93de2$ec4a3800$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> About plight, my dictionary defines it as "condition, state; especially a bad state.: No language in my dictionary, the version used in the Franklyn Master Special edition suggests that plight is reserved for those who can not overcome adversity. Turning to the dictionary in the Kurzweil software, plight is defined as "a cituation, especially a bad or unfortunate one." "To give a pledge, one's word of oath for example." "To endanger, put at risk." Again, nothing here directly indicating a lack of reziliency, or inability to overcome adversity. I have provided two pieces that point out why I favor the Obama camp. I have heard McCain refer to the disabled as people with special needs, as pointed out in the recent press release. I do not feel the need to research and present evidence for my every statement, but I know what I hear, and I know what I read. And, from what I hear, and from what I read, I have been able to make a conscious decision on who is best suited to lead America. My mind will likely not change, and neither is Joe Orosco's, or Mika Pikala. We have been politically defined in the same way for years, but I hope we are always able to carry on with maturity, and forceful arguments. I know who I support for president, and I know why I put my weight behind him. It is up to each individual to to the same for themselves. If anyone can show my original posts to be wrong, rather than to point out that it favors one candidate over another, I would reconsider my statements, and political leanings. Again, if McCain has such good record introducing laws on behalf of the NFB, why isn't such general favor for disability issues reflected in this document below? Does the Obama support for disability policy present itself so promenently here because the writer is left-leaning, or because Obama's policies are well-articulated, and generally more benneficial to people with disabilities, and the blind? Are there straight out lies about McCain, misstatements of his positions and voting record, and inflated statements about Obama? If so, what are they? Is this all a matter of perception, or can we trust in imperic data, and one's voting record? Sincerely Antonio Guimaraes ---------------------------------- Sunday, September 21, 2008 This information is set forth in an effort to provide the reader with information about the Presidential candidates' positions concerning people with disabilities. It is not intended as an endorsement of either candidate, and is posted in my private capacity. Watch what they do (and did), not just what they say. Vote for the candidate of your choice, but vote. Please feel free to share this email and add it to your blogs. Marc As we near November 4th, it is increasingly important that voters concerned about people with disabilities are well-informed about the candidates' positions. Each Presidential candidate has put forth positions on issues on their respective websites: McCain/Palen: www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues Obama/Biden: www.barackobama.com/issues Please take a look at each of the websites to learn where the candidates really stand. A review of their respective records in the Senate is also revealing: OBAMA ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES Barack Obama supports full funding of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), early intervention and developmental programs, and expanded college opportunities for students with disabilities. Obama voted for over $44 billion in funding for the IDEA. [SCR 1, Senate Vote #94, 3/22/07] Obama will invest $10 billion per year in early intervention, educational and developmental programs for children between zero and five. His plan will help expand programs such as Early Head Start to serve more children with disabilities. His plan also will encourage states to expand programs for children with disabilities, such as IDEA Part C. [Obama Plan to Empower Americans with Disabilities ] Obama supports increasing opportunities for college students with disabilities. He also will provide more support for these college students. Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Senate bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act (S. 1642) which significantly expands opportunities and supports for individuals with disabilities to attend college and graduate programs. [S.1642, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES John McCain has repeatedly voted against the IDEA even though he claims he supports full funding of it. McCain has repeatedly voted against funding for special education. > McCain repeatedly voted against funding increases for the IDEA. > [H.R.4577, Senate Vote #170, 6/30/00; SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, 3/26/03] > McCain has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy over education funding for > students with disabilities. Specifically, McCain voted against increasing > spending in the amount of $229 billion over 10 years for the IDEA. McCain > also voted against an amendment that would create a reserve fund of $73 > billion in IDEA funding. The spending would have been made possible by > reducing tax cuts. [SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, 3/26/03; SCR 23, Senate > Vote #70, 3/21/03] McCain did not co-sponsor reauthorization of the Higher Education Act (S. 1642). He also did not vote on passage of the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act in the 110th Congress. [S.1642, 110th Congress; S. 1642, Senate Vote #275, 7/24/07] OBAMA ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Choice Act of 2007. Obama believes that individuals should be able to make their own choices for their living arrangements and live independently in their communities. [S.799, 110th Congress] Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Living Assistance Services and Support (CLASS) Act Of 2007. This bill would help individuals with functional impairments pay for services that they need to maximize their independence. [S.1758, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY McCain strongly opposes the Community Choice Act. Asked about the Community Choice Act at a Town Hall in Denver, McCain said "The Community Choice Act is not a piece of legislation that I support." [McCain Town Hall , 7/7/08] OBAMA ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING Obama opposes a freeze on social services spending for people with disabilities. Obama voted against capping non-defense spending which means that social service spending for people with disabilities could continue to meet their needs. In 2005, Obama voted against the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense, non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] MCCAIN ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING McCain promises that he will cap non-defense spending for at least one year, meaning that social services spending for people with disabilities will be capped as well. McCain voted in favor of capping non-defense spending. In 2005, McCain voted for the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense and non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] McCain proposed a freeze of discretionary spending as illustrated when he said, "As president, I will also order a prompt and thorough review of the budgets of every federal program, department, and agency. While that top-to-bottom review is underway, we will institute a one-year pause in discretionary spending increases with the necessary exemption of military spending and veterans' benefits." [McCain Remarks on the Economy at Carnegie Mellon University, 4/15/08 ] OBAMA ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama will sign universal health care into law by the end of his first term in office, and he has supported expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program ("SCHIP") and health care programs for people with disabilities, children, and veterans. Under Obama's plan to provide universal health insurance, insurance companies will not be able to stop individuals from getting coverage even if they have pre-existing conditions and disabilities. Obama's plan allows individuals and businesses to purchase public or private health coverage through a national health insurance exchange. Obama's plan would make health care more affordable and accessible to all Americans, particularly individuals who have been denied coverage in the private market due to a pre-existing condition or disability. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities ] Obama is a co-sponsor of ending the Medicare Waiting Period Act of 2007 (S.2102). Before they can get Medicare coverage, people with disabilities must first receive Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) for 24 months. Due to the 24-month Medicare waiting period, an estimated 400,000 Americans with disabilities are uninsured and many more are underinsured at a time in their lives when they need health coverage the most. During this waiting period, many individuals develop secondary conditions, their health status worsens and many die. Obama supports legislation that would phase out this harmful waiting period and provide individuals with health insurance. [S.2102, 110th Congress] Obama supported expanded health insurance for children. In 2007, Obama voted to reauthorize the SCHIP at over $60 billion for five years. Two children who live with a single parent who makes $51,510 would have access to health insurance coverage under SCHIP. The bill would provide $100 million in new grants to fund state outreach and enrollment efforts and allocate $49 million for a demonstration project to streamline the enrollment process for low-income children already eligible for coverage. [HR 976, Senate Vote #307, 8/2/07] Obama supported assuring accessible health care to people with disabilities by co-sponsoring the Promoting Wellness for Individuals with Disabilities Act (S.1050) The bill would require the U.S. Access Board to establish access standards for all diagnostic equipment (examination tables, x-ray, mammography and other radiological equipment, etc.). It also educates physicians and dentists by requiring that medical schools, dental schools, and their residency programs provide training to improve competency and clinical skills in providing care to patients with disabilities (including those with intellectual disabilities) as a condition of receiving federal funds. Finally, it establishes a national wellness grant program which will authorize funding for programs or activities for smoking cessation, weight control, nutrition or fitness that are tailored to the needs of individuals with disabilities and authorize funding for preventive health screening programs for individuals wi! th disabilities to reduce the incidence of secondary conditions. [S.1050, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES McCain's health care plan does not prohibit discrimination against individuals with pre-existing conditions and disabilities. McCain's healthcare plan would replace the existing tax exclusion for employer-sponsored health coverage with a refundable tax credit for all Americans as an incentive to purchase health insurance. However, many individuals with disabilities are denied coverage or unable to afford coverage in the private market due to pre-existing conditions and disabilities. While McCain's plan would work with states to develop best practice models in expanding coverage to individuals who have been denied coverage, it would not prohibit discrimination. [Washington Post, 4/30/08 ] McCain opposed reauthorizing SCHIP and providing insurance for millions of uninsured children. According to Knight Ridder, "The [2007] Senate proposal would provide coverage to 3.2 million" uninsured children and renew coverage for the 6 million children already covered by the program. The legislation passed 68-31. [H.R. 976, Vote #307 , 8/2/07; Knight Ridder, 8/2/07] VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES: Obama: The Disabled America Veterans (DAV) gave Obama an 80% rating in 2006. [Project Vote Smart] Obama supported expanding health care for veterans. > In 2005, Obama voted for providing an additional $500 million per year > for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. [S.2020, > Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > In 2006, Obama voted in favor of adding $430 million for outpatient and > inpatient health care and treatment for veterans. Nearly half of the > military servicemen and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will require > health care services for the physical and psychological traumas of war, > yet the Bush administration and Republican-led Congress have underfunded > the Veterans Administration's medical services by at least $1.2 billion > for 2007 alone. And, this was the second consecutive year they had done > so. [H.R.4939, Senate Vote #98, 4/26/06; The Independent Budget, A Budget > for Veterans by Veterans, 2/10/06; Newsweek, 1/19/06] Obama voted for $2 million for research of traumatic brain injuries to improve imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] McCain: McCain opposed expanding health care for veterans. > In 2005, McCain voted against providing an additional $500 million per > year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. > [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > In 2006, McCain was one of 13 senators who voted against adding $430 > million for outpatient and inpatient health care and treatment for > veterans. Amendment passed 84-16. [H.R.4939, Vote #98 > > , 4/26/06] > McCain voted against $2 million of funding for research of traumatic > brain injuries. McCain rejected legislation that would help improve > imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current > technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. > 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > McCain voted with the Disabled American Veterans 20% of the time. > Factcheck.org "However, he is correct in that McCain doesn't have a > perfect score with DAV (Disabled American Veterans), a group of 1.3 > million disabled veterans that supports more funding for veterans health > care. McCain has a 20 percent record of voting the way DAV would like him > to in 2006...Senators were evaluated on five votes for amendments that > would have increased funding for veterans' health care." [Factcheck.org > > ] OBAMA ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama strongly supports the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) Restoration Act. Indeed, he signed on as an original co-sponsor of the Senate version of the ADA Restoration Act. [S.1050, 110th Congress] Obama will appoint judges who exhibit empathy for individuals with disabilities. "Barack Obama will appoint judges and justices who respect Congress' role as a co-equal, democratically elected branch of government and who exhibit empathy with what it means to be an American with a disability" [Obama Plan To Empower Individuals With Disabilities ] MCCAIN ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES While McCain has also co-sponsored the ADA Restoration Act, he has promised to appoint judges like those who interpreted the ADA narrowly and deprived millions of people with disabilities of their civil rights. McCain said that as president, he would "appoint strict constructionist judges." [AP, 8/7/07] "In an address at Wake Forest University, McCain pledged to nominate jurists who believe 'there are clear limits to the scope of judicial power'...By way of example, McCain said he would look for people in the cast of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., and his friend the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist. He called them 'jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/7/08 ] OBAMA ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY In 2007, Obama voted against increasing Medicare Part D premiums for beneficiaries making over $80,000 annually. Obama voted against the Ensign Amendment that would require Medicare prescription drugs beneficiaries with annual incomes over $80,000 and couples with annual incomes over $160,000 to pay a larger share of their Medicare Part D premium.[SCR 21, Senate Vote #93, 3/22/07] Obama opposed means testing for Medicare. In response to a NCPSSM questionnaire, Obama said, "The bill added 'means testing' to Part B of Medicare, requiring individuals with incomes over $80,000 to pay gradually higher premiums. This undermines the basic premise of Medicare as an insurance program for all Americans and could cause wealthier and healthier people to leave the Medicare program." [NCPSSM Questionnaire; Citizen Action Illinois Questionnaire, SEIU Questionnaire] MCCAIN ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY McCain voted to raise the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. In 1997, McCain voted in favor of raising the eligibility age for receiving Medicare from 65 to 67 with the change being phased in between 2003 and 2027. The motion passed 62-38. [S 947, Vote #112 , 6/24/97] OBAMA ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY Obama is a long-time supporter of mental health parity legislation, having passed the Illinois Mental Health Parity Law. He also co-sponsored the Mental Health Parity Act of 2007. Obama co-sponsored a bill to amend the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) and the Public Health Service Act to require a group health plan that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health benefits to ensure that: (1) the financial requirements applicable to such mental health benefits are no more restrictive than those of substantially all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including deductibles and copayments; and (2) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental health benefits are no more restrictive than those applied to substantially all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including limits on the frequency of treatments or similar limits on the scope or duration of treatment. The bill prohibi! ted the plan from establishing separate cost sharing requirements that are applicable only with respect to mental health benefits. [110th, S.558, Introduced 2/12/07; HELP Report, 4/11/07] Obama co-sponsored and voted for a mental health parity bill that requires coverage for serious mental illnesses to be provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases. [92nd GA; SB 1341; 2001; Signed into law 7/27/01, PA 92-0185] MCCAIN ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY McCain's health care plan would eliminate the mental health parity requirements in 45 states. [Wall Street Journal, 10/11/07; SOURCE: National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/hmolaws.htm ), accessed 7/30/07; Council for Affordable Health Insurance, accessed 7/30/07 (http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/MandatePub2007.pdf )] OBAMA ON AUTISM Obama will increase federal funding for outreach and support services for people on the autism spectrum. Specifically, "Obama will seek to increase federal ASD funding for research, treatment, screenings, public awareness, and support services to $1 billion annually by the end of his first term in office. Obama will also continue to work with parents, physicians, providers, researchers, and schools to create opportunities and effective solu! tions for people with ASD." [Obama Plan Supporting Americans with Autism Spectrum Disorders ] Obama is a co-sponsor of the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937) which would improve services and supports for individuals with autism spectrum disorder and their families. It would build upon programs within the Developmental Disabilities Act to increase interdisciplinary training of professionals, development and dissemination of evidence-based autism treatments, interventions, supports and services for children and adults, and protection and advocacy. [S.937, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON AUTISM McCain has not taken a leading role to expand services and supports for people with autism. McCain has not co-sponsored the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937). [S.937, 110th Congress] McCain says he will work to advance federal autism research. "As President, John McCain will ! work to advance federal research into autism, promote early screening, and identify better treatment options, while providing support for children with autism so that they may reach their full potential." [McCain Statement on Combating Autism in America ] OBAMA ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama supports fully funding the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) so that we can ensure all polling places are accessible. His administration would also assure better enforcement of federal disability rights laws - from HAVA to the Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act to the ADA - to make sure the right of Americans with disabilities to vote is fully protected. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities ] MCCAIN ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES In 2002, McCain voted repeatedly against the ! Help America Vote Act, which was offered to correct problems in the election system and impose detailed voting-procedure requirements on the states. McCain voted for final passage of the bill. [S.565, Senate] Marc Dubin, Esq. Florida Coordinator Obama For President National Disability Policy Committee www.barackobama.com/issues http://www.barackobama.com/issues/disabilities Register to Vote at http://www.voteforchange.com To view John McCain's policy positions, visit http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/ 305-896-3000 Direct Fax: 877-731-3030 mdubin at pobox.com Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee www.disabilitylawcommittee.com Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights Section, Washington, D.C. 1992-2005 _______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisabilitypolicy > Antonio, > > Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot > realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire > people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector > of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is > that > it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to > miraculously > make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama > if > you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend > will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will > have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight > is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The > generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their > obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the > unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical > reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. > > Joe Orozco > > P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has > hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article > you > forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make > evidence, only hearsay. > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James > M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage > overrepublicandisability > policy > > Hello Beth, and all, > > I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as > you > point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, > but > they are surely not aganst the disabled. > > I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a > disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the > concervatives. > > Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not > qualify as plight, I don't know what does. > > So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the > books, and other places to change this number. > > Plitefully yours, > > Antonio > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over > republicandisability policy > > >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint >>> judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in >>> concepts > >>> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs >>> are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice >>> organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >> 9:51 AM >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Nov 3 19:45:21 2008 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:45:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability policy Message-ID: Antonio and Others, One of the things that we are going to have to really work on if Obama is elected is the idea that many Democrats have that "the disabled" can be treated as one group with one solution. In my experience, it is difficult to really link either party as good or bad with respect to blind people. I think it is fair to say that Democrats tend to be more likely to spend money on problems that address the disabled, but they have also tended to take a broad brush approach that downplays the different needs of various disabled groups. Republicans, on the other hand, spend less money and can sometimes be more paternalistic in their outlook and less likely to push businesses to help us, but sometimes recognize more completely the need for specialized services because they tend to be more geared to looking at individuals than groups. Of course, individuals in either group can defy the stereotype. In the end, what a given administration does will depend, in my opinion, more on how effectively we work with them than which party they belong to. There are many other reasons one may want to vote for one party versus the other, but I really don't think that voting for any candidate because he or she will, by themselves, change our lives makes a lot of sense. It just doesn't work that way. I say this as one who supports Obama in general, knowing we may have work to do if he wins. On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:12:06 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote: >Antonio, >Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot >realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire >people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector >of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is that >it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to miraculously >make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama if >you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend >will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will >have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight >is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The >generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their >obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the >unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical >reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. >Joe Orozco >P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has >hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article you >forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make >evidence, only hearsay. >"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. >Barrie >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Antonio Guimaraes >Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisability >policy >Hello Beth, and all, >I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as you >point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, but >they are surely not aganst the disabled. >I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a >disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the >concervatives. >Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not >qualify as plight, I don't know what does. >So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the >books, and other places to change this number. >Plitefully yours, >Antonio >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over >republicandisability policy >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in concepts >>> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >> 9:51 AM >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 19:50:20 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:50:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <7C7A96380CE44289A559CC06A3B53FEA@Ashley> References: <7C7A96380CE44289A559CC06A3B53FEA@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031150s7efeef30j689e3bd7f9adf5e4@mail.gmail.com> As far as answering questions about etiquette at weddings goes, I believe one thing you have to do is stand while the bride and groom are dancing their first dance. It's like being in a circle. Interestingly enough, I've gone to two weddings in my lifetime. Beth On 11/3/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > > Great post. I think social skills and etiquette is so broad that it would > be difficult to state on a website in words. One challenge in explaining is > that what is appropriate in one setting is not in another. Great point > about blind kids/teens knowlege of social norms is not enough. They have > to be motivated to comply with them. > >From experience its challenging to know what to expect and how to act in > some situations because I cannot see how others are acting. Manners and > behavior is often learned by observational learning, meaning you see it and > imitate it. Blind and low vision kids cannot see this so have to be told or > ask about it or listen closely and figure it out. From experience casual > settings such as school and eating in a cafeteria are not problematic. > Where I encounter questions and sometimes don't know what to expect is in > more formal settings. These include: church services, weddings, more formal > gatherings such as receptions and interviews. I wasn't sure how much > emotion to display or how much to say sometimes. > So yes parents and teachers need to address this more. > I know sighted people feel the same way and may be nervous about new > situations but I think its magnified when you can't look around and learn. > > Three examples: > 1. I was at a reception after a workshop as part of a government > internship. It was crowded and there was food. Many leaders had name tags > on. I did not know who to approach and what to say. Finally, wanting food > from the counter, I approached someone who was not in a conversation > requesting they tell me what food was available and explain the setup; after > all its very rude to touch food for public use. Then after eating I just > listened and joined a conversation. But I really didn't know how to blend > in in a crowd of mainly strangers. > > 2. In interviews, I am not sure how much info to give. If there are > multiple people in the room whom do you make eye contact with? Probably > just the speaker. > Interviews are scary for everyone and hopefully will come with practice I'll > get better. > > 3. At weddings, I know you just sit and watch the service. But afterward I > don't know what to do. Whose hands to shake? How much do I tell them? > Also every service is different? When do you stand? Sometimes they > announce it but if not I just listen for everyone else rising and join in. > > So if you have etiquette tips for my three situations please share. > > As to motivating kids and teaching good question. Here are my ideas: > 1. Talk about it. > 2. Then role play. This is feasible if its a one to one setting or small > group; you cannot simulate a whole crowd of people. > 3. After role playing discuss ways to improve and practice more. > 4. There are general etiquette classes out there for everyone and a blind > person can attend one of them. > 5. Parents need to expose their kids at age appropriate times to events and > learn in real settings so they are not confused later. For instance > encourage them to go to dances; take them to formal gatherings such as > employee holiday parties. My father took me to some of his work parties; of > course the whole family was invited so it wasn't just a special arrangement > for me. > 6. To learn business etiquette there are a few ideas. Talk about it. Have > the teen job shadow someone. Maybe the teen can even visit the parent's > place of employment for a few hours. Just asking questions of employees in > your field is a way to gather a lot. I think there are books out there on > business skills too; I've read some on interviewing skills at least. > > HTH, > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:43 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > > Hi all, > > I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high > school students to understand when transitioning to college and > beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is > that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the > situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is > more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to > be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting > may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what > I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and > "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those > situations. > > I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and > sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good > intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public > behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing > what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order > to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be > motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their > behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks > his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that > it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's > inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply > doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for > doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the > situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for > picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not > pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing > it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside > his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of > etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, > self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors > commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so > habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop > they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a > behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's > unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated > to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. > (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations > with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and > still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a > different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the > negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there > are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, > or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their > time so they're not late, etc. > > That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their > social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), > but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than > sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've > been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other > people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis > should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about > conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social > situations and building connections with others—rather than just > telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good > behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but > eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to > observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that > following social norms and initiating connections with others makes > them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > > So how do we do this? Any ideas? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3575 (20081031) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 19:56:54 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:56:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> References: <20081103135615.SEGP13158.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a successful date and keeping that significant other is having good social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he wouldn't give up. Beth On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, > > Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this > is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found > that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I > told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I > my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them > over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school > still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that > way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to > the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on > Thursday and catch up? > > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill > level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other > hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they > don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other > hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I > know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high > GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too > busy! > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hope Paulos > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > I was in the same boat, Beth. I totally understand what you > mean. I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school. > She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me > or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them > instead. There were very few times when she would invite to go > places with her other friends. I guess she didn't accept the > blindness. > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >>I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with > friends >>is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the > friends in >>the first place. I had practically no friends in high school > that I >>could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa > marching >>band and chorus. That was it. >>Beth > >>On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>> Arielle, > >>> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is > needed along >>> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us > aside and >>> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, > non-judgmental feedback >>> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and > what cue >>> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. > >>> Joseph > >>> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman > wrote: >>>>Hi all, > >>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >>>>situations. > >>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can > become so >>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't > care, >>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >>>>time so they're not late, etc. > >>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >>>>Arielle > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj > oseph%40gmail.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 19:59:42 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:59:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <01A9FB8901004BDA93978157894605E5@Ashley> References: <20081103084415.GD1848@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811030411q69bd9902i8d649eda778a6be4@mail.gmail.com> <01A9FB8901004BDA93978157894605E5@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031159h6ac0bd6ey84df33a260535e52@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Ashley. I don't think I have a file of myself singing, but maybe one of these days, I'll see if I can put a video up on FaceBook. Do you have a FaceBook? Beth On 11/3/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > > We have something in common wich is comforting. Even though I was raised > with manners, I had few friends in high school as well. Students were > acquaintences but not friends. > I did join extra curricular activities like Spanish club but no friends > developed. The adults were always more friendly and helpful than students. > Beth, I was also in chorus in middle school. I love singing but am not good > at it. Can you send me a file with you singing or put it on a website so I > can hear you? > > I also did not go to the social things like dances and shop with friends. > That is why I suggested these things and you can do them with friends if you > have them. They are: > 1. Talk with parents and teachers about how to act and manners. > 2. Role play some situations. > 3. Parents can take their children to such gatherings for practice. For > instance my father invited me to his holiday work party. I learned much by > just doing them. For instance my parents took me to church, fancy > restaurants occassionally, I got invited to a lion's club meeting and saw > how it was conducted like Robert's Rules, and public places. For instance > although not with friends I went with family including my older siblings to > the mall, restaurants including buffets, movies, church, concerts, and > amusement parks. I went more places but you get the picture. > So Beth, although we may not have friends I think parents can foster good > manners and expose their children to many life experiences so they learn in > those settings. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > > I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends > is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in > the first place. I had practically no friends in high school that I > could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching > band and chorus. That was it. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Arielle, >> >> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is needed along >> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and >> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, non-judgmental feedback >> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and what cue >> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>Hi all, >>> >>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high >>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is >>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the >>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is >>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to >>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting >>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what >>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and >>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those >>>situations. >>> >>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing >>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order >>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be >>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who picks >>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that >>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told it's >>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for >>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the >>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for >>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not >>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing >>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside >>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors >>>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so >>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop >>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a >>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated >>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it. >>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from conversations >>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and >>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the >>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there >>>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care, >>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their >>>time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their >>>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge), >>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than >>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've >>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other >>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis >>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social >>>situations and building connections with others—rather than just >>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good >>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to >>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that >>>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes >>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>>Arielle >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3575 (20081031) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 20:54:14 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:54:14 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <20081103205414.GA4513@yumi.bluecherry.net> This can be discreet enough that I didn't know they did this and I was at one of our training centers for eight months. *grin* Joseph On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 06:51:33AM -0500, Hope Paulos wrote: > Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a > code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person > exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is what > the nfb centers do. > > Hope and Beignet From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 21:13:02 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:13:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081103211302.GB4513@yumi.bluecherry.net> As a matter of etiquette, I refuse to wear the cheap talking watches that are so common. They're loud and obnoxious in any but the most noisy environments and are totally unsuited to the average workplace. Invest in a good Braille watch, if you want to fit in with professional circles. Failing that, a note taker or similar device can be used together. I use my watch for approximation of the time (which is what you usually want anyway), and check my cell phone if I need anything more accurate. My watch is analog, intended for sighties, and quite high contrast with no numbers or markings on the face of any kind. A good Braille watch will serve a person just as well. Joseph On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 01:57:00AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >I also notice people checking talking watches at inappropriate times, or >having their rooster alarms go off at inappropriate times. Or some people >talking over others. Obviously sighted people can do this too, but I think I >notice it more in the blind because I critique them more. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Robert Spangler >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:04 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that >totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both >sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of >inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more >among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. > People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially >acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for >their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will >work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. >It's sad but unfortunately true. > >I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their >phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room >and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the >inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a >blind majority. > >Thanks, >Robby >Hope Paulos wrote: >> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a >> wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of >> others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several >> "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke >> my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my >> grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so >> proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she >> insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >> inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when >> people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even >> know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the >> people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their >> eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to >> not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not >> sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it >> in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i >> apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that >> would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in >> age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these >> behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time >> for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >> been extinguished fully. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >> high >>> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >> sheet is >>> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >> the >>> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >> there is >>> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >> to >>> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >> setting >>> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >> Really what >>> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >> and >>> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >> those >>> situations. >> >>> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >> knowing >>> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >> order >>> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >> be >>> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >> picks >>> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >> that >>> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >> it's >>> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >> him for >>> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >> the >>> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >> for >>> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >> not >>> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >> doing >>> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >> inside >>> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >> behaviors >>> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >> become so >>> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >> stop >>> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >> of a >>> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >> motivated >>> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >> it. >>> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >> conversations >>> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >> and >>> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >> the >>> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >> there >>> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >> care, >>> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >> their >>> time so they're not late, etc. >> >>> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >> their >>> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >> (knowledge), >>> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >> than >>> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >> they've >>> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >> other >>> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >> emphasis >>> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >> social >>> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >> good >>> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >> to >>> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >> experience that >>> following social norms and initiating connections with others >> makes >>> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>> So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine..edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm >ail.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >ronto.ca > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 23:28:08 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 18:28:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy In-Reply-To: <010801c93de2$ec4a3800$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <20A30DE319264A73A1AE7688EE9E4DAB@MonkeyPaw> Antonio, Wiktionary.org defines "plight" as the following: *Predicament: a situation from which extrication is difficult especially an unpleasant or trying one; "finds himself in a most awkward predicament"; "the woeful plight of homeless people"* I believe the reference to homeless people highlights the popular connotation of the word, the same popular connotation you are exercising in attempting to make your point. In my post I said the word, and therefore its connotation, are reserved for people unable to overcome adversity. I did not claim to be offering a literal definition. If we look at the definition above, I would argue that Jewish people once experienced a so-called plight. I would argue that Native-Americans once experienced a plight. African-American slaves, refugees from war-torn African countries...Those people are victims of the type of plight you are attempting to associate with the blind. Blind people have not been socially degraded. The odds for the blind are high, but at no point have they been stacked up so high that no amount of education could ever hope to change the public's perception that the blind are equal human beings. If we were holding this discussion in the midst of a third world country, I would grant you the perception, but we live in a country that has opened doors for the blind and other people with disabilities despite all its legal and legislative shortcomings. Unlike the aforementioned groups, the blind are not inhibited by a social barrier so immense as to appear immovable. You've already offered this document outlining the comparison of Obama to McCain before. I believe it heavily favors Obama despite its claims to be neutral, but the writer earned my respect for taking the time to build a case on more than ideological affiliation. The author is voting as an informed individual who can support his choice with more than emotional claims about which candidate best fits his perception of what a candidate ought to be doing, and I guess when it comes down to it, I wish you could have built a similar case to convince us that the issue of disabilities is crucial enough to singularly consider in tomorrow's election and that Obama is the only logical solution to the alleged problems you see with the disability community. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. Build your own solid platform in support of your candidate so that naysayers like myself cannot overwhelm you with spreading arguments. Now, I'm not up for writing another novel. Unless you post something completely off the wall, I think I've bored you long enough. Steve pretty much summed up the discussion far more elegantly than I could have managed. If Obama wins, and statistically it is difficult to predict to the contrary, I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever you desire when I next see you. If the Mac really does come back, you can spot me a Long Island or two. Despite our difference of opinions, I'm glad we had the discussion. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy About plight, my dictionary defines it as "condition, state; especially a bad state.: No language in my dictionary, the version used in the Franklyn Master Special edition suggests that plight is reserved for those who can not overcome adversity. Turning to the dictionary in the Kurzweil software, plight is defined as "a cituation, especially a bad or unfortunate one." "To give a pledge, one's word of oath for example." "To endanger, put at risk." Again, nothing here directly indicating a lack of reziliency, or inability to overcome adversity. I have provided two pieces that point out why I favor the Obama camp. I have heard McCain refer to the disabled as people with special needs, as pointed out in the recent press release. I do not feel the need to research and present evidence for my every statement, but I know what I hear, and I know what I read. And, from what I hear, and from what I read, I have been able to make a conscious decision on who is best suited to lead America. My mind will likely not change, and neither is Joe Orosco's, or Mika Pikala. We have been politically defined in the same way for years, but I hope we are always able to carry on with maturity, and forceful arguments. I know who I support for president, and I know why I put my weight behind him. It is up to each individual to to the same for themselves. If anyone can show my original posts to be wrong, rather than to point out that it favors one candidate over another, I would reconsider my statements, and political leanings. Again, if McCain has such good record introducing laws on behalf of the NFB, why isn't such general favor for disability issues reflected in this document below? Does the Obama support for disability policy present itself so promenently here because the writer is left-leaning, or because Obama's policies are well-articulated, and generally more benneficial to people with disabilities, and the blind? Are there straight out lies about McCain, misstatements of his positions and voting record, and inflated statements about Obama? If so, what are they? Is this all a matter of perception, or can we trust in imperic data, and one's voting record? Sincerely Antonio Guimaraes ---------------------------------- Sunday, September 21, 2008 This information is set forth in an effort to provide the reader with information about the Presidential candidates' positions concerning people with disabilities. It is not intended as an endorsement of either candidate, and is posted in my private capacity. Watch what they do (and did), not just what they say. Vote for the candidate of your choice, but vote. Please feel free to share this email and add it to your blogs. Marc As we near November 4th, it is increasingly important that voters concerned about people with disabilities are well-informed about the candidates' positions. Each Presidential candidate has put forth positions on issues on their respective websites: McCain/Palen: www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues Obama/Biden: www.barackobama.com/issues Please take a look at each of the websites to learn where the candidates really stand. A review of their respective records in the Senate is also revealing: OBAMA ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES Barack Obama supports full funding of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), early intervention and developmental programs, and expanded college opportunities for students with disabilities. Obama voted for over $44 billion in funding for the IDEA. [SCR 1, Senate Vote #94, 3/22/07] Obama will invest $10 billion per year in early intervention, educational and developmental programs for children between zero and five. His plan will help expand programs such as Early Head Start to serve more children with disabilities. His plan also will encourage states to expand programs for children with disabilities, such as IDEA Part C. [Obama Plan to Empower Americans with Disabilities ] Obama supports increasing opportunities for college students with disabilities. He also will provide more support for these college students. Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Senate bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act (S. 1642) which significantly expands opportunities and supports for individuals with disabilities to attend college and graduate programs. [S.1642, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES John McCain has repeatedly voted against the IDEA even though he claims he supports full funding of it. McCain has repeatedly voted against funding for special education. > McCain repeatedly voted against funding increases for the IDEA. > [H.R.4577, Senate Vote #170, 6/30/00; SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, > 3/26/03] > McCain has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy over education funding for > students with disabilities. Specifically, McCain voted against > increasing spending in the amount of $229 billion over 10 years for > the IDEA. McCain also voted against an amendment that would create a > reserve fund of $73 billion in IDEA funding. The spending would have > been made possible by reducing tax cuts. [SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, > 3/26/03; SCR 23, Senate Vote #70, 3/21/03] McCain did not co-sponsor reauthorization of the Higher Education Act (S. 1642). He also did not vote on passage of the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act in the 110th Congress. [S.1642, 110th Congress; S. 1642, Senate Vote #275, 7/24/07] OBAMA ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Choice Act of 2007. Obama believes that individuals should be able to make their own choices for their living arrangements and live independently in their communities. [S.799, 110th Congress] Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Living Assistance Services and Support (CLASS) Act Of 2007. This bill would help individuals with functional impairments pay for services that they need to maximize their independence. [S.1758, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY McCain strongly opposes the Community Choice Act. Asked about the Community Choice Act at a Town Hall in Denver, McCain said "The Community Choice Act is not a piece of legislation that I support." [McCain Town Hall , 7/7/08] OBAMA ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING Obama opposes a freeze on social services spending for people with disabilities. Obama voted against capping non-defense spending which means that social service spending for people with disabilities could continue to meet their needs. In 2005, Obama voted against the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense, non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] MCCAIN ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING McCain promises that he will cap non-defense spending for at least one year, meaning that social services spending for people with disabilities will be capped as well. McCain voted in favor of capping non-defense spending. In 2005, McCain voted for the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense and non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] McCain proposed a freeze of discretionary spending as illustrated when he said, "As president, I will also order a prompt and thorough review of the budgets of every federal program, department, and agency. While that top-to-bottom review is underway, we will institute a one-year pause in discretionary spending increases with the necessary exemption of military spending and veterans' benefits." [McCain Remarks on the Economy at Carnegie Mellon University, 4/15/08 ] OBAMA ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama will sign universal health care into law by the end of his first term in office, and he has supported expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program ("SCHIP") and health care programs for people with disabilities, children, and veterans. Under Obama's plan to provide universal health insurance, insurance companies will not be able to stop individuals from getting coverage even if they have pre-existing conditions and disabilities. Obama's plan allows individuals and businesses to purchase public or private health coverage through a national health insurance exchange. Obama's plan would make health care more affordable and accessible to all Americans, particularly individuals who have been denied coverage in the private market due to a pre-existing condition or disability. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities ] Obama is a co-sponsor of ending the Medicare Waiting Period Act of 2007 (S.2102). Before they can get Medicare coverage, people with disabilities must first receive Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) for 24 months. Due to the 24-month Medicare waiting period, an estimated 400,000 Americans with disabilities are uninsured and many more are underinsured at a time in their lives when they need health coverage the most. During this waiting period, many individuals develop secondary conditions, their health status worsens and many die. Obama supports legislation that would phase out this harmful waiting period and provide individuals with health insurance. [S.2102, 110th Congress] Obama supported expanded health insurance for children. In 2007, Obama voted to reauthorize the SCHIP at over $60 billion for five years. Two children who live with a single parent who makes $51,510 would have access to health insurance coverage under SCHIP. The bill would provide $100 million in new grants to fund state outreach and enrollment efforts and allocate $49 million for a demonstration project to streamline the enrollment process for low-income children already eligible for coverage. [HR 976, Senate Vote #307, 8/2/07] Obama supported assuring accessible health care to people with disabilities by co-sponsoring the Promoting Wellness for Individuals with Disabilities Act (S.1050) The bill would require the U.S. Access Board to establish access standards for all diagnostic equipment (examination tables, x-ray, mammography and other radiological equipment, etc.). It also educates physicians and dentists by requiring that medical schools, dental schools, and their residency programs provide training to improve competency and clinical skills in providing care to patients with disabilities (including those with intellectual disabilities) as a condition of receiving federal funds. Finally, it establishes a national wellness grant program which will authorize funding for programs or activities for smoking cessation, weight control, nutrition or fitness that are tailored to the needs of individuals with disabilities and authorize funding for preventive health screening programs for individuals wi! th disabilities to reduce the incidence of secondary conditions. [S.1050, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES McCain's health care plan does not prohibit discrimination against individuals with pre-existing conditions and disabilities. McCain's healthcare plan would replace the existing tax exclusion for employer-sponsored health coverage with a refundable tax credit for all Americans as an incentive to purchase health insurance. However, many individuals with disabilities are denied coverage or unable to afford coverage in the private market due to pre-existing conditions and disabilities. While McCain's plan would work with states to develop best practice models in expanding coverage to individuals who have been denied coverage, it would not prohibit discrimination. [Washington Post, 4/30/08 ] McCain opposed reauthorizing SCHIP and providing insurance for millions of uninsured children. According to Knight Ridder, "The [2007] Senate proposal would provide coverage to 3.2 million" uninsured children and renew coverage for the 6 million children already covered by the program. The legislation passed 68-31. [H.R. 976, Vote #307 , 8/2/07; Knight Ridder, 8/2/07] VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES: Obama: The Disabled America Veterans (DAV) gave Obama an 80% rating in 2006. [Project Vote Smart] Obama supported expanding health care for veterans. > In 2005, Obama voted for providing an additional $500 million per > year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. > [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > In 2006, Obama voted in favor of adding $430 million for outpatient > and inpatient health care and treatment for veterans. Nearly half of > the military servicemen and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will > require health care services for the physical and psychological > traumas of war, yet the Bush administration and Republican-led > Congress have underfunded the Veterans Administration's medical > services by at least $1.2 billion for 2007 alone. And, this was the > second consecutive year they had done so. [H.R.4939, Senate Vote #98, > 4/26/06; The Independent Budget, A Budget for Veterans by Veterans, > 2/10/06; Newsweek, 1/19/06] Obama voted for $2 million for research of traumatic brain injuries to improve imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] McCain: McCain opposed expanding health care for veterans. > In 2005, McCain voted against providing an additional $500 million > per year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. > [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > In 2006, McCain was one of 13 senators who voted against adding $430 > million for outpatient and inpatient health care and treatment for > veterans. Amendment passed 84-16. [H.R.4939, Vote #98 > cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00098> > , 4/26/06] > McCain voted against $2 million of funding for research of traumatic > brain injuries. McCain rejected legislation that would help improve > imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current > technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. > 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > McCain voted with the Disabled American Veterans 20% of the time. > Factcheck.org "However, he is correct in that McCain doesn't have a > perfect score with DAV (Disabled American Veterans), a group of 1.3 > million disabled veterans that supports more funding for veterans health > care. McCain has a 20 percent record of voting the way DAV would like him > to in 2006...Senators were evaluated on five votes for amendments that > would have increased funding for veterans' health care." [Factcheck.org > > ] OBAMA ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama strongly supports the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) Restoration Act. Indeed, he signed on as an original co-sponsor of the Senate version of the ADA Restoration Act. [S.1050, 110th Congress] Obama will appoint judges who exhibit empathy for individuals with disabilities. "Barack Obama will appoint judges and justices who respect Congress' role as a co-equal, democratically elected branch of government and who exhibit empathy with what it means to be an American with a disability" [Obama Plan To Empower Individuals With Disabilities ] MCCAIN ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES While McCain has also co-sponsored the ADA Restoration Act, he has promised to appoint judges like those who interpreted the ADA narrowly and deprived millions of people with disabilities of their civil rights. McCain said that as president, he would "appoint strict constructionist judges." [AP, 8/7/07] "In an address at Wake Forest University, McCain pledged to nominate jurists who believe 'there are clear limits to the scope of judicial power'...By way of example, McCain said he would look for people in the cast of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., and his friend the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist. He called them 'jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/7/08 ] OBAMA ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY In 2007, Obama voted against increasing Medicare Part D premiums for beneficiaries making over $80,000 annually. Obama voted against the Ensign Amendment that would require Medicare prescription drugs beneficiaries with annual incomes over $80,000 and couples with annual incomes over $160,000 to pay a larger share of their Medicare Part D premium.[SCR 21, Senate Vote #93, 3/22/07] Obama opposed means testing for Medicare. In response to a NCPSSM questionnaire, Obama said, "The bill added 'means testing' to Part B of Medicare, requiring individuals with incomes over $80,000 to pay gradually higher premiums. This undermines the basic premise of Medicare as an insurance program for all Americans and could cause wealthier and healthier people to leave the Medicare program." [NCPSSM Questionnaire; Citizen Action Illinois Questionnaire, SEIU Questionnaire] MCCAIN ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY McCain voted to raise the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. In 1997, McCain voted in favor of raising the eligibility age for receiving Medicare from 65 to 67 with the change being phased in between 2003 and 2027. The motion passed 62-38. [S 947, Vote #112 , 6/24/97] OBAMA ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY Obama is a long-time supporter of mental health parity legislation, having passed the Illinois Mental Health Parity Law. He also co-sponsored the Mental Health Parity Act of 2007. Obama co-sponsored a bill to amend the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) and the Public Health Service Act to require a group health plan that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health benefits to ensure that: (1) the financial requirements applicable to such mental health benefits are no more restrictive than those of substantially all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including deductibles and copayments; and (2) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental health benefits are no more restrictive than those applied to substantially all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including limits on the frequency of treatments or similar limits on the scope or duration of treatment. The bill prohibi! ted the plan from establishing separate cost sharing requirements that are applicable only with respect to mental health benefits. [110th, S.558, Introduced 2/12/07; HELP Report, 4/11/07] Obama co-sponsored and voted for a mental health parity bill that requires coverage for serious mental illnesses to be provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases. [92nd GA; SB 1341; 2001; Signed into law 7/27/01, PA 92-0185] MCCAIN ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY McCain's health care plan would eliminate the mental health parity requirements in 45 states. [Wall Street Journal, 10/11/07; SOURCE: National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/hmolaws.htm ), accessed 7/30/07; Council for Affordable Health Insurance, accessed 7/30/07 (http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/MandatePub2007.pdf )] OBAMA ON AUTISM Obama will increase federal funding for outreach and support services for people on the autism spectrum. Specifically, "Obama will seek to increase federal ASD funding for research, treatment, screenings, public awareness, and support services to $1 billion annually by the end of his first term in office. Obama will also continue to work with parents, physicians, providers, researchers, and schools to create opportunities and effective solu! tions for people with ASD." [Obama Plan Supporting Americans with Autism Spectrum Disorders ] Obama is a co-sponsor of the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937) which would improve services and supports for individuals with autism spectrum disorder and their families. It would build upon programs within the Developmental Disabilities Act to increase interdisciplinary training of professionals, development and dissemination of evidence-based autism treatments, interventions, supports and services for children and adults, and protection and advocacy. [S.937, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON AUTISM McCain has not taken a leading role to expand services and supports for people with autism. McCain has not co-sponsored the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937). [S.937, 110th Congress] McCain says he will work to advance federal autism research. "As President, John McCain will ! work to advance federal research into autism, promote early screening, and identify better treatment options, while providing support for children with autism so that they may reach their full potential." [McCain Statement on Combating Autism in America ] OBAMA ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama supports fully funding the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) so that we can ensure all polling places are accessible. His administration would also assure better enforcement of federal disability rights laws - from HAVA to the Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act to the ADA - to make sure the right of Americans with disabilities to vote is fully protected. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities ] MCCAIN ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES In 2002, McCain voted repeatedly against the ! Help America Vote Act, which was offered to correct problems in the election system and impose detailed voting-procedure requirements on the states. McCain voted for final passage of the bill. [S.565, Senate] Marc Dubin, Esq. Florida Coordinator Obama For President National Disability Policy Committee www.barackobama.com/issues http://www.barackobama.com/issues/disabilities Register to Vote at http://www.voteforchange.com To view John McCain's policy positions, visit http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/ 305-896-3000 Direct Fax: 877-731-3030 mdubin at pobox.com Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee www.disabilitylawcommittee.com Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights Section, Washington, D.C. 1992-2005 _______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage overrepublicandisabilitypolicy > Antonio, > > Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot > realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire > people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector > of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is > that > it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to > miraculously > make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama > if > you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend > will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will > have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight > is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The > generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their > obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the > unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical > reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. > > Joe Orozco > > P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has > hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article > you > forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make > evidence, only hearsay. > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James > M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage > overrepublicandisability > policy > > Hello Beth, and all, > > I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as > you > point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, > but > they are surely not aganst the disabled. > > I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a > disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the > concervatives. > > Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not > qualify as plight, I don't know what does. > > So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the > books, and other places to change this number. > > Plitefully yours, > > Antonio > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over > republicandisability policy > > >> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >> happen. >> Beth >> >> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>> >>> >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> >>> >>> ADAWatch.org >>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>> Washington, DC 20006 >>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> NEWS RELEASE >>> >>> October 31, 2008 >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>> McCain-Palin >>> Rally >>> >>> >>> >>> Contacts: >>> >>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>> >>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>> >>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>> >>> >>> >>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>> pushed >>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>> rights >>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>> candidate >>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>> >>> >>> >>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>> people >>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint >>> judges >>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>> >>> >>> >>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>> include >>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>> has >>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in >>> concepts > >>> of >>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>> >>> >>> >>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs >>> are >>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>> We >>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>> but >>> equal members of our communities." >>> >>> >>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>> that >>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice >>> organizations >>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>> with >>> physical and mental disabilities. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >> 9:51 AM >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 00:09:09 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Great topic, guys.  I have never had really close friends, either.  Een in college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, etc.  Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two ther people).  I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and really like it, and get along great with those folks.  I go to the Spanish table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort.  It is good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these feelings.   I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping.  Does anyone else feel this way?  If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports and rec list, that's fine.  Just thinking of extracurricular  activities that I would like to participate in but can't.  Soemthign we don't really say--but when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is entirely true when it comes to sports.  Granted I've never done it the way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted sports.  Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and making friends, etc.  Thoughts?   Harry --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: From: Beth Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a successful date and keeping that significant other is having good social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he wouldn't give up. Beth On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, > > Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this > is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found > that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I > told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I > my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them > over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school > still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that > way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to > the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on > Thursday and catch up? > > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill > level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other > hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they > don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other > hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I > know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high > GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too > busy! > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 00:29:24 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:29:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <015301c93e14$64284ac0$0201a8c0@Serene> I'll second observing similar behavior at NFB conventions, especially national. Having said that, it's not just blind people, believe me. I remember at high school tallent shows and college class meetings, most people were cheering for the performer or their class president, but it got a bit loud for me sometimes. Another example, at a band rehearsal in high school, most people were out right fooling around and not paying attention to the music. My band teacher tried a strategy: singling me and another student out as doing exactly what we were supposed to do, although neither of us were reading music. The strategy worked to some extent, although one of the drummers ended up having to scream "shut up!" to get everybody to be quiet. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > Arielle, > > I agree. They may behave inappropriately because they are not motivated > to change their behavior. > Parents giving rewards and taking them to places where they can practice > the skills and observe with their other senses how to act are the best > things I can think of. > > I see many inappropriate behaviors at gatherings of blind people in the > NFB. I don't want to offend anyone, but this does not give me a positive > view of the nfb. I am a member of a chapter but I question whether I want > to hang around people who thing they are the center of the world and > really don't care about others who try and help. > I was raised to say thanks and please at the right time as well as > politely decline help if I don't need it. > > Some behaviors I witness: > 1. people answering their > phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room > > 2. talking while someone else is speaking; so many side conversations in > the room and makes it difficult to hear; I've been to many meetings for > internships, Student government meetings to observe, and club meetings and > never do I see such behavior; if someone is inattentive they are doing > something quiet like reading or texting on the phone, but not disrupting > the meeting > 3. Interrupting a conversation. > 4. When discussing something like an event where people just generally > talk and the officers hear ideas, members talk to one part of the room > rather than the whole room of people. > 5. Placement of canes; I know NFB likes straight canes; I personally use > folding for convenience. But if you choose to use a straight cane, it is > your responsibility to place it in a way where others won't trip. Placing > it where it sticks out from the table is a tripping hazzard. I place mine > under my feet or fold it and place it by my chair and its small so does > not stick out. > 6. General manners; sighted people have to read menus at dinner meetings > which are the usual thing to meet at a restaurant for us. Few people > thank them for their help. > 7. People leave early because their ride is there. Why come at all if you > have to come early or leave late. Its disruptive when people don't stay > for the whole meeting. I rarely see this at other events other than at > events with blind people. Even at college with immature students, they > come for the who event or not at all. If they do have to leave early they > leave quietly and sit near the door so they can slip out when needed. > > Okay I know this was a novel, but it really got me to thinking when social > etiquette came up about the rude behaviors I see at NFB events. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> Hi all, >> >> I appreciate everyone's responses on these threads; you will help to >> contribute to an excellent, informative page on the NABS Web site >> geared toward transitioning youth. I would definitely like to include >> skill areas as well as suggestions for practical things that students >> can do to improve in those areas in preparation for either college or >> work. Obviously we will emphasize the importance of receiving good >> training (from an NFB center etc.), but what are suggestions for some >> other ways that students can learn/practice skills? >> >> I also agree that many blind people do not behave in accordance with >> etiquette rules--my point is just that I think in many cases, it's not >> just because they "don't know better" but because they don't feel >> motivated to change their behavior. If people are not held to high >> expectations they may know intellectually that something should or >> shouldn't be done in public (and be able to explain it to you, etc.) >> but they haven't had any reason to care about their behavior. That's >> why I'm skeptical that simply telling someone that a behavior is >> inappropriate once is really enough to motivate them to >> change--although being nagged might be an incentive in the short term. >> I also think it's important to understand this when we observe others >> around us who don't follow social conventions--it's not necessarily >> that they innocently don't know any differently, but rather that they >> may know it intellectually but not really understand it on an >> emotional level, or they may simply not care unless they have some >> personal incentive to act in a more appropriate way. >> >> On the Web site we can certainly suggest ways for high school students >> to get involved in real social situations (such as joining >> extracurriculars or shopping with friends) where they will not only >> learn these rules/skills but also develop real incentives to attend to >> their social behavior. For example, when I was in high school I did >> competitive speech for two years and there were certain nonverbal >> behaviors that we were all expected to do. I knew if I wanted to win >> the round, I had to do my best to make eye contact with the judges, >> stand straight, use appropriate gestures and not rock, for example. >> People could remind me about those things a thousand times in class or >> at home, but it was in a speech tournament where those things really >> mattered in a tangible way that I really started paying closer >> attention to them. >> >> Other thoughts besides the extracurricular and shopping examples I gave >> above? >> >> Arielle >> >> On 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>> That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I >>> admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God >>> knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>> gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, >>> moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>>>> struggle >>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>> occasionally. >>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>>people. >>>>> Why >>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have >>>>>to >>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch of >>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out of >>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, >>>>>or >>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of >>>>>my >>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior >>>>>is >>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>> >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>> >Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>high >>>>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>sheet is >>>>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>the >>>>> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>there is >>>>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>to >>>>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>setting >>>>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>Really what >>>>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>and >>>>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>those >>>>> >situations. >>>>> >>>>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>knowing >>>>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>order >>>>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>be >>>>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>picks >>>>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>that >>>>> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>it's >>>>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>him for >>>>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>the >>>>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>for >>>>> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>not >>>>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>doing >>>>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>inside >>>>> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>behaviors >>>>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>become so >>>>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>stop >>>>> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>of a >>>>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>motivated >>>>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>it. >>>>> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>conversations >>>>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>and >>>>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>the >>>>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>there >>>>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>care, >>>>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>their >>>>> >time so they're not late, etc. >>>>> >>>>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>their >>>>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>(knowledge), >>>>> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>than >>>>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>they've >>>>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>other >>>>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>emphasis >>>>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>social >>>>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>good >>>>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>to >>>>> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>experience that >>>>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>makes >>>>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>> >>>>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>> >Arielle >>>>> >>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>> >nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 00:39:44 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:39:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds References: <20081103135615.SEGP13158.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><490f2795.1b3e400a.4404.0399@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <017901c93e15$d5807250$0201a8c0@Serene> We as blind students certainly have a lack of social opportunity, especially with significant others. I was lucky to have a boyfriend briefly, until he found his current gf. I know his decision wasn't based on social skills or blindness issues cause his current gf is blind and we're still best friends! I still always feel lucky to have the friends I have, blind/another disability or sighted/able-bodied. I had only 3 real friends in high school. Two of them are best friends with each other and invite me to hang out. The other is friends with me separately and sometimes invites me to hang out, but sometimes, I have to ask him. I simply think it's cause he has some issues of his own. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. > However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, > already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am > envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you > know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social > skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a > prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a > successful date and keeping that significant other is having good > social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, > the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a > blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it > just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I > admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he > wouldn't give up. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >> >> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and >> this >> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >> found >> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to >> go >> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >> people >> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >> sighted >> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >> because I >> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >> that >> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen >> to >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on >> Thursday and catch up? >> >> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >> though >> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you >> walk >> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >> skill >> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >> other >> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other >> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >> days I >> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high >> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >> have >> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too >> busy! >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Hope Paulos >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> I was in the same boat, Beth. I totally understand what you >> mean. I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school. >> She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me >> or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them >> instead. There were very few times when she would invite to go >> places with her other friends. I guess she didn't accept the >> blindness. >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>>I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with >> friends >>>is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the >> friends in >>>the first place. I had practically no friends in high school >> that I >>>could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa >> marching >>>band and chorus. That was it. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>>> Arielle, >> >>>> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough. What is >> needed along >>>> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us >> aside and >>>> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..." Honest, >> non-judgmental feedback >>>> is necessary for improvement. If you know what you just did and >> what cue >>>> you just missed, you can adapt. If you don't, you can't. >> >>>> Joseph >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >>>>>Hi all, >> >>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >> high >>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >> sheet is >>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >> the >>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >> there is >>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >> to >>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >> setting >>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >> Really what >>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >> and >>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >> those >>>>>situations. >> >>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >> knowing >>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >> order >>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >> be >>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >> picks >>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >> that >>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >> it's >>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >> him for >>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >> the >>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >> for >>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >> not >>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >> doing >>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >> inside >>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >> behaviors >>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >> become so >>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >> stop >>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >> of a >>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >> motivated >>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >> it. >>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >> conversations >>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >> and >>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >> the >>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >> there >>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >> care, >>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >> their >>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >> >>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >> their >>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >> (knowledge), >>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >> than >>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >> they've >>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >> other >>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >> emphasis >>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >> social >>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >> good >>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >> to >>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >> experience that >>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >> makes >>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>>>>Arielle >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj >> oseph%40gmail.com >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine..edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 00:43:29 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:43:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> <20081103211302.GB4513@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <018701c93e16$5b5e9e60$0201a8c0@Serene> I pretty much always use my cell to get the time now cause it's one of those cells from Verizon that is accessible using voice commands. (Not one where you have to buy any expensive software for the blind!) Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > As a matter of etiquette, I refuse to wear the cheap talking watches that > are so common. They're loud and obnoxious in any but the most noisy > environments and are totally unsuited to the average workplace. Invest in > a good Braille watch, if you want to fit in with professional circles. > Failing that, a note taker or similar device can be used together. > > I use my watch for approximation of the time (which is what you usually > want anyway), and check my cell phone if I need anything more accurate. > My watch is analog, intended for sighties, and quite high contrast with no > numbers or markings on the face of any kind. A good Braille watch will > serve a person just as well. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 01:57:00AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>I also notice people checking talking watches at inappropriate times, or >>having their rooster alarms go off at inappropriate times. Or some people >>talking over others. Obviously sighted people can do this too, but I think >>I >>notice it more in the blind because I critique them more. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf >>Of Robert Spangler >>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:04 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that >>totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both >>sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of >>inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among >>blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People >>feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable >>and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their >>etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with >>their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but >>unfortunately true. >> >>I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their >>phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room >>and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the >>inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind >>majority. >> >>Thanks, >>Robby >>Hope Paulos wrote: >>> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a >>> wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of >>> others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several >>> "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke >>> my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my >>> grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so >>> proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she >>> insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>> inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when >>> people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even >>> know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the >>> people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their >>> eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to >>> not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not >>> sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it >>> in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i >>> apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that >>> would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in >>> age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these >>> behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time >>> for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>> been extinguished fully. >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>> Hi all, >>> >>>> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>> high >>>> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>> sheet is >>>> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>> the >>>> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>> there is >>>> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>> to >>>> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>> setting >>>> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>> Really what >>>> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>> and >>>> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>> those >>>> situations. >>> >>>> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>> knowing >>>> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>> order >>>> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>> be >>>> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>> picks >>>> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>> that >>>> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>> it's >>>> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>> him for >>>> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>> the >>>> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>> for >>>> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>> not >>>> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>> doing >>>> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>> inside >>>> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>> behaviors >>>> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>> become so >>>> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>> stop >>>> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>> of a >>>> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>> motivated >>>> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>> it. >>>> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>> conversations >>>> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>> and >>>> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>> the >>>> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>> there >>>> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>> care, >>>> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>> their >>>> time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>>> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>> their >>>> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>> (knowledge), >>>> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>> than >>>> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>> they've >>>> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>> other >>>> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>> emphasis >>>> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>> social >>>> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>> good >>>> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>> to >>>> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>> experience that >>>> following social norms and initiating connections with others >>> makes >>>> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>>> So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>>> Arielle >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine..edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm >>ail.com >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>ronto.ca >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From solsticesinger at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 00:59:54 2008 From: solsticesinger at gmail.com (solsticesinger) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 18:59:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD and Braille Notes Message-ID: <1015C2CF5F4941529696C37B63E2A82D@shannon> Hi. My vocational rehabilitation counselor told me that I could play RFB books using the Daisy Player on my Braille Note. I'm wondering if any of you know if this is true, since it's something I'd not heard before. Also, there's nothing on the RFB page that indicates that this is true. So, I'm thinking it's not. I would appreciate any help you can give. Shannon Who can heal, but one who has healed herself? Who can know, but one who has asked and sought? Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way? --ancient French proverb From yvgarcia at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 01:31:10 2008 From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:31:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> Hope, Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a technique that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't too obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or word "No" and "Stop That". Warmest Regards, Yolanda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a > code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person > exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is what > the nfb centers do. > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's > nails. I >>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. > God >>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of > eyes, >>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with > me. >>Beth > >>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. > >>> Dave > >>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and > still struggle >>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock > occasionally. >>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind > people. >>>> Why >>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and > have to >>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a > bunch of >>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers > out of >>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my > age, or >>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think > much of my >>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their > behavior is >>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? > >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>been extinguished fully. > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >>>>>Hi all, > >>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>high >>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>sheet is >>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>the >>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>there is >>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>to >>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>setting >>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>Really what >>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>and >>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>those >>>>>situations. > >>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>knowing >>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>order >>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>be >>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>picks >>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>that >>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>it's >>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>him for >>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>the >>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>for >>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>not >>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>doing >>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>inside >>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>behaviors >>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>become so >>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>stop >>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>of a >>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>motivated >>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>it. >>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>conversations >>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>and >>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>the >>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>there >>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>care, >>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>their >>>>>time so they're not late, etc. > >>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>their >>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>(knowledge), >>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>than >>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>they've >>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>other >>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>emphasis >>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>social >>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>good >>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>to >>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>experience that >>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>makes >>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >>>>>Arielle > >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>os%40maine..edu > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev > nikar%40uto >>>>ronto.ca > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% > 40visi.com > > >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 02:33:01 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:33:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> Hi Harry I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted people really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind person as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to ask him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these feelings. I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities that I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really say--but when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and making friends, etc. Thoughts? Harry --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: From: Beth Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a successful date and keeping that significant other is having good social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he wouldn't give up. Beth On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, > > Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this > is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found > that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I > told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I > my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them > over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school > still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that > way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to > the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on > Thursday and catch up? > > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill > level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other > hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they > don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other > hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I > know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high > GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too > busy! > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From vaxite at hotmail.com Tue Nov 4 03:09:42 2008 From: vaxite at hotmail.com (Heather Rasmussen) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:09:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> > Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these feelings.> > I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities that I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really say--but when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > Harry> > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote:> > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy.> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old,> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with,> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he> wouldn't give up.> Beth> > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote:> > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> go> > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> people> > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted> > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because> I> > my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them> > over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school> > still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often> that> > way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it> > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even> listen to> > the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you> walk> > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> > level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the> other> > hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they> > don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the> other> > hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days> I> > know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high> > GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't> have> > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't,> just too> > busy!> >> >> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children> > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind> > NFB National Center: > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.comI can sympathize with all you people who don't have any friends. I don't have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, like Karry's son, I'm so busy with school that I really don't do much else right now. Still, it's kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid talk about what they did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday afternoon together after school. Then there's the problem that I go to a small school where anyone who didn't grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits in. It gets really lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. I've had several people tell me that it gets better in college, because you meet more people who think like you do. Any thoughts on that? Heather _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the go—take your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 03:16:33 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:16:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like Joseph said. Beth On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: > Hope, > Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer > counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a technique > that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an > unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't too > obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the > context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This > technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to > extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or word > "No" and "Stop That". > > Warmest Regards, > Yolanda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is what >> the nfb centers do. >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >> nails. I >>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >> God >>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >> eyes, >>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >> me. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >> >>>> Dave >> >>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >> still struggle >>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >> occasionally. >>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >> people. >>>>> Why >>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >> have to >>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >> bunch of >>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >> out of >>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >> age, or >>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >> much of my >>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >> behavior is >>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>been extinguished fully. >> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>>>>>Hi all, >> >>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>high >>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>sheet is >>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>the >>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>there is >>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>to >>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>setting >>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>Really what >>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>and >>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>those >>>>>>situations. >> >>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>knowing >>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>order >>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>be >>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>picks >>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>that >>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>it's >>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>him for >>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>the >>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>for >>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>not >>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>doing >>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>inside >>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>behaviors >>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>become so >>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>stop >>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>of a >>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>motivated >>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>it. >>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>conversations >>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>and >>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>the >>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>there >>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>care, >>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>their >>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >> >>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>their >>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>than >>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>they've >>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>other >>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>emphasis >>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>social >>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>good >>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>to >>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>experience that >>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>makes >>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>>>>>Arielle >> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>os%40maine..edu >> >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >> nikar%40uto >>>>>ronto.ca >> >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >> 40visi.com >> >> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 03:17:35 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:17:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds References: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com><265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c93e2b$e27fc530$0201a8c0@Serene> Sure it does! I'll admit, I had many more acquaintances than best friends and that most of my friends had a disability of some kind, but I had many more friends than in high school. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rasmussen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> > Great topic, guys. I > have never had really close friends, either. Een in college, I neer > developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, > etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and > jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two > ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and > really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish > table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is > good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these > feelings.> > I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the > real thing, not some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. > Does anyone else feel this way? If this is better addressed either off > list or on the sports and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of > extracurricular activities that I would like to participate in but can't. > Soemthign we don't really say--but when we say that people can participate > equally--I don't know that it is entirely true when it comes to sports. > Granted I've never done it the way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see > no way of a totally blind person to bowl and get the same experience out > of it with out sighted help that diminishes the experience; likewise, beep > baseball and the other adapted sports. Dont' mean to go off on something > I don't know much about, but I think it does fit in well with our > discussion of social integration and making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > > Harry> > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote:> > > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> To: > "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are right, Carey. The > people in question could be too busy.> However, may I point out that my > younger brother, eighteen years old,> already has a girlfriend and runs > around everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted person who has > a significant other, and you> know why he has her? Because he can immitate > appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social > skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to > winning a> successful date and keeping that significant other is having > good> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a> > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with,> > the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a> blind > student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it> just > makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I> admit I > did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he> wouldn't give > up.> Beth> > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote:> > > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan has not had many > social offers himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is key-respected- > in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > that blind > people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > told him > once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> go> > > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> > people> > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as > a sighted> > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my > friendships are because> I> > my self kept in contact. I called, I made > the lunch date, I invited them> > over, I remembered the birthday card. I > have friends from grade school> > still, but most often I am the one to > keep up the contact. It is often> that> > way, some people are better at > it. I never care or make anyone feel it> > mattered if they haven't called > me for three years, I don't even> listen to> > the "excuse" I just say > forget it, how are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > Thursday and catch up?> > >> > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are > though> > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the > can you> walk> > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I > mentioned, IF your> skill> > level and independence is not truly equal > that can effect. But on the> other> > hand kids know Jordan is equal to > them in school, I think sometimes they> > don't realize he is equally > independent out of school too. On the> other> > hand, he is often too busy > to have any free time to go out, and these days> I> > know a lot of > students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high> > GPA, > working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't> have> > > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't,> just too> > > busy!> >> >> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > National Organization of > Parents of Blind Children> > A Division of the National Federation of the > Blind> > NFB National Center: > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.comI > can sympathize with all you people who don't have any friends. I don't > have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, like Karry's son, I'm so > busy with school that I really don't do much else right now. Still, it's > kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid talk about what > they did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday afternoon together after > school. Then there's the problem that I go to a small school where anyone > who didn't grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits in. It > gets really lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. I've had > several people tell me that it gets better in college, because you meet > more people who think like you do. Any thoughts on that? Heather _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the go—take your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 4 03:18:59 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:18:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <20081103211302.GB4513@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> <20081103211302.GB4513@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Exactly. I use both - a Braille watch for practicality and a Braille lite clock when I don't want anyone to know I'm checking the time. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette As a matter of etiquette, I refuse to wear the cheap talking watches that are so common. They're loud and obnoxious in any but the most noisy environments and are totally unsuited to the average workplace. Invest in a good Braille watch, if you want to fit in with professional circles. Failing that, a note taker or similar device can be used together. I use my watch for approximation of the time (which is what you usually want anyway), and check my cell phone if I need anything more accurate. My watch is analog, intended for sighties, and quite high contrast with no numbers or markings on the face of any kind. A good Braille watch will serve a person just as well. Joseph On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 01:57:00AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >I also notice people checking talking watches at inappropriate times, or >having their rooster alarms go off at inappropriate times. Or some people >talking over others. Obviously sighted people can do this too, but I think I >notice it more in the blind because I critique them more. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Robert Spangler >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:04 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that >totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both >sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of >inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more >among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. > People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially >acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for >their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will >work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. >It's sad but unfortunately true. > >I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their >phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room >and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the >inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a >blind majority. > >Thanks, >Robby >Hope Paulos wrote: >> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a >> wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of >> others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several >> "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke >> my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, my >> grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was so >> proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she >> insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >> inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when >> people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even >> know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the >> people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their >> eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to >> not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not >> sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it >> in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i >> apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that >> would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in >> age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these >> behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time >> for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >> been extinguished fully. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >> high >>> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >> sheet is >>> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >> the >>> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >> there is >>> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >> to >>> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >> setting >>> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >> Really what >>> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >> and >>> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >> those >>> situations. >> >>> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >> knowing >>> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >> order >>> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >> be >>> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >> picks >>> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >> that >>> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >> it's >>> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >> him for >>> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >> the >>> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >> for >>> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >> not >>> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >> doing >>> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >> inside >>> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >> behaviors >>> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >> become so >>> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >> stop >>> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >> of a >>> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >> motivated >>> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >> it. >>> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >> conversations >>> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >> and >>> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >> the >>> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >> there >>> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >> care, >>> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >> their >>> time so they're not late, etc. >> >>> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >> their >>> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >> (knowledge), >>> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >> than >>> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >> they've >>> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >> other >>> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >> emphasis >>> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >> social >>> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >> good >>> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >> to >>> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >> experience that >>> following social norms and initiating connections with others >> makes >>> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>> So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine..edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40g m >ail.com >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40ut o >ronto.ca > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From k7uij at panix.com Tue Nov 4 03:29:01 2008 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:29:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161791FAF32E43CFA8174FCFB037276B@owner96190708e> With great respect, I must beg to differ with yu on one of these behaviors. I have observed as many, if not more, sighted persons answering their frickin' phones in meetings, in restaurants, while on the bus or in other less-than-ideal situations, than I have blind persons. There have been state conventions where I almost was ready to enforce a phone-check at the door, i.e., require *all* persons to hand over their phones at registration, said phones to be returned after the last session. (grin) Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but unfortunately true. I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind majority. Thanks, Robby Hope Paulos wrote: > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be > a > wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of > others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several > "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would > poke > my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, > my > grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was > so > proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why > she > insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when > people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even > know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the > people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their > eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to > not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not > sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it > in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i > apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that > would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged > in > age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these > behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time > for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others—rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Tue Nov 4 03:29:47 2008 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:29:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I should think a fine, said fine going into the chapter/affiliate treasury, might do the trick! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. Beth On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: > Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self > stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them > naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. > > Dave > > At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>struggle >>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>occasionally. >>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>people. >> Why >>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have >>to >>extinguish them as we grow? >>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch >>of >>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out >>of >>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, >>or >>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of >>my >>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior >>is >>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>Of Hope Paulos >>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>been extinguished fully. >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Arielle Silverman" > >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >Hi all, >> >> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>high >> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>sheet is >> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>the >> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>there is >> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>to >> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>setting >> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>Really what >> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>and >> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>those >> >situations. >> >> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>knowing >> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>order >> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>be >> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>picks >> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>that >> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>it's >> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>him for >> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>the >> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>for >> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>not >> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>doing >> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>inside >> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>behaviors >> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>become so >> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>stop >> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>of a >> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>motivated >> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>it. >> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>conversations >> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>and >> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>the >> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>there >> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>care, >> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>their >> >time so they're not late, etc. >> >> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>their >> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>(knowledge), >> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>than >> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>they've >> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>other >> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>emphasis >> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>social >> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>good >> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>to >> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>experience that >> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>makes >> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >> >Arielle >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>os%40maine..edu >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>ronto.ca >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>11/2/2008 9:51 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Tue Nov 4 03:35:07 2008 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 19:35:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <059DA197ADC647DF84A514F4A6EE002F@owner96190708e> Arielle: Part of the problem, I think, lies in the fact that many blind persons don't really believe -- way down in the gut believe -- that the undesired behaviors really will have adverse consequences in the world of work and adult relations. After all, there is a lot of idealistic rhetoric about looking deeper than the surface and judging people by who they are, not what they look like. Trouble is that most of the people who foist such twaddel upon us aren't all that successful themselves very often and so aren't necessarily worth listening to. Another thing I saw many years ago when a student was that some blind students were trying to figure out how they could be a bit eccentric without being so weird that their eccentricities were put down to their blindness. I never truly came up with an answer for them except that no one ever said that blindness wasn't a nuisance and they could take their pick between being proud of being weird while not getting anywhere or learning to fit in and making far more money than did I. (grin) Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Hi all, I appreciate everyone's responses on these threads; you will help to contribute to an excellent, informative page on the NABS Web site geared toward transitioning youth. I would definitely like to include skill areas as well as suggestions for practical things that students can do to improve in those areas in preparation for either college or work. Obviously we will emphasize the importance of receiving good training (from an NFB center etc.), but what are suggestions for some other ways that students can learn/practice skills? I also agree that many blind people do not behave in accordance with etiquette rules--my point is just that I think in many cases, it's not just because they "don't know better" but because they don't feel motivated to change their behavior. If people are not held to high expectations they may know intellectually that something should or shouldn't be done in public (and be able to explain it to you, etc.) but they haven't had any reason to care about their behavior. That's why I'm skeptical that simply telling someone that a behavior is inappropriate once is really enough to motivate them to change--although being nagged might be an incentive in the short term. I also think it's important to understand this when we observe others around us who don't follow social conventions--it's not necessarily that they innocently don't know any differently, but rather that they may know it intellectually but not really understand it on an emotional level, or they may simply not care unless they have some personal incentive to act in a more appropriate way. On the Web site we can certainly suggest ways for high school students to get involved in real social situations (such as joining extracurriculars or shopping with friends) where they will not only learn these rules/skills but also develop real incentives to attend to their social behavior. For example, when I was in high school I did competitive speech for two years and there were certain nonverbal behaviors that we were all expected to do. I knew if I wanted to win the round, I had to do my best to make eye contact with the judges, stand straight, use appropriate gestures and not rock, for example. People could remind me about those things a thousand times in class or at home, but it was in a speech tournament where those things really mattered in a tangible way that I really started paying closer attention to them. Other thoughts besides the extracurricular and shopping examples I gave above? Arielle On 11/3/08, Beth wrote: > That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I > admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God > knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a > gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, > moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. > Beth > > On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>> struggle >>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>> occasionally. >>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>people. >>> Why >>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>have to >>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch >>>of >>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out >>>of >>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>age, or >>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much >>>of my >>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>behavior is >>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>>Of Hope Paulos >>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>been extinguished fully. >>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" >> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >Hi all, >>> >>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>high >>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>sheet is >>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>the >>> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>there is >>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>to >>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>setting >>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>Really what >>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>and >>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>those >>> >situations. >>> >>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>knowing >>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>order >>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>be >>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>picks >>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>that >>> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>it's >>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>him for >>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>the >>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>for >>> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>not >>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>doing >>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>inside >>> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>behaviors >>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>become so >>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>stop >>> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>of a >>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>motivated >>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>it. >>> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>conversations >>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>and >>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>the >>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>there >>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>care, >>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>their >>> >time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>their >>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>(knowledge), >>> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>than >>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>they've >>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>other >>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>emphasis >>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>social >>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>good >>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>to >>> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>experience that >>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>makes >>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>> >Arielle >>> >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >nabs-l mailing list >>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>os%40maine..edu >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>ronto.ca >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 03:49:33 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:49:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends because I don't want to look weird or anything. Beth On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: > Hi Harry > > I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love > bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted people > really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the > middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent > post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! > He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind person > as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to ask > him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > > Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in > college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to > during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a > group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one > or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and > really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish > table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is > good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these > feelings. > > I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not > some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else > feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports > and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities that > I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really say--but > when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is > entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way > they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to > bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted > sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I > think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and > making friends, etc. Thoughts? > > Harry > > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: > > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM > > You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. > However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, > already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am > envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you > know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social > skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a > prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a > successful date and keeping that significant other is having good > social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, > the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a > blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it > just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I > admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he > wouldn't give up. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >> >> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and > this >> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have > found >> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to > go >> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, > people >> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted >> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because > I >> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often > that >> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even > listen to >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do > lunch on >> Thursday and catch up? >> >> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though >> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you > walk >> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your > skill >> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the > other >> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the > other >> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days > I >> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high >> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't > have >> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, > just too >> busy! >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 03:51:51 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:51:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative In-Reply-To: <005301c93d0a$5cada160$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <490dbae2.232d400a.70f0.3666@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811020929s37b8f3acpf4530cf5dbbefdfe@mail.gmail.com> <005301c93d0a$5cada160$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031951x53306657o72999c4f4a7f84e4@mail.gmail.com> I don't usually hang out with friends in their dorm rooms. But remember the young man I told you about in a post on another topic? This young man and I hung out in his room until, like, twelve-thirty at night without realizig it. We absolutely enjoyed being together. But I don't have any trouble trying to be a friend. With most people that help me, I always open the door for them and say, "Let's have a cup of coffee/coke or something." Beth On 11/2/08, Serena wrote: > How about learning how to be a friend without being a burden and not > over-staying your welcome, let's say, in your friends' dorm rooms > > Serena. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative > > >>I like all these ideas. >> Beth >> >> On 11/2/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>> The whole social skills and etiquette thing is such an important area >>> that a >>> well-known leader of ours in the area of vocational rehabilitation, Jim >>> Omvig, has said it is the crucial fourth ingredient needed for success-or >>> truly being capable of integrating. >>> >>> I have met college graduates, who have been employed in good jobs, eat >>> with >>> such horrible manners that one can barley stand to sit at the same table. >>> Now they got the job because you don't have to eat in an interview, but I >>> totally believe that it would affect things among co-workers or clients >>> and >>> make them lose respect for the un-mannered person if they ever went out >>> to >>> eat together. Another example to think of, recently I read a parent post >>> who >>> spoke of how wonderful it was that their child was so liked--absolutely >>> everyone fought over helping the child. Well that child has no friends in >>> reality, only caretakers. There is no equal and true friendship possible >>> here. When one gets the feeling of superiority because of always needing >>> to >>> help another-viewing the other as equal doesn't happen. This child is >>> being >>> set up for a very hard time. I also know people who were lazy and not >>> used >>> to getting places on time or being self-organized because no one ever >>> expected those things of them. >>> >>> I want to point out though that this kind of lack of social and business >>> etiquette happens to sighted kids too. There are people who were raised >>> with >>> no values on these things. There are also people I have known, sighted >>> and >>> blind, who taught themselves and came to value etiquette despite not >>> having >>> been raised that way. There is no sense in discussing whether etiquette >>> is >>> fair or moral as a measure--it definitely is. I tend to think this way >>> about >>> it. Take nose picking as a fun example. I knew sighted and bind kids who >>> picked their noses in public--or in view of others--at age ten. If so it >>> is >>> I say, 80% their parents fault (meaning mostly) and 20% their own fault. >>> If >>> they do it at age twenty five the percentage of responsibility is >>> reversed. >>> If they do it at age thirty, it is all on them. >>> >>> I agree that this covers a very very broad area. You might want to >>> address >>> it as social and business etiquette, using etiquette rather than skill. >>> And >>> I want to point out that it really has less to do with blindness, I >>> believe, >>> than opportunity and parents and teachers failing the child early on and >>> the >>> student failing to take personal responsibility as they come to >>> adulthood. >>> My parents didn't teach me about money as I said earlier, that and many >>> other things I had to teach myself. Sure it made some things harder in >>> the >>> beginning, but now at age 49 if I am not wise with my money can I say it >>> is >>> my parents or teachers fault? No. I went to every prom and homecoming--it >>> had no bearing on the outcome of my life. I am sure if we had one, >>> studies >>> would show that it is not a sole predictor of successful outcomes in >>> life. >>> >>> I think it is very relevant for students to think of as important because >>> >>> of >>> the importance of it in employment outcomes as well as adding to a >>> socially >>> happy time of it. Take Dr. Jernigan as an example. He was raised on a >>> farm >>> in Tennessee, and with manners, but the family was not highly educated or >>> worldly, Dr. Jernigan taught himself and read extensively and found >>> mentors >>> to teach him, and became to have superior social graces and the >>> capability >>> of speaking and acting with senators, and governors, and presidents, and >>> heads of large companies with grace and confidence. Books on etiquette >>> abound, you can google manners, one can self teach and self >>> improve--maybe >>> what you can do on your web site is place the expectation there and let >>> blind high school-ers know they have the same capability and >>> responsibility >>> as everyone else and it will definitely affect their life and employment >>> capability. >>> >>> Well I got long thinking and winded again...don't worry I will be too >>> busy >>> to write anything more for awhile, smile. >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah Jevnikar >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:43 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative >>> >>> Just a thought - since socialization is such a huge part of everything >>> we'll >>> do (including self-advocacy) - would it be possible to have a special >>> socialization fact sheet? Having "good social skills" is such a broad >>> topic. >>> What do you guys think? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:44 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Leaving the Nest Comparative >>> >>> I second all you said, Carey. I think I'm a horrible cook, and I >>> don't know anything much about health insurance. adly, I don't think >>> I had the courage and motivation to sneak out in my mom's kitchen and >>> burn the meat. It wasn't my food anyway. But I agree that all the >>> ideals in the way of skills should be minimals, but there's more to it >>> than that. We should add social readiness skills to that list. I >>> never went to prom or homecoming or made it to homecoming court >>> because my social skills were below C level. I mean, below sea level. >>> (smile) I've never really thought that here at FSU there would be >>> more doors opening for me and blind people around to tell me this. My >>> ex-friend, and I mean EX friend told me that certain things just >>> weren't socially appropriate. But I'm sure that he'll probably learn >>> that I never meant what I said. I've been through all the normal >>> social things, but I felt like a complete outcast in school because o >>> a. my blindness and b. the psychological social things that nobody >>> figured out until it was too late and my rep was ruined. >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 03:54:50 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:54:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy In-Reply-To: <20A30DE319264A73A1AE7688EE9E4DAB@MonkeyPaw> References: <010801c93de2$ec4a3800$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <20A30DE319264A73A1AE7688EE9E4DAB@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811031954x44bda6e5o47b05a45c7a37891@mail.gmail.com> You didn't write a novel. I have tried writing the Great American Novel, but turned out I didn't. lol Beth On 11/3/08, Joe Orozco wrote: > Antonio, > > Wiktionary.org defines "plight" as the following: > > *Predicament: a situation from which extrication is difficult especially an > unpleasant or trying one; "finds himself in a most awkward predicament"; > "the woeful plight of homeless people"* > > I believe the reference to homeless people highlights the popular > connotation of the word, the same popular connotation you are exercising in > attempting to make your point. In my post I said the word, and therefore > its connotation, are reserved for people unable to overcome adversity. I > did not claim to be offering a literal definition. If we look at the > definition above, I would argue that Jewish people once experienced a > so-called plight. I would argue that Native-Americans once experienced a > plight. African-American slaves, refugees from war-torn African > countries...Those people are victims of the type of plight you are > attempting to associate with the blind. Blind people have not been socially > degraded. The odds for the blind are high, but at no point have they been > stacked up so high that no amount of education could ever hope to change the > public's perception that the blind are equal human beings. If we were > holding this discussion in the midst of a third world country, I would grant > you the perception, but we live in a country that has opened doors for the > blind and other people with disabilities despite all its legal and > legislative shortcomings. Unlike the aforementioned groups, the blind are > not inhibited by a social barrier so immense as to appear immovable. > > You've already offered this document outlining the comparison of Obama to > McCain before. I believe it heavily favors Obama despite its claims to be > neutral, but the writer earned my respect for taking the time to build a > case on more than ideological affiliation. The author is voting as an > informed individual who can support his choice with more than emotional > claims about which candidate best fits his perception of what a candidate > ought to be doing, and I guess when it comes down to it, I wish you could > have built a similar case to convince us that the issue of disabilities is > crucial enough to singularly consider in tomorrow's election and that Obama > is the only logical solution to the alleged problems you see with the > disability community. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. > Build your own solid platform in support of your candidate so that naysayers > like myself cannot overwhelm you with spreading arguments. > > Now, I'm not up for writing another novel. Unless you post something > completely off the wall, I think I've bored you long enough. Steve pretty > much summed up the discussion far more elegantly than I could have managed. > If Obama wins, and statistically it is difficult to predict to the contrary, > I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever you desire when I next see you. If the > Mac really does come back, you can spot me a Long Island or two. Despite > our difference of opinions, I'm glad we had the discussion. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express > outrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy > > About plight, my dictionary defines it as > > "condition, state; especially a bad state.: > > No language in my dictionary, the version used in the Franklyn Master > Special edition suggests that plight is reserved for those who can not > overcome adversity. > > Turning to the dictionary in the Kurzweil software, plight is defined as > > "a cituation, especially a bad or unfortunate one." > > "To give a pledge, one's word of oath for example." > > "To endanger, put at risk." > > Again, nothing here directly indicating a lack of reziliency, or inability > to overcome adversity. > > I have provided two pieces that point out why I favor the Obama camp. I have > heard McCain refer to the disabled as people with special needs, as pointed > out in the recent press release. I do not feel the need to research and > present evidence for my every statement, but I know what I hear, and I know > what I read. And, from what I hear, and from what I read, I have been able > to make a conscious decision on who is best suited to lead America. My mind > will likely not change, and neither is Joe Orosco's, or Mika Pikala. We have > been politically defined in the same way for years, but I hope we are always > able to carry on with maturity, and forceful arguments. > > I know who I support for president, and I know why I put my weight behind > him. It is up to each individual to to the same for themselves. If anyone > can show my original posts to be wrong, rather than to point out that it > favors one candidate over another, I would reconsider my statements, and > political leanings. Again, if McCain has such good record introducing laws > on behalf of the NFB, why isn't such general favor for disability issues > reflected in this document below? > > Does the Obama support for disability policy present itself so promenently > here because the writer is left-leaning, or because Obama's policies are > well-articulated, and generally more benneficial to people with > disabilities, and the blind? > > Are there straight out lies about McCain, misstatements of his positions and > voting record, and inflated statements about Obama? If so, what are they? Is > this all a matter of perception, or can we trust in imperic data, and one's > voting record? > > Sincerely > > Antonio Guimaraes > > ---------------------------------- > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 > This information is set forth in an effort to provide the reader with > information about the Presidential candidates' positions concerning people > with disabilities. It is not intended as an endorsement of either candidate, > and is posted in my private capacity. > Watch what they do (and did), not just what they say. > > Vote for the candidate of your choice, but vote. > Please feel free to share this email and add it to your blogs. > > Marc > > As we near November 4th, it is increasingly important that voters concerned > about people with disabilities are well-informed about the candidates' > positions. Each Presidential candidate has put forth positions on issues on > their respective websites: > > McCain/Palen: > www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues es> > > Obama/Biden: www.barackobama.com/issues > > > Please take a look at each of the websites to learn where the candidates > really stand. > A review of their respective records in the Senate is also revealing: > OBAMA ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES > > Barack Obama supports full funding of the Individuals with Disabilities > Education Act (IDEA), early intervention and developmental programs, and > expanded college opportunities for students with disabilities. > > Obama voted for over $44 billion in funding for the IDEA. [SCR 1, Senate > Vote #94, 3/22/07] > > Obama will invest $10 billion per year in early intervention, educational > and developmental programs for children between zero and five. His plan > will help expand programs such as Early Head Start to serve more children > with disabilities. His plan also will encourage states to expand programs > for children with disabilities, such as IDEA Part C. [Obama Plan to Empower > Americans with Disabilities > ] > > Obama supports increasing opportunities for college students with > disabilities. He also will provide more support for these college students. > > Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Senate bill to reauthorize the > Higher Education Act (S. 1642) which significantly expands opportunities and > supports for individuals with disabilities to attend college and graduate > programs. [S.1642, 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES > > John McCain has repeatedly voted against the IDEA even though he claims he > supports full funding of it. > > McCain has repeatedly voted against funding for special education. > >> McCain repeatedly voted against funding increases for the IDEA. >> [H.R.4577, Senate Vote #170, 6/30/00; SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, >> 3/26/03] > >> McCain has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy over education funding for >> students with disabilities. Specifically, McCain voted against >> increasing spending in the amount of $229 billion over 10 years for >> the IDEA. McCain also voted against an amendment that would create a >> reserve fund of $73 billion in IDEA funding. The spending would have >> been made possible by reducing tax cuts. [SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, >> 3/26/03; SCR 23, Senate Vote #70, 3/21/03] > > McCain did not co-sponsor reauthorization of the Higher Education Act (S. > 1642). He also did not vote on passage of the reauthorization of the Higher > Education Act in the 110th Congress. [S.1642, 110th Congress; S. 1642, > Senate Vote #275, 7/24/07] > > OBAMA ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY > > Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Choice Act of 2007. Obama believes > that individuals should be able to make their own choices for their living > arrangements and live independently in their communities. [S.799, 110th > Congress] > > Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Living Assistance Services and > Support (CLASS) Act Of 2007. This bill would help individuals with > functional impairments pay for services that they need to maximize their > independence. [S.1758, 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY > > McCain strongly opposes the Community Choice Act. Asked about the Community > Choice Act at a Town Hall in Denver, McCain said "The Community Choice Act > is not a piece of legislation that I support." [McCain Town Hall > 1672_5.html> > , 7/7/08] > > OBAMA ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING > > Obama opposes a freeze on social services spending for people with > disabilities. > > Obama voted against capping non-defense spending which means that social > service spending for people with disabilities could continue to meet their > needs. In 2005, Obama voted against the Inhofe amendment that would cap > non-defense, non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] > > MCCAIN ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING > > McCain promises that he will cap non-defense spending for at least one year, > meaning that social services spending for people with disabilities will be > capped as well. > > McCain voted in favor of capping non-defense spending. In 2005, McCain voted > for the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense and non-trust fund > spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] > > McCain proposed a freeze of discretionary spending as illustrated when he > said, "As president, I will also order a prompt and thorough review of the > budgets of every federal program, department, and agency. While that > top-to-bottom review is underway, we will institute a one-year pause in > discretionary spending increases with the necessary exemption of military > spending and veterans' benefits." [McCain Remarks on the Economy at Carnegie > Mellon University, 4/15/08 > cdd41a1b812.htm> > ] > > OBAMA ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > Obama will sign universal health care into law by the end of his first term > in office, and he has supported expanding the State Children's Health > Insurance Program ("SCHIP") and health care programs for people with > disabilities, children, and veterans. > > > > Under Obama's plan to provide universal health insurance, insurance > companies will not be able to stop individuals from getting coverage even if > they have pre-existing conditions and disabilities. Obama's plan allows > individuals and businesses to purchase public or private health coverage > through a national health insurance exchange. Obama's plan would make > health care more affordable and accessible to all Americans, particularly > individuals who have been denied coverage in the private market due to a > pre-existing condition or disability. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals > with Disabilities > ] > > Obama is a co-sponsor of ending the Medicare Waiting Period Act of 2007 > (S.2102). Before they can get Medicare coverage, people with disabilities > must first receive Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) for 24 > months. Due to the 24-month Medicare waiting period, an estimated 400,000 > Americans with disabilities are uninsured and many more are underinsured at > a time in their lives when they need health coverage the most. During this > waiting period, many individuals develop secondary conditions, their health > status worsens and many die. Obama supports legislation that would phase > out this harmful waiting period and provide individuals with health > insurance. [S.2102, 110th Congress] > > Obama supported expanded health insurance for children. In 2007, Obama > voted to reauthorize the SCHIP at over $60 billion for five years. Two > children who live with a single parent who makes $51,510 would have access > to health insurance coverage under SCHIP. The bill would provide $100 > million in new grants to fund state outreach and enrollment efforts and > allocate $49 million for a demonstration project to streamline the > enrollment process for low-income children already eligible for coverage. > [HR 976, Senate Vote #307, 8/2/07] > > Obama supported assuring accessible health care to people with disabilities > by co-sponsoring the Promoting Wellness for Individuals with Disabilities > Act (S.1050) The bill would require the U.S. Access Board to establish > access standards for all diagnostic equipment (examination tables, x-ray, > mammography and other radiological equipment, etc.). It also educates > physicians and dentists by requiring that medical schools, dental schools, > and their residency programs provide training to improve competency and > clinical skills in providing care to patients with disabilities (including > those with intellectual disabilities) as a condition of receiving federal > funds. Finally, it establishes a national wellness grant program which will > authorize funding for programs or activities for smoking cessation, weight > control, nutrition or fitness that are tailored to the needs of individuals > with disabilities and authorize funding for preventive health screening > programs for individuals wi! > th disabilities to reduce the incidence of secondary conditions. [S.1050, > 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > McCain's health care plan does not prohibit discrimination against > individuals with pre-existing conditions and disabilities. McCain's > healthcare plan would replace the existing tax exclusion for > employer-sponsored health coverage with a refundable tax credit for all > Americans as an incentive to purchase health insurance. However, many > individuals with disabilities are denied coverage or unable to afford > coverage in the private market due to pre-existing conditions and > disabilities. While McCain's plan would work with states to develop best > practice models in expanding coverage to individuals who have been denied > coverage, it would not prohibit discrimination. [Washington Post, 4/30/08 > 2706.html> > ] > > McCain opposed reauthorizing SCHIP and providing insurance for millions of > uninsured children. According to Knight Ridder, "The [2007] Senate proposal > would provide coverage to 3.2 million" uninsured children and renew coverage > for the 6 million children already covered by the program. The legislation > passed 68-31. [H.R. 976, Vote #307 > m?congress=110&session=1&vote=00307> > , 8/2/07; Knight Ridder, 8/2/07] > > VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES: > Obama: > The Disabled America Veterans (DAV) gave Obama an 80% rating in 2006. > [Project Vote Smart] > Obama supported expanding health care for veterans. > >> In 2005, Obama voted for providing an additional $500 million per >> year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. >> [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > >> In 2006, Obama voted in favor of adding $430 million for outpatient >> and inpatient health care and treatment for veterans. Nearly half of >> the military servicemen and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will >> require health care services for the physical and psychological >> traumas of war, yet the Bush administration and Republican-led >> Congress have underfunded the Veterans Administration's medical >> services by at least $1.2 billion for 2007 alone. And, this was the >> second consecutive year they had done so. [H.R.4939, Senate Vote #98, >> 4/26/06; The Independent Budget, A Budget for Veterans by Veterans, >> 2/10/06; Newsweek, 1/19/06] > > Obama voted for $2 million for research of traumatic brain injuries to > improve imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current > technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. > 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > > McCain: > > McCain opposed expanding health care for veterans. > >> In 2005, McCain voted against providing an additional $500 million >> per year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. >> [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > >> In 2006, McCain was one of 13 senators who voted against adding $430 >> million for outpatient and inpatient health care and treatment for >> veterans. Amendment passed 84-16. [H.R.4939, Vote #98 >> > cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00098> >> , 4/26/06] > > >> McCain voted against $2 million of funding for research of traumatic >> brain injuries. McCain rejected legislation that would help improve >> imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current >> technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. >> 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > > > >> McCain voted with the Disabled American Veterans 20% of the time. >> Factcheck.org "However, he is correct in that McCain doesn't have a >> perfect score with DAV (Disabled American Veterans), a group of 1.3 >> million disabled veterans that supports more funding for veterans health >> care. McCain has a 20 percent record of voting the way DAV would like him >> to in 2006...Senators were evaluated on five votes for amendments that >> would have increased funding for veterans' health care." [Factcheck.org >> > ord.html> >> ] > > > OBAMA ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > Obama strongly supports the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) > Restoration Act. Indeed, he signed on as an original co-sponsor of the > Senate version of the ADA Restoration Act. [S.1050, 110th Congress] > > > > Obama will appoint judges who exhibit empathy for individuals with > disabilities. "Barack Obama will appoint judges and justices who respect > Congress' role as a co-equal, democratically elected branch of government > and who exhibit empathy with what it means to be an American with a > disability" [Obama Plan To Empower Individuals With Disabilities > ] > > MCCAIN ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > While McCain has also co-sponsored the ADA Restoration Act, he has promised > to appoint judges like those who interpreted the ADA narrowly and deprived > millions of people with disabilities of their civil rights. McCain said > that as president, he would "appoint strict constructionist judges." [AP, > 8/7/07] "In an address at Wake Forest University, McCain pledged to > nominate jurists who believe 'there are clear limits to the scope of > judicial power'...By way of example, McCain said he would look for people in > > the cast of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito > Jr., and his friend the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist. He called > them 'jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the > law, and know the difference.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/7/08 > 3233304.story> > ] > > > OBAMA ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY > > In 2007, Obama voted against increasing Medicare Part D premiums for > beneficiaries making over $80,000 annually. Obama voted against the Ensign > > Amendment that would require Medicare prescription drugs beneficiaries with > annual incomes over $80,000 and couples with annual incomes over $160,000 to > > pay a larger share of their Medicare Part D premium.[SCR 21, Senate Vote > #93, 3/22/07] > > Obama opposed means testing for Medicare. In response to a NCPSSM > questionnaire, Obama said, "The bill added 'means testing' to Part B of > Medicare, requiring individuals with incomes over $80,000 to pay gradually > higher premiums. This undermines the basic premise of Medicare as an > insurance program for all Americans and could cause wealthier and healthier > people to leave the Medicare program." [NCPSSM Questionnaire; Citizen > Action Illinois Questionnaire, SEIU Questionnaire] > > MCCAIN ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY > > McCain voted to raise the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. In 1997, > McCain voted in favor of raising the eligibility age for receiving Medicare > from 65 to 67 with the change being phased in between 2003 and 2027. The > motion passed 62-38. [S 947, Vote #112 > m?congress=105&session=1&vote=00112> > , 6/24/97] > > OBAMA ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY Obama is a long-time supporter of mental > health parity legislation, having passed the Illinois Mental Health Parity > Law. He also co-sponsored the Mental Health Parity Act of 2007. Obama > co-sponsored a bill to amend the Employee Retirement Income Security Act > (ERISA) and the Public Health Service Act to require a group health plan > that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health benefits > to ensure that: (1) the financial requirements applicable to such mental > health benefits are no more restrictive than those of substantially all > medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including deductibles and > > copayments; and (2) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental > health benefits are no more restrictive than those applied to substantially > all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including limits on > the frequency of treatments or similar limits on the scope or duration of > treatment. The bill prohibi! > ted the plan from establishing separate cost sharing requirements that are > applicable only with respect to mental health benefits. [110th, S.558, > Introduced 2/12/07; HELP Report, 4/11/07] Obama co-sponsored and voted for a > > mental health parity bill that requires coverage for serious mental > illnesses to be provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses > > and diseases. [92nd GA; SB 1341; 2001; Signed into law 7/27/01, PA 92-0185] > MCCAIN ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY McCain's health care plan would eliminate > the mental health parity requirements in 45 states. [Wall Street Journal, > 10/11/07; SOURCE: National Conference of State Legislatures > (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/hmolaws.htm > ), accessed 7/30/07; > Council for Affordable Health Insurance, accessed 7/30/07 > (http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/MandatePub2007.pdf > )] > OBAMA ON AUTISM Obama will increase federal funding for outreach and support > > services for people on the autism spectrum. Specifically, "Obama will seek > to increase federal ASD funding for research, treatment, screenings, public > awareness, and support services to $1 billion annually by the end of his > first term in office. Obama will also continue to work with parents, > physicians, providers, researchers, and schools to create opportunities and > effective solu! > tions for people with ASD." [Obama Plan Supporting Americans with Autism > Spectrum Disorders > ] Obama is a > > co-sponsor of the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act > (S.937) which would improve services and supports for individuals with > autism spectrum disorder and their families. It would build upon programs > within the Developmental Disabilities Act to increase interdisciplinary > training of professionals, development and dissemination of evidence-based > autism treatments, interventions, supports and services for children and > adults, and protection and advocacy. [S.937, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON > AUTISM McCain has not taken a leading role to expand services and supports > for people with autism. McCain has not co-sponsored the Expanding the > Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937). [S.937, 110th Congress] > McCain says he will work to advance federal autism research. "As President, > > John McCain will ! > work to advance federal research into autism, promote early screening, and > identify better treatment options, while providing support for children with > > autism so that they may reach their full potential." [McCain Statement on > Combating Autism in America > 1> > ] OBAMA ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama supports > fully funding the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) so that we can ensure all > polling places are accessible. His administration would also assure better > > enforcement of federal disability rights laws - from HAVA to the Voting > Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act to the ADA - to make sure > the right of Americans with disabilities to vote is fully protected. [Obama > Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities > ] MCCAIN ON > VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES In 2002, McCain voted > repeatedly against the ! > Help America Vote Act, which was offered to correct problems in the election > > system and impose detailed voting-procedure requirements on the states. > McCain voted for final passage of the bill. [S.565, Senate] > Marc Dubin, Esq. > Florida Coordinator > Obama For President National Disability Policy Committee > > www.barackobama.com/issues > http://www.barackobama.com/issues/disabilities > Register to Vote at http://www.voteforchange.com > > To view John McCain's policy positions, visit > http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/ > > 305-896-3000 Direct > Fax: 877-731-3030 > mdubin at pobox.com > > Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee > www.disabilitylawcommittee.com > Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights > Division, Disability Rights Section, Washington, D.C. 1992-2005 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:12 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage > overrepublicandisabilitypolicy > > >> Antonio, >> >> Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot >> realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire >> people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that sector >> of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is >> that >> it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to >> miraculously >> make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama >> if >> you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you pretend >> will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will >> have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. Plight >> is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The >> generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their >> obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the >> unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical >> reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has >> hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article >> you >> forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not make >> evidence, only hearsay. >> >> "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James >> M. >> Barrie >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Antonio Guimaraes >> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage >> overrepublicandisability >> policy >> >> Hello Beth, and all, >> >> I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as >> you >> point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, >> but >> they are surely not aganst the disabled. >> >> I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a >> disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the >> concervatives. >> >> Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not >> qualify as plight, I don't know what does. >> >> So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the >> books, and other places to change this number. >> >> Plitefully yours, >> >> Antonio >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over >> republicandisability policy >> >> >>> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >>> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >>> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >>> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >>> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >>> happen. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ADAWatch.org >>>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>>> Washington, DC 20006 >>>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> NEWS RELEASE >>>> >>>> October 31, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>>> McCain-Palin >>>> Rally >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Contacts: >>>> >>>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>>> >>>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>>> >>>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>>> pushed >>>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>>> rights >>>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin campaign >>>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>>> candidate >>>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for stating >>>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>>> people >>>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint >>>> judges >>>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the Americans >>>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim Ward. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and conservatives' >>>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>>> include >>>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after successfully >>>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>>> has >>>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in >>>> concepts >> >>>> of >>>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs >>>> are >>>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our communities. >>>> We >>>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>>> but >>>> equal members of our communities." >>>> >>>> >>>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>>> that >>>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice >>>> organizations >>>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>>> with >>>> physical and mental disabilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 >>> 9:51 AM >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 04:10:05 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:10:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811021925t56e5101cla9cf61563f7f41fd@mail.gmail.com> <015301c93e14$64284ac0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <007501c93e33$38a34c50$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> The same thing happened during a choir rehersel in high school. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > I'll second observing similar behavior at NFB conventions, especially > national. Having said that, it's not just blind people, believe me. I > remember at high school tallent shows and college class meetings, most > people were cheering for the performer or their class president, but it > got a bit loud for me sometimes. Another example, at a band rehearsal in > high school, most people were out right fooling around and not paying > attention to the music. My band teacher tried a strategy: singling me and > another student out as doing exactly what we were supposed to do, although > neither of us were reading music. The strategy worked to some extent, > although one of the drummers ended up having to scream "shut up!" to get > everybody to be quiet. > > Serena > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> Arielle, >> >> I agree. They may behave inappropriately because they are not motivated >> to change their behavior. >> Parents giving rewards and taking them to places where they can practice >> the skills and observe with their other senses how to act are the best >> things I can think of. >> >> I see many inappropriate behaviors at gatherings of blind people in the >> NFB. I don't want to offend anyone, but this does not give me a positive >> view of the nfb. I am a member of a chapter but I question whether I >> want to hang around people who thing they are the center of the world and >> really don't care about others who try and help. >> I was raised to say thanks and please at the right time as well as >> politely decline help if I don't need it. >> >> Some behaviors I witness: >> 1. people answering their >> phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room >> >> 2. talking while someone else is speaking; so many side conversations in >> the room and makes it difficult to hear; I've been to many meetings for >> internships, Student government meetings to observe, and club meetings >> and never do I see such behavior; if someone is inattentive they are >> doing something quiet like reading or texting on the phone, but not >> disrupting the meeting >> 3. Interrupting a conversation. >> 4. When discussing something like an event where people just generally >> talk and the officers hear ideas, members talk to one part of the room >> rather than the whole room of people. >> 5. Placement of canes; I know NFB likes straight canes; I personally use >> folding for convenience. But if you choose to use a straight cane, it >> is your responsibility to place it in a way where others won't trip. >> Placing it where it sticks out from the table is a tripping hazzard. I >> place mine under my feet or fold it and place it by my chair and its >> small so does not stick out. >> 6. General manners; sighted people have to read menus at dinner meetings >> which are the usual thing to meet at a restaurant for us. Few people >> thank them for their help. >> 7. People leave early because their ride is there. Why come at all if >> you have to come early or leave late. Its disruptive when people don't >> stay for the whole meeting. I rarely see this at other events other than >> at events with blind people. Even at college with immature students, >> they come for the who event or not at all. If they do have to leave >> early they leave quietly and sit near the door so they can slip out when >> needed. >> >> Okay I know this was a novel, but it really got me to thinking when >> social etiquette came up about the rude behaviors I see at NFB events. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I appreciate everyone's responses on these threads; you will help to >>> contribute to an excellent, informative page on the NABS Web site >>> geared toward transitioning youth. I would definitely like to include >>> skill areas as well as suggestions for practical things that students >>> can do to improve in those areas in preparation for either college or >>> work. Obviously we will emphasize the importance of receiving good >>> training (from an NFB center etc.), but what are suggestions for some >>> other ways that students can learn/practice skills? >>> >>> I also agree that many blind people do not behave in accordance with >>> etiquette rules--my point is just that I think in many cases, it's not >>> just because they "don't know better" but because they don't feel >>> motivated to change their behavior. If people are not held to high >>> expectations they may know intellectually that something should or >>> shouldn't be done in public (and be able to explain it to you, etc.) >>> but they haven't had any reason to care about their behavior. That's >>> why I'm skeptical that simply telling someone that a behavior is >>> inappropriate once is really enough to motivate them to >>> change--although being nagged might be an incentive in the short term. >>> I also think it's important to understand this when we observe others >>> around us who don't follow social conventions--it's not necessarily >>> that they innocently don't know any differently, but rather that they >>> may know it intellectually but not really understand it on an >>> emotional level, or they may simply not care unless they have some >>> personal incentive to act in a more appropriate way. >>> >>> On the Web site we can certainly suggest ways for high school students >>> to get involved in real social situations (such as joining >>> extracurriculars or shopping with friends) where they will not only >>> learn these rules/skills but also develop real incentives to attend to >>> their social behavior. For example, when I was in high school I did >>> competitive speech for two years and there were certain nonverbal >>> behaviors that we were all expected to do. I knew if I wanted to win >>> the round, I had to do my best to make eye contact with the judges, >>> stand straight, use appropriate gestures and not rock, for example. >>> People could remind me about those things a thousand times in class or >>> at home, but it was in a speech tournament where those things really >>> mattered in a tangible way that I really started paying closer >>> attention to them. >>> >>> Other thoughts besides the extracurricular and shopping examples I gave >>> above? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>> That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's nails. I >>>> admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. God >>>> knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>> gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of eyes, >>>> moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with me. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and still >>>>>> struggle >>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>>> occasionally. >>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>>>people. >>>>>> Why >>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and have >>>>>>to >>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a bunch >>>>>>of >>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers out >>>>>>of >>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my age, >>>>>>or >>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think much of >>>>>>my >>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their behavior >>>>>>is >>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>>> >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>> >Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>> >Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> >I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>high >>>>>> >school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>> >beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>sheet is >>>>>> >that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>the >>>>>> >situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>there is >>>>>> >more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>to >>>>>> >be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>setting >>>>>> >may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>Really what >>>>>> >I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>and >>>>>> >"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>those >>>>>> >situations. >>>>>> >>>>>> >I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>> >sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>> >intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>> >behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>knowing >>>>>> >what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>order >>>>>> >to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>be >>>>>> >motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>> >behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>picks >>>>>> >his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>that >>>>>> >it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>it's >>>>>> >inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>> >doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>him for >>>>>> >doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>the >>>>>> >situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>for >>>>>> >picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>not >>>>>> >pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>doing >>>>>> >it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>inside >>>>>> >his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>> >etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>> >self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>behaviors >>>>>> >commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>become so >>>>>> >habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>stop >>>>>> >they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>of a >>>>>> >behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>> >unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>motivated >>>>>> >to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>it. >>>>>> >(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>conversations >>>>>> >with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>and >>>>>> >still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>> >different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>the >>>>>> >negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>there >>>>>> >are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>care, >>>>>> >or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>their >>>>>> >time so they're not late, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>their >>>>>> >social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>> >but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>than >>>>>> >sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>they've >>>>>> >been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>other >>>>>> >people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>emphasis >>>>>> >should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>> >conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>social >>>>>> >situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>> >telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>good >>>>>> >behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>> >eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>to >>>>>> >observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>experience that >>>>>> >following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>makes >>>>>> >them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>>> >>>>>> >So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>> >Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>>> >nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3575 (20081031) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Tue Nov 4 04:20:05 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:20:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD and Braille Notes In-Reply-To: <1015C2CF5F4941529696C37B63E2A82D@shannon> References: <1015C2CF5F4941529696C37B63E2A82D@shannon> Message-ID: He/she is right. Contact RFB&\D to get a Key for the Braille Note. Dave At 06:59 PM 11/3/2008, you wrote: >Hi. > >My vocational rehabilitation counselor told me that I could play RFB >books using the Daisy Player on my Braille Note. I'm wondering if >any of you know if this is true, since it's something I'd not heard >before. Also, there's nothing on the RFB page that indicates that >this is true. So, I'm thinking it's not. > >I would appreciate any help you can give. > >Shannon >Who can heal, but one who has healed herself? >Who can know, but one who has asked and sought? >Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way? >--ancient French proverb >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.6/1765 - Release Date: >11/3/2008 4:59 PM From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 4 05:33:08 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 00:33:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah for sure. I still struggle with athletics. It's a tough one - I'll think on it and see what I come up with. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Heather Rasmussen Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> > Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these feelings.> > I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities that I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really say--but when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > Harry> > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote:> > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy.> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old,> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with,> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he> wouldn't give up.> Beth> > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote:> > I would just like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> go> > out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> people> > were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted> > person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because> I> > my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them> > over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school> > still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often> that> > way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it> > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even> listen to> > the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you> walk> > the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> > level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the> other> > hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they> > don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the> other> > hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days> I> > know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high> > GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't> have> > time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't,> just too> > busy!> >> >> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children> > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind> > NFB National Center: > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.com I can sympathize with all you people who don't have any friends. I don't have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, like Karry's son, I'm so busy with school that I really don't do much else right now. Still, it's kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid talk about what they did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday afternoon together after school. Then there's the problem that I go to a small school where anyone who didn't grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits in. It gets really lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. I've had several people tell me that it gets better in college, because you meet more people who think like you do. Any thoughts on that? Heather _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the go-take your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From yvgarcia at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 06:27:04 2008 From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 00:27:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Ohio Student Division and Toledo chapterrevitalization References: <490E8078.2060709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201c93e46$5c78c020$0201a8c0@yolanda> Congratulations Robby on reviving the student division and being elected state student division president! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but JJ Medaugh is your NABS board member regional representative. What this means is that he is the appointed person on a national level that will help assist you in helping strengthen and build your division. He can be reached at jj at bestmidi.com. We are all here and committed to helping your division grow. If you have any questions, never hesitate to ask them on the listserve or to any of the NABS board members directly off list. Warmest Regards, Yolanda NABS Board Member ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Ohio Student Division and Toledo chapterrevitalization > Hello Federationalists, > > I have just returned from our state convention here in Ohio where a few > interesting events took place. The one of which I would like to cover the > most in this email is the return of the NFB of Ohio student division. I > myself was elected president and another member, who is on this list as > Annie, was elected to be secretary/treasurer. Although I may have done > this several times before, I would like to take this opportunity to > introduce myself and give everyone my contact information, especially > those students from Ohio who are interested in taking part in the student > division. > > I go by Robby and I am a 20-year old Sophomore attending the University of > Toledo in northwest Ohio. I am currently pursuing a major in Political > Science and a minor in Spanish which I may later turn into a major. I am > also a member of student senate which is part of student government at the > University of Toledo. Basically, I listen, vote, and pass resolutions > that inform the administrators of the university what the students think - > collectively, of course. I also have a strong background in computers and > am taking a computer science course in UNIX administration and C > programming. > > If anyone wants to get ahold of me, feel free to email me at this address, > spangler.robert at gmail.com. I can also be reached at > robert.spangler at utoledo.edu. I can be found on Facebook under Robby > Spangler. If you wish to talk by phone, please email me first off-list. > > The last issue I would like to touch on is the revitalization of a NFB > chapter here in the Toledo/northwest Ohio area. Anyone from Toledo or > surrounding areas interested in this please contact me. This would be a > great opportunity for blind people in this region. > > Thanks everyone, > Robby > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 06:29:18 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:29:18 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811031156p315ba45fk9ae90d5623ca3027@mail.gmail.com> <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, This is such an interesting topic and it is great to see such a lively discussion! I can definitely relate to the difficulties that many of you describe with friendship and dating in the sighted world. In my experience the problem goes both ways—some sighted people may keep us at arm's length, but at least as much awkwardness can come from our own fears of rejection or of trusting sighted acquaintances and opening up to them. I often remind myself that I probably think about my blindness in a social interaction much more than my sighted partner actually does. As for dating, while I agree that tensions between blind and sighted can compound the tensions that can exist between the sexes already, we also have to remember that thousands of blind people (in the NFB and out) have found happy long-term romantic relationships, both with blind and sighted partners. So although blindness can present challenges, it by no means sets us up for loneliness. Many of the most prominent figures in the NFB are happily married, and I figure that if they can do it, so can I. And speaking of other blind people, I can't overstate the value and joy that can come with building friendships with others who are blind—for people of all ages. I think becoming friends with other blind people where the normal tensions and awkwardness between blind and sighted are absent is a great way to develop self-confidence and practice other social skills, like listening, building trust, managing conflicts and becoming a leader. Of course, this doesn't mean that we should segregate from the sighted world and only associate with other blind people—we can and should build connections with all kinds of people around us and not restrict ourselves to just the blind or just the sighted. But getting to know other blind people can be a great support against the challenges of being regarded as second-class citizens, and together we can work to share strategies for solving blindness-related problems, as the NFB has clearly demonstrated. In Phoenix where I grew up, we had a local nonprofit organization that sponsored weekend programs and summer day camps for blind kids. These programs were nothing like the NFB training centers in terms of philosophy, but through my participation I was lucky enough to meet other blind kids around my age who were, and still are, some of my closest friends. I first started meeting these kids at the end of elementary school. Though I have been blind all my life and never thought blindness was really a big deal, it was around that time when I really started to understand that "blindness mattered" to other sighted kids and adults. In the sighted world around me (at school, Hebrew school or with my family) I was generally quiet and well-behaved and focused on my schoolwork. But when I got with my blind peers, I would get talkative, joke around, flirt with boys, and even help mastermind some good-natured pranks on the other kids and teachers. I still remember running around on the playground at the day camp and feeling totally free—not being told that I had to sit out the action because I was blind, not being tethered to some kid's elbow when I wanted to go somewhere, and being teased in a fun way by the other kids instead of just being treated politely or ignored. Since the blind kids around me treated me like their equal, I was free to be myself, reveal my insecurities, take social risks and eventually assert myself as a leader in the group. I still feel the same sense of freedom today when I meet new "partners in crime" in the NFB (although my prankster days are, mostly, behind me!) Today most of my close friends happen to be blind—and yet, despite my introverted tendencies and worries about not fitting in with the sighted, I have been able to take some big social risks. I spent five months in a foreign country where I knew nobody, sighted or blind, for example. I seriously doubt that I would have had the confidence or the social skill to do that or to become active in groups on campus if I had not had those early deep connections with blind peers and the ones I have today in the NFB. As ambitious blind students who strive for the best, we can sit and criticize the indecent behavior going on at our chapter meetings. We can be part of the solution by giving our blind friends feedback about their social behavior. Or we can go further—by reaching out to the blind community around us and seeking out mentors, friends and mentees. Each of us has a lot to learn from others around us who are blind, and a lot to teach them as well. That is the beauty of our organization, and I hope we can all make the most of it. Cheers Arielle On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Yeah for sure. I still struggle with athletics. It's a tough one - I'll > think on it and see what I come up with. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Heather Rasmussen > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> > Great topic, guys. I > have never had really close friends, either. Een in college, I neer > developed close relationships--more like people I talk to during class, etc. > Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a group and jsut > naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one or two ther > people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and really like > it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish table once a > weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is good to know > that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these feelings.> > I > would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not > some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else > feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports > and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities > that I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really > say--but when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that > it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the > way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person > to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted > sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I > think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and > making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > Harry> > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth > wrote:> > From: Beth > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: > Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are right, Carey. The people in > question could be too busy.> However, may I point out that my younger > brother, eighteen years old,> already has a girlfriend and runs around > everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted person who has a > significant other, and you> know why he has her? Because he can immitate > appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social > skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to > winning a> successful date and keeping that significant other is having > good> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a> > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with,> the > nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a> blind > student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it> just makes > sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I> admit I did a > few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he> wouldn't give up.> Beth> >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote:> > I would just > like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan has not had many social offers > himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is key-respected- in class and in > the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > that blind people maybe > especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > told him once that to > eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> go> > out, he needed to > call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> people> > were not going > to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted> > person, I can > tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because> I> > my self > kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them> > over, I > remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school> > still, but > most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often> that> > way, > some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it> > > mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even> listen to> >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that there are people who will avoid the > blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I think it can affect fro > your end too, in the can you> walk> > the walk you talk totally? Like that > little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> > level and independence is not > truly equal that can effect. But on the> other> > hand kids know Jordan is > equal to them in school, I think sometimes they> > don't realize he is > equally independent out of school too. On the> other> > hand, he is often > too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days> I> > know a lot of > students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high> > GPA, working > jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't> have> > time much > either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't,> just too> > busy!> >> >>> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > National Organization of Parents of > Blind Children> > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind> > NFB > National Center: > _______________________________________________> nabs-l > mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.com > I can sympathize with all you people who don't have any friends. I don't > have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, like Karry's son, I'm so > busy with school that I really don't do much else right now. Still, it's > kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid talk about what they > did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday afternoon together after school. > Then there's the problem that I go to a small school where anyone who didn't > grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits in. It gets really > lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. I've had several people > tell me that it gets better in college, because you meet more people who > think like you do. Any thoughts on that? > Heather > _________________________________________________________________ > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From yvgarcia at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 06:33:44 2008 From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 00:33:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IABS Election References: Message-ID: <006c01c93e47$4a6198c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> Congratulations to all of the newly elected student division board members. We in NABS look forward to working closely with y'all and have high hopes to expect good things from y'all. As I previously mentioned, never hesitate to contact JJ as he is your National Representative. And of course, we always extend the offer to contact anyone who currently sits on the board. Warmest Regards, Yolanda ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: [nabs-l] IABS Election > Hello, > > The Illinois Association of Blind Students held its election of officers > and > the Board this past weekend during our Fall Business meeting in Bradley, > Illinois. Thank you to everyone who served on the Board the previous term > as > well as to all those who ran for office this term. The new Board members > are: > President: Aly Slaughter > First Vice President: Michelle Wesley > Second Vice President: Brandi Winecki > Secretary: Aricelli Avina > Treasurer: Ronza Othman > Board Member: Debbie Stein > Board Member: Cassandra Certeza > > Congratulations to the new Board. > > Sincerely, > Ronza Othman, Treasurer > Illinois Association of Blind Students > > > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/yvgarcia%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 4 07:40:45 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 02:40:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <161791FAF32E43CFA8174FCFB037276B@owner96190708e> References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> <161791FAF32E43CFA8174FCFB037276B@owner96190708e> Message-ID: That's a good point. I think with the advent of cell phones should have come an etiquette class. Grin. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette With great respect, I must beg to differ with yu on one of these behaviors. I have observed as many, if not more, sighted persons answering their frickin' phones in meetings, in restaurants, while on the bus or in other less-than-ideal situations, than I have blind persons. There have been state conventions where I almost was ready to enforce a phone-check at the door, i.e., require *all* persons to hand over their phones at registration, said phones to be returned after the last session. (grin) Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but unfortunately true. I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind majority. Thanks, Robby Hope Paulos wrote: > Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be > a > wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of > others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several > "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would > poke > my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, > my > grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was > so > proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why > she > insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially > inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when > people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even > know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the > people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their > eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to > not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not > sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it > in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i > apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that > would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged > in > age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these > behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time > for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have > been extinguished fully. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > >> Hi all, > >> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for > high >> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact > sheet is >> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on > the >> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as > there is >> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way > to >> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one > setting >> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. > Really what >> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations > and >> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in > those >> situations. > >> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply > knowing >> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In > order >> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also > be >> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who > picks >> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know > that >> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told > it's >> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish > him for >> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in > the >> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble > for >> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to > not >> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's > doing >> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch > inside >> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some > behaviors >> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can > become so >> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to > stop >> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example > of a >> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are > motivated >> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating > it. >> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from > conversations >> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop > and >> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about > the >> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but > there >> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't > care, >> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize > their >> time so they're not late, etc. > >> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve > their >> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate > (knowledge), >> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated > than >> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because > they've >> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see > other >> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the > emphasis >> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different > social >> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for > good >> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around > to >> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through > experience that >> following social norms and initiating connections with others > makes >> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. > >> So how do we do this? Any ideas? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine..edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 4 07:44:01 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 02:44:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I often go it alone, more because I'm afraid to ask someone for help because I think they'll have to make a special trip to do something with me. Canes and food make an interesting combo though - I try to stick to bowls if I can, avoid soup entirely when travelling with it, and put whatever I can (bottled drinks, packaged things/things that won't spill, in bags that I can hang off my wrist or something. But it does take some practice and is by no means fool proof. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends because I don't want to look weird or anything. Beth On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: > Hi Harry > > I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love > bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted people > really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the > middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent > post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! > He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind person > as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to ask > him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > > Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in > college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to > during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a > group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like one > or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd lol--and > really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish > table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is > good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these > feelings. > > I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, not > some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else > feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the sports > and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities that > I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really say--but > when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is > entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way > they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person to > bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted > sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I > think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and > making friends, etc. Thoughts? > > Harry > > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: > > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM > > You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. > However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, > already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am > envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you > know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social > skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a > prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a > successful date and keeping that significant other is having good > social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, > the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a > blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it > just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I > admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he > wouldn't give up. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >> >> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and > this >> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have > found >> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to > go >> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, > people >> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted >> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because > I >> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often > that >> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even > listen to >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do > lunch on >> Thursday and catch up? >> >> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though >> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you > walk >> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your > skill >> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the > other >> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the > other >> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days > I >> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high >> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't > have >> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, > just too >> busy! >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 08:56:44 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 03:56:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081102192626.FJUT20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <490E8625.5070205@gmail.com> <161791FAF32E43CFA8174FCFB037276B@owner96190708e> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811040056u7cdcdd8emda1b218915389b49@mail.gmail.com> I'm all about phone checks at the door of all business meetings, (grin), but I'm a big fan of "Please turn off all cell phones and beepers" spoken out loud like it is at St. Thomas Moor church every single Sunday. YOu know what's really annoying is when cell phones go off during mass at church and the priest is in the middle of something so good it makes you wanna cry. Beth On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > That's a good point. I think with the advent of cell phones should have come > an etiquette class. Grin. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > With great respect, I must beg to differ with yu on one of these > behaviors. I have observed as many, if not more, sighted persons > answering their frickin' phones in meetings, in restaurants, while on > the bus or in other less-than-ideal situations, than I have blind > persons. There have been state conventions where I almost was ready to > enforce a phone-check at the door, i.e., require *all* persons to hand > over their phones at registration, said phones to be returned after the > last session. (grin) > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Spangler" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > > This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that > totally irritated me. While the original poster did state that both > sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of > inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more > among blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. > People feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially > acceptable and what isn't. They are not expected to be responsible for > their etiquette in public because people don't expect that they will > work with their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. > It's sad but unfortunately true. > > I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their > phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room > and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the > inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a > blind majority. > > Thanks, > Robby > Hope Paulos wrote: >> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be >> a >> wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of >> others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had several >> "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would >> poke >> my eye. My parents would not allow me to do this. When I got older, >> my >> grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured. She said she was >> so >> proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why >> she >> insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >> inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, when >> people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even >> know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the >> people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking their >> eyes. She needed to put a stop to these behaviors. She wanted me to >> not be laughed at and to be socially appropriate. Arielle, I'm not >> sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it >> in. It is in no way my intention to offend people. If I have i >> apologize. When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that >> would make certain sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged >> in >> age from 9 to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these >> behaviors at those ages. The students progressed when it came time >> for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >> been extinguished fully. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >> high >>> school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>> beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >> sheet is >>> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >> the >>> situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >> there is >>> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >> to >>> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >> setting >>> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >> Really what >>> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >> and >>> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >> those >>> situations. >> >>> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>> behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >> knowing >>> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >> order >>> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >> be >>> motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>> behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >> picks >>> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >> that >>> it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >> it's >>> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >> him for >>> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >> the >>> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >> for >>> picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >> not >>> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >> doing >>> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >> inside >>> his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >> behaviors >>> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >> become so >>> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >> stop >>> they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >> of a >>> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >> motivated >>> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >> it. >>> (Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >> conversations >>> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >> and >>> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >> the >>> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >> there >>> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >> care, >>> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >> their >>> time so they're not late, etc. >> >>> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >> their >>> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >> (knowledge), >>> but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >> than >>> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >> they've >>> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >> other >>> people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >> emphasis >>> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >> social >>> situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>> telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >> good >>> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >> to >>> observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >> experience that >>> following social norms and initiating connections with others >> makes >>> them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >> >>> So how do we do this? Any ideas? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine..edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm > ail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 09:05:41 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 04:05:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811040105g3693a3e6r1eb737db85056bc3@mail.gmail.com> Boy. Canes and food make a good combo for sure. As far as blind friends go, Arielle, I'm kind of nervous about the idea of blind friends. I currently have a blind friend who's not speaking to me because of something another friend since junior college told him. One of the members of this list and I talk on the phone and we said sometime ago that sometimes, people have nothing better to do than spread rumors in the blind community, which can have adverse effects on people's frienships. Yes, this happens in the sighted world too, but I feel it can be more compounded in the blind community because we need each other so bad. This friend, the one who's not speakng to me currently, I saw in person, but he seems so unchangeable. It worries me if people do change. I think there is one skill we need to learn, and it's something we can talk more about on the Faith-talk list, but I think we could talk about it here as well because it's important for students, adults, kids, everybody: we mustlearn to ward off false rumors about each other, learn to know the truth about someone, and most of all, learn forgiveness amongst other things. People like my frend don't seem to have it down pat, but that skill will win you more friends and good bosses in the work world in my opinion. Beth On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I often go it alone, more because I'm afraid to ask someone for help because > I think they'll have to make a special trip to do something with me. Canes > and food make an interesting combo though - I try to stick to bowls if I > can, avoid soup entirely when travelling with it, and put whatever I can > (bottled drinks, packaged things/things that won't spill, in bags that I can > hang off my wrist or something. But it does take some practice and is by no > means fool proof. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with > friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to > concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is > fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't > know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand > and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; > and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an > appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends > because I don't want to look weird or anything. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >> Hi Harry >> >> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted > people >> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the >> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! >> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind person >> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to ask >> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in >> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to >> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in a >> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like > one >> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd > lol--and >> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish >> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is >> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these >> feelings. >> >> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, > not >> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else >> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the > sports >> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities > that >> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really > say--but >> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is >> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way >> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person > to >> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted >> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I >> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >> >> Harry >> >> >> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >> >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >> >> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >> wouldn't give up. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>> >>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and >> this >>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >> found >>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to >> go >>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >> people >>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a > sighted >>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are > because >> I >>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >> that >>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >> listen to >>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >> lunch on >>> Thursday and catch up? >>> >>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are > though >>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you >> walk >>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >> skill >>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >> other >>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >> other >>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these > days >> I >>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high >>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >> have >>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >> just too >>> busy! >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Tue Nov 4 13:06:51 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:06:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD and Braille Notes Message-ID: <20081104130618.YGNP15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi. Yes, you can, but a $20 uak (user authentication key) must be purchased from Rfbd and installed into the bn. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "solsticesinger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 18:59:54 -0600 >Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD and Braille Notes >Hi. >My vocational rehabilitation counselor told me that I could play RFB books using the Daisy Player on my Braille Note. I'm wondering if any of you know if this is true, since it's something I'd not heard before. Also, there's nothing on the RFB page that indicates that this is true. So, I'm thinking it's not. >I would appreciate any help you can give. >Shannon >Who can heal, but one who has healed herself? >Who can know, but one who has asked and sought? >Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way? >--ancient French proverb >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 14:11:28 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:11:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Take Action: Vote No on Question One In-Reply-To: <14818C1BAE83466B813B983689AF6DFB@user0b70da9c0d> References: <14818C1BAE83466B813B983689AF6DFB@user0b70da9c0d> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811040611j1dd41d4bk8ab7696ef3d32053@mail.gmail.com> I don't live in Massachusetts, but I am hoping this "question" is not passed. Beth On 10/21/08, Kristina Constant wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kim Charlson, Perkins Braille & Talking Book Library" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:00 AM > Subject: Take Action: Vote No on Question One > > >> Perkins School for the Blind: All we see is possibility... >> http://support.perkins.org/site/R?i=mV2-eijKqWAckDbY2tFAeQ.. >> >> >> >> Please take time to read this important message about your Perkins Library >> >> services! Feel free to forward it, and try emailing the informational >> ecard to your friends and family to let them know how important this issue >> >> is for the future of your library services. >> >> Dear Library Borrower, >> >> As a library borrower, you know better than anyone how important your >> accessible library services are for the enrichment of your life. When >> society invests in education, learning and information access, people with >> >> disabilities are empowered to their fullest potential because they have >> the resources they need to succeed. >> >> On Tuesday, November 4, in Massachusetts, a ballot question has the >> potential to seriously compromise every person's right to quality library >> services and could result in drastic funding cutbacks for both the Perkins >> >> Braille & Talking Book Library and the Worcester Talking Book Library, >> along with many other critical services from the Commonwealth. Question 1 >> proposes to cut the state budget by $12 billion - or 40 percent of the >> overall budget by ending the personal income tax. >> >> If approved, the measure would have devastating consequences on all >> talking book and braille services and programs, and other services Perkins >> >> provides to babies, students, professionals, and elders. >> >> Ballot Question 1 threatens all of the specialized services Perkins >> provides, including the Perkins Library and its team of hard-working and >> talented staff, from continuing to provide quality accessible library >> services you need to enjoy reading and have access to information for >> education, recreational reading or for life-long learning. Accessible >> format books and other materials are far more costly than print editions. >> Providing books on tape, large print, braille and in other formats through >> >> the Perkins Library also requires specialized equipment and trained staff. >> >> Other services the library offers, such as Newsline (newspaper access over >> >> the telephone), the magazine program and other information services, would >> >> all be in danger of being cut as well. >> >> If Question 1 is passed, the Perkins Library and the Worcester Talking >> Book Library, along with other public libraries across the Commonwealth, >> specialized schools and other human service agencies would be forced to >> make difficult decisions such as reducing salaries and cutting staff >> positions. In fact, all of these programs may be forced to eliminate >> services altogether. >> >> At its September 4, 2008 monthly Board meeting, The Massachusetts Board of >> >> Library Commissioners (MBLC), the state agency that provides the funding >> for the Perkins and Worcester libraries, voted to oppose Question 1 on the >> >> basis that its enactment would essentially eliminate library services, >> programs, networks and entire systems that have made Massachusetts >> libraries among the strongest in the nation. >> >> The MBLC Board unanimously approved the following motion: >> >> "Be it resolved that as the primary stewards of library service for all >> residents of the Commonwealth, the Board of Library Commissioners opposes >> Question 1 on the basis that its enactment would have a severe impact on >> all types of libraries in Massachusetts and would result especially in an >> overwhelming and wholly destructive loss of public library services that >> are fundamental to the educational, social and economic well-being of all >> residents of the Commonwealth." >> >> Income tax revenue generates about $12 billion of the state's $28 billion >> annual operating budget. The Secretary of the Executive Office of >> Administration and Finance stated that the loss of the income tax would >> result in a 60% across-the-board cut in state budgets. Rather than a >> single across-the-board budget reduction, the MBLC Board believes that it >> is much more likely that all state funding for library programs would be >> eliminated. >> >> "Everything that the MBLC and the libraries worked so hard to create since >> >> the Board's inception in 1890 would be destroyed," stated MBLC Chairman, >> George T. Comeau. "Instead of every resident in the Commonwealth having >> equal access to library services, libraries would be a luxury reserved for >> >> wealthy communities that can afford to pay for them." >> >> The elimination of the state income tax would negatively impact >> Massachusetts libraries in the following ways: >> >> - The Board of Library Commissioners itself would continue to exist, but >> it would have no budget and no staff >> - Elimination of State Aid to Public Libraries in place since 1890 >> - Elimination of regional library systems and library of last recourse >> - Elimination of talking book libraries for the blind and disabled >> - Elimination of funding for automated networks and licensed electronic >> content >> - Elimination of the public library construction program >> - Elimination of Federal Library Services and Technology Act grants and >> statewide services >> >> Commissioner Irving Zangwill, (a member of the Perkins Braille & Talking >> Book Library Consumer Advisory Board) summarized the impact, "This is the >> very worst that could happen. To try to rebuild after something like this >> would be impossible." >> >> Help make sure access to special format materials to meet the reading and >> information needs of people with disabilities continues to be available. >> Eliminating personal income tax and cutting the overall state budget is >> not the answer. >> >> If Question 1 is passed, the Perkins Braille & Talking Book Library will >> either be drastically reduced or might even be forced to close. >> >> Please consider the negative impact a "yes" vote on Question 1 would have >> on the future of education, libraries and many other services in >> Massachusetts when you cast your ballot. Many of these programs are basic >> commitments of a civilized society to educate and empower all of its >> citizens. >> >> Please talk with your friends and family about Question 1 and emphasize >> the importance of defeating this harmful ballot question with your "no" >> vote. Your future library services may very well depend on it. >> >> For additional information on Ballot Question 1, visit >> http://support.perkins.org/site/R?i=VfFfaL-QRIw2Yxc2g7Bwtg.. or call >> 617-284-1208. >> >> To send an informational eCard, visit >> http://support.perkins.org/site/R?i=I_jzKSFRVk1Plps9nrwubg.. . >> >> Sincerely, >> The Friends of the Perkins Braille & Talking Book Library >> >> To make sure that our emails continue to reach you, please take a >> moment to add this message's "from" address (Get-Involved at Perkins.org) to >> your email address book. >> >> You can tell your friends to sign up with us at: >> http://support.perkins.org/site/R?i=7LO5Au1_XcaxJkoBRKfUXg.. >> >> Unsubscribe from receiving email, change your email preferences, or >> update your personal profile at >> http://psb.convio.net/site/CO?i=Z7cV7AnhzvPD3IJRO-m7h_jjSXO0yR3w&cid=1026 >> >> Perkins School for the Blind >> 175 North Beacon Street >> Watertown, Massachusetts 02472 >> Phone 617-972-7469 >> Email Us at Get-Involved at Perkins.org >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From passionflower505 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 14:22:09 2008 From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 06:22:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <558928.33658.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I understand where you guys are coming from in that you dont want to be a burden, but what i have found is that most of the time, people dont mind, but i always offer to do something in return, i always give gas money, and if someone helps me with shopping or something then i might buy their lunch. a lot of times my friends say that they dont need that, but i still think that its important to do, because you dont want to use them. the relationship has to give both ways. Ss for doing things by yourself, i think its important to first try to do something by yourself rather than to initially rely on friends, because even though they probably care about you, your needs shouldn't become their number one concern. That beign said, there are definitely situations in which i am a lot more successful when someone is around, but i dont think that the presence of someone else should detour you from trying something. those are just my opinions. Cindy --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 1:29 AM > Hi all, > > This is such an interesting topic and it is great to see > such a lively > discussion! > > I can definitely relate to the difficulties that many of > you describe > with friendship and dating in the sighted world. In my > experience the > problem goes both ways—some sighted people may keep us at > arm's > length, but at least as much awkwardness can come from our > own fears > of rejection or of trusting sighted acquaintances and > opening up to > them. I often remind myself that I probably think about my > blindness > in a social interaction much more than my sighted partner > actually > does. As for dating, while I agree that tensions between > blind and > sighted can compound the tensions that can exist between > the sexes > already, we also have to remember that thousands of blind > people (in > the NFB and out) have found happy long-term romantic > relationships, > both with blind and sighted partners. So although > blindness can > present challenges, it by no means sets us up for > loneliness. Many of > the most prominent figures in the NFB are happily married, > and I > figure that if they can do it, so can I. > > And speaking of other blind people, I can't overstate > the value and > joy that can come with building friendships with others who > are > blind—for people of all ages. I think becoming friends > with other > blind people where the normal tensions and awkwardness > between blind > and sighted are absent is a great way to develop > self-confidence and > practice other social skills, like listening, building > trust, managing > conflicts and becoming a leader. Of course, this > doesn't mean that we > should segregate from the sighted world and only associate > with other > blind people—we can and should build connections with all > kinds of > people around us and not restrict ourselves to just the > blind or just > the sighted. But getting to know other blind people can be > a great > support against the challenges of being regarded as > second-class > citizens, and together we can work to share strategies for > solving > blindness-related problems, as the NFB has clearly > demonstrated. > > In Phoenix where I grew up, we had a local nonprofit > organization > that sponsored weekend programs and summer day camps for > blind kids. > These programs were nothing like the NFB training centers > in terms of > philosophy, but through my participation I was lucky enough > to meet > other blind kids around my age who were, and still are, > some of my > closest friends. I first started meeting these kids at the > end of > elementary school. Though I have been blind all my life and > never > thought blindness was really a big deal, it was around that > time when > I really started to understand that "blindness > mattered" to other > sighted kids and adults. In the sighted world around me (at > school, > Hebrew school or with my family) I was generally quiet and > well-behaved and focused on my schoolwork. But when I got > with my > blind peers, I would get talkative, joke around, flirt with > boys, and > even help mastermind some good-natured pranks on the other > kids and > teachers. I still remember running around on the playground > at the day > camp and feeling totally free—not being told that I had > to sit out the > action because I was blind, not being tethered to some > kid's elbow > when I wanted to go somewhere, and being teased in a fun > way by the > other kids instead of just being treated politely or > ignored. Since > the blind kids around me treated me like their equal, I was > free to be > myself, reveal my insecurities, take social risks and > eventually > assert myself as a leader in the group. I still feel the > same sense of > freedom today when I meet new "partners in crime" > in the NFB (although > my prankster days are, mostly, behind me!) Today most of my > close > friends happen to be blind—and yet, despite my > introverted tendencies > and worries about not fitting in with the sighted, I have > been able to > take some big social risks. I spent five months in a > foreign country > where I knew nobody, sighted or blind, for example. I > seriously doubt > that I would have had the confidence or the social skill to > do that or > to become active in groups on campus if I had not had those > early deep > connections with blind peers and the ones I have today in > the NFB. > > As ambitious blind students who strive for the best, we can > sit and > criticize the indecent behavior going on at our chapter > meetings. We > can be part of the solution by giving our blind friends > feedback about > their social behavior. Or we can go further—by reaching > out to the > blind community around us and seeking out mentors, friends > and > mentees. Each of us has a lot to learn from others around > us who are > blind, and a lot to teach them as well. That is the beauty > of our > organization, and I hope we can all make the most of it. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar > wrote: > > Yeah for sure. I still struggle with athletics. > It's a tough one - I'll > > think on it and see what I come up with. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > > Of Heather Rasmussen > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:10 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: > harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > freinds> > Great topic, guys. I > > have never had really close friends, either. Een in > college, I neer > > developed close relationships--more like people I talk > to during class, etc. > > Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in > a group and jsut > > naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people > (like one or two ther > > people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a > nerd lol--and really like > > it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the > Spanish table once a > > weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. > It is good to know > > that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from > these feelings.> > I > > would loe to get out there and be able to play > soccer--the real thing, not > > some weird modified ersion with sighted people > helping. Does anyone else > > feel this way? If this is better addressed either off > list or on the sports > > and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of > extracurricular activities > > that I would like to participate in but can't. > Soemthign we don't really > > say--but when we say that people can participate > equally--I don't know that > > it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted > I've never done it the > > way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of > a totally blind person > > to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out > sighted help that > > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and > the other adapted > > sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I > don't know much about, but I > > think it does fit in well with our discussion of > social integration and > > making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > Harry> > > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth > > wrote:> > > From: Beth > > > Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National > > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: > > Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are > right, Carey. The people in > > question could be too busy.> However, may I point > out that my younger > > brother, eighteen years old,> already has a > girlfriend and runs around > > everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted > person who has a > > significant other, and you> know why he has her? > Because he can immitate > > appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in > having good social > > skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the > oppoite sex. The key to > > winning a> successful date and keeping that > significant other is having > > good> social skills. I have a young man in college > here at FSU who is a> > > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people > I've dealt with,> the > > nature of blindness and its accessories because his > mom had a> blind > > student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this > issue and it> just makes > > sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a > friend. I> admit I did a > > few things he didn't like, but then he admitted > he> wouldn't give up.> Beth> > >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer > wrote:> > I would just > > like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan > has not had many social offers > > himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is > key-respected- in class and in > > the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > > that blind people maybe > > especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > > told him once that to > > eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> > go> > out, he needed to > > call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> > people> > were not going > > to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a > sighted> > person, I can > > tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are > because> I> > my self > > kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I > invited them> > over, I > > remembered the birthday card. I have friends from > grade school> > still, but > > most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often> that> > way, > > some people are better at it. I never care or make > anyone feel it> > > > mattered if they haven't called me for three > years, I don't even> listen to> > >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how > are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > > > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that > there are people who will avoid the > > blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I > think it can affect fro > > your end too, in the can you> walk> > the > walk you talk totally? Like that > > little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> > > level and independence is not > > truly equal that can effect. But on the> other> > > hand kids know Jordan is > > equal to them in school, I think sometimes they> > > don't realize he is > > equally independent out of school too. On the> > other> > hand, he is often > > too busy to have any free time to go out, and these > days> I> > know a lot of > > students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are > high> > GPA, working > > jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't> have> > time much > > either. So I think they aren't calling like he > isn't,> just too> > busy!> >> > >>> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > > National Organization of Parents of > > Blind Children> > A Division of the National > Federation of the Blind> > NFB > > National Center: > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l > > mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, > > change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l:> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.com > > I can sympathize with all you people who don't > have any friends. I don't > > have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, > like Karry's son, I'm so > > busy with school that I really don't do much else > right now. Still, it's > > kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid > talk about what they > > did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday > afternoon together after school. > > Then there's the problem that I go to a small > school where anyone who didn't > > grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits > in. It gets really > > lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. > I've had several people > > tell me that it gets better in college, because you > meet more people who > > think like you do. Any thoughts on that? > > Heather > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > > ronto.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/passionflower505%40yahoo.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Tue Nov 4 14:24:45 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:24:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Organizations expressoutrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy References: <20A30DE319264A73A1AE7688EE9E4DAB@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <001d01c93e89$169c8d50$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Grin, I am glad we've had the discussions about voting. Now many will be watching, and hoping their candidate makes it. Then, when one of them does, we'll continue to work with their administration, and especially the congress. I am not sure the NFB has worked to change things by appealing, and connecting with the executive, but all well, maybe we aught to try it. Now Joe, it will be a pleasure to receive, or share with you a Long Island, so I'll be looking for you in Detroit. Sincerely, Antonio guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations expressoutrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy > Antonio, > > Wiktionary.org defines "plight" as the following: > > *Predicament: a situation from which extrication is difficult especially > an > unpleasant or trying one; "finds himself in a most awkward predicament"; > "the woeful plight of homeless people"* > > I believe the reference to homeless people highlights the popular > connotation of the word, the same popular connotation you are exercising > in > attempting to make your point. In my post I said the word, and therefore > its connotation, are reserved for people unable to overcome adversity. I > did not claim to be offering a literal definition. If we look at the > definition above, I would argue that Jewish people once experienced a > so-called plight. I would argue that Native-Americans once experienced a > plight. African-American slaves, refugees from war-torn African > countries...Those people are victims of the type of plight you are > attempting to associate with the blind. Blind people have not been > socially > degraded. The odds for the blind are high, but at no point have they been > stacked up so high that no amount of education could ever hope to change > the > public's perception that the blind are equal human beings. If we were > holding this discussion in the midst of a third world country, I would > grant > you the perception, but we live in a country that has opened doors for the > blind and other people with disabilities despite all its legal and > legislative shortcomings. Unlike the aforementioned groups, the blind are > not inhibited by a social barrier so immense as to appear immovable. > > You've already offered this document outlining the comparison of Obama to > McCain before. I believe it heavily favors Obama despite its claims to be > neutral, but the writer earned my respect for taking the time to build a > case on more than ideological affiliation. The author is voting as an > informed individual who can support his choice with more than emotional > claims about which candidate best fits his perception of what a candidate > ought to be doing, and I guess when it comes down to it, I wish you could > have built a similar case to convince us that the issue of disabilities is > crucial enough to singularly consider in tomorrow's election and that > Obama > is the only logical solution to the alleged problems you see with the > disability community. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. > Build your own solid platform in support of your candidate so that > naysayers > like myself cannot overwhelm you with spreading arguments. > > Now, I'm not up for writing another novel. Unless you post something > completely off the wall, I think I've bored you long enough. Steve pretty > much summed up the discussion far more elegantly than I could have > managed. > If Obama wins, and statistically it is difficult to predict to the > contrary, > I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever you desire when I next see you. If the > Mac really does come back, you can spot me a Long Island or two. Despite > our difference of opinions, I'm glad we had the discussion. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James > M. > Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express > outrageoverrepublicandisabilitypolicy > > About plight, my dictionary defines it as > > "condition, state; especially a bad state.: > > No language in my dictionary, the version used in the Franklyn Master > Special edition suggests that plight is reserved for those who can not > overcome adversity. > > Turning to the dictionary in the Kurzweil software, plight is defined as > > "a cituation, especially a bad or unfortunate one." > > "To give a pledge, one's word of oath for example." > > "To endanger, put at risk." > > Again, nothing here directly indicating a lack of reziliency, or inability > to overcome adversity. > > I have provided two pieces that point out why I favor the Obama camp. I > have > heard McCain refer to the disabled as people with special needs, as > pointed > out in the recent press release. I do not feel the need to research and > present evidence for my every statement, but I know what I hear, and I > know > what I read. And, from what I hear, and from what I read, I have been able > to make a conscious decision on who is best suited to lead America. My > mind > will likely not change, and neither is Joe Orosco's, or Mika Pikala. We > have > been politically defined in the same way for years, but I hope we are > always > able to carry on with maturity, and forceful arguments. > > I know who I support for president, and I know why I put my weight behind > him. It is up to each individual to to the same for themselves. If anyone > can show my original posts to be wrong, rather than to point out that it > favors one candidate over another, I would reconsider my statements, and > political leanings. Again, if McCain has such good record introducing laws > on behalf of the NFB, why isn't such general favor for disability issues > reflected in this document below? > > Does the Obama support for disability policy present itself so promenently > here because the writer is left-leaning, or because Obama's policies are > well-articulated, and generally more benneficial to people with > disabilities, and the blind? > > Are there straight out lies about McCain, misstatements of his positions > and > voting record, and inflated statements about Obama? If so, what are they? > Is > this all a matter of perception, or can we trust in imperic data, and > one's > voting record? > > Sincerely > > Antonio Guimaraes > > ---------------------------------- > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 > This information is set forth in an effort to provide the reader with > information about the Presidential candidates' positions concerning people > with disabilities. It is not intended as an endorsement of either > candidate, > and is posted in my private capacity. > Watch what they do (and did), not just what they say. > > Vote for the candidate of your choice, but vote. > Please feel free to share this email and add it to your blogs. > > Marc > > As we near November 4th, it is increasingly important that voters > concerned > about people with disabilities are well-informed about the candidates' > positions. Each Presidential candidate has put forth positions on issues > on > their respective websites: > > McCain/Palen: > www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues es> > > Obama/Biden: www.barackobama.com/issues > > > Please take a look at each of the websites to learn where the candidates > really stand. > A review of their respective records in the Senate is also revealing: > OBAMA ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES > > Barack Obama supports full funding of the Individuals with Disabilities > Education Act (IDEA), early intervention and developmental programs, and > expanded college opportunities for students with disabilities. > > Obama voted for over $44 billion in funding for the IDEA. [SCR 1, Senate > Vote #94, 3/22/07] > > Obama will invest $10 billion per year in early intervention, educational > and developmental programs for children between zero and five. His plan > will help expand programs such as Early Head Start to serve more children > with disabilities. His plan also will encourage states to expand programs > for children with disabilities, such as IDEA Part C. [Obama Plan to > Empower > Americans with Disabilities > ] > > Obama supports increasing opportunities for college students with > disabilities. He also will provide more support for these college > students. > > Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Senate bill to reauthorize the > Higher Education Act (S. 1642) which significantly expands opportunities > and > supports for individuals with disabilities to attend college and graduate > programs. [S.1642, 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON EDUCATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES > > John McCain has repeatedly voted against the IDEA even though he claims he > supports full funding of it. > > McCain has repeatedly voted against funding for special education. > >> McCain repeatedly voted against funding increases for the IDEA. >> [H.R.4577, Senate Vote #170, 6/30/00; SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, >> 3/26/03] > >> McCain has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy over education funding for >> students with disabilities. Specifically, McCain voted against >> increasing spending in the amount of $229 billion over 10 years for >> the IDEA. McCain also voted against an amendment that would create a >> reserve fund of $73 billion in IDEA funding. The spending would have >> been made possible by reducing tax cuts. [SCR 23, Senate Vote #103, >> 3/26/03; SCR 23, Senate Vote #70, 3/21/03] > > McCain did not co-sponsor reauthorization of the Higher Education Act (S. > 1642). He also did not vote on passage of the reauthorization of the > Higher > Education Act in the 110th Congress. [S.1642, 110th Congress; S. 1642, > Senate Vote #275, 7/24/07] > > OBAMA ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY > > Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Choice Act of 2007. Obama believes > that individuals should be able to make their own choices for their living > arrangements and live independently in their communities. [S.799, 110th > Congress] > > Obama is a co-sponsor of the Community Living Assistance Services and > Support (CLASS) Act Of 2007. This bill would help individuals with > functional impairments pay for services that they need to maximize their > independence. [S.1758, 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON SUPPORT FOR LIVING INDEPENDENTLY IN THE COMMUNITY > > McCain strongly opposes the Community Choice Act. Asked about the > Community > Choice Act at a Town Hall in Denver, McCain said "The Community Choice Act > is not a piece of legislation that I support." [McCain Town Hall > 1672_5.html> > , 7/7/08] > > OBAMA ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING > > Obama opposes a freeze on social services spending for people with > disabilities. > > Obama voted against capping non-defense spending which means that social > service spending for people with disabilities could continue to meet their > needs. In 2005, Obama voted against the Inhofe amendment that would cap > non-defense, non-trust fund spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] > > MCCAIN ON SOCIAL SERVICES SPENDING > > McCain promises that he will cap non-defense spending for at least one > year, > meaning that social services spending for people with disabilities will be > capped as well. > > McCain voted in favor of capping non-defense spending. In 2005, McCain > voted > for the Inhofe amendment that would cap non-defense and non-trust fund > spending. [S.1932, Senate Vote #286, 11/3/05] > > McCain proposed a freeze of discretionary spending as illustrated when he > said, "As president, I will also order a prompt and thorough review of the > budgets of every federal program, department, and agency. While that > top-to-bottom review is underway, we will institute a one-year pause in > discretionary spending increases with the necessary exemption of military > spending and veterans' benefits." [McCain Remarks on the Economy at > Carnegie > Mellon University, 4/15/08 > cdd41a1b812.htm> > ] > > OBAMA ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > Obama will sign universal health care into law by the end of his first > term > in office, and he has supported expanding the State Children's Health > Insurance Program ("SCHIP") and health care programs for people with > disabilities, children, and veterans. > > > > Under Obama's plan to provide universal health insurance, insurance > companies will not be able to stop individuals from getting coverage even > if > they have pre-existing conditions and disabilities. Obama's plan allows > individuals and businesses to purchase public or private health coverage > through a national health insurance exchange. Obama's plan would make > health care more affordable and accessible to all Americans, particularly > individuals who have been denied coverage in the private market due to a > pre-existing condition or disability. [Obama Plan to Empower Individuals > with Disabilities > ] > > Obama is a co-sponsor of ending the Medicare Waiting Period Act of 2007 > (S.2102). Before they can get Medicare coverage, people with disabilities > must first receive Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) for 24 > months. Due to the 24-month Medicare waiting period, an estimated 400,000 > Americans with disabilities are uninsured and many more are underinsured > at > a time in their lives when they need health coverage the most. During > this > waiting period, many individuals develop secondary conditions, their > health > status worsens and many die. Obama supports legislation that would phase > out this harmful waiting period and provide individuals with health > insurance. [S.2102, 110th Congress] > > Obama supported expanded health insurance for children. In 2007, Obama > voted to reauthorize the SCHIP at over $60 billion for five years. Two > children who live with a single parent who makes $51,510 would have access > to health insurance coverage under SCHIP. The bill would provide $100 > million in new grants to fund state outreach and enrollment efforts and > allocate $49 million for a demonstration project to streamline the > enrollment process for low-income children already eligible for coverage. > [HR 976, Senate Vote #307, 8/2/07] > > Obama supported assuring accessible health care to people with > disabilities > by co-sponsoring the Promoting Wellness for Individuals with Disabilities > Act (S.1050) The bill would require the U.S. Access Board to establish > access standards for all diagnostic equipment (examination tables, x-ray, > mammography and other radiological equipment, etc.). It also educates > physicians and dentists by requiring that medical schools, dental schools, > and their residency programs provide training to improve competency and > clinical skills in providing care to patients with disabilities (including > those with intellectual disabilities) as a condition of receiving federal > funds. Finally, it establishes a national wellness grant program which > will > authorize funding for programs or activities for smoking cessation, weight > control, nutrition or fitness that are tailored to the needs of > individuals > with disabilities and authorize funding for preventive health screening > programs for individuals wi! > th disabilities to reduce the incidence of secondary conditions. [S.1050, > 110th Congress] > > MCCAIN ON HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > McCain's health care plan does not prohibit discrimination against > individuals with pre-existing conditions and disabilities. McCain's > healthcare plan would replace the existing tax exclusion for > employer-sponsored health coverage with a refundable tax credit for all > Americans as an incentive to purchase health insurance. However, many > individuals with disabilities are denied coverage or unable to afford > coverage in the private market due to pre-existing conditions and > disabilities. While McCain's plan would work with states to develop best > practice models in expanding coverage to individuals who have been denied > coverage, it would not prohibit discrimination. [Washington Post, 4/30/08 > 2706.html> > ] > > McCain opposed reauthorizing SCHIP and providing insurance for millions of > uninsured children. According to Knight Ridder, "The [2007] Senate > proposal > would provide coverage to 3.2 million" uninsured children and renew > coverage > for the 6 million children already covered by the program. The > legislation > passed 68-31. [H.R. 976, Vote #307 > m?congress=110&session=1&vote=00307> > , 8/2/07; Knight Ridder, 8/2/07] > > VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES: > Obama: > The Disabled America Veterans (DAV) gave Obama an 80% rating in 2006. > [Project Vote Smart] > Obama supported expanding health care for veterans. > >> In 2005, Obama voted for providing an additional $500 million per >> year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. >> [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > >> In 2006, Obama voted in favor of adding $430 million for outpatient >> and inpatient health care and treatment for veterans. Nearly half of >> the military servicemen and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will >> require health care services for the physical and psychological >> traumas of war, yet the Bush administration and Republican-led >> Congress have underfunded the Veterans Administration's medical >> services by at least $1.2 billion for 2007 alone. And, this was the >> second consecutive year they had done so. [H.R.4939, Senate Vote #98, >> 4/26/06; The Independent Budget, A Budget for Veterans by Veterans, >> 2/10/06; Newsweek, 1/19/06] > > Obama voted for $2 million for research of traumatic brain injuries to > improve imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current > technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. Amdt. > 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > > McCain: > > McCain opposed expanding health care for veterans. > >> In 2005, McCain voted against providing an additional $500 million >> per year for the next five years for mental health services for veterans. >> [S.2020, Senate Vote #343, 11/17/05] > >> In 2006, McCain was one of 13 senators who voted against adding $430 >> million for outpatient and inpatient health care and treatment for >> veterans. Amendment passed 84-16. [H.R.4939, Vote #98 >> > cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00098> >> , 4/26/06] > > >> McCain voted against $2 million of funding for research of traumatic >> brain injuries. McCain rejected legislation that would help improve >> imaging for traumatic brain injury testing and adapting current >> technologies to treat brain injuries suffered in war. [H.R.5631, S. >> Amdt. >> 4781, Senate Vote #222, 8/2/06; CQ, 8/2/06] > > > >> McCain voted with the Disabled American Veterans 20% of the time. >> Factcheck.org "However, he is correct in that McCain doesn't have a >> perfect score with DAV (Disabled American Veterans), a group of 1.3 >> million disabled veterans that supports more funding for veterans health >> care. McCain has a 20 percent record of voting the way DAV would like him >> to in 2006...Senators were evaluated on five votes for amendments that >> would have increased funding for veterans' health care." [Factcheck.org >> > ord.html> >> ] > > > OBAMA ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > Obama strongly supports the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) > Restoration Act. Indeed, he signed on as an original co-sponsor of the > Senate version of the ADA Restoration Act. [S.1050, 110th Congress] > > > > Obama will appoint judges who exhibit empathy for individuals with > disabilities. "Barack Obama will appoint judges and justices who respect > Congress' role as a co-equal, democratically elected branch of government > and who exhibit empathy with what it means to be an American with a > disability" [Obama Plan To Empower Individuals With Disabilities > ] > > MCCAIN ON CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES > > While McCain has also co-sponsored the ADA Restoration Act, he has > promised > to appoint judges like those who interpreted the ADA narrowly and deprived > millions of people with disabilities of their civil rights. McCain said > that as president, he would "appoint strict constructionist judges." [AP, > 8/7/07] "In an address at Wake Forest University, McCain pledged to > nominate jurists who believe 'there are clear limits to the scope of > judicial power'...By way of example, McCain said he would look for people > in > > the cast of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito > Jr., and his friend the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist. He called > them 'jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know > the > law, and know the difference.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/7/08 > 3233304.story> > ] > > > OBAMA ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY > > In 2007, Obama voted against increasing Medicare Part D premiums for > beneficiaries making over $80,000 annually. Obama voted against the > Ensign > > Amendment that would require Medicare prescription drugs beneficiaries > with > annual incomes over $80,000 and couples with annual incomes over $160,000 > to > > pay a larger share of their Medicare Part D premium.[SCR 21, Senate Vote > #93, 3/22/07] > > Obama opposed means testing for Medicare. In response to a NCPSSM > questionnaire, Obama said, "The bill added 'means testing' to Part B of > Medicare, requiring individuals with incomes over $80,000 to pay gradually > higher premiums. This undermines the basic premise of Medicare as an > insurance program for all Americans and could cause wealthier and > healthier > people to leave the Medicare program." [NCPSSM Questionnaire; Citizen > Action Illinois Questionnaire, SEIU Questionnaire] > > MCCAIN ON MEDICARE ELIGIBILITY > > McCain voted to raise the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67. In 1997, > McCain voted in favor of raising the eligibility age for receiving > Medicare > from 65 to 67 with the change being phased in between 2003 and 2027. The > motion passed 62-38. [S 947, Vote #112 > m?congress=105&session=1&vote=00112> > , 6/24/97] > > OBAMA ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY Obama is a long-time supporter of mental > health parity legislation, having passed the Illinois Mental Health Parity > Law. He also co-sponsored the Mental Health Parity Act of 2007. Obama > co-sponsored a bill to amend the Employee Retirement Income Security Act > (ERISA) and the Public Health Service Act to require a group health plan > that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health > benefits > to ensure that: (1) the financial requirements applicable to such mental > health benefits are no more restrictive than those of substantially all > medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including deductibles > and > > copayments; and (2) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental > health benefits are no more restrictive than those applied to > substantially > all medical and surgical benefits covered by the plan, including limits on > the frequency of treatments or similar limits on the scope or duration of > treatment. The bill prohibi! > ted the plan from establishing separate cost sharing requirements that are > applicable only with respect to mental health benefits. [110th, S.558, > Introduced 2/12/07; HELP Report, 4/11/07] Obama co-sponsored and voted for > a > > mental health parity bill that requires coverage for serious mental > illnesses to be provided on the same terms and conditions as other > illnesses > > and diseases. [92nd GA; SB 1341; 2001; Signed into law 7/27/01, PA > 92-0185] > MCCAIN ON MENTAL HEALTH PARITY McCain's health care plan would eliminate > the mental health parity requirements in 45 states. [Wall Street Journal, > 10/11/07; SOURCE: National Conference of State Legislatures > (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/hmolaws.htm > ), accessed 7/30/07; > Council for Affordable Health Insurance, accessed 7/30/07 > (http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/MandatePub2007.pdf > )] > OBAMA ON AUTISM Obama will increase federal funding for outreach and > support > > services for people on the autism spectrum. Specifically, "Obama will > seek > to increase federal ASD funding for research, treatment, screenings, > public > awareness, and support services to $1 billion annually by the end of his > first term in office. Obama will also continue to work with parents, > physicians, providers, researchers, and schools to create opportunities > and > effective solu! > tions for people with ASD." [Obama Plan Supporting Americans with Autism > Spectrum Disorders > ] Obama is > a > > co-sponsor of the Expanding the Promise to Individuals with Autism Act > (S.937) which would improve services and supports for individuals with > autism spectrum disorder and their families. It would build upon programs > within the Developmental Disabilities Act to increase interdisciplinary > training of professionals, development and dissemination of evidence-based > autism treatments, interventions, supports and services for children and > adults, and protection and advocacy. [S.937, 110th Congress] MCCAIN ON > AUTISM McCain has not taken a leading role to expand services and supports > for people with autism. McCain has not co-sponsored the Expanding the > Promise to Individuals with Autism Act (S.937). [S.937, 110th Congress] > McCain says he will work to advance federal autism research. "As > President, > > John McCain will ! > work to advance federal research into autism, promote early screening, and > identify better treatment options, while providing support for children > with > > autism so that they may reach their full potential." [McCain Statement on > Combating Autism in America > 1> > ] OBAMA ON VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES Obama supports > fully funding the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) so that we can ensure all > polling places are accessible. His administration would also assure > better > > enforcement of federal disability rights laws - from HAVA to the Voting > Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act to the ADA - to make > sure > the right of Americans with disabilities to vote is fully protected. > [Obama > Plan to Empower Individuals with Disabilities > ] MCCAIN ON > VOTING RIGHTS FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES In 2002, McCain voted > repeatedly against the ! > Help America Vote Act, which was offered to correct problems in the > election > > system and impose detailed voting-procedure requirements on the states. > McCain voted for final passage of the bill. [S.565, Senate] > Marc Dubin, Esq. > Florida Coordinator > Obama For President National Disability Policy Committee > > www.barackobama.com/issues > http://www.barackobama.com/issues/disabilities > Register to Vote at http://www.voteforchange.com > > To view John McCain's policy positions, visit > http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/ > > 305-896-3000 Direct > Fax: 877-731-3030 > mdubin at pobox.com > > Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee > www.disabilitylawcommittee.com > Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights > Division, Disability Rights Section, Washington, D.C. 1992-2005 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:12 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage > overrepublicandisabilitypolicy > > >> Antonio, >> >> Laws change policies, not attitudes. Further, the government cannot >> realistically create jobs, unless you suggest the government only hire >> people with disabilities to reduce the overall unemployment of that >> sector >> of the population. What is troubling about your continuing rhetoric is >> that >> it would appear you are counting on an Obama administration to >> miraculously >> make things better. It will not. To be fair, it cannot. Vote for Obama >> if >> you must, but vote with the understanding that all the success you >> pretend >> will be achieved by your candidate are actually successes you and I will >> have to work to make important items. And no, it is not a plight. >> Plight >> is reserved for those who absolutely cannot overcome adversity. The >> generation of leaders that built the NFB we see today overcame their >> obstacles with far less accessories we have today, so spare us all the >> unnecessary gloomy language. It may be part of some people's skeptical >> reality, but it does not have to be part of ours. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> P.S. Let's see some examples of all the instances the McCain campaign has >> hinted at negativity for the disabled community portrayed by the article >> you >> forwarded. Claiming McCain and Palin have said this or that does not >> make >> evidence, only hearsay. >> >> "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James >> M. >> Barrie >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Antonio Guimaraes >> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage >> overrepublicandisability >> policy >> >> Hello Beth, and all, >> >> I don't think McCane and Palen are against people with disabilities, as >> you >> point out in your post. They are aganst some things, as are you and me, >> but >> they are surely not aganst the disabled. >> >> I do feel the Obama camp gets it more about the 54 million of us with a >> disability, and would help our plight, yes, I said plight, more than the >> concervatives. >> >> Now, about plight, if you thing 70 percent unemployment rate does not >> qualify as plight, I don't know what does. >> >> So, rather than point out 70 percent of us are unemployed, lets hit the >> books, and other places to change this number. >> >> Plitefully yours, >> >> Antonio >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Organizations express outrage over >> republicandisability policy >> >> >>> Geez, why execute criminals with developmental disabilities? Why? >>> And please, somebody tell me why McCain and Palin are acting the way >>> they do. It's bad enough that Palin is against the LGBT community, >>> but against people with disabilities? I knew this was going to >>> happen. I don't know if I'm psychic, but I just know it's going to >>> happen. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 10/31/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just received this press release, and am providing it for your >>>> information, as you look to be informed to vote in the 2008 election. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ADAWatch.org >>>> National Coalition for Disability Rights >>>> 1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 300 >>>> Washington, DC 20006 >>>> 202-448-9928 - info at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> NEWS RELEASE >>>> >>>> October 31, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability Rights Organizations Express Outrage Over Attacks at >>>> McCain-Palin >>>> Rally >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Contacts: >>>> >>>> Jim Ward, Founder and President >>>> >>>> 202-415-4753 or jward at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marcie Roth, Executive Director >>>> >>>> 301-717-7447 or mroth at ncdr.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> (Washington, DC) The National Coalition for Disability Rights (NCDR) >>>> pushed >>>> back today against the McCain-Palin campaign for ridiculing the legal >>>> rights >>>> of people with disabilities. News reports describe McCain-Palin >>>> campaign >>>> representative Senator Kit Bond (R-Mo), joining Vice Presidential >>>> candidate >>>> Sarah Palin at a rally in Rush Limbaugh's hometown of Cape Girardeau, >>>> Missouri, mocking Presidential candidate Senator Barak Obama for >>>> stating >>>> that he's looking to nominate judges who empathize with "the disabled." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "It's Halloween and it seems that Sarah Palin's mask of support for >>>> people >>>> with "special needs" is slipping. Despite past pandering to people with >>>> disabilities, McCain-Palin are actually opposed to vital disability >>>> legislation like the Community Choice Act and they want to appoint >>>> judges >>>> who will further roll back the civil rights protections of the >>>> Americans >>>> with Disabilities Act," declared NCDR's founder and president, Jim >>>> Ward. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported that McCain-Palin's and >>>> conservatives' >>>> "most oft-mentioned prospects" for nomination to the Supreme Court >>>> include >>>> Ohio Judge Jeffrey Sutton. Sutton was opposed by hundreds of disability >>>> organizations when he was nominated by President Bush after >>>> successfully >>>> weakening the ADA with states' rights arguments. As a sitting judge, he >>>> has >>>> recently supported the execution of criminals with developmental >>>> disabilities and has undermined the Help America Vote Act(HAVA). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability rights advocates are further incensed that the McCain-Palin >>>> campaign has reframed this civil rights struggle, one founded in >>>> concepts >> >>>> of >>>> equality, dignity and self-respect, as an issue of "special needs." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disability rights advocate, Steve Gold states, "Yes we need support >>>> services. Yes we need inclusive education. Yes we need integrated >>>> employment. Yes we need equal rights. This not "special". These needs >>>> are >>>> based on us, people with disabilities, equal members of our >>>> communities. >>>> We >>>> are not inspirational nor are we "special". We are PROUD PEOPLE WITH >>>> DISABILITIES who should push back when anyone describes us as anything >>>> but >>>> equal members of our communities." >>>> >>>> >>>> The National Coalition for Disability Rights is a nonpartisan nonprofit >>>> that >>>> does not endorse political candidates. We are a coalition of national, >>>> state and local disability, civil rights and social justice >>>> organizations >>>> united to protect and promote the human rights of children and adults >>>> with >>>> physical and mental disabilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>> 11/2/2008 >>> 9:51 AM >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From RCarranza at nfb.org Tue Nov 4 15:17:28 2008 From: RCarranza at nfb.org (Carranza, Rosy) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:17:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Message-ID: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Hi Everybody, Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 16:38:08 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at a buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird if you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You should step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a sight seer alone from London touring Boston. So people do do big things alone. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with > friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to > concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is > fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't > know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand > and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; > and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an > appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends > because I don't want to look weird or anything. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >> Hi Harry >> >> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >> people >> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the >> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! >> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >> person >> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >> ask >> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in >> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to >> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in >> a >> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like >> one >> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >> lol--and >> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish >> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is >> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these >> feelings. >> >> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, >> not >> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else >> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >> sports >> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >> that >> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >> say--but >> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is >> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way >> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person >> to >> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted >> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I >> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >> >> Harry >> >> >> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >> >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >> >> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >> wouldn't give up. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>> >>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and >> this >>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >> found >>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to >> go >>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >> people >>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>> sighted >>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>> because >> I >>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >> that >>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >> listen to >>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >> lunch on >>> Thursday and catch up? >>> >>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>> though >>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you >> walk >>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >> skill >>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >> other >>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >> other >>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>> days >> I >>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>> high >>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >> have >>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >> just too >>> busy! >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 16:56:51 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:56:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: <558928.33658.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49107edd.02c3f10a.3075.fffff561@mx.google.com> Cindy-I think your points are extremely important. There is the difference between interdependent and dependent. We are all interdependent and carrying your weight and sharing is not a burden, taking without giving back or expecting only help or some special privilege above and beyond is not equality and strains friendship and is burdensome pretty quickly. Friends are able to view each other as equals, once feeling sorry for another slips into it, a feeling of superiority slips in to it no matter how subtle, and you no longer have true friendship in my opinion. Thanks Cindy- Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends I understand where you guys are coming from in that you dont want to be a burden, but what i have found is that most of the time, people dont mind, but i always offer to do something in return, i always give gas money, and if someone helps me with shopping or something then i might buy their lunch. a lot of times my friends say that they dont need that, but i still think that its important to do, because you dont want to use them. the relationship has to give both ways. Ss for doing things by yourself, i think its important to first try to do something by yourself rather than to initially rely on friends, because even though they probably care about you, your needs shouldn't become their number one concern. That beign said, there are definitely situations in which i am a lot more successful when someone is around, but i dont think that the presence of someone else should detour you from trying something. those are just my opinions. Cindy --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 1:29 AM > Hi all, > > This is such an interesting topic and it is great to see > such a lively > discussion! > > I can definitely relate to the difficulties that many of > you describe > with friendship and dating in the sighted world. In my > experience the > problem goes both ways-some sighted people may keep us at > arm's > length, but at least as much awkwardness can come from our > own fears > of rejection or of trusting sighted acquaintances and > opening up to > them. I often remind myself that I probably think about my > blindness > in a social interaction much more than my sighted partner > actually > does. As for dating, while I agree that tensions between > blind and > sighted can compound the tensions that can exist between > the sexes > already, we also have to remember that thousands of blind > people (in > the NFB and out) have found happy long-term romantic > relationships, > both with blind and sighted partners. So although > blindness can > present challenges, it by no means sets us up for > loneliness. Many of > the most prominent figures in the NFB are happily married, > and I > figure that if they can do it, so can I. > > And speaking of other blind people, I can't overstate > the value and > joy that can come with building friendships with others who > are > blind-for people of all ages. I think becoming friends > with other > blind people where the normal tensions and awkwardness > between blind > and sighted are absent is a great way to develop > self-confidence and > practice other social skills, like listening, building > trust, managing > conflicts and becoming a leader. Of course, this > doesn't mean that we > should segregate from the sighted world and only associate > with other > blind people-we can and should build connections with all > kinds of > people around us and not restrict ourselves to just the > blind or just > the sighted. But getting to know other blind people can be > a great > support against the challenges of being regarded as > second-class > citizens, and together we can work to share strategies for > solving > blindness-related problems, as the NFB has clearly > demonstrated. > > In Phoenix where I grew up, we had a local nonprofit > organization > that sponsored weekend programs and summer day camps for > blind kids. > These programs were nothing like the NFB training centers > in terms of > philosophy, but through my participation I was lucky enough > to meet > other blind kids around my age who were, and still are, > some of my > closest friends. I first started meeting these kids at the > end of > elementary school. Though I have been blind all my life and > never > thought blindness was really a big deal, it was around that > time when > I really started to understand that "blindness > mattered" to other > sighted kids and adults. In the sighted world around me (at > school, > Hebrew school or with my family) I was generally quiet and > well-behaved and focused on my schoolwork. But when I got > with my > blind peers, I would get talkative, joke around, flirt with > boys, and > even help mastermind some good-natured pranks on the other > kids and > teachers. I still remember running around on the playground > at the day > camp and feeling totally free-not being told that I had > to sit out the > action because I was blind, not being tethered to some > kid's elbow > when I wanted to go somewhere, and being teased in a fun > way by the > other kids instead of just being treated politely or > ignored. Since > the blind kids around me treated me like their equal, I was > free to be > myself, reveal my insecurities, take social risks and > eventually > assert myself as a leader in the group. I still feel the > same sense of > freedom today when I meet new "partners in crime" > in the NFB (although > my prankster days are, mostly, behind me!) Today most of my > close > friends happen to be blind-and yet, despite my > introverted tendencies > and worries about not fitting in with the sighted, I have > been able to > take some big social risks. I spent five months in a > foreign country > where I knew nobody, sighted or blind, for example. I > seriously doubt > that I would have had the confidence or the social skill to > do that or > to become active in groups on campus if I had not had those > early deep > connections with blind peers and the ones I have today in > the NFB. > > As ambitious blind students who strive for the best, we can > sit and > criticize the indecent behavior going on at our chapter > meetings. We > can be part of the solution by giving our blind friends > feedback about > their social behavior. Or we can go further-by reaching > out to the > blind community around us and seeking out mentors, friends > and > mentees. Each of us has a lot to learn from others around > us who are > blind, and a lot to teach them as well. That is the beauty > of our > organization, and I hope we can all make the most of it. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar > wrote: > > Yeah for sure. I still struggle with athletics. > It's a tough one - I'll > > think on it and see what I come up with. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > > Of Heather Rasmussen > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:10 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From: > harryhogue at yahoo.com> To: > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > freinds> > Great topic, guys. I > > have never had really close friends, either. Een in > college, I neer > > developed close relationships--more like people I talk > to during class, etc. > > Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in > a group and jsut > > naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people > (like one or two ther > > people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a > nerd lol--and really like > > it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the > Spanish table once a > > weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. > It is good to know > > that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from > these feelings.> > I > > would loe to get out there and be able to play > soccer--the real thing, not > > some weird modified ersion with sighted people > helping. Does anyone else > > feel this way? If this is better addressed either off > list or on the sports > > and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of > extracurricular activities > > that I would like to participate in but can't. > Soemthign we don't really > > say--but when we say that people can participate > equally--I don't know that > > it is entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted > I've never done it the > > way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of > a totally blind person > > to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out > sighted help that > > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and > the other adapted > > sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I > don't know much about, but I > > think it does fit in well with our discussion of > social integration and > > making friends, etc. Thoughts?> > Harry> > > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth > > wrote:> > > From: Beth > > > Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National > > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: > > Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are > right, Carey. The people in > > question could be too busy.> However, may I point > out that my younger > > brother, eighteen years old,> already has a > girlfriend and runs around > > everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted > person who has a > > significant other, and you> know why he has her? > Because he can immitate > > appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in > having good social > > skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the > oppoite sex. The key to > > winning a> successful date and keeping that > significant other is having > > good> social skills. I have a young man in college > here at FSU who is a> > > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people > I've dealt with,> the > > nature of blindness and its accessories because his > mom had a> blind > > student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this > issue and it> just makes > > sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a > friend. I> admit I did a > > few things he didn't like, but then he admitted > he> wouldn't give up.> Beth> > >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer > wrote:> > I would just > > like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan > has not had many social offers > > himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is > key-respected- in class and in > > the extra curricular groups. I have> found> > > that blind people maybe > > especially need to be very pro-active on this. I> > > told him once that to > > eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to> > go> > out, he needed to > > call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,> > people> > were not going > > to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a > sighted> > person, I can > > tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are > because> I> > my self > > kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I > invited them> > over, I > > remembered the birthday card. I have friends from > grade school> > still, but > > most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often> that> > way, > > some people are better at it. I never care or make > anyone feel it> > > > mattered if they haven't called me for three > years, I don't even> listen to> > >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how > are you now, wanna do> lunch on> > > > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that > there are people who will avoid the > > blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I > think it can affect fro > > your end too, in the can you> walk> > the > walk you talk totally? Like that > > little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> > > level and independence is not > > truly equal that can effect. But on the> other> > > hand kids know Jordan is > > equal to them in school, I think sometimes they> > > don't realize he is > > equally independent out of school too. On the> > other> > hand, he is often > > too busy to have any free time to go out, and these > days> I> > know a lot of > > students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are > high> > GPA, working > > jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't> have> > time much > > either. So I think they aren't calling like he > isn't,> just too> > busy!> >> > >>> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President> > > National Organization of Parents of > > Blind Children> > A Division of the National > Federation of the Blind> > NFB > > National Center: > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l > > mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, > > change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l:> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.com > > I can sympathize with all you people who don't > have any friends. I don't > > have any either. It's kind of my fault, because, > like Karry's son, I'm so > > busy with school that I really don't do much else > right now. Still, it's > > kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid > talk about what they > > did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday > afternoon together after school. > > Then there's the problem that I go to a small > school where anyone who didn't > > grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits > in. It gets really > > lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. > I've had several people > > tell me that it gets better in college, because you > meet more people who > > think like you do. Any thoughts on that? > > Heather > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > When your life is on the go-take your life with you. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > > ronto.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/passionflower505%40y ahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 18:21:14 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:21:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [acb-l] blind band will be rose parade's first In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041021h687fdc03j26068dae8465dff0@mail.gmail.com> Cool! I was in a marching band but didn't have to march. Titusville High's Terrier Sound marching band is still by far the best band in te land. But hey, cheers to this Ohio band. They deserve it. Beth On 10/21/08, Dave Wright wrote: > This is kind of interesting... > > [acb-l] blind band will be rose parade's first > > > Blind band will be Rose Parade's first > Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:12 AM > By Jennifer Smith Richards > > THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH > > Members of the Ohio State School for the Blind marching band react to news > that their band has been invited to the 2010 Tournament of Roses Parade. The > entire student body was in the gym when the surprise announcement was heard. > > The band's trip to Pasadena, Calif., will cost about $1,500 per person. > Donations can be sent to the Ohio State School for the Blind > Parent-Teacher-Staff Organization, 5220 N. High St., Columbus 43214 > The entire student body had been herded into the gym to sing The > Star-Spangled Banner, which was video- recorded for a school project. > > That was pretty cool, in itself -- several of the roughly 120 students at > the Ohio State School for the Blind have perfect pitch, so it wasn't your > average school-choir rendition. > > What happened next was even cooler: Music director Carol Agler's cell phone > rang and the crowd went quiet. She held the microphone to the phone's > earpiece as a man, calling from California, invited the school's marching > band to join the 2010 Rose Parade. > > You'd have thought Paris Hilton or the Jonas Brothers had just walked in -- > that's how loud the screaming was. > > "Congratulations, and we look forward to seeing you all," said Gary Di- > Sano, the parade's president in 2010. > > The Rose Parade, which features flowers-only floats and takes place in > Pasadena, Calif., each New Year's Day, has never hosted a blind marching > band. In fact, Agler said she doesn't know of another one in the country. > > Right now, there are only 17 band members, plus about as many sighted > marching assistants who help them stay in formation. > > "I think this will generate more kids in the band," said Agler, who > co-directs the band with another teacher, Dan Kelley. They've got a year to > whip the band into shape and to raise money for the cross-country trip. > > Band members likely will practice marching on the school's campus and even > on one of the gym's treadmills. The parade route is about 6 miles and will > take about two hours to march, a grind the band isn't used to. > > "I'm nervous, but I'm excited, too. It's gonna be hard, but we're gonna get > through it," said Bria Goshay, a 15-year-old snare drummer from Columbus. > > The band was formed in 2005 and played its first full season with about 20 > members in 2006. Its uniforms are castoffs from another high school that got > new ones. > > During a regular season, the band plays for an audience a handful of times: > at deaf-school football games, at a Dublin high-school pregame show, at the > Ohio State University Skull Session in St. John Arena. The band recently > marched in a Circleville Pumpkin Show parade. > > Twenty-one bands from across the country have been booked for the Rose > Parade, said music committee chairwoman Stacy Houser. Two others, > Pickerington Central High School and Ohio University, are from Ohio. > > "A blind marching band is such an incredibly unique thing," she said. "We're > hoping it'll be an inspiration throughout the country." > > Bands are chosen using several criteria, including marching and musical > ability, uniqueness and overall talent. > > Macy McClain, who plays the flute and piccolo in the band, likened the honor > to being on American Idol. > > "Except you don't have to stand in line," she said. > > jsmithrichards at dispatch.com > > Multimedia > a.. A look back: View an audio slide show from 2006 about the Ohio State > School for the Blind band > > > Best Regards: > David Wright > > Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu > Mobile: 832-518-0707 > > http://www.knfbreader.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 4 19:08:28 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:08:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if you were alone. Albert > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Beth, > > I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at a > buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird if > you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to > concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to > be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and > concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You should > step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a > sight seer alone from London touring Boston. > So people do do big things alone. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>> Hi Harry >>> >>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>> people >>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the >>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including golf! >>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>> person >>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>> ask >>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in >>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk to >>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in >>> a >>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like >>> one >>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>> lol--and >>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the Spanish >>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It is >>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these >>> feelings. >>> >>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, >>> not >>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else >>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>> sports >>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>> that >>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>> say--but >>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is >>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the way >>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person >>> to >>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted >>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I >>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>> >>> From: Beth >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>> >>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>> wouldn't give up. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>> >>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and >>> this >>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>> found >>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I >>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to >>> go >>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>> people >>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>> sighted >>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>> because >>> I >>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them >>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>> that >>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>> listen to >>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>> lunch on >>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>> >>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>> though >>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you >>> walk >>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>> skill >>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>> other >>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they >>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>> other >>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>> days >>> I >>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>> high >>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>> have >>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>> just too >>>> busy! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> NFB National Center: >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 4 19:35:50 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:35:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon everyone, Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth can forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been used to host this blog instead. What a shame! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carranza, Rosy" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hi Everybody, Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 20:05:01 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:05:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> Hi all, I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic impact. So my questions. 1. What accomodations did you use? 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective with braille. 3. What should have been done that was not? Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, audio texts, and extended time on tests. Thanks Ashley From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 20:05:05 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:05:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 4 20:39:38 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:39:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <01ad01c93ebd$76fb94f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Serina and listers, That is until Facebook changes their interface possibly making it inaccessible to blind users. The same thing happened with MySpace a few months ago. I recall reading a thread about this on this list. And there won't be a thing we can do about it in the short run! Had the blog been hosted in-house on our own server we'd have greater control over changes to the interface, access, and security. It is now possible to install Wordpress and other blogging software on NFB Net allowing us to have the same control over this new outreach method, and would assure that all blind and deaf-blind teens can participate. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 20:59:21 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:59:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041259u45a1e175l89886c6037108684@mail.gmail.com> Good poin, Albert. Plus here at FSU, you've got the late-night drunkards who hang out at the football games drinking so much they don't get a word in edgewise. Beth On 11/4/08, Albert Yoo wrote: > > Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to a > concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if you > were alone. Albert > > >> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Beth, >> >> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at >> a >> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird if >> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You should >> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >> So people do do big things alone. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>> people >>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down the >>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>> golf! >>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>> person >>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>> ask >>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een in >>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>> to >>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in >>>> a >>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people (like >>>> one >>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>> lol--and >>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>> Spanish >>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>> is >>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from these >>>> feelings. >>>> >>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real thing, >>>> not >>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone else >>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>> sports >>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>> that >>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>> say--but >>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it is >>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>> way >>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind person >>>> to >>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other adapted >>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but I >>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Beth >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>> >>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>> wouldn't give up. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>> >>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and >>>> this >>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>> found >>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. >>>>> I >>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>> people >>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>> sighted >>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>> because >>>> I >>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>> them >>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>> that >>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>> listen to >>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>> lunch on >>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>> >>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>> though >>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you >>>> walk >>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>> skill >>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>> other >>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>> they >>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>> other >>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>> days >>>> I >>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>> high >>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>> have >>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>> just too >>>>> busy! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 20:57:43 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:57:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041257g730217b7n24f089c8111aeeb@mail.gmail.com> 1. What accomodations did you use? My vision teacher taught me Braille, and I used a lot of Braille handouts and Braille textbooks, especially in math classes. I was also given a lot of cane travel classes, and took one in high school my senior year. 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective with braille. Yes. The accommodations I used were very effective. However, after not having walked around my neighborhood for a long time, I lost it as far as my travel skills go. 3. What should have been done that was not? Social skills stuff should have been taught at an early age, and there should have been better handling of blindisms and some cognitively disabled kids were in my special class, which didn't bode well for me because they weren't at the same level. Also, I had psychological issues which badly impacted my social skills. Beth On 11/4/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. I > had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI was > good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. > As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. > > In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to > present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic impact. > So my questions. > 1. What accomodations did you use? > 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective > with braille. > > 3. What should have been done that was not? > > Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, > audio texts, and extended time on tests. > > Thanks > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 21:34:38 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> Message-ID: <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Hi all, > > I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. > I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI > was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. > As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. > > In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to > present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic > impact. So my questions. > 1. What accomodations did you use? > 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective > with braille. > > 3. What should have been done that was not? > > Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, > audio texts, and extended time on tests. > > Thanks > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From hope.paulos at maine.edu Tue Nov 4 21:47:29 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:47:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These were extremely effective. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. >Rania, >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> Hi all, >> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. >> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI >> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. >> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. >> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to >> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic >> impact. So my questions. >> 1. What accomodations did you use? >> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective >> with braille. >> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, >> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> Thanks >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma il04%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 22:37:56 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:37:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> Albert, I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy it. Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go to some and get something out of it. She said "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to > concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is > fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't > know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand > and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; > and going to parties and such." It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is what you want to do. No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. Some students go in groups; others go alone. Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and most are just acquaintances, not close friends. But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Yoo" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to > a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if > you were alone. Albert > > >> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Beth, >> >> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at >> a >> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >> if >> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >> should >> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >> So people do do big things alone. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>> people >>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>> the >>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>> golf! >>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>> person >>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>> ask >>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>> in >>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>> to >>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>> in >>>> a >>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>> (like >>>> one >>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>> lol--and >>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>> Spanish >>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>> is >>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>> these >>>> feelings. >>>> >>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>> thing, >>>> not >>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>> else >>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>> sports >>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>> that >>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>> say--but >>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>> is >>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>> way >>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>> person >>>> to >>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>> adapted >>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>> I >>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Beth >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>> >>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>> wouldn't give up. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>> >>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>> and >>>> this >>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>> found >>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. >>>>> I >>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>> people >>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>> sighted >>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>> because >>>> I >>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>> them >>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>> that >>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>> listen to >>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>> lunch on >>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>> >>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>> though >>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>> you >>>> walk >>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>> skill >>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>> other >>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>> they >>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>> other >>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>> days >>>> I >>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>> high >>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>> have >>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>> just too >>>>> busy! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 22:39:40 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:39:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> Serena, Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can independently sign up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess > that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. > Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my > deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >> can >> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >> been >> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >> Hi Everybody, >> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >> >> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >> >> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >> in your community. >> >> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >> that you will tell your friends about us! >> >> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >> >> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From vaxite at hotmail.com Tue Nov 4 23:09:01 2008 From: vaxite at hotmail.com (Heather Rasmussen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:09:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: I haven't had much trouble except in Forestry, AG, and a little in math. My Forestry/Ag teacher absolutely refused to cooperate, so I just made do the best I could. My vission teacher was helpful. My technical geometry teacher used to give me tests and stuff on a jump drive. When she did powerpoints in class or drew figures on the board, I had a partner who drew them for me on a Draftsman (special tactile drawing board) as the teacher did. Hope this is useful. Heather> From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled.> Rania,> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM> Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > > > Hi all,> >> > I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. > > I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI > > was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests.> > As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though.> >> > In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to > > present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic > > impact. So my questions.> > 1. What accomodations did you use?> > 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective > > with braille.> >> > 3. What should have been done that was not?> >> > Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, > > audio texts, and extended time on tests.> >> > Thanks> > Ashley> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/vaxite%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 23:12:21 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:12:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041512h5a8c6931xe66e1e49fb81cea9@mail.gmail.com> They got rid of most of the visual verification codes, and I don't know if they got rid of the text-in-the-boxes for actually signing up, though. Beth On 11/4/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bjsexton at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 23:33:45 2008 From: bjsexton at comcast.net (Bruce Sexton) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:33:45 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting Message-ID: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> Hello and Happy Elections, I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties or irregularities. You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as I did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of this voting phenomena! lol -B.J. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 23:51:33 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:51:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene><544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> <4383d01d0811041512h5a8c6931xe66e1e49fb81cea9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3143B371D36C4DF09F238763449357CB@Ashley> Good, those visual codes are quite obstacles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > They got rid of most of the visual verification codes, and I don't > know if they got rid of the text-in-the-boxes for actually signing up, > though. > Beth > > On 11/4/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Serena, >> >> Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can >> independently sign up. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >>> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >>> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >>> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Donahue" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on >>> Facebook! >>> >>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone, >>>> >>>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use >>>> of >>>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>>> can >>>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>>> been >>>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Everybody, >>>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>>> >>>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>>> >>>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home >>>> and >>>> in your community. >>>> >>>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the >>>> lives >>>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and >>>> hope >>>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>>> >>>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. >>>> 2283 >>>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 5 00:11:16 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:11:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <006c01c93edb$063ed1f0$0201a8c0@Serene> I had the same 3 accommodations. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also >brailled. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. >> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI >> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. >> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. >> >> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to >> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic >> impact. So my questions. >> 1. What accomodations did you use? >> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more >> effective with braille. >> >> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, >> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >> Thanks >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 5 00:14:34 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:14:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <007a01c93edb$7be169e0$0201a8c0@Serene> I had cane travel, too, although I'm not considering it an accommodation cause it was through my Commission for the Blind and I thought Ashley meant things the school did to make things easier, like extra time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, orientation and >mobility training and extra time on tests. These were extremely effective. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rania" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were > also brailled. >>Rania, >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>> Hi all, > >>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience > to yours. >>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and > my TVI >>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on > tests. >>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially > though. > >>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was > asked to >>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other > academic >>> impact. So my questions. >>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been > more effective >>> with braille. > >>> 3. What should have been done that was not? > >>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille > handouts, >>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. > >>> Thanks >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma > il04%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 5 00:17:16 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:17:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> Message-ID: <008601c93edb$dca06970$0201a8c0@Serene> I have no clue cause I'm already signed up. My deaf-blind friend's mom actually has Facebook and says she'll help him sign up for it. I worned her what Peter said. We'll see what happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 5 00:20:22 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:20:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> Message-ID: <009001c93edc$4b89a950$0201a8c0@Serene> I forgot to say, if you individually email the technical support people at Facebook, telling them you're blind, they'll get rid of the visual varifications in your account. I did that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 00:27:03 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:27:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <9387510D344E4021850B35C2BBBEF628@MonkeyPaw> Peter, The sign-up process may very well be difficult for blind people. Yet the accessibility beyond is not troublesome, so while it may not be the most easy to initiate, it makes strategic sense to incorporate the very popular success of FaceBook into our recruitment efforts. The same is true of MySpace. We need to continue infiltrating such popular venues to attract more members. If the sign-up process is truly a nightmare, I see no reason why the NFB could not engage the company in the same dialogue that is said to be bringing about improvements to Apple software. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good afternoon everyone, Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth can forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been used to host this blog instead. What a shame! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carranza, Rosy" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hi Everybody, Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Nov 5 00:27:46 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:27:46 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get extra time on tests... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. >Rania, >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> Hi all, >> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. >> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI >> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. >> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. >> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to >> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic >> impact. So my questions. >> 1. What accomodations did you use? >> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective >> with braille. >> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, >> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> Thanks >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma il04%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From jj at bestmidi.com Wed Nov 5 00:27:47 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:27:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> Message-ID: B.J., that's awesome. I did for the first time in 2006 and it's certainly empowering. Our machines here have a button to turn off the screen, so that's the first thing I did. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sexton" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > Hello and Happy Elections, > > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties > or irregularities. > > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as > I did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of > this voting phenomena! > lol > > -B.J. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From brsmith2424 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 00:31:10 2008 From: brsmith2424 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:31:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Business Calculator Message-ID: I am considering taking a general business math course next semester. The course description notes: STUDENTS MUST PROVIDE THEIR OWN BUSINESS CALCULATOR, PREFERABLY HP-10B OR HP 10B2 I know that many of you have used the graphing calculator, but I don't think that would help much in this situation. Does anyone know If there are any equivalents to this calculator that I could use, provided I do sign up for this course? Brice From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Nov 5 00:47:56 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:47:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through Message-ID: <20081105004744.VLWG28684.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Did we used to? > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:03:28 +0100 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through >Yes, they come through. You do not receive a copy of the message when >it sends to the list. >----- >Corbb O'Connor >studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >Blog: http://corbbingalway.blogspot.com >Flirt Over Coffee Podcast: http://foc.mypodcast.com >On 21 Oct 2008, at 19:06, Jessica Kostiw wrote: >Dear List, >I am not sure if any of my messages are getting through on the list. >If any list member gets this message, would you mind replying to it. >Thanks, >Jesica >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/corbbo%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/sparklylicious%40sud denlink.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 5 00:51:46 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:51:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> Message-ID: <000b01c93ee0$af41a0c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, No. It's still there as of this afternoon. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Serena, Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can independently sign up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess > that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. > Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my > deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >> can >> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >> been >> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >> Hi Everybody, >> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >> >> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >> >> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >> in your community. >> >> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >> that you will tell your friends about us! >> >> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >> >> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:06:51 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:06:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am > a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to > fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't > theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like > Joseph said. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Hope, >> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >> technique >> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >> too >> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >> word >> "No" and "Stop That". >> >> Warmest Regards, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>> what >>> the nfb centers do. >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>> nails. I >>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>> God >>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>> eyes, >>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>> me. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>> >>>>> Dave >>> >>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>> still struggle >>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>> occasionally. >>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>> people. >>>>>> Why >>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>> have to >>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>> bunch of >>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>> out of >>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>> age, or >>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>> much of my >>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>> behavior is >>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>high >>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>the >>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>there is >>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>to >>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>setting >>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>and >>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>those >>>>>>>situations. >>> >>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>order >>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>be >>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>picks >>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>that >>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>it's >>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>him for >>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>the >>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>for >>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>not >>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>doing >>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>inside >>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>become so >>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>stop >>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>of a >>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>it. >>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>and >>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>the >>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>there >>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>care, >>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>their >>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>their >>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>than >>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>they've >>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>other >>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>social >>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>good >>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>to >>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>makes >>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>>>>>>Arielle >>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>> >>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>ronto.ca >>> >>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>> 40visi.com >>> >>> >>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Nov 5 01:10:20 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:10:20 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through Message-ID: <20081105011007.VRZK28684.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Are my messages getting through as well? > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:18:02 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through >Hi there, Jessica, >Got the message fine. >There have been attempts to upgrade the server for the lists, and some of >our web sites, so that may be causing interruptions. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jessica Kostiw" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:06 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through >> Dear List, >> I am not sure if any of my messages are getting through on the list. If >> any list member gets this message, would you mind replying to it. >> Thanks, >> Jesica >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/sparklylicious%40sud denlink.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:20:25 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:20:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> B.J., I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine somewhere. Beth On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: > Hello and Happy Elections, > > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties or > irregularities. > > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as I > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of > this voting phenomena! > lol > > -B.J. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:20:55 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:20:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through References: <018401c933a7$bc855720$b848a962@Jessica> <005201c93472$85abba70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <000501c93ee4$c11d2c70$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> It came threw. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through > Hi there, Jessica, > > Got the message fine. > > There have been attempts to upgrade the server for the lists, and some of > our web sites, so that may be causing interruptions. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jessica Kostiw" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:06 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through > > >> Dear List, >> I am not sure if any of my messages are getting through on the list. If >> any list member gets this message, would you mind replying to it. >> Thanks, >> Jesica >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:34:47 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:34:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <000b01c93ee0$af41a0c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> <000b01c93ee0$af41a0c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041734v2cecf784ybcfbed0e7e2728e2@mail.gmail.com> I knew it. It's there for all social networking sites. They need to make it clearer like in AIM. The AIM audio captchas are clearly spoken and I can hear them well enough to type them in. Beth On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good evening everyone, > > No. It's still there as of this afternoon. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:39 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:36:33 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:36:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041736g172253b3hed0f7ece6a71506d@mail.gmail.com> I could do the same at a pon shop for only $6. Beat that! Beth On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: > I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >> Joseph said. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>> Hope, >>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>> technique >>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >>> too >>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>> word >>> "No" and "Stop That". >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> Yolanda >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>> what >>>> the nfb centers do. >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>> nails. I >>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>> God >>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>> eyes, >>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>> me. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>> still struggle >>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>> people. >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>> have to >>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>> bunch of >>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>> out of >>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>> age, or >>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>> much of my >>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>> behavior is >>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>situations. >>>> >>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>> >>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>> >>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>> >>>>>>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>> 40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 01:38:22 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:38:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] freinds In-Reply-To: <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811041738l7e5a5b89v32d07bfc4db86d58@mail.gmail.com> You guys are right. Thanks. Beth On 11/4/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice >> >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at >>> >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 5 01:59:32 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:59:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <9387510D344E4021850B35C2BBBEF628@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <001501c93eea$275aeef0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joe and listers, NFB infiltrations of Apple and similar problematic Web sites etc did not occur until all major accessibility issues were resolved to where they could be used by a blind person independently. While there are accessibility glitches with iTunes yet to be resolved at least one can use the program and their Web site without needing to tangle with captchas, , etc. If we operated this and other blogs on NFB Net or via the national Web sites not only would we ensure their usability by blind and deaf-blind youth, but we would have complete control over the interface as a whole thus protecting it from alterations over which we would have no control. ** The sign-up process may very well be difficult for blind people. Yet the accessibility beyond is not troublesome. A. But if you're deaf-blind you're locked out. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message - From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, The sign-up process may very well be difficult for blind people. Yet the accessibility beyond is not troublesome, so while it may not be the most easy to initiate, it makes strategic sense to incorporate the very popular success of FaceBook into our recruitment efforts. The same is true of MySpace. We need to continue infiltrating such popular venues to attract more members. If the sign-up process is truly a nightmare, I see no reason why the NFB could not engage the company in the same dialogue that is said to be bringing about improvements to Apple software. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good afternoon everyone, Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth can forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been used to host this blog instead. What a shame! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carranza, Rosy" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hi Everybody, Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From cfoster at nfbco.org Wed Nov 5 02:13:10 2008 From: cfoster at nfbco.org (Chris Foster) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:13:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of Colorado to stream its 54th Annual State convention from Colorado Springs Message-ID: Subject: NFB of Colorado to stream its 54th Annual State convention from Colorado Springs Greetings, For the third year in a row, The National Federation of the Blind of Colorado will stream the general sessions and banquet of its annual state convention across the country and around the world over the Internet. In years past, we have had listeners log in from as far away as India and last year, Doctor Maurer called in on the phone to say a quick hello from the busy streets of central London. We want everyone to be a part of our fun, enthusiastic, and inspiring convention; even if you aren't with us in Colorado Springs. The convention will take place this weekend, Friday, November 7, through Sunday November 9. On Friday, our general sessions will run from 10:00 am till about 01:15 pm Mountain time. On Saturday, the sessions will run from 08:45 am till about 01:45 pm mountain time. Our banquet will run from about 07:00 pm to 09:00 pm mountain time. Our final session will start at 09:00 am on Sunday morning and will rap up no later than 11:47 am (mountain time) that same morning. Please see the attached agenda for exact times and for more information about our convention. You can join our stream by going to the NFB of Colorado web cite at www.nfbco.org and clinking on the link for our live stream. During our streaming sessions, you can call the sound crew at 720-897-nfbc or 720-897-6322 . You can also reach them via Skype at "nfbcolorado". Lastly, you can send the crew email at nfbco2008 at gmail.com Who knows? Your comments and questions may very well be forwarded on to Scott LaBarre or whoever the moderator happens to be at the time. You may even get to talk to the convention live! Wherever you are and from whatever time zone you're listening from, log in and have a great time joining with the members of the NFB of Colorado as we take the next step towards independents. Best Regards, Chris Foster National Federation of the Blind of Colorado Director of Community Relations Phone: 303-635-6583 Email: cfoster at nfbco.org Web Site: www.nfbco.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Final Agenda Tuesday Noon 11-04-083.doc Type: application/msword Size: 1440768 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 5 02:26:09 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:26:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene><544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> <008601c93edb$dca06970$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <001b01c93eed$dede6d60$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Serena and listers, Some deaf-blind youth don't have that luxury. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! I have no clue cause I'm already signed up. My deaf-blind friend's mom actually has Facebook and says she'll help him sign up for it. I worned her what Peter said. We'll see what happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 02:44:34 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:44:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio Message-ID: Alas, with Ohio down, the race is over. Antonio is one pitcher of choice richer. People should feel free to join us in Detroit when we take the debate to the bar. No doubt we'll continue to disagree over how well, or how bad, the Obama administration is doing by that point, but let there be no mistake that tonight marks a new page in history. So, for now, here's to Obama for turning that page, and to Antonio, for believing. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 02:45:45 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:45:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <097b01c93ef0$9ce3fcb0$88d8fe45@Dezman> Yeah, One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't just carry on normal conversations with you with talking about the blindness and "how amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". Dezman From kea_anderson at cox.net Wed Nov 5 07:48:28 2008 From: kea_anderson at cox.net (Karen Anderson) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 01:48:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> Hello all, I was looking around on facebook and noticed several new groups for students affiliated with the NFB. And I must say, several of them look really interesting. However, I have one concern. Since joining the federation it has been my understanding that we encourage everyone, whether they are a high partial or totally blind, to consider themselves blind. Our taglines are things like, “Changing what it means to be blind,” and “Voice of the Nation’s Blind.” Yet more and more frequently I find other terms showing up in our literature. The term “visually impaired,” is used in the group descriptions for both The NFB Café and Blind 411. I believe one of our greatest strengths, one of the things that sets us apart from other organizations, has always been that we do not divide people into categories based on how much vision they have. We believe that those with no vision at all can be just as successful as the highest partial. It seems to me that using terminology such as “visually impaired,” and “low vision,” changes that, and I fail to see what good can come from that division. I am extremely interested to see what the list, and particularly the members of the NABS board, have to say about this issue. Sincerely, Karen From freedmas at stolaf.edu Wed Nov 5 08:00:22 2008 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:00:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 12:14:57 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:14:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811050414q1033d329w95a989659f17cfd2@mail.gmail.com> Yep. I was hoping Obama would win anyway. Beth On 11/4/08, Joe Orozco wrote: > Alas, with Ohio down, the race is over. Antonio is one pitcher of choice > richer. People should feel free to join us in Detroit when we take the > debate to the bar. No doubt we'll continue to disagree over how well, or > how bad, the Obama administration is doing by that point, but let there be > no mistake that tonight marks a new page in history. So, for now, here's to > Obama for turning that page, and to Antonio, for believing. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. > Barrie > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 12:17:30 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:17:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811050417p4a414c3ate95f11e2e06f6f0a@mail.gmail.com> You're right. AIM has the same things, but it's much clearer and hearing impaired people could sign up for AIM sadly. Not that it's bad for hearing impaired people to sign up for AIM, but they need to be able to sign up for AIM. Beth On 11/5/08, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: > Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the > verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that > the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; > the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there > on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not > spambots. :) > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > > On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >> can >> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been >> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >> Hi Everybody, >> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >> >> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >> >> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >> in your community. >> >> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >> that you will tell your friends about us! >> >> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >> >> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 13:03:19 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:03:19 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> References: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> Message-ID: <4ed9a39a0811050503w2d095bf8u5fa473870f3c6589@mail.gmail.com> Hi Karen, Use of the term "visually impaired" is a marketing strategy. Many students with some residual vision may shy away from a group that says "blind," thinking that it is strictly for those who are totally blind. This is the same case when working with seniors, when we say "for seniors dealing with vision loss" as opposed to "blind seniors." Explaining the NFB philosophy in a nutshell on a group or marketing literature is tough, and I believe that is why we used that term. I've copied Rosy Carranza from the National Center on this list, and hope she might be able to provide some clarification. Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Karen Anderson wrote: > Hello all, > > > > I was looking around on facebook and noticed several new groups > for students affiliated with the NFB. And I must say, several of them look > really interesting. However, I have one concern. Since joining the > federation it has been my understanding that we encourage everyone, whether > they are a high partial or totally blind, to consider themselves blind. Our > taglines are things like, "Changing what it means to be blind," and "Voice > of the Nation's Blind." Yet more and more frequently I find other terms > showing up in our literature. The term "visually impaired," is used in the > group descriptions for both The NFB Café and Blind 411. I believe one of our > greatest strengths, one of the things that sets us apart from other > organizations, has always been that we do not divide people into categories > based on how much vision they have. We believe that those with no vision at > all can be just as successful as the highest partial. It seems to me that > using terminology such as "visually impaired," and "low vision," changes > that, and I fail to see what good can come from that division. > > I am extremely interested to see what the list, and particularly > the members of the NABS board, have to say about this issue. > > > > Sincerely, > > Karen > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 14:11:00 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandiah Damstra) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:11:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are luckier than you know. On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: > All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get > extra time on tests... > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rania" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were > also brailled. >>Rania, >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>> Hi all, > >>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience > to yours. >>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and > my TVI >>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on > tests. >>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially > though. > >>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was > asked to >>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other > academic >>> impact. So my questions. >>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been > more effective >>> with braille. > >>> 3. What should have been done that was not? > >>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille > handouts, >>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. > >>> Thanks >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma > il04%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From blindhistory at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 14:16:35 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:16:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I voted early (on friday) since my town is somewhat big and they didn't have an accessable machine. :( I voted with a machine last year and it wouldn't work half the time. It wouldn't get me past the part of the ballot that is the write in. Glad everyone had a good time voting this year. On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Beth wrote: > B.J., > I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible > voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an > accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, > maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine > somewhere. > Beth > > On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: > > Hello and Happy Elections, > > > > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties > or > > irregularities. > > > > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, > > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as > I > > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of > > this voting phenomena! > > lol > > > > -B.J. > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Nov 5 14:36:17 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:36:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio References: Message-ID: <003601c93f53$dd753010$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> I want to thank Joe Orozco for such spirited debate. It has been interesting, and no doubt enriching for me to go at it with a person who I have observed, and admired since the beginning. It's been a real exercise in building my arguments, and trying to refute the ones from the other point of view. It is good to win, I can't deny it, yet, we do have a new president who still has to face all of the problems he's wanted to face by running the election. I sure hope Obama is allowed to take this country, and it's governance completely, and creatively. Thanks to the people who participated in the threads, and especially for the list moderators. We know how to be civil, and you've allowed us to do so, since there wasn't much said in the form of attacks, and immaturity. I guess I did win, because I happened to pick the winner, but I'd like to think that this country has won too. I would hope our president elect will do a good job, but we'll soon find out. I do not expect politics to change much in Washington--there will continue to be divisiveness, controversy, differences, heated debates, and all of the same things one observes if she or he's looking at all. McCain was gracious in his speech, and Obama humble in his. Let's see if this can be extended for some time. I think of Obama as an inspirer, and of McCain as a compromiser. I believe he would have disappointed the republican base had he won. If you heard the speeches last night, you would have noticed much rumbling, and booing, and opposition, and disapproval, and disrespect for the president elect during McCain's conceding speech. This kind of reaction will not go away, but the respect, and appreciation McCain showed, even when losing, is the spirit of diplomacy, and respect. this is to be commended. thanks, and see you in Detroit. Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio > Alas, with Ohio down, the race is over. Antonio is one pitcher of choice > richer. People should feel free to join us in Detroit when we take the > debate to the bar. No doubt we'll continue to disagree over how well, or > how bad, the Obama administration is doing by that point, but let there be > no mistake that tonight marks a new page in history. So, for now, here's > to > Obama for turning that page, and to Antonio, for believing. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James > M. > Barrie > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 15:14:51 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <097b01c93ef0$9ce3fcb0$88d8fe45@Dezman> References: <097b01c93ef0$9ce3fcb0$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811050714q7b22d9d4i3d25bda13a7d3fb8@mail.gmail.com> I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my music. It sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting stuff, eh? Beth On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Yeah, > One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't just carry > on normal conversations with you with talking about the blindness and "how > amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". > > Dezman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jlastar at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 15:43:38 2008 From: jlastar at comcast.net (Jennifer Applegate) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:43:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Texas TABS elections.doc Message-ID: <000001c93f5d$45dd4fd0$6b14a8c0@jenniferspc> Greetings NABS members, here is an update on this past weekend's TABS elections at the Texas NFB convention. _____ Hello everyone, This past weekend Texas had it's state convention. The Texas Association of Blind Students had it's board meeting on Friday night and elected new officers as our president A.Z. Martinez is leaving. Our 1st Vice President Juan Del Rozario is the new President, our 2nd Vice President Melissa Reyna is Vice President, our Treasurer Emily Beckstein is 2nd Vice President, our Secretary is Gabriela Garibay reelected as the same position, our new Board Member #1 is Juan Carlos Munoz, and our Board Member #2 is Jennifer Applegate. We are all greatful for the leadership of A.Z. Martinez high goals accomplished throughout this past year including fundraising, our TABS Spring Confrence in San Antonio, and participation with the Education Advisory Board. As A.Z. is leaving he will be greatly missed, however we have a great group of officers who will work diligently to accomplish goals, serve the community through educating them about successful blind students and alternative independent blindness skills, along with serving the TABS members through networking activities and confrences for this next office term. Congratulations to the new TABS officers. As the saying goes We will eat our elephant one bite at a time. From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 16:20:07 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:20:07 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <001501c93eea$275aeef0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <9387510D344E4021850B35C2BBBEF628@MonkeyPaw> <001501c93eea$275aeef0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <27280948-6234-4076-B71E-58CE75C5E060@gmail.com> I think the idea behind the Facebook group is to attract NEW members. Attracting blind teens to the NFB.org site is tougher than finding them where they already spend most of their time -- on Facebook! On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:59 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Joe and listers, NFB infiltrations of Apple and similar problematic Web sites etc did not occur until all major accessibility issues were resolved to where they could be used by a blind person independently. While there are accessibility glitches with iTunes yet to be resolved at least one can use the program and their Web site without needing to tangle with captchas, , etc. If we operated this and other blogs on NFB Net or via the national Web sites not only would we ensure their usability by blind and deaf-blind youth, but we would have complete control over the interface as a whole thus protecting it from alterations over which we would have no control. ** The sign-up process may very well be difficult for blind people. Yet the accessibility beyond is not troublesome. A. But if you're deaf-blind you're locked out. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message - From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, The sign-up process may very well be difficult for blind people. Yet the accessibility beyond is not troublesome, so while it may not be the most easy to initiate, it makes strategic sense to incorporate the very popular success of FaceBook into our recruitment efforts. The same is true of MySpace. We need to continue infiltrating such popular venues to attract more members. If the sign-up process is truly a nightmare, I see no reason why the NFB could not engage the company in the same dialogue that is said to be bringing about improvements to Apple software. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."-- James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good afternoon everyone, Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth can forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been used to host this blog instead. What a shame! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carranza, Rosy" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hi Everybody, Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and in your community. The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope that you will tell your friends about us! If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Nov 5 17:06:23 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:06:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> Message-ID: <00d401c93f68$d54e58c0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Hello, I think it is important to recognize that not every person will identify themselves as blind. It is difficult to comprehend why a young elementary school student would resist braille just because she can see 5 feet in front of her face. Yet, I've seen this happen, and witnessed people, professionals in the field, parents, and those who should know better, avoid the child's resistance to learning braille. Do we drill into the student that they are blind, and will be blind, and that there is no way to avoid it? Or, do we invite that person into a group, where they can learn the philosophy that it is respectable to be blind? At what point do we give up our long held beliefs? I hope that we do not give them up. I also think that opening up the door by allowing a more diverse language, we participate in the blindness field without the militant perception. Just my 2 cents worth. Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Anderson" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:48 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Hello all, I was looking around on facebook and noticed several new groups for students affiliated with the NFB. And I must say, several of them look really interesting. However, I have one concern. Since joining the federation it has been my understanding that we encourage everyone, whether they are a high partial or totally blind, to consider themselves blind. Our taglines are things like, "Changing what it means to be blind," and "Voice of the Nation's Blind." Yet more and more frequently I find other terms showing up in our literature. The term "visually impaired," is used in the group descriptions for both The NFB Café and Blind 411. I believe one of our greatest strengths, one of the things that sets us apart from other organizations, has always been that we do not divide people into categories based on how much vision they have. We believe that those with no vision at all can be just as successful as the highest partial. It seems to me that using terminology such as "visually impaired," and "low vision," changes that, and I fail to see what good can come from that division. I am extremely interested to see what the list, and particularly the members of the NABS board, have to say about this issue. Sincerely, Karen _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 16:58:03 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:58:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting Message-ID: <4911d086.6105be0a.6d49.1b4c@mx.google.com> Beth, If I'm not mistaking, all polling places in all states have to have one accessible voting machine. Dezman -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting B.J., I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine somewhere. Beth On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: > Hello and Happy Elections, > > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties or > irregularities. > > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as I > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of > this voting phenomena! > lol > > -B.J. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From RCarranza at nfb.org Wed Nov 5 17:32:54 2008 From: RCarranza at nfb.org (Carranza, Rosy) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:32:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <000b01c93ee0$af41a0c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene><544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> <000b01c93ee0$af41a0c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B3663@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Peter, Although Facebook is not completely accessible, many blind people use it daily and it serves as a great recruitment tool for us. Be assured that we are aware of the accessibility issues and are initiating dialogue with Facebook to address some of the problems you have discussed . Our content management system does not offer the same functionalities as popular social networking sites. On Facebook, we have lots of wonderful tools to connect people to our organization. In this situation, not using Facebook is a mistake; we need to use as many tools as possible to find blind people and to spread our positive outlook about blindness. Certainly, accessibility is an issue to all of us, but, this is absolutely worth doing because their our countless blind people who need the resources that we have to offer. Also, as an organization, we need the talents that others who don't know about the NFB can bring into our movement. Further, this Facebook page is not the answer for everyone, and no single resource can meet the needs of our diverse community, but that is why it is especially important that we use multiple tools to get our word out. If you have additional questions, please contact me off-list at rcarranza at nfb.org. Thanks, Rosy Carranza -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good evening everyone, No. It's still there as of this afternoon. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Serena, Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can independently sign up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess > that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. > Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my > deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >> can >> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >> been >> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >> Hi Everybody, >> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >> >> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >> >> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >> in your community. >> >> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >> that you will tell your friends about us! >> >> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >> >> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcg lobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40ve rizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcg lobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rcarranza%40nfb. org From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 19:16:36 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:16:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051116n2244b9a4i5e627331c0414d4f@mail.gmail.com> Go Barack Obama! I'm glad at least everybody voted. I"m absolutely happy this is over now. Beth On 11/5/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: > I voted early (on friday) since my town is somewhat big and they didn't have > an accessable machine. :( I voted with a machine last year and it wouldn't > work half the time. It wouldn't get me past the part of the ballot that is > the write in. > > Glad everyone had a good time voting this year. > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Beth wrote: > >> B.J., >> I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible >> voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an >> accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, >> maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine >> somewhere. >> Beth >> >> On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >> > Hello and Happy Elections, >> > >> > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting >> > difficulties >> or >> > irregularities. >> > >> > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind >> > student, >> > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, >> > as >> I >> > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of >> > this voting phenomena! >> > lol >> > >> > -B.J. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 19:57:47 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:57:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna><4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000701c93f80$c74b89b0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I was able to voat with know problem. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lora and Myrtle" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting >I voted early (on friday) since my town is somewhat big and they didn't >have > an accessable machine. :( I voted with a machine last year and it wouldn't > work half the time. It wouldn't get me past the part of the ballot that is > the write in. > > Glad everyone had a good time voting this year. > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Beth wrote: > >> B.J., >> I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible >> voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an >> accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, >> maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine >> somewhere. >> Beth >> >> On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >> > Hello and Happy Elections, >> > >> > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting >> > difficulties >> or >> > irregularities. >> > >> > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind >> > student, >> > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, >> > as >> I >> > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity >> > of >> > this voting phenomena! >> > lol >> > >> > -B.J. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From terri.rupp at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 20:25:54 2008 From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:25:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: Karen and all, The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through differently. What we have to do is serve as possitive blind role models, and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply a characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. Yours, Terri Rupp, President National Association of Blind Students (707)-567-3019 nabs.president at gmail.com From terri.rupp at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 20:36:43 2008 From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:36:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare is Looking for a Blind Student for their Advisory Board Message-ID: Hi Terri, Thanks for getting back to me. Here's a brief description of what we're doing and how I hope you or someone from NABS can help. I'm also copying Donna McNear, the chair of the Board. As part of the Bookshare for Education award, we are in the process of constituting an Advisory Board. The Board is intended to represent a variety of constituencies including post-secondary students with print disabilities. I know that representation from NFB/NABS would be a major asset to the Board. NFB was a major supporter of B4E and our NFB-Newsline(R) Partnership is incredibly valuable to all Bookshare users. We are also very interested in identifying candidates with diverse backgrounds. Here is the specific charter of the Advisory Board, as proposed to OSEP: * In order to ensure a high level of feedback moving forward, we will establish a formal education advisory group that will play an active role in supporting the project leadership. * We will solicit involvement from SEA and LEA representatives, parents of individuals with print disabilities, Bookshare.org consumers with visual impairments and those with other print disabilities, policy makers, teachers, and technology vendors. * We expect this group to meet virtually on a quarterly basis, and to support accessible participation by all members. * Group members will review metrics, provide personal feedback and suggest specific enhancements to our ongoing operations to maximize the value of Bookshare.org to their constituents. I am hoping that you might be able to suggest some candidates that could well represent the parent community. Here's what we would be asking of the Advisory Panel members: The length of a member's tenure on the panel would be 2 years with a possible extension by mutual agreement of 2 more years. All travel expenses for participation would be paid by the project. Meetings would be held quarterly by phone with one in-person meeting per year at the most convenient location possible for all members. I don't know if you would be interesting in serving yourself or whether you would rather identify another student that might be willing to serve on the panel. If you could get back to me soon and let me know your reactions, I would be very appreciative. We'd plan on choosing one candidate to represent the students with vision impairments. We expect to have our next meeting in the late September/October timeframe if possible so we would like to get invitations out very soon. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. Thanks! Jim From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 20:52:59 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting References: <4911d086.6105be0a.6d49.1b4c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001601c93f88$7d132a80$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I called the board of elections in my county just to make sure and that is what they told me. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dezman Jackson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > Beth, > If I'm not mistaking, all polling places in all states have to have one > accessible voting machine. > > Dezman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:20 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > > B.J., > I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible > voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an > accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, > maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine > somewhere. > Beth > > On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >> Hello and Happy Elections, >> >> I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties >> or >> irregularities. >> >> You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, >> who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as >> I >> did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of >> this voting phenomena! >> lol >> >> -B.J. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 21:28:28 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:28:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> Franandiah, This is a crying shame. What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what you need. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandiah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE > LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get > nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is > about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My > sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal > vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have > some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do > anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I > go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are > luckier than you know. > > On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >> extra time on tests... >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rania" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >> also brailled. >>>Rania, >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >> to yours. >>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >> my TVI >>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >> tests. >>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >> though. >> >>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >> asked to >>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >> academic >>>> impact. So my questions. >>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >> more effective >>>> with braille. >> >>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >> handouts, >>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >> il04%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From jj at bestmidi.com Wed Nov 5 21:39:13 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:39:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook and Blind/Visually Impaired Message-ID: <44CC021CFC814FDD976FED0836A0B351@ginormous> I did not set up the group, but would have done the same thing. The simple reason is marketing. While we think of ourselves as blind, not all people we wish to serve do the same. We want to appeal to the widest group of people possible and then offer them our philosophies and views, which would certainly use the term blind instead. Hope this helps. J.J. From bjsexton at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 21:46:48 2008 From: bjsexton at comcast.net (Bruce Sexton) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:46:48 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: Message-ID: <067a01c93f90$01bca2f0$0200a8c0@donna> Dear Karen, I understand your concern with calling a person visually impaired. We are the National Federation of the Blind. I have personal experience with converting from using terms such as visually impaired and legally blind. I understand, and you understand the value of using such language as "Blind." It's powerful language that expresses how a person feels. As we introduce people to this concept, it is imperative that we consider the new person's feelings of their blindness. They have probably not yet been exposed to the freedoms that can be obtained by using non-visual techniques, alternative methods and powerful language so simple as "I am Blind" or National Federation OF the Blind (incases on the word "of" rather than the word "for.") Jim Omvig in his book "Freedom for the Blind" expresses this concept clearly when he says: "When a newly blinded individual is first met, however, and where that initial effort is to get the person interested at all in some kind of beneficial program, there are times when the school or agency specialist needs to be willing to tread lightly and even use some meaningless euphemisms. ".To get started simply, I asked a man whom we were visiting, "How long have you been blind?" Blind was not the word I should have used. "I'm not blind!" he virtually screamed out at me. As a novice, and perhaps as too much of a purist, I had failed to take into account that the people who have not yet accepted their blindness enough even to get to the point of taking needed training may need to be dealt with differently from those who have made the decision to get on with their lives. From that day forward, my approach changed completely when dealing with newly blinded people who had not yet agreed to get into a training program. "How long have you had 'poor eyesight,'" or some meaningless or useless variant thereof, became a routine part of my conversation. I did not want to make that same mistake again and, perhaps, even undo what had already been done to begin to persuade that potential new customer to get involved in proper training." Karen, I hope this makes sense. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to write! Sincerely, B.J. Sexton, board member National Association of Blind Students ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Karen and all, > The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. > Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the > federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a > negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their > blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I > didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt > ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance > of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through > differently. What we have to do is serve as possitive blind role models, > and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply > a > characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB > activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. > > Yours, > Terri Rupp, President > National Association of Blind Students > (707)-567-3019 > nabs.president at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bjsexton%40comcast.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 5 21:47:25 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:47:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook and PayPal References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene><544D6D593DBB497F94806B0ACF00426C@Ashley> <009001c93edc$4b89a950$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <01b301c93f90$181b69a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon Serena and listers, An even better idea would have been for the national office to create a user account for the blog, issue login information to subscribers without their own Facebook Accounts to save them the hassle of dealing with that captcha and being discouraged from subscribing. I've set up PayPal Accounts to permit affiliates to except donations via their Web sites. PayPal is configured to allow those with, or without PayPal accounts to donate online. Should blind individuals choose to contribute they will not be discouraged from doing so as they can use a credit card or an electronic check to make their contribution without having a PayPal Account. If affiliates with to use social sites like Facebook perhaps they should create a chapter/division account to permit members without their own site account to subscribe for a period of time. They could then assist them in setting up their own account. This way no one is, "Turned away at the door" if they wish to subscribe to these blogs. Glad to know that Facebooks will remove captchas for blind individuals. Peter Donahue in ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! I forgot to say, if you individually email the technical support people at Facebook, telling them you're blind, they'll get rid of the visual varifications in your account. I did that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Serena, > > Did they get rid of the visual verification code? I hope you can > independently sign up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > >> Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess >> that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. >> Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my >> deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >>> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >>> can >>> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >>> been >>> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >>> >>> >>> Hi Everybody, >>> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >>> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >>> >>> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >>> >>> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >>> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >>> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >>> in your community. >>> >>> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >>> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >>> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >>> that you will tell your friends about us! >>> >>> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >>> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >>> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >>> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >>> >>> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >>> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 5 21:47:37 2008 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. Message-ID: Hey listers, I am posting because I am rather annoyed I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to use the visual verification codes for security reasons. Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can answer instead? I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's help because of the annoying verification image. the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to those of us who are visually impaired. this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also agree with me on that matter. anyway, I updated my live journal go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com Thank you very much. Priscilla From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 5 21:54:35 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 22:11:30 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:11:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <001601c93f88$7d132a80$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <4911d086.6105be0a.6d49.1b4c@mx.google.com> <001601c93f88$7d132a80$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051411y5876b614pebc313ae1188046e@mail.gmail.com> Well, Governor Crist said they have to emit a paper trail, so the accessible machine back in my hometown was disconnected for good. Beth On 11/5/08, Rania wrote: > I called the board of elections in my county just to make sure and that is > what they told me. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dezman Jackson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > > >> Beth, >> If I'm not mistaking, all polling places in all states have to have one >> accessible voting machine. >> >> Dezman >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:20 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting >> >> B.J., >> I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible >> voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an >> accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, >> maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine >> somewhere. >> Beth >> >> On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >>> Hello and Happy Elections, >>> >>> I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties >>> >>> or >>> irregularities. >>> >>> You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, >>> who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as >>> >>> I >>> did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of >>> this voting phenomena! >>> lol >>> >>> -B.J. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Wed Nov 5 22:12:31 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:12:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you read braille music? Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my music. It >sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting stuff, >eh? >Beth >On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Yeah, >> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't just carry >> on normal conversations with you with talking about the blindness and "how >> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >> Dezman >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 22:13:43 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051413p7d45744agb20105d5d75e184a@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Franandaya. Welcome to the list. Feel fre to introduce yourself any time. Beth On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: > Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE > LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get > nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is > about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My > sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal > vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have > some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do > anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I > go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are > luckier than you know. > > On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >> extra time on tests... >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rania" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >> also brailled. >>>Rania, >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >> to yours. >>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >> my TVI >>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >> tests. >>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >> though. >> >>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >> asked to >>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >> academic >>>> impact. So my questions. >>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >> more effective >>>> with braille. >> >>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >> handouts, >>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >> il04%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From snowball07 at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 22:33:11 2008 From: snowball07 at gmail.com (Janice) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:33:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this group is for you too! Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness group of facebook! ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? Thoughtfully yours, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Karen and all, > The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. > Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the > federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a > negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their > blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I > didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt > ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance > of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through > differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, > and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply > a > characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB > activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. > > Yours, > Terri Rupp, President > National Association of Blind Students > (707)-567-3019 > nabs.president at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 23:01:34 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 23:01:34 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> Peter, I empathize with your situation. Let me play devil's advocate here. The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the > use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind > youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should > have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give > you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home > and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the > lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and > hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. > 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 23:06:10 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 23:06:10 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> Message-ID: <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this group is for you too! Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness group of facebook! ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? Thoughtfully yours, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Karen and all, > The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. > Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy > of the > federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is > sometimes a > negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their > blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > them. I > didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I > felt > ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The > acceptance > of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through > differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > models, > and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is > simply > a > characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > promote NFB > activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. > > Yours, > Terri Rupp, President > National Association of Blind Students > (707)-567-3019 > nabs.president at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From blindhistory at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 00:02:31 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:02:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811051116n2244b9a4i5e627331c0414d4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811051116n2244b9a4i5e627331c0414d4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: well they didn't. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Beth wrote: > Go Barack Obama! I'm glad at least everybody voted. I"m absolutely > happy this is over now. > Beth > > On 11/5/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: > > I voted early (on friday) since my town is somewhat big and they didn't > have > > an accessable machine. :( I voted with a machine last year and it > wouldn't > > work half the time. It wouldn't get me past the part of the ballot that > is > > the write in. > > > > Glad everyone had a good time voting this year. > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Beth wrote: > > > >> B.J., > >> I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible > >> voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an > >> accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, > >> maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine > >> somewhere. > >> Beth > >> > >> On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: > >> > Hello and Happy Elections, > >> > > >> > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting > >> > difficulties > >> or > >> > irregularities. > >> > > >> > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind > >> > student, > >> > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, > >> > as > >> I > >> > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity > of > >> > this voting phenomena! > >> > lol > >> > > >> > -B.J. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From jj at bestmidi.com Thu Nov 6 00:11:20 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:11:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <812F23C1D02C455A941E910C5722A4F2@ginormous> Peter, You're totally missing the point. The idea here is to market to as many outlets as possible. This isn't a replacement of the NFB website, but another alternative. We should be promoting to as many avenues as possible. It's this backwards thinking that discourages growth in our organization. How will new people find us, except for by accident, if we don't make a presence where they are? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Hello Sydney and listers, > > I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio > captcha. > These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and > audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with > hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing > character > codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't > access > this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution > for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring > verification of one kind or another. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the > verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that > the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; > the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there > on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not > spambots. :) > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > > On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of >> visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth >> can >> forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have >> been >> used to host this blog instead. What a shame! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carranza, Rosy" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! >> >> >> Hi Everybody, >> Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new >> Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: >> >> Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! >> >> Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to >> give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a >> chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and >> in your community. >> >> The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We >> have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives >> of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope >> that you will tell your friends about us! >> >> If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the >> group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are >> not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit >> www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. >> >> If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 >> or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From jj at bestmidi.com Thu Nov 6 00:12:53 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:12:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92528E6E26634ADAACABD7A0CA88681E@ginormous> I made a point awhile back on the webmasters list which was very similar. I noticed our state site and others would show up for searches on Google with the word blind but not the word visually impaired. Sometimes, the product needs to be tweaked subtly to bring in more visitors and hopefully members. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket >marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we >want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading >the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization >before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't >think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to >find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, >students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive >philosophy on blindness. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > > Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > > Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as > nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed > something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. > It > might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually > impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These > people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want > to > identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this > group is for you too! > Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that > we > are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the > visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be > recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > > However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and > if > we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new > individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific > facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the > most > recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention > blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense > according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually > impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology > visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? > > Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to > other > Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject > line > :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the > NABS > list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired > Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness > group of facebook! > ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, > also. I > am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. > Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that > perhaps > trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur > the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind > members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as > solid > , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> > > I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us > debate > this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our > philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what > it > stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? > > Thoughtfully yours, > > Janice > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > To: "NABS list serve" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of >> the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes >> a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >> acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >> simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote >> NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >> (707)-567-3019 >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 00:33:57 2008 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:33:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <00d401c93f68$d54e58c0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> <00d401c93f68$d54e58c0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <423e6e460811051633s13ef5fbbs1e48976a65c94772@mail.gmail.com> Hi Karen and Listers, I remember meeting a few people when I was younger who told me that when they attended NFB training centers they were given personal tools to build their self confidence up in order to be able to say without shame that they are blind. I also , know people today who can barely see a foot in front of them and who struggle so hard to read print say that they are only visually impaired. Personally, I really don't care for the words visually impared. In my opinion its an excuse for people to avoid the word blind because its scarry and there are unfortunate stereotypical implications that come with it. However, throwing in the words visually impaired gives people who don't consider themselves blind a chance to learn about the NFB and its philosophy without feeling like they are being alienated for not calling themselves blind. Hopefully when they learn about our philosophy and have the opportunity to meet competent and successful blind people they will learn that it is okay to call themselves blind. I hope this helps!! Best Wishes, Domonique On 11/5/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello, > > I think it is important to recognize that not every person will identify > themselves as blind. It is difficult to comprehend why a young elementary > school student would resist braille just because she can see 5 feet in front > of her face. Yet, I've seen this happen, and witnessed people, professionals > in the field, parents, and those who should know better, avoid the child's > resistance to learning braille. > > Do we drill into the student that they are blind, and will be blind, and > that there is no way to avoid it? Or, do we invite that person into a group, > where they can learn the philosophy that it is respectable to be blind? > > At what point do we give up our long held beliefs? I hope that we do not > give them up. I also think that opening up the door by allowing a more > diverse language, we participate in the blindness field without the militant > perception. > > Just my 2 cents worth. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen Anderson" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Hello all, > > > > I was looking around on facebook and noticed several new groups > for students affiliated with the NFB. And I must say, several of them look > really interesting. However, I have one concern. Since joining the > federation it has been my understanding that we encourage everyone, whether > they are a high partial or totally blind, to consider themselves blind. Our > taglines are things like, "Changing what it means to be blind," and "Voice > of the Nation's Blind." Yet more and more frequently I find other terms > showing up in our literature. The term "visually impaired," is used in the > group descriptions for both The NFB Café and Blind 411. I believe one of our > greatest strengths, one of the things that sets us apart from other > organizations, has always been that we do not divide people into categories > based on how much vision they have. We believe that those with no vision at > all can be just as successful as the highest partial. It seems to me that > using terminology such as "visually impaired," and "low vision," changes > that, and I fail to see what good can come from that division. > > I am extremely interested to see what the list, and particularly > the members of the NABS board, have to say about this issue. > > > > Sincerely, > > Karen > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 00:37:10 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:37:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> Message-ID: <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am confused.  If someone could please explain this to me, I would appreciate it.  I am totally blind, so I am not in denial of blidness, but to me there is a significant difference in having 20/200 vision and having no vision at all.  Your vision is then impaired, not completely gone; you do use alternative techniques, but are those not alternative techniques for someone with only partial visio nrather than complete blindness?   I'm not trying to irritate anyone; I truly do not know why the NFB is so adament about saying people are blind.   Thanks!   Harry --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Janice wrote: From: Janice Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:33 PM Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this group is for you too! Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness group of facebook! ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? Thoughtfully yours, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Karen and all, > The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. > Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the > federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a > negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their > blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I > didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt > ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance > of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through > differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, > and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply > a > characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB > activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. > > Yours, > Terri Rupp, President > National Association of Blind Students > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Thu Nov 6 00:50:30 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:50:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. Message-ID: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi. Someone told me that you can get a plug in for fire fox that will solve the visual captia. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "priscilla" To: "nabs-l" Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 >Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. >Hey listers, >I am posting because I am rather annoyed >I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to use the visual verification codes for security reasons. >Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can answer instead? >I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's help because of the annoying verification image. >the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to those of us who are visually impaired. >this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also agree with me on that matter. >anyway, I updated my live journal >go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com >Thank you very much. >Priscilla >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From monika_r_r at hotmail.com Thu Nov 6 01:25:17 2008 From: monika_r_r at hotmail.com (Monika Reinholz) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:25:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] In Need Of Place to Stay Message-ID: Hi all,My mom and I need to be in Denver from Nov. 24-about 26 (Littleton) and then again from Dec. 1-3 (Aurora). I have some legal issues that I need to get taken care of during those days. I was hoping someone might be willing to give us crash space so we don't have to drive back and forth every day as we can't afford a motel. We will do our own food but we just need a place to stay overnight. If you can help us, it would be greatly appreciated. Please email me at monika_r_r at hotmail.com or call at 719-635-6468 or 719-213-0523. You can talk to my Mom, Angelika, or myself.Thanks in advance,Monika Reinholz From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 01:45:48 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:45:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com><01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c93fb1$6639b8f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Corb and listers, The spam argument is no excuse to deny individuals access to online Web and other applications. Perhaps all would be served by another method of verification. They exist and should be used to enable all individuals to access Web services. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, I empathize with your situation. Let me play devil's advocate here. The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the > use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind > youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should > have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give > you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home > and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the > lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and > hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. > 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 01:50:46 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:50:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. References: Message-ID: <005301c93fb2$16b614d0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening again everyone, One more point. If we as an organization oppose the use of this method of authentication and use services which require it don't we open ourselves up to attacks from the other side of the fence? Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: "nabs-l" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. Hey listers, I am posting because I am rather annoyed I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to use the visual verification codes for security reasons. Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can answer instead? I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's help because of the annoying verification image. the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to those of us who are visually impaired. this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also agree with me on that matter. anyway, I updated my live journal go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com Thank you very much. Priscilla _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 01:56:14 2008 From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <015501c93fb2$e32a0440$a97e0cc0$@com> Isn't there some sort of plugin with firefox that is supposed to read captias? I understand some people m, but... maybe this thingy is usable?ay not use firefox -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Corbb O'Connor Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, I empathize with your situation. Let me play devil's advocate here. The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the > use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind > youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should > have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give > you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home > and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the > lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and > hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. > 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed u > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm ail.com From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 01:58:55 2008 From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:58:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <001601c93f88$7d132a80$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <4911d086.6105be0a.6d49.1b4c@mx.google.com> <001601c93f88$7d132a80$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <015601c93fb3$42349d10$c69dd730$@com> Really? Tallahassy is the capital city... You'd think they'd have a voting machine... I mean, wow... -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting I called the board of elections in my county just to make sure and that is what they told me. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dezman Jackson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > Beth, > If I'm not mistaking, all polling places in all states have to have one > accessible voting machine. > > Dezman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:20 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Voting > > B.J., > I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible > voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an > accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, > maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine > somewhere. > Beth > > On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >> Hello and Happy Elections, >> >> I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting difficulties >> or >> irregularities. >> >> You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind student, >> who voted for the first time independently with an accessible machine, as >> I >> did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity of >> this voting phenomena! >> lol >> >> -B.J. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm ail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Nov 6 02:18:55 2008 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:18:55 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <000001c93f1a$e45a42f0$5ace5d81@D9X704B1> Message-ID: <4252AADD799943C0BAE3DE9CF29282B6@owner96190708e> Karen: >From a philosophical point of view, I agree with you completely. However, in setting up chat-rooms, email lists and the like, we are trying to serve two gods, each of which is a jealous god. One is the god of purity of philosophical thought -- the god you worship -- rightly, in my estimation. Yet there is another god to which we must make obeisance if we are to increase our numbers -- the god of inclusiveness. This god, too, is a jealous god. And these gods are sometimes in conflict. Why? Because there are certain members of the blind community -- those with remaining vision, some of whom need our help to learn to respect themselves and function as blind persons -- but who at present don't consider themselves blind. IN fact, they shreak at the thought of using the B-word and of considering themselves (gasp) blind. Moreover, we often need them as many of them are talented people, bursting with ideas that could energize and assist us. So what do we do? We must walk a tightrope between using too many wiesel-words and being so dogmatic that we turn people off who might make great members. There is no universal answer. It's a judgment call. So we use namby-pamby language when we think it will do more good than harm and we talk straight when we're trying to educate. Does it work all the time? Nope. But if it brings in a few members -- especially those that would not consider being with "those blind people", it's probably worth it. I'm sure this won't satisfy you. But nothing is cut-and-dried in this vale of tears. Mike Freeman, President National Federation of the Blind of Washington ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Anderson" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Hello all, I was looking around on facebook and noticed several new groups for students affiliated with the NFB. And I must say, several of them look really interesting. However, I have one concern. Since joining the federation it has been my understanding that we encourage everyone, whether they are a high partial or totally blind, to consider themselves blind. Our taglines are things like, "Changing what it means to be blind," and "Voice of the Nation's Blind." Yet more and more frequently I find other terms showing up in our literature. The term "visually impaired," is used in the group descriptions for both The NFB Café and Blind 411. I believe one of our greatest strengths, one of the things that sets us apart from other organizations, has always been that we do not divide people into categories based on how much vision they have. We believe that those with no vision at all can be just as successful as the highest partial. It seems to me that using terminology such as "visually impaired," and "low vision," changes that, and I fail to see what good can come from that division. I am extremely interested to see what the list, and particularly the members of the NABS board, have to say about this issue. Sincerely, Karen _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From hope.paulos at maine.edu Thu Nov 6 02:20:19 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:20:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081106021940.DSVW24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> You're not the only one who is confused, Harry. I was going to say the same thing but was too shy to. I have a friend who uses a guide dog, but can read large print, watch movies (and describe to me what's happening on the screen) and use a computer with screen magnification software. This is much different than me being totally blind. I don't think lumping people that have quite a bit of sight and those who have no sight into one category is a good idea. Yes, we all have vision loss, but can they be considered blind even though they have sight? Yes, again, they're able to be a part of Nfb, because they have less vision than fully sighted individuals. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Harry Hogue To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:37:10 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I am confused.  If someone could please explain this to me, I would appreciate it.  I am totally blind, so I am not in denial of blidness, but to me there is a significant difference in having 20/200 vision and having no vision at all.  Your vision is then impaired, not completely gone; you do use alternative techniques, but are those not alternative techniques for someone with only partial visio nrather than complete blindness? >  >I'm not trying to irritate anyone; I truly do not know why the NFB is so adament about saying people are blind. >  >Thanks! >  >Harry >--- On Wed, 11/5/08, Janice wrote: >From: Janice Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:33 PM >Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed >something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It >might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually >impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These >people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to >identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this >group is for you too! >Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we >are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the >visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if >we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new >individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most >recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually >impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology >visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other >Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line >:"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the >NABS >list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired >Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >group of facebook! >? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. >Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps >trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid >, and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate >this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it >stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? >Thoughtfully yours, >Janice >----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I >felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu From hope.paulos at maine.edu Thu Nov 6 02:20:24 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:20:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081106021944.DSXA24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi there! I too wanted to welcome you to the list. Have you spoken to your local Nfb chapter about your schooling issues? If not, you should do so because perhaps they will be able to help you get more accommodations. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >Hello, Franandaya. Welcome to the list. Feel fre to introduce >yourself any time. >Beth >On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 02:23:42 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandiah Damstra) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:23:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hm...to me it never was an issue. I really just accepted the fact that I may need to get help for such acasions. I just ask someone. To me, it really isn't that huge. On 11/5/08, priscilla wrote: > Hey listers, > I am posting because I am rather annoyed > > I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to use the > visual verification codes for security reasons. > Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can answer > instead? > I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's help > because of the annoying verification image. > the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to those of us > who are visually impaired. > this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also agree with > me on that matter. > > anyway, I updated my live journal > go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com > > Thank you very much. > > Priscilla > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From bjsexton at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 02:53:12 2008 From: bjsexton at comcast.net (Bruce Sexton) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:53:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3773750F11F74C6B8051B01287A7B09B@FATSO> Dear Harry, You're question is not irritating. To me blindness describes me as a whole person. When I described myself as "Visually Impaired" or "Legally Blind" I described a person who lived in two worlds, the world of the blind and the world of the sighted, but didn't fit in either. I was taught to use ineffective methods that I have affectionately come to term "forced seeing." Most low vision methods of core value such as reading, writing, traveling, cooking, cleaning and computer use are almost always more cumbersome then their sister alternative technique for the blind. There is no substitute for Braille, sleep shade cane travel, or speech reading software, and the many techniques one uses when cooking. The bottom line is, if you are legally blind, your vision is unreliable. Conversely, blindness techniques are reliable in the rain, the dark, when a shadow approaches, in a buffet line, stepping down or up a curb, or in any other situation one's vision might fail. This reliance on non-visual techniques allows a visually impaired person to be secure in his surroundings unlike any other. thus calling one's self blind, gives them the freedom to take advantage of these non-visual techniques without guilt. It brings power to the word and to the person's life who uses it! Thanks for the question! Sincerely, B.J. Sexton From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 02:54:05 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:54:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. In-Reply-To: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051854w33504e52lb22d72baadf108c5@mail.gmail.com> Don't we have resolutions about this issue? We had a resolution passed which stated very clearly that we don't like visual verifications, don't like anything that holds deaf/blind people back, and don't like to see it online. Beth On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi. Someone told me that you can get a plug in for fire fox that > will solve the visual captia. > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "priscilla" >To: "nabs-l" >Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 >>Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. > >>Hey listers, >>I am posting because I am rather annoyed > >>I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to > use the visual verification codes for security reasons. >>Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can > answer instead? >>I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's > help because of the annoying verification image. >>the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to > those of us who are visually impaired. >>this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also > agree with me on that matter. > >>anyway, I updated my live journal >>go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com > >>Thank you very much. > >>Priscilla >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 02:55:38 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:55:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811051116n2244b9a4i5e627331c0414d4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051855m29900c3bl830f0be0bef399cf@mail.gmail.com> So why isn't anybody doing anything about that, huh? Beth On 11/5/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: > well they didn't. > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Go Barack Obama! I'm glad at least everybody voted. I"m absolutely >> happy this is over now. >> Beth >> >> On 11/5/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >> > I voted early (on friday) since my town is somewhat big and they didn't >> have >> > an accessable machine. :( I voted with a machine last year and it >> wouldn't >> > work half the time. It wouldn't get me past the part of the ballot that >> is >> > the write in. >> > >> > Glad everyone had a good time voting this year. >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Beth wrote: >> > >> >> B.J., >> >> I had to vote absentee because I don't think they had accessible >> >> voting in my hometownplus I don't think Tallahassee's got an >> >> accessible voting thing. If there areany Tallahasseeans on list, >> >> maybe there should be a hookup to an accessible voting machine >> >> somewhere. >> >> Beth >> >> >> >> On 11/4/08, Bruce Sexton wrote: >> >> > Hello and Happy Elections, >> >> > >> >> > I just heard on the news that they want to hear about voting >> >> > difficulties >> >> or >> >> > irregularities. >> >> > >> >> > You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think, if you were a blind >> >> > student, >> >> > who voted for the first time independently with an accessible >> >> > machine, >> >> > as >> >> I >> >> > did, that you should call CNN or fox news and report the irregularity >> of >> >> > this voting phenomena! >> >> > lol >> >> > >> >> > -B.J. >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 02:56:55 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:56:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol Beth On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you > read braille music? > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction > >>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my > music. It >>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting > stuff, >>eh? >>Beth > >>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> Yeah, >>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't > just carry >>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the > blindness and "how >>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". > >>> Dezman >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From josh.harper108 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 03:16:29 2008 From: josh.harper108 at yahoo.com (josh harper) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:16:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com> <01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> <015501c93fb2$e32a0440$a97e0cc0$@com> Message-ID: <282426.78648.qm@web58807.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The plug in is called WebVisum. It works rely great for captias and other stuff. Josh Harper ________________________________ From: Karrie Kinstetter To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 7:56:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Isn't there some sort of plugin with firefox that is supposed to read captias? I understand some people m, but... maybe this thingy is usable?ay not use firefox -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Corbb O'Connor Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, I empathize with your situation. Let me play devil's advocate here. The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the > use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind > youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should > have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give > you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home > and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the > lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and > hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. > 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed u > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/josh.harper108%40yahoo.com From snowball07 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 04:03:32 2008 From: snowball07 at gmail.com (Janice) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 22:03:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55EAB6D421F649DB917063E463CFEFE8@JJeangPC> Hello Corbb and fellow listers, I might just like philosophical debates and being able to see where my fellow nabs members stand- LOL! I feel it helps my own philosophy also. However, I think I can see where you are coming from... However, I only brought the subject line up as one such example... Not the end all of examples. The subject line example was also stated as a precursor to the idea that the change in terminology, seems to be happening more frequently. For example, even in the production of our own newsletters, etc... I have witnessed the term visually impaired. I cannot come up with specifics on which newsletters and in what format right now but have seen it recent, where as I do not think I have witnessed it before... My sincerest question is, if it is just marketing.... are we marketing to our own also? I am also wondering if this demarks a new trend in the Federation? Are we moving away from being seen as staunch and rigid, as one lister had stated,and now trying to be seen as more inclusive? Under what instances would it be acceptable to use the terms visually impaired, visually challenged, low vision, etc.... What is the methodology one would use to manage these instances of "double speak and double speak"? I am honestly trying to learn to walk that tight rope Mike Freeman had mentioned. In my own internal debates of trying to please both gods, what is the methodology and how are others reconciling this? I would love any more thoughts, since I think it is important for us all to understand how to balance our true philosophy and the use of, "... some meaningless or useless variant thereof..." according to Mr. Omvig's quote. I guess I am just grappling with the issue myself and trying to see if we have some sort of standard, or what others have found helps with my slight disconnect. I ask because I have been working with and mentoring a very young blind individual myself and am wondering about recent comments on tactics. Thanks guys and keep the good ideas and philosophical thoughts rolling. Kindest Regards, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket >marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we >want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading >the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization >before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't >think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to >find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, >students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive >philosophy on blindness. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > > Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > > Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as > nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed > something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. > It > might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually > impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These > people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want > to > identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this > group is for you too! > Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that > we > are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the > visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be > recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > > However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and > if > we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new > individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific > facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the > most > recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention > blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense > according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually > impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology > visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? > > Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to > other > Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject > line > :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the > NABS > list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired > Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness > group of facebook! > ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, > also. I > am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. > Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that > perhaps > trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur > the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind > members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as > solid > , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> > > I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us > debate > this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our > philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what > it > stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? > > Thoughtfully yours, > > Janice > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > To: "NABS list serve" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of >> the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes >> a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >> acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >> simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote >> NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >> (707)-567-3019 >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Nov 6 05:06:37 2008 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:06:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Message-ID: Hello, It has been a while since I posted a message on here, but I welcome your ideas and opinions on a situation I have encountered while using computers on campus. I may be wrong here, but I have always thought that if a college provided services such as access to computers on campus to sighted students, then they should provide this same service to blind students as well. I have tried searching for what the college or disabilities office should be responsible for in terms of providing technology on campus, but so far I have not been able to find anything on this subject. Currently the community college I am attending is attempting to provide access to accessible technology on campus such as screen readers, scanning software, and Braille translation. However, the college is failing miserably at installing these programs correctly on the computer and keeping them up to date. They said they would have everything up and running before the beginning of the semester, but I am still having problems using computers on campus. I am not quite sure how to go about solving this problem. Is the college and the disabilities office responsible for providing accessible computers on campus for blind students? And if so, what can I do to ensure that my college or disabilities office installs accessible technology properly so that I can actually use a computer on campus without receiving error messages on technology that is not installed properly? Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 From dandrews at visi.com Thu Nov 6 05:22:11 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:22:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Business Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you don't get a good answer here, you might also check on our Blindmath list. I believe there is an accessible scientific calculator that someone sells, but don't know about business calculator. You might be able to use laptop and Excel if you have access to that too -- will probably need to talk to the Professor in advance. Dave At 06:31 PM 11/4/2008, you wrote: >I am considering taking a general business math course next semester. >The course description notes: > >STUDENTS MUST PROVIDE THEIR OWN BUSINESS CALCULATOR, PREFERABLY HP-10B >OR HP 10B2 >I know that many of you have used the graphing calculator, but I don't >think that would help much in this situation. Does anyone know If >there are any equivalents to this calculator that I could use, >provided I do sign up for this course? > >Brice > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.6/1766 - Release Date: >11/4/2008 8:26 AM From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 6 05:47:47 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:47:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: I also had Braille handouts, tests, and textbooks. I got double time for tests. I wouldn't say there was much I would have changed. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Hi all, > > I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. > I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI > was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. > As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. > > In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to > present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic > impact. So my questions. > 1. What accomodations did you use? > 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective > with braille. > > 3. What should have been done that was not? > > Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, > audio texts, and extended time on tests. > > Thanks > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 6 05:48:56 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:48:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <01ad01c93ebd$76fb94f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <005501c93eb8$a180d7d0$0201a8c0@Serene> <01ad01c93ebd$76fb94f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: I wrote to facebook when they changed it to their new version saying it wasn't accessible and they ignored me. Maybe we should all write. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello Serina and listers, That is until Facebook changes their interface possibly making it inaccessible to blind users. The same thing happened with MySpace a few months ago. I recall reading a thread about this on this list. And there won't be a thing we can do about it in the short run! Had the blog been hosted in-house on our own server we'd have greater control over changes to the interface, access, and security. It is now possible to install Wordpress and other blogging software on NFB Net allowing us to have the same control over this new outreach method, and would assure that all blind and deaf-blind teens can participate. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Good point, peter, although many blind people use Facebook, so, I guess that's why NFB decided to use it as the place to have the teen group. Thanks for pointing out the problem for deaf-blind people. No wonder my deaf-blind friend doesn't use it! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 6 05:49:39 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:49:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after school. It was pretty awesome. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These were extremely effective. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. >Rania, >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> Hi all, >> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. >> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI >> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. >> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. >> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to >> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic >> impact. So my questions. >> 1. What accomodations did you use? >> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective >> with braille. >> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, >> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> Thanks >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma il04%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 6 05:50:46 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:50:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> Message-ID: I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds Albert, I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy it. Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go to some and get something out of it. She said "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to > concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is > fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't > know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand > and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; > and going to parties and such." It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is what you want to do. No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. Some students go in groups; others go alone. Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and most are just acquaintances, not close friends. But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Yoo" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to > a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if > you were alone. Albert > > >> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Beth, >> >> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at >> a >> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >> if >> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >> should >> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >> So people do do big things alone. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>> people >>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>> the >>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>> golf! >>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>> person >>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>> ask >>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>> in >>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>> to >>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>> in >>>> a >>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>> (like >>>> one >>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>> lol--and >>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>> Spanish >>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>> is >>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>> these >>>> feelings. >>>> >>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>> thing, >>>> not >>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>> else >>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>> sports >>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>> that >>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>> say--but >>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>> is >>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>> way >>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>> person >>>> to >>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>> adapted >>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>> I >>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Beth >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>> >>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>> wouldn't give up. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>> >>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>> and >>>> this >>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>> found >>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. >>>>> I >>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>> people >>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>> sighted >>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>> because >>>> I >>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>> them >>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>> that >>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>> listen to >>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>> lunch on >>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>> >>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>> though >>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>> you >>>> walk >>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>> skill >>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>> other >>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>> they >>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>> other >>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>> days >>>> I >>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>> high >>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>> have >>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>> just too >>>>> busy! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail .com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 6 05:54:06 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:54:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught from day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder if anyone else has any thoughts. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am > a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to > fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't > theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like > Joseph said. > Beth > > On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Hope, >> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >> technique >> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >> too >> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >> word >> "No" and "Stop That". >> >> Warmest Regards, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>> what >>> the nfb centers do. >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>> nails. I >>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>> God >>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>> eyes, >>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>> me. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>> >>>>> Dave >>> >>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>> still struggle >>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>> occasionally. >>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>> people. >>>>>> Why >>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>> have to >>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>> bunch of >>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>> out of >>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>> age, or >>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>> much of my >>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>> behavior is >>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>high >>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>the >>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>there is >>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>to >>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>setting >>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>and >>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>those >>>>>>>situations. >>> >>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>order >>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>be >>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>picks >>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>that >>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>it's >>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>him for >>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>the >>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>for >>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>not >>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>doing >>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>inside >>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>become so >>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>stop >>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>of a >>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>it. >>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>and >>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>the >>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>there >>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>care, >>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>their >>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>> >>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>their >>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>than >>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>they've >>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>other >>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>social >>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>good >>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>to >>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>makes >>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>> >>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>> >>>>>>>Arielle >>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>> >>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>ronto.ca >>> >>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>> 40visi.com >>> >>> >>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From hjones711 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 06:08:08 2008 From: hjones711 at gmail.com (hannah jones) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:08:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <70131079497845879D37C01C7D1D12EF@Ashley> <001a01c93ec5$248b7b10$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <491289C8.4000607@gmail.com> i was supposed to have large print for everything and extra time. actually getting the large print would have been nice. Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I also had Braille handouts, tests, and textbooks. I got double time for > tests. I wouldn't say there was much I would have changed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were also brailled. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience to yours. >> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and my TVI >> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on tests. >> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially though. >> >> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was asked to >> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other academic >> impact. So my questions. >> 1. What accomodations did you use? >> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been more effective >> > > >> with braille. >> >> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille handouts, >> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >> Thanks >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com > > From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 06:26:15 2008 From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:26:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio References: Message-ID: <028c01c93fd8$928c64d0$f25ea962@Jessica> Excuse my one line post, but- ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Joe that was histerical! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio > Alas, with Ohio down, the race is over. Antonio is one pitcher of choice > richer. People should feel free to join us in Detroit when we take the > debate to the bar. No doubt we'll continue to disagree over how well, or > how bad, the Obama administration is doing by that point, but let there be > no mistake that tonight marks a new page in history. So, for now, here's > to > Obama for turning that page, and to Antonio, for believing. > > Joe Orozco > > "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James > M. > Barrie > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 06:42:00 2008 From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:42:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio References: <4383d01d0811050414q1033d329w95a989659f17cfd2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02b601c93fda$c5eca310$f25ea962@Jessica> Antonio, I did not fully read the debate between you and Joe. I would like to ask one question. Though I have no issue stating that I am a Macaine supporter, I believe that the odds stacked against him were just too difficult to overcome. No republican could win when the country is understandably so disgusted with our current president. I have worked closely with Senator Macaine and trust and respect him immensely. I know you are a democrat, but I wonder if you could answer one question. Much of the Republican party shares my sentiments, but contends that Macaine was the best candidate and went further than any other republican candidate could have. Would you agree? Thinking objectively. I started falling asleep during my own post here, but I think it makes sense. Lol! Jessica C. Kostiw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victory for Antonio > Yep. I was hoping Obama would win anyway. > Beth > > On 11/4/08, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Alas, with Ohio down, the race is over. Antonio is one pitcher of choice >> richer. People should feel free to join us in Detroit when we take the >> debate to the bar. No doubt we'll continue to disagree over how well, or >> how bad, the Obama administration is doing by that point, but let there >> be >> no mistake that tonight marks a new page in history. So, for now, here's >> to >> Obama for turning that page, and to Antonio, for believing. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James >> M. >> Barrie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com From srp at internode.on.net Thu Nov 6 08:32:31 2008 From: srp at internode.on.net (Steve Pattison) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:32:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 10: Freedom Scientific press release Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Media Contact: Brad Davis 800-444-4443 or 727-803-8000 www.FreedomScientific.com Sales: info at FreedomScientific.com Freedom Scientific Releases JAWSR 10 Users Call JAWS TandemT a "Breakthrough" (St. Petersburg, Florida, November 3, 2008) - Freedom Scientific today announced the English release of JAWS version 10, the world's leading screen reader for visually impaired computer users. This new release includes new features that will expand employment, training, and educational opportunities for users at all levels. These new features include AutoForms Mode, JAWS Tandem, and RealSpeakT Direct Solo. "The new AutoForms Mode makes it easier than ever for new users to work with Internet Explorer, FireFox 3, and Acrobat Reader," said Eric Damery, Vice President of Software Product Management. "There is no question that JAWS 10 has taken working with HTML and PDF forms or Web-based applications, especially the new Web 2.0 Accessible Rich Internet Applications (ARIA), to a new level." For more information, try the updated Surf's Up training aid which now includes all the details on AutoForms Mode. "JAWS Tandem provides an accessible remote assistance option for anyone with access to the Internet - including dial up. Technical Support staff, consultants, trainers, dealers, and knowledgeable friends now have a simple and powerful tool to assist JAWS users from a distance. It literally lets our Tech Support team make house calls," added Damery. "Perhaps the most important part of this feature is that friends can now help friends. Whether troubleshooting a problem on their friend's computer, teaching them something about JAWS, or even test-driving some new software with JAWS on their friend's machine before buying, it has already proven to be a huge success." For more information, take a look at the FAQs on JAWS Tandem . The RealSpeak Solo Direct Synthesizer is another new feature in JAWS 10. RealSpeak Solo is much more responsive than the SAPI 5 option in JAWS 8 and 9. Customers will also appreciate the 43 different voices in 19 languages and the convenient on-line location where everyone can sample and download any of the RealSpeak Direct voices for use with JAWS and the upcoming MAGic 11 update. These new voices are even available for use with demonstration licenses of JAWS. To make learning JAWS even easier, free DAISY training material for JAWS and MAGic is now offered via the Check for Updates feature. JAWS 10 now includes 17 DAISY titles which can all be read using the free software DAISY player (FSReader Demo) installed with all versions of JAWS and MAGic. MP3 versions of all the DAISY training material are also available free of charge on the Training Downloads Web pages . Hear All the New JAWS 10 Features Demonstrated in FSCast Listen to Eric Damery, Product Manager for JAWS, and Jonathan Mosen, Vice President of Blindness Hardware Product Management, discuss the latest JAWS 10 enhancements in the August 2008 FSCast and the September 2008 FSCast . The August FSCast covers AutoForms Mode and RealSpeak Solo Direct, and the September FSCast covers JAWS Tandem and the new iTunes 8 support. For more information about JAWS 10, see the What's New page . About Freedom Scientific Freedom Scientific is the world's leading manufacturer of assistive technology products for those who are vision impaired. Freedom is the only company in the industry with a complete line of products for those with visual impairments, and all these products are tested to make sure they work together right out of the box. Freedom sells its products in over 50 countries and over 20 languages. Freedom ScientificR, JAWS for WindowsT and JAWS TandemT are either trademarks or registered trademarks in the United States and/or other countries. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:32:54 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 04:32:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with Braille now. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after school. > It was pretty awesome. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hope Paulos > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, > orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These > were extremely effective. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rania" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were > also brailled. >>Rania, >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>> Hi all, > >>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience > to yours. >>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and > my TVI >>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on > tests. >>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially > though. > >>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was > asked to >>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other > academic >>> impact. So my questions. >>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been > more effective >>> with braille. > >>> 3. What should have been done that was not? > >>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille > handouts, >>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. > >>> Thanks >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma > il04%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:43:15 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 04:43:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' magazine, but it's an excellent article. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is > extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught from > day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder if > anyone else has any thoughts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >> Joseph said. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>> Hope, >>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>> technique >>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >>> too >>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>> word >>> "No" and "Stop That". >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> Yolanda >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>> what >>>> the nfb centers do. >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>> nails. I >>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>> God >>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>> eyes, >>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>> me. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>> still struggle >>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>> people. >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>> have to >>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>> bunch of >>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>> out of >>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>> age, or >>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>> much of my >>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>> behavior is >>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>situations. >>>> >>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>> >>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>> >>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>> >>>>>>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>> 40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:44:09 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 04:44:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:47:45 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 04:47:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> Here's what you can do: 1. Talk to someone you know who is a computer programmer who might know about this technology. For one, when the technology is installed, please make sure that ALL instructions on the CD ROM the screen reader comes with are followed. 2. Try the installed program out yourself and make sure you're not receiving error messages. Yes, colleges are responsible for providing access technology on campus. FSUhas several places where you can access JAWS. They have an ADA room in the library across the street from my dorm and then in the SDRC/Disability Office. Hope this helps. Beth On 11/6/08, Elizabeth wrote: > > Hello, > > It has been a while since I posted a message on here, but I welcome your > ideas and opinions on a situation I have encountered while using computers > on campus. I may be wrong here, but I have always thought that if a college > provided services such as access to computers on campus to sighted students, > then they should provide this same service to blind students as well. I have > tried searching for what the college or disabilities office should be > responsible for in terms of providing technology on campus, but so far I > have not been able to find anything on this subject. > > Currently the community college I am attending is attempting to provide > access to accessible technology on campus such as screen readers, scanning > software, and Braille translation. However, the college is failing miserably > at installing these programs correctly on the computer and keeping them up > to date. They said they would have everything up and running before the > beginning of the semester, but I am still having problems using computers on > campus. > > I am not quite sure how to go about solving this problem. Is the college and > the disabilities office responsible for providing accessible computers on > campus for blind students? And if so, what can I do to ensure that my > college or disabilities office installs accessible technology properly so > that I can actually use a computer on campus without receiving error > messages on technology that is not installed properly? > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious > email. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 12:01:51 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:01:51 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95271B0E-74A2-4EA9-BB15-A5C1979A2A28@gmail.com> Hi Priscilla, I encourage you to read the thread about the Facebook group, as I and others have explained visual captchas there. Here's what I have previously said: "The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues!" -Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:47 PM, priscilla wrote: Hey listers, I am posting because I am rather annoyed I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to use the visual verification codes for security reasons. Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can answer instead? I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's help because of the annoying verification image. the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to those of us who are visually impaired. this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also agree with me on that matter. anyway, I updated my live journal go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com Thank you very much. Priscilla _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 12:11:03 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:11:03 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A8045D6-475D-4E58-BB74-ABBC4E385E4E@gmail.com> I'll try to explain this as well as Jim Marks did for me two and a half years ago -- he is the man I credit with changing my view about the term "blind." We were at National Convention in Dallas, sitting in General Session. He said, "Corbb, there are probably about 3,000 people in this room. If we assume that these people represent all blind people, that is all people considered to fit into the legal definition of blindness, then only about 3% of these folks see nothing. The other 97% see something -- whether that is light perception, what they see is blurry, they have a field restriction, etc. So really, if 97% of those considered legally blind are blind, it seems easier to just use the word blind as an adjective...to just treat blindness as a minor inconvenience in life, but not something great or something that defines us." For me, that explanation changed my view. For somebody reading this who considers himself or herself visually-impaired, low vision, or whatever term with which you are comfortable, that explanation might not change your mind. I encourage you to keep asking questions. I appreciate the dialogue that we as an organization have about our organization's mission, goals, and philosophy, for it means that our organization is malleable, that is it can change as the times and circumstances around us change. Hope that helps, Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 6, 2008, at 12:37 AM, Harry Hogue wrote: I am confused. If someone could please explain this to me, I would appreciate it. I am totally blind, so I am not in denial of blidness, but to me there is a significant difference in having 20/200 vision and having no vision at all. Your vision is then impaired, not completely gone; you do use alternative techniques, but are those not alternative techniques for someone with only partial visio nrather than complete blindness? I'm not trying to irritate anyone; I truly do not know why the NFB is so adament about saying people are blind. Thanks! Harry --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Janice wrote: From: Janice Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:33 PM Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this group is for you too! Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness group of facebook! ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? Thoughtfully yours, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Karen and all, > The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. > Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy > of the > federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a > negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their > blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > them. I > didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt > ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance > of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through > differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > models, > and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is > simply > a > characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > promote NFB > activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. > > Yours, > Terri Rupp, President > National Association of Blind Students > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 12:13:42 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:13:42 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <001b01c93fb1$6639b8f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com><01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> <001b01c93fb1$6639b8f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <22FBA789-58BF-44AD-8705-280A51D3A965@gmail.com> You mention that "[such tools] exist." What other tools have you seen that prohibit spam-bots, yet still allow all access to websites? ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Corb and listers, The spam argument is no excuse to deny individuals access to online Web and other applications. Perhaps all would be served by another method of verification. They exist and should be used to enable all individuals to access Web services. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Peter, I empathize with your situation. Let me play devil's advocate here. The sounds in audio captchas are distorted to stop spammers from using speech-to-text conversion, and the distorted characters in the visual captchas is to stop spammers from using OCR converters, like Kurzweil uses. I have been thinking on this for awhile, and I don't see a solution (pardon the pun) that still offers the webmaster a spam-free system. As I said, I empathize with the deaf-blind who cannot use the audio captchas, and I completely understand--as I am blind too--the trouble the blind have with visual captchas. Any techies out there that might know of a potential solution, I'm all ears! Actually -- I do know that Google uses a system where they send an SMS text message to confirm that you aren't a spammer, and I wonder how well that works since a spammer could setup a cell phone relay to thwart the system. Hmmmm! The debate continues! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: Hello Sydney and listers, I really don't care! If you're deaf-blind you can't use the audio captcha. These mechanisms need to be designed so they can be read tactually and audibly and the audio needs to be of a high-quality to enable those with hearing issues to understand it. I've heard remedies of replacing character codes with every day sounds, but again if you're deaf-blind you can't access this verification. Please see my previous message for a possible solution for affiliates wishing to use social networks and other sites requiring verification of one kind or another. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! Hello there. Just a quick note on the audio quality of the verifications: the sound is distorted on purpose in the same way that the code is hidden in an image. Hence, the quality isn't terrible; the strange echos, backwards sounds in the background, etc. are there on purpose, all for the sake of making sure we're human beings, not spambots. :) Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/4/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > Why are we using outfits like Facebook if we're apposed to the > use of > visual verification?The audio quality is terrible, and deaf-blind > youth > can > forget about this blog. Our own content management system should > have been > used to host this blog instead. What a shame! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carranza, Rosy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! > > > Hi Everybody, > Please help me get the word out to high school students about our new > Facebook group-- here is a description of the group: > > Attention blind and visually impaired high school students! > > Blindness 4 1 1 was created by the National Federation of the Blind to > give you a place to meet other teens with vision loss and to give > you a > chance to learn about resources that can help you in school, at home > and > in your community. > > The NFB is the largest blindness organization in the United States. We > have over 50,000 members who work hard to make a difference in the > lives > of blind people. We are excited to provide this resource to you and > hope > that you will tell your friends about us! > > If you are currently a Facebook member, go to groups, search for the > group using our group name and request access to our group. If you are > not signed up for Facebook then join in on the fun! Visit > www.facebook.com to get connected with our NFB teen group. > > If you have any questions, call Rosy Carranza at 410 659-9314, ext. > 2283 > or email her at rcarranza at nfb.org. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 12:17:44 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:17:44 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> It's my hunch that Elizabeth would be hard-pressed to convince her university to give her administrative rights to the on-campus computers. What I'd recommend, Elizabeth, is whomever you talk to, get their name and the name of their boss or supervisor. Just keep working your way up the chain of both the DSS office and the computer services office. You'll get it working. Just remember, these people most likely legitimately want to help you, but there's something getting in the way. Keep in mind that the computer services folks aren't familiar with access technology products, and that--most likely--the DSS folks aren't familiar with the technical mumbo jumbo of the on-campus networks. Maybe schedule a meeting with the directors of both offices (simultaneously) and see what putting the two of them in the same room does! Best of luck, Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 6, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Beth wrote: Here's what you can do: 1. Talk to someone you know who is a computer programmer who might know about this technology. For one, when the technology is installed, please make sure that ALL instructions on the CD ROM the screen reader comes with are followed. 2. Try the installed program out yourself and make sure you're not receiving error messages. Yes, colleges are responsible for providing access technology on campus. FSUhas several places where you can access JAWS. They have an ADA room in the library across the street from my dorm and then in the SDRC/Disability Office. Hope this helps. Beth On 11/6/08, Elizabeth wrote: > > Hello, > > It has been a while since I posted a message on here, but I welcome > your > ideas and opinions on a situation I have encountered while using > computers > on campus. I may be wrong here, but I have always thought that if a > college > provided services such as access to computers on campus to sighted > students, > then they should provide this same service to blind students as > well. I have > tried searching for what the college or disabilities office should be > responsible for in terms of providing technology on campus, but so > far I > have not been able to find anything on this subject. > > Currently the community college I am attending is attempting to > provide > access to accessible technology on campus such as screen readers, > scanning > software, and Braille translation. However, the college is failing > miserably > at installing these programs correctly on the computer and keeping > them up > to date. They said they would have everything up and running before > the > beginning of the semester, but I am still having problems using > computers on > campus. > > I am not quite sure how to go about solving this problem. Is the > college and > the disabilities office responsible for providing accessible > computers on > campus for blind students? And if so, what can I do to ensure that my > college or disabilities office installs accessible technology > properly so > that I can actually use a computer on campus without receiving error > messages on technology that is not installed properly? > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious > email. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 13:22:53 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:22:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training centers. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 13:44:47 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] special message and prayers for help Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060544k515fbc14k8c0e162a3414f6ad@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone. THis is Beth. I would like to tell you guys that there is something pretty urgent that one of my friends told me about. A woman in Arizona is requesting money for cancer treatments. Andrea Mustin is a Native American on a reservation in Arizona, and she is in dire need of money for cancer treatments. She lost all her health benefits when she lost her job. For more information go to this link. http://www.geocities.com/amustain1/ Beth From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 13:54:34 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandiah Damstra) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:54:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the dominate medium instead of large print? On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Franandiah, > This is a crying shame. > What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same > area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what you > need. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandiah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>> >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>> >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>> >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:00:01 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandiah Damstra) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:00:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have the same problem at my school. One thing about screen readers is that they are really hard to get and extremely expensive. Usually, what I do now when I use someone elses computer is use a free online screen reader. Just go to www.satogo.com and you can use System Access straight from the Internet. I would also suggest talking to your head of disabilities person to help you out. On 11/6/08, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > It's my hunch that Elizabeth would be hard-pressed to convince her > university to give her administrative rights to the on-campus > computers. What I'd recommend, Elizabeth, is whomever you talk to, get > their name and the name of their boss or supervisor. Just keep working > your way up the chain of both the DSS office and the computer services > office. You'll get it working. Just remember, these people most likely > legitimately want to help you, but there's something getting in the > way. Keep in mind that the computer services folks aren't familiar > with access technology products, and that--most likely--the DSS folks > aren't familiar with the technical mumbo jumbo of the on-campus > networks. Maybe schedule a meeting with the directors of both offices > (simultaneously) and see what putting the two of them in the same room > does! > > Best of luck, > Corbb > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > On Nov 6, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Beth wrote: > > Here's what you can do: > 1. Talk to someone you know who is a computer programmer who might > know about this technology. For one, when the technology is > installed, please make sure that ALL instructions on the CD ROM the > screen reader comes with are followed. > 2. Try the installed program out yourself and make sure you're not > receiving error messages. > Yes, colleges are responsible for providing access technology on > campus. FSUhas several places where you can access JAWS. They have > an ADA room in the library across the street from my dorm and then in > the SDRC/Disability Office. Hope this helps. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> It has been a while since I posted a message on here, but I welcome >> your >> ideas and opinions on a situation I have encountered while using >> computers >> on campus. I may be wrong here, but I have always thought that if a >> college >> provided services such as access to computers on campus to sighted >> students, >> then they should provide this same service to blind students as >> well. I have >> tried searching for what the college or disabilities office should be >> responsible for in terms of providing technology on campus, but so >> far I >> have not been able to find anything on this subject. >> >> Currently the community college I am attending is attempting to >> provide >> access to accessible technology on campus such as screen readers, >> scanning >> software, and Braille translation. However, the college is failing >> miserably >> at installing these programs correctly on the computer and keeping >> them up >> to date. They said they would have everything up and running before >> the >> beginning of the semester, but I am still having problems using >> computers on >> campus. >> >> I am not quite sure how to go about solving this problem. Is the >> college and >> the disabilities office responsible for providing accessible >> computers on >> campus for blind students? And if so, what can I do to ensure that my >> college or disabilities office installs accessible technology >> properly so >> that I can actually use a computer on campus without receiving error >> messages on technology that is not installed properly? >> >> Elizabeth >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious >> email. >> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:08:39 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:08:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT bad... On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: > I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can > read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol > Beth > > On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >> read braille music? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >> >>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >> music. It >>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >> stuff, >>>eh? >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> Yeah, >>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >> just carry >>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >> blindness and "how >>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >> >>>> Dezman >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:13:02 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:13:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich to braille though. On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: > I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had > enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with > Braille now. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after school. >> It was pretty awesome. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Hope Paulos >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >> were extremely effective. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rania" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >> also brailled. >>>Rania, >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >> to yours. >>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >> my TVI >>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >> tests. >>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >> though. >> >>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >> asked to >>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >> academic >>>> impact. So my questions. >>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >> more effective >>>> with braille. >> >>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >> handouts, >>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >> il04%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:14:32 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:14:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Man, my parents were SO strict on table maners it was crazy. I'm constantly being yelled at for very small things. It is almost like sometimes it is overboard. lol I know it is for the best, but sometimes it can get very anoying. On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: > Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as > far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their > children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' > magazine, but it's an excellent article. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is >> extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught >> from >> day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder >> if >> anyone else has any thoughts. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Dezman Jackson >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >>> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >>> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >>> Joseph said. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>> Hope, >>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>>> technique >>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >>>> too >>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>>> word >>>> "No" and "Stop That". >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> Yolanda >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>>> what >>>>> the nfb centers do. >>>>> >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>>> nails. I >>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>>> God >>>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>>> eyes, >>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>>> me. >>>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>>> still struggle >>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>> people. >>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>>> have to >>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>>> bunch of >>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>>> out of >>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>>> age, or >>>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>>> much of my >>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>>> behavior is >>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>situations. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>>>>>>Arielle >>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>>> 40visi.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Thu Nov 6 14:34:02 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:34:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote><012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: <009f01c9401c$b794e420$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Hello Franandiah, There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the preferred method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one should use braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and the like. Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend of mine had 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is very low vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her not using braille. You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. The simple fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day from straining to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, and no peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using braille. It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide you a service you need to continue your education. don't let it happen. I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB President in your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian school is necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving services, you should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing you with the right to read. The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they will do what it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that happen. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandiah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian > school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of > church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of > vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the > dominate medium instead of large print? > > On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Franandiah, >> This is a crying shame. >> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same >> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what >> you >> need. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>> luckier than you know. >>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>> extra time on tests... >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>> also brailled. >>>>>Rania, >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>> to yours. >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>> my TVI >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>> tests. >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>> though. >>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>> asked to >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>> academic >>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>> more effective >>>>>> with braille. >>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>> handouts, >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From cowboy0210 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:41:38 2008 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com (Kevin Ledford) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:41:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5487baf30811060641l9c734faw81a010f3cc065fa0@mail.gmail.com> Not that it really matters anymore but I did vote. I was unsuccessful in using the so called accessible machine so it was difficult to see the print but at least I did vote. From hope.paulos at maine.edu Thu Nov 6 15:10:41 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:10:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <20081106151000.UQXB20511.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> As far as El Salvador is concerned, it's not that people are ignorant, it's the cultural contexts we need to take into consideration. There aren't that many blind people I don't believe in El Salvador, and many people haven't been around many blind people. I don't get offended easily when I'm asked those questions, I just explain that I can do anything sighted people can do, well, except for drive. I've evendone that once in my life. Smile. You're right, though, it's just a matter of educating the public about what we can do! Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:08:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >bad... >On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >> Beth >> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>> read braille music? >>> Hope and Beignet >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>> music. It >>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>> stuff, >>>>eh? >>>>Beth >>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>> Yeah, >>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>> just carry >>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>> blindness and "how >>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>>> Dezman >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Thu Nov 6 15:21:48 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:21:48 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <20081106152126.CLGR3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Seems like most people out there don't know much about blindness, so we as a community just have to teach them. Sometimes we just have to except the comments they make and I find they can and WILL learn from us when we teach them or tell them how blind people can do just as well as what sighted people can except that we use different method and techildrenmques. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:08:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >bad... >On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >> Beth >> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>> read braille music? >>> Hope and Beignet >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>> music. It >>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>> stuff, >>>>eh? >>>>Beth >>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>> Yeah, >>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>> just carry >>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>> blindness and "how >>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>>> Dezman >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 16:17:38 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:17:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? Message-ID: <3A768C9AA516424D859F7C2113B284B0@davee984e49f02> Now this is kind of interesting... What do you all think? A T & T Survey Examines Evolution of the Love Note, Role of Texting in Dating and Relationships Sending Love Missives, Flirting and Being Rescued From Bad Dates Are Some of the Most Popular Uses of Text Messaging Dallas, Texas, October 8, 2008 Call it LUV? A T & T Inc. (NYSE:T) has announced the results of the company's recently commissioned survey among text-messaging adults ages 18-55 to gain more insight into how text messaging is being used in the modern dating scene. According to the survey, 40 percent of texters who are in a relationship or dating believe that text messaging plays a significant or very significant role in their relationships. "People have discovered that there are moments when just the right text, sent at just the right time, can go a long way to keeping romance alive," said Alecia Bridgwater, director of Messaging for A T & T's wireless unit. "We wanted to understand more deeply how our customers were using text messaging in this way, and our study turned up some interesting insights." Dee Casey, a 26-year-old A T & T customer from San Antonio, said: "I spend a ton of time texting every day. I think it's much easier to flirt via text message than in person because you have a moment to think of a cute, flirty, creative response without being embarrassed about what the other person will think." Whether you're a teenager experiencing your first crush or a baby boomer re-entering the dating scene after a long hiatus, dating can be a daunting affair at any age. For many, text messaging provides an easier approach to making - and keeping - a love connection. Love Taps The love note has evolved from "roses are red" references scrawled on stationery to fast and flirty text messages. A T & T's dating survey revealed more and more couples are tapping out sweet nothings on their cell phones whenever the mood strikes. According to the survey: Sixty-eight percent of texters surveyed admitted to sending a love note via text messaging. Sixty-seven percent have used text messaging to flirt. Fifty-two percent said "thinking of you" is the most common text message received from a date or spouse. Twenty-eight percent indicated that they text at least three times a day with a significant other or spouse. Love at First Text Exchanging text messages before a first date can help put everyone at ease. Texting also allows you to be more clever and thoughtful in what you say. Thirty-four percent of texters in a relationship or dating agreed they would be more comfortable on a first date if they received a text message beforehand. Twenty-six percent agreed that someone would be more likely to accept a first date with them if they have exchanged text messages first. Fifty-eight percent admitted they have at least occasionally shown a friend a text message from a suitor to get his or her interpretation. Thirty-eight percent admitted that their wireless phone has saved them from an uncomfortable dating situation. Love Hurts Texting for love isn't without its challenges. One of the great things about texting during a new relationship is the time it allows you to collect your thoughts and your courage before initiating communication. On the flip side, it also could possibly create uncertainty and frustration if the recipient of the message waits too long to respond. Eighty-four percent of those surveyed believe that text messages can sometimes be misunderstood by a date or suitor. Twenty-four percent said the biggest turnoff when texting with a date or a spouse is a slow response. Eighty-two percent, however, said they answer a text message immediately or as quickly as possible. One-third of texters who are in a relationship or dating indicated they would get upset if a date/spouse responded to a wireless call while on a date, although 44 percent admitted to answering their wireless phone while on a date. Love Through the Ages It's not easy getting back in the love game after sitting on the sidelines for a while. There are many adults who find themselves single again and are quickly learning that the rules of engagement, as well as the tools of engagement, have changed over the years. Sending text messages to flirt, make romantic plans and, in some extreme cases, to break up is completely alien to many of a certain age. So just how does age factor into adults' views of texting and dating? Thirty-seven percent of respondents who are 18-35 said they text at least three times a day with their significant other compared with 22 percent of those who are 36-55. Seventy-four percent of respondents who are 18-35 have flirted via text messaging compared with 60 percent of those who are 36-55. Twenty-six percent of respondents ages 18-35 admitted to texting more than one person at a time to invite them on a date or for other romantic reasons, but only 7 percent of those who are 36-55 have done the same. Thirty percent of respondents ages 18-35 have texted friends and family to update them on a blind date compared with 19 percent of respondents who are 36-55. A T & T offers a variety of messaging plans that fit your unique wireless needs. Two unlimited plans, Messaging Unlimited and Messaging Unlimited for Families, give you the freedom to send as many messages as you want - text, instant messages, picture and video - for one low monthly price. For more information, visit www.att.com/textmessaging. Survey Methodology A T & T's 2008 text dating survey was conducted by Synovate via an online consumer opinion panel of 1,000 adults ages 18-55 in May 2008. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:21:10 2008 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:21:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:23:22 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:23:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <009f01c9401c$b794e420$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> <009f01c9401c$b794e420$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060823s30ff9166q4c4b79e9e41b41c2@mail.gmail.com> I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. Beth On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello Franandiah, > > There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the preferred > method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one should use > braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and the like. > > Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend of mine had > 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is very low > vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her not using > braille. > > You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. The simple > fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day from straining > to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, and no > peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using braille. > > It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide you a > service you need to continue your education. don't let it happen. > > I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB President in > your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. > > I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian school is > necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving services, you > should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing you with the > right to read. > > The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they will do what > it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that happen. > > Sincerely, > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandiah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of >> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of >> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the >> dominate medium instead of large print? >> >> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> Franandiah, >>> This is a crying shame. >>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same >>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what >>> you >>> need. >>> >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>> luckier than you know. >>>> >>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:25:28 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060825v57e62337t272a43ce9994ef93@mail.gmail.com> My parents went overboard when they kept criticizing my eating habits. Like, for example, I will eat meat in the left hand holding a fork in the left hand. Wait a second. Let me state that clearly: I eat with the fork in the left hand when cutting something like steak and cicken. That's European. But in America, we eat like switch-hitters. But I'm not a big fan of switch-hitting. Beth On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Man, my parents were SO strict on table maners it was crazy. I'm > constantly being yelled at for very small things. It is almost like > sometimes it is overboard. lol I know it is for the best, but > sometimes it can get very anoying. > > On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >> Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as >> far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their >> children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' >> magazine, but it's an excellent article. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is >>> extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught >>> from >>> day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder >>> if >>> anyone else has any thoughts. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Dezman Jackson >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at >>> Wal-Mart. >>> >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >>>> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >>>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >>>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >>>> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >>>> Joseph said. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>>> Hope, >>>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>>>> technique >>>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word >>>>> wasn't >>>>> too >>>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>>>> word >>>>> "No" and "Stop That". >>>>> >>>>> Warmest Regards, >>>>> Yolanda >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have >>>>>> a >>>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the >>>>>> person >>>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>>>> what >>>>>> the nfb centers do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>>>> nails. I >>>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>>>> God >>>>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>>>> eyes, >>>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>>>> me. >>>>>>>Beth >>>>>> >>>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>>>> still struggle >>>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>>>> bunch of >>>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>>>> out of >>>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>>>> age, or >>>>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>>>> much of my >>>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>>>> behavior is >>>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>>situations. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>>>> 40visi.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:29:03 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:29:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. Beth On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone > always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on > tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich > to braille though. > > On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >> Braille now. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>> school. >>> It was pretty awesome. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Hope Paulos >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>> were extremely effective. >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>> >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>> >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>> >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:30:38 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:30:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060830g31a3ca2cvad1c33efd71c11cc@mail.gmail.com> I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near places like El Salvador and stuff. Beth On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do > that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that > people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I > mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and > they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest > comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you > find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by > the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think > I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and > you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people > didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT > bad... > > On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >> Beth >> >> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>> read braille music? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>> >>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>> music. It >>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>> stuff, >>>>eh? >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>> Yeah, >>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>> just carry >>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>> blindness and "how >>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>> >>>>> Dezman >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:31:52 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:31:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811060831m3dfd5d17i19a7b1fe41937ac5@mail.gmail.com> May I point out that I see NO TRAYS at FSU. We don't do that tray thing, but I could most certainly do that thing with the tray at some other plac. Beth On 11/6/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the > glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to > slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. > I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long > and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training > centers. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > > You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I > am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Albert, >> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and > enjoy >> >> it. >> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >> to some and get something out of it. She said >> >> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such." >> >> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that > is >> what you want to do. >> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a > play >> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food > court. >> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening > then. >> >> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or > anyone >> >> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to > go >> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy > and >> >> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Albert Yoo" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>> >>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or > ice >> >>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>> you were alone. Albert >>> >>> >>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless > at >> >>>> a >>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>> if >>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going > to >>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>> should >>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a > recent >>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>> golf! >>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>> in >>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>> to >>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>> (like >>>>>> one >>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>> lol--and >>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>> Spanish >>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>> these >>>>>> feelings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>> thing, >>>>>> not >>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>> else >>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>> sports >>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>> that >>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>> say--but >>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>> is >>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>> way >>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> to >>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>> adapted >>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>> I >>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration > and >>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>> and >>>>>> this >>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>> found >>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on > this. >> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>> people >>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>> because >>>>>> I >>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade > school >>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often >>>>>> that >>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel > it >>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>> listen to >>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>> you >>>>>> walk >>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>> skill >>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>> days >>>>>> I >>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't >>>>>> have >>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>> just too >>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >> .com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>> >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From liz.bottner at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:41:19 2008 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:41:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind and Visually Impaired Teen Group on Facebook! In-Reply-To: <001b01c93fb1$6639b8f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B2FC8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><006001c93eb4$8cbfb860$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><922c02e40811050000k1660dda5veb5f4c138b9760bc@mail.gmail.com><01d001c93f91$184df5e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1DDBDF76-330F-4362-9F88-95EC979C124C@gmail.com> <001b01c93fb1$6639b8f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <49131db9.1ac1f10a.7070.5e5e@mx.google.com> Hi all, I signed up with Facebook before the captcha was implemented, but I've heard from others that they've emailed Facebook about the captcha not being accessible, and Facebook, on their end, has fixed their account. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 17:28:51 2008 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:28:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Voting In-Reply-To: <5487baf30811060641l9c734faw81a010f3cc065fa0@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c93ed5$c830d750$0200a8c0@donna> <4383d01d0811041720jfde3cc6t28b801a431358459@mail.gmail.com> <5487baf30811060641l9c734faw81a010f3cc065fa0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491328e0.05b6420a.1b21.4277@mx.google.com> I voted using the accessible machine, too, and my experience was overall a positive one. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com From hjones711 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 17:37:53 2008 From: hjones711 at gmail.com (hannah jones) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:37:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060831m3dfd5d17i19a7b1fe41937ac5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811060831m3dfd5d17i19a7b1fe41937ac5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49132B71.3050403@gmail.com> they do teach trays at training centers. What they say is to hold it like you said with thumb and pointer around cup, rest of fingers under tray. Beth wrote: > May I point out that I see NO TRAYS at FSU. We don't do that tray > thing, but I could most certainly do that thing with the tray at some > other plac. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > >> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to >> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. >> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long >> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >> centers. >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >> >> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> >>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> >> Behalf >> >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Albert, >>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>> >> enjoy >> >>> it. >>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>> >>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such." >>>> >>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that >>> >> is >> >>> what you want to do. >>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>> >> play >> >>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>> >> court. >> >>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>> >> then. >> >>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>> >> anyone >> >>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to >>> >> go >> >>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy >>> >> and >> >>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>>> >> ice >> >>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>>> you were alone. Albert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> Beth, >>>>> >>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless >>>>> >> at >> >>>>> a >>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>>> if >>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going >>>>> >> to >> >>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>> should >>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>>>> >> recent >> >>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>>> ask >>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>> (like >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>> else >>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>>> sports >>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> found >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>>>>> >> this. >> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>>>>> >> school >> >>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>>>>> >> often >> >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel >>>>>>>> >> it >> >>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> skill >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>>>>> >> don't >> >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> just too >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> >>> n.net >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> >>> ail.com >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> >>> ink.net >>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >> >>> .com >>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>> >>>> >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >> >>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> >>> ink.net >>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com > > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Thu Nov 6 18:35:59 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:35:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? References: <3A768C9AA516424D859F7C2113B284B0@davee984e49f02> Message-ID: <005601c9403e$83d45310$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Well, what do I think? I think AT n T designed a survey to get the results they wanted to hear. That is what I can't help but note right off. At n T is in the communications business, and that includes cell phones, which includes texting. Sure texting is part of modern day communication, but to go so far as saying that flirting is easier by text, rather than in person is very strange, or shows how our society, or American society, avoids human connection, and the human touch. this article, and the A T & T survey does very little for pointing out a social trend, and it's impact in how we live. Maybe it states the obvious. It's like bookshare drafting a survey to research the impact of their service in the lives of the blind reader. Again, stating the obvious, and to me, a marketing tool. Sincerely, Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Wright" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? > Now this is kind of interesting... What do you all think? > > > A T & T Survey Examines Evolution of the Love Note, Role of Texting in > Dating and Relationships > > Sending Love Missives, Flirting and Being Rescued From Bad Dates Are Some > of > the Most Popular Uses of Text Messaging > > Dallas, Texas, October 8, 2008 > > Call it LUV? A T & T Inc. (NYSE:T) has announced the results of the > company's recently commissioned survey among text-messaging adults ages > 18-55 to gain more insight into how text messaging is being used in the > modern dating scene. According to the survey, 40 percent of texters who > are > in a relationship or dating believe that text messaging plays a > significant > or very significant role in their relationships. > > "People have discovered that there are moments when just the right text, > sent at just the right time, can go a long way to keeping romance alive," > said Alecia Bridgwater, director of Messaging for A T & T's wireless unit. > "We wanted to understand more deeply how our customers were using text > messaging in this way, and our study turned up some interesting insights." > > Dee Casey, a 26-year-old A T & T customer from San Antonio, said: "I spend > a > ton of time texting every day. I think it's much easier to flirt via text > message than in person because you have a moment to think of a cute, > flirty, > creative response without being embarrassed about what the other person > will > think." > > Whether you're a teenager experiencing your first crush or a baby boomer > re-entering the dating scene after a long hiatus, dating can be a daunting > affair at any age. For many, text messaging provides an easier approach to > making - and keeping - a love connection. > > Love Taps > > The love note has evolved from "roses are red" references scrawled on > stationery to fast and flirty text messages. A T & T's dating survey > revealed more and more couples are tapping out sweet nothings on their > cell > phones whenever the mood strikes. > > According to the survey: > > Sixty-eight percent of texters surveyed admitted to sending a love note > via > text messaging. > > Sixty-seven percent have used text messaging to flirt. > Fifty-two percent said "thinking of you" is the most common text message > received from a date or spouse. > > Twenty-eight percent indicated that they text at least three times a day > with a significant other or spouse. > Love at First Text > > Exchanging text messages before a first date can help put everyone at > ease. > Texting also allows you to be more clever and thoughtful in what you say. > > Thirty-four percent of texters in a relationship or dating agreed they > would > be more comfortable on a first date if they received a text message > beforehand. > > Twenty-six percent agreed that someone would be more likely to accept a > first date with them if they have exchanged text messages first. > > Fifty-eight percent admitted they have at least occasionally shown a > friend > a text message from a suitor to get his or her interpretation. > > Thirty-eight percent admitted that their wireless phone has saved them > from > an uncomfortable dating situation. > Love Hurts > > Texting for love isn't without its challenges. One of the great things > about > texting during a new relationship is the time it allows you to collect > your > thoughts and your courage before initiating communication. On the flip > side, > it also could possibly create uncertainty and frustration if the recipient > of the message waits too long to respond. > > Eighty-four percent of those surveyed believe that text messages can > sometimes be misunderstood by a date or suitor. > > Twenty-four percent said the biggest turnoff when texting with a date or a > spouse is a slow response. > > Eighty-two percent, however, said they answer a text message immediately > or > as quickly as possible. > > One-third of texters who are in a relationship or dating indicated they > would get upset if a date/spouse responded to a wireless call while on a > date, although 44 percent admitted to answering their wireless phone while > on a date. > > Love Through the Ages > > It's not easy getting back in the love game after sitting on the sidelines > for a while. There are many adults who find themselves single again and > are > quickly learning that the rules of engagement, as well as the tools of > engagement, have changed over the years. Sending text messages to flirt, > make romantic plans and, in some extreme cases, to break up is completely > alien to many of a certain age. > > So just how does age factor into adults' views of texting and dating? > > Thirty-seven percent of respondents who are 18-35 said they text at least > three times a day with their significant other compared with 22 percent of > those who are 36-55. > > Seventy-four percent of respondents who are 18-35 have flirted via text > messaging compared with 60 percent of those who are 36-55. > > Twenty-six percent of respondents ages 18-35 admitted to texting more than > one person at a time to invite them on a date or for other romantic > reasons, > but only 7 percent of those who are 36-55 have done the same. > > Thirty percent of respondents ages 18-35 have texted friends and family to > update them on a blind date compared with 19 percent of respondents who > are > 36-55. > > A T & T offers a variety of messaging plans that fit your unique wireless > needs. Two unlimited plans, Messaging Unlimited and Messaging Unlimited > for > Families, give you the freedom to send as many messages as you want - > text, > instant messages, picture and video - for one low monthly price. For more > information, visit www.att.com/textmessaging. > > Survey Methodology > > A T & T's 2008 text dating survey was conducted by Synovate via an online > consumer opinion panel of 1,000 adults ages 18-55 in May 2008. > > > > Best Regards: > David Wright > > Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu > Mobile: 832-518-0707 > > http://www.knfbreader.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 18:36:11 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:36:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. References: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051854w33504e52lb22d72baadf108c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003101c9403e$8c11da20$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon everyone, To my knowledge there are no such plug-ins for Internet Explorer and other browsers. Now there's an idea for a programming project for someone wanting to take it on and perhaps receive some college credit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] YouTube. Don't we have resolutions about this issue? We had a resolution passed which stated very clearly that we don't like visual verifications, don't like anything that holds deaf/blind people back, and don't like to see it online. Beth On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi. Someone told me that you can get a plug in for fire fox that > will solve the visual captia. > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "priscilla" >To: "nabs-l" >Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 >>Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. > >>Hey listers, >>I am posting because I am rather annoyed > >>I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to > use the visual verification codes for security reasons. >>Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can > answer instead? >>I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's > help because of the annoying verification image. >>the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to > those of us who are visually impaired. >>this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also > agree with me on that matter. > >>anyway, I updated my live journal >>go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com > >>Thank you very much. > >>Priscilla >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 18:43:53 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:43:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <008901c9403f$9e8a4970$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Carrie and listers, The same method works when using a guide dog. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Gilmer" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training centers. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From RCarranza at nfb.org Thu Nov 6 18:57:24 2008 From: RCarranza at nfb.org (Carranza, Rosy) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:57:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <55EAB6D421F649DB917063E463CFEFE8@JJeangPC> References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC><9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> <55EAB6D421F649DB917063E463CFEFE8@JJeangPC> Message-ID: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA754011B3D47@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Hi Everyone, Since I created the Facebook group, I thought I would provide my perspective. The term visually impaired was used intentionally, for the reasons that Terri, Dominique, JJ, BJ and others discussed. In very practical terms--when people search for anything relating to vision loss, we want to be the organization that pops up. The words visually impaired were not used to water-down our long-standing NFB philosophy or to distort our personal definitions about blindness. In fact, possessing a deep awareness of our own philosophy, and understanding the process that people go through in developing their own philosophy are two lenses that can help all of us understand why we use "visually impaired" to market our programs. We need to start with new people where they are, and not where we think they ought to be. We should use our philosophy to guide us in the mentoring of these new faces, and not use our philosophy as a tool of superiority that further separates us from the people that really need our message. I grew up feeling ashamed of my blindness. I never called myself blind and did not associate with any blind groups. When asked about my vision, I called myself either visually impaired or legally blind. Yet, NFB mentors drew me in, and in time, I was ready to internalize a positive attitude about blindness and began using the word blind with no shame. My story is not unique. There are tons of current members that came into the movement calling themselves visually impaired, who now call themselves blind. Also, there are some members who have been around the Federation for a while who still choose to call themselves visually impaired-they are still welcomed in our group and we invite their participation. Nevertheless, as an organization, we advocate for the use of the word blind and work to help people learn that it is respectable to be blind. Bringing people into our organization requires a few key elements: 1. Understanding the prior experiences of the people we want to reach. 2. Making a sincere and committed long-term effort to mentor new people. 3. Gaining the respect and loyalty of the person you are mentoring. Once these things are in place, we will be positioned to help others gain the same empowering philosophy about blindness that we have been discussing in these messages. Not recognizing that philosophy is a constant process, will keep us from bringing in lots of great people. Thanks for listening! Rosy Carranza -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Janice Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Hello Corbb and fellow listers, I might just like philosophical debates and being able to see where my fellow nabs members stand- LOL! I feel it helps my own philosophy also. However, I think I can see where you are coming from... However, I only brought the subject line up as one such example... Not the end all of examples. The subject line example was also stated as a precursor to the idea that the change in terminology, seems to be happening more frequently. For example, even in the production of our own newsletters, etc... I have witnessed the term visually impaired. I cannot come up with specifics on which newsletters and in what format right now but have seen it recent, where as I do not think I have witnessed it before... My sincerest question is, if it is just marketing.... are we marketing to our own also? I am also wondering if this demarks a new trend in the Federation? Are we moving away from being seen as staunch and rigid, as one lister had stated,and now trying to be seen as more inclusive? Under what instances would it be acceptable to use the terms visually impaired, visually challenged, low vision, etc.... What is the methodology one would use to manage these instances of "double speak and double speak"? I am honestly trying to learn to walk that tight rope Mike Freeman had mentioned. In my own internal debates of trying to please both gods, what is the methodology and how are others reconciling this? I would love any more thoughts, since I think it is important for us all to understand how to balance our true philosophy and the use of, "... some meaningless or useless variant thereof..." according to Mr. Omvig's quote. I guess I am just grappling with the issue myself and trying to see if we have some sort of standard, or what others have found helps with my slight disconnect. I ask because I have been working with and mentoring a very young blind individual myself and am wondering about recent comments on tactics. Thanks guys and keep the good ideas and philosophical thoughts rolling. Kindest Regards, Janice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket >marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we >want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading >the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization >before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't >think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to >find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, >students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive >philosophy on blindness. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > > Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > > Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as > nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed > something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. > It > might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually > impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These > people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want > to > identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this > group is for you too! > Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that > we > are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the > visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be > recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > > However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and > if > we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new > individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific > facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the > most > recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention > blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense > according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually > impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology > visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? > > Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to > other > Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject > line > :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the > NABS > list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired > Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness > group of facebook! > ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, > also. I > am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. > Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that > perhaps > trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur > the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind > members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as > solid > , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> > > I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us > debate > this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our > philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what > it > stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? > > Thoughtfully yours, > > Janice > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > To: "NABS list serve" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of >> the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes >> a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >> acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >> simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote >> NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >> (707)-567-3019 >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gma il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.c om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rcarranza%40nfb. org From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:43:12 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:43:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? In-Reply-To: <005601c9403e$83d45310$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <3A768C9AA516424D859F7C2113B284B0@davee984e49f02> <005601c9403e$83d45310$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811061143k4b9e9978r996e089eace78b94@mail.gmail.com> Antonio, People don't realize that the human touch is very important. Flirting and kissing and all that other stuff involved with romance is very important because it can have a better effect on the brain than just texting and texting and ... IM messages perhaps. I can IM "I love you" to someone, but putting my arm around that person and saying the same thing can mean differently because that's what we as social animals need to have. Beth On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Well, what do I think? > > I think AT n T designed a survey to get the results they wanted to hear. > That is what I can't help but note right off. > > At n T is in the communications business, and that includes cell phones, > which includes texting. > > Sure texting is part of modern day communication, but to go so far as saying > that flirting is easier by text, rather than in person is very strange, or > shows how our society, or American society, avoids human connection, and the > human touch. > > this article, and the A T & T survey does very little for pointing out a > social trend, and it's impact in how we live. Maybe it states the obvious. > > It's like bookshare drafting a survey to research the impact of their > service in the lives of the blind reader. Again, stating the obvious, and to > me, a marketing tool. > > Sincerely, > > Antonio > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Wright" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? > > >> Now this is kind of interesting... What do you all think? >> >> >> A T & T Survey Examines Evolution of the Love Note, Role of Texting in >> Dating and Relationships >> >> Sending Love Missives, Flirting and Being Rescued From Bad Dates Are Some >> of >> the Most Popular Uses of Text Messaging >> >> Dallas, Texas, October 8, 2008 >> >> Call it LUV? A T & T Inc. (NYSE:T) has announced the results of the >> company's recently commissioned survey among text-messaging adults ages >> 18-55 to gain more insight into how text messaging is being used in the >> modern dating scene. According to the survey, 40 percent of texters who >> are >> in a relationship or dating believe that text messaging plays a >> significant >> or very significant role in their relationships. >> >> "People have discovered that there are moments when just the right text, >> sent at just the right time, can go a long way to keeping romance alive," >> said Alecia Bridgwater, director of Messaging for A T & T's wireless unit. >> "We wanted to understand more deeply how our customers were using text >> messaging in this way, and our study turned up some interesting insights." >> >> Dee Casey, a 26-year-old A T & T customer from San Antonio, said: "I spend >> >> a >> ton of time texting every day. I think it's much easier to flirt via text >> message than in person because you have a moment to think of a cute, >> flirty, >> creative response without being embarrassed about what the other person >> will >> think." >> >> Whether you're a teenager experiencing your first crush or a baby boomer >> re-entering the dating scene after a long hiatus, dating can be a daunting >> affair at any age. For many, text messaging provides an easier approach to >> making - and keeping - a love connection. >> >> Love Taps >> >> The love note has evolved from "roses are red" references scrawled on >> stationery to fast and flirty text messages. A T & T's dating survey >> revealed more and more couples are tapping out sweet nothings on their >> cell >> phones whenever the mood strikes. >> >> According to the survey: >> >> Sixty-eight percent of texters surveyed admitted to sending a love note >> via >> text messaging. >> >> Sixty-seven percent have used text messaging to flirt. >> Fifty-two percent said "thinking of you" is the most common text message >> received from a date or spouse. >> >> Twenty-eight percent indicated that they text at least three times a day >> with a significant other or spouse. >> Love at First Text >> >> Exchanging text messages before a first date can help put everyone at >> ease. >> Texting also allows you to be more clever and thoughtful in what you say. >> >> Thirty-four percent of texters in a relationship or dating agreed they >> would >> be more comfortable on a first date if they received a text message >> beforehand. >> >> Twenty-six percent agreed that someone would be more likely to accept a >> first date with them if they have exchanged text messages first. >> >> Fifty-eight percent admitted they have at least occasionally shown a >> friend >> a text message from a suitor to get his or her interpretation. >> >> Thirty-eight percent admitted that their wireless phone has saved them >> from >> an uncomfortable dating situation. >> Love Hurts >> >> Texting for love isn't without its challenges. One of the great things >> about >> texting during a new relationship is the time it allows you to collect >> your >> thoughts and your courage before initiating communication. On the flip >> side, >> it also could possibly create uncertainty and frustration if the recipient >> of the message waits too long to respond. >> >> Eighty-four percent of those surveyed believe that text messages can >> sometimes be misunderstood by a date or suitor. >> >> Twenty-four percent said the biggest turnoff when texting with a date or a >> spouse is a slow response. >> >> Eighty-two percent, however, said they answer a text message immediately >> or >> as quickly as possible. >> >> One-third of texters who are in a relationship or dating indicated they >> would get upset if a date/spouse responded to a wireless call while on a >> date, although 44 percent admitted to answering their wireless phone while >> on a date. >> >> Love Through the Ages >> >> It's not easy getting back in the love game after sitting on the sidelines >> for a while. There are many adults who find themselves single again and >> are >> quickly learning that the rules of engagement, as well as the tools of >> engagement, have changed over the years. Sending text messages to flirt, >> make romantic plans and, in some extreme cases, to break up is completely >> alien to many of a certain age. >> >> So just how does age factor into adults' views of texting and dating? >> >> Thirty-seven percent of respondents who are 18-35 said they text at least >> three times a day with their significant other compared with 22 percent of >> those who are 36-55. >> >> Seventy-four percent of respondents who are 18-35 have flirted via text >> messaging compared with 60 percent of those who are 36-55. >> >> Twenty-six percent of respondents ages 18-35 admitted to texting more than >> one person at a time to invite them on a date or for other romantic >> reasons, >> but only 7 percent of those who are 36-55 have done the same. >> >> Thirty percent of respondents ages 18-35 have texted friends and family to >> update them on a blind date compared with 19 percent of respondents who >> are >> 36-55. >> >> A T & T offers a variety of messaging plans that fit your unique wireless >> needs. Two unlimited plans, Messaging Unlimited and Messaging Unlimited >> for >> Families, give you the freedom to send as many messages as you want - >> text, >> instant messages, picture and video - for one low monthly price. For more >> information, visit www.att.com/textmessaging. >> >> Survey Methodology >> >> A T & T's 2008 text dating survey was conducted by Synovate via an online >> consumer opinion panel of 1,000 adults ages 18-55 in May 2008. >> >> >> >> Best Regards: >> David Wright >> >> Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu >> Mobile: 832-518-0707 >> >> http://www.knfbreader.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:44:26 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:44:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <20081106152126.CLGR3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20081106152126.CLGR3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811061144m9498e3av4049180b379407af@mail.gmail.com> You're right. Beth On 11/6/08, hannah wrote: > Seems like most people out there don't know much about blindness, > so we as a community just have to teach them. Sometimes we just > have to except the comments they make and I find they can and > WILL learn from us when we teach them or tell them how blind > people can do just as well as what sighted people can except that > we use different method and techildrenmques. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Franandah Damstra" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:08:39 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction > >>I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do > you do >>that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really > anoying that >>people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. > I >>mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years > ago and >>they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most > stupidest >>comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How > can you >>find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to > scream by >>the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they > think >>I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant > and >>you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know > people >>didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be > THAT >>bad... > >>On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >>> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I > can >>> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >>> Beth > >>> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do > you >>>> read braille music? > >>>> Hope and Beignet > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction > >>>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>>> music. It >>>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>>> stuff, >>>>>eh? >>>>>Beth > >>>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>> Yeah, >>>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>>> just carry >>>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>>> blindness and "how >>>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". > >>>>>> Dezman >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa > natic01%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:45:22 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:45:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <49132B71.3050403@gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <4383d01d0811060831m3dfd5d17i19a7b1fe41937ac5@mail.gmail.com> <49132B71.3050403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811061145j50cdf22aydcc9a92b8d0fd386@mail.gmail.com> Cool. I've done the thing with trays before, and it was great. Beth On 11/6/08, hannah jones wrote: > they do teach trays at training centers. What they say is to hold it > like you said with thumb and pointer around cup, rest of fingers under tray. > > > Beth wrote: >> May I point out that I see NO TRAYS at FSU. We don't do that tray >> thing, but I could most certainly do that thing with the tray at some >> other plac. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >> >>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>> to >>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>> cane. >>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>> long >>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >>> centers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>> >>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> >>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> >>> Behalf >>> >>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Albert, >>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>>> >>> enjoy >>> >>>> it. >>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>>> go >>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>> >>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>> >>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>> blindness >>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that >>>> >>> is >>> >>>> what you want to do. >>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>>> >>> play >>> >>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>> walk >>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>> >>> court. >>> >>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>>> >>> then. >>> >>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>> >>> anyone >>> >>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>> is >>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to >>>> >>> go >>> >>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy >>>> >>> and >>> >>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>>> to >>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>>>> >>> ice >>> >>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless >>>>>> >>> at >>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>> weird >>>>>> if >>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going >>>>>> >>> to >>> >>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>> should >>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered >>>>>> a >>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>>>>> >>> recent >>> >>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>>>>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>>>>>> >>> this. >>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>>>>>> >>> school >>> >>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>>>>>> >>> often >>> >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel >>>>>>>>> >>> it >>> >>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>>>>>> >>> don't >>> >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> >>>> n.net >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>> >>>> ink.net >>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>> >>>> .com >>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>> >>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>> >>>> ink.net >>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> >>>> ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:47:47 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:47:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811061147v215b742dn85fb8e87253c1ac5@mail.gmail.com> What about talking to the supervisor upwards the disability office? Perhaps we have an ADA coordinator to talk to? FSU has excellent ADA people that make sure everything runs smoothly. Beth On 11/6/08, Elizabeth wrote: > > Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in > charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all > the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not > seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I > tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office > that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to > students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I'm > really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the > college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be > installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > See how Windows(R) connects the people, information, and fun that are part of > your life > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From liz.bottner at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 20:26:35 2008 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:26:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Thought Provoker: Love at first text? In-Reply-To: <3A768C9AA516424D859F7C2113B284B0@davee984e49f02> References: <3A768C9AA516424D859F7C2113B284B0@davee984e49f02> Message-ID: <49135291.c6c1f10a.27ce.6e8c@mx.google.com> It's interesting, yet also kind of sad, but hey, whatever works, I guess. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Thu Nov 6 22:29:26 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:29:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com><48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002901c9405f$206ee8a0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Elizabeth, I believe section 508 of the rehabilitation act dictates that publicly funded institutions, like a college that receives financial aid, be responsible for providing equal access. I admit that my knowledge of disability law is lacking somewhat, so others should feel free to correct me, and clarify what I am trying to say. How hard is it for your college staff to understand you need equal access to college computers? I think they understand, but as Corb points out, may not be the best at problem-solving. This is where you come in to let them know about their responsibility to provide you reasonable accommodation. If students are learning to use databases for scholarly research, and they can do this with the convenient help of a librarian, then, you should have access to a computer with jaws in the library. If a writing center provides tutors in matters dealing with writing a paper, you should have access to a computer there. If there is a logical place where scanners and braille embosser are set up, it is obvious you should have computer access with adaptive technology there, too. and, if the college is installing this stuff, and it isn't working, and they have promised you they'd set you up, and have failed, then, it might be time to give them a little push. Keep notes on what is happening when, and let them know that Mr. DSS Office, you said this summer, on June 25 that I'd have jaws installed by the beginning of class. You tech guy promised to smooth the technology difficulties by August 28. Neither of these things has happened. And, I am suffering the consequences as a result. I believe the college should provide reasonable accommodations, and in fact, this is the law, as put forth by the rehabilitation act, section 508. They know all about the law, and by them knowing that you too are aware, they will pick up the pace. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Nov 7 00:08:32 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:08:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: Message-ID: <013701c9406c$f8d5da20$0201a8c0@Serene> Hi Elizabeth Actually, in most states, the Commission for the Blind or it's equivalent is responsible for paying for and providing the accessible software and installing it for you. The school can install it, but it sounds like yours has no clue what they're doing. In my case, the CBVI installed everything on my first computer, but, when that one crashed, my parents installed everything on the new one cause Mom knows computers enough to do it, ok, wihth lots of help over the phone from my computer geneous brother! lol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:06 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus > > Hello, > > It has been a while since I posted a message on here, but I welcome your > ideas and opinions on a situation I have encountered while using computers > on campus. I may be wrong here, but I have always thought that if a > college provided services such as access to computers on campus to sighted > students, then they should provide this same service to blind students as > well. I have tried searching for what the college or disabilities office > should be responsible for in terms of providing technology on campus, but > so far I have not been able to find anything on this subject. > > Currently the community college I am attending is attempting to provide > access to accessible technology on campus such as screen readers, scanning > software, and Braille translation. However, the college is failing > miserably at installing these programs correctly on the computer and > keeping them up to date. They said they would have everything up and > running before the beginning of the semester, but I am still having > problems using computers on campus. > > I am not quite sure how to go about solving this problem. Is the college > and the disabilities office responsible for providing accessible computers > on campus for blind students? And if so, what can I do to ensure that my > college or disabilities office installs accessible technology properly so > that I can actually use a computer on campus without receiving error > messages on technology that is not installed properly? > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious > email. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From thisischris89 at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 01:09:28 2008 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:09:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060830g31a3ca2cvad1c33efd71c11cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of self-imposed ignorance, if you will. I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may bore some of us to tears. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good > outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near > places like El Salvador and stuff. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >> that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >> people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >> mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >> they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >> comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >> find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >> the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >> I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >> you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >> didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >> bad... >> >> On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >>> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >>> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>>> read braille music? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>> >>>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>>> music. It >>>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>>> stuff, >>>>>eh? >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>> Yeah, >>>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>>> just carry >>>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>>> blindness and "how >>>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>> >>>>>> Dezman >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Nov 7 01:42:39 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:42:39 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <20081107014214.KOFD3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I agree and it's true that people who wonder are the ones who are most likely to want to learn... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Kchao" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:09:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't >need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat >everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions >and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with >people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some >knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling >out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not >intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of >self-imposed ignorance, if you will. >I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, >I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, >or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is >this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the >handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I >can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the >sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can >brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite >sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may >bore some of us to tears. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good >> outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near >> places like El Salvador and stuff. >> Beth >> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >>> that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >>> people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >>> mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >>> they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >>> comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >>> find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >>> the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >>> I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >>> you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >>> didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >>> bad... >>> On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >>>> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >>>> Beth >>>> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>>>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>>>> read braille music? >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>>>> music. It >>>>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>>>> stuff, >>>>>>eh? >>>>>>Beth >>>>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>>> Yeah, >>>>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>>>> just carry >>>>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>>>> blindness and "how >>>>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>>>>> Dezman >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischr is89%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 01:46:37 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:46:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote><012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> Message-ID: There is no specific amount of vision loss written in law to state to switch to braille. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandiah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian > school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of > church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of > vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the > dominate medium instead of large print? > > On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Franandiah, >> This is a crying shame. >> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same >> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what >> you >> need. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>> luckier than you know. >>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>> extra time on tests... >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>> also brailled. >>>>>Rania, >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>> to yours. >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>> my TVI >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>> tests. >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>> though. >>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>> asked to >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>> academic >>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>> more effective >>>>>> with braille. >>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>> handouts, >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3591 (20081106) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 7 01:48:03 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:48:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction Message-ID: <20081107014719.LKNR5644.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I could not have said it better, Christopher. Well said! > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Kchao" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:09:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't >need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat >everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions >and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with >people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some >knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling >out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not >intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of >self-imposed ignorance, if you will. >I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, >I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, >or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is >this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the >handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I >can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the >sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can >brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite >sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may >bore some of us to tears. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good >> outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near >> places like El Salvador and stuff. >> Beth >> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >>> that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >>> people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >>> mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >>> they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >>> comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >>> find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >>> the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >>> I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >>> you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >>> didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >>> bad... >>> On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >>>> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >>>> Beth >>>> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>>>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>>>> read braille music? >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>>>> music. It >>>>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>>>> stuff, >>>>>>eh? >>>>>>Beth >>>>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>>> Yeah, >>>>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>>>> just carry >>>>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>>>> blindness and "how >>>>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>>>>> Dezman >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischr is89%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 01:48:57 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:48:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] special message and prayers for help References: <4383d01d0811060544k515fbc14k8c0e162a3414f6ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6E124647E76D4CBBA9F87AF91416D610@Ashley> Beth, This is sad. I'll certainly pray for her. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:44 AM Subject: [nabs-l] special message and prayers for help > Hi everyone. > THis is Beth. > I would like to tell you guys that there is something pretty urgent > that one of my friends told me about. A woman in Arizona is > requesting money for cancer treatments. Andrea Mustin is a Native > American on a reservation in Arizona, and she is in dire need of money > for cancer treatments. She lost all her health benefits when she lost > her job. For more information go to this link. > http://www.geocities.com/amustain1/ > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3591 (20081106) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 02:04:48 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:04:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060830g31a3ca2cvad1c33efd71c11cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811061804o71794656i2e09f956182e69cb@mail.gmail.com> You're right, Chris. You're totally right. Beth On 11/6/08, Christopher Kchao wrote: > I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't > need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat > everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions > and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with > people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some > knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling > out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not > intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of > self-imposed ignorance, if you will. > I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, > I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, > or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is > this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the > handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I > can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the > sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can > brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite > sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may > bore some of us to tears. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction > > >>I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good >> outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near >> places like El Salvador and stuff. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do >>> that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that >>> people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I >>> mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and >>> they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest >>> comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you >>> find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by >>> the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think >>> I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and >>> you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people >>> didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT >>> bad... >>> >>> On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >>>> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>>>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>>>> read braille music? >>>>> >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>>>> >>>>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>>>> music. It >>>>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>>>> stuff, >>>>>>eh? >>>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>>> Yeah, >>>>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>>>> just carry >>>>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>>>> blindness and "how >>>>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>>>> >>>>>>> Dezman >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 02:14:00 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:14:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com><48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76ADFC91E4424D358951921B89F49CE0@Ashley> Hi, Having accessible technology to use computers since this is access is their responsibility if your school is a public university or recieves federal funds. The source is the law. I think the ADA or Section 504 of the Rehab act would apply here. I'd ask a lawyer if I were you. Another idea is call the NFB national office with your question or the American Association of people with disabilities, AAPD and they should have some answers since they advocate for people with disabilities. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3592 (20081106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 02:19:16 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:19:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com><48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> <002901c9405f$206ee8a0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Antonio, Yes the law does grant equal access. But its section 504. Section 508 is regarding accessible software in the government. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Elizabeth, I believe section 508 of the rehabilitation act dictates that publicly funded institutions, like a college that receives financial aid, be responsible for providing equal access. I admit that my knowledge of disability law is lacking somewhat, so others should feel free to correct me, and clarify what I am trying to say. How hard is it for your college staff to understand you need equal access to college computers? I think they understand, but as Corb points out, may not be the best at problem-solving. This is where you come in to let them know about their responsibility to provide you reasonable accommodation. If students are learning to use databases for scholarly research, and they can do this with the convenient help of a librarian, then, you should have access to a computer with jaws in the library. If a writing center provides tutors in matters dealing with writing a paper, you should have access to a computer there. If there is a logical place where scanners and braille embosser are set up, it is obvious you should have computer access with adaptive technology there, too. and, if the college is installing this stuff, and it isn't working, and they have promised you they'd set you up, and have failed, then, it might be time to give them a little push. Keep notes on what is happening when, and let them know that Mr. DSS Office, you said this summer, on June 25 that I'd have jaws installed by the beginning of class. You tech guy promised to smooth the technology difficulties by August 28. Neither of these things has happened. And, I am suffering the consequences as a result. I believe the college should provide reasonable accommodations, and in fact, this is the law, as put forth by the rehabilitation act, section 508. They know all about the law, and by them knowing that you too are aware, they will pick up the pace. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3592 (20081106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ccook01 at knology.net Fri Nov 7 04:41:00 2008 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 23:41:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Masters of Devinity Message-ID: <35F4A3E3EE3E453CA8D19EDED5F5E1E3@TheCooksPC> Hello listers, I am considering obtaining my MDIV degree. I am wondering if any of you have gone to seminary? More specifically I am looking for anyone who has attended Liberty University either on campus or online. Has anyone had to take Greek and Hebrew classes? Thanks for any help. Corey Cook From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 05:13:48 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:13:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out In-Reply-To: <286114.21659.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A8C79BEB2A643B9B40CD0BE2407F5AF@MonkeyPaw> Harry, Forgive the delayed response. I found your post to be quite refreshing but am just now finding sufficient time to give it some thought. Let me give you a glimpse of some of the larger things I want to accomplish before I die. I want to write the horror novel that will put Stephen King's latest nightmares to shame. I want the novel to be later turned into the movie that will make you wish you had Stephen King back. The outdoors are great, but I embrace my privacy and want my own property to be able to ride the score of horses I will one day own. The property should be large enough to share with the children I will take in to protect against violence and neglect. It only makes sense to provide them a home after winning cases that will condemn the perpetrators that would dare spread the strife of modern-day slavery. I only ask that the children are nice to the even larger mass of canines I will pull off the streets and filthy shelters. Maybe the presence of the horses, kids and dogs will create unnecessary noise, or maybe the noise will stop long enough to listen to the music I will compose on the piano I will soon master. After a long day of service to my country I am confident I will be able to get one step closer toward reading all the best classics ever written, and perhaps from their pages I will go to bed thinking there is one more ambition I might do well to conquer. Never mind the number of steps it will take to accomplish just one of these goals. I am too arrogant to allow such words as "hope" and "maybe" to enter my thoughts, let alone my writing, and if I should take a fancy to one day visit the moon, one can only assume that distant rock will be sturdy enough to hold the weight of my expectations. The point is simply this: You are the author of your own destiny. If the results of your career assessment claim you can do any number of things, it may be owed to the fact that you are too grand to be summed up by any flimsy evaluation put together by an academic too ignorant to recognize the lack of borders of the human mind. If you want to teach, then teach. If you want to teach in some remote village in Africa, pack some mosquito nets. I am by no means the brightest Crayon in the box. I shared your fear of the math section in the GRE. Yet I find myself a semester away from a Master's. If I can do it, you can do it better. Life would be absolutely dull were things laid out in an easy pattern. Every two weeks, sometimes every other day, I feel confused about what I am doing today and get restless about jumping ahead to what may be found tomorrow. Some people would call such state of mind pitiful. I call these people jealous, because they lack the number of options necessary to achieve this level of complication. Pick an ambition. Invest your best efforts into it, and if another ambition should catch your will tomorrow, use what you learned from the first ambition to cultivate a passion. Reflectively yours, Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Harry Hogue Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out Hello everyone,   Let me apologize in advance for how long this turned out!  I thought as I wrote and so you're getting my stream of consciousness!  Thanks!   I would like to hear from anyone, either on list or off of it, who has taken the GRE...preferably if your math skills aren't great.  I am looking around at some other graduate schools after deciding that linguistics may not be the best master's, based on a class that I'm taking this semester having to do with the historical development of English.  Most graduate schools either requrie the GRE or the MAT, with the majority prefering the GRE.  I truly do not believe that I have the skills to pass the GRE because of its math section--and although part of it may have to do with vision, a lot of it is just genetic--I simply am not good at math (neither is my brother who is fully sighted).  Thoughts, though, on succeeding with it, if I have to take it, are appreciated.   I would also welcoem any strategies for finding schools that accept the MAT.  Oh and for a master's degree, I still want to be a college professor but am looking aroun at my options--I have actually thought about doing TEFL/TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) overseas...I'm really a bit intimidated.  I know what I want; I think I would really like the idea of teaching overseas for a year or two and being a professor (in whatever order those happen to arrive); I've even thought about going for a master's overseas--is that a crazy idea?   I am at this point where I am very confused and don't feel like I have a whole lot of time.  I took a career assessment, and as I suspected, it said that my responses didn't show a clear pattern, meaning I have a lot of options and basically could do anything.   So this post isn't really about the GRE, or graduate school, or teaching, or any of it.  I suppose it's more about me trying to make sense out of the confusion; I'm hoping for the things I want, wishing desperately for them to be possible, but still having the doubt that I could be comfortable going overseas and teaching (how could I, given that every time I move I have tention in my body from the cane)?  I say it is from the cane, because while walking down the hall, when no one else was around, I stopped using the cane and just held it vertical, and noticed that my tention immediately eased.  I was much more comfortable and I had no anxiety at all.  The constant noise of the cane on the concrete/tapping against doors/etc grates on me, and I am just now figuring this out.  Has anyone else experienced this?   Thanks, if you've made it this far.  I didn't intend for this to turn into a book.   Thanks,   Harry Hogue   _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:35:12 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:35:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811050714q7b22d9d4i3d25bda13a7d3fb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <097b01c93ef0$9ce3fcb0$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811050714q7b22d9d4i3d25bda13a7d3fb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you kidding? And this was even before blindness came out ... ridiculous. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:15 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my music. It sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting stuff, eh? Beth On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Yeah, > One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't just carry > on normal conversations with you with talking about the blindness and "how > amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". > > Dezman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:43:14 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:43:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I know this wasn't directed to me, but I read Braille music too. I used in choir and orchestra (I play the violin) all through elementary/high school, and I use it for piano occasionally but usually learn by ear for that. Music is a lot of memorization though for the violin especially so the quality of playing (at least for me) suffers. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you read braille music? Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my music. It >sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting stuff, >eh? >Beth >On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Yeah, >> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't just carry >> on normal conversations with you with talking about the blindness and "how >> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >> Dezman >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:45:28 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:45:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <20081106021944.DSXA24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081106021944.DSXA24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Hi! I'm not a part of NFB (most unfortunately) but NABS is absolutely fantastic. Welcome - I hope you enjoy out many discussions. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Hi there! I too wanted to welcome you to the list. Have you spoken to your local Nfb chapter about your schooling issues? If not, you should do so because perhaps they will be able to help you get more accommodations. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >Hello, Franandaya. Welcome to the list. Feel fre to introduce >yourself any time. >Beth >On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:50:48 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:50:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yeah... it's a precarious system I wouldn't recommend for long distances - usually someone rescues me anyway. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:51:32 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:51:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: is it meant for all kids or visually impaired ones? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' magazine, but it's an excellent article. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is > extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught from > day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder if > anyone else has any thoughts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > >> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >> Joseph said. >> Beth >> >> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>> Hope, >>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>> technique >>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >>> too >>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>> word >>> "No" and "Stop That". >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> Yolanda >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>> what >>>> the nfb centers do. >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>> nails. I >>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>> God >>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>> eyes, >>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>> me. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>> still struggle >>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>> people. >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>> have to >>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>> bunch of >>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>> out of >>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>> age, or >>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>> much of my >>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>> behavior is >>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>situations. >>>> >>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>> >>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>> >>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>> >>>>>>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>> 40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:53:30 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:53:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Oh thank you! I'll try that out. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:23 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training centers. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 05:55:21 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:55:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I know what you mean. It can be a bit traumatic at times, but honestly it can only benefit you. 100%. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Franandah Damstra Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:15 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette Man, my parents were SO strict on table maners it was crazy. I'm constantly being yelled at for very small things. It is almost like sometimes it is overboard. lol I know it is for the best, but sometimes it can get very anoying. On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: > Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as > far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their > children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' > magazine, but it's an excellent article. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is >> extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught >> from >> day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder >> if >> anyone else has any thoughts. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Dezman Jackson >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at Wal-Mart. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >> >> >>> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >>> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >>> Joseph said. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>> Hope, >>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>>> technique >>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word wasn't >>>> too >>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>>> word >>>> "No" and "Stop That". >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> Yolanda >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have a >>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the person >>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>>> what >>>>> the nfb centers do. >>>>> >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>>> nails. I >>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>>> God >>>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>>> eyes, >>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>>> me. >>>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>>> still struggle >>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>> people. >>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>>> have to >>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>>> bunch of >>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>>> out of >>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>>> age, or >>>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>>> much of my >>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>>> behavior is >>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>situations. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>>>>>>Arielle >>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>>> 40visi.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 06:01:45 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:01:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com> <48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com> Message-ID: Can you get a third party involved? A prof or parent? I had to do that to get my texts and accommodations straightened out. With enough pressure from enough people they have to do things. Write to whoever you can think of - your registrar, anyone. You don't have to get mad (though you may have to if it takes any longer) but firmness works. Maybe getting in touch with a librarian who can help if you're looking for computers to use there? Good luck, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I'm really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how WindowsR connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 06:02:51 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060823s30ff9166q4c4b79e9e41b41c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <012301c93f8d$778b0d30$88d8fe45@Dezman> <009f01c9401c$b794e420$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0811060823s30ff9166q4c4b79e9e41b41c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're violating your right to an education and that's criminal. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. Beth On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello Franandiah, > > There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the preferred > method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one should use > braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and the like. > > Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend of mine had > 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is very low > vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her not using > braille. > > You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. The simple > fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day from straining > to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, and no > peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using braille. > > It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide you a > service you need to continue your education. don't let it happen. > > I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB President in > your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. > > I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian school is > necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving services, you > should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing you with the > right to read. > > The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they will do what > it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that happen. > > Sincerely, > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandiah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of >> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of >> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the >> dominate medium instead of large print? >> >> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> Franandiah, >>> This is a crying shame. >>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same >>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what >>> you >>> need. >>> >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>> luckier than you know. >>>> >>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 06:05:09 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:05:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060830g31a3ca2cvad1c33efd71c11cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081105221152.WMQI463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051856s24901051kff1afa02f1925e81@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060830g31a3ca2cvad1c33efd71c11cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: don't judge, my friends. There are plenty of people in the developed world that don't have good views about blindness. Let's not kid ourselves and judge others based on where they live. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:31 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction I know that in third world countries, people don't exactly have a good outlook on blindness. That's why I wouldn't want to go anywhere near places like El Salvador and stuff. Beth On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > I play paino compleatly by ear and people are all like "How do you do > that?!" I just sit there and laugh. I admit, it is really anoying that > people don't think blind people can do anythign for themselves. I > mean, I went down to El Salvador for a missions trip two years ago and > they asked me the most stupidest questions and said the most stupidest > comments. "Wow! Blind people can swim?!" "Wow, you sew?" "How can you > find where your bed is when you can't see?!" I was about to scream by > the end of the trip and I called my parents and I was like "they think > I can't do anything!" My mum told me that they were just ingorant and > you need to teach them what blind people can really do." I know people > didn't know a lot about blindness, but I never knew it could be THAT > bad... > > On 11/5/08, Beth wrote: >> I play the piano, and yes, I do read Braille music notation. I can >> read and play by ear, which makes things seem more amazing. lol >> Beth >> >> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> What do you play, Beth, and to make this student related, do you >>> read braille music? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:14:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction >>> >>>>I can't stand how people find it amazing that I can play my >>> music. It >>>>sucks that people even find it amazing that I can eat. Here's a >>>>little story you might enjoy: I was sitting down to eat once at a >>>>cafeteria, and someone asked if I was fed or not. Interesting >>> stuff, >>>>eh? >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/4/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>> Yeah, >>>>> One barrier to making true friendships is that some people can't >>> just carry >>>>> on normal conversations with you with talking about the >>> blindness and "how >>>>> amazing it is that you can find your way down the hall". >>> >>>>> Dezman >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 7 06:08:39 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:08:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Masters of Devinity In-Reply-To: <35F4A3E3EE3E453CA8D19EDED5F5E1E3@TheCooksPC> References: <35F4A3E3EE3E453CA8D19EDED5F5E1E3@TheCooksPC> Message-ID: Wow! Sounds awesome. I can't help at all (sorry) but good luck. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cook Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:41 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Masters of Devinity Hello listers, I am considering obtaining my MDIV degree. I am wondering if any of you have gone to seminary? More specifically I am looking for anyone who has attended Liberty University either on campus or online. Has anyone had to take Greek and Hebrew classes? Thanks for any help. Corey Cook _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jenny26 at tds.net Fri Nov 7 06:26:23 2008 From: jenny26 at tds.net (Jennifer Hall) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:26:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com><48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com><002901c9405f$206ee8a0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Bro. Mark, the greeter letters are ready to go out tomorrow morning. Let me know if you need anything else. I will bring your mail tomorrow night. Mom has had a really rough week at work and I haven't had the chance to get it to you. See you tomorrow. Jennifer B. Hall (270) 988-2816 Home (270) 559-1780 Mobile jennib1976 at gmail.com www.myspace.com/jennifersconnection ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Antonio, Yes the law does grant equal access. But its section 504. Section 508 is regarding accessible software in the government. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Elizabeth, I believe section 508 of the rehabilitation act dictates that publicly funded institutions, like a college that receives financial aid, be responsible for providing equal access. I admit that my knowledge of disability law is lacking somewhat, so others should feel free to correct me, and clarify what I am trying to say. How hard is it for your college staff to understand you need equal access to college computers? I think they understand, but as Corb points out, may not be the best at problem-solving. This is where you come in to let them know about their responsibility to provide you reasonable accommodation. If students are learning to use databases for scholarly research, and they can do this with the convenient help of a librarian, then, you should have access to a computer with jaws in the library. If a writing center provides tutors in matters dealing with writing a paper, you should have access to a computer there. If there is a logical place where scanners and braille embosser are set up, it is obvious you should have computer access with adaptive technology there, too. and, if the college is installing this stuff, and it isn't working, and they have promised you they'd set you up, and have failed, then, it might be time to give them a little push. Keep notes on what is happening when, and let them know that Mr. DSS Office, you said this summer, on June 25 that I'd have jaws installed by the beginning of class. You tech guy promised to smooth the technology difficulties by August 28. Neither of these things has happened. And, I am suffering the consequences as a result. I believe the college should provide reasonable accommodations, and in fact, this is the law, as put forth by the rehabilitation act, section 508. They know all about the law, and by them knowing that you too are aware, they will pick up the pace. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3592 (20081106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenny26%40tds.net From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 7 06:57:13 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 00:57:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. References: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811051854w33504e52lb22d72baadf108c5@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9403e$8c11da20$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <3C18224A11E647E3B0B8096C0C066D7D@davee984e49f02> Good evening Peter, Please check out the following link: http://www.webvisum.com Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] YouTube. > Good afternoon everyone, > > To my knowledge there are no such plug-ins for Internet Explorer and > other browsers. Now there's an idea for a programming project for someone > wanting to take it on and perhaps receive some college credit. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] YouTube. > > > Don't we have resolutions about this issue? We had a resolution > passed which stated very clearly that we don't like visual > verifications, don't like anything that holds deaf/blind people back, > and don't like to see it online. > Beth > > On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >> Hi. Someone told me that you can get a plug in for fire fox that >> will solve the visual captia. >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "priscilla" >>To: "nabs-l" >>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 >>>Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. >> >>>Hey listers, >>>I am posting because I am rather annoyed >> >>>I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to >> use the visual verification codes for security reasons. >>>Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can >> answer instead? >>>I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's >> help because of the annoying verification image. >>>the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to >> those of us who are visually impaired. >>>this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also >> agree with me on that matter. >> >>>anyway, I updated my live journal >>>go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com >> >>>Thank you very much. >> >>>Priscilla >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 7 07:08:06 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:08:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus References: <4383d01d0811060147g28732b0fmb12998636310bfdb@mail.gmail.com><48FE74CC-88F3-497F-8518-3F7054109501@gmail.com><002901c9405f$206ee8a0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Good morning Jennifer, I believe you meant this for another and not the list... No worries, I've definitely made the same mistake. At least you didn't really send anything too sensitive. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Hall" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Bro. Mark, the greeter letters are ready to go out tomorrow morning. Let me know if you need anything else. I will bring your mail tomorrow night. Mom has had a really rough week at work and I haven't had the chance to get it to you. See you tomorrow. Jennifer B. Hall (270) 988-2816 Home (270) 559-1780 Mobile jennib1976 at gmail.com www.myspace.com/jennifersconnection ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Antonio, Yes the law does grant equal access. But its section 504. Section 508 is regarding accessible software in the government. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Elizabeth, I believe section 508 of the rehabilitation act dictates that publicly funded institutions, like a college that receives financial aid, be responsible for providing equal access. I admit that my knowledge of disability law is lacking somewhat, so others should feel free to correct me, and clarify what I am trying to say. How hard is it for your college staff to understand you need equal access to college computers? I think they understand, but as Corb points out, may not be the best at problem-solving. This is where you come in to let them know about their responsibility to provide you reasonable accommodation. If students are learning to use databases for scholarly research, and they can do this with the convenient help of a librarian, then, you should have access to a computer with jaws in the library. If a writing center provides tutors in matters dealing with writing a paper, you should have access to a computer there. If there is a logical place where scanners and braille embosser are set up, it is obvious you should have computer access with adaptive technology there, too. and, if the college is installing this stuff, and it isn't working, and they have promised you they'd set you up, and have failed, then, it might be time to give them a little push. Keep notes on what is happening when, and let them know that Mr. DSS Office, you said this summer, on June 25 that I'd have jaws installed by the beginning of class. You tech guy promised to smooth the technology difficulties by August 28. Neither of these things has happened. And, I am suffering the consequences as a result. I believe the college should provide reasonable accommodations, and in fact, this is the law, as put forth by the rehabilitation act, section 508. They know all about the law, and by them knowing that you too are aware, they will pick up the pace. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" To: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trouble Using Computers on Campus Thank you for all the suggestions you have given me. I talk to the person in charge of technology in the disabilities office on a regular bases given all the problems I encounter using accessible technology on campus. She does not seem to understand my needs as a blind student no matter how many times I tell her. It is rather frustrating trying to work with a disabilities office that seems to apply a one size fits all approach to providing services to students with disabilities. All of your suggestions are great, but what I’m really looking for is some kind of source that I could use to hold the college responsible for ensuring that the accessible technology they have be installed and running properly if that is in fact their responsibility. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3592 (20081106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenny26%40tds.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 07:21:21 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:21:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4913ec74.2a528c0a.1c10.ffff9103@mx.google.com> I like your attitude Christopher, as a matter of fact it made my day, smile. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Kchao Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of self-imposed ignorance, if you will. I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may bore some of us to tears. From terri.rupp at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 08:33:01 2008 From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 03:33:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: Itls only been about three years that I have been calling myself blind. Prior to that, I live by the phrase "fake it till you make it". However, as a college student, it became more and more obvious, my faking it was not making it at all. It was getting extremely exhausting both physically and emotionally pretending I could see. I realized that faking it only made things harder. After realizing how much time and energy I was putting into pretending I could see, I decided that unless I made a drastic change in my attitude I would never be able to live a productive life. There is a saying I heard once in a seminar while working with teens, "I would rather be a competent blind person, than an incompetent sighted person". The more I tried to see, the more incompetent I felt. When I found the National Federation of the Blind in 2005, I found positive blind role models living productive happy lives. They were proud to carry canes. They read Braille faster than I could read large print. I wondered why it had taken me so long to find this. Why my cane at home was folded up in the corner of the closet? Why did I give myself headaches every night trying to read my own handwriting? Now I wonder where I would be, if I would never have found the NFB. What would I be doing if I would have never taken the time to get training at the Louisiana Center for the Blind? I would be one of those people that we are trying to reach out to today. I lived in denial of my blindness for over 20 years. I was angry with my parents when they wanted to help me. I had often wished to be fully sighted or fully blind. And I never felt like a complete human being. Thanks to my training at LCB and the friends that I have found through the federation, I am now your NABS president and the president of the Nevada affiliate. I am living a fully functioning, happy, productive life. I use every opportunity to educate both the sighted and the blind about our movement. However, we can't expect everyone to jump on board immediately. The word blind is and unbelievably powerful word. We are in no way blurring the lines or sacrificing our philosophy by using phrases like "visually impaired" or "legally blind". Caves are carved out by tiny drops of water. We must spread our philosophy one bit at a time. If Rosy would have walked up to me as a 16 year old and handed me a cane telling me I was blind, I would have said "I don't know what you're talking about. I can see just fine" However, if you ask anyone on the convention floor what they regret most. You'll find that many of them will say "I wish I would have found the federation earlier in life" So let's work together to bring in those people who call themselves "visually impaired" or "legally blind" and give them the mentoring that we have been given ourselves by loving Federationists. After time, they too will understand that "it is respectable to be blind" Yours, Terri Rupp, President National Association of Blind Students (707)-567-3019 nabs.president at gmail.com "The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond into the impossible" - Arthur C. Clarke From harryhogue at yahoo.com Fri Nov 7 10:07:33 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 02:07:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out In-Reply-To: <2A8C79BEB2A643B9B40CD0BE2407F5AF@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <771558.43004.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I woke up unable to get back to sleep, so who knows how this could turn out. :)   Limitations are false bariers.  Ignore them. I take this to mean that if you believe it you can achieve it.  A cliche, to be sure, but valid nevertheless.   Fear is the greatest limitation of all.  It is more perilizing than any physical disability.  It can and often does affect many aspects of life; it is an incidious worm, burrowing itself into daily life.   All that to say this.  It does not matter what anyone else says they can or cannot do; at the end of the day it only matters waht I desire to do and what I know I can do.  Someone telling me it is impossible only means they have yet to do it or know of it being done... The same thing was said about fling, talking instantly with people over long idstances, and all these other things that we now take for granted as daily parts of our lives.   So what makes blindness so different from any of the other undiscovered aspets of life?  For centuries, blindness has equaled hopeless, loss, and misery.  Why was this?  What is it about darkness, both physical and psychological, that makes human beings so terrified?   Not addressing any specific faith or religious beliefs, but I have found meditation to be extremely helpful in helping me to face the fear.  It doesn't mean that it is gone, but it helps me to analyse why I feel the way I do; mindful breathing during the moment also helps--being aware of your body, how you feel, and paying attention to what causes you fear, tension, stress, etc.   Joe, thank you for reminding me of these things; I am saving your e-mail--there will be times when I will doubt myself, both in Minnesota at training, and otherwise, and I can look back at that and say, but this is what I have always believed, and here is someone else backing me up 100 percent, who also understands how these things work.   Only my two cents.  Don't you just love 4:00 a.m. ramblings?  Take care,   Harry   --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Joe Orozco wrote: From: Joe Orozco Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:13 PM Harry, Forgive the delayed response. I found your post to be quite refreshing but am just now finding sufficient time to give it some thought. Let me give you a glimpse of some of the larger things I want to accomplish before I die. I want to write the horror novel that will put Stephen King's latest nightmares to shame. I want the novel to be later turned into the movie that will make you wish you had Stephen King back. The outdoors are great, but I embrace my privacy and want my own property to be able to ride the score of horses I will one day own. The property should be large enough to share with the children I will take in to protect against violence and neglect. It only makes sense to provide them a home after winning cases that will condemn the perpetrators that would dare spread the strife of modern-day slavery. I only ask that the children are nice to the even larger mass of canines I will pull off the streets and filthy shelters. Maybe the presence of the horses, kids and dogs will create unnecessary noise, or maybe the noise will stop long enough to listen to the music I will compose on the piano I will soon master. After a long day of service to my country I am confident I will be able to get one step closer toward reading all the best classics ever written, and perhaps from their pages I will go to bed thinking there is one more ambition I might do well to conquer. Never mind the number of steps it will take to accomplish just one of these goals. I am too arrogant to allow such words as "hope" and "maybe" to enter my thoughts, let alone my writing, and if I should take a fancy to one day visit the moon, one can only assume that distant rock will be sturdy enough to hold the weight of my expectations. The point is simply this: You are the author of your own destiny. If the results of your career assessment claim you can do any number of things, it may be owed to the fact that you are too grand to be summed up by any flimsy evaluation put together by an academic too ignorant to recognize the lack of borders of the human mind. If you want to teach, then teach. If you want to teach in some remote village in Africa, pack some mosquito nets. I am by no means the brightest Crayon in the box. I shared your fear of the math section in the GRE. Yet I find myself a semester away from a Master's. If I can do it, you can do it better. Life would be absolutely dull were things laid out in an easy pattern. Every two weeks, sometimes every other day, I feel confused about what I am doing today and get restless about jumping ahead to what may be found tomorrow. Some people would call such state of mind pitiful. I call these people jealous, because they lack the number of options necessary to achieve this level of complication. Pick an ambition. Invest your best efforts into it, and if another ambition should catch your will tomorrow, use what you learned from the first ambition to cultivate a passion. Reflectively yours, Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Harry Hogue Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Figuring Things Out Hello everyone,   Let me apologize in advance for how long this turned out!  I thought as I wrote and so you're getting my stream of consciousness!  Thanks!   I would like to hear from anyone, either on list or off of it, who has taken the GRE...preferably if your math skills aren't great.  I am looking around at some other graduate schools after deciding that linguistics may not be the best master's, based on a class that I'm taking this semester having to do with the historical development of English.  Most graduate schools either requrie the GRE or the MAT, with the majority prefering the GRE.  I truly do not believe that I have the skills to pass the GRE because of its math section--and although part of it may have to do with vision, a lot of it is just genetic--I simply am not good at math (neither is my brother who is fully sighted).  Thoughts, though, on succeeding with it, if I have to take it, are appreciated.   I would also welcoem any strategies for finding schools that accept the MAT.  Oh and for a master's degree, I still want to be a college professor but am looking aroun at my options--I have actually thought about doing TEFL/TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) overseas...I'm really a bit intimidated.  I know what I want; I think I would really like the idea of teaching overseas for a year or two and being a professor (in whatever order those happen to arrive); I've even thought about going for a master's overseas--is that a crazy idea?   I am at this point where I am very confused and don't feel like I have a whole lot of time.  I took a career assessment, and as I suspected, it said that my responses didn't show a clear pattern, meaning I have a lot of options and basically could do anything.   So this post isn't really about the GRE, or graduate school, or teaching, or any of it.  I suppose it's more about me trying to make sense out of the confusion; I'm hoping for the things I want, wishing desperately for them to be possible, but still having the doubt that I could be comfortable going overseas and teaching (how could I, given that every time I move I have tention in my body from the cane)?  I say it is from the cane, because while walking down the hall, when no one else was around, I stopped using the cane and just held it vertical, and noticed that my tention immediately eased.  I was much more comfortable and I had no anxiety at all.  The constant noise of the cane on the concrete/tapping against doors/etc grates on me, and I am just now figuring this out.  Has anyone else experienced this?   Thanks, if you've made it this far.  I didn't intend for this to turn into a book.   Thanks,   Harry Hogue   _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 10:20:49 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 04:20:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: Message-ID: <04ea01c940c2$827e5400$88d8fe45@Dezman> Awsom points, Terri and congrads on your presidency of the Navada affiliate. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Itls only been about three years that I have been calling myself blind. > Prior to that, I live by the phrase "fake it till you make it". However, > as > a college student, it became more and more obvious, my faking it was not > making it at all. It was getting extremely exhausting both physically and > emotionally pretending I could see. I realized that faking it only made > things harder. After realizing how much time and energy I was putting > into > pretending I could see, I decided that unless I made a drastic change in > my > attitude I would never be able to live a productive life. There is a > saying > I heard once in a seminar while working with teens, "I would rather be a > competent blind person, than an incompetent sighted person". The more I > tried to see, the more incompetent I felt. When I found the National > Federation of the Blind in 2005, I found positive blind role models living > productive happy lives. They were proud to carry canes. They read > Braille > faster than I could read large print. I wondered why it had taken me so > long to find this. Why my cane at home was folded up in the corner of the > closet? Why did I give myself headaches every night trying to read my own > handwriting? Now I wonder where I would be, if I would never have found > the > NFB. What would I be doing if I would have never taken the time to get > training at the Louisiana Center for the Blind? > > I would be one of those people that we are trying to reach out to today. > I > lived in denial of my blindness for over 20 years. I was angry with my > parents when they wanted to help me. I had often wished to be fully > sighted > or fully blind. And I never felt like a complete human being. Thanks to > my > training at LCB and the friends that I have found through the federation, > I > am now your NABS president and the president of the Nevada affiliate. I > am > living a fully functioning, happy, productive life. I use every > opportunity > to educate both the sighted and the blind about our movement. > > However, we can't expect everyone to jump on board immediately. The word > blind is and unbelievably powerful word. We are in no way blurring the > lines or sacrificing our philosophy by using phrases like "visually > impaired" or "legally blind". Caves are carved out by tiny drops of > water. > We must spread our philosophy one bit at a time. If Rosy would have > walked > up to me as a 16 year old and handed me a cane telling me I was blind, I > would have said "I don't know what you're talking about. I can see just > fine" However, if you ask anyone on the convention floor what they regret > most. You'll find that many of them will say "I wish I would have found > the > federation earlier in life" > > So let's work together to bring in those people who call themselves > "visually impaired" or "legally blind" and give them the mentoring that we > have been given ourselves by loving Federationists. After time, they too > will understand that "it is respectable to be blind" > > > > Yours, > > Terri Rupp, President > > National Association of Blind Students > > (707)-567-3019 > > nabs.president at gmail.com > > > > "The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond > into > the impossible" - Arthur C. Clarke > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Fri Nov 7 10:31:55 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 04:31:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd Free tuition for law school Message-ID: >Anybody want to transfer? Dave >news: free tuition in 2009 for UC >Irvine law school students] > > >- >Subject: CAPVI news: free tuition in 2009 for UC Irvine law school >students >Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:16:49 -0800 >From: Anne Ward > > > >Law School Free for UC Irvine?s Entering 2009 Class >Posted Oct 22, 2008, 08:34 am CST >By Debra Cassens Weiss >Students >who enroll at the University of California?s new law school in Irvine >next fall will get their legal education for free. >The law school is giving full tuition scholarships worth about $100,000 >to its first 2009 class of about 60 students, the National Law Journal >reports. >Charles Cannon, assistant dean of development and external affairs >at the law school, told the publication UC Irvine hopes to attract >high-quality students with the offer. The free tuition is expected to >cost the school about $6 million, he said. >The school is seeking donations to cover the scholarships and has so far >raised about a third of the money. >The story also reports that the law school had originally called >itself the Donald Bren School of Law in honor of a $20 million donor, >but the school is dropping the name. It will be called the University >of California, Irvine, a name that is parallel to other UC schools. > >lto:Mail2Corbett%40yahoo.com> From corbbo at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 10:53:34 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:53:34 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Vabs] Masters of Devinity? References: Message-ID: <76697D84-5DA8-4802-882C-06F43CD21516@gmail.com> Maybe one of you here can help Corey? Begin forwarded message: From: "Corey Cook" Date: November 7, 2008 4:42:46 AM GMT To: Subject: [Vabs] Masters of Devinity? Hello listers, I am considering obtaining my MDIV degree. I am wondering if any of you have gone to seminary? More specifically I am looking for anyone who has attended Liberty University either on campus or online. Has anyone had to take Greek and Hebrew classes? Thanks for any help. Corey Cook _______________________________________________ Vabs mailing list Vabs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/vabs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Vabs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/vabs_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From henryfvasquez at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 11:17:37 2008 From: henryfvasquez at gmail.com (Henry Vasquez) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 03:17:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FUNDRAISING SUGGESTIONS! Message-ID: Hello! NABS listers, this is just Henry Vasquez. I know that what I'm about to write about has nothing to do with what this list is about but, I wrote this POST to California Association of Blind Students and I thought that the listers on NABS also might have some suggestions on some fundraising ideas. I'm in the process of Fundraising for a Very wonderful, special, Beautiful, Native American, person named Andrea mustain, who has a very terrible form of Cancer. I would of named the cancer but my spelling wouldn't do it credit, but I was asking anyone on NABS, if they could E Mail any suggestions off list on what would be the best methods to fundraise for her cancer treatments. Currently, all of Andreas friends, and tribe members are handing out Flyers that has Andreas and her little daughters picture on it. It also has a link to her websight where people can donate on it and a brief Bio. On my own I am going to have a benefit Dinner. I am also in the process of writing a Joke book that I am going to call "LAUGH for LIFE", that I am writing with the help of my son and his friends. My mother is a special Education specialist and has a print shop at her school and offered to print the Joke books at a limited cost. I think that the flyer was a good start, but I was looking for any further suggestions on fundraising ideas, especially since this is my first time I have ever done so. My E mail is henryfvasquez at gmail.com and my Cel phone number is 323-617-1007 Thanks for all of your input. If anyone is interested in reading about Andrea and her story or even helping, or donating, here is the link to her websight. http://www.geocities.com/amustain1/ Henry Vasquez. YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. Live life as if there is no tomorrow. Laugh as if no one is listening. Dance as if no one is watching. Love as if you have never been hurt. SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:02:02 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:02:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FUNDRAISING SUGGESTIONS! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070602n4533f2b6l34ab31ac5ef8533e@mail.gmail.com> I just saw her website. It was very awesome! Thanks, Henry. I'll write you off list with more detailed suggestions. Beth On 11/7/08, Henry Vasquez wrote: > Hello! NABS listers, this is just Henry Vasquez. I know that what I'm > about to write about has nothing to do with what this list is about but, I > wrote this POST to California Association of Blind Students and I thought > that the listers on NABS also might have some suggestions on some > fundraising ideas. I'm in the process of Fundraising for a Very wonderful, > special, Beautiful, Native American, person named Andrea mustain, who has > a very terrible form of Cancer. I would of named the cancer but my spelling > wouldn't do it credit, but I was asking anyone on NABS, if they could E > Mail any suggestions off list on what would be the best methods to fundraise > for her cancer treatments. Currently, all of Andreas friends, and tribe > members are handing out Flyers that has Andreas and her little daughters > picture on it. It also has a link to her websight where people can donate > on it and a brief Bio. On my own I am going to have a benefit Dinner. I am > also in the process of writing a Joke book that I am going to call "LAUGH > for LIFE", that I am writing with the help of my son and his friends. My > mother is a special Education specialist and has a print shop at her school > and offered to print the Joke books at a limited cost. I think that the > flyer was a good start, but I was looking for any further suggestions on > fundraising ideas, especially since this is my first time I have ever done > so. My E mail is henryfvasquez at gmail.com and my Cel phone number is > 323-617-1007 Thanks for all of your input. If anyone is interested in > reading about Andrea and her story or even helping, or donating, here is > the link to her websight. > http://www.geocities.com/amustain1/ > > > Henry Vasquez. > YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO > CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. > Live life as if there is no tomorrow. > Laugh as if no one is listening. > Dance as if no one is watching. > Love as if you have never been hurt. > SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:06:11 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:06:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. In-Reply-To: <3C18224A11E647E3B0B8096C0C066D7D@davee984e49f02> References: <20081106004950.BDMA463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811051854w33504e52lb22d72baadf108c5@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9403e$8c11da20$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <3C18224A11E647E3B0B8096C0C066D7D@davee984e49f02> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070606k27ff5c4do957acbab9c76c46b@mail.gmail.com> Did you know that if you have a Google account you don't have to deal with the visual verifications as welll? BethBe On 11/7/08, Dave Wright wrote: > Good evening Peter, > Please check out the following link: > > http://www.webvisum.com > > > Best Regards: > David Wright > > Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu > Mobile: 832-518-0707 > > http://www.knfbreader.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] YouTube. > > >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> To my knowledge there are no such plug-ins for Internet Explorer and >> other browsers. Now there's an idea for a programming project for someone >> wanting to take it on and perhaps receive some college credit. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] YouTube. >> >> >> Don't we have resolutions about this issue? We had a resolution >> passed which stated very clearly that we don't like visual >> verifications, don't like anything that holds deaf/blind people back, >> and don't like to see it online. >> Beth >> >> On 11/5/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> Hi. Someone told me that you can get a plug in for fire fox that >>> will solve the visual captia. >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "priscilla" >>>To: "nabs-l" >>>Date sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:47:37 -0500 >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube. >>> >>>>Hey listers, >>>>I am posting because I am rather annoyed >>> >>>>I am pretty annoyed because I don't understand why people have to >>> use the visual verification codes for security reasons. >>>>Why don't they challenge people with a secret question we can >>> answer instead? >>>>I wanted to sign up for YouTube but couldn't without my roomate's >>> help because of the annoying verification image. >>>>the worse part of this is that there is no alternative given to >>> those of us who are visually impaired. >>>>this is not only me who is annoyed, but everyone else would also >>> agree with me on that matter. >>> >>>>anyway, I updated my live journal >>>>go to : Priscy21.livejournal.com >>> >>>>Thank you very much. >>> >>>>Priscilla >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:09:16 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:09:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social interaction In-Reply-To: <4913ec74.2a528c0a.1c10.ffff9103@mx.google.com> References: <4913ec74.2a528c0a.1c10.ffff9103@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070609x7694f544v538f2274be3fb136@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, music is lots of memorization. My piano teacher here is like, "Remember the following things: notes, rhythms, articulations, fingering (will be consistent), and dynamics." How much harder can life be? (smile) Beth On 11/7/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > I like your attitude Christopher, as a matter of fact it made my day, smile. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Christopher Kchao > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social interaction > > I don't think things are as bad as they might seem, and they certainly don't > > need to be viewed in that kind of a negative light all the time. Treat > everyone like they're ignorant and like they ask the "stupidest" questions > and they won't want to learn anything. I don't have a huge problem with > people asking questions as it shows that they at least want to gain some > knowledge about the issue at hand. In my opinion, it really beats singling > out an individual or group of people and making blind assumptions (pun not > intended). Those kind of broad generalizations about anyone are signs of > self-imposed ignorance, if you will. > I can get around New York city and do so with moderate independence. Yes, > I'll see a stranger now and then who's totally amazed at the skill, courage, > > or idiocy involved in wanting to even take on such a task. The thing is > this. I wouldn't be so quick to say that person is just flying off the > handlebars, sizing me up and drawing conclusions based on what they think I > can do. I don't think it really gets that personal. We're talking about the > sighted majority who probably turn on the bathroom light just so they can > brush their teeth. Often times, they look at themselves and aren't quite > sure how they'd manage. A little education can go a long way, much as it may > > bore some of us to tears. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:10:26 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:10:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends In-Reply-To: References: <265810.16594.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003e01c93e25$a8ff3760$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811031949x56b04371l5a6a543463862ee@mail.gmail.com> <4587C928B13543C49C8015951C0EB9E3@Ashley> <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070610t6b8abc7at69db733f0ebf2478@mail.gmail.com> Gosh, Sarah, at least I'm not the onl one in your boat. lol Beth On 11/7/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > yeah... it's a precarious system I wouldn't recommend for long distances - > usually someone rescues me anyway. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:44 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > > You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I > am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Albert, >> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and > enjoy >> >> it. >> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >> to some and get something out of it. She said >> >> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such." >> >> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that > is >> what you want to do. >> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a > play >> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food > court. >> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening > then. >> >> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or > anyone >> >> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to > go >> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy > and >> >> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Albert Yoo" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>> >>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or > ice >> >>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>> you were alone. Albert >>> >>> >>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless > at >> >>>> a >>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>> if >>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going > to >>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>> should >>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a > recent >>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>> golf! >>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>> in >>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>> to >>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>> (like >>>>>> one >>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>> lol--and >>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>> Spanish >>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>> these >>>>>> feelings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>> thing, >>>>>> not >>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>> else >>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>> sports >>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>> that >>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>> say--but >>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>> is >>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>> way >>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> to >>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>> adapted >>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>> I >>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration > and >>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>> and >>>>>> this >>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>> found >>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on > this. >> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>> people >>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>> because >>>>>> I >>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade > school >>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often >>>>>> that >>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel > it >>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>> listen to >>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>> you >>>>>> walk >>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>> skill >>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>> days >>>>>> I >>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't >>>>>> have >>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>> just too >>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >> .com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>> >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:11:48 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:11:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette In-Reply-To: References: <20081103115104.YTJR20070.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <043801c93e1d$198fd4c0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811031916yf8a96f7j6fe2e3d74a4c54e6@mail.gmail.com> <05fc01c93ee2$ca18e550$88d8fe45@Dezman> <4383d01d0811060143o7b48cbe9r278c4998b3ee30b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070611o780e5e28xf20d3076df60b4ea@mail.gmail.com> It's meant for all visually impaired people. But the article was written for parents, but it serves its purpose. Beth On 11/7/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I know what you mean. It can be a bit traumatic at times, but honestly it > can only benefit you. 100%. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Franandah Damstra > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette > > Man, my parents were SO strict on table maners it was crazy. I'm > constantly being yelled at for very small things. It is almost like > sometimes it is overboard. lol I know it is for the best, but > sometimes it can get very anoying. > > On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >> Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce. That's perfect as >> far as table manners. It shows us how parents can teach their >> children table manners from day one. I know it's from a parents' >> magazine, but it's an excellent article. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is >>> extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught >>> from >>> day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder >>> if >>> anyone else has any thoughts. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Dezman Jackson >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at > Wal-Mart. >>> >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>> >>> >>>> That's funny. I was in band for four years or more of my life. I am >>>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to >>>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't >>>> theirs. But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like >>>> Joseph said. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>>> Hope, >>>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer >>>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a >>>>> technique >>>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an >>>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word > wasn't >>>>> too >>>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the >>>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This >>>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to >>>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or >>>>> word >>>>> "No" and "Stop That". >>>>> >>>>> Warmest Regards, >>>>> Yolanda >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have > a >>>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the > person >>>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is >>>>>> what >>>>>> the nfb centers do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's >>>>>> nails. I >>>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did. >>>>>> God >>>>>>>knows when I saw him last! Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a >>>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e. pking of >>>>>> eyes, >>>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with >>>>>> me. >>>>>>>Beth >>>>>> >>>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self >>>>>>>> stimulation ... self soothing. They feel good so we do them >>>>>>>> naturally. We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>This is such a great topic. I admit that I had blindisms and >>>>>> still struggle >>>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally. I have eye-poking issues and rock >>>>>> occasionally. >>>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and >>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow? >>>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a >>>>>> bunch of >>>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers >>>>>> out of >>>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my >>>>>> age, or >>>>>>>>>much older. It was weird. If I work there again though I think >>>>>> much of my >>>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though. But how do you tell people their >>>>>> behavior is >>>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this >>>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post. I just wanted to add an experience of my >>>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work. When I was very young, I had >>>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, >>>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye. My parents would not allow me to do >>>>>>>>>this. When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how >>>>>>>>>much I'd matured. She said she was so proud that I didn't >>>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms. I asked my mother why she insisted that >>>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially >>>>>>>>>inappropriate. There are times, especially being totally blind, >>>>>>>>>when people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they >>>>>>>>>don't even know this fact. My mother said that she knew that I >>>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not >>>>>>>>>rocking or poking their eyes. She needed to put a stop to these >>>>>>>>>behaviors. She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially >>>>>>>>>appropriate. Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were >>>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in. It is in no way my >>>>>>>>>intention to offend people. If I have i apologize. When I >>>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain >>>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands. These students ranged in age from 9 >>>>>>>>>to 14. It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors >>>>>>>>>at those ages. The students progressed when it came time for >>>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have >>>>>>>>>been extinguished fully. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for >>>>>>>>>high >>>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and >>>>>>>>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact >>>>>>>>>sheet is >>>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as >>>>>>>>>there is >>>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one >>>>>>>>>setting >>>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. >>>>>>>>>Really what >>>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations >>>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in >>>>>>>>>those >>>>>>>>>>situations. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and >>>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good >>>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public >>>>>>>>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply >>>>>>>>>knowing >>>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In >>>>>>>>>order >>>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also >>>>>>>>>be >>>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full control of their >>>>>>>>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who >>>>>>>>>picks >>>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know >>>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's been told >>>>>>>>>it's >>>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply >>>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish >>>>>>>>>him for >>>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to >>>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's >>>>>>>>>doing >>>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch >>>>>>>>>inside >>>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally, >>>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some >>>>>>>>>behaviors >>>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can >>>>>>>>>become so >>>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to >>>>>>>>>stop >>>>>>>>>>they still have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example >>>>>>>>>of a >>>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's >>>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are >>>>>>>>>motivated >>>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating >>>>>>>>>it. >>>>>>>>>>(Speaking from personal experience here, but also from >>>>>>>>>conversations >>>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop >>>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a >>>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about >>>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but >>>>>>>>>there >>>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't >>>>>>>>>care, >>>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize >>>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve >>>>>>>>>their >>>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate >>>>>>>>>(knowledge), >>>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated >>>>>>>>>than >>>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because >>>>>>>>>they've >>>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see >>>>>>>>>other >>>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the >>>>>>>>>emphasis >>>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about >>>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different >>>>>>>>>social >>>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just >>>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for >>>>>>>>>good >>>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but >>>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through >>>>>>>>>experience that >>>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others >>>>>>>>>makes >>>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>>>>> nikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews% >>>>>> 40visi.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:12:34 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:12:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Menu In-Reply-To: <000301c9348e$8563cb40$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> References: <000301c9348e$8563cb40$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811070612u3bc220dcgf700383128e828d7@mail.gmail.com> Good idea. Beth On 10/22/08, Marianne Haas wrote: > Good Afternoon, > I have encountered several places with Braille m enues. However, not enough > places have it. So, I think we need to encourage restaurants to have > Braille menus and let managers know where menus can be brailled. > > Marianne > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces+braillewoman=earthlink.net at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces+braillewoman=earthlink.net at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Jamie Rhoads > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Menu > > They do that at Applebees around here as well. Usually, when my brother or > i go there, they will ask if we want a braille menu. it is pretty neat that > > places like that have braille menus. > > Jamie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben J. Bloomgren" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:13 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Menu > > >> Hello all, >> >> I went out to Red Robin with my mom on Saturday night, and something >> really >> cool happened. We walked into the restaurant, and as we were being seated, >> the host/usher asked us if quote anyone needs a Braille menu unquote. I >> was >> amazed. I said yes, and I gave it up before checking page 30 for the >> desserts. Point is, they actually asked us! >> >> ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/jrhoads284%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/braillewoman%40earthlink.net > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1735 - Release Date: 10/20/2008 > 2:52 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1735 - Release Date: 10/20/2008 > 2:52 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:13:44 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:13:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through References: <018401c933a7$bc855720$b848a962@Jessica> Message-ID: <001301c940e3$0c403c60$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Jessica they are comeing threw just fine. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through > Getting through most excellently, my friend. > Have a good day, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces+sarah.jevnikar=utoronto.ca at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces+sarah.jevnikar=utoronto.ca at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Jessica Kostiw > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] not sure if my messages are getting through > > Dear List, > I am not sure if any of my messages are getting through on the list. If > any > list member gets this message, would you mind replying to it. > Thanks, > Jesica > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Nov 7 14:26:30 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:26:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081107142602.PDMY2200.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I totally agree... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're violating your right >to an education and that's criminal. >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Beth >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. >Beth >On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hello Franandiah, >> There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the preferred >> method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one should use >> braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and the like. >> Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend of mine had >> 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is very low >> vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her not using >> braille. >> You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. The simple >> fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day from >straining >> to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, and no >> peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using braille. >> It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide you a >> service you need to continue your education. don't let it happen. >> I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB President >in >> your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. >> I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian school is >> necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving services, >you >> should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing you with >the >> right to read. >> The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they will do >what >> it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that happen. >> Sincerely, >> Antonio Guimaraes >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandiah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >>> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation of >>> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what type of >>> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as the >>> dominate medium instead of large print? >>> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> Franandiah, >>>> This is a crying shame. >>>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from the same >>>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get you what >>>> you >>>> need. >>>> Dezman >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>> though. >>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>> academic >>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d ezman%40gma >il.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >mail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae s%40nbp.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >ail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >ronto.ca >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 14:27:49 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:27:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: Message-ID: <008901c940e5$039a44a0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I have a question. When articles are ritten on us I find these wirds that we are speaking of in them. Is it better for those wirds to be in the articles in instead of the wird blind because it is so powerful? Maybe that would answer my question of why they used those wirds in the articles ritten on me because I am the first blind student to attend the massage therapy program at my local community college. I am just wondering why they don't just use the wird blind. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" To: "NABS list serve" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Itls only been about three years that I have been calling myself blind. > Prior to that, I live by the phrase "fake it till you make it". However, > as > a college student, it became more and more obvious, my faking it was not > making it at all. It was getting extremely exhausting both physically and > emotionally pretending I could see. I realized that faking it only made > things harder. After realizing how much time and energy I was putting > into > pretending I could see, I decided that unless I made a drastic change in > my > attitude I would never be able to live a productive life. There is a > saying > I heard once in a seminar while working with teens, "I would rather be a > competent blind person, than an incompetent sighted person". The more I > tried to see, the more incompetent I felt. When I found the National > Federation of the Blind in 2005, I found positive blind role models living > productive happy lives. They were proud to carry canes. They read > Braille > faster than I could read large print. I wondered why it had taken me so > long to find this. Why my cane at home was folded up in the corner of the > closet? Why did I give myself headaches every night trying to read my own > handwriting? Now I wonder where I would be, if I would never have found > the > NFB. What would I be doing if I would have never taken the time to get > training at the Louisiana Center for the Blind? > > I would be one of those people that we are trying to reach out to today. > I > lived in denial of my blindness for over 20 years. I was angry with my > parents when they wanted to help me. I had often wished to be fully > sighted > or fully blind. And I never felt like a complete human being. Thanks to > my > training at LCB and the friends that I have found through the federation, > I > am now your NABS president and the president of the Nevada affiliate. I > am > living a fully functioning, happy, productive life. I use every > opportunity > to educate both the sighted and the blind about our movement. > > However, we can't expect everyone to jump on board immediately. The word > blind is and unbelievably powerful word. We are in no way blurring the > lines or sacrificing our philosophy by using phrases like "visually > impaired" or "legally blind". Caves are carved out by tiny drops of > water. > We must spread our philosophy one bit at a time. If Rosy would have > walked > up to me as a 16 year old and handed me a cane telling me I was blind, I > would have said "I don't know what you're talking about. I can see just > fine" However, if you ask anyone on the convention floor what they regret > most. You'll find that many of them will say "I wish I would have found > the > federation earlier in life" > > So let's work together to bring in those people who call themselves > "visually impaired" or "legally blind" and give them the mentoring that we > have been given ourselves by loving Federationists. After time, they too > will understand that "it is respectable to be blind" > > > > Yours, > > Terri Rupp, President > > National Association of Blind Students > > (707)-567-3019 > > nabs.president at gmail.com > > > > "The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond > into > the impossible" - Arthur C. Clarke > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 7 14:29:21 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:29:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] friends Message-ID: <20081107142835.UQVH463.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I'll have to try that method of carrying a tray while using my guide dog. Not sure how well it will work, because like several of you, I have trouble keeping things level. I was actually carrying an empty plate and had my glass sitting on top of it once. My dog and I got up and were going to put it away and the dog shook, and down went the glass! I had the plate in my hand, won't do that again! Luckily everything was empty! Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:10:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >Gosh, Sarah, at least I'm not the onl one in your boat. lol >Beth >On 11/7/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> yeah... it's a precarious system I wouldn't recommend for long distances - >> usually someone rescues me anyway. > -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:44 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >> Beth >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> Albert, >>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >> enjoy >>> it. >>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such." >>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that >> is >>> what you want to do. >>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >> play >>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >> court. >>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >> then. >>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >> anyone >>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to >> go >>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy >> and >>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Albert Yoo" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >> ice >>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> Beth, >>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless >> at >>>>> a >>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>>> if >>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going >> to >>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>> should >>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >> recent >>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>>> ask >>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>> (like >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>> else >>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>>> sports >>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >> and >>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>>> found >>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >> this. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >> school >>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >> often >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel >> it >>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>>> days >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >> don't >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizo >>> n.net >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthl >>> ink.net >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo 1%40hotmail >>> .com >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.c om-Blog-cns >>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthl >>> ink.net >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> http://www.eset.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >> ail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 20:01:12 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <20081107142602.PDMY2200.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20081107142602.PDMY2200.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: At least there are some people who understand what I am going through...Everyone tells me "You have some sight so use it!" I honestly wish I was totatly blind so I can get the help I deserve. I would do anything to get braille, I just got back my report card and I got an E in maths...I'm so slow and can't comprehend what is going on because it is so visual! I need help desperatly and I will do ANYTHING to get it! On 11/7/08, hannah wrote: > I totally agree... > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Sarah Jevnikar" >To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're > violating your right >>to an education and that's criminal. > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>Of Beth >>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. >>Beth > >>On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hello Franandiah, > >>> There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the > preferred >>> method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one > should use >>> braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and > the like. > >>> Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend > of mine had >>> 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is > very low >>> vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her > not using >>> braille. > >>> You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. > The simple >>> fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day > from >>straining >>> to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, > and no >>> peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using > braille. > >>> It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide > you a >>> service you need to continue your education. don't let it > happen. > >>> I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB > President >>in >>> your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. > >>> I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian > school is >>> necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving > services, >>you >>> should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing > you with >>the >>> right to read. > >>> The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they > will do >>what >>> it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that > happen. > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Antonio Guimaraes > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >>>> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation > of >>>> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what > type of >>>> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as > the >>>> dominate medium instead of large print? > >>>> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>> Franandiah, >>>>> This is a crying shame. >>>>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from > the same >>>>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get > you what >>>>> you >>>>> need. > >>>>> Dezman >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL > ARE >>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but > that is >>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. > My >>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either > preferal >>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you > have >>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I > would do >>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much > longer, I >>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all > are >>>>>> luckier than you know. > >>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>> extra time on tests... > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>> though. > >>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>> with braille. > >>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? > >>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. > >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa > natic01%40g >>mail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d > ezman%40gma >>il.com > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa > natic01%40g >>mail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae > s%40nbp.org > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gm >>ail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev > nikar%40uto >>ronto.ca > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Fri Nov 7 22:33:30 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 17:33:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Picks released Message-ID: <013401c94128$dcd56680$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> dear students, as one of National Braille Press' customer service representatives, I invite you to call us, and receive our Winter Picks pamphlet, and join in the celebration. National Braille Press has been gearing up for the biggest birthday party in our time, the bicentennial of our beloved Louis Braille. Wear his colors! Louis Braille lapel pins. Bicentennial Wall Poster. Free poster, pay shipping only. Stay in Touch with Louis. Louis Braille note cards. Braille Opens Doors. Key chain featuring braille on one side, and image of hand reading braille on the other. Tactile Louis. A beautifully crafted lack featuring his face in profile, and the words Louis Braille 200. Limited edition, only 200 ever to be made by artist Ann Cunningham. Winnie the Pooh 2009 Calendar. And... Get Ready for More Potter! You will want to know about these items and more. Call and sign up to receive our braille catalogs. You may even want to sign up for an entire month's worth of Syndicated Columnist Weekly http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/SCW-1YR.html Call all next week, and get in on all we have to offer! Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Customer Service Representative National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 40. aguimaraes at nbp.org From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 7 22:37:19 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:37:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081107223632.JYTV24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi Franandah, I would seriously sit down with the principal of the school and try to discuss your needs with him or her. Unfortunately, private schools aren't required to provide any accommodations, but if you like going to that school (aside from the lack of assistance you're getting) then I'd talk to them. Make them give you what you need! This is rediculous. Otherwise, as much as I hate to say it, you should change schools. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:12 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >At least there are some people who understand what I am going >through...Everyone tells me "You have some sight so use it!" I >honestly wish I was totatly blind so I can get the help I deserve. I >would do anything to get braille, I just got back my report card and I >got an E in maths...I'm so slow and can't comprehend what is going on >because it is so visual! I need help desperatly and I will do ANYTHING >to get it! >On 11/7/08, hannah wrote: >> I totally agree... >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Sarah Jevnikar" >>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >>Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're >> violating your right >>>to an education and that's criminal. >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>Of Beth >>>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. >>>Beth >>>On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Hello Franandiah, >>>> There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the >> preferred >>>> method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one >> should use >>>> braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and >> the like. >>>> Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend >> of mine had >>>> 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is >> very low >>>> vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her >> not using >>>> braille. >>>> You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. >> The simple >>>> fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day >> from >>>straining >>>> to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, >> and no >>>> peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using >> braille. >>>> It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide >> you a >>>> service you need to continue your education. don't let it >> happen. >>>> I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB >> President >>>in >>>> your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. >>>> I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian >> school is >>>> necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving >> services, >>>you >>>> should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing >> you with >>>the >>>> right to read. >>>> The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they >> will do >>>what >>>> it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that >> happen. >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >>>>> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation >> of >>>>> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what >> type of >>>>> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as >> the >>>>> dominate medium instead of large print? >>>>> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>> Franandiah, >>>>>> This is a crying shame. >>>>>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from >> the same >>>>>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get >> you what >>>>>> you >>>>>> need. >>>>>> Dezman >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL >> ARE >>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but >> that is >>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. >> My >>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either >> preferal >>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >> have >>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I >> would do >>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >> longer, I >>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all >> are >>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >> natic01%40g >>>mail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d >> ezman%40gma >>>il.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >> natic01%40g >>>mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae >> s%40nbp.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gm >>>ail.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >> nikar%40uto >>>ronto.ca >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sat Nov 8 02:18:03 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:18:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081108021732.XQSF3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Great point; I'd have said the same thing... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Hope Paulos To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:37:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >Hi Franandah, I would seriously sit down with the principal of >the school and try to discuss your needs with him or her. >Unfortunately, private schools aren't required to provide any >accommodations, but if you like going to that school (aside from >the lack of assistance you're getting) then I'd talk to them. >Make them give you what you need! This is rediculous. Otherwise, >as much as I hate to say it, you should change schools. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Franandah Damstra" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:12 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>At least there are some people who understand what I am going >>through...Everyone tells me "You have some sight so use it!" I >>honestly wish I was totatly blind so I can get the help I >deserve. I >>would do anything to get braille, I just got back my report card >and I >>got an E in maths...I'm so slow and can't comprehend what is >going on >>because it is so visual! I need help desperatly and I will do >ANYTHING >>to get it! >>On 11/7/08, hannah wrote: >>> I totally agree... >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Sarah Jevnikar" >>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>>Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're >>> violating your right >>>>to an education and that's criminal. >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>Of Beth >>>>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. >>>>Beth >>>>On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hello Franandiah, >>>>> There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the >>> preferred >>>>> method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one >>> should use >>>>> braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and >>> the like. >>>>> Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend >>> of mine had >>>>> 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is >>> very low >>>>> vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her >>> not using >>>>> braille. >>>>> You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. >>> The simple >>>>> fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day >>> from >>>>straining >>>>> to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, >>> and no >>>>> peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using >>> braille. >>>>> It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide >>> you a >>>>> service you need to continue your education. don't let it >>> happen. >>>>> I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB >>> President >>>>in >>>>> your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. >>>>> I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian >>> school is >>>>> necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving >>> services, >>>>you >>>>> should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing >>> you with >>>>the >>>>> right to read. >>>>> The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they >>> will do >>>>what >>>>> it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that >>> happen. >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >>>>>> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation >>> of >>>>>> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what >>> type of >>>>>> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as >>> the >>>>>> dominate medium instead of large print? >>>>>> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>>> Franandiah, >>>>>>> This is a crying shame. >>>>>>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from >>> the same >>>>>>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get >>> you what >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> need. >>>>>>> Dezman >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL >>> ARE >>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but >>> that is >>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. >>> My >>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either >>> preferal >>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>> have >>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I >>> would do >>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>> longer, I >>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all >>> are >>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >>> natic01%40g >>>>mail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d >>> ezman%40gma >>>>il.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >>> natic01%40g >>>>mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae >>> s%40nbp.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gm >>>>ail.com >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>> nikar%40uto >>>>ronto.ca >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >natic01%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >os%40maine.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From freedmas at stolaf.edu Sat Nov 8 05:42:01 2008 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:42:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081105002734.LLBA8781.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: > Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE > LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get > nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is > about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My > sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal > vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have > some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do > anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I > go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are > luckier than you know. > > On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >> extra time on tests... >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rania" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >> also brailled. >>>Rania, >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >> to yours. >>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >> my TVI >>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >> tests. >>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >> though. >> >>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >> asked to >>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >> academic >>>> impact. So my questions. >>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >> more effective >>>> with braille. >> >>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >> handouts, >>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >> il04%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From tiger0581 at earthlink.net Sat Nov 8 11:54:35 2008 From: tiger0581 at earthlink.net (Ryan Mann) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:54:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] first screen reader to support 64-bit Windows Message-ID: > >From: Serotek Product Updates >Date: November 7, 2008 9:05:48 PM EST >To: rmann at samobile.net >Subject: System Access features and fixes just installed on ryan > > >Please do not reply to this message. > >Dear Ryan: > >As we continually improve System Access and the SA Mobile Network, >we want to make sure you know about all of the new features you're >getting, as well as fixes for any problems you may have previously >encountered. So this email describes the features and fixes that >were just installed on ryan. > >Features > >Support For 64 Bit versions of Windows! > > >Serotek is proud to announce the first release of a full-featured >screen access product with support for Windows XP and Vista that >includes 64 Bit versions. What does this mean to the user? Beginning >as early as June 2008, many of the computer stores and office supply >vendors have begun to stock their shelves with only computers >running OEM versions of 64 Bit Windows. Many an unsuspecting >customer has gotten home with a brand new computer only to discover >that they cannot install and use their access technology on it. With >the release of System Access 3.0, this is no longer an issue. Go out >and buy a new computer, bring it home, install System Access 3.0 and >you will be ready to go with your talking computer. >Support for refreshable Braille! > > >With the release of System Access 3.0, you can now have speech and >refreshable Braille output. With the use of the Alva BC-640 Braille >device, Serotek continues in its commitment to plug and play >accessibility anywhere. Take your System Access and your Braille >device with you to any computer and have speech and Braille output >with no installation needed. This also means that nothing is left >behind, not even Braille drivers when you are done working or >playing at that computer. > >Support for new simplified menus. > > >Our users have become use to quick access to E-mail, community >forums, diverse entertainment options and so much more with very few >key strokes within the System Access Mobile Network. Just when you >thought it couldn't get any better, it did. The new simplified menu >structure puts all of your favorite choices into lists where first- >letter navigation is now possible. While we call it the "simplified >menu interface," many of our advanced users have told us that >navigation is much quicker now. For those who want the classic >numbered menu option, it is also still available. > >Support for more responsive Neospeech! > > >Kate and Paul, our internally supported human sounding voices just >got faster. Whether moving through menus or typing quickly, users >will notice more immediate reaction as the high-quality voices >provide speech feedback to any computer task whether at work or play. > >Support for iTunes 8 and later! > > >With the advent of iTunes 8, Apple has made it possible for adaptive >technology organizations to support this application. Serotek again >raises the bar by not only supporting the application interface, but >also the iTunes store with quick and easy navigation for account >setup and browsing the store itself. Whether you are looking for >really cool podcasting, or getting serious about increasing and >cataloging your music library, System Access 3.0 will make it easy >for you to find your way around. > >Support for System Access To Go loading at lightning speed! > > >Due to its 75% smaller footprint, SATOGO (System Access To Go) >becomes virtually instant access to go whenever and wherever you >need it even with a slow Internet Connection. Did you leave home >without your U3 Key or Passkey CD? Don't worry, SATOGO has you >covered on any computer with an Internet connection! > >Support for easier install and repair! > > >Whether you are a brand new user or a Seasoned Serotek Subscriber, >you won't be hunting for that elusive install file somewhere on the >web site to set up or repair your software. If for any reason your >System Access or Mobile Network won't start for you, simply run >System Access to Go, log in with your credentials, go to the my >account link and either repair your installation or download and set >up a brand new copy of the System Access software. System Access is >even smart enough to know if you have an installation or not. If it >sees the software on your computer, you will hear the repair option. >If it does not see an installation, it will show you an install link >instead. > >Support for a new higher quality voice chat client! > > >With the System Access Mobile Network 3.0 release, users will notice >a much improved experience in the voice chat rooms. With its band- >width conserving, yet crisp audio, full-duplex operation in specific >rooms, the user can really enjoy the sounds of their growing >community. >Support For Voice Communication Over A Remote Session! > > >Whether you are fixing someone's computer, showing someone a cool >application you just installed or providing instruction and >training, the advent of full-duplex voice communication is just the >thing to use instead of a telephone or even Skype. You can now have >your communication all in one place. > >Support for All-In-Play Games! > > >Screen Access on computers isn't just for work anymore. It is also >for fun. Serotek continues its spirit of cooperation with other >companies by collaborating with All In Play, an interactive gaming >community to make it possible for System Access 3.0 users to play >their games: Tag, Crazy Eights, Draw Poker an Texas Hold'em. To >check it out, browse on over to: >All in Play > >Support for offline document scanning! > > >With System Access 3.0, it is now possible to scan and read >documents using our optional "Document Scan" application. The >implementation of this feature is just another in a long line of >user requests that Serotek has quickly responded to, in order to >make our products what you, the user wants in your Access software. >Fixes > >Recording of voice email messages, voice forum messages, and voice >notes works again. >Fixed a few serious problems with transfer of content to portable >devices such as the Victor Reader Stream. >Fixed a bug which prevented Windows Vista users from setting the SA >Mobile Network as their default browser unless they disabled UAC. >System Access once again reads the clock in the system tray. >The Open File button in the My Files section works again. >If you have experienced any problems with this update, please >contact Serotek technical support by email at support at serotek.com or >by phone at +1-650-249-1000. Thank you. > >The Serotek team From Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com Sat Nov 8 15:51:22 2008 From: Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com (Rachel Becker) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 10:51:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: > Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE > LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get > nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is > about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My > sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal > vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have > some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do > anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I > go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are > luckier than you know. > > On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >> extra time on tests... >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rania" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >> also brailled. >>>Rania, >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >> to yours. >>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >> my TVI >>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >> tests. >>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >> though. >> >>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >> asked to >>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >> academic >>>> impact. So my questions. >>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >> more effective >>>> with braille. >> >>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >> >>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >> handouts, >>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >> il04%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed u > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu ltants.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 8 16:20:30 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:20:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [real-eyes] Fw: interesting scholarship offer Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of bigdaddylou63 at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:05 AM To: real-eyes at freelists.org Subject: [real-eyes] Fw: interesting scholarship offer > Crashing Through Award for Independent Travel > > Sendero Group would like to encourage and recognize independent travel > exploits by blind people as exemplified by the book about Mike May, > Crashing Through > by Robert Kurson. A portion of every Sendero GPS sale will go into an > annual scholarship fund to be awarded to the applicant with the most > impressive travel > adventure for the year. > > The first application period opens September 1, 2008 and all > applications must be submitted by February 15, 2009. Fill out the > application form below to > express your interest and to receive further instructions. > > We anticipate a $2,500 award for one person. This may change depending > upon the quality of applicants and/or cosponsors. > > The Crashing Through award is open to applicants from any country, 29 > years of age or less. The funds can be used for, school, technology, > travel or whatever > the winner chooses. Sendero has the option to use any of the stories > and related materials submitted by any applicant. > > We are looking for independent travel. Travel with sighted friends, > colleagues or family is fine as long as the blind applicant is > demonstrating independent > travel, a leader rather than a follower. In other words, a cruise > would not be rated highly in terms of independence. > > We want to hear how the applicant's orientation and mobility tools and > techniques are used. It doesn't matter if one is using a cane or a dog > but more about > what one is doing, sailing, hiking, exploring a city and the like. Use > of GPS is not required but will weigh in the applicants favor if used. > > Independence, innovation and uniqueness are the qualities we will be > looking for when we evaluate applications. Documenting the travel > through photos and/or > audio recordings will be very helpful. This documentation along with > the written travel story should be the bulk of the scholarship > submission. Strong > composition skills will be necessary to convey the travel story best. > > Please spread the word so photos, audio and a journal can be captured > on any upcoming trips. If a trip isn't planned before the February > 2009 deadline, > start planning for next summer and the 2010 Crashing Through award. > > There are three components to your Crashing Through travel story submission > > list of 3 items > 1. The essay about your adventure. (50pts) You should address the > following questions: Where did you go? Who did you go with? Why was > this trip significant > for you personally, and for people you met? What did you learn about > yourself? How do you think this adventure will affect your future? 50 > points will > be awarded depending on how your essay addresses these questions as > well as the following items. > list of 5 items nesting level 1 > . Use of alternative travel tools and techniques > . Uniqueness of your adventure > . Difficulty of adventure > . Degree of independence from sighted assistance, solo to group travel > . Composition quality of essay > list end nesting level 1 > 2. Multimedia files, to include images, audio, and video. (25pts) > 3. Quality of References, two references are required, at least one > from a teacher, (25pts). Note that your references account for one > quarter of the total > points. Your letters of reference should answer all of the following > questions: > list of 5 items nesting level 1 > . How do you know this person? What is your relationship to them? > . What did this person do during the time that you have known them > that makes them stand out from the rest? > . Comment on this person's O&M skills and spirit of adventure > . Where do you see this person in five years? > . What shared personality traits do you see between this person and > the characters in either Crashing Through or A Sense of the World? > list end nesting level 1 > list end > > The award selection committee so far includes: Mike May, Robert > Kurson, Bryan Bashin, Jerry Kuns and Jennifer May from > Crashing Through > and Jason Roberts author of > A Sense of the World > . Applicants would do well to read both of these books before > submitting an essay. > > To begin the application process, fill out the following form. You > will be contacted by a Sendero Representative with further > instructions on how to submit > the full application, see the three parts of the application above for > requirements. > > table with 2 columns and 11 rows > * Your Name: > * Your Name > > * Age: > * Age > > * Email Address: > * Email address > > * Street Address: > * Street Address > > * City: > * City > > * State or Province: > * State or Province > > * Zip or Postal Code: > * Zip or Postal Code > > * Country: > * Country > > * Phone Number: > Phone Number > > By checking this box, I agree that any application materials I submit > can be used by Sendero as they wish. > By checking this box, I agree that any application materials that I > submit can be used by Sendero as they wish. > Submit Form > table end To subscribe or to leave the list, or to set other subscription options, go to www.freelists.org/list/real-eyes From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 03:04:04 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:04:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: > I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to > private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > > oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have > their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and > don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools > (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some > way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to > a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision > teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to > talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going > through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do > something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they > aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a > school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and > research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>> >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>> >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>> >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed > u >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu > ltants.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From hfurney at bgsu.edu Sun Nov 9 03:33:06 2008 From: hfurney at bgsu.edu (Hannah G Furney) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:33:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> , Message-ID: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB22436368CD9EA@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Hi. I went to a private Christian school for junior high, and the first week of my freshmen year. My dad had to pay $15 a week for them to enlarged papaers ontop of the tution that he had to pay. I had eight classes a day. That was too many classes fro me to handle. The first week of my 9th grade year the district that was providing transportation for me to that school stopped providing transportation. I also went home, did homewrork, ate dinner, and then did more homewrok, and then off to bed. I had friends there, I loved the Christian education, and I also loved the uniforms. Then I left the first week of my freshmen year. I wish they could of provided me with more accommadations. Hannah Furney Phi Mu Fraternity Cru Colleges Against Cancer Active Christians Today ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Franandah Damstra [fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: > I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to > private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > > oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have > their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and > don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools > (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some > way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to > a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision > teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to > talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going > through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do > something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they > aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a > school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and > research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>> >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>> >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>> >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed > u >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu > ltants.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hfurney%40bgsu.edu From freedmas at stolaf.edu Sun Nov 9 04:25:57 2008 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:25:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <922c02e40811082025n437b7b2br7806e44c3739450e@mail.gmail.com> It sounds like the sight that you do have is unstable and/or not enough to be useful. Eye exams can prove that, and so can your experiences of strain and difficulty (which should not be dismissed as invalid or symptoms of being dramatic). Yes, being positive is great (I'm known even for being too optimistic at times), but your situation is sort of like someone with an illness not receiving proper treatment. A person in such a case could be positive, but he would still have to deal with and react to unnecessary pain, trouble, etc. Anyway... As far as getting Braille books through something other than public school, you could try state services (though they can be difficult to work with, and sometimes things take awhile). In the meantime, what do people think about the idea of you using readers? Pax Christi, Sydney On 11/8/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you > have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The > thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it > ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public > school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need > braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my > parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian > education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be > like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I > have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying > because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, > your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if > you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't > work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't > think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your > best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just > drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told > them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience > is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? > > On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >> >> Pax Christi, >> Sydney >> >> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>> luckier than you know. >>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>> extra time on tests... >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>> also brailled. >>>>>Rania, >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>> to yours. >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>> my TVI >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>> tests. >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>> though. >>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>> asked to >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>> academic >>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>> more effective >>>>>> with braille. >>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>> handouts, >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >> u >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >> ltants.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From dwhill at epix.net Sun Nov 9 05:19:05 2008 From: dwhill at epix.net (D.W. Hill) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:19:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists Message-ID: *** Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of Media Relations Donna Hill: dwhill at epix.net Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go check it out is: http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html Thanks for your help, Donna *** Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille literacy among blind kids. Take the survey at http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html or download a Word Doc at: www.padnfb.org and send to me at: dwhill at epix.net Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e mail. Thanks, Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind 570-833-2708 dwhill at epix.net -- For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill Apple I-Tunes phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind www.padnfb.org From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 05:53:16 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 23:53:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <49167ad0.27b38c0a.772a.1511@mx.google.com> Dear Franandiah, You need to reply to and contact the lady that I connected you with locally. She really is the best in the nation, and she will help you get what you need. You need to help her help you by contacting her and helping her know the information she asked for. She knows the situation in every county and every teacher in the state and all the laws and all the braillists and transcriptionists. She can help you better if she knows who she is dealing with. So please contact her. Sincerely, Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Franandah Damstra Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: > I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to > private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > > oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have > their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and > don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools > (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some > way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to > a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision > teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to > talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going > through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do > something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they > aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a > school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and > research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >> luckier than you know. >> >> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>> extra time on tests... >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rania" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>> also brailled. >>>>Rania, >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>> to yours. >>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>> my TVI >>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>> tests. >>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>> though. >>> >>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>> asked to >>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>> academic >>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>> more effective >>>>> with braille. >>> >>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>> >>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>> handouts, >>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>> il04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed > u >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu > ltants.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From henryfvasquez at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 05:56:38 2008 From: henryfvasquez at gmail.com (Henry Vasquez) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:56:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Accomendations for school Message-ID: Sunflower Hello! My name is Henry. Fernanda you aren't the only one that has had trouble in school. Just hang in there and maybe you can express how you feel with the Faculty, staff or teachers. Fernanda, ask your parents to setup a meeting between all that are involved and express to them all of the troubles you are having. Fernanda, lastly you can contact Recording for the Blind they have a big selection of books. I work there. If you can't afford there initial sign up fee tell them so, and they would wave it for you. Fernanda, I can understand the money difficultys your family is having, I live in South Los Angeles and also had the same troubles. I'm not sure or not if you mentioned this but do you have a Rehab, Counselor? If, you don't get one! I no that they are kind of slow but if you work it correctly you can get most of the services you need. For example, Books, a computer, Braille Note, a Plex talk recorder two, or even a Victor Stream. when I first, lost my eye sight, they sent me to two different Schools for the Blind for Orientation training maybe that would be a good step for you. people on this list can give you names or suggestions which ones are the best. Fernanda, please try to keep your spirits up and try your best, there is always a light at the end of the tunnel. Every baby step you take forward eventually will lead you to where you want to go. As for college, I would hope that you would re consider that. If I can be of any inspiration I attend a University, and maintain a four point Oh, grade point average. and I am totally Blind. I am also on the way of graduating, and becoming a Drug and Alcohol Rehabilatation Counselor. Fernanda, with in the next 2 years I will be opening up my own NON Profit. Fernanda, if you decide to attend College the people there most of the time are very helpful and there are many services that you can take advantage of. At that age people are more mature then High School. If you need any further information or advice you could E Mail me off list at henryfvasquez at gmail.com Good Luck! Henry. Henry Vasquez. YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. Live life as if there is no tomorrow. Laugh as if no one is listening. Dance as if no one is watching. Love as if you have never been hurt. SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sunbannA.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9749 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sunflower Bkgrd.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17147 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 06:49:45 2008 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:49:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Curious about a fill-in monocular idea Message-ID: <73099.1505.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com> What I mean by fill in is this: If you haven't the bucks to buy one and you are on hold from a foundation for some reason, why not try this? For those who can get along with it, why not use a parent's video camera? Many of the newer cameras (particularly those with hard drives or flash memory based recording) are designed in such a way where you could use it as a monocular of sorts without recording anything to memory. The one I saw today, for instance, was designed to record to SD memory cards. There was no card in the camera, but that didn't stop me from trying it out. It was a great camera for this idea - the digital zoom was 700x (no joke) and it's so tiny you can put it in your pocket. Also, depending on your required monocular prescription, it may be about the same price (at Best Buy they wanted $300; $260 if you get one that's already been opened). So, you get to kill two birds with one stone by having a video camera that doubles as a crude monocular solution. Thoughts? From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 13:21:27 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:21:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <922c02e40811082025n437b7b2br7806e44c3739450e@mail.gmail.com> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <922c02e40811082025n437b7b2br7806e44c3739450e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811090521m6f3dd85axa4955c8e2306a0ce@mail.gmail.com> I went to Catholic school from fifth through eighth grade and somehow got braille. But I am totally blind. We somehow worked it out so that my vision teacher set foot on the private school campus and we had the same church and state crap going on as with Franandiah's case. But the difference is that I have no usefuvision. With Franandiah's case, the following should happen: 1. An eye exam and E chart screening. That should prove what we're expecting that she doesn't have enough useful vision to read print. 2. Enlargement of materials or use of Braille in a private school. In the worst case scenario, the next step should occur and it is 3. Switch to a publich school. I think Christian schools should be a lot more Christ-like in providing education of people with disabilities, but with the materials they need. Besides, in this case, this isn't someone doing their Christian duty. My parents were actually more interested in getting accommodations, and it's a good thing this happened. But think of it this way: if this school isn't doing their Christian duty to help Franandiah read what she must, they don't deserve her parents' money or her business. Public high schools are beter but may have some cons as well. But at least she can get more accommodations. Good luck. Beth On 11/8/08, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: > It sounds like the sight that you do have is unstable and/or not > enough to be useful. Eye exams can prove that, and so can your > experiences of strain and difficulty (which should not be dismissed as > invalid or symptoms of being dramatic). Yes, being positive is great > (I'm known even for being too optimistic at times), but your situation > is sort of like someone with an illness not receiving proper > treatment. A person in such a case could be positive, but he would > still have to deal with and react to unnecessary pain, trouble, etc. > Anyway... As far as getting Braille books through something other > than public school, you could try state services (though they can be > difficult to work with, and sometimes things take awhile). In the > meantime, what do people think about the idea of you using readers? > > Pax Christi, > Sydney > > On 11/8/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >> >> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>> >>> Pax Christi, >>> Sydney >>> >>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>> luckier than you know. >>>> >>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>> u >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>> ltants.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Nov 9 20:39:46 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:39:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <20081107223632.JYTV24810.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <006501c942ab$4e46bf70$0201a8c0@Serene> One thing, though. This isn't happening just cause she's in private school. Even if she were in public school, I'm sure somebody, including the Commission for the Blind, would be telling her to use the vision she still has! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Hi Franandah, I would seriously sit down with the principal of the school > and try to discuss your needs with him or her. Unfortunately, private > schools aren't required to provide any accommodations, but if you like > going to that school (aside from the lack of assistance you're getting) > then I'd talk to them. Make them give you what you need! This is > rediculous. Otherwise, as much as I hate to say it, you should change > schools. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Franandah Damstra" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:12 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>At least there are some people who understand what I am going >>through...Everyone tells me "You have some sight so use it!" I >>honestly wish I was totatly blind so I can get the help I > deserve. I >>would do anything to get braille, I just got back my report card > and I >>got an E in maths...I'm so slow and can't comprehend what is > going on >>because it is so visual! I need help desperatly and I will do > ANYTHING >>to get it! > >>On 11/7/08, hannah wrote: >>> I totally agree... > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Sarah Jevnikar" >>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>>Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:02:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>>>I third it. That's ridiculous and unacceptable. They're >>> violating your right >>>>to an education and that's criminal. > >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>Of Beth >>>>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:23 AM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>>>I second that one, Antonio and Franandiah. >>>>Beth > >>>>On 11/6/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hello Franandiah, > >>>>> There is no officially recognized point at which braille is the >>> preferred >>>>> method. In other words, there is no absolute test that says one >>> should use >>>>> braille if her sight is 20/500 or worst in the better eye, and >>> the like. > >>>>> Your vision, 20/800, is very very, very limited. A good friend >>> of mine had >>>>> 20/200, and she knew and used braille when necessary. She is >>> very low >>>>> vision, and I can't imagine someone four times blinder than her >>> not using >>>>> braille. > >>>>> You know you need braille, but your school will not provide it. >>> The simple >>>>> fact you can not stand to read print, that you cry every day >>> from >>>>straining >>>>> to read what you can't see, that you have no depth perception, >>> and no >>>>> peripheral vision would be more than enough to warrant using >>> braille. > >>>>> It's pretty clear to me that your school is refusing to provide >>> you a >>>>> service you need to continue your education. don't let it >>> happen. > >>>>> I am providing you with the e-mail and phone number to the NFB >>> President >>>>in >>>>> your state in a separate, private message. Get in touch. > >>>>> I am a Christian myself, but do not think attending a Christian >>> school is >>>>> necessary to maintain your faith. If you end up not receiving >>> services, >>>>you >>>>> should either leave the school, or pressure them into providing >>> you with >>>>the >>>>> right to read. > >>>>> The bottom line for them is that braille is expensive, and they >>> will do >>>>what >>>>> it takes not to spend that kind of money. Again: don't let that >>> happen. > >>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>>>I live in Michigan. The problem is, because I go to a Christian >>>>>> school, public services cannot do much because of the separation >>> of >>>>>> church and state. So, I'm really stuck. My question is, what >>> type of >>>>>> vision loss is needed to state that braille should be used as >>> the >>>>>> dominate medium instead of large print? > >>>>>> On 11/5/08, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>>>>> Franandiah, >>>>>>> This is a crying shame. >>>>>>> What state are you in? Perhaps there's someone on the list from >>> the same >>>>>>> area or perhaps we can network you with some resources to get >>> you what >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> need. > >>>>>>> Dezman >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Franandiah Damstra" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:11 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL >>> ARE >>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but >>> that is >>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. >>> My >>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either >>> preferal >>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>> have >>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I >>> would do >>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>> longer, I >>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all >>> are >>>>>>>> luckier than you know. > >>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > >>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>> though. > >>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>> with braille. > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? > >>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >>> natic01%40g >>>>mail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d >>> ezman%40gma >>>>il.com > > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa >>> natic01%40g >>>>mail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae >>> s%40nbp.org > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gm >>>>ail.com > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev >>> nikar%40uto >>>>ronto.ca > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa > natic01%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Nov 9 20:45:16 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:45:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books for you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where books get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you > have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The > thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it > ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public > school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need > braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my > parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian > education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be > like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I > have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying > because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, > your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if > you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't > work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't > think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your > best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just > drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told > them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience > is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? > > On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >> >> Pax Christi, >> Sydney >> >> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>> luckier than you know. >>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>> extra time on tests... >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>> also brailled. >>>>>Rania, >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>> to yours. >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>> my TVI >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>> tests. >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>> though. >>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>> asked to >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>> academic >>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>> more effective >>>>>> with braille. >>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>> handouts, >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >> u >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >> ltants.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 9 22:33:26 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:33:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: What is the fee to get a book brailled? How many copies do you have to send to bookshare? How long does bookshare take to send the book back to you? Albert> From: serenacucco at verizon.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:45:16 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books for > you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where books > get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and pleasure > books. The websight is www.bookshare.org.> > Serena> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > > > Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you> > have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The> > thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it> > ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public> > school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need> > braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my> > parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian> > education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be> > like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I> > have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying> > because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh,> > your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if> > you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't> > work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't> > think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your> > best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just> > drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told> > them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience> > is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do?> >> > On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote:> >> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to> >> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind.> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On> >> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman> >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>> >>> >> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have> >> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and> >> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools> >> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some> >> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to> >> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision> >> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to> >> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going> >> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do> >> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they> >> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a> >> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and> >> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list.> >>> >> Pax Christi,> >> Sydney> >>> >> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote:> >>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE> >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get> >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is> >>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My> >>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal> >>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have> >>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do> >>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I> >>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are> >>> luckier than you know.> >>>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote:> >>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get> >>>> extra time on tests...> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were> >>>> also brailled.> >>>>>Rania,> >>>>>----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM> >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all,> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience> >>>> to yours.> >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and> >>>> my TVI> >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on> >>>> tests.> >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially> >>>> though.> >>>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was> >>>> asked to> >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other> >>>> academic> >>>>>> impact. So my questions.> >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use?> >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been> >>>> more effective> >>>>>> with braille.> >>>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not?> >>>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille> >>>> handouts,> >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests.> >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks> >>>>>> Ashley> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>> info for> >>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma> >>>> il04%40gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________> >>>>>nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>> for nabs-l:> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli> >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>>> nabs-l:> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g> >> mail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> nabs-l mailing list> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>> nabs-l:> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed> >> u> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu> >> ltants.com> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 9 22:39:01 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 14:39:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Message-ID: <495818.84509.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion.   At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you?   As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is quicker  and there is less risk of spilling, etc.  I am, however, reminded of the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience.  My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where  the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me.  This, then, set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts.  And if we serve ourselves at home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same things.   Just some thoughts to consider.   Harry   From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Nov 10 00:43:18 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:43:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com><007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <002101c942cd$538a20e0$0201a8c0@Serene> I honestly don't know any of these answers. I'm sure the bookshare sight has them, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Yoo" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > What is the fee to get a book brailled? How many copies do you have to > send to bookshare? How long does bookshare take to send the book back to > you? Albert> From: serenacucco at verizon.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: > Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:45:16 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in > public school> > If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will > Braille books for > you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a > service where books > get scanned and then put on the websight. They have > textbooks and pleasure > books. The websight is www.bookshare.org.> > > Serena> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 > 10:04 PM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > > > > Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you> > > have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. > The> > thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it> > > ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public> > > school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need> > braille"? > I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my> > parents. All > my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian> > education and > informant." But, they never though of what it would be> > like for a child > with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I> > have no friends, I > get mocked, and I get up every morning crying> > because I don't' want to > go back to school. My parents just say "Oh,> > your being so over > dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if> > you were positive > about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't> > work that way > though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't> > think I am > working hard enough. How can you work harder than your> > best? How do you > react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just> > > drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told> > > them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience> > > is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do?> >> > On 11/8/08, > Rachel Becker wrote:> >> I know someone who > went to private school in Philadelphia and went to> >> private school and > he got Braille services. He's totally blind.> >>> >> -----Original > Message-----> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On> >> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM> >> To: National Association > of Blind Students mailing list> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in > public school> >>> >>> >> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that > private schools don't have> >> their own vision staff, braille > transcribers, equipment, etc. and> >> don't have access to the staff, > equipment, etc. from public schools> >> (at least this was true for > Arizona). However, > thre should be some> >> way to still get services. For example, a good > friend of mine went to> >> a private school but received Braille services > and time with a vision> >> teacher through the public school where I went. > Another thought is to> >> talk to the people at your school and tell them > what you are going> >> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't > willing to do> >> something or to find a way to get something done, then, > well, they> >> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can > understand a> >> school not having money or resources, but in that case, > effort and> >> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me > off list.> >>> >> Pax Christi,> >> Sydney> >>> >> On 11/5/08, Franandiah > Damstra wrote:> >>> Hello everyone. I'm new > here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE> >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small > christian private schools, and I get> >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" > assignments and extended tests, but that is> >>> > about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My> >>> > sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal> >>> > vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have> >>> > some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do> >>> > anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I> >>> > go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are> >>> > luckier than you know.> >>>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah > wrote:> >>>> All of my materials are > brailled or on audio, but I don't get> >>>> extra time on tests...> >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Rania" > >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list"> >>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 > 16:34:38 -0500> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > >>>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were> > >>>> also brailled.> > >>>>>Rania,> >>>>>----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Ashley > >>>>>Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association > >>>>>of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>> >>>>>Sent: > >>>>>Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM> >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] > >>>>>accomodations in public school> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all,> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my > >>>>>experience> >>>> to yours.> >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I > >>>>>got braille and audio books and> >>>> my TVI> >>>>>> was good at > >>>>>giving braille handouts and I got extra time on> >>>> tests.> >>>>>> > >>>>>As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially> >>>> > >>>>>though.> >>>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with > >>>>>disabilities class, I was> >>>> asked to> >>>>>> present about visual > >>>>>impairment and accomodations and other> >>>> academic> >>>>>> impact. > >>>>>So my questions.> >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use?> >>>>>> > >>>>>2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been> >>>> > >>>>>more > effective> >>>>>> with braille.> >>>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been > done that was not?> >>>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: > large print or braille> >>>> handouts,> >>>>>> audio texts, and extended > time on tests.> >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks> >>>>>> Ashley> >>>>>> > _______________________________________________> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>> To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>> info for> > >>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma> >>>> > il04%40gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________> >>>>>nabs-l mailing > list> >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>> for > nabs-l:> > >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli> > >>>> > cious%40suddenlink.net> >>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________> >>>> nabs-l mailing list> > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>> To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>>> > nabs-l:> >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g> > >> mail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________> >>> nabs-l mailing list> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>> > nabs-l:> >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed> > >> u> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> > nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> > nabs-l:> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu> > >> ltants.com> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> > >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> > nabs-l:> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing > list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l:> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows > Live > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Nov 10 00:47:26 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <495818.84509.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01c942cd$e76effb0$0201a8c0@Serene> Hi Harry I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving the breakfast buffet to everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello everyone, With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same things. Just some thoughts to consider. Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From hope.paulos at maine.edu Mon Nov 10 01:16:48 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:16:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Message-ID: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi. I do the same thing. With immediate family, I serve myself. At family gatherings, I usually have someone serve me. Samewith buffets. I go up with them, of course, but we usually have the same thing anyway. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >Hi Harry >I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's >important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, >however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same >things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving >the breakfast buffet to everyone. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >Hello everyone, >With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. >At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you >serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? >As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family >gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is >quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of >the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to >serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, >set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. >'m interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at >home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about >buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same >things. >Just some thoughts to consider. >Harry >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 02:17:20 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:17:20 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind Message-ID: I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the money needed for this project? For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing the street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. Thanks to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool already in their pockets - their cell phone. The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while wearing glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, many conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more likely to be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, professor of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that the blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel while crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on how to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in the middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every light red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns when it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them for a few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic victim." To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost effective, it simplifies the existing system. Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre provide help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. However, the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so at any given time, the control box knows each state. Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet over power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have established dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the University Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research Council and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. It's cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." If you would like more information, or to speak with the people involved, please let me know. 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Details Gmail view: standard | basic HTML Learn more (c)2008 Google - Terms - Gmail Blog - Google Home From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Nov 10 02:35:33 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:35:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school Message-ID: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> Hi Frandandiah, I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as their Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even providing adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you switch to public school? Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading lots of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use a service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure books; www.bookshare.org. Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets and paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, enlarge it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. How about looking for audio books through other sources such as Amazon.com or audible.com. You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: National library service for the blind; this is run through the state although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape books, called talking books. American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org I think they record books and sell products. American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. HTH, Ashley Ashley H Bramlett Undergraduate Student Marymount University From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 03:18:19 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:18:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811091918h129efd8ei2ec858684e4e4079@mail.gmail.com> I get served at family gatherings, and Mom serves all of us at home. Mom's a good cook for that matter. She makes THE BEST apple pies with those big apples I used to sell at marching band. Beth On 11/9/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi. I do the same thing. With immediate family, I serve myself. > At family gatherings, I usually have someone serve me. Samewith > buffets. I go up with them, of course, but we usually have the > same thing anyway. > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Serena" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>Hi Harry > >>I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think > it's >>important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on > buffet lines, >>however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much > the same >>things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a > survor serving >>the breakfast buffet to everyone. > > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Harry Hogue" >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>Hello everyone, >>With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for > discussion. > >>At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate > family, do you >>serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate > for you? > >>As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate > at family >>gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply > because it is >>quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, > reminded of >>the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa > Rica >>experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made > sure I knew >>where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 > years old to >>serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. > This, then, >>set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with > getting food. >>'m interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve > ourselves at >>home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent > about >>buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're > getting rice, >>chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of > the same >>things. > >>Just some thoughts to consider. > >>Harry > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 03:22:01 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:22:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what blind people actually use. Beth On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the > money needed for this project? > > For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, > crossing the > street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. > Thanks > to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired > individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool > already in their pockets - their cell phone. > > The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American > Foundation for > the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while > wearing glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual > impairment, many conditions - including visual noise, walking at > night > and irregular intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. > > Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in > Moscow, > Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. > > "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent > more > likely to > > be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard > Wall, > professor > > of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty > apparent that > the > > blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b > > The new technology utilizes features already available in many > cellular > > phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite > (GPS) > > functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired > pedestrians. > > Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the > crossing > > signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. > > Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of > travel while > crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, > nothing > happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning > activates > alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides > directions on > how to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow > end up > in the middle of the intersection, the system automatically would > turn > every light red, stopping traffic and averting a potential > disaster. > > "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal > patterns > when it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather > disrupt > them for a few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance > assists a > traffic victim." > > To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those > who > need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. > > The system requires more than software, however. It also requires > the > installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the > country. > Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is > cost > effective, it simplifies the existing system. > > Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre > provide > help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. > However, > the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount > of > wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each > signal so > at any given time, the control box knows each state. > > Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both > already > required to power the signals. It uses a technology called > Ethernet over > power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power > lines. > > The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have > established dates to deliver the engineering and expect field > trials to > commence in June. They are building prototypes supported by funds > from > the University Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher > Education > Research Council and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, > who > currently makes the accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and > talk > for the handicapped. > > "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These > devices > actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're > using > existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. > It's > cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it > can be > immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the > country." > > If you would like more information, or to speak with the people > involved, please let me know. > > Ken Kingery > > Science/Research Writer > > University of Idaho > > Office: 208-885-9156 > > Cell: 614-570-3942 > > --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >> (1) Reply (via web post) < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >> | Start a new topic < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> > Messages < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >> | Files < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Photos < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >> | Links < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Database < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Polls < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Members < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> > To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to: > LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > MARKETPLACE > ________________________________ > > >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods < > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c-/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> > Yahoo! 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Groups < > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pd7b6pp/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323196/D=groups/S=1705189052:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=4g9FDkLaX9c-/J=1226173318658236/A=5170416/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/specialKgroup> > > Learn how others > > are losing pounds. > > . > > __,_._,___ > > Quick Reply > > To: Sharona Silverman > More Reply Options > > Send > Save Draft > Include quoted text with reply > > « Back to Inbox > Archive > Report Spam > Delete > More Actions... > Go > ‹ Newer > 6 of 114 > Older › > > Search accurately with > operators > including from: to: subject:. > You are currently using 85 MB (1%) of your 7261 MB > > Last account activity: 1 hour ago on this computer. > Details > > Gmail view: > standard | > basic HTML > Learn more > > (c)2008 Google - > Terms - > Gmail Blog - > Google Home > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 03:24:44 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:24:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <002101c942cd$538a20e0$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> <002101c942cd$538a20e0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811091924t40af673l81cf56849d26185d@mail.gmail.com> I don't tink students are obligated to pay fees to get books Brailled. Beth On 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > I honestly don't know any of these answers. I'm sure the bookshare sight > has them, though. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> >> What is the fee to get a book brailled? How many copies do you have to >> send to bookshare? How long does bookshare take to send the book back to >> you? Albert> From: serenacucco at verizon.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: >> Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:45:16 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in >> public school> > If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will >> Braille books for > you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a >> service where books > get scanned and then put on the websight. They have >> textbooks and pleasure > books. The websight is www.bookshare.org.> > >> Serena> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 >> 10:04 PM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > > > >> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you> > >> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. >> The> > thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it> > >> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public> > >> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need> > braille"? >> >> I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my> > parents. All >> my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian> > education and >> informant." But, they never though of what it would be> > like for a child >> >> with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I> > have no friends, I >> >> get mocked, and I get up every morning crying> > because I don't' want to >> go back to school. My parents just say "Oh,> > your being so over >> dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if> > you were positive >> about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't> > work that way >> though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't> > think I am >> working hard enough. How can you work harder than your> > best? How do you >> >> react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just> > >> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told> > >> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience> > >> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do?> >> > On 11/8/08, >> Rachel Becker wrote:> >> I know someone who >> >> went to private school in Philadelphia and went to> >> private school and >> he got Braille services. He's totally blind.> >>> >> -----Original >> Message-----> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On> >> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM> >> To: National >> Association >> of Blind Students mailing list> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in >> public school> >>> >>> >> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that >> private schools don't have> >> their own vision staff, braille >> transcribers, equipment, etc. and> >> don't have access to the staff, >> equipment, etc. from public schools> >> (at least this was true for >> Arizona). However, >> thre should be some> >> way to still get services. For example, a good >> friend of mine went to> >> a private school but received Braille services >> and time with a vision> >> teacher through the public school where I went. >> >> Another thought is to> >> talk to the people at your school and tell them >> what you are going> >> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't >> >> willing to do> >> something or to find a way to get something done, then, >> well, they> >> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can >> understand a> >> school not having money or resources, but in that case, >> effort and> >> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me >> off list.> >>> >> Pax Christi,> >> Sydney> >>> >> On 11/5/08, Franandiah >> Damstra wrote:> >>> Hello everyone. I'm new >> here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE> >>> LUCKY! I go to a very small >> christian private schools, and I get> >>> nothing! I get "enlarged" >> assignments and extended tests, but that is> >>> >> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My> >>> >> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal> >>> >> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have> >>> >> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do> >>> >> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I> >>> >> >> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are> >>> >> luckier than you know.> >>>> >>> On 11/4/08, hannah >> wrote:> >>>> All of my materials are >> brailled or on audio, but I don't get> >>>> extra time on tests...> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Rania" >> >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students >> >> mailing list"> >>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 >> 16:34:38 -0500> >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >> >> >>>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were> >> >> >>>> also brailled.> >> >>>>>Rania,> >>>>>----- Original Message -----> >>>>>From: "Ashley >> >>>>>Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association >> >>>>>of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>> >>>>>Sent: >> >>>>>Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM> >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] >> >>>>>accomodations in public school> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all,> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >> >>>>>experience> >>>> to yours.> >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I >> >>>>>got braille and audio books and> >>>> my TVI> >>>>>> was good at >> >>>>>giving braille handouts and I got extra time on> >>>> tests.> >>>>>> >> >>>>>As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially> >>>> >> >>>>>though.> >>>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with >> >>>>>disabilities class, I was> >>>> asked to> >>>>>> present about visual >> >>>>> >> >>>>>impairment and accomodations and other> >>>> academic> >>>>>> impact. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>So my questions.> >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use?> >>>>>> >> >>>>>2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been> >>>> >> >>>>>more >> effective> >>>>>> with braille.> >>>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been >> done that was not?> >>>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: >> large print or braille> >>>> handouts,> >>>>>> audio texts, and extended >> time on tests.> >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks> >>>>>> Ashley> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>> To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>> info for> >> >>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma> >>>> >> il04%40gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>>_______________________________________________> >>>>>nabs-l mailing >> >> list> >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>> for >> nabs-l:> >> >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli> >> >>>> >> cious%40suddenlink.net> >>>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________> >>>> nabs-l mailing list> >> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>> To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>>> >> nabs-l:> >>>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g> >> >> >> mail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >>> nabs-l mailing list> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >>> >> nabs-l:> >>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed> >> >> >> u> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> >> nabs-l:> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu> >> >> >> ltants.com> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________> >> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> >> nabs-l:> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com> >> >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l >> mailing >> list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l:> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > >> > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows >> Live >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From blindhistory at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 04:41:32 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:41:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Usually I serve myself at family gatherings. The times where I don't is when everyone else in my family is getting served by someone (ie a pot with soup and it is easier to serve everyone from one spot). Other than that I serve myself. I serve myself at buffets too and just have someone tell me what is what. On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi. I do the same thing. With immediate family, I serve myself. At > family gatherings, I usually have someone serve me. Samewith buffets. I go > up with them, of course, but we usually have the same thing anyway. > Hope and Beignet > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> Date sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> > > Hi Harry >> > > I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >> > it's > >> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> > buffet lines, > >> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> > the same > >> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> > survor serving > >> the breakfast buffet to everyone. >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> > > > Hello everyone, >> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >> > discussion. > > At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >> > family, do you > >> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >> > for you? > > As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> > at family > >> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >> > because it is > >> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >> > reminded of > >> the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >> > Rica > >> experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made >> > sure I knew > >> where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 >> > years old to > >> serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. >> > This, then, > >> set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with >> > getting food. > >> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> > ourselves at > >> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >> > about > >> buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're >> > getting rice, > >> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> > the same > >> things. >> > > Just some thoughts to consider. >> > > Harry >> > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for > >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> > co%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> > os%40maine.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 06:47:09 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:47:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. Beth On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Frandandiah, > > I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in > private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as their > Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even providing > adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private > schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you > switch to public school? > > Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" > further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you > have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading lots > of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, > crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. > > Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. > > The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some > ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use a > service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure books; > www.bookshare.org. > Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets and > paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, enlarge > it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. > How about looking for audio books through other sources such as Amazon.com > or audible.com. > > You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: > National library service for the blind; this is run through the state > although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape books, > called talking books. > > American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org > I think they record books and sell products. > > American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. > > HTH, > Ashley > > Ashley H Bramlett > Undergraduate Student > Marymount University > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 13:52:41 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:52:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock some sense into my stupid teachers... On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. > Beth > > On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi Frandandiah, >> >> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in >> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >> their >> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >> providing >> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private >> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >> switch to public school? >> >> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" >> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you >> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading >> lots >> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, >> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >> >> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >> >> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some >> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use a >> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >> books; >> www.bookshare.org. >> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets and >> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, enlarge >> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as Amazon.com >> or audible.com. >> >> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape books, >> called talking books. >> >> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >> I think they record books and sell products. >> >> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >> >> HTH, >> Ashley >> >> Ashley H Bramlett >> Undergraduate Student >> Marymount University >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 13:58:31 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:58:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh my gosh! This is so for me! I want to go into voice acting when I'm an adult, my dream is to act in video games and anime. :-D On 11/9/08, D.W. Hill wrote: > *** > > Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's > Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two > projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of > young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their > thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of > Media Relations Donna Hill: > > dwhill at epix.net > > > > Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate > in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go > check it out is: > http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html > Thanks for your help, Donna > > *** > > Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar > since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous > blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over > fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other > minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the > National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people > pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about > the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. > > > > Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a > severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their > performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes > musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers > and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, > whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still > pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. > > > > PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing > arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre > compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. > > > > Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars > will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, > such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille > literacy among blind kids. > > > > Take the survey at > > http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html > > > > or download a Word Doc at: > > www.padnfb.org > > > > and send to me at: > > dwhill at epix.net > > > > Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e mail. > > Thanks, > > Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations > > Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind > > 570-833-2708 > > dwhill at epix.net > > > > > > -- > For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: > http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill > > Apple I-Tunes > > phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 > > Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind > www.padnfb.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 14:00:16 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:00:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] special message and prayers for help In-Reply-To: <6E124647E76D4CBBA9F87AF91416D610@Ashley> References: <4383d01d0811060544k515fbc14k8c0e162a3414f6ad@mail.gmail.com> <6E124647E76D4CBBA9F87AF91416D610@Ashley> Message-ID: That is crazy, I'll be praying for her! On 11/6/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > > This is sad. I'll certainly pray for her. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" > ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:44 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] special message and prayers for help > > >> Hi everyone. >> THis is Beth. >> I would like to tell you guys that there is something pretty urgent >> that one of my friends told me about. A woman in Arizona is >> requesting money for cancer treatments. Andrea Mustin is a Native >> American on a reservation in Arizona, and she is in dire need of money >> for cancer treatments. She lost all her health benefits when she lost >> her job. For more information go to this link. >> http://www.geocities.com/amustain1/ >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3591 (20081106) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 14:01:07 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:01:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: > I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and > more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >> to braille though. >> >> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>> Braille now. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>> school. >>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>> were extremely effective. >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>> also brailled. >>>>>Rania, >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>> to yours. >>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>> my TVI >>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>> tests. >>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>> though. >>>> >>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>> asked to >>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>> academic >>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>> more effective >>>>>> with braille. >>>> >>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>> >>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>> handouts, >>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>> ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 14:29:48 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:29:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081110011552.YELE15470.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811091918h129efd8ei2ec858684e4e4079@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000b01c94340$ca37eb00$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> My mom also serves everyone food but if am at a buffet I will serve my self. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >I get served at family gatherings, and Mom serves all of us at home. > Mom's a good cook for that matter. She makes THE BEST apple pies with > those big apples I used to sell at marching band. > Beth > > On 11/9/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >> Hi. I do the same thing. With immediate family, I serve myself. >> At family gatherings, I usually have someone serve me. Samewith >> buffets. I go up with them, of course, but we usually have the >> same thing anyway. >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Serena" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>Hi Harry >> >>>I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >> it's >>>important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet lines, >>>however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the same >>>things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor serving >>>the breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Harry Hogue" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>Hello everyone, >>>With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >> discussion. >> >>>At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >> family, do you >>>serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >> for you? >> >>>As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at family >>>gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >> because it is >>>quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >> reminded of >>>the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >> Rica >>>experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made >> sure I knew >>>where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 >> years old to >>>serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. >> This, then, >>>set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with >> getting food. >>>'m interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves at >>>home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >> about >>>buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're >> getting rice, >>>chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the same >>>things. >> >>>Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>Harry >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 15:09:26 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:09:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811100709r1b347366k12ba9ebc9dd248a2@mail.gmail.com> Whoa. Video games? I heard about this one called Jade Empire that has a made-up language in it. The language is supposed to sound like Chinese or something. It's called Tho Fan. Anyone heard of it? Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Oh my gosh! This is so for me! I want to go into voice acting when I'm > an adult, my dream is to act in video games and anime. :-D > > On 11/9/08, D.W. Hill wrote: >> *** >> >> Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's >> Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two >> projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of >> young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their >> thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of >> Media Relations Donna Hill: >> >> dwhill at epix.net >> >> >> >> Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate >> in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go >> check it out is: >> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >> Thanks for your help, Donna >> >> *** >> >> Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar >> since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous >> blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over >> fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other >> minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the >> National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people >> pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about >> the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. >> >> >> >> Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a >> severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their >> performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes >> musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers >> and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, >> whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still >> pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. >> >> >> >> PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing >> arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre >> compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. >> >> >> >> Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars >> will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, >> such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille >> literacy among blind kids. >> >> >> >> Take the survey at >> >> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >> >> >> >> or download a Word Doc at: >> >> www.padnfb.org >> >> >> >> and send to me at: >> >> dwhill at epix.net >> >> >> >> Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e >> mail. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations >> >> Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind >> >> 570-833-2708 >> >> dwhill at epix.net >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: >> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill >> >> Apple I-Tunes >> >> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 >> >> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> www.padnfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 15:11:04 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:11:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your education for you. Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says > anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my > parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the > doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, > so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock > some sense into my stupid teachers... > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >> Beth >> >> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Frandandiah, >>> >>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in >>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>> their >>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>> providing >>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private >>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>> switch to public school? >>> >>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" >>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you >>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading >>> lots >>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, >>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>> >>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>> >>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some >>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use a >>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>> books; >>> www.bookshare.org. >>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets and >>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>> enlarge >>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>> Amazon.com >>> or audible.com. >>> >>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape books, >>> called talking books. >>> >>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>> I think they record books and sell products. >>> >>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Ashley >>> >>> Ashley H Bramlett >>> Undergraduate Student >>> Marymount University >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From tnw602 at jaguar1.usouthal.edu Mon Nov 10 17:14:02 2008 From: tnw602 at jaguar1.usouthal.edu (tnw602 at jaguar1.usouthal.edu) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:14:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] AABS of NFB compiling information for guideline project Message-ID: Hello everyone, The Alabama Association of Blind Students of NFB are compiling information that will be used for guidelines for Disability Students Services (DSS) or some may know it as Special Student Services (SSS). This is a service that is usually offered through your university, Community college, etc. We are conducting a project that will address the general aspects of how to help a blind student and sort of what and what not to do. We are asking you guys to send us any problems that you have had with this service and a short explanation of what you think they should have done differently. We are also asking if you have any inputs that you think should be included, whether you had a bad experience or not with this service, they are also being accepted. The last day that Dezman Jackson and I will be viewing input, extra information, experiences, etc that will be included in these guidelines is Friday November 14, 2008. If you have already responded to Dezman Jackson's posting of this topic it has already been received and viewed, you do not have to submit it again. Thank you in advance, Tamika Williams From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 19:37:44 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:37:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until you get what you need. Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. > > On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>> to braille though. >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>> Braille now. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>> school. >>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 20:49:10 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:49:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How? On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until > you get what you need. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >> >> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>>> to braille though. >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>> Braille now. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>> school. >>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>> though. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>> academic >>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 20:51:59 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:51:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811100709r1b347366k12ba9ebc9dd248a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811100709r1b347366k12ba9ebc9dd248a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hm...sounds interesting. In a game series called the "Tales of" there is quite a few made up languages. In one of the games called "Tales of Eternia" they created a language called Melinics that can actually be translated in both English and in Japanese. Actually, there are some fans that can speak the language fluently. lol It really is quite fun and a code language for some friends and I. On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Whoa. Video games? I heard about this one called Jade Empire that > has a made-up language in it. The language is supposed to sound like > Chinese or something. It's called Tho Fan. Anyone heard of it? > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Oh my gosh! This is so for me! I want to go into voice acting when I'm >> an adult, my dream is to act in video games and anime. :-D >> >> On 11/9/08, D.W. Hill wrote: >>> *** >>> >>> Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's >>> Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two >>> projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of >>> young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their >>> thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of >>> Media Relations Donna Hill: >>> >>> dwhill at epix.net >>> >>> >>> >>> Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate >>> in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go >>> check it out is: >>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>> Thanks for your help, Donna >>> >>> *** >>> >>> Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar >>> since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous >>> blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over >>> fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other >>> minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the >>> National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people >>> pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about >>> the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a >>> severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their >>> performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes >>> musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers >>> and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, >>> whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still >>> pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. >>> >>> >>> >>> PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing >>> arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre >>> compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. >>> >>> >>> >>> Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars >>> will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, >>> such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille >>> literacy among blind kids. >>> >>> >>> >>> Take the survey at >>> >>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>> >>> >>> >>> or download a Word Doc at: >>> >>> www.padnfb.org >>> >>> >>> >>> and send to me at: >>> >>> dwhill at epix.net >>> >>> >>> >>> Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e >>> mail. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations >>> >>> Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> 570-833-2708 >>> >>> dwhill at epix.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: >>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill >>> >>> Apple I-Tunes >>> >>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 >>> >>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> www.padnfb.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 20:56:22 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not doing my best. I just don't know. On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch > schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to > a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell > them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your > education for you. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >> some sense into my stupid teachers... >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>> >>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in >>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>>> their >>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>> providing >>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private >>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>>> switch to public school? >>>> >>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" >>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you >>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading >>>> lots >>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, >>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>> >>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>>> >>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some >>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use >>>> a >>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>> books; >>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>> and >>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>> enlarge >>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>> Amazon.com >>>> or audible.com. >>>> >>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>> books, >>>> called talking books. >>>> >>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>> >>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>> Undergraduate Student >>>> Marymount University >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 21:14:15 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > How? > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >> you get what you need. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>>>> to braille though. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>> school. >>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>> though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Mon Nov 10 22:23:55 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:23:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Hello Serena, Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille books for you at a charge? I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living producing much needed, good quality braille. If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested to know. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes National Braille Press ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books for > you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where books > get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and > pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >> >> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>> >>> Pax Christi, >>> Sydney >>> >>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>> luckier than you know. >>>> >>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>> u >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>> ltants.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 22:51:42 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:51:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811101451pf3b0b86n779255b35faf47b1@mail.gmail.com> Well, suing is kind of a radical choice in ths matter. I think suing won't do any good. It might bring up a lot of points to the Supreme Court. lol But the best thing to do is 1. Think clearly. 2. Think rationally. 3. Free your mind. If you don't feel like anybody's treating you well at all in school, you need to talk to a TRUSTED ADULT about this. Lots of books and guidebooks about problems kids face or even teens face recommend talking to trusted adults. So a trusted adult would be the best person to go to. What about that lady Kerrie said you should contact? Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really > don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My > school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are > confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also > yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not > doing my best. I just don't know. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >> education for you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>> >>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in >>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>>>> their >>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>> providing >>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>> private >>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>>>> switch to public school? >>>>> >>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" >>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>> you >>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading >>>>> lots >>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, >>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>> >>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>>>> >>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>> some >>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use >>>>> a >>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>> books; >>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>> and >>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>> enlarge >>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>> Amazon.com >>>>> or audible.com. >>>>> >>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>> books, >>>>> called talking books. >>>>> >>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>> >>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>> Marymount University >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 22:54:43 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:54:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811100709r1b347366k12ba9ebc9dd248a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811101454x11355139seaba7600abc43e8d@mail.gmail.com> THis is fascinating stuff. Acting in video games and anime sounds like an interesting career to undertake. Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Hm...sounds interesting. In a game series called the "Tales of" there > is quite a few made up languages. In one of the games called "Tales of > Eternia" they created a language called Melinics that can actually be > translated in both English and in Japanese. Actually, there are some > fans that can speak the language fluently. lol It really is quite fun > and a code language for some friends and I. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Whoa. Video games? I heard about this one called Jade Empire that >> has a made-up language in it. The language is supposed to sound like >> Chinese or something. It's called Tho Fan. Anyone heard of it? >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> Oh my gosh! This is so for me! I want to go into voice acting when I'm >>> an adult, my dream is to act in video games and anime. :-D >>> >>> On 11/9/08, D.W. Hill wrote: >>>> *** >>>> >>>> Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's >>>> Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two >>>> projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of >>>> young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their >>>> thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of >>>> Media Relations Donna Hill: >>>> >>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate >>>> in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go >>>> check it out is: >>>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>>> Thanks for your help, Donna >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar >>>> since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous >>>> blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over >>>> fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other >>>> minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the >>>> National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people >>>> pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about >>>> the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a >>>> severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their >>>> performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes >>>> musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers >>>> and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, >>>> whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still >>>> pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing >>>> arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre >>>> compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars >>>> will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, >>>> such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille >>>> literacy among blind kids. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Take the survey at >>>> >>>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> or download a Word Doc at: >>>> >>>> www.padnfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> and send to me at: >>>> >>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e >>>> mail. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations >>>> >>>> Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> 570-833-2708 >>>> >>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: >>>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill >>>> >>>> Apple I-Tunes >>>> >>>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 >>>> >>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> www.padnfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 23:13:44 2008 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:13:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] It's Djd With Dj Derrick On Tonight's Djd Invasion Message-ID: <531C3C3F4B70489DAD32E7EE4BFD9B19@homeuser> Hello To All! Join me for a special edition of The Djd Invasion tonight beginning at 8 PM central. Co hosting tonight's show will be a man some of you may remember from the days when he ran the theater on FTP Radio at for-the-people.com. He's DJ Derrick, and between us, and some possible comments from my sister, we'll be taking you through a wide range of songs. As always, your comments are welcome by email/msn messenger at djdrocks4ever at gmail.com by aol instant messenger at the screen name djdrocks or when we're not playing a song, you're welcome to give us a call by dialing 1-516-874-5071 or hitting us up on skype at thedjdinvasion I think this is going to be an interesting program, so to check it out, save this email, and at 8 PM central, log on to http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html to be conneected to tonight's program. I hope to see you all there! Best regards, David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion http://www.thedjdinvasion.com From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 23:21:16 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:21:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have some usable sight so use it!" so... On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an > ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E > chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you > need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to > pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> How? >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>> you get what you need. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 23:54:17 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:54:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. Beth On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always > used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an > ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my > parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, > that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have > some usable sight so use it!" so... > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> How? >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>> you get what you need. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>> swich >>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From liamskitten at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 00:43:03 2008 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:43:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com> Hello listers, Serena and several others broached this question, especially in connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it were free *smile* Courtney On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello Serena, > > Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille > books for you at a charge? > > I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing > braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our > transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living > producing much needed, good quality braille. > > If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested to > know. > > Sincerely, > > Antonio Guimaraes > National Braille Press > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books for >> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where books >> >> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>> >>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>>> >>>> Pax Christi, >>>> Sydney >>>> >>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>> though. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>> academic >>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>> u >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>> ltants.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 11 02:47:25 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:47:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com><007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene><00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene> Hi Cortney and others Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including Louisiana Center for the Blind. Bookshare will take book requests from college >>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>non-school >>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority to >>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>may >>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>actual >>scanning. >> >>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>membership. >>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may also >>sign up for free group memberships. >> >>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>Individual memberships >>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>School or group memberships >>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >> >>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. Serena >> >>---- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Hello listers, > > Serena and several others broached this question, especially in > connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. > No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were > not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, > there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you > click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it > were free *smile* > Courtney > > On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hello Serena, >> >> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille >> books for you at a charge? >> >> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living >> producing much needed, good quality braille. >> >> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested >> to >> know. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> National Braille Press >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>> for >>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>> books >>> >>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>> >>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>>>> >>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>> Sydney >>>>> >>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>> though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>> u >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>> ltants.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From harryhogue at yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 02:50:31 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:50:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <000b01c94340$ca37eb00$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <436967.51443.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Very interesting responses; thanks, guys.   Harry --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Rania wrote: From: Rania Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:29 AM My mom also serves everyone food but if am at a buffet I will serve my self. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >I get served at family gatherings, and Mom serves all of us at home. > Mom's a good cook for that matter. She makes THE BEST apple pies with > those big apples I used to sell at marching band. > Beth > > On 11/9/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >> Hi. I do the same thing. With immediate family, I serve myself. >> At family gatherings, I usually have someone serve me. Samewith >> buffets. I go up with them, of course, but we usually have the >> same thing anyway. >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Serena" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:47:26 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>Hi Harry >> >>>I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >> it's >>>important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet lines, >>>however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the same >>>things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor serving >>>the breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Harry Hogue" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>Hello everyone, >>>With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >> discussion. >> >>>At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >> family, do you >>>serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >> for you? >> >>>As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at family >>>gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >> because it is >>>quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >> reminded of >>>the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >> Rica >>>experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made >> sure I knew >>>where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 >> years old to >>>serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. >> This, then, >>>set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with >> getting food. >>>'m interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves at >>>home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >> about >>>buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're >> getting rice, >>>chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the same >>>things. >> >>>Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>Harry >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 02:53:45 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:53:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <002b01c942cd$e76effb0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Serena,  this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you learn what an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many ladle-fulls, spoon-fulls, etc?  I have never really wanted to do that because I didn't want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc.  But I agree it is important... Harry --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: From: Serena Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM Hi Harry I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving the breakfast buffet to everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello everyone, With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same things. Just some thoughts to consider. Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 03:33:10 2008 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:33:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com> <001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <7949e5e20811101933q4961484ay6d7e20794db26f06@mail.gmail.com> Serena, I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting question to ask. Courtney On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: > Hi Cortney and others > > Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson > Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including > Louisiana Center for the Blind. > > Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>non-school >>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority to >>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>may >>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>actual >>>scanning. >>> >>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>membership. >>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may also >>>sign up for free group memberships. >>> >>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>Individual memberships >>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>School or group memberships >>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >>> >>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. > > Serena >>> >>>---- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Stover" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Hello listers, >> >> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >> were free *smile* >> Courtney >> >> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hello Serena, >>> >>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille >>> books for you at a charge? >>> >>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living >>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>> >>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested >>> to >>> know. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> National Braille Press >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Serena" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>> for >>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>> books >>>> >>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>> >>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't have >>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went to >>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is to >>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>> Sydney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that is >>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, I >>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>> u >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 04:52:06 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:52:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Photos & Performing Artists In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811101454x11355139seaba7600abc43e8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811100709r1b347366k12ba9ebc9dd248a2@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101454x11355139seaba7600abc43e8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, and since there aren't that many of those types of actors out there, I could have a chance at it! That is why there are so few, but the ones that do it and do a great job are the ones that we remember. On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > THis is fascinating stuff. Acting in video games and anime sounds > like an interesting career to undertake. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Hm...sounds interesting. In a game series called the "Tales of" there >> is quite a few made up languages. In one of the games called "Tales of >> Eternia" they created a language called Melinics that can actually be >> translated in both English and in Japanese. Actually, there are some >> fans that can speak the language fluently. lol It really is quite fun >> and a code language for some friends and I. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Whoa. Video games? I heard about this one called Jade Empire that >>> has a made-up language in it. The language is supposed to sound like >>> Chinese or something. It's called Tho Fan. Anyone heard of it? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> Oh my gosh! This is so for me! I want to go into voice acting when I'm >>>> an adult, my dream is to act in video games and anime. :-D >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, D.W. Hill wrote: >>>>> *** >>>>> >>>>> Now that the election is behind us and autumn is in full swing, NFB's >>>>> Performing Arts Division would like to ask for your help with two >>>>> projects. First, we're seeking high quality, candid photos (JPEG) of >>>>> young blind entertainers (amateurs or professionals) doing their >>>>> thing to use in brochures and the like. Send them to PAD's Head of >>>>> Media Relations Donna Hill: >>>>> >>>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Second, we strongly encourage all blind entertainers to participate >>>>> in our survey. The blurb is below. The link, if you just want to go >>>>> check it out is: >>>>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>>>> Thanks for your help, Donna >>>>> >>>>> *** >>>>> >>>>> Do you know that there hasn't been a new blind, American superstar >>>>> since Stevie Wonder & Jose Feliciano? And, if asked to name famous >>>>> blind women, most of us can only think of Helen Keller, who died over >>>>> fifty years ago. . Since a strong media presence is helping other >>>>> minorities, the nonprofit Performing Arts Division (PAD) of the >>>>> National Federation of the Blind (NFB), seeks to assist blind people >>>>> pursuing performing arts related goals. We want to learn more about >>>>> the experiences of blind and visually impaired entertainers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Who should participate in the survey? Anyone who is blind or has a >>>>> severe visual impairment who has ever sought to develop their >>>>> performing arts skills as an amateur or professional. This includes >>>>> musicians, actors, comedians, dancers, broadcasters, sound engineers >>>>> and the like. Whether or not you are a member of PAD of the NFB, >>>>> whether or not you have been successful, whether or not you are still >>>>> pursuing your art, we want to hear your experiences and thoughts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> PAD offers scholarships to blind students majoring in the performing >>>>> arts, funded through the sale of "Sound in Sight" a cross-genre >>>>> compilation of eighteen tracks donated by blind recording artists. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Help us better serve America's blind entertainers. New blind stars >>>>> will rise and shed light on issues affecting all blind Americans, >>>>> such as seventy percent unemployment and only ten percent Braille >>>>> literacy among blind kids. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take the survey at >>>>> >>>>> http://www.padnfb.org/perform..html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> or download a Word Doc at: >>>>> >>>>> www.padnfb.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and send to me at: >>>>> >>>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Let me know, if you would prefer that a Word Doc be sent to you via e >>>>> mail. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Donna Hill, Head of Media Relations >>>>> >>>>> Performing Arts Division, National Federation of the Blind >>>>> >>>>> 570-833-2708 >>>>> >>>>> dwhill at epix.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw: >>>>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill >>>>> >>>>> Apple I-Tunes >>>>> >>>>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 >>>>> >>>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> www.padnfb.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 11 05:52:07 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:52:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good evening Harry, I know this seemingly simple task can be potentially fearsome as you are probably worried about perhaps embarrassing yourself and or spilling. I think like all things you learn how to do tasks properly by trial and error. Even though I've been serving myself for years, I occasionally spill. This has nothing to do with my blindness, but rather my ability to pay attention to what I'm doing. Usually when I spill, it's something we all can laugh at rather than being too horribly embarrassed. Now, it's more likely that a sighted individual at gatherings will spill before I do. In terms of knowing how much food to get, this is somewhat relative, but needless to say, don't get more than you know you can eat. As you mentioned in your last message, people have a number of ways of doing this ranging from number of servings to weight etc. I actually utilize all of these concepts. All this to say that serving oneself is definitely a step toward a sense of personal independence. As I mentioned above, trial and error is ok. Serve yourself when there are less people around so you get a hang of how it's done. Hope this helps. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you learn what an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many ladle-fulls, spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I didn't want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is important... Harry --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: From: Serena Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM Hi Harry I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving the breakfast buffet to everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello everyone, With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same things. Just some thoughts to consider. Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From harryhogue at yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 06:05:03 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:05:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <965455.81113.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Are you totally blind, David?  I definitely think that adds a bit more adjustment - but not difficulty since you can do it, like you said, through trial and error and knowing and believing you can.   Harry   --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dave Wright wrote: From: Dave Wright Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 11:52 PM Good evening Harry, I know this seemingly simple task can be potentially fearsome as you are probably worried about perhaps embarrassing yourself and or spilling. I think like all things you learn how to do tasks properly by trial and error. Even though I've been serving myself for years, I occasionally spill. This has nothing to do with my blindness, but rather my ability to pay attention to what I'm doing. Usually when I spill, it's something we all can laugh at rather than being too horribly embarrassed. Now, it's more likely that a sighted individual at gatherings will spill before I do. In terms of knowing how much food to get, this is somewhat relative, but needless to say, don't get more than you know you can eat. As you mentioned in your last message, people have a number of ways of doing this ranging from number of servings to weight etc. I actually utilize all of these concepts. All this to say that serving oneself is definitely a step toward a sense of personal independence. As I mentioned above, trial and error is ok. Serve yourself when there are less people around so you get a hang of how it's done. Hope this helps. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 11 07:02:43 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:02:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blinded Pilot Guided safely to ground Message-ID: <4520D7337B7C4CEB829FC84CEEB7DC18@davee984e49f02> Hey there all, I don't mean to clog up the list with potentially off-topic posts, but wow, this is an amazing story. Blinded Pilot Guided Safely to Ground >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >> Filed at 7:42 p.m. ET >> >> LONDON (AP) -- A British pilot who was suddenly blinded by a stroke >> during a >> solo flight was talked safely down by a military pilot, the Royal Air >> Force >> said Friday. >> >> Jim O'Neill asked for help after he was went blind 40 minutes into a >> flight >> from Scotland to southeastern England last week. The BBC reported that >> O'Neill, flying a small Cessna aircraft, lost his sight 5,500 feet in the >> air. >> >> ''It was terrifying,'' O'Neill said. ''Suddenly, I couldn't see the dials >> in >> front of me.'' >> >> The air force said in a news release that O'Neill initially believed he'd >> been ''dazzled'' by bright sunlight, and made an emergency call for help. >> He >> then realized that something more serious was happening, and said, ''I >> want >> to land, ASAP.'' >> >> RAF Wing Commander Paul Gerrard was just finishing a training flight >> nearby >> and was drafted in to help the stricken pilot. >> >> Gerrard located the plane, began flying close to it and radioed >> directions. >> >> ''For me, I was just glad to help a fellow aviator in distress,'' he >> said. >> >> ''Landing an aircraft literally blind needs someone to be right there to >> say >> 'Left a bit, right a bit, stop, down,''' Gerrard said. ''On the crucial >> final approach, even with radar assistance, you need to take over >> visually. >> That's when having a fellow pilot there was so important. >> >> O'Neill's son, Douglas, said his father is an experienced pilot who has >> flown for nearly two decades. The 65-year-old is recovering in hospital >> where he is beginning to regain his sight. >> >> ''The doctors have confirmed that he suffered a stroke from a blood clot, >> but he doesn't seem to have suffered any other ill-effects apart from >> losing >> his sight,'' Douglas O'Neill said. ''He says he went blind very suddenly >> and >> then, once he'd got over the shock, was able to distinguish a bit of >> darkness and light.'' >> >> In a recording posted to the BBC's news Web site, Gerrard gives O'Neill >> instructions -- ''a gentle right hand turn, please,'' is called for at >> one >> point -- and he can be heard apologizing. >> >> ''You could hear the apprehension in his voice over the radio and the >> frustration he was experiencing,'' said radar controller Richard >> Eggleton. >> ''I kept saying 'Are you visual?' and he would reply 'No sir, negative, >> I'm >> sorry sir.' He kept on apologizing. >> >> With Gerrard talking him down, O'Neill's plane hit the runway and bounced >> up >> again, the RAF said. It did the same on the second touchdown. On the >> third, >> O'Neill was able to keep his plane on the ground. >> >> ''It's one of those things you might hear about happening in some sort of >> all-action film but it's hard to believe what they did,'' Douglas O'Neill >> said of the RAF. ''They were just tremendous.'' Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Tue Nov 11 14:45:10 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:45:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91><4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101451pf3b0b86n779255b35faf47b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002a01c9440c$192c26b0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Hi, Suing is one option which brings with it a huge emotional cost to the people involved. Most things do not end up in front of the supreme court. They either get resolved before hand, or just are not matters the court is interested in hearing. I know Franandiah is connected to people in her state who are able advocates for blind students. She will eventually get this matter resolved, and be able to focus on succeeding in school. Franandiah is capable of this, and she is pushing against some real issues of access to education. I know she will do whatever it takes, and will fight hard for her success. Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school > Well, suing is kind of a radical choice in ths matter. I think suing > won't do any good. It might bring up a lot of points to the Supreme > Court. lol But the best thing to do is > 1. Think clearly. > 2. Think rationally. > 3. Free your mind. If you don't feel like anybody's treating you well > at all in school, you need to talk to a TRUSTED ADULT about this. > Lots of books and guidebooks about problems kids face or even teens > face recommend talking to trusted adults. So a trusted adult would be > the best person to go to. What about that lady Kerrie said you should > contact? > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >> doing my best. I just don't know. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>> education for you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>> >>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>>> in >>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it >>>>>> as >>>>>> their >>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>> providing >>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>> private >>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't >>>>>> you >>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>> >>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>> sight" >>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>>> you >>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>> reading >>>>>> lots >>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>> strain, >>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual >>>>>> deficits. >>>>>> >>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>> some >>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>> Use >>>>>> a >>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>>> books; >>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>>> and >>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>> enlarge >>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>> books, >>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>> >>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>> >>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From agrima at nbp.org Tue Nov 11 15:51:23 2008 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:51:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Two free offers from National Braille Press Message-ID: Read on for two free offers from National Braille Press! 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Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . _______________________________________________ Nbp mailing list Nbp at nbp.org PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . Visit us at http://www.nbp.org From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 11 18:38:48 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a maccaroni bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. I love to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of that, anyhow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you learn what an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many ladle-fulls, spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I didn't want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is important... Harry --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: From: Serena Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM Hi Harry I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving the breakfast buffet to everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello everyone, With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of the importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience. My host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the serving spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate and had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent that as a blind person I needed help with getting food. 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about buffets, especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same things. Just some thoughts to consider. Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 18:44:11 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:44:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <002a01c9440c$192c26b0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101451pf3b0b86n779255b35faf47b1@mail.gmail.com> <002a01c9440c$192c26b0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811111044k5332d235iec77970f95f4aa64@mail.gmail.com> You're right, Antonio. Beth On 11/11/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi, > > Suing is one option which brings with it a huge emotional cost to the people > involved. > > Most things do not end up in front of the supreme court. They either get > resolved before hand, or just are not matters the court is interested in > hearing. > > I know Franandiah is connected to people in her state who are able advocates > for blind students. She will eventually get this matter resolved, and be > able to focus on succeeding in school. > > Franandiah is capable of this, and she is pushing against some real issues > of access to education. I know she will do whatever it takes, and will fight > hard for her success. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:51 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school > > >> Well, suing is kind of a radical choice in ths matter. I think suing >> won't do any good. It might bring up a lot of points to the Supreme >> Court. lol But the best thing to do is >> 1. Think clearly. >> 2. Think rationally. >> 3. Free your mind. If you don't feel like anybody's treating you well >> at all in school, you need to talk to a TRUSTED ADULT about this. >> Lots of books and guidebooks about problems kids face or even teens >> face recommend talking to trusted adults. So a trusted adult would be >> the best person to go to. What about that lady Kerrie said you should >> contact? >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >>> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >>> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >>> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >>> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >>> doing my best. I just don't know. >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>>> education for you. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>>> providing >>>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>>> private >>>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>>> sight" >>>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>>> reading >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>>> strain, >>>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual >>>>>>> deficits. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>>> Use >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>>>> books; >>>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>>> enlarge >>>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>>> books, >>>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 20:50:44 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:50:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other adaptive technology. On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight > classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley > School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind > people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like > anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they > don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go > to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. > Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >> some usable sight so use it!" so... >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> How? >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>> you get what you need. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 20:52:12 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:52:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20811101933q4961484ay6d7e20794db26f06@mail.gmail.com> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com> <001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene> <7949e5e20811101933q4961484ay6d7e20794db26f06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: > Serena, > > I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, > I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. > In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would > carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in > a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting > question to ask. > Courtney > > On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >> Hi Cortney and others >> >> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >> >> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>non-school >>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority to >>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>may >>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>actual >>>>scanning. >>>> >>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>membership. >>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may also >>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>> >>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>Individual memberships >>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>School or group memberships >>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>> >>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >> >> Serena >>>> >>>>---- Original Message ----- >> From: "Linda Stover" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> Hello listers, >>> >>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>> were free *smile* >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Hello Serena, >>>> >>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille >>>> books for you at a charge? >>>> >>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living >>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>> >>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested >>>> to >>>> know. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> National Braille Press >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Serena" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>> for >>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>> books >>>>> >>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>> u >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Nov 11 21:20:46 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:20:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com><007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene><00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local><7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com><001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene><7949e5e20811101933q4961484ay6d7e20794db26f06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free cause you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. > Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. > > On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >> Serena, >> >> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >> question to ask. >> Courtney >> >> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>> Hi Cortney and others >>> >>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>> >>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>non-school >>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority >>>>>to >>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>>may >>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>actual >>>>>scanning. >>>>> >>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>membership. >>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>also >>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>> >>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>> >>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>> >>> Serena >>>>> >>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Linda Stover" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Hello listers, >>>> >>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>> were free *smile* >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>> >>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>> braille >>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>> >>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>> living >>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>> >>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>> interested >>>>> to >>>>> know. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> National Braille Press >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>>> for >>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>> books >>>>>> >>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>> told >>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>> experience >>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From liamskitten at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 21:58:02 2008 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:58:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <922c02e40811072142p47fe82aele6e1f53dbd5a8fa8@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c942ac$12e5ada0$0201a8c0@Serene> <00c701c94383$04e20d70$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <7949e5e20811101643u581b86d9wf0e375931dee4017@mail.gmail.com> <001901c943a7$d4d5f180$0201a8c0@Serene> <7949e5e20811101933q4961484ay6d7e20794db26f06@mail.gmail.com> <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <7949e5e20811111358t1a0374a4o38f839f2791c0c9@mail.gmail.com> Franandah, Serena is correct. If you wish to know how to request a free membership due to the fact that you are a student, go to bookshare.org and look at the link titled About Membership. Click on individual subscriptions. Not to far down that page, it says something like Us students can request a free membership. Then, it gives you the steps for acquiring a membership, and on the link where it says make payments, it also says or request a free membership. I hope this helps. If you need more info about membership, please E-mail me offlist at liamskitten at gmail.com Courtney On 11/11/08, Serena wrote: > I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free cause > you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with > information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. >> Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. >> >> On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>> Serena, >>> >>> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >>> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >>> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >>> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >>> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >>> question to ask. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi Cortney and others >>>> >>>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>>> >>>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>>non-school >>>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority >>>>>>to >>>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>>>may >>>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>>actual >>>>>>scanning. >>>>>> >>>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>>membership. >>>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>>also >>>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>>> >>>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>>> >>>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Linda Stover" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello listers, >>>>> >>>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>>> were free *smile* >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>>> braille >>>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>>> >>>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>>> living >>>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>>> >>>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>>> interested >>>>>> to >>>>>> know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> National Braille Press >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>>> books >>>>>>> >>>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Tue Nov 11 22:30:54 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu ( Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:30:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: Serena is correct. You can get free bookshare accounts if you're a student. Go to the website and it will explain everything. I have one and it was real easy to obtain. Hope and Beignet -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free cause you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. > Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. > > On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >> Serena, >> >> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >> question to ask. >> Courtney >> >> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>> Hi Cortney and others >>> >>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>> >>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>non-school >>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority >>>>>to >>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>>may >>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>actual >>>>>scanning. >>>>> >>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>membership. >>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>also >>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>> >>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Cre ate+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>> >>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>> >>> Serena >>>>> >>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Linda Stover" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Hello listers, >>>> >>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>> were free *smile* >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>> >>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>> braille >>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>> >>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>> living >>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>> >>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>> interested >>>>> to >>>>> know. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> National Braille Press >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>>> for >>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>> books >>>>>> >>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>> told >>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>> experience >>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. edu __________ NOD32 3604 (20081111) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 23:02:44 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:02:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811111502t2b63e6b3r489ffe01af28938b@mail.gmail.com> I"m sorry this is happening to you. Perhaps you could go to a state school fohe blin, free, public, and simple. You will have all the Braille and adaptivethings you need to survive in school. Schools for the blind aren't my top suggestion, but if your parents are so adamant at sending you to a Christian school, they're wrong. I don't want to take sides here, but that's what it i9s. Beth On 11/11/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that > because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and > they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for > tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other > adaptive technology. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> How? >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From missheather at comcast.net Tue Nov 11 23:32:27 2008 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:32:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A55FC6C90F7407499D18657F766BC5C@heathersony> Dear Franandah, Have you contacted the lady Kerry Gilmer gave you the number to call. She will be able to help you get what you need. You are not the only student who has been denied what they need to get an education that allows them to reach their potential. Advocates are very used to schools and parents that say no. They no how to show people other alternatives. Your parents don't want to admit that you are blind, obviously. They need to see that by refusing to let you use your blindness techniques, they are holding you back from becoming all you can be in life. Kerry has already told you haow helpful this lady will be. You may feel like there is no possibility that things will change. If you are left to do it for yourself, they probably won't. However, with the help of an experienced advocate to assist you, it is most likely that things will change dramatically. If you are serious about getting braille and other accomodations then, I suggest that you take the next step and call the lady who can help. It is unlikely that anyone on this list can help you with mere suggestions because it relies on you to carry them out. As you keep telling us that no one will listen to you, there doesn't seem much point in trying to give you suggestions that you won't try because you don't believe anything will change. Of course, if you don't want to contact the advocate lady, you could just wake up tomorrow morning and tell everyone that you can't see anything clearly. Fail all vision tests and read and look at nothing to do with school work or that requires close looking. No one can look into your head and know what you can see. Don't even try to read, just screw up your eyes and say nothing is clear. This is basically true with your restricted vision. Your parents will then have to reconsider options. I hope you call the advocate and let her help you learn how to help yourself. Best regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other adaptive technology. On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: > Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight > classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the > Hadley > School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind > people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like > anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they > don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go > to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. > Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. > Beth > > On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. >> However, >> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >> some usable sight so use it!" so... >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what >>> you >>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so >>> on. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> How? >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school >>>>> until >>>>> you get what you need. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get >>>>>>> Braille and >>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the >>>>>>> most. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra >>>>>>>> time on >>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while >>>>>>>>> she had >>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's >>>>>>>>> fine with >>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a >>>>>>>>>> week after >>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs >>>>>>>>>>>were >>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio >>>>>>>>>>>> books and >>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in >>>>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, >>>>>>>>>>>> I was >>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have >>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Tue Nov 11 23:46:05 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:46:05 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school Message-ID: <20081111234510.EMPS19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> What about the state libraries? They have tons of stuff both on audio and in Braille... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:52:12 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. >Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. >On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >> Serena, >> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >> question to ask. >> Courtney >> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>> Hi Cortney and others >>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>non-school >>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority to >>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>>may >>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>actual >>>>>scanning. >>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>membership. >>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may also >>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?jo in=Create+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>> Serena >>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Linda Stover" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> Hello listers, >>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>> were free *smile* >>>> Courtney >>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will braille >>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good living >>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be interested >>>>> to >>>>> know. >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> National Braille Press >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Serena" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>>> for >>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>> books >>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as you >>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would be >>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, I >>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It doesn't >>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just don't >>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to just >>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already told >>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school experience >>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went to >>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a vision >>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off list. >>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you have >>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would do >>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much longer, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas% 40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40 beckerconsu >>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae s%40nbp.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt en%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt en%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Nov 12 02:50:10 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:50:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91><4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <72830A2F4EB340F88859F0490ECDABC0@Ashley> Frandanda, Your vision is worse than mine. You are legally blind and certainly need to use other senses and skills in combination with your vision. I got a cane and braille in school. Although my parents did not encourage the cane they did not resist my learning it at school. I was in public school though. Its sad you are not getting the support you need. Since you are legally blind you qualify for the services I talked about such as Recording for the Blind, national library service, and paratransit since you don't drive. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school > Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says > anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my > parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the > doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, > so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock > some sense into my stupid teachers... > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >> Beth >> >> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Frandandiah, >>> >>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations in >>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>> their >>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>> providing >>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, private >>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>> switch to public school? >>> >>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your sight" >>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision you >>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as reading >>> lots >>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual strain, >>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>> >>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>> >>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are some >>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. Use >>> a >>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>> books; >>> www.bookshare.org. >>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>> and >>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>> enlarge >>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>> Amazon.com >>> or audible.com. >>> >>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>> books, >>> called talking books. >>> >>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>> I think they record books and sell products. >>> >>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Ashley >>> >>> Ashley H Bramlett >>> Undergraduate Student >>> Marymount University >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3596 (20081107) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Nov 12 02:54:59 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:54:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010218A1D484425FBC65038863792624@Ashley> Frandandah, That's really surprising you get mobility training but no braille. How often do you see an instructor and is it off school grounds? I would think your parents would resist the cane, a symbol of blindness, if they resist braille. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. > > On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>> to braille though. >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>> Braille now. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>> school. >>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>> to yours. >>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>> my TVI >>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>> tests. >>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>> though. >>>>> >>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>> asked to >>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>> academic >>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>> more effective >>>>>>> with braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>> >>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>> handouts, >>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3596 (20081107) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Nov 12 03:00:07 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:00:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91><4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> Franandah, I don't think you can sue or talk to a lawyer because you are a minor. Threats won't help them. If you bring an advocate in and they threaten that has more weight, but from you its ignored. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school > Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really > don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My > school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are > confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also > yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not > doing my best. I just don't know. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >> education for you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>> >>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>> in >>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>>>> their >>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>> providing >>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>> private >>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>>>> switch to public school? >>>>> >>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>> sight" >>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>> you >>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>> reading >>>>> lots >>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>> strain, >>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>> >>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>>>> >>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>> some >>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>> Use >>>>> a >>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>> books; >>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>> and >>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>> enlarge >>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>> Amazon.com >>>>> or audible.com. >>>>> >>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>> books, >>>>> called talking books. >>>>> >>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>> >>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>> Marymount University >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3600 (20081110) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Nov 12 03:11:13 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:11:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> Franandah, Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and teachers obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision but its ineffective. If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it may help in them understanding your vision. Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, its expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they not afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are affluent. Something really smells fishy here. Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the lions club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that > because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and > they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for > tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other > adaptive technology. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> How? >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 03:28:27 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:28:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811111928n3044af5ch2e815fbbe7552b04@mail.gmail.com> You're right, Ashley.Beth On 11/11/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Franandah, > > I don't think you can sue or talk to a lawyer because you are a minor. > Threats won't help them. If you bring an advocate in and they threaten that > has more weight, but from you its ignored. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school > > >> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >> doing my best. I just don't know. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>> education for you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>> >>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>>> in >>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it as >>>>>> their >>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>> providing >>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>> private >>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't you >>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>> >>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>> sight" >>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>>> you >>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>> reading >>>>>> lots >>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>> strain, >>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual deficits. >>>>>> >>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>> some >>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>> Use >>>>>> a >>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>>> books; >>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>>> and >>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>> enlarge >>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>> books, >>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>> >>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>> >>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3600 (20081110) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Nov 12 05:10:43 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:10:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> Message-ID: Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship programs too. Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. It's scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such an emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, it will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with a visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain those skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish you had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you want things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. HTH, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school Franandah, Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and teachers obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision but its ineffective. If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it may help in them understanding your vision. Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, its expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they not afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are affluent. Something really smells fishy here. Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the lions club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that > because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and > they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for > tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other > adaptive technology. > > On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >> Beth >> >> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> How? >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau l >>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From freedmas at stolaf.edu Wed Nov 12 13:07:14 2008 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:07:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <922c02e40811120507u12de7570l1b438b6f1d1fd974@mail.gmail.com> Bookshare is *free* for students. :) So, you should give it a try. Sydney On 11/11/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > Serena is correct. You can get free bookshare accounts if you're a student. > Go to the website and it will explain everything. I have one and it was real > easy to obtain. > > Hope and Beignet > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Serena > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > > I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free cause > you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with > information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school > > >> Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. >> Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. >> >> On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>> Serena, >>> >>> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >>> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >>> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >>> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >>> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >>> question to ask. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi Cortney and others >>>> >>>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>>> >>>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all textbook >>>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>>non-school >>>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority >>>>>>to >>>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. You >>>>>>may >>>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>>actual >>>>>>scanning. >>>>>> >>>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working with >>>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>>membership. >>>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>>also >>>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>>> >>>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Cre > ate+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>>> >>>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Linda Stover" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello listers, >>>>> >>>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>>> were free *smile* >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>>> braille >>>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>>> >>>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>>> living >>>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>>> >>>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>>> interested >>>>>> to >>>>>> know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> National Braille Press >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille books >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>>> books >>>>>>> >>>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say "Oh, >>>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public schools >>>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be some >>>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine went >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought is >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but that >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. My >>>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. > com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. > edu > > __________ NOD32 3604 (20081111) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 13:52:57 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:52:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: <922c02e40811120507u12de7570l1b438b6f1d1fd974@mail.gmail.com> References: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> <922c02e40811120507u12de7570l1b438b6f1d1fd974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hm...I never knew that. I should check this out...Thank you for the information. On 11/12/08, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: > Bookshare is *free* for students. :) So, you should give it a try. > > Sydney > > > > On 11/11/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >> Serena is correct. You can get free bookshare accounts if you're a >> student. >> Go to the website and it will explain everything. I have one and it was >> real >> easy to obtain. >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Serena >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:21 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >> I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free cause >> you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with >> information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >> >> >>> Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. >>> Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>> Serena, >>>> >>>> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >>>> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >>>> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >>>> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >>>> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >>>> question to ask. >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Cortney and others >>>>> >>>>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>>>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>>>> >>>>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all >>>>>>> textbook >>>>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>>>non-school >>>>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give priority >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. >>>>>>> You >>>>>>>may >>>>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>>>actual >>>>>>>scanning. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>>>membership. >>>>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>>>also >>>>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Cre >> ate+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Linda Stover" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello listers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if it >>>>>> were free *smile* >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>>>> braille >>>>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on handing >>>>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>>>> living >>>>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>>>> interested >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>> National Braille Press >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille >>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service where >>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of public >>>>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good Christian >>>>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding material, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say >>>>>>>>> "Oh, >>>>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe if >>>>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and went >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public >>>>>>>>>> schools >>>>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be >>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine >>>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are going >>>>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to do >>>>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, they >>>>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand a >>>>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort and >>>>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. >>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I would >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. >> com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. >> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. >> edu >> >> __________ NOD32 3604 (20081111) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 14:03:48 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:03:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> Message-ID: Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the best time to call. On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship > programs too. > Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. It's > scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such an > emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. > Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, it > will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. > Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with a > visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific > methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if > there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain those > skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will > grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish you > had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you want > things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, > then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. > HTH, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > Franandah, > > Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our > suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and teachers > obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision but > its ineffective. > If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it may > help in them understanding your vision. > Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, its > expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they not > afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are > affluent. Something really smells fishy here. > Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the lions > > club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. > > HTH, > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > >> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >> adaptive technology. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> How? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau > l >>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 14:06:13 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:06:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811111928n3044af5ch2e815fbbe7552b04@mail.gmail.com> References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> <4383d01d0811111928n3044af5ch2e815fbbe7552b04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Lol thanks Antonio for talking about me like I'm not here. lol Yeah, I'm working on trying to get things figured out. It is jsut very frustrating. Hopefully, by next year we can get things settled. On 11/11/08, Beth wrote: > You're right, Ashley.Beth > > On 11/11/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Franandah, >> >> I don't think you can sue or talk to a lawyer because you are a minor. >> Threats won't help them. If you bring an advocate in and they threaten >> that >> has more weight, but from you its ignored. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school >> >> >>> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >>> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >>> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >>> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >>> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >>> doing my best. I just don't know. >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>>> education for you. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>>> providing >>>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>>> private >>>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>>> sight" >>>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>>> reading >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>>> strain, >>>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual >>>>>>> deficits. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>>> Use >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and pleasure >>>>>>> books; >>>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put worksheets >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>>> enlarge >>>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the state >>>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>>> books, >>>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3600 (20081110) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From wurmlord at hotmail.com Wed Nov 12 14:09:55 2008 From: wurmlord at hotmail.com (Buddy W.) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:09:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school Message-ID: Frandandah, As others here have suggested, an advocate is a great idea, your eye doctor would be a great choice or maybe they can recomend someone to help. You might also try putting your argument into a perspective that your parents and the school can understand. Here is one similar to what I used on an instructor earlier this year when she said that I could use ANY computer with a windows operating system because it has a magnifier, and I shouldn't and couldn't use my laptop. I have changed it to fit your situation. Which is a more efficient use of available resources for your parents? Pushing the car to work every day, or putting gas in the tank and driving the car to and from work? Both of them get the job done, but which one is faster and easier? Of course, we must first assume they have already learned to drive. Now put that to use with Braille. Once you learn it, your speed will gradually increase, just like a person learning to drive a car becomes more experienced and confident over time. Now which is faster? Tracking a single letter in a word at a time like my vision allows (my only eye is 20/600 with only a 6 degree visual field), constantly losing my place, usually taking about an hour or so to read an average page. or using Braille, and being able to read that same page in just a few minutes? Of course using Braille is much faster and efficient, just like using gasoline and driving the car is much faster and easier than trying to push it. I can understand how frustrated you must feel, but making threats tends to put people on the defensive, and defensive people tend to be more close minded, and not willing to listen to your argument or point of view. I wish you luck, Buddy "Self is the only prison that can ever bind the soul." -- Henry Van Dyke >From: "Ashley Bramlett" >Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >list >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:54:59 -0500 > >Frandandah, > >That's really surprising you get mobility training but no braille. How >often do you see an instructor and is it off school grounds? I would think >your parents would resist the cane, a symbol of blindness, if they resist >braille. > >Ashley >----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:01 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > >>I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >> >>On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>Beth >>> >>>On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>>>to braille though. >>>> >>>>On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>Braille now. >>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>>On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>school. >>>>>>It was pretty awesome. >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>Behalf >>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>>I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>were extremely effective. >>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>also brailled. >>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>to yours. >>>>>>>>I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>my TVI >>>>>>>>was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>tests. >>>>>>>>As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>though. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>asked to >>>>>>>>present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>academic >>>>>>>>impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>more effective >>>>>>>>with braille. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>handouts, >>>>>>>>audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>>>Ashley >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>il04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>os%40maine.edu >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>signature database 3596 (20081107) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wurmlord%40hotmail.com From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 14:14:50 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:14:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Menu In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811070612u3bc220dcgf700383128e828d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c9348e$8563cb40$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> <4383d01d0811070612u3bc220dcgf700383128e828d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow, that is pretty cool. I never knew that there were such things as braille menues. I've never read one before. I would love to get the chance though. On 11/7/08, Beth wrote: > Good idea. > Beth > > On 10/22/08, Marianne Haas wrote: >> Good Afternoon, >> I have encountered several places with Braille m enues. However, not >> enough >> places have it. So, I think we need to encourage restaurants to have >> Braille menus and let managers know where menus can be brailled. >> >> Marianne >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces+braillewoman=earthlink.net at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces+braillewoman=earthlink.net at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Jamie Rhoads >> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:27 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Menu >> >> They do that at Applebees around here as well. Usually, when my brother >> or >> i go there, they will ask if we want a braille menu. it is pretty neat >> that >> >> places like that have braille menus. >> >> Jamie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben J. Bloomgren" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:13 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Menu >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I went out to Red Robin with my mom on Saturday night, and something >>> really >>> cool happened. We walked into the restaurant, and as we were being >>> seated, >>> the host/usher asked us if quote anyone needs a Braille menu unquote. I >>> was >>> amazed. I said yes, and I gave it up before checking page 30 for the >>> desserts. Point is, they actually asked us! >>> >>> ben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/jrhoads284%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/braillewoman%40earthlink.net >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1735 - Release Date: 10/20/2008 >> 2:52 PM >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1735 - Release Date: 10/20/2008 >> 2:52 PM >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Nov 12 14:50:22 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:50:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811060132id95e886j4cfe486c17b949f6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811060829q74cbca6fma6f4fac796662a30@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> Message-ID: <005c01c944d5$fdaebd60$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Dear Ashley, Some Christian parents work hard, and save a good deal to do their children a favor by sending them to Christian schools. Not all people who pay the hi cost of a private school are affluent, and able to pay the additional costs of specialized education. they save, and work, and do what they can to send their children to their school of choice. Additionally, someone made the point about Franandiah's parents embracing mobility training, and not braille. I think her parents would embrace braille if they knew what Franandiah knows. That braille would be a relief, and a better way to access information, and excel. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > Franandah, > > Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our > suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and teachers > obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision but > its ineffective. > If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it may > help in them understanding your vision. > Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, > its expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they > not afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are > affluent. Something really smells fishy here. > Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the > lions club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. > > HTH, > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > >> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >> adaptive technology. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> How? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Nov 12 14:54:49 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:54:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: Message-ID: <006a01c944d6$9cca3f00$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Hello Buddy, You have very good points. I understand your message about pushing a car vs. driving it. However, we should realize that eye doctors are most often not the best blindness advocates. They are a diagnostic tool who can provide the facts about one's eye sight. They are not interested in spending their time advocating for patients. Sincerely, Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy W." To: Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > Frandandah, > > As others here have suggested, an advocate is a great idea, your eye > doctor would be a great choice or maybe they can recomend someone to help. > You might also try putting your argument into a perspective that your > parents and the school can understand. Here is one similar to what I used > on an instructor earlier this year when she said that I could use ANY > computer with a windows operating system because it has a magnifier, and I > shouldn't and couldn't use my laptop. I have changed it to fit your > situation. > > Which is a more efficient use of available resources for your parents? > Pushing the car to work every day, or putting gas in the tank and driving > the car to and from work? Both of them get the job done, but which one is > faster and easier? Of course, we must first assume they have already > learned to drive. > > Now put that to use with Braille. Once you learn it, your speed will > gradually increase, just like a person learning to drive a car becomes > more experienced and confident over time. Now which is faster? Tracking > a single letter in a word at a time like my vision allows (my only eye is > 20/600 with only a 6 degree visual field), constantly losing my place, > usually taking about an hour or so to read an average page. or using > Braille, and being able to read that same page in just a few minutes? Of > course using Braille is much faster and efficient, just like using > gasoline and driving the car is much faster and easier than trying to push > it. > > I can understand how frustrated you must feel, but making threats tends to > put people on the defensive, and defensive people tend to be more close > minded, and not willing to listen to your argument or point of view. > > I wish you luck, > Buddy > "Self is the only prison that can ever bind the soul." -- Henry Van Dyke > > > > > >>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>list >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:54:59 -0500 >> >>Frandandah, >> >>That's really surprising you get mobility training but no braille. How >>often do you see an instructor and is it off school grounds? I would >>think your parents would resist the cane, a symbol of blindness, if they >>resist braille. >> >>Ashley >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:01 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >> >> >>>I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>> >>>On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille and >>>>more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>Beth >>>> >>>>On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but everyone >>>>>always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time on >>>>>tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather swich >>>>>to braille though. >>>>> >>>>>On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine with >>>>>>Braille now. >>>>>>Beth >>>>>> >>>>>>On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week after >>>>>>>school. >>>>>>>It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>Behalf >>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. These >>>>>>>were extremely effective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>also brailled. >>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my experience >>>>>>>to yours. >>>>>>>>>I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books and >>>>>>>my TVI >>>>>>>>>was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>tests. >>>>>>>>>As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>asked to >>>>>>>>>present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>academic >>>>>>>>>impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>more effective >>>>>>>>>with braille. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or braille >>>>>>>handouts, >>>>>>>>>audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>>>>Ashley >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>>>>os%40maine.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>ronto.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>signature database 3596 (20081107) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wurmlord%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 16:28:11 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <491b0422.85c2f10a.4dce.ffffd0c3@mx.google.com> Dear Franandiah, You are leaving me a bit confused. It is me Carrie Gilmer. You and I have emailed back and forth a few times. I am the one who signed you up to get on this list so you could talk with other blind students. I have sent you the email address for the lady in Michigan who can help you. She has sent you an email which you have not responded to. I resent the email to you with her email address again. Please respond to that email to braillebeats at gmail.com the lady's name is Brunehilde, please send her your phone number, your name of school and name of teacher so she can call you and know how best to help. I think she also emailed you her phone number. If not she will do so now and you can call her. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Franandah Damstra Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the best time to call. On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship > programs too. > Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. It's > scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such an > emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. > Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, it > will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. > Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with a > visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific > methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if > there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain those > skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will > grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish you > had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you want > things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, > then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. > HTH, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > Franandah, > > Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our > suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and teachers > obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision but > its ineffective. > If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it may > help in them understanding your vision. > Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, its > expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they not > afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are > affluent. Something really smells fishy here. > Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the lions > > club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. > > HTH, > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > >> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >> adaptive technology. >> >> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> How? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she had >>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I was >>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pa u > l >>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g > mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Nov 12 16:39:56 2008 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:39:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811101137h74259303l2f7aa8dd8a967016@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com><0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> Message-ID: <000401c944e5$4c5a0fa0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Franandiah, Carrie Gilmer's e-mail address is carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Please write to her, and see the best way to communicate. Maybe you'll need to make some calls to the parent advocate in your state, but first write Carrie at carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Good luck, Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The > reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids > in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much > money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, > but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility > training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a > public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned > braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real > confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. > I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the > best time to call. > > On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship >> programs too. >> Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. It's >> scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such >> an >> emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. >> Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, it >> will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. >> Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with >> a >> visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific >> methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if >> there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain >> those >> skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will >> grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish you >> had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you >> want >> things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, >> then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. >> HTH, >> Sarah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >> >> Franandah, >> >> Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our >> suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and >> teachers >> obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision >> but >> its ineffective. >> If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it >> may >> help in them understanding your vision. >> Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, >> its >> expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they >> not >> afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are >> affluent. Something really smells fishy here. >> Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the >> lions >> >> club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. >> >> HTH, >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >> >> >>> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >>> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >>> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >>> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >>> adaptive technology. >>> >>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> How? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau >> l >>>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 18:48:06 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:48:06 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: Hi all, With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an appropriate amount. To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of you in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently the second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing dishes around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving yourself from it. The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where we had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly does take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great place to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and so there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move quickly through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself something and transferring some of it from one container to another (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel how much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem was. Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually tipped and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like while you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even though the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle when you are serving things with the ladel. HTH, Arielle On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: > I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a maccaroni > bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. I love > to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of that, > anyhow. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you learn what > an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many ladle-fulls, > spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I didn't > want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is > important... > Harry > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > > From: Serena > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM > > Hi Harry > > I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's > important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, > however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same > things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving > the > breakfast buffet to everyone. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Hello everyone, > With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. > > At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do you > serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? > > As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family > gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it is > quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded of > the > importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica experience. > My > host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the > serving > spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate > and > had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent > that as > a blind person I needed help with getting food. > 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at > home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about > buffets, > especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, > chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same > things. > > Just some thoughts to consider. > > Harry > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Wed Nov 12 20:49:28 2008 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:49:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Job Posting, South Dakota Access Librarian Message-ID: >>> Dan Boyd 11/10/2008 9:47 AM >>> WE'RE BUILDING A NEW TEAM at the South Dakota State Library, and we're looking for a key person to help us succeed. Assistant State Librarian for Access Services Our new ASL for Access Services will take over a nationally renowned Braille & Talking Books program, and oversee its transition to the new digital format. This position will also oversee the IRCBVI and our two prison braille centers. One of our centers has fifteen NLS certified transcribers and two with Nemeth certification. This center also has fifteen tactile graphics specialists and the center will produce over 250,000 pages of braille and thousands of tactile graphics this calendar year. . In addition, Circulation, ILL, and Tech Services for the State Library fall under the purview of this challenging position. If you are wondering how to make use of your library experience, have a talent for providing excellent service, want to be part of a dynamic and changing organization, and would love to relocate to beautiful South Dakota, then apply today. Application details can be found on the SD State website: http://www.state.sd.us/applications/pr47jobs/JobDescription.asp?ReqNum=E12- 0501 For additional information, contact Dan Boyd at (605) 773-5051 (or via email: dan.boyd at state.sd.us). Hiring Range: $44,492.96 - $50,000 Open Until Filled From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 22:02:02 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:02:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding stand-alone bowls and stuff. Beth On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first > is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second > is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving > container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an > appropriate amount. > > To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, > the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of you > in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up > the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet > once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently the > second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing dishes > around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's > easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving > yourself from it. > > The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome > especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves > growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a > teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of > maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at > this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where we > had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) > whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for > forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly does > take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great place > to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and so > there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move quickly > through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself > something and transferring some of it from one container to another > (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > > To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel how > much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is > distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm > serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel > how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. > If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be > confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. > > One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve > soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with > this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem was. > Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding > the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually tipped > and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to > figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl > was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have > been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it > up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like while > you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand > while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle > until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even though > the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle when > you are serving things with the ladel. > > HTH, > Arielle > > > On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a maccaroni >> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. I >> love >> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of that, >> anyhow. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you learn >> what >> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many ladle-fulls, >> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I didn't >> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >> important... >> Harry >> >> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >> From: Serena >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >> Hi Harry >> >> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think it's >> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet lines, >> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the same >> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor serving >> the >> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for discussion. >> >> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate family, do >> you >> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate for you? >> >> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at family >> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply because it >> is >> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, reminded >> of >> the >> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >> experience. >> My >> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where the >> serving >> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my own plate >> and >> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a precedent >> that as >> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves at >> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent about >> buffets, >> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the same >> things. >> >> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >> Harry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From missheather at comcast.net Wed Nov 12 22:36:50 2008 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:36:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> Hi Beth, Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your day. Regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding stand-alone bowls and stuff. Beth On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first > is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second > is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving > container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an > appropriate amount. > > To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, > the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of > you > in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up > the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet > once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently > the > second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing > dishes > around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's > easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving > yourself from it. > > The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome > especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves > growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a > teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of > maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at > this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where > we > had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) > whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for > forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly > does > take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great > place > to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and > so > there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move > quickly > through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself > something and transferring some of it from one container to > another > (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > > To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel > how > much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is > distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm > serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel > how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. > If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be > confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. > > One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve > soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with > this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem > was. > Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding > the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually > tipped > and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to > figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl > was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have > been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it > up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like > while > you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand > while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle > until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even > though > the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle > when > you are serving things with the ladel. > > HTH, > Arielle > > > On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >> maccaroni >> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >> I >> love >> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >> that, >> anyhow. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >> learn >> what >> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >> ladle-fulls, >> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >> didn't >> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >> important... >> Harry >> >> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >> From: Serena >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >> Hi Harry >> >> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >> it's >> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >> lines, >> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >> same >> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >> serving >> the >> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >> discussion. >> >> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >> family, do >> you >> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >> for you? >> >> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >> family >> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >> because it >> is >> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >> reminded >> of >> the >> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >> experience. >> My >> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >> the >> serving >> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >> own plate >> and >> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >> precedent >> that as >> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >> at >> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >> about >> buffets, >> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >> same >> things. >> >> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >> Harry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 23:22:54 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:22:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring me down there. Beth On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: > Hi Beth, > Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. > > Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them > value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that > would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to > all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability > to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your > day. > > Regards, > > Heather Field > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem > with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my > food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand > and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than > one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver > around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has > behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed > some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke > to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't > willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I > wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold > a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding > stand-alone bowls and stuff. > Beth > > On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >> appropriate amount. >> >> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >> you >> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >> the >> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >> dishes >> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >> yourself from it. >> >> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >> we >> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >> does >> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >> place >> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >> so >> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >> quickly >> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >> something and transferring some of it from one container to >> another >> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >> how >> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >> >> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >> was. >> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >> tipped >> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >> while >> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >> though >> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >> when >> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >> HTH, >> Arielle >> >> >> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>> maccaroni >>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>> I >>> love >>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>> that, >>> anyhow. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>> learn >>> what >>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>> ladle-fulls, >>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>> didn't >>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>> important... >>> Harry >>> >>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>> >>> From: Serena >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>> >>> Hi Harry >>> >>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>> it's >>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>> lines, >>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>> same >>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>> serving >>> the >>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>> discussion. >>> >>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>> family, do >>> you >>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>> for you? >>> >>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>> family >>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>> because it >>> is >>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>> reminded >>> of >>> the >>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>> experience. >>> My >>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>> the >>> serving >>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>> own plate >>> and >>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>> precedent >>> that as >>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>> at >>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>> about >>> buffets, >>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>> same >>> things. >>> >>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 01:42:42 2008 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:42:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> Beth, What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window of opportunity. Courtney On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: > Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring > me down there. > Beth > > On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >> Hi Beth, >> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that >> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to >> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your >> day. >> >> Regards, >> >> Heather Field >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke >> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold >> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >> Beth >> >> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>> appropriate amount. >>> >>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>> you >>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>> the >>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>> dishes >>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>> yourself from it. >>> >>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>> we >>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>> does >>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>> place >>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>> so >>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>> quickly >>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>> another >>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>> >>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>> how >>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>> >>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>> was. >>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>> tipped >>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>> while >>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>> though >>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>> when >>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Arielle >>> >>> >>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>> maccaroni >>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>> I >>>> love >>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>> that, >>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>> learn >>>> what >>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>> ladle-fulls, >>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>> didn't >>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>> important... >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Serena >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>> it's >>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>> lines, >>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>> same >>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>> serving >>>> the >>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>> discussion. >>>> >>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>> family, do >>>> you >>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>> for you? >>>> >>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>> family >>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>> because it >>>> is >>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>> reminded >>>> of >>>> the >>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>> experience. >>>> My >>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>> the >>>> serving >>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>> own plate >>>> and >>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>> precedent >>>> that as >>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>> at >>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>> about >>>> buffets, >>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>> same >>>> things. >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 02:13:08 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:13:08 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> <4383d01d0811111928n3044af5ch2e815fbbe7552b04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Franandia, Forgive me if you've already told us, but what state are you in? I may be able to suggest people in your state to talk to. Arielle On 11/13/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Lol thanks Antonio for talking about me like I'm not here. lol Yeah, > I'm working on trying to get things figured out. It is jsut very > frustrating. Hopefully, by next year we can get things settled. > > On 11/11/08, Beth wrote: >> You're right, Ashley.Beth >> >> On 11/11/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Franandah, >>> >>> I don't think you can sue or talk to a lawyer because you are a minor. >>> Threats won't help them. If you bring an advocate in and they threaten >>> that >>> has more weight, but from you its ignored. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school >>> >>> >>>> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >>>> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >>>> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >>>> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >>>> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >>>> doing my best. I just don't know. >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>>>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>>>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>>>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>>>> education for you. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining accomodations >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>>>> providing >>>>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>> private >>>>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>>>> sight" >>>>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the vision >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>> lots >>>>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>>>> strain, >>>>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual >>>>>>>> deficits. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>>>> Use >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and >>>>>>>> pleasure >>>>>>>> books; >>>>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put >>>>>>>> worksheets >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>>>> enlarge >>>>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the >>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>>>> books, >>>>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3600 (20081110) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 02:30:20 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:30:20 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> <922c02e40811120507u12de7570l1b438b6f1d1fd974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Franandia, Sorry--I just saw your message saying that you are in Michigan. Have you contacted anyone from the NFB of Michigan? They will hopefully have some other ideas that you can pursue and may even be able to go with you to meet with your teachers and convince them to take your concerns seriously. You are absolutely right, it is beyond shameful that you aren't getting Braille and you should never be expected to use the sight you have--and the NFB people will understand that too. Here's info for the NFB of Michigan: Fred Wurtzel, President NFB of MI: 517-482-1800 E-mail: f.wurtzel at comcast.net Web site: http://www.nfbmi.org/ The NFB of Michigan also has a group for parents of blind children and teenagers. Perhaps your parents can talk to their president, or you can to get advice about how to handle this situation. Contact: Sharon Darga, President Parents of Blind Children in Michigan Cedar, Michigan Phone: 231-947-3972 E-mail: bossclaw at aol.com Web site: http://nfbparents.tripod.com/ Finally, I saw that the NFB of Michigan is having its annual convention in Kalamazoo this weekend. I know it's short notice, but if you live near Kalamazoo you can go to the convention meetings and talk to some of these people in person. Go to www.nfbmi.org to learn more about the convention. Cheers Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS On 11/13/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Hm...I never knew that. I should check this out...Thank you for the > information. > > On 11/12/08, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >> Bookshare is *free* for students. :) So, you should give it a try. >> >> Sydney >> >> >> >> On 11/11/08, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> Serena is correct. You can get free bookshare accounts if you're a >>> student. >>> Go to the website and it will explain everything. I have one and it was >>> real >>> easy to obtain. >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Serena >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:21 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>> I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free >>> cause >>> you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with >>> information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership. >>>> Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to. >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>> Serena, >>>>> >>>>> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However, >>>>> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned. >>>>> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would >>>>> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in >>>>> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting >>>>> question to ask. >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Hi Cortney and others >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson >>>>>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including >>>>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bookshare will take book requests from college >>>>>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all >>>>>>>> textbook >>>>>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to >>>>>>>>non-school >>>>>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give >>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit. >>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>may >>>>>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at >>>>>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the >>>>>>>>actual >>>>>>>>scanning. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to >>>>>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org >>>>>>>>membership. >>>>>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all >>>>>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may >>>>>>>>also >>>>>>>>sign up for free group memberships. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links- >>>>>>>>Individual memberships >>>>>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html >>>>>>>>School or group memberships >>>>>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Cre >>> ate+a+School+or+Group+Account >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail >>>>>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Linda Stover" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello listers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in >>>>>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can. >>>>>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were >>>>>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book, >>>>>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you >>>>>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> were free *smile* >>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello Serena, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will >>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>> books for you at a charge? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on >>>>>>>> handing >>>>>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our >>>>>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good >>>>>>>> living >>>>>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be >>>>>>>> interested >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>>> National Braille Press >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille >>>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and >>>>>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The >>>>>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it >>>>>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of >>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need >>>>>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my >>>>>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good >>>>>>>>>> Christian >>>>>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding >>>>>>>>>> material, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying >>>>>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say >>>>>>>>>> "Oh, >>>>>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It >>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your >>>>>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already >>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school >>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and >>>>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and >>>>>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public >>>>>>>>>>> schools >>>>>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine >>>>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a >>>>>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are >>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well, >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off >>>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pax Christi, >>>>>>>>>>> Sydney >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE >>>>>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal >>>>>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much >>>>>>>>>>>> longer, >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are >>>>>>>>>>>> luckier than you know. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get >>>>>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed >>>>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu >>>>>>>>>>> ltants.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> n.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> n.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. >>> com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> n.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. >>> edu >>> >>> __________ NOD32 3604 (20081111) Information __________ >>> >>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 03:34:47 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:34:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." Beth On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: > Beth, > > What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take > him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window > of opportunity. > Courtney > > On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >> me down there. >> Beth >> >> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>> Hi Beth, >>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>> >>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that >>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to >>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your >>> day. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Heather Field >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke >>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold >>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>> you >>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>> the >>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>> dishes >>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>> we >>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>> does >>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>> place >>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>> so >>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>> quickly >>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>> another >>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>> how >>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>> >>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>> was. >>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>> tipped >>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>> while >>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>> though >>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>> when >>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>> maccaroni >>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>> I >>>>> love >>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>> that, >>>>> anyhow. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>> learn >>>>> what >>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>> didn't >>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>> important... >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Serena >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>> >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>> it's >>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>> lines, >>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>> same >>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>> serving >>>>> the >>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>> family, do >>>>> you >>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>> for you? >>>>> >>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>> family >>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>> because it >>>>> is >>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>> reminded >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>> experience. >>>>> My >>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>> the >>>>> serving >>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>> own plate >>>>> and >>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>> precedent >>>>> that as >>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>> at >>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>> about >>>>> buffets, >>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>> same >>>>> things. >>>>> >>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Nov 13 05:06:41 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:06:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com><0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony><4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com><7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good idea since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are finished shopping. I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that problem too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to pay gas or something for it. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus > service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a > place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait > an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my > friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." > Beth > > On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >> Beth, >> >> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >> of opportunity. >> Courtney >> >> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>> me down there. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>> Hi Beth, >>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that >>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to >>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your >>>> day. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Heather Field >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke >>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold >>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>> >>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>> you >>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>> the >>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>> dishes >>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>> yourself from it. >>>>> >>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>> we >>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>> does >>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>> place >>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>> so >>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>> quickly >>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>> another >>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>> >>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>> how >>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>> >>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>> was. >>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>> tipped >>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>> while >>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>> though >>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>> when >>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>> I >>>>>> love >>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>> that, >>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>> learn >>>>>> what >>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>> important... >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>> it's >>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>> lines, >>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>> same >>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>> serving >>>>>> the >>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>> discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>> family, do >>>>>> you >>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>> for you? >>>>>> >>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>> family >>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>> because it >>>>>> is >>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>> reminded >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>> experience. >>>>>> My >>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>> the >>>>>> serving >>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>> own plate >>>>>> and >>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>> precedent >>>>>> that as >>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>> at >>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>> about >>>>>> buffets, >>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>> same >>>>>> things. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Nov 13 06:12:22 2008 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:12:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <001f01c94443$5d0ab450$0201a8c0@Serene> <922c02e40811120507u12de7570l1b438b6f1d1fd974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The Michigan convention is this weekend, but it's in Lansing and not Kalamazoo. Apparently the information was not updated when the convention site changed. In addition to the contacts you listed, there is also a youth outreach coordinator who would be willing to help out as well. The theme of our convention is Braille litercy and will highlight how Braille leads to the path of independence. It should be an exciting weekend. > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:30:20 +1100> From: arielle71 at gmail.com> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> > Hi Franandia,> > Sorry--I just saw your message saying that you are in Michigan. Have> you contacted anyone from the NFB of Michigan? They will hopefully> have some other ideas that you can pursue and may even be able to go> with you to meet with your teachers and convince them to take your> concerns seriously. You are absolutely right, it is beyond shameful> that you aren't getting Braille and you should never be expected to> use the sight you have--and the NFB people will understand that too.> > Here's info for the NFB of Michigan:> Fred Wurtzel, President> NFB of MI: 517-482-1800> E-mail:> f.wurtzel at comcast.net> Web site:> http://www.nfbmi.org/> > > The NFB of Michigan also has a group for parents of blind children> and teenagers. Perhaps your parents can talk to their president, or> you can to get advice about how to handle this situation. Contact:> Sharon Darga, President> Parents of Blind Children in Michigan> Cedar, Michigan> Phone: 231-947-3972> E-mail:> bossclaw at aol.com> Web site:> http://nfbparents.tripod.com/> > Finally, I saw that the NFB of Michigan is having its annual> convention in Kalamazoo this weekend. I know it's short notice, but> if you live near Kalamazoo you can go to the convention meetings> and talk to some of these people in person. Go to> www.nfbmi.org> to learn more about the convention.> > Cheers> Arielle Silverman> First Vice-President, NABS> > On 11/13/08, Franandah Damstra wrote:> > Hm...I never knew that. I should check this out...Thank you for the> > information.> >> > On 11/12/08, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote:> >> Bookshare is *free* for students. :) So, you should give it a try.> >>> >> Sydney> >>> >>> >>> >> On 11/11/08, Hope Paulos wrote:> >>> Serena is correct. You can get free bookshare accounts if you're a> >>> student.> >>> Go to the website and it will explain everything. I have one and it was> >>> real> >>> easy to obtain.> >>>> >>> Hope and Beignet> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On> >>> Behalf Of Serena> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:21 PM> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>> >>>> >>> I actually don't think that's true. I think you can get it for free> >>> cause> >>> you're a student. Look for an email from me to the NABS list with> >>> information about Bookshare. I sent it last night or the night before.> >>>> >>> Serena> >>>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----> >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:52 PM> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, I've looked at bookshare, and you have to pay for a membership.> >>>> Its quite expensive so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to.> >>>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Linda Stover wrote:> >>>>> Serena,> >>>>>> >>>>> I can see this applying to the books on the bookshare site. However,> >>>>> I'm not sure if the books requested are brailled as well as scanned.> >>>>> In essence, I'm not sure that the free scanning of said books would> >>>>> carry over to ordering a free braille copy. For anyone interested in> >>>>> a hard copy of a school-related book, this would be an interesting> >>>>> question to ask.> >>>>> Courtney> >>>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Serena wrote:> >>>>>> Hi Cortney and others> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Now, Bookshare does Braille books for free! Here's info from Allyson> >>>>>> Hillicker. Some of you may know her from various things, including> >>>>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind.> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bookshare will take book requests from college> >>>>>>>>students in addition to K-12 students. We work to fulfill all> >>>>>>>> textbook> >>>>>>>>requests as well as other books that one needs for school. As to> >>>>>>>>non-school> >>>>>>>>books we will fill requests on a case-by-case basis. We give> >>>>>>>> priority> >>>>>>>>to> >>>>>>>>non school related books that seem to have an educational benefit.> >>>>>>>> You> >>>>>>>>may> >>>>>>>>send book requests to me at allisonh at benetech.org or Carrie Karnos at> >>>>>>>>carriek at benetech.org. We both process requests, but Carrie does the> >>>>>>>>actual> >>>>>>>>scanning.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Any print disabled student, parent, teacher, or individual working> >>>>>>>> with> >>>>>>>>disabled students may request a book from Bookshare.org. In order to> >>>>>>>>download our books however, one must sign up for a Bookshare.org> >>>>>>>>membership.> >>>>>>>>Memberships are completely free to print disabled students at all> >>>>>>>>educational levels. Schools or groups serving disabled students may> >>>>>>>>also> >>>>>>>>sign up for free group memberships.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>To sign up, one can visit the following links-> >>>>>>>>Individual memberships> >>>>>>>>http://www.bookshare.org/web/AboutIndividualSubscriptions.html> >>>>>>>>School or group memberships> >>>>>>>>https://www.bookshare.org/web/MembersOrganizationJoinForm.html?join=Cre> >>> ate+a+School+or+Group+Account> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If you have specific questions about signup, please E-mail> >>>>>>>>Mandy Throckmorton at mandyt at benetech.org.> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Serena> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---- Original Message -----> >>>>>> From: "Linda Stover" > >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:43 PM> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello listers,> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena and several others broached this question, especially in> >>>>>>> connection to Franendiah, so I'll try and answer this the best I can.> >>>>>>> No, the books are not brailled free of charge, or at least, they were> >>>>>>> not the last time I checked. On the information page for each book,> >>>>>>> there is a link for ordering embossed copies of that book. When you> >>>>>>> click, it gives you pricing and shipping info. It would be nice if> >>>>>>> it> >>>>>>> were free *smile*> >>>>>>> Courtney> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote:> >>>>>>>> Hello Serena,> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you mean bookshare will braille books for you? Or, they will> >>>>>>>> braille> >>>>>>>> books for you at a charge?> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I work in the braille book area, and we can't and don't go on> >>>>>>>> handing> >>>>>>>> braille books for free to schools, students, etc. After all, our> >>>>>>>> transcribers, proofreaders and administrative people make a good> >>>>>>>> living> >>>>>>>> producing much needed, good quality braille.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If Book Share is able to braille books free of charge, I'd be> >>>>>>>> interested> >>>>>>>> to> >>>>>>>> know.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely,> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes> >>>>>>>> National Braille Press> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>>>> From: "Serena" > >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:45 PM> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have a subscription to Bookshare, bookshare will Braille> >>>>>>>>> books> >>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>> you. In case you don't know what bookshare is, it's a service> >>>>>>>>> where> >>>>>>>>> books> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> get scanned and then put on the websight. They have textbooks and> >>>>>>>>> pleasure books. The websight is www.bookshare.org.> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" > >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:04 PM> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've tried talking to people and all they say is "As long as> >>>>>>>>>> you> >>>>>>>>>> have sight, you need to use it." So, I can't get any braille. The> >>>>>>>>>> thing is, our family just doesn't have the money to pay for it> >>>>>>>>>> ourselves! Is there a way to get books in braille outside of> >>>>>>>>>> public> >>>>>>>>>> school services? Is there a way that I can prove that I "need> >>>>>>>>>> braille"? I'm just so beyond frustrated with both my school and my> >>>>>>>>>> parents. All my parents are thinking of is having a 'good> >>>>>>>>>> Christian> >>>>>>>>>> education and informant." But, they never though of what it would> >>>>>>>>>> be> >>>>>>>>>> like for a child with a disability. I'm not understanding> >>>>>>>>>> material,> >>>>>>>>>> I> >>>>>>>>>> have no friends, I get mocked, and I get up every morning crying> >>>>>>>>>> because I don't' want to go back to school. My parents just say> >>>>>>>>>> "Oh,> >>>>>>>>>> your being so over dramatic! It's really not all that bad! Maybe> >>>>>>>>>> if> >>>>>>>>>> you were positive about school it would to better for you!" It> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't> >>>>>>>>>> work that way though. I'm struggling so much and my parents just> >>>>>>>>>> don't> >>>>>>>>>> think I am working hard enough. How can you work harder than your> >>>>>>>>>> best? How do you react? What do you do? I mean, Ive threatened to> >>>>>>>>>> just> >>>>>>>>>> drop out and leave I'm no unhappy, they don't care. I've already> >>>>>>>>>> told> >>>>>>>>>> them I'm not going to collage. How could I? My high school> >>>>>>>>>> experience> >>>>>>>>>> is so bad that I know I just can't go on. What do I do?> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/08, Rachel Becker wrote:> >>>>>>>>>>> I know someone who went to private school in Philadelphia and> >>>>>>>>>>> went> >>>>>>>>>>> to> >>>>>>>>>>> private school and he got Braille services. He's totally blind.> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On> >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Sydney Walker Freedman> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM> >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> oh that's terrible! The issue here is that private schools don't> >>>>>>>>>>> have> >>>>>>>>>>> their own vision staff, braille transcribers, equipment, etc. and> >>>>>>>>>>> don't have access to the staff, equipment, etc. from public> >>>>>>>>>>> schools> >>>>>>>>>>> (at least this was true for Arizona). However, thre should be> >>>>>>>>>>> some> >>>>>>>>>>> way to still get services. For example, a good friend of mine> >>>>>>>>>>> went> >>>>>>>>>>> to> >>>>>>>>>>> a private school but received Braille services and time with a> >>>>>>>>>>> vision> >>>>>>>>>>> teacher through the public school where I went. Another thought> >>>>>>>>>>> is> >>>>>>>>>>> to> >>>>>>>>>>> talk to the people at your school and tell them what you are> >>>>>>>>>>> going> >>>>>>>>>>> through and that you *need* braille. If they aren't willing to> >>>>>>>>>>> do> >>>>>>>>>>> something or to find a way to get something done, then, well,> >>>>>>>>>>> they> >>>>>>>>>>> aren't doing their Christian duty, as it were. I can understand> >>>>>>>>>>> a> >>>>>>>>>>> school not having money or resources, but in that case, effort> >>>>>>>>>>> and> >>>>>>>>>>> research can do a lot. Good luck! Feel free to e-mail me off> >>>>>>>>>>> list.> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pax Christi,> >>>>>>>>>>> Sydney> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/08, Franandiah Damstra > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone. I'm new here and I just want to say, YOU ALL ARE> >>>>>>>>>>>> LUCKY! I go to a very small christian private schools, and I get> >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing! I get "enlarged" assignments and extended tests, but> >>>>>>>>>>>> that> >>>>>>>>>>>> is> >>>>>>>>>>>> about it. Though I know braille, nobody will provide it for me.> >>>>>>>>>>>> My> >>>>>>>>>>>> sight is 20/800. I am colour blind, I don't have either preferal> >>>>>>>>>>>> vision or depth perseption and yet all I ever hear is "Oh, you> >>>>>>>>>>>> have> >>>>>>>>>>>> some sight so use it!" So consider yourselves VERY lucky. I> >>>>>>>>>>>> would> >>>>>>>>>>>> do> >>>>>>>>>>>> anything to get braille books. I can't read this print much> >>>>>>>>>>>> longer,> >>>>>>>>>>>> I> >>>>>>>>>>>> go home crying because my eyes are burning so badly. You all are> >>>>>>>>>>>> luckier than you know.> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/4/08, hannah wrote:> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All of my materials are brailled or on audio, but I don't get> >>>>>>>>>>>>> extra time on tests...> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were> >>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania,> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and> >>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on> >>>>>>>>>>>>> tests.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially> >>>>>>>>>>>>> though.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was> >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other> >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use?> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been> >>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not?> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille> >>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts,> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma> >>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>>>>>>>>>>> info> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g> >>>>>>>>>>> mail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account> >>>>>>>>>>>> info> >>>>>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.ed> >>>>>>>>>>> u> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu> >>>>>>>>>>> ltants.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g> >>> mail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo> >>> n.net> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info> >>>>>>>>> for> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l:> >>>>>>>>>> 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_______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com> >> > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008 From graduate56 at juno.com Thu Nov 13 08:38:08 2008 From: graduate56 at juno.com (melissa R. Green) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:38:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> Carrie, Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I only got every three to four months. My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my hands. I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the colorado center. I knew how to do it. But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. Lol! Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training centers. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. Beth On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least > with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > Albert, > I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; > although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and enjoy > > it. > Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go > to some and get something out of it. She said > > "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >> and going to parties and such." > > It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness > should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that is > what you want to do. > No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a play > at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of > cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk > there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food court. > Some students go in groups; others go alone. > Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or > baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is > difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening then. > > However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or anyone > > wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is > fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to go > to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy and > > most are just acquaintances, not close friends. > But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >> >> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or ice > >> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >> you were alone. Albert >> >> >>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless at > >>> a >>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>> if >>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going to >>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>> should >>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>> So people do do big things alone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>> people >>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a recent >>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>> golf! >>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>> person >>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>> ask >>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>> in >>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>> to >>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>> (like >>>>> one >>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>> lol--and >>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>> Spanish >>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>> is >>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>> these >>>>> feelings. >>>>> >>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>> thing, >>>>> not >>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>> else >>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>> sports >>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>> that >>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>> say--but >>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>> is >>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>> way >>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>> person >>>>> to >>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>> adapted >>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>> I >>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration and >>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>> >>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>> and >>>>> this >>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>> found >>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. > >>>>>> I >>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>> people >>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>> them >>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school >>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often >>>>> that >>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it >>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>> listen to >>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>> lunch on >>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>> though >>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>> you >>>>> walk >>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>> skill >>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>> other >>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>> days >>>>> I >>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>> high >>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't >>>>> have >>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>> just too >>>>>> busy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail > .com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns > !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: 11/5/2008 5:36 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 7:01 PM ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ From graduate56 at juno.com Thu Nov 13 08:38:03 2008 From: graduate56 at juno.com (melissa R. Green) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:38:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> I am a little behind. So saved this message to respond to. Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. One time I was really sick. I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped at my foot. I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use them. Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in employment readiness. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 7:01 PM ____________________________________________________________ Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 12:43:42 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811130443g34028b1ib1951288f41e8663@mail.gmail.com> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff problem now whle I don't have a tray? Beth On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > > If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good idea > since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are > finished shopping. > > I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that problem > too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she > drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing > faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to > pay gas or something for it. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >> Beth >> >> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>> Beth, >>> >>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>> of opportunity. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>> me down there. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>> >>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray that >>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you to >>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact your >>>>> day. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Heather Field >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I spoke >>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to hold >>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>> >>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>> you >>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>> the >>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>> dishes >>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>> we >>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>> does >>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>> place >>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>> so >>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>> quickly >>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>> another >>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>> >>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>> how >>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>>> >>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>> was. >>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>> tipped >>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>> while >>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>> though >>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>> when >>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> love >>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>>> that, >>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>>> important... >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>> serving >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>> family >>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>> because it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>> My >>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> serving >>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>> that as >>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From blindhistory at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 13:24:43 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:24:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> Message-ID: It seems now that copiers are all touch screen. How is a blind person supposed to use the copier if it is a touch screen. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:38 AM, melissa R. Green wrote: > I am a little behind. > So saved this message to respond to. > Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. > One time I was really sick. > I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped at > my > foot. > I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my > appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. > You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use > them. > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of > Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- > > You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, > take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to > seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a > pharmacy. > > Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how > many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a > fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay > that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help > in > employment readiness. > > > > > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 > 9:36 > AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 13:59:14 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:59:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in school In-Reply-To: References: <5B3809E2810B4B5BA8D0051AEB6C2FDA@D1GMNL91> <4383d01d0811092247s318b4cfetad76327609acfbf6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811100711y407b5137kcbfd6b782c8befd3@mail.gmail.com> <909A4D9691E34A06ACF342C7A57941B3@Ashley> <4383d01d0811111928n3044af5ch2e815fbbe7552b04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I live in Michigan. I'm really open for anything at the moment so any help would be greatly appreciated. On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Franandia, > > Forgive me if you've already told us, but what state are you in? I may > be able to suggest people in your state to talk to. > > Arielle > > On 11/13/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Lol thanks Antonio for talking about me like I'm not here. lol Yeah, >> I'm working on trying to get things figured out. It is jsut very >> frustrating. Hopefully, by next year we can get things settled. >> >> On 11/11/08, Beth wrote: >>> You're right, Ashley.Beth >>> >>> On 11/11/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Franandah, >>>> >>>> I don't think you can sue or talk to a lawyer because you are a minor. >>>> Threats won't help them. If you bring an advocate in and they threaten >>>> that >>>> has more weight, but from you its ignored. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:56 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in school >>>> >>>> >>>>> Actually, I have thretened to sew more than once, but...I just really >>>>> don't want it to get to that, I mean...it would just be so hard. My >>>>> school just doesn't know how to deal with me at all and my parents are >>>>> confused. They try to make the school to understand, but they also >>>>> yell at me saying that I just don't try good enough and that I'm not >>>>> doing my best. I just don't know. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Talk to your parents and absolutely sway them to let you switch >>>>>> schools. If your parents won't let you or decide that you will go to >>>>>> a school that's worse than this one, I'd take it to a lawyer and tell >>>>>> them that you don't want your parents making decisions about your >>>>>> education for you. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you for all the help. Yes, my vision is 20/800 if that says >>>>>>> anything. I can't tell you how much I want to swich schools, but my >>>>>>> parents won't let me and my school just doesn't help me. I go to the >>>>>>> doctors every year, but won't have my yearly check up until February, >>>>>>> so. I can only hold on till then until I can beg my doctor to knock >>>>>>> some sense into my stupid teachers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Do what ashley says, FFranandiah. This will help you a great deal. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/9/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Frandandiah, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I read your account of your struggles with obtaining >>>>>>>>> accomodations >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> private school and its rather sad. I would think they would see it >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> Christian duty to try and educate you. You say they are not even >>>>>>>>> providing >>>>>>>>> adaquate large print and braille is nonexistant. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>>> private >>>>>>>>> schools are not legally bound to provide accomodations. Why can't >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> switch to public school? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your parents and teachers are making demands on you to "use your >>>>>>>>> sight" >>>>>>>>> further than you can do. I hope you've explained you use the >>>>>>>>> vision >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> have but it is not adaquate to meet your academic needs such as >>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>> lots >>>>>>>>> of books. The signs you described should be convincing: visual >>>>>>>>> strain, >>>>>>>>> crying from the frustration, fatigued, and slow reading. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Have you had an eye exam? An eye exam will show your visual >>>>>>>>> deficits. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The best solution is to switch schools. But if you can't, here are >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> ideas. Obtain books through Recording for the Blind www.rfbd.org. >>>>>>>>> Use >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> service called Bookshare online; they have scanned texts and >>>>>>>>> pleasure >>>>>>>>> books; >>>>>>>>> www.bookshare.org. >>>>>>>>> Have you considered readers? Ask teachers to email or put >>>>>>>>> worksheets >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> paper matterial on disk. Then in school with a laptop or desktop, >>>>>>>>> enlarge >>>>>>>>> it to the best font for you. This way you won't strain to read. >>>>>>>>> How about looking for audio books through other sources such as >>>>>>>>> Amazon.com >>>>>>>>> or audible.com. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can use the following sources assuming you are legally blind: >>>>>>>>> National library service for the blind; this is run through the >>>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>>> although federally funded; they have braille, large print and tape >>>>>>>>> books, >>>>>>>>> called talking books. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> American Printing house for the blind; www.aph.org >>>>>>>>> I think they record books and sell products. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> American Foundation for the Blind www.afb.org. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley H Bramlett >>>>>>>>> Undergraduate Student >>>>>>>>> Marymount University >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3600 (20081110) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 13 18:40:00 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:40:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> Message-ID: These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about learning/bettering them? Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa R. Green Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned I am a little behind. So saved this message to respond to. Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. One time I was really sick. I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped at my foot. I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use them. Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in employment readiness. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co m No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 7:01 PM ____________________________________________________________ Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 20:38:53 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:38:53 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> Message-ID: Hi all, At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping your fingers around the drink if there is one. It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either under the plate or in your pocket. The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as you move through the store. I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way out. Cheers Arielle On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: > Carrie, > Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. > I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. > To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I > only > got every three to four months. > My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. > I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my > hands. > I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the > colorado > center. > I knew how to do it. > But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. > Lol! > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of > Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the > glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to > slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. > I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long > and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training > centers. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > > You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I > am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Albert, >> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and > enjoy >> >> it. >> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >> to some and get something out of it. She said >> >> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such." >> >> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that > is >> what you want to do. >> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a > play >> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food > court. >> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening > then. >> >> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or > anyone >> >> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to > go >> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy > and >> >> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Albert Yoo" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>> >>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or > ice >> >>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>> you were alone. Albert >>> >>> >>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless > at >> >>>> a >>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>> if >>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going > to >>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>> should >>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a > recent >>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>> golf! >>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>> in >>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>> to >>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>> (like >>>>>> one >>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>> lol--and >>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>> Spanish >>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>> these >>>>>> feelings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>> thing, >>>>>> not >>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>> else >>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>> sports >>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>> that >>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>> say--but >>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>> is >>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>> way >>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> to >>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>> adapted >>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>> I >>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration > and >>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>> and >>>>>> this >>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>> found >>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on > this. >> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>> people >>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>> because >>>>>> I >>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade > school >>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often >>>>>> that >>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel > it >>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>> listen to >>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>> you >>>>>> walk >>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>> skill >>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>> days >>>>>> I >>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't >>>>>> have >>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>> just too >>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >> .com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>> >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: 11/5/2008 > 5:36 > PM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 21:09:38 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:09:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what I mean? Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with > your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping > your fingers around the drink if there is one. > > It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your > non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either > under the plate or in your pocket. > > The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and > cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. > > As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be > challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around > you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the > salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" > > One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a > place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for > audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or > background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as > you move through the store. > > I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've > sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant > and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that > subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm > lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, > it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able > to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way > out. > > Cheers > Arielle > > On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >> Carrie, >> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I >> only >> got every three to four months. >> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my >> hands. >> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >> colorado >> center. >> I knew how to do it. >> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >> Lol! >> >> >> Best regards, >> Sincerely, >> Melissa R. Green >> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of >> Carrie Gilmer >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> >> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to >> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >> cane. >> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long >> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >> centers. >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >> >> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >> Beth >> >> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> Albert, >>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >> enjoy >>> >>> it. >>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>> go >>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>> >>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>> and going to parties and such." >>> >>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that >> is >>> what you want to do. >>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >> play >>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>> walk >>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >> court. >>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >> then. >>> >>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >> anyone >>> >>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to >> go >>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy >> and >>> >>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>> to >>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >> ice >>> >>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>>> you were alone. Albert >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> Beth, >>>>> >>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless >> at >>> >>>>> a >>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>>> if >>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going >> to >>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>> should >>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >> recent >>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>>> ask >>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>> talk >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>> (like >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>> else >>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>>> sports >>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>> activities >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >> and >>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>> with, >>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> found >>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >> this. >>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >> school >>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >> often >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel >> it >>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> days >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >> don't >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> n.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>> ink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>> .com >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>> >>> >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>> ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: 11/5/2008 >> 5:36 >> PM >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 >> 7:01 >> PM >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Nov 13 21:23:57 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:23:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: For Nfb Lists, giving away braille copy of "Method Of Organ Playing) Message-ID: >From: "Judy Jones" >To: >Subject: For Nfb Lists, giving away braille copy of "Method Of Organ Playing) >Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:18:15 -0800 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave >Please advertise on NFB lists. > >No charge for this four volume braille book, in nearly-mint >condition, dealing withpipe organ technique and history. Please >respond via email to >judy.t.jones at earthlink no later than >November 18. Thanks David Andrews and white cane Harry. From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 13 23:14:09 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:14:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> Message-ID: Arielle, As usual, you provide great tips. Another thing to consider is that some of the nicest people I've met have been in food lines - I've had to ask them for help or they see I look lost and offer to. So don't be shy my friends! What am I talking about? I'm still shy ... anyway I guess we all have skills we can work on. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays Hi all, At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping your fingers around the drink if there is one. It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either under the plate or in your pocket. The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as you move through the store. I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way out. Cheers Arielle On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: > Carrie, > Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. > I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. > To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I > only > got every three to four months. > My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. > I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my > hands. > I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the > colorado > center. > I knew how to do it. > But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. > Lol! > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of > Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the > glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start to > slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the cane. > I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that long > and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training > centers. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > > You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I > am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. > Beth > > On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At least >> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> Albert, >> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and > enjoy >> >> it. >> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can go >> to some and get something out of it. She said >> >> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>> and going to parties and such." >> >> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think blindness >> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if that > is >> what you want to do. >> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a > play >> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily walk >> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food > court. >> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening > then. >> >> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or > anyone >> >> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that is >> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like to > go >> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're busy > and >> >> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Albert Yoo" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >> >> >>> >>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go to >>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or > ice >> >>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium if >>> you were alone. Albert >>> >>> >>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. Unless > at >> >>>> a >>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is weird >>>> if >>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not going > to >>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants and >>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>> should >>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered a >>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I love >>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go down >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a > recent >>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>> golf! >>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. Een >>>>>> in >>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I talk >>>>>> to >>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>> (like >>>>>> one >>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>> lol--and >>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>> Spanish >>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>> these >>>>>> feelings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>> thing, >>>>>> not >>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>> else >>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on the >>>>>> sports >>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular activities >>>>>> that >>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>> say--but >>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that it >>>>>> is >>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it the >>>>>> way >>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> to >>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help that >>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>> adapted >>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, but >>>>>> I >>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration > and >>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old, >>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you >>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with, >>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it >>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. I >>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked >>>>>>> and >>>>>> this >>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have >>>>>> found >>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on > this. >> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, >>>>>> people >>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>> because >>>>>> I >>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade > school >>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is > often >>>>>> that >>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel > it >>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>> listen to >>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can >>>>>>> you >>>>>> walk >>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your >>>>>> skill >>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these >>>>>>> days >>>>>> I >>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they > don't >>>>>> have >>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>> just too >>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >> .com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>> >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co m > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: 11/5/2008 > 5:36 > PM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD 1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Nov 13 23:17:01 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:17:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><004b01c9442c$bcb30b30$0201a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com><0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony><4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com><7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811130443g34028b1ib1951288f41e8663@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c945e5$ef307f10$0201a8c0@Serene> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean to say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in college. The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. I think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to deal with the cafeteria scene. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff > problem now whle I don't have a tray? > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> >> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >> idea >> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are >> finished shopping. >> >> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >> problem >> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to >> pay gas or something for it. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>> of opportunity. >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>> me down there. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>> that >>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>> to >>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>> your >>>>>> day. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>> spoke >>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>> hold >>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>> place >>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>> another >>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>> was. >>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 23:49:24 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <00cb01c945e5$ef307f10$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811130443g34028b1ib1951288f41e8663@mail.gmail.com> <00cb01c945e5$ef307f10$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811131549o2515870et82932534e051d550@mail.gmail.com> The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is because there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me today when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager saying what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just bring it to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if it appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my basic needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd have to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who said the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in that manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's comments as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division of Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer dollars going into MY meal plan. Beth On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: > Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean to > say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in college. > The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. I > think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the > managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own > tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and > dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to > deal with the cafeteria scene. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff >> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Beth, >>> >>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >>> idea >>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are >>> finished shopping. >>> >>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >>> problem >>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to >>> pay gas or something for it. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> >>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>>> of opportunity. >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>>> me down there. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>>> hold >>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 14 00:20:00 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:20:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Message-ID: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or merely a student? Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is because >there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me today >when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager saying >what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just bring it >to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if it >appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my basic >needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd have >to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who said >the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in that >manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's comments >as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division of >Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer dollars >going into MY meal plan. >Beth >On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean to >> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in college. >> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. I >> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the >> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own >> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and >> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to >> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> Serena >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff >>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>> Beth >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >>>> idea >>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are >>>> finished shopping. >>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >>>> problem >>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to >>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>> Beth >>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath er%40comcast.net >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt en%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 00:34:36 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:34:36 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811131549o2515870et82932534e051d550@mail.gmail.com> References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com> <0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony> <4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com> <7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811130443g34028b1ib1951288f41e8663@mail.gmail.com> <00cb01c945e5$ef307f10$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811131549o2515870et82932534e051d550@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth and all, I've dined in lots of dining hall/food court situations and rarely, if ever, had the luxury of a tray. I honestly think a tray is usually more bother than it's worth--especially when they're gigantic like Serena has described. The only time a tray might be helpful is when you're getting multiple plates, or a plate and a beverage. But usually what I do in that situation is get my plate, set it down wherever I want to sit, and then go get my drink. Of course I know keeping track of where you were sitting is a challenge--but there's a couple ways around that. Of course, you can just keep real good track of the route you took from your table to the drink area and then reverse it. I understand that can be easier said than done when the cafeteria is very crowded, though. Sometimes when I know the route will be really curvy from my table to the drink line or whatever, I'll ask the people I am sitting with if they could do me a favor and call out my name when I'm walking back so I know where the table is. Or you can just find out who you're sitting next to and call out their names when you approach your table. I'll just add that I am not a stellar indoor traveler and I definitely understand these things can be easier said than done at times. Just the other day I got real turned around in my school food court (the cash registers weren't as loud as usual) and I had to ask directions to find my way out after I got my food. But in spite of the challenges, I'd still rather take care of my food independently, since then I have total control over what I'm getting. Also I'm doing it just like everyone else--and not putting responsibility on anybody else. Having staff help you is fine--I have nothing against that--but if they're busy or unwilling to help you, just know that these are some other options you can try. Cheers Arielle On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: > The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is because > there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me today > when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager saying > what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just bring it > to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if it > appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my basic > needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd have > to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who said > the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in that > manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's comments > as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of > dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division of > Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer dollars > going into MY meal plan. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean >> to >> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in >> college. >> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. I >> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the >> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own >> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and >> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to >> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff >>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >>>> idea >>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are >>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >>>> problem >>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer >>>> to >>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> >>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting >>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>>>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>>>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>>>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>>>>>>> area. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>>>>>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>>>>>>> handle >>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>>>>>>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Nov 14 00:37:13 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:37:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <837050.20150.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4383d01d0811121402j2988293br32d486ac47088633@mail.gmail.com><0C86ABFE7BDD4EC8A7EDC88B8B315ED5@heathersony><4383d01d0811121522m7924ca4ehdaa863678f8359bd@mail.gmail.com><7949e5e20811121742t3c128335nc029003477d059b7@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811121934j60325d1bn81b60a964ba5f385@mail.gmail.com><4383d01d0811130443g34028b1ib1951288f41e8663@mail.gmail.com><00cb01c945e5$ef307f10$0201a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0811131549o2515870et82932534e051d550@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004b01c945f1$23dbc4d0$0201a8c0@Serene> Great point about just letting someone bring the food to you, as long as you know there's someone around to do it. That's something my friend Anthony got into my head: "You're not really proving anything to us or yourself by walking with us to get food cause you can't carry it and you're not really orienting much." I got my share of independence in the pub, a fast-food place downstairs from the dining hall. The cool thing was there were no trays necessary. The person at the grill line would simply wrap my grilled cheese sandwich and mozzerella sticks in tin foil. All anybody really had to do was direct me to the grill and get me a bottle of juice. All I had to do to find a table was walk straight out of the food area! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is because > there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me today > when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager saying > what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just bring it > to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if it > appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my basic > needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd have > to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who said > the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in that > manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's comments > as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of > dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division of > Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer dollars > going into MY meal plan. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean >> to >> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in >> college. >> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. >> I >> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the >> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own >> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and >> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to >> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff >>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >>>> idea >>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your >>>> are >>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >>>> problem >>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer >>>> to >>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> >>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>>>>> aren't >>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>>>>>> option, >>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting >>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>>>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>>>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>>>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>>>>>>> area. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>>>>>> holding >>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>>>>>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>>>>>>> handle >>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>>>>>>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>>>>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>>>>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>>>>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 02:00:21 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:00:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com><00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> Message-ID: <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> Sara, I also need to develop those skills. I know little about health care since my parents take me to the doctors when needed. Here are some ideas. Next time you go to the doctor, make your own appointment. Obviously you'll need a ride there. If you need a prescription filled later, first time go to the pharmacy with a parent or someone you trust. They can explain what to do. Sometimes you can phone in prescriptions depending on the drug store. Then later when the prescription is filled you just walk in with identification and I think your insurance card and retrieve the medicine. I know health care is free in Cananda but usually in the US you'll pay a small amount for medicine when you get it and your insurance pays the rest. Personally, I'd rather not visit a doctor's office alone due to the paperwork. I want to fill it out with someone I know; its confidential info. If you were alone, I suppose a nurse or someone would act as your scribe. As to buying over the counter medicine, I think you buy it with customer service help just as you would any other item. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about > learning/bettering them? > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of melissa R. Green > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > I am a little behind. > So saved this message to respond to. > Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. > One time I was really sick. > I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped > at > my > foot. > I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my > appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. > You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use > them. > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of > Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- > > You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, > take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to > seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a > pharmacy. > > Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how > many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a > fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as > well-okay > that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help > in > employment readiness. > > > > > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co > m > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 > 9:36 > AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B > 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 02:10:26 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:10:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, Actually your description does not make sense. Here at my university we have a contractor do the food service. Its set up in stations and the cash register is at the entrance of the cafeteria. You pick up your tray and utensils and go to whereever you want and get plates or bowls at the stations as needed. Most food stays the same such as pizza, pasta, salad bar, and grill. The entrees change. I get assistance from the staff. Some are more helpful than others. The trays are big and I've had issues carrying food level with one hand since my cane in the other and besides the trays are big and I have small hands. Therefore I have assistance in carrying my food. I think hiring readers and the extra work I have academically for advocacy, setting appointments for tests, etc is more important to work on here than dealing with the loud, chaos driven, cafeteria scene. I do handle it more alone at food courts though. Those lighter trays are more manageable to me. I just walk up to the food station and ask the staff or someone else what is on the menu and then order, pay and sit down at a table. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've > had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much > chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line > and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what > I mean? > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >> >> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >> under the plate or in your pocket. >> >> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >> >> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >> >> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >> you move through the store. >> >> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >> out. >> >> Cheers >> Arielle >> >> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>> Carrie, >>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I >>> only >>> got every three to four months. >>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my >>> hands. >>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >>> colorado >>> center. >>> I knew how to do it. >>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>> Lol! >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa R. Green >>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of >>> Carrie Gilmer >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>> >>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>> to >>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>> cane. >>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>> long >>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >>> centers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>> >>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>> least >>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Albert, >>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>> enjoy >>>> >>>> it. >>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>>> go >>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>> >>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>> >>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>> blindness >>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>> that >>> is >>>> what you want to do. >>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>> play >>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>> walk >>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>> court. >>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>> then. >>>> >>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>> anyone >>>> >>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>> is >>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>> to >>> go >>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>> busy >>> and >>>> >>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>>> to >>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>> ice >>>> >>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>> if >>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>> Unless >>> at >>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>> weird >>>>>> if >>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>> and >>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>> should >>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered >>>>>> a >>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>> recent >>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>> and >>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>> this. >>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>> school >>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>> often >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>> feel >>> it >>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>> don't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>> n.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>> ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>>> >>>> >>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>> ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>> 11/5/2008 >>> 5:36 >>> PM >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>> 11/12/2008 >>> 7:01 >>> PM >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 02:19:07 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:19:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Hi Hope, I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some of the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the > union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to the > cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each > station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. > This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off > of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's > a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the woman > said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or > merely a student? > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is > because >>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me > today >>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager > saying >>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just > bring it >>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if > it >>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my > basic >>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd > have >>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who > said >>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in > that >>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's > comments >>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division > of >>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer > dollars >>going into MY meal plan. >>Beth > >>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I > don't mean to >>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food > in college. >>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small > hands. I >>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but > then, the >>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've > bought my own >>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to > campus and >>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than > trying to >>> deal with the cafeteria scene. > >>> Serena > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the > staff >>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>> Beth > >>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, > >>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a > good >>>>> idea >>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before > your are >>>>> finished shopping. > >>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had > that >>>>> problem >>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate > if she >>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice > nursing >>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride > offer to >>>>> pay gas or something for it. > >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate > a >>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have > to wait >>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, > my >>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>> Beth > >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to > take >>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next > window >>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>> Courtney > >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to > bring >>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. > >>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of > them >>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive > tray >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with > you >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your > ability >>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to > impact >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> day. > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge > problem >>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get > my >>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right > hand >>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre > than >>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to > maneuver >>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff > has >>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I > needed >>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people > aren't >>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. > I >>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have > to >>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with > holding >>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The > first >>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the > second >>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the > serving >>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. > >>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an > option, >>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead > of >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the > food/setting up >>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the > buffet >>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself > independently >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since > it's >>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. > >>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to > overcome >>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I > was a >>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics > of >>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved > at >>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center > where >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal > for >>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils > correctly >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, > and >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > >>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to > feel >>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the > weight is >>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that > I'm >>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and > feel >>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is > spreading. >>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll > be >>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide > area. > >>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to > serve >>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest > time with >>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my > problem >>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was > holding >>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I > had to >>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the > bowl >>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people > have >>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I > bring it >>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel > (like >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant > hand >>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the > handle >>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. > >>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>> Arielle > > >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will > fit. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece > of >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do > you >>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because > I >>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree > it is >>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I > think >>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on > buffet >>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a > survor >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>> discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>>> for you? > >>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate > at >>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew > where >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so > diferent >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. > >>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. > >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu > e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 > %40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath > er%40comcast.net > > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt > en%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus >>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ > >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From yvgarcia at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 02:25:43 2008 From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:25:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> Beth, I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is going with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene as well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, you'll feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found orientation to the lay out. Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better understanding of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each passing time. To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it at the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip while firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from your body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the tray in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and middle finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side of your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as my students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty plate, cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting while still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing for the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe you assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm room or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and ease in no time. Hope this helps. Warmest Regards, Yolanda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've > had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much > chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line > and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what > I mean? > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >> >> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >> under the plate or in your pocket. >> >> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >> >> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >> >> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >> you move through the store. >> >> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >> out. >> >> Cheers >> Arielle >> >> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>> Carrie, >>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I >>> only >>> got every three to four months. >>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my >>> hands. >>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >>> colorado >>> center. >>> I knew how to do it. >>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>> Lol! >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa R. Green >>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of >>> Carrie Gilmer >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>> >>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>> to >>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>> cane. >>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>> long >>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >>> centers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>> >>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>> least >>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> Albert, >>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>> enjoy >>>> >>>> it. >>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>>> go >>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>> >>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>> >>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>> blindness >>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>> that >>> is >>>> what you want to do. >>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>> play >>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>> walk >>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>> court. >>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>> then. >>>> >>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>> anyone >>>> >>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>> is >>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>> to >>> go >>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>> busy >>> and >>>> >>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>>> to >>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>> ice >>>> >>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>> if >>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>> Unless >>> at >>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>> weird >>>>>> if >>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>> going >>> to >>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>> and >>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>> should >>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered >>>>>> a >>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>> recent >>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>> and >>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>> this. >>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>> school >>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>> often >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>> feel >>> it >>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>> don't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>> n.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>> ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>>> >>>> >>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>> ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>> 11/5/2008 >>> 5:36 >>> PM >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>> 11/12/2008 >>> 7:01 >>> PM >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 03:05:58 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:05:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811131905xdf36281hc9d00cad2604183f@mail.gmail.com> Sounds a lot easier. Beth On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > Actually your description does not make sense. Here at my university we > have a contractor do the food service. Its set up in stations and the cash > register > is at the entrance of the cafeteria. > You pick up your tray and utensils and go to whereever you want and get > plates or bowls at the stations as needed. Most food stays the same such as > pizza, pasta, salad bar, and grill. The entrees change. > I get assistance from the staff. Some are more helpful than others. The > trays are big and I've had issues carrying food level with one hand since my > cane in the other and besides the trays are big and I have small hands. > Therefore I have assistance in carrying my food. I think hiring readers and > the extra work I have academically for advocacy, setting appointments for > tests, etc is more important to work on here than dealing with the loud, > chaos driven, cafeteria scene. > > I do handle it more alone at food courts though. Those lighter trays are > more manageable to me. > I just walk up to the food station and ask the staff or someone else what is > on the menu and then order, pay and sit down at a table. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >> I mean? >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>> >>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>> >>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>> >>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>> >>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>> you move through the store. >>> >>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>> out. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>> Carrie, >>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I >>>> only >>>> got every three to four months. >>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my >>>> hands. >>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >>>> colorado >>>> center. >>>> I knew how to do it. >>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>> Lol! >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa R. Green >>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of >>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>> >>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>>> to >>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>> cane. >>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>> long >>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >>>> centers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>> >>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>> least >>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> Albert, >>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>>> enjoy >>>>> >>>>> it. >>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>>>> go >>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>> >>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>> >>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>> blindness >>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>> that >>>> is >>>>> what you want to do. >>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>>> play >>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>> walk >>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>> court. >>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>>> then. >>>>> >>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>> anyone >>>>> >>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>>> is >>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>> busy >>>> and >>>>> >>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>>>> to >>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>>> ice >>>>> >>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>> if >>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>> Unless >>>> at >>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>> weird >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>> going >>>> to >>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>> recent >>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>>> and >>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>> this. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>> school >>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>> often >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>> it >>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>> don't >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>> 11/5/2008 >>>> 5:36 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>> 11/12/2008 >>>> 7:01 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 03:13:57 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:13:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, not just cook and wash dishes. Beth On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Hope, > > I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the > stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have > table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some of > the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to the >> >> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. >> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off >> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's >> >> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the woman >> >> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >> merely a student? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >> because >>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >> today >>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >> saying >>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >> bring it >>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >> it >>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >> basic >>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >> have >>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >> said >>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >> that >>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >> comments >>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >> of >>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >> dollars >>>going into MY meal plan. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >> don't mean to >>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >> in college. >>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >> hands. I >>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >> then, the >>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >> bought my own >>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >> campus and >>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >> trying to >>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >>>> Serena >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >> staff >>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >> good >>>>>> idea >>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >> your are >>>>>> finished shopping. >> >>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >> that >>>>>> problem >>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >> if she >>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >> nursing >>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >> offer to >>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >> a >>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >> to wait >>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >> my >>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >> take >>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >> window >>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>> Courtney >> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >> bring >>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >> them >>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >> tray >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >> you >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >> ability >>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >> impact >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> day. >> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >> problem >>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >> my >>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >> hand >>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >> than >>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >> maneuver >>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >> has >>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >> needed >>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >> aren't >>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >> I >>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >> to >>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >> holding >>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >> first >>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >> second >>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >> serving >>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >> >>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >> option, >>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >> of >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >> independently >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >> it's >>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >> overcome >>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >> was a >>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >> of >>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >> at >>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >> where >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >> for >>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >> and >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >> weight is >>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >> be >>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >> area. >> >>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >> serve >>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >> time with >>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >> problem >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >> holding >>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >> had to >>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >> bowl >>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >> have >>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >> bring it >>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >> (like >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >> hand >>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >> handle >>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece >> of >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >> you >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >> it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >> where >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >> er%40comcast.net >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >> en%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus >>>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 03:40:27 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:40:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your food. Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room layouts including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a cafeteria line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best medicine for this condition. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or merely a student? Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is because >there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me today >when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager saying >what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just bring it >to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if it >appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my basic >needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd have >to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who said >the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in that >manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's comments >as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division of >Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer dollars >going into MY meal plan. >Beth >On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I don't mean to >> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food in college. >> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small hands. I >> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but then, the >> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've bought my own >> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to campus and >> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than trying to >> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> Serena >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the staff >>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>> Beth >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a good >>>> idea >>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before your are >>>> finished shopping. >>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had that >>>> problem >>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate if she >>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice nursing >>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride offer to >>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate a >>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have to wait >>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, my >>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>> Beth >>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to take >>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next window >>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to bring >>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of them >>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive tray >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your ability >>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to impact >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge problem >>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get my >>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right hand >>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre than >>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to maneuver >>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff has >>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I needed >>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people aren't >>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. I >>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have to >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with holding >>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The first >>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the second >>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the serving >>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an option, >>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead of >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the food/setting up >>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the buffet >>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself independently >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since it's >>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to overcome >>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve ourselves >>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I was a >>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics of >>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved at >>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center where >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal for >>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils correctly >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, and >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to feel >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the weight is >>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that I'm >>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and feel >>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is spreading. >>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll be >>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide area. >>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to serve >>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest time with >>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my problem >>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was holding >>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I had to >>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the bowl >>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people have >>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I bring it >>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel (like >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant hand >>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the handle >>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will fit. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece of >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do you >>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because I >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree it is >>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I think >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on buffet >>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a survor >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate at >>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew where >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve ourselves >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so diferent >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath er%40comcast.net >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt en%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizon.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From marisa at dinf.ne.jp Fri Nov 14 04:02:13 2008 From: marisa at dinf.ne.jp (Marisa DeMeglio) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:02:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] [Amis-users] AMIS 3 Beta 4 is ready for testing Message-ID: AMIS 3, the free and open source DAISY player for Windows, has just reached its fourth beta release, which is likely to be the last beta before a stable release. This means it's the last chance to stress- test it before widespread distribution. What's new in beta 4? Improvements were made to internationalization, accessibility, and overall reading experience; and specific requests have been implemented. There are two new notable features: (1) AMIS supports text-only books now, in addition to full-text, full-audio and audio-TOC books; and (2) there is a new piece of documentation, in DAISY format: the Keyboard Shortcuts book (found in the help menu). To get AMIS 3 beta 4 and start testing, go to: http://daisy-trac.cvsdude.com/amis/wiki/BetaTesting You are receiving this email because of one or more of the following reasons: 1. You contacted us directly because you were interested in testing AMIS 2. You created a bugzilla account at http://daisy-bugz.cvsdude.com 3. You are a translator for an AMIS language pack and we think you would benefit from seeing the latest version of what you are translating. 4. Based on previous contact, we think you would be interested in this version of AMIS If your organization plans to suggest AMIS to your users, then it is extremely important that you continue your beta testing participation. We can eliminate a lot of potential problems this way. You will find everything you need on the beta testing guidelines page: http://daisy-trac.cvsdude.com/amis/wiki/BetaTesting This includes instructions on creating a bugzilla account, filing bug reports, getting sample titles, and some important notes. Here are a few specific changes that some of you can relate to: * Japanese users were unable to open books in folders with Japanese names. We now have support for double-byte characters in the file path. * Text does not get clipped at the edge of the window when switching views or applying page styles. * There is an option to use a different audio engine, which is good for playing watermarked audio files. Just go to amisPrefs.xml and set "prefer-ffmpeg" to "yes". * The settings directory moved so that users don't require administrative permissions. This was requested by a school installing AMIS for their students. * Another request was to be able to quickly access the documentation, so now there are links to the HTML versions of the help and keyboard shortcuts documents from the start menu. We appreciate all your help in moving AMIS towards a stable release. Thank you and best regards, The AMIS Team http://amisproject.org http://daisy-trac.cvsdude.com/amis/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ _______________________________________________ Amis-users mailing list Amis-users at lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amis-users From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 04:30:45 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:30:45 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi again, I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's something really good about going to get my own food even if someone is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know what my other choices are. This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're spending our money on the items we actually want and not being accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we actually want to buy. Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to decide when and how I want to be assisted. I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. Cheers Arielle On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: > It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind > customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, > not just cook and wash dishes. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi Hope, >> >> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >> of >> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>> the >>> >>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. >>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off >>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>> It's >>> >>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>> woman >>> >>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>> merely a student? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>> because >>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>> today >>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>> saying >>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>> bring it >>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>> it >>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>> basic >>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>> have >>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>> said >>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>> that >>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>> comments >>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>> of >>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>> dollars >>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>> don't mean to >>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>> in college. >>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>> hands. I >>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>> then, the >>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>> bought my own >>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>> campus and >>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>> trying to >>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>> >>>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>> staff >>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>> good >>>>>>> idea >>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>> your are >>>>>>> finished shopping. >>> >>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>> that >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>> if she >>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>> nursing >>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>> offer to >>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>> a >>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>> to wait >>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>> my >>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>> take >>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>> window >>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>> Courtney >>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>> bring >>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>> them >>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>> tray >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>> you >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> day. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>> my >>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>> than >>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>> has >>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>> needed >>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>> I >>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>> second >>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>> area. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To 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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >>> er%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >>> en%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 12:21:24 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:21:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811140421y371039by5dfff7f8047ed164@mail.gmail.com> YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, 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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 12:26:41 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:26:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to without miimal assistance. This is just hard. Beth On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: > Beth, > > I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one > suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open > because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some > exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is going > with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene as > well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, you'll > feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found > orientation to the lay out. > > Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a > few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the > cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better understanding > of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each passing > time. > > To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various > training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it at > the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip while > firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from your > body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the tray > in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and middle > finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and > using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the > finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side of > your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as my > students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment > using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty plate, > cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more > weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting while > still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the > privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing for > the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe you > assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm room > or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. > > I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your > cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse > these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and > ease in no time. Hope this helps. > > Warmest Regards, > Yolanda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >> I mean? >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>> >>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>> >>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>> >>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>> >>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>> you move through the store. >>> >>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>> out. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>> Carrie, >>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which I >>>> only >>>> got every three to four months. >>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in my >>>> hands. >>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >>>> colorado >>>> center. >>>> I knew how to do it. >>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>> Lol! >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa R. Green >>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of >>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>> >>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>>> to >>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>> cane. >>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>> long >>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our training >>>> centers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>> >>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>> least >>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> Albert, >>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>>> enjoy >>>>> >>>>> it. >>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you can >>>>> go >>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>> >>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>> >>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>> blindness >>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>> that >>>> is >>>>> what you want to do. >>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>>> play >>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>> walk >>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>> court. >>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>>> then. >>>>> >>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>> anyone >>>>> >>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>>> is >>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>> busy >>>> and >>>>> >>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to go >>>>>> to >>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball or >>>> ice >>>>> >>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>> if >>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>> Unless >>>> at >>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>> weird >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>> going >>>> to >>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I encountered >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>> recent >>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, including >>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does anyone >>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't really >>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social integration >>>> and >>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>> this. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>> school >>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>> often >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>> it >>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>> don't >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>> 11/5/2008 >>>> 5:36 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>> 11/12/2008 >>>> 7:01 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 14:03:15 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:03:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <000401c944e5$4c5a0fa0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> <000401c944e5$4c5a0fa0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Yes, I have e-mailed her and I will be talking to her tonight. Buddy, that was very creative, and extremely helpful. that did paint a clear picture of what I'm going through. Antonio, yeah, my dad works three jobs to support us and my mum just stopped working around two months ago so my family works really hard. My grandparents also give us a certain amount of money each year to help pay for things. Without all this, there is no way we could go to the school I'm in. There are many families, even some that are extremely poor, that do everything they can to send their kids to a private school. So, because of the cost, my parents just can't pay anymore for other things. I receive mobility training twice a month and I really don't know how I get it. All I know is that I've gotten it all my life. Thank you so much for all your help guys. I'll just talk with people and see what we can do. On 11/12/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Franandiah, > > Carrie Gilmer's e-mail address is > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > Please write to her, and see the best way to communicate. > > Maybe you'll need to make some calls to the parent advocate in your state, > but first write Carrie at > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > Good luck, > > Antonio > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Franandah Damstra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school > > >> Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The >> reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids >> in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much >> money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, >> but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility >> training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a >> public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned >> braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real >> confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. >> I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the >> best time to call. >> >> On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>> Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship >>> programs too. >>> Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. It's >>> scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such >>> an >>> emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. >>> Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, it >>> will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. >>> Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with >>> a >>> visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific >>> methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if >>> there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain >>> those >>> skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will >>> grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish you >>> had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you >>> want >>> things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, >>> then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. >>> HTH, >>> Sarah >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>> >>> Franandah, >>> >>> Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our >>> suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and >>> teachers >>> obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision >>> but >>> its ineffective. >>> If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it >>> may >>> help in them understanding your vision. >>> Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, >>> its >>> expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they >>> not >>> afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are >>> affluent. Something really smells fishy here. >>> Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the >>> lions >>> >>> club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >>>> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >>>> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >>>> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >>>> adaptive technology. >>>> >>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>>>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>>>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>>>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>>>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>>>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>>>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>>>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what you >>>>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> How? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school until >>>>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get Braille >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra time >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would rather >>>>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in socially >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau >>> l >>>>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>> ink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 14 14:07:58 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:07:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Message-ID: <20081114140643.NYYF14201.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> That would be the only reason , wouldn't have something brought to me by an employee. I might have a friend bring it, because I can tell them what I want, especially if I know what's there. On buffet lines, like chinese restaurants, I usually go up with the person. I don't like to because I usually need to leave my guide dog at the table, but I enjoy deciding what's on my plate as well. It's especially important when you never know what's up there and the buffet is quite large. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:21:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining >hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it >better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. >Beth >On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi again, >> I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend >> Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's >> something really good about going to get my own food even if someone >> is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about >> proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. >> It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my >> plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and >> trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave >> it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't >> like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy >> when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion >> when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot >> how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know >> what my other choices are. >> This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers >> to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with >> customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be >> anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're >> spending our money on the items we actually want and not being >> accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never >> eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we >> actually want to buy. >> Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool >> about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers >> and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of >> my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people >> expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people >> around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I >> have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to >> assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations >> and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the >> get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk >> around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else >> and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. >> That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist >> assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to >> decide when and how I want to be assisted. >> I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our >> training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB >> events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday >> basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle >> these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and >> practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. >> Cheers >> Arielle >> On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >>> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >>> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >>> not just cook and wash dishes. >>> Beth >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi Hope, >>>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>>> of >>>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>>> the >>>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. >>>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off >>>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>>> It's >>>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>>> woman >>>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>>> merely a student? >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>>> because >>>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>>> today >>>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>>> saying >>>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>>> bring it >>>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>>> it >>>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>>> basic >>>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>>> have >>>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>>> said >>>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>>> that >>>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>>> comments >>>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>>> of >>>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>>> dollars >>>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>>Beth >>>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>>> don't mean to >>>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>>> in college. >>>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>>> hands. I >>>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>>> then, the >>>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>>> bought my own >>>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>>> campus and >>>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>>> trying to >>>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>>> staff >>>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>>> good >>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>>> your are >>>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>>> that >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>>> if she >>>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>>> nursing >>>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>>> offer to >>>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>>> to wait >>>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>>> area. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 15:08:52 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811101314w637c5c72v22940fcef94716c6@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> <000401c944e5$4c5a0fa0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811140708j1bcaadar136fec407188b8be@mail.gmail.com> Let us all know how it goes. Beth On 11/14/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: > Yes, I have e-mailed her and I will be talking to her tonight. > > Buddy, that was very creative, and extremely helpful. that did paint a > clear picture of what I'm going through. > > Antonio, yeah, my dad works three jobs to support us and my mum just > stopped working around two months ago so my family works really hard. > My grandparents also give us a certain amount of money each year to > help pay for things. Without all this, there is no way we could go to > the school I'm in. There are many families, even some that are > extremely poor, that do everything they can to send their kids to a > private school. So, because of the cost, my parents just can't pay > anymore for other things. > > I receive mobility training twice a month and I really don't know how > I get it. All I know is that I've gotten it all my life. > > Thank you so much for all your help guys. I'll just talk with people > and see what we can do. > > On 11/12/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Franandiah, >> >> Carrie Gilmer's e-mail address is >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> Please write to her, and see the best way to communicate. >> >> Maybe you'll need to make some calls to the parent advocate in your state, >> but first write Carrie at >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> Good luck, >> >> Antonio >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Franandah Damstra" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >> >> >>> Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The >>> reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids >>> in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much >>> money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, >>> but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility >>> training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a >>> public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned >>> braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real >>> confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. >>> I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the >>> best time to call. >>> >>> On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>> Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive scholarship >>>> programs too. >>>> Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. >>>> It's >>>> scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such >>>> an >>>> emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. >>>> Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, >>>> it >>>> will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. >>>> Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone with >>>> a >>>> visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific >>>> methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if >>>> there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain >>>> those >>>> skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you will >>>> grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish >>>> you >>>> had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you >>>> want >>>> things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have given, >>>> then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. >>>> HTH, >>>> Sarah >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>> >>>> Franandah, >>>> >>>> Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our >>>> suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and >>>> teachers >>>> obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision >>>> but >>>> its ineffective. >>>> If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it >>>> may >>>> help in them understanding your vision. >>>> Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, >>>> its >>>> expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they >>>> not >>>> afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are >>>> affluent. Something really smells fishy here. >>>> Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the >>>> lions >>>> >>>> club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >>>>> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >>>>> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >>>>> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >>>>> adaptive technology. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>>>>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>>>>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>>>>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>>>>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>>>>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>>>>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>>>>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>>>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>>>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>>>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>>>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>>>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so on. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> How? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school >>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get >>>>>>>>>>>> Braille >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the most. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra >>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would >>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau >>>> l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> 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unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>> 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nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>> ink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>> ronto.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 15:18:39 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:18:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Unique Opportunity Message-ID: <35864239F29B43D7A279B1ADAAA8E5E9@MonkeyPaw> Hello all, Perhaps some of you may find this opportunity worthwhile. If you were to include a Braille alphabet card and write a brief message in Braille, the message to the intended students would be exceptionally different. I think it a unique way to spread Braille awareness while making someone's day. Anyway, you decide. From: Lynn Davis [mailto:ldavis at orphan.org] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:25 AM To: Lynn Davis Subject: The holidays are coming..... With Thanksgiving just 2 weeks away, you are probably just like me; thinking, "We need to start making hand-made Valentines!" OK, so you are not just like me. Many of you know that the Orphan Foundation of America sends out three care packages a year to the students in our program. These students are orphans and foster youth that have aged out of care and are attending colleges and trade-schools nationally without the support of family. For many, we are their only source of gifts. At each event we ship out over 2,500 care packages. Our next care package will go out the first week in February and we would like to include hand-made Valentines in each care package. The criteria for the cards are fairly simple: 1.) No glitter!!!! While it is very pretty and shiny, unfortunately it gets all over everything in the care package; 2.) No religious messages. We cannot control who will get each card and we have students of all religious backgrounds; 3.) No references to them being orphaned, in foster care or parentless. In addition to the cards, each student will get a hand-knitted (or crocheted) scarf, cookies, candy, personal care items and school supplies. But I have to say, they all really say how much they like the hand-made cards. You can write words of encouragement like; "you can do it", "keep up the good work" or "we know you will succeed". And then sign it, From First Name, City, State, and Organization (if applicable); i.e. From - Lynn, Sterling, VA, Girl Scout Troop 1234. Thanks to the support of many people, OFA is able to put hand-written cards in over 7,500 care packages annually to foster youth in colleges and trade-schools across the country. One of the students who received a care package last year wrote: "I received my Care Package yesterday. Please tell everyone thank you. It has been a very long time since I received Valentine's Cards. I am greatly thankful." - Jonathan S. - New York Last year we received cards from individuals, families and a variety of organizations. The cards ranged from submissions by young children with very cryptic writing to people who I am guessing were professional scrap-bookers! But all were beautiful and more than that they put a smile on a students face. All cards can be mailed or hand delivered to: Orphan Foundation of America ATTN: Lynn Davis 21351 Gentry Drive, Suite 130 Sterling, VA 20166 If you want more information about OFA, please visit our website at www.orphan.org or you can call me! Thanks for helping America's Foster Youth succeed in school! Lynn Davis Manager, Partnership Development Orphan Foundation of America 21351 Gentry Drive, Suite 130 Sterling, VA 20166 (571) 203-0270 office (703) 403-2830 mobile www.orphan.org From jj at bestmidi.com Fri Nov 14 16:27:25 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:27:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com><4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com><000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D5F723A3FA84F869A9CB9D2FACA0256@ginormous> Beth, Please don't worry about how confident you look compared to other students. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, and together we can work to make everyone stronger. Many ideas and viewpoints will be offered on this list and elsewhere, but it's ultimately your decision as to which skills and techniques you wish to try. Try not to get frustrated, and take this situation as a challenge you can overcome, even if it takes a few months. Good luck, I know you can do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list > ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have > trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this > skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to > without miimal assistance. This is just hard. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Beth, >> >> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one >> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >> going >> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene >> as >> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >> you'll >> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found >> orientation to the lay out. >> >> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a >> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the >> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >> understanding >> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >> passing >> time. >> >> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various >> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it >> at >> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >> while >> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >> your >> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >> tray >> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >> middle >> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side >> of >> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as >> my >> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment >> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >> plate, >> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >> while >> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing >> for >> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe >> you >> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >> room >> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >> >> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and >> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> >> >>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>> I mean? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>> >>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>> >>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>> >>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>> >>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>> you move through the store. >>>> >>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>>> out. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>> Carrie, >>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>>> I >>>>> only >>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>>> my >>>>> hands. >>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>> the >>>>> colorado >>>>> center. >>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>> Lol! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of >>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>> >>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>> the >>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>> start >>>>> to >>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>>> cane. >>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>>> long >>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>> training >>>>> centers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>> >>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>> least >>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Albert, >>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>> and >>>>> enjoy >>>>>> >>>>>> it. >>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>> can >>>>>> go >>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>> >>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>> >>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>> that >>>>> is >>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to >>>>>> a >>>>> play >>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>>> walk >>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>>> court. >>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>> is >>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>> happening >>>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>>> anyone >>>>>> >>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>> busy >>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>>> or >>>>> ice >>>>>> >>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>> Unless >>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>> this. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>> often >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>> how. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/5/2008 >>>>> 5:36 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/12/2008 >>>>> 7:01 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 14 17:50:46 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:50:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays Message-ID: <20081114174930.BRUV2107.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> I agree with you, J. J. Beth, I know this can be frustrating, but try not to let it get you down. As far as what you said about your confidence level, everyone on this list has differing skills and levels of confidence. Think of this as a challenge. I'm running a marathon, 26.2 miles, this February. I need lots of practice to train for this. I admit, this training is difficult, especi when I start running 15 to 20 miles a day. It's challenging, but I never let it frustrate me. Just think of acquiring this skillz a challenge and I know you will succeed. We have a saying in our family to overcome challenges. When I first started running, I only ran about 10 steps and then gave up. My father came up to me and asked why I gave up. I said because this running stuff was hard! He told me, well, if it was easy, everyone would do it. Take care, and I know you can do this! Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "J.J. Meddaugh" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:27:25 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >Beth, >Please don't worry about how confident you look compared to other students. >We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, and together we can work to >make everyone stronger. Many ideas and viewpoints will be offered on this >list and elsewhere, but it's ultimately your decision as to which skills and >techniques you wish to try. Try not to get frustrated, and take this >situation as a challenge you can overcome, even if it takes a few months. >Good luck, I know you can do it. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list >> ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have >> trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this >> skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to >> without miimal assistance. This is just hard. >> Beth >> On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>> Beth, >>> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one >>> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >>> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >>> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >>> going >>> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene >>> as >>> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >>> you'll >>> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found >>> orientation to the lay out. >>> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a >>> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the >>> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >>> understanding >>> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >>> passing >>> time. >>> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various >>> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it >>> at >>> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >>> while >>> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >>> your >>> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >>> tray >>> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >>> middle >>> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >>> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >>> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side >>> of >>> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as >>> my >>> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment >>> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >>> plate, >>> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >>> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >>> while >>> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >>> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing >>> for >>> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe >>> you >>> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >>> room >>> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >>> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >>> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >>> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and >>> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >>> Warmest Regards, >>> Yolanda >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>>> I mean? >>>> Beth >>>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>>> you move through the store. >>>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>>>> out. >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Arielle >>>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>>> Carrie, >>>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>>>> I >>>>>> only >>>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>>>> my >>>>>> hands. >>>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>>> the >>>>>> colorado >>>>>> center. >>>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>>> Lol! >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>>> the >>>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>>> start >>>>>> to >>>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>>>> cane. >>>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>>>> long >>>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers. >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Beth >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> Albert, >>>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>>> and >>>>>> enjoy >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to >>>>>>> a >>>>>> play >>>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>>>> court. >>>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>>> happening >>>>>> then. >>>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>>> busy >>>>>> and >>>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>>>> or >>>>>> ice >>>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>>> Unless >>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>>> going >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>>> often >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizo >>>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthl >>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo 1%40hotmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>>> how. >>>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.c om-Blog-cns >>>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthl >>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gi lmer%40gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate5 6%40juno.com >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/5/2008 >>>>>> 5:36 >>>>>> PM >>>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/12/2008 >>>>>> 7:01 >>>>>> PM >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQr om5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia% 40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40best midi.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 19:00:09 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:00:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811140421y371039by5dfff7f8047ed164@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003d01c9468b$39995b80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, When I attended a Webmasters Seminar at the National Center for the Blind last February we didn't use trays either. We were still expected to serve ourselves during meals. We wore clothes containing pockets; great places to store eating utensils, napkins, seasonings, and whatever else will fit in them. I made use of them leaving my hands free to work my dog and carry my plate to the table. I found a table close to the drinks area and got my drink after setting the plate down and laying out the items stored in my pockets. And this all without the need to have someone with me. During that weekend we got a taste of what students at our training centers experience during their time at these facilities. I also enjoyed taking the webmaster training in the computer lab located in the NFB Jernigan Institute that weekend. It was a wonderful experience. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>> table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>> off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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_______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 19:07:34 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:07:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com><4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com><000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c9468c$40b02060$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, It's only hard if you make it so. As with serving yourself finding a competent blind individual with good travel skills who can help you learn the route will enable you to find the student union on your own. Perhaps you should consider taking some time off from school to attend an NFB training center to receive intense training in these areas. It will be the best life investment you ever made for yourself. Peter Donahue this ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to without miimal assistance. This is just hard. Beth On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: > Beth, > > I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one > suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open > because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some > exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is going > with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene > as > well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, > you'll > feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found > orientation to the lay out. > > Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a > few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the > cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better > understanding > of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each > passing > time. > > To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various > training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it > at > the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip > while > firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from your > body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the tray > in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and middle > finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and > using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the > finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side > of > your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as > my > students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment > using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty > plate, > cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more > weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting > while > still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the > privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing > for > the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe > you > assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm > room > or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. > > I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your > cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse > these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and > ease in no time. Hope this helps. > > Warmest Regards, > Yolanda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >> I mean? >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>> >>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>> >>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>> >>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>> >>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>> you move through the store. >>> >>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>> out. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>> Carrie, >>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>> I >>>> only >>>> got every three to four months. >>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>> my >>>> hands. >>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to the >>>> colorado >>>> center. >>>> I knew how to do it. >>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>> Lol! >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Melissa R. Green >>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of >>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>> >>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold the >>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things start >>>> to >>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>> cane. >>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>> long >>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>> training >>>> centers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>> >>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>> least >>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> Albert, >>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not and >>>> enjoy >>>>> >>>>> it. >>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>> can >>>>> go >>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>> >>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>> >>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>> blindness >>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>> that >>>> is >>>>> what you want to do. >>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to a >>>> play >>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>> walk >>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>> court. >>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it is >>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is happening >>>> then. >>>>> >>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>> anyone >>>>> >>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality that >>>>> is >>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>> to >>>> go >>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>> busy >>>> and >>>>> >>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>> go >>>>>> to >>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>> or >>>> ice >>>>> >>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>> if >>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>> Unless >>>> at >>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>> weird >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>> going >>>> to >>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>> recent >>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like me >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people >>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a nerd >>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know that >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much about, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>> integration >>>> and >>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I am >>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning a >>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>> this. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>> school >>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>> often >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>> it >>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>> don't >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>> how. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>> 11/5/2008 >>>> 5:36 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>> 11/12/2008 >>>> 7:01 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 19:12:57 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:12:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114140643.NYYF14201.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <008301c9468d$019561f0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Hope and listers, For God sakes take the dog with you when going through the buffet line!I do it all the time without any problems. Leaving your dog unattended at a table is asking for trouble. Read my previous message on this subject concerning my trip to the National Center last February. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food That would be the only reason , wouldn't have something brought to me by an employee. I might have a friend bring it, because I can tell them what I want, especially if I know what's there. On buffet lines, like chinese restaurants, I usually go up with the person. I don't like to because I usually need to leave my guide dog at the table, but I enjoy deciding what's on my plate as well. It's especially important when you never know what's up there and the buffet is quite large. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:21:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining >hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it >better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. >Beth >On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi again, >> I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend >> Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's >> something really good about going to get my own food even if someone >> is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about >> proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. >> It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my >> plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and >> trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave >> it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't >> like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy >> when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion >> when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot >> how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know >> what my other choices are. >> This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers >> to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with >> customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be >> anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're >> spending our money on the items we actually want and not being >> accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never >> eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we >> actually want to buy. >> Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool >> about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers >> and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of >> my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people >> expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people >> around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I >> have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to >> assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations >> and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the >> get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk >> around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else >> and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. >> That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist >> assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to >> decide when and how I want to be assisted. >> I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our >> training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB >> events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday >> basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle >> these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and >> practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. >> Cheers >> Arielle >> On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >>> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >>> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >>> not just cook and wash dishes. >>> Beth >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi Hope, >>>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>>> of >>>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>>> the >>>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a table. >>>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming off >>>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>>> It's >>>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>>> woman >>>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>>> merely a student? >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>>> because >>>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>>> today >>>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>>> saying >>>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>>> bring it >>>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>>> it >>>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>>> basic >>>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>>> have >>>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>>> said >>>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>>> that >>>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>>> comments >>>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>>> of >>>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>>> dollars >>>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>>Beth >>>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>>> don't mean to >>>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>>> in college. >>>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>>> hands. I >>>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>>> then, the >>>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>>> bought my own >>>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>>> campus and >>>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>>> trying to >>>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>>> staff >>>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>>> good >>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>>> your are >>>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>>> that >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>>> if she >>>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>>> nursing >>>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>>> offer to >>>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>>> to wait >>>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me >>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the >>>>>>>>>>>>> staff >>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wide >>>>> area. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 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message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From missheather at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 20:05:36 2008 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:05:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0811140421y371039by5dfff7f8047ed164@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth, I suggest that you try being a bit more creative in solving your problem. I suggested that you buy an inexpensive tray and bring it with you to the dining-hall. You responded that this was not a good option, because you would have to carry it around with you all day. I would suggest that you bring it to the dining-hall and ask them if they mind you keeping your tray there in an easily accessed place. I'm sure the staff would be happy to assist you in increasing your own independence, confidence and competence. For them to take three minutes, one time, assisting you to figure out a good place to keep your tray, rather than to take ten minutes every day to serve you your food and assist you to find a seat and a drink is by far the best option for the staff. As blind people we need to be creative in finding what works for us, especially when people are either unable or unwilling, or both, to help. Regards, Heather Field It doesn't sound hard at all, if one decides that they'd like to do it. Best regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if > someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do > it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on > my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the > spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I > know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure > we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most > of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted > people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun > to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an > equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of > our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other > NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more > rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around >>> to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They >>> have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs >>> are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in >>> class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >>>> to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I >>>> go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to >>>> each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>> table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room >>>> coming off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, >>>> too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what >>>> the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you >>>> this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really >>>>>> small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with >>>>>>> the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is >>>>>>>> not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come >>>>>>>> before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I >>>>>>>> had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your >>>>>>>> roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a >>>>>>>> ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit >>>>>>>>> bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily >>>>>>>>> designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I >>>>>>>>> have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. >>>>>>>>> Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules >>>>>>>>>> them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their >>>>>>>>>> next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a >>>>>>>>>>> car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, >>>>>>>>>>>> many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the >>>>>>>>>>>> inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own >>>>>>>>>>>> tray with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a >>>>>>>>>>>> huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help >>>>>>>>>>>> me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my >>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations >>>>>>>>>>>> are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the >>>>>>>>>>>> staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say >>>>>>>>>>>> that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short >>>>>>>>>>>> staff. I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager >>>>>>>>>>>> about this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two >>>>>>>>>>>>> issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people >>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent >>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to >>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all >>>>>>>>>>>>> until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana >>>>>>>>>>>>> Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with >>>>>>>>>>>>> sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a >>>>>>>>>>>>> meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is >>>>>>>>>>>>> practicing, too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or >>>>>>>>>>>>> move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One >>>>>>>>>>>>> is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat >>>>>>>>>>>>> and it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across >>>>>>>>>>>>> a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper >>>>>>>>>>>>> way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the >>>>>>>>>>>>> toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) >>>>>>>>>>>>> but the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is >>>>>>>>>>>>> why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty >>>>>>>>>>>>> ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>> virus >>>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From tagrig at verizon.net Fri Nov 14 20:24:03 2008 From: tagrig at verizon.net (tatyana) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:24:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3785C2547D5440098CA8DE88F9C64E63@AKSYUKHOME> Hi Beth, May be I missed some postings in the list but this is very useful topic to discuss. I just thought if you have not trays in the cafeteria, what if you will get your own tray so you can take it with you in the cafeteria? We can even do a little more tricks and get something else instead trays, like a some box or even some small bucket with a handle, so you can carry your food init? As for me, I'm not so confident as you in eating places. You are doing great dealing with that. I guess according the law, all public places must be accessible. So management of the cafeteria have to face your situation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list > ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have > trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this > skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to > without miimal assistance. This is just hard. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Beth, >> >> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one >> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >> going >> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene >> as >> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >> you'll >> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found >> orientation to the lay out. >> >> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a >> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the >> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >> understanding >> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >> passing >> time. >> >> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various >> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it >> at >> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >> while >> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >> your >> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >> tray >> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >> middle >> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side >> of >> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as >> my >> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment >> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >> plate, >> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >> while >> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing >> for >> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe >> you >> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >> room >> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >> >> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and >> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> >> >>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>> I mean? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>> >>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>> >>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>> >>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>> >>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>> you move through the store. >>>> >>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>>> out. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>> Carrie, >>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>>> I >>>>> only >>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>>> my >>>>> hands. >>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>> the >>>>> colorado >>>>> center. >>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>> Lol! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of >>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>> >>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>> the >>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>> start >>>>> to >>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>>> cane. >>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>>> long >>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>> training >>>>> centers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>> >>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>> least >>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Albert, >>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>> and >>>>> enjoy >>>>>> >>>>>> it. >>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>> can >>>>>> go >>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>> >>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>> >>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>> that >>>>> is >>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to >>>>>> a >>>>> play >>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>>> walk >>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>>> court. >>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>> is >>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>> happening >>>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>>> anyone >>>>>> >>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>> busy >>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>>> or >>>>> ice >>>>>> >>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>> Unless >>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>> this. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>> often >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>> how. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/5/2008 >>>>> 5:36 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/12/2008 >>>>> 7:01 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tagrig%40verizon.net > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Fri Nov 14 20:50:05 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu ( Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:50:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <003d01c9468b$39995b80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Hello Peter and listers. To respond to your message regarding taking the dog through the buffet line I have done it several times-- however have received complaints about the dog being so close to the food from other customers. Perhaps I should be more assertive as far as the dog's right to be there. She's well-groomed every day and I try to keep the shedding down to a minimum. As far as your comment regarding taking a year off from school and attending an NFB center, I don't need to take any time off because I'm a senior and will graduate in May, but I have hesitations about the inability to use the dog during classtime at the center. The only time she would work is to/from the center, on my breaks, and the weekends. For a short period of time that wouldn't be a problem, but I think the center programs last for at least 9 months, don't they? I'm concerned this lack of work would interfere with her training. I'd like to have your opinion on this either on or off list. Thank you. Hope and Beignet -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello Beth and listers, When I attended a Webmasters Seminar at the National Center for the Blind last February we didn't use trays either. We were still expected to serve ourselves during meals. We wore clothes containing pockets; great places to store eating utensils, napkins, seasonings, and whatever else will fit in them. I made use of them leaving my hands free to work my dog and carry my plate to the table. I found a table close to the drinks area and got my drink after setting the plate down and laying out the items stored in my pockets. And this all without the need to have someone with me. During that weekend we got a taste of what students at our training centers experience during their time at these facilities. I also enjoyed taking the webmaster training in the computer lab located in the NFB Jernigan Institute that weekend. It was a wonderful experience. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>> table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>> off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >>>> er%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> 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_______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. edu __________ NOD32 3614 (20081114) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Nov 14 21:23:18 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:23:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: VRStream Raffle Message-ID: >I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave >The NFB of South Carolina Computer Science and Technology Committee >will be giving away a Victor Reader Stream at our Statewide Seminar in January. > >Tickets are $3.00 each or two tickets for $5. One non-winning >ticket per customer can be redeemed for a $30.00 discount on the >purchase of a Victor Reader Stream or Trekker Breeze from >Humanware. Tickets can be purchased between now and January 10, 2009. > >Checks should be made to NFB of SC Computer Science & Technology >Committee (CSTC) and can be mailed to > >Steve Cook >2446 Harrison Rd >Columbia, SC 29204 > >If you have any questions contact Steve Cook at cookcafe at sc.rr.com >and put VR Stream Raffle in the subject field. > >Steve Cook >E-Mail: cookcafe at sc.rr.com > >IMPORTANT NOTICE This transmission may contain information that is >privileged, confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from >disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended >recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including >any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this >transmission and any attachments are believed to be free of any >virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into >which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the >recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is >accepted by SCCB., for any loss or damage arising in any way from >its use. If you received this transmission in error, please >immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its >entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. David Andrews and white cane Harry. From JFreeh at nfb.org Fri Nov 14 21:36:35 2008 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:36:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Partners with Santa to Promote Braille Literacy Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Public Relations Specialist National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Partners with Santa to Promote Braille Literacy North Pole (November 14, 2008): Once again, Santa has enlisted the help of the elves at the National Federation of the Blind (NFB) Jernigan Institute to get Braille letters out to hundreds of blind boys and girls this Christmas season. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "Santa approached the National Federation of the Blind a couple of years ago and asked us to be his helpers. I'm quite fond of the fellow and was delighted that we could assist him in his work. Braille literacy is the key to success and opportunity for the blind; besides, reading Braille is lots of fun. It's really exciting for kids to get their very own Braille letter at Christmas time from jolly old St. Nicholas himself." Between November 16 and December 16, parents can go online at www.nfb.org and fill out a Santa Braille Letter request form. The form can also be printed and faxed to (410) 659-6893. Beginning December 1, the Braille letters from Santa will start going out to boys and girls around the country. The Braille letter will also be accompanied by a print copy (for mom and dad to read), and parents can choose the contracted or uncontracted form of Braille for the letter. Requests for letters must include the writer's name, the child's name, birthday, gender, mailing address, and a telephone number or e-mail address in case Santa's helpers at the National Federation of the Blind have questions. The deadline for letter requests is December 16, to ensure that a return letter in Braille is received before Christmas. For more information about this and other programs of the National Federation of the Blind, please visit our Web site at www.nfb.org. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. Please visit our Web site: www.nfb.org. From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 21:55:14 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:55:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [BlindAttic] Del Axim MSP and Geo Bundle Message-ID: Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earle Harrison" To: ; Cc: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: [BlindAttic] Del Axim MSP and Geo Bundle > Hi all, > > We here at Handy Tech North America have a heck of a bargain for somebody. > > I took in trade a Del Axim 51V purchased at one of the summer shows a > couple > years back. Since then, it has sat in the box and literally has never > been > used. > > This unit comes with a think Outside Stowaway keyboard, 2 gb SD card, > leather case, Microsoft Voice command and a full license of Mobile Speak > Pocket using Fonix Dectalk. I am going to install Mobile Geo GPS software > on it and blow the entire package out the door at $999.00. Mobile Geo > alone > cost $895, so I think that few would disagree that this is a very good > price. > > Dell discontinued the Axim 51V almost two years ago so of course there is > no > warranty to speak of; however, as I mentioned this unit is in like new > condition and the included software alone has a retail value of $1190.00. > To my knowledge, the Dell Axim 51V was the only PDA with a processor speed > of 600 MHZ. > > We only have the one unit and it will be sold on the first come, first > served basis. For another $50, we'll include a Holux M1000 GPS receiver, > install it along with all the software and even install the map for the > state of your choice. All you have to do is learn how to use it. > > We accept PayPal, credit card over the phone, money orders and checks. > Interested parties can either contact me off list at sales at handytech.us > > Or by calling: > > 651-636-5184 option 1 > > Best Regards, > > Earle Harrison > Handy Tech North America > Ph: 651-636-5184 > Fx: 866-347-8249 > Em: earle at handytech.us > Wb: www.handytech.us > > > > > Join the Treasure Scroll mailing list and discover how EShopping with > Blind Treasures is fun, safe, and affordable! We offer a wide selection of > interesting & unique treasures which change on a daily basis, but are > usually in low quantities, so you must act quickly. Featuring monthly > contests for free prizes too! > We specialize in creating customer satisfaction and our number one goal is > pleasing you! Simply call or email the King with your order, concern, or > suggestion and he will take care of it for you! So we invite you to > enter > the castle and give us a try... and begin receiving the royal treatment > you deserve today!! http://www.blindtreasures.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 14 23:58:15 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:58:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: Message-ID: <000501c946b4$ddbda260$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Hope and listers, To paraphrase Tom T. Hall, "You need to talk to them about the law."If the cafeteria is located in a facility to which the general public is invited your dog may accompany you anywhere in such facilities including going through the serving line. I think you need to educate those folks on this point. For that reason I'm copying Marion Gwizdala, President of the National Association of Guide Dog Users, "NAGDU" to alert him to this matter. He can help you with dealing with these folks and if necessary taking further action. Assuming your dog is well-behaved you should be able to resolve things easily. Do keep in mind of what your dog is doing in all situations to ensure she behaves properly. I would also obtain a copy of Maine's White Cane law to show to school personnel so they understand what they could be against should those who give you trouble about taking your dog through the serving line persist in their behavior. Let me contact you off list to discuss this further. I need to get supper ready. We're hungry!! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: " Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello Peter and listers. To respond to your message regarding taking the dog through the buffet line I have done it several times-- however have received complaints about the dog being so close to the food from other customers. Perhaps I should be more assertive as far as the dog's right to be there. She's well-groomed every day and I try to keep the shedding down to a minimum. As far as your comment regarding taking a year off from school and attending an NFB center, I don't need to take any time off because I'm a senior and will graduate in May, but I have hesitations about the inability to use the dog during classtime at the center. The only time she would work is to/from the center, on my breaks, and the weekends. For a short period of time that wouldn't be a problem, but I think the center programs last for at least 9 months, don't they? I'm concerned this lack of work would interfere with her training. I'd like to have your opinion on this either on or off list. Thank you. Hope and Beignet -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Hello Beth and listers, When I attended a Webmasters Seminar at the National Center for the Blind last February we didn't use trays either. We were still expected to serve ourselves during meals. We wore clothes containing pockets; great places to store eating utensils, napkins, seasonings, and whatever else will fit in them. I made use of them leaving my hands free to work my dog and carry my plate to the table. I found a table close to the drinks area and got my drink after setting the plate down and laying out the items stored in my pockets. And this all without the need to have someone with me. During that weekend we got a taste of what students at our training centers experience during their time at these facilities. I also enjoyed taking the webmaster training in the computer lab located in the NFB Jernigan Institute that weekend. It was a wonderful experience. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. Beth On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>> table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>> off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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_______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. edu __________ NOD32 3614 (20081114) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 00:00:16 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:00:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> Peter, Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is knowing when to ask for assistance. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Good evening everyone, > > Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your > food. > Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room > layouts > including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a > cafeteria > line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best > medicine for this condition. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go > to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very > big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in > walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with > ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. > One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs > everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice > place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the > woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told > you this, or merely a student? > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is > because >>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me > today >>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager > saying >>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just > bring it >>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if > it >>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my > basic >>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd > have >>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who > said >>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in > that >>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's > comments >>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division > of >>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer > dollars >>going into MY meal plan. >>Beth > >>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I > don't mean to >>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food > in college. >>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small > hands. I >>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but > then, the >>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've > bought my own >>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to > campus and >>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than > trying to >>> deal with the cafeteria scene. > >>> Serena > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the > staff >>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>> Beth > >>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, > >>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a > good >>>>> idea >>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before > your are >>>>> finished shopping. > >>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had > that >>>>> problem >>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate > if she >>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice > nursing >>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride > offer to >>>>> pay gas or something for it. > >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate > a >>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have > to wait >>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, > my >>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>> Beth > >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to > take >>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next > window >>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>> Courtney > >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to > bring >>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. > >>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of > them >>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive > tray >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with > you >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your > ability >>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to > impact >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> day. > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge > problem >>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get > my >>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right > hand >>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre > than >>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to > maneuver >>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff > has >>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I > needed >>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people > aren't >>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. > I >>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have > to >>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with > holding >>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The > first >>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the > second >>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the > serving >>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. > >>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an > option, >>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead > of >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the > food/setting up >>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the > buffet >>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself > independently >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since > it's >>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. > >>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to > overcome >>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I > was a >>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics > of >>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved > at >>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center > where >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal > for >>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils > correctly >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, > and >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > >>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to > feel >>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the > weight is >>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that > I'm >>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and > feel >>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is > spreading. >>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll > be >>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide > area. > >>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to > serve >>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest > time with >>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my > problem >>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was > holding >>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I > had to >>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the > bowl >>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people > have >>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I > bring it >>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel > (like >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant > hand >>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the > handle >>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. > >>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>> Arielle > > >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will > fit. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece > of >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do > you >>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because > I >>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree > it is >>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I > think >>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on > buffet >>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a > survor >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>> discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>>> for you? > >>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate > at >>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew > where >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so > diferent >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. > >>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. > >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu > e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 > %40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath > er%40comcast.net > > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt > en%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus >>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ > >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 00:08:26 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:08:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com><4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com><000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009c01c946b6$48df0f60$0201a8c0@Serene> You're not he only one, Beth. I can't, either! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list > ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have > trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this > skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to > without miimal assistance. This is just hard. > Beth > > On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Beth, >> >> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one >> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >> going >> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene >> as >> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >> you'll >> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found >> orientation to the lay out. >> >> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a >> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the >> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >> understanding >> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >> passing >> time. >> >> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various >> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it >> at >> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >> while >> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >> your >> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >> tray >> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >> middle >> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side >> of >> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as >> my >> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment >> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >> plate, >> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >> while >> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing >> for >> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe >> you >> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >> room >> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >> >> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and >> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> >> >>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>> I mean? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>> >>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>> >>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>> >>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>> >>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>> you move through the store. >>>> >>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>>> out. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>> Carrie, >>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>>> I >>>>> only >>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>>> my >>>>> hands. >>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>> the >>>>> colorado >>>>> center. >>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>> Lol! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of >>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>> >>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>> the >>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>> start >>>>> to >>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>>> cane. >>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>>> long >>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>> training >>>>> centers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>> >>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>> least >>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> Albert, >>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>> and >>>>> enjoy >>>>>> >>>>>> it. >>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>> can >>>>>> go >>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>> >>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>> >>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>> that >>>>> is >>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to >>>>>> a >>>>> play >>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>>> walk >>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>>> court. >>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>> is >>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>> happening >>>>> then. >>>>>> >>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>>> anyone >>>>>> >>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>> busy >>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>>> or >>>>> ice >>>>>> >>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>> Unless >>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>> this. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>> often >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>> how. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/5/2008 >>>>> 5:36 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/12/2008 >>>>> 7:01 >>>>> PM >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 00:03:25 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:03:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008401c946b5$95bb3a30$0201a8c0@Serene> Let me clarify that my friends always told me what there was in the station I wanted food from, namely the entree station. Of course, I wouldn't let someone simply bring me food without telling me what's there first! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Hi again, > > I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend > Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's > something really good about going to get my own food even if someone > is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about > proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. > It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my > plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and > trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave > it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't > like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy > when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion > when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot > how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know > what my other choices are. > > This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers > to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with > customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be > anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're > spending our money on the items we actually want and not being > accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never > eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we > actually want to buy. > > Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool > about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers > and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of > my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people > expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people > around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I > have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to > assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations > and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the > get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk > around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else > and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. > That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist > assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to > decide when and how I want to be assisted. > > I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our > training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB > events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday > basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle > these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and > practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. > > Cheers > Arielle > > > On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >> not just cook and wash dishes. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi Hope, >>> >>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>> of >>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>> the >>>> >>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>> table. >>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>> off >>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>> It's >>>> >>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>> woman >>>> >>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>> merely a student? >>>> >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Beth >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>> because >>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>> today >>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>> saying >>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>> bring it >>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>> it >>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>> basic >>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>> have >>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>> said >>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>> that >>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>> comments >>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>> of >>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>> dollars >>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>Beth >>>> >>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>> don't mean to >>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>> in college. >>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>> hands. I >>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>> then, the >>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>> bought my own >>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>> campus and >>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>> trying to >>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>> staff >>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>> good >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>> your are >>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>> >>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>> that >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>> if she >>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>> nursing >>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>> offer to >>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>> a >>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>> to wait >>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>> my >>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>> take >>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>> window >>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>> area. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sat Nov 15 00:54:55 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:54:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Message-ID: <20081115005338.NMTB2107.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi Peter. This was at a restaurant, not at the school. Have no letteroblems at the school. I'm glad you'll contact me off-list, because I need to get your opinion, again as a guide dog handler, on another mattou. I'll also try to contact Marion as well to see if he can help with this other issue. It's not student related, so I'll not mention it here. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:58:15 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >Hello Hope and listers, >To paraphrase Tom T. Hall, "You need to talk to them about the law."If the >cafeteria is located in a facility to which the general public is invited >your dog may accompany you anywhere in such facilities including going >through the serving line. I think you need to educate those folks on this >point. For that reason I'm copying Marion Gwizdala, President of the >National Association of Guide Dog Users, "NAGDU" to alert him to this >matter. He can help you with dealing with these folks and if necessary >taking further action. > Assuming your dog is well-behaved you should be able to resolve things >easily. Do keep in mind of what your dog is doing in all situations to >ensure she behaves properly. > I would also obtain a copy of Maine's White Cane law to show to school >personnel so they understand what they could be against should those who >give you trouble about taking your dog through the serving line persist in >their behavior. Let me contact you off list to discuss this further. I need >to get supper ready. We're hungry!! >Peter Donahue >----- Original Message ----- >From: " Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:50 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >Hello Peter and listers. To respond to your message regarding taking the dog >through the buffet line I have done it several times-- however have received >complaints about the dog being so close to the food from other customers. >Perhaps I should be more assertive as far as the dog's right to be there. >She's well-groomed every day and I try to keep the shedding down to a >minimum. >As far as your comment regarding taking a year off from school and attending >an NFB center, I don't need to take any time off because I'm a senior and >will graduate in May, but I have hesitations about the inability to use the >dog during classtime at the center. The only time she would work is to/from >the center, on my breaks, and the weekends. For a short period of time that >wouldn't be a problem, but I think the center programs last for at least 9 >months, don't they? I'm concerned this lack of work would interfere with >her training. I'd like to have your opinion on this either on or off list. >Thank you. >Hope and Beignet >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >Behalf Of Peter Donahue >Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:00 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >Hello Beth and listers, > When I attended a Webmasters Seminar at the National Center for the >Blind last February we didn't use trays either. We were still expected to >serve ourselves during meals. We wore clothes containing pockets; great >places to store eating utensils, napkins, seasonings, and whatever else will >fit in them. I made use of them leaving my hands free to work my dog and >carry my plate to the table. I found a table close to the drinks area and >got my drink after setting the plate down and laying out the items stored in >my pockets. And this all without the need to have someone with me. During >that weekend we got a taste of what students at our training centers >experience during their time at these facilities. I also enjoyed taking the >webmaster training in the computer lab located in the NFB Jernigan Institute >that weekend. It was a wonderful experience. >Peter Donahue >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the dining >hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I like it >better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. >Beth >On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi again, >> I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend >> Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's >> something really good about going to get my own food even if someone >> is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about >> proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. >> It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my >> plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and >> trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave >> it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't >> like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy >> when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion >> when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot >> how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know >> what my other choices are. >> This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers >> to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with >> customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be >> anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're >> spending our money on the items we actually want and not being >> accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never >> eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we >> actually want to buy. >> Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool >> about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers >> and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of >> my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people >> expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people >> around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I >> have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to >> assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations >> and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the >> get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk >> around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else >> and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. >> That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist >> assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to >> decide when and how I want to be assisted. >> I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our >> training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB >> events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday >> basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle >> these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and >> practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. >> Cheers >> Arielle >> On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >>> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >>> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >>> not just cook and wash dishes. >>> Beth >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi Hope, >>>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are some >>>> of >>>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>>> the >>>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>>> table. >>>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>>> off >>>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>>> It's >>>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>>> woman >>>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, or >>>>> merely a student? >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>>> because >>>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>>> today >>>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>>> saying >>>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>>> bring it >>>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>>> it >>>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>>> basic >>>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>>> have >>>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>>> said >>>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>>> that >>>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>>> comments >>>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>>> of >>>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>>> dollars >>>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>>Beth >>>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>>> don't mean to >>>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>>> in college. >>>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>>> hands. I >>>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>>> then, the >>>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>>> bought my own >>>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>>> campus and >>>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>>> trying to >>>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>>> staff >>>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>>> good >>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>>> your are >>>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>>> that >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>>> if she >>>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>>> nursing >>>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>>> offer to >>>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>>> to wait >>>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>>>> area. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 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message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >ail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 %40gmail.co >m >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >ail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1 %40sbcgloba >l.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine. >edu >__________ NOD32 3614 (20081114) Information __________ >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1 %40sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From mpeskoe at insightbb.com Sat Nov 15 01:15:06 2008 From: mpeskoe at insightbb.com (Melanie Peskoe) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:15:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any MBA students out there? Message-ID: <6u4g6p$5o8j49@asav01.insightbb.com> Hello everyone, I'm wondering if there are any MBA students on this list? I have recently decided to apply to an MBA program and would like to find other blind students who have been through the GMAT process. I'd also like to learn more about genera MBA course content and alternative techniques that work well with this type of program. Thanks in advance, Melanie Peskoe From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 15 02:24:58 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:24:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Serena and listers, Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable you to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go hand-in-hand. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Peter, Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is knowing when to ask for assistance. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Good evening everyone, > > Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your > food. > Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room > layouts > including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a > cafeteria > line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best > medicine for this condition. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go > to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very > big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in > walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with > ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. > One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs > everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice > place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the > woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told > you this, or merely a student? > > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Beth >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is > because >>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me > today >>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager > saying >>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just > bring it >>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if > it >>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my > basic >>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd > have >>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who > said >>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in > that >>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's > comments >>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division > of >>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer > dollars >>going into MY meal plan. >>Beth > >>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I > don't mean to >>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food > in college. >>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small > hands. I >>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but > then, the >>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've > bought my own >>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to > campus and >>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than > trying to >>> deal with the cafeteria scene. > >>> Serena > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the > staff >>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>> Beth > >>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, > >>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a > good >>>>> idea >>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before > your are >>>>> finished shopping. > >>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had > that >>>>> problem >>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate > if she >>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice > nursing >>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride > offer to >>>>> pay gas or something for it. > >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate > a >>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have > to wait >>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, > my >>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>> Beth > >>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to > take >>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next > window >>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>> Courtney > >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to > bring >>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. > >>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of > them >>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive > tray >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with > you >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your > ability >>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to > impact >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> day. > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge > problem >>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get > my >>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right > hand >>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre > than >>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to > maneuver >>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff > has >>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I > needed >>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people > aren't >>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. > I >>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have > to >>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with > holding >>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The > first >>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the > second >>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the > serving >>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. > >>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an > option, >>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead > of >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the > food/setting up >>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the > buffet >>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself > independently >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since > it's >>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. > >>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to > overcome >>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I > was a >>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics > of >>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved > at >>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center > where >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal > for >>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils > correctly >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, > and >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > >>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to > feel >>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the > weight is >>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that > I'm >>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and > feel >>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is > spreading. >>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll > be >>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide > area. > >>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to > serve >>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest > time with >>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my > problem >>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was > holding >>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I > had to >>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the > bowl >>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people > have >>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I > bring it >>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel > (like >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant > hand >>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the > handle >>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. > >>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>> Arielle > > >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will > fit. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece > of >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do > you >>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because > I >>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree > it is >>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I > think >>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on > buffet >>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a > survor >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>> discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>>> for you? > >>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate > at >>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew > where >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve > ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so > diferent >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of > the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> things. > >>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. > >>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu > e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 > %40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath > er%40comcast.net > > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt > en%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > 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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizon.net > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 02:39:34 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:39:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <20081115005338.NMTB2107.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> References: <20081115005338.NMTB2107.hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811141839i376691ai761752f4b59b5f56@mail.gmail.com> I agree with Serena on what's important in college. Beth On 11/14/08, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi Peter. This was at a restaurant, not at the school. Have no > letteroblems at the school. I'm glad you'll contact me > off-list, because I need to get your opinion, again as a guide > dog handler, on another mattou. I'll also try to contact Marion > as well to see if he can help with this other issue. It's not > student related, so I'll not mention it here. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Peter Donahue" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:58:15 -0600 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>Hello Hope and listers, > >>To paraphrase Tom T. Hall, "You need to talk to them about the > law."If the >>cafeteria is located in a facility to which the general public is > invited >>your dog may accompany you anywhere in such facilities including > going >>through the serving line. I think you need to educate those > folks on this >>point. For that reason I'm copying Marion Gwizdala, President > of the >>National Association of Guide Dog Users, "NAGDU" to alert him to > this >>matter. He can help you with dealing with these folks and if > necessary >>taking further action. > >> Assuming your dog is well-behaved you should be able to > resolve things >>easily. Do keep in mind of what your dog is doing in all > situations to >>ensure she behaves properly. > >> I would also obtain a copy of Maine's White Cane law to show > to school >>personnel so they understand what they could be against should > those who >>give you trouble about taking your dog through the serving line > persist in >>their behavior. Let me contact you off list to discuss this > further. I need >>to get supper ready. We're hungry!! > >>Peter Donahue > > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: " Hope Paulos" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:50 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>Hello Peter and listers. To respond to your message regarding > taking the dog >>through the buffet line I have done it several times-- however > have received >>complaints about the dog being so close to the food from other > customers. >>Perhaps I should be more assertive as far as the dog's right to > be there. >>She's well-groomed every day and I try to keep the shedding down > to a >>minimum. > >>As far as your comment regarding taking a year off from school > and attending >>an NFB center, I don't need to take any time off because I'm a > senior and >>will graduate in May, but I have hesitations about the inability > to use the >>dog during classtime at the center. The only time she would work > is to/from >>the center, on my breaks, and the weekends. For a short period > of time that >>wouldn't be a problem, but I think the center programs last for > at least 9 >>months, don't they? I'm concerned this lack of work would > interfere with >>her training. I'd like to have your opinion on this either on or > off list. > >>Thank you. >>Hope and Beignet >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:00 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>Hello Beth and listers, > >> When I attended a Webmasters Seminar at the National Center > for the >>Blind last February we didn't use trays either. We were still > expected to >>serve ourselves during meals. We wore clothes containing > pockets; great >>places to store eating utensils, napkins, seasonings, and > whatever else will >>fit in them. I made use of them leaving my hands free to work my > dog and >>carry my plate to the table. I found a table close to the drinks > area and >>got my drink after setting the plate down and laying out the > items stored in >>my pockets. And this all without the need to have someone with > me. During >>that weekend we got a taste of what students at our training > centers >>experience during their time at these facilities. I also enjoyed > taking the >>webmaster training in the computer lab located in the NFB > Jernigan Institute >>that weekend. It was a wonderful experience. > >>Peter Donahue > > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Beth" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:21 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>YOu might be right, Peter. However, we don't have trays at the > dining >>hall as I've said, and it's very crowded during peak hours. I > like it >>better when a friend is with me that I can actually trusdt. >>Beth > >>On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi again, > >>> I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's > friend >>> Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me > there's >>> something really good about going to get my own food even if > someone >>> is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just > about >>> proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can > do it. >>> It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up > on my >>> plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice > and >>> trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to > leave >>> it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and > don't >>> like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go > crazy >>> when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate > portion >>> when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on > the spot >>> how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and > I know >>> what my other choices are. > >>> This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training > centers >>> to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with >>> customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be >>> anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be > sure we're >>> spending our money on the items we actually want and not being >>> accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll > never >>> eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we >>> actually want to buy. > >>> Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really > cool >>> about going to a party or other social activity with sighted > peers >>> and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent > most of >>> my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people >>> expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted > people >>> around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently > as I >>> have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have > begun to >>> assert my independence more and more in these kinds of > situations >>> and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from > the >>> get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and > walk >>> around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone > else >>> and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an > equal. >>> That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or > enlist >>> assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to >>> decide when and how I want to be assisted. > >>> I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one > of our >>> training centers, and going to our national conventions and > other NFB >>> events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an > everyday >>> basis. These are the best places to really see how others > handle >>> these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and >>> practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more > rewarding. > >>> Cheers >>> Arielle > > >>> On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >>>> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >>>> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of > them, >>>> not just cook and wash dishes. >>>> Beth > >>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Hi Hope, > >>>>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around > to the >>>>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. > They have >>>>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs > are some >>>>> of >>>>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in > class. > >>>>> Ashley > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go > to the >>>>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I > go to >>>>>> the > >>>>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to > each >>>>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find > a >>>>>> table. >>>>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room > coming >>>>>> off >>>>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, > too. >>>>>> It's > >>>>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what > the >>>>>> woman > >>>>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you > this, or >>>>>> merely a student? > >>>>>> Hope and Beignet > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > >>>>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>>>> because >>>>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>>>> today >>>>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>>>> saying >>>>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>>>> bring it >>>>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>>>> it >>>>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>>>> basic >>>>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>>>> have >>>>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>>>> said >>>>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>>>> that >>>>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>>>> comments >>>>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>>>> of >>>>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>>>> dollars >>>>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>>>Beth > >>>>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>>>> don't mean to >>>>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>>>> in college. >>>>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>>>> hands. I >>>>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>>>> then, the >>>>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>>>> bought my own >>>>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>>>> campus and >>>>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>>>> trying to >>>>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. > >>>>>>>> Serena > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>>>> staff >>>>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>>>> your are >>>>>>>>>> finished shopping. > >>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>>>> if she >>>>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>>>> nursing >>>>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>>>> offer to >>>>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. > >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>>>> to wait >>>>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>>>> Courtney > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> day. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> staff >>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wide >>>>>> area. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>>> co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>>> co%40verizon.net > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list 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>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 > %40gmail.co >>m > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gm >>ail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1 > %40sbcgloba >>l.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine. >>edu > >>__________ NOD32 3614 (20081114) Information __________ > >>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>http://www.eset.com > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1 > %40sbcglobal.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 04:07:16 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:07:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> <001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811142007g33d167c2iefbbf18ede88a695@mail.gmail.com> Peter, I agree with Serena because, in my opinion, you've got to choose your battles. I've chosen not t fight with the cafeteria scene so much, and I know it would help me navigate a workplace later in life, but in reality, academics and socialization are more important because with academics, you have to write papers and do research and stuff. With socialization, you have to work hard at elegance and eating and food manners and even datng etiquette and so on. It will win yourself a good partner in life and a good place in society. That's just my two cents. Beth On 11/14/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Serena and listers, > > Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable you > to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go > hand-in-hand. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Peter, > > Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the > cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're not > great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The > cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in the > sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the > only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about getting > help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with > academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to > negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at > orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something > independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is knowing > when to ask for assistance. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good evening everyone, >> >> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >> food. >> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >> layouts >> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >> cafeteria >> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >> medicine for this condition. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >> you this, or merely a student? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >> because >>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >> today >>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >> saying >>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >> bring it >>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >> it >>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >> basic >>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >> have >>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >> said >>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >> that >>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >> comments >>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >> of >>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >> dollars >>>going into MY meal plan. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >> don't mean to >>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >> in college. >>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >> hands. I >>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >> then, the >>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >> bought my own >>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >> campus and >>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >> trying to >>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >>>> Serena >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >> staff >>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >> good >>>>>> idea >>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >> your are >>>>>> finished shopping. >> >>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >> that >>>>>> problem >>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >> if she >>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >> nursing >>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >> offer to >>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >> a >>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >> to wait >>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >> my >>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >> take >>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >> window >>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>> Courtney >> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >> bring >>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >> them >>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >> tray >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >> you >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >> ability >>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >> impact >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> day. >> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >> problem >>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >> my >>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >> hand >>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >> than >>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >> maneuver >>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >> has >>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >> needed >>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >> aren't >>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >> I >>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >> to >>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >> holding >>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >> first >>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >> second >>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >> serving >>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >> >>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >> option, >>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >> of >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >> independently >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >> it's >>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >> overcome >>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >> was a >>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >> of >>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >> at >>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >> where >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >> for >>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >> and >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >> weight is >>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >> be >>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >> area. >> >>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >> serve >>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >> time with >>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >> problem >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >> holding >>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >> had to >>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >> bowl >>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >> have >>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >> bring it >>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >> (like >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >> hand >>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >> handle >>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call a >>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one piece >> of >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >> you >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >> it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the plate >>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, however, >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >> where >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve my >>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting rice, >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >> er%40comcast.net >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >> en%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus >>>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 05:01:36 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:01:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><4383d01d0811131913n1f5a2209we992dbf68f184ba7@mail.gmail.com> <008401c946b5$95bb3a30$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <0FBC4B0E69BB45619723398D6F144382@Ashley> Hi, I don't think sighted people should simply bring food to us acting as waiters/waitresses when everyone walks around to get food. Serena, I think I use the assistance as you do. In a cafeteria like at college, I will go through the stations with an employee or other sighted assistance and they tell me what is to eat and I let them know what I want. I certainly would not trust someone to simply bring me food because as Arielle said people make mistakes and you then are relying on them to remember what you want. Arielle, I love spaghetti and college meatloaf is okay but Stophers is better. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Let me clarify that my friends always told me what there was in the > station I wanted food from, namely the entree station. Of course, I > wouldn't let someone simply bring me food without telling me what's there > first! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:30 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Hi again, >> >> I would respectfully disagree with the comment that Serena's friend >> Anthony made about having others bring food to you. For me there's >> something really good about going to get my own food even if someone >> is with me to help me find stuff or carry it. It's not just about >> proving yourself or making a point to someone else that I can do it. >> It's that I want to be there to decide what's going to end up on my >> plate. If I let someone else do it for me, no matter how nice and >> trustworthy they may be, people make mistakes. I don't want to leave >> it up to someone else to remember that I like meat loaf and don't >> like pork chops, or that I really love spaghetti and will go crazy >> when that's on the buffet but I'd prefer a more moderate portion >> when it's fried chicken. I also want the freedom to decide on the spot >> how much of each food I want when it's right in front of me and I know >> what my other choices are. >> >> This is the same reason why they teach us at NFB training centers >> to always put the food in the cart ourselves when we shop with >> customer service assistance. It's not that we want to be >> anal-retentive about independence. It's that we want to be sure we're >> spending our money on the items we actually want and not being >> accidentally given the gigantic container of fruit that we'll never >> eat, for instance, instead of the medium-sized portion that we >> actually want to buy. >> >> Beyond the more pragmatic concern, there's something really cool >> about going to a party or other social activity with sighted peers >> and walking around freely and getting your own stuff. I spent most of >> my childhood not knowing what that was like because most people >> expected me to stay in one place and be helped by the sighted people >> around me because that was "easier" in their eyes. Recently as I >> have learned so much from the NFB members around me, I have begun to >> assert my independence more and more in these kinds of situations >> and to put myself out there as an independent blind person from the >> get-go when I meet new people. When I go to a party now and walk >> around freely, people expect me to be pretty much like everyone else >> and it makes it that much easier to socialize with them as an equal. >> That doesn't mean I don't occasionally use sighted guide or enlist >> assistance from others, but I really enjoy having the control to >> decide when and how I want to be assisted. >> >> I can't overemphasize the value of spending some time at one of our >> training centers, and going to our national conventions and other NFB >> events, where blind people do these kinds of things on an everyday >> basis. These are the best places to really see how others handle >> these tough situations, and to get the real-world education and >> practice that will ultimately make them less tough and more rewarding. >> >> Cheers >> Arielle >> >> >> On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >>> It was an employee who said they don't get paid to help a blind >>> customer. ell, they should be paid to help customers, all of them, >>> not just cook and wash dishes. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Hi Hope, >>>> >>>> I do that too. I ask an employee to assist me in walking around to the >>>> stations. My cafeteria is not as big as yours but its nice. They have >>>> table cloths there and napkin holders on the tables. The chairs are >>>> some >>>> of >>>> the most comfortable on campus, much better than what we have in class. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>> >>>> >>>>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go to the >>>>> union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very big, I go to >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> cash register and ask someone to assist me in walking around to each >>>>> station. Then they'll assist me with ringing me up and to find a >>>>> table. >>>>> This cafeteria is really big. One big room with another room coming >>>>> off >>>>> of that and stairs everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. >>>>> It's >>>>> >>>>> a nice place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>>>> woman >>>>> >>>>> said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told you this, >>>>> or >>>>> merely a student? >>>>> >>>>> Hope and Beignet >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Beth >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>>>> because >>>>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>>>> today >>>>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>>>> saying >>>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>>>> bring it >>>>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>>>> it >>>>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>>>> basic >>>>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>>>> have >>>>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>>>> said >>>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>>>> that >>>>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>>>> comments >>>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>>>> of >>>>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>>>> dollars >>>>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>>>> don't mean to >>>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>>>> in college. >>>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>>>> hands. I >>>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>>>> then, the >>>>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>>>> bought my own >>>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>>>> campus and >>>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>>>> trying to >>>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>>>> staff >>>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>>>> good >>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>>>> your are >>>>>>>>> finished shopping. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>>>> that >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>>>> if she >>>>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>>>> nursing >>>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>>>> offer to >>>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>>>> to wait >>>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>>>> bring >>>>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>>>> tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>> day. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me >>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>>>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the >>>>>>>>>>>>> staff >>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>>>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about >>>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>>>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>>>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>>>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>>>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too, >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>>>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>>>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll >>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wide >>>>> area. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>>>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>>>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>>>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (even >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>>>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>>>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>>>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>>>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>>>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>>> co%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3614 (20081114) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 15 05:10:16 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:10:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com><00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> Message-ID: Thank Ashley that's awesome. Many prescriptions must be paid for, so that's something to keep in mind. I think insurance/health plan covers the rest, but the sad thing is I don't know what I have to pay for and what I don't. It's not all free. Maybe I should start researching Medicare ... smile. Thanks again though. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned Sara, I also need to develop those skills. I know little about health care since my parents take me to the doctors when needed. Here are some ideas. Next time you go to the doctor, make your own appointment. Obviously you'll need a ride there. If you need a prescription filled later, first time go to the pharmacy with a parent or someone you trust. They can explain what to do. Sometimes you can phone in prescriptions depending on the drug store. Then later when the prescription is filled you just walk in with identification and I think your insurance card and retrieve the medicine. I know health care is free in Cananda but usually in the US you'll pay a small amount for medicine when you get it and your insurance pays the rest. Personally, I'd rather not visit a doctor's office alone due to the paperwork. I want to fill it out with someone I know; its confidential info. If you were alone, I suppose a nurse or someone would act as your scribe. As to buying over the counter medicine, I think you buy it with customer service help just as you would any other item. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about > learning/bettering them? > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of melissa R. Green > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > I am a little behind. > So saved this message to respond to. > Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. > One time I was really sick. > I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped > at > my > foot. > I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my > appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. > You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use > them. > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of > Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- > > You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, > take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to > seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a > pharmacy. > > Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how > many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a > fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as > well-okay > that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help > in > employment readiness. > > > > > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co > m > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 > 9:36 > AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B > 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 15 05:17:55 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:17:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers Message-ID: Hi all, I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled classes or is a drop-in type deal? Thank you for your help. Sarah From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 05:36:39 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:36:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <1A0DCFB09E5749AAA2129C7577425C0A@Ashley> Serena, Very well said and I totally agree. While serving food and navigating cafeterias is important, in college academics and socializing are more important. We have to advocate to instructors, hire/fire readers, scan matterial and lots of stuff our peers won't deal with. So navigating a cafeteria would add one more stress and chore to it. Part of independence is knowing when to get assistance. Serena, totally identify with you on the small hands and spatial orientation challenges and this makes navigating a loud cafeteria easier said than done. I've been to other cafeterias with family and coworkers when I was at internships and in my opinion college cafeterias are not like the "real world". College dining halls are more loud, full of chaos, and more messy since students can be that way and won't clean up. Oh, and have you come across tables where many chairs are sticking out. People don't have the curtesy to push in chairs! I do not see that at regular cafeterias. I think there are other ways in college to work on carrying trays and getting food. How about at mall food courts. If you go to a buffet with friends this is a better place to practice i think. Its quieter. Serena, if you're still reading here is some ideas for the spatial orientation thing. Of course if you have assistance you can walk sighted guide and not worry about it but if you walk more independently here are some thoughts. I would not recommend at college settings but try other cafeterias such as at a work site; there was an excellent cafeteria I ate at in the county government center. I've not done it on my own yet but almost did and I've talked to other blind people about it, so here it goes. For orientation: Walk around with a sighted friend at a pretty quiet time. To know this, talk to the manager when business slows down. This way you won't be disrupting the flow of traffic and have time to explore. The sighted person can tell you what station serves what. They can explain where the utensils and trays are. Listen for clues such as the cash register. See if you can smell different aromas from different corners. For instance I think the grill has a distinct smell. Ask what the layout is if you can't figure it out. For instance the government cafeteria is a semi circle with the salad/soup bar in the middle. After exploring write down what you remember. If it helps to see relationships, have them help you make a tactile map. When you actually go on your own and buy food, if you can't figure it out, ask questions. Hth, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Peter, > > Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the > cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're > not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. > The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in > the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of > the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about > getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing > with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to > negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at > orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something > independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is > knowing when to ask for assistance. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good evening everyone, >> >> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >> food. >> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >> layouts >> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >> cafeteria >> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >> medicine for this condition. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >> you this, or merely a student? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >> because >>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >> today >>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >> saying >>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >> bring it >>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >> it >>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >> basic >>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >> have >>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >> said >>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >> that >>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >> comments >>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >> of >>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >> dollars >>>going into MY meal plan. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >> don't mean to >>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >> in college. >>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >> hands. I >>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >> then, the >>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >> bought my own >>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >> campus and >>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >> trying to >>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >>>> Serena >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >> staff >>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >> good >>>>>> idea >>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >> your are >>>>>> finished shopping. >> >>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >> that >>>>>> problem >>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >> if she >>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >> nursing >>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >> offer to >>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >> a >>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >> to wait >>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >> my >>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >> take >>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >> window >>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>> Courtney >> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >> bring >>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >> them >>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >> tray >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >> you >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >> ability >>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >> impact >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> day. >> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >> problem >>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >> my >>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >> hand >>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >> than >>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >> maneuver >>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >> has >>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >> needed >>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >> aren't >>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >> I >>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >> to >>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >> holding >>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >> first >>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >> second >>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >> serving >>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >> >>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >> option, >>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >> of >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >> independently >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >> it's >>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >> overcome >>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >> was a >>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >> of >>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >> at >>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >> where >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >> for >>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >> and >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >> weight is >>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >> be >>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >> area. >> >>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >> serve >>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >> time with >>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >> problem >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >> holding >>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >> had to >>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >> bowl >>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >> have >>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >> bring it >>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >> (like >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >> hand >>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >> handle >>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>> piece >> of >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >> you >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >> it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >> where >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >> er%40comcast.net >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >> en%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus >>>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3614 (20081114) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From jeff.young8806 at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 06:18:47 2008 From: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com (Jeff) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:18:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: Message-ID: <008c01c946ea$062ffe70$4201a8c0@Hyrum65> They offer a number of things. I could write quite a bit on them. But, do you're own research. I recently graduated from the Louisiana Center for the Blind. So, naturally i have the most experience with it compared to the other NFB training centers. Here is the link to the LCB website http://www.lcb-ruston.com They have international students quite often, so just because your in Canada doesn't mean you couldn't attend one of them. The closest to you would be in Minnesota. The NFB training centers are truly a great thing for the Blind. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > Hi all, > I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't > anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I > can > try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less > formal > or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled > classes or is a drop-in type deal? > Thank you for your help. > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeff.young8806%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 06:23:57 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:23:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> I'd check out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They should have all the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who graduated from there, and another friend who's there currently. You guys might know this guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of anything bad, but because I want to say he's a good guy and I've been talking to him on the phone lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in the center for quite a while, and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah, as for you, I'm sure there's lots of stuff in Canada for you to check out, but if you have any questions, please ask any of the people who've been to a blind center. They can tell you what's up and what the policy is. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Hi all, > I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't > anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can > try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal > or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled > classes or is a drop-in type deal? > Thank you for your help. > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 06:35:16 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:35:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811142235m1323209et610bdcb1c537feec@mail.gmail.com> No offense intended, but doesn't Canada have universal healthcare? I'm also told that Sweden has universal healthcare. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Thank Ashley that's awesome. Many prescriptions must be paid for, so that's > something to keep in mind. I think insurance/health plan covers the rest, > but the sad thing is I don't know what I have to pay for and what I don't. > It's not all free. Maybe I should start researching Medicare ... smile. > Thanks again though. > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > Sara, I also need to develop those skills. I know little about health care > > since my parents take me to the doctors when needed. Here are some ideas. > Next time you go to the doctor, make your own appointment. Obviously you'll > > need a ride there. If you need a prescription filled later, first time go > to the pharmacy with a parent or someone you trust. They can explain what > to do. Sometimes you can phone in prescriptions depending on the drug > store. Then later when the prescription is filled you just walk in with > identification and I think your insurance card and retrieve the medicine. I > > know health care is free in Cananda but usually in the US you'll pay a small > > amount for medicine when you get it and your insurance pays the rest. > Personally, I'd rather not visit a doctor's office alone due to the > paperwork. I want to fill it out with someone I know; its confidential > info. If you were alone, I suppose a nurse or someone would act as your > scribe. As to buying over the counter medicine, I think you buy it with > customer service help just as you would any other item. > > HTH, > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Jevnikar" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > >> These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about >> learning/bettering them? >> Sarah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of melissa R. Green >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >> >> I am a little behind. >> So saved this message to respond to. >> Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. >> One time I was really sick. >> I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped >> at >> my >> foot. >> I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my >> appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. >> You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use >> them. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Sincerely, >> Melissa R. Green >> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of >> Carrie Gilmer >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >> >> These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- >> >> You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, >> take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to >> seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a >> pharmacy. >> >> Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how >> many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a >> fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as >> well-okay >> that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help >> in >> employment readiness. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co >> m >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 >> 9:36 >> AM >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 >> 7:01 >> PM >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B >> 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 06:51:03 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:51:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> Hi Sara, Nfb centers accept international students, at least I heard LCB does. The centers teach daily living tasks nonvisually. You have classes five days a week. They are generally: braille, computers, cane travel, and home management. There is also woodshop mainly as a confidence builder. The nfb philosophy of seeing blindness as an inconvenience is incorporated in to the teaching. NFB centers employ many blind people as role instructors and they serve as role models. I'm sure you can call one and talk to the director for more info. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > I'd check out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They > should have all the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who > graduated from there, and another friend who's there currently. You > guys might know this guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of > anything bad, but because I want to say he's a good guy and I've been > talking to him on the phone lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in > the center for quite a while, and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah, > as for you, I'm sure there's lots of stuff in Canada for you to check > out, but if you have any questions, please ask any of the people > who've been to a blind center. They can tell you what's up and what > the policy is. > Beth > > On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> Hi all, >> I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't >> anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I >> can >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less >> formal >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled >> classes or is a drop-in type deal? >> Thank you for your help. >> Sarah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 15 06:53:04 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:53:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <1A0DCFB09E5749AAA2129C7577425C0A@Ashley> References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> <1A0DCFB09E5749AAA2129C7577425C0A@Ashley> Message-ID: I think the food thing is all a part of the university experience and is part of socialization too. How can we meet true new friends if we rely totally on others for support in basic things like getting food? Obviously assistance in this area is great and necessary, but note how I said full reliance on others. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Serena, Very well said and I totally agree. While serving food and navigating cafeterias is important, in college academics and socializing are more important. We have to advocate to instructors, hire/fire readers, scan matterial and lots of stuff our peers won't deal with. So navigating a cafeteria would add one more stress and chore to it. Part of independence is knowing when to get assistance. Serena, totally identify with you on the small hands and spatial orientation challenges and this makes navigating a loud cafeteria easier said than done. I've been to other cafeterias with family and coworkers when I was at internships and in my opinion college cafeterias are not like the "real world". College dining halls are more loud, full of chaos, and more messy since students can be that way and won't clean up. Oh, and have you come across tables where many chairs are sticking out. People don't have the curtesy to push in chairs! I do not see that at regular cafeterias. I think there are other ways in college to work on carrying trays and getting food. How about at mall food courts. If you go to a buffet with friends this is a better place to practice i think. Its quieter. Serena, if you're still reading here is some ideas for the spatial orientation thing. Of course if you have assistance you can walk sighted guide and not worry about it but if you walk more independently here are some thoughts. I would not recommend at college settings but try other cafeterias such as at a work site; there was an excellent cafeteria I ate at in the county government center. I've not done it on my own yet but almost did and I've talked to other blind people about it, so here it goes. For orientation: Walk around with a sighted friend at a pretty quiet time. To know this, talk to the manager when business slows down. This way you won't be disrupting the flow of traffic and have time to explore. The sighted person can tell you what station serves what. They can explain where the utensils and trays are. Listen for clues such as the cash register. See if you can smell different aromas from different corners. For instance I think the grill has a distinct smell. Ask what the layout is if you can't figure it out. For instance the government cafeteria is a semi circle with the salad/soup bar in the middle. After exploring write down what you remember. If it helps to see relationships, have them help you make a tactile map. When you actually go on your own and buy food, if you can't figure it out, ask questions. Hth, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > Peter, > > Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the > cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're > not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. > The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in > the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of > the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about > getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing > with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to > negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at > orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something > independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is > knowing when to ask for assistance. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good evening everyone, >> >> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >> food. >> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >> layouts >> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >> cafeteria >> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >> medicine for this condition. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >> you this, or merely a student? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >> because >>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >> today >>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >> saying >>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >> bring it >>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >> it >>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >> basic >>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >> have >>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >> said >>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >> that >>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >> comments >>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >> of >>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >> dollars >>>going into MY meal plan. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >> don't mean to >>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >> in college. >>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >> hands. I >>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >> then, the >>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >> bought my own >>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >> campus and >>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >> trying to >>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >>>> Serena >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >> staff >>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >> good >>>>>> idea >>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >> your are >>>>>> finished shopping. >> >>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >> that >>>>>> problem >>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >> if she >>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >> nursing >>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >> offer to >>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >> a >>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >> to wait >>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >> my >>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >> take >>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >> window >>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>> Courtney >> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >> bring >>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >> them >>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >> tray >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >> you >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >> ability >>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >> impact >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> day. >> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >> problem >>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >> my >>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >> hand >>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >> than >>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >> maneuver >>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >> has >>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >> needed >>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >> aren't >>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >> I >>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >> to >>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >> holding >>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >> first >>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >> second >>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >> serving >>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >> >>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >> option, >>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >> of >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >> independently >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >> it's >>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >> overcome >>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >> was a >>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >> of >>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >> at >>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >> where >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >> for >>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >> and >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >> weight is >>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >> be >>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >> area. >> >>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >> serve >>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >> time with >>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >> problem >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >> holding >>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >> had to >>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >> bowl >>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >> have >>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >> bring it >>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >> (like >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >> hand >>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >> handle >>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>> piece >> of >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >> you >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >> it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >> where >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >> er%40comcast.net >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >> en%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus >>>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3614 (20081114) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 15 06:56:33 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:56:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811142235m1323209et610bdcb1c537feec@mail.gmail.com> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> <4383d01d0811142235m1323209et610bdcb1c537feec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh yeah universal health care, but not everything is free. Some things, like dental care and now eye care, can only be covered by workplaces's benefit plans i.e. through insurance. It's a bit confusing and I don't quite understand it. But it's great knowing that in an emergency situation no one will be stuck in a tight financial situation. It's not a perfect system, but I think it's a real plus. It does mean that wait times are longer and that taxes are higher, but I think it's better that everyone should have an equal chance of access. That's just my thinking. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:35 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned No offense intended, but doesn't Canada have universal healthcare? I'm also told that Sweden has universal healthcare. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Thank Ashley that's awesome. Many prescriptions must be paid for, so that's > something to keep in mind. I think insurance/health plan covers the rest, > but the sad thing is I don't know what I have to pay for and what I don't. > It's not all free. Maybe I should start researching Medicare ... smile. > Thanks again though. > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > Sara, I also need to develop those skills. I know little about health care > > since my parents take me to the doctors when needed. Here are some ideas. > Next time you go to the doctor, make your own appointment. Obviously you'll > > need a ride there. If you need a prescription filled later, first time go > to the pharmacy with a parent or someone you trust. They can explain what > to do. Sometimes you can phone in prescriptions depending on the drug > store. Then later when the prescription is filled you just walk in with > identification and I think your insurance card and retrieve the medicine. I > > know health care is free in Cananda but usually in the US you'll pay a small > > amount for medicine when you get it and your insurance pays the rest. > Personally, I'd rather not visit a doctor's office alone due to the > paperwork. I want to fill it out with someone I know; its confidential > info. If you were alone, I suppose a nurse or someone would act as your > scribe. As to buying over the counter medicine, I think you buy it with > customer service help just as you would any other item. > > HTH, > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Jevnikar" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > >> These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about >> learning/bettering them? >> Sarah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of melissa R. Green >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >> >> I am a little behind. >> So saved this message to respond to. >> Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. >> One time I was really sick. >> I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped >> at >> my >> foot. >> I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my >> appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. >> You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use >> them. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Sincerely, >> Melissa R. Green >> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of >> Carrie Gilmer >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >> >> These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- >> >> You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, >> take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to >> seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a >> pharmacy. >> >> Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how >> many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a >> fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as >> well-okay >> that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help >> in >> employment readiness. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carrie Gilmer, President >> >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >> >> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >> >> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >> >> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >> >> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >> >> www.nfb.org/nopbc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co >> m >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 >> 9:36 >> AM >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 >> 7:01 >> PM >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B >> 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 15 07:48:43 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:48:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> Message-ID: Thank you all for your help. I'd never heard of them before so it's great to learn from those who use them on a daily basis. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:51 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers Hi Sara, Nfb centers accept international students, at least I heard LCB does. The centers teach daily living tasks nonvisually. You have classes five days a week. They are generally: braille, computers, cane travel, and home management. There is also woodshop mainly as a confidence builder. The nfb philosophy of seeing blindness as an inconvenience is incorporated in to the teaching. NFB centers employ many blind people as role instructors and they serve as role models. I'm sure you can call one and talk to the director for more info. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > I'd check out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They > should have all the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who > graduated from there, and another friend who's there currently. You > guys might know this guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of > anything bad, but because I want to say he's a good guy and I've been > talking to him on the phone lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in > the center for quite a while, and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah, > as for you, I'm sure there's lots of stuff in Canada for you to check > out, but if you have any questions, please ask any of the people > who've been to a blind center. They can tell you what's up and what > the policy is. > Beth > > On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> Hi all, >> I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't >> anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I >> can >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less >> formal >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled >> classes or is a drop-in type deal? >> Thank you for your help. >> Sarah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jraichle at carthage.edu Sat Nov 15 08:58:41 2008 From: jraichle at carthage.edu (Jessica R) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:58:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> Message-ID: <17C7C6DBEEFD4FADB69C12D72AB5544A@D6RYFF31> You will also take classes on employment skills and/or college prep courses. From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:05:41 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:05:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Education Legislation Message-ID: Dear all, The web site team is looking for state-level legislation to incorporate into its advocacy section on the upcoming release of the NABS web site. Please help us by providing links or text to your respective Braille bills or bills pertaining to higher education textbook accessibility. If you yourself are not sure how to find said bills, or if you are not sure whether or not they exist in your state, please help us by forwarding this request to your affiliate officers. Ultimately, we want students to be able to quickly access relevant legislation in the event there are disputes regarding accommodations. Your help in this endeavor is crucial. Thank you in advance. Regards, Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:25:22 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:25:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> <70171E5F60554BCDA1B8A626B4BA5613@Ashley> <4383d01d0811142235m1323209et610bdcb1c537feec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811150625h3f499e68s7155b4f212a4b0b7@mail.gmail.com> Here in the U.S., there are problems with America's healthcare, and blind people are looked at as the most often incompetent users of healthcare. We need to know about health insurance, and I was told that I wasn't able to handle health matters. But I know I can do this and if I go to the ER like I did this past December, then I will have benefits. My parents have health insurance, but I'm not sure if an employer will give me a health plan that will cover medications related to psychological issues. Sometimes, it's a battle whether or not to tell the employer you're blind much less on medications for some issues, but if you don't, I think, you won't get what you need. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Oh yeah universal health care, but not everything is free. Some things, like > dental care and now eye care, can only be covered by workplaces's benefit > plans i.e. through insurance. It's a bit confusing and I don't quite > understand it. But it's great knowing that in an emergency situation no one > will be stuck in a tight financial situation. It's not a perfect system, but > I think it's a real plus. It does mean that wait times are longer and that > taxes are higher, but I think it's better that everyone should have an equal > chance of access. That's just my thinking. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:35 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > No offense intended, but doesn't Canada have universal healthcare? > I'm also told that Sweden has universal healthcare. > Beth > > On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> Thank Ashley that's awesome. Many prescriptions must be paid for, so > that's >> something to keep in mind. I think insurance/health plan covers the rest, >> but the sad thing is I don't know what I have to pay for and what I don't. >> It's not all free. Maybe I should start researching Medicare ... smile. >> Thanks again though. >> Sarah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:00 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned >> >> Sara, I also need to develop those skills. I know little about health > care >> >> since my parents take me to the doctors when needed. Here are some ideas. >> Next time you go to the doctor, make your own appointment. Obviously > you'll >> >> need a ride there. If you need a prescription filled later, first time go >> to the pharmacy with a parent or someone you trust. They can explain what >> to do. Sometimes you can phone in prescriptions depending on the drug >> store. Then later when the prescription is filled you just walk in with >> identification and I think your insurance card and retrieve the medicine. > I >> >> know health care is free in Cananda but usually in the US you'll pay a > small >> >> amount for medicine when you get it and your insurance pays the rest. >> Personally, I'd rather not visit a doctor's office alone due to the >> paperwork. I want to fill it out with someone I know; its confidential >> info. If you were alone, I suppose a nurse or someone would act as your >> scribe. As to buying over the counter medicine, I think you buy it with >> customer service help just as you would any other item. >> >> HTH, >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sarah Jevnikar" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned >> >> >>> These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about >>> learning/bettering them? >>> Sarah >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of melissa R. Green >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >>> >>> I am a little behind. >>> So saved this message to respond to. >>> Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. >>> One time I was really sick. >>> I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped >>> at >>> my >>> foot. >>> I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my >>> appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. >>> You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use >>> them. >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Sincerely, >>> Melissa R. Green >>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of >>> Carrie Gilmer >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned >>> >>> These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- >>> >>> You should know how to use health services confidently, make > appointments, >>> take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how > to >>> seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a >>> pharmacy. >>> >>> Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how >>> many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a >>> fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as >>> well-okay >>> that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help >>> in >>> employment readiness. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>> >>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>> >>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>> >>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>> >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> >>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co >>> m >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 >>> 9:36 >>> AM >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: > 11/12/2008 >>> 7:01 >>> PM >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. >>> >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B >>> 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3612 (20081113) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:26:59 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:26:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> <1A0DCFB09E5749AAA2129C7577425C0A@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811150626u3f8b9ddei9207e8f748ec2518@mail.gmail.com> You're right, Sarah. However, my thing is that I've metsome great friends while getting my food, but I meet my true friends doing other thigs like going out to restaurants and in class and walking around. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > I think the food thing is all a part of the university experience and is > part of socialization too. How can we meet true new friends if we rely > totally on others for support in basic things like getting food? Obviously > assistance in this area is great and necessary, but note how I said full > reliance on others. > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > Serena, > > Very well said and I totally agree. While serving food and navigating > cafeterias is important, in college academics and socializing are more > important. We have to advocate to instructors, hire/fire readers, scan > matterial and lots of stuff our peers won't deal with. So navigating a > cafeteria would add one more stress and chore to it. Part of independence > is knowing when to get assistance. > > Serena, totally identify with you on the small hands and spatial > orientation challenges and this makes navigating a loud cafeteria easier > said than done. > > I've been to other cafeterias with family and coworkers when I was at > internships and in my opinion college cafeterias are not like the "real > world". College dining halls are more loud, full of chaos, and more messy > since students can be that way and won't clean up. Oh, and have you come > across tables where many chairs are sticking out. People don't have the > curtesy to push in chairs! I do not see that at regular cafeterias. I > think there are other ways in college to work on carrying trays and getting > food. How about at mall food courts. > If you go to a buffet with friends this is a better place to practice i > think. Its quieter. > > Serena, if you're still reading here is some ideas for the spatial > orientation thing. Of course if you have assistance you can walk sighted > guide and not worry about it but if you walk more independently here are > some thoughts. I would not recommend at college settings but try other > cafeterias such as at a work site; there was an excellent cafeteria I ate at > > in the county government center. > I've not done it on my own yet but almost did and I've talked to other blind > > people about it, so here it goes. > For orientation: > Walk around with a sighted friend at a pretty quiet time. To know this, > talk to the manager when business slows down. > This way you won't be disrupting the flow of traffic and have time to > explore. > The sighted person can tell you what station serves what. They can explain > where the utensils and trays are. > Listen for clues such as the cash register. See if you can smell different > aromas from different corners. For instance I think the grill has a > distinct smell. > Ask what the layout is if you can't figure it out. For instance the > government cafeteria is a semi circle with the salad/soup bar in the middle. > > After exploring write down what you remember. If it helps to see > relationships, have them help you make a tactile map. > When you actually go on your own and buy food, if you can't figure it out, > ask questions. > > Hth, > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Peter, >> >> Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the >> cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're >> not great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. >> The cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in > >> the sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of >> the only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about >> getting help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing >> with academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to > >> negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at >> orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something >> independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is >> knowing when to ask for assistance. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good evening everyone, >>> >>> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >>> food. >>> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >>> layouts >>> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >>> cafeteria >>> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >>> medicine for this condition. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >>> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >>> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >>> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >>> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >>> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >>> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >>> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >>> you this, or merely a student? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>> because >>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>> today >>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>> saying >>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>> bring it >>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>> it >>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>> basic >>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>> have >>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>> said >>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>> that >>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>> comments >>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>> of >>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>> dollars >>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>> don't mean to >>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>> in college. >>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>> hands. I >>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>> then, the >>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>> bought my own >>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>> campus and >>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>> trying to >>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>> >>>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>> staff >>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>> good >>>>>>> idea >>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>> your are >>>>>>> finished shopping. >>> >>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>> that >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>> if she >>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>> nursing >>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>> offer to >>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>> a >>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>> to wait >>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>> my >>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>> take >>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>> window >>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>> Courtney >>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>> bring >>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>> them >>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>> tray >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>> you >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> day. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>> my >>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>> than >>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>> has >>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>> needed >>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>> I >>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>> second >>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>> area. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >>> er%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >>> en%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3614 (20081114) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:35:43 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:35:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> Message-ID: Sarah, there are blindness seminars on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. These seminars have many issues that can be discussed. Whatever issue comes up is generally the issue that is discussed. It is always a blindness issue that is discussed. The whole center come together and discuss whatever issue about blindness is discussed. Students ask questions to the adults at the Center or to the staff at the center. I remember some of the staff sharing their experiences in seminar. They were helpful a good time to ask questions and share ideas with other students and staff at the center. It was two hours so it did get a bit long. > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:51:03 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > Hi Sara,> Nfb centers accept international students, at least I heard LCB does. The > centers teach daily living tasks nonvisually. You have classes five days a > week. They are generally: braille, computers, cane travel, and home > management. There is also woodshop mainly as a confidence builder. The nfb > philosophy of seeing blindness as an inconvenience is incorporated in to the > teaching. NFB centers employ many blind people as role instructors and they > serve as role models. I'm sure you can call one and talk to the director > for more info.> > Ashley> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:23 AM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > > > I'd check out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They> > should have all the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who> > graduated from there, and another friend who's there currently. You> > guys might know this guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of> > anything bad, but because I want to say he's a good guy and I've been> > talking to him on the phone lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in> > the center for quite a while, and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah,> > as for you, I'm sure there's lots of stuff in Canada for you to check> > out, but if you have any questions, please ask any of the people> > who've been to a blind center. They can tell you what's up and what> > the policy is.> > Beth> >> > On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:> >> Hi all,> >> I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't> >> anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I > >> can> >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less > >> formal> >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled> >> classes or is a drop-in type deal?> >> Thank you for your help.> >> Sarah> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net> >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.> >> > http://www.eset.com> >> > > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 15:59:12 2008 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:59:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i do start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic suddenly. Take care. Sarah "Alawami The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. Thanks and have a wonderful day. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what blind people actually use. Beth On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the > money needed for this project? > > For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing > the street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. > Thanks > to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired > individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool > already in their pockets - their cell phone. > > The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation > for the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while > wearing glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual > impairment, many conditions - including visual noise, walking at night > and irregular intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. > > Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, > Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. > > "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more > likely to > > be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, > professor > > of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent > that the > > blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b > > The new technology utilizes features already available in many > cellular > > phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite > (GPS) > > functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired > pedestrians. > > Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing > > signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. > > Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel > while crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, > nothing happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning > activates alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides > directions on how to get back within the safety zone. Should the > walker somehow end up in the middle of the intersection, the system > automatically would turn every light red, stopping traffic and > averting a potential disaster. > > "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns > when it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt > them for a few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists > a traffic victim." > > To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who > need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. > > The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the > installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the > country. > Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost > effective, it simplifies the existing system. > > Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre > provide help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. > However, > the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of > wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so > at any given time, the control box knows each state. > > Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already > required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet > over power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power > lines. > > The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have > established dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials > to commence in June. They are building prototypes supported by funds > from the University Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher > Education Research Council and their commercial partner, Campbell > Company, who currently makes the accessible pedestrian signals that > chirp and talk for the handicapped. > > "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices > actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're > using existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. > It's > cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can > be immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the > country." > > If you would like more information, or to speak with the people > involved, please let me know. > > Ken Kingery > > Science/Research Writer > > University of Idaho > > Office: 208-885-9156 > > Cell: 614-570-3942 > > --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB > F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA > 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >> (1) Reply (via web post) < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz > U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj > A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >> | Start a new topic < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz > U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw > YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> > Messages < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >> | Files < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M > zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml > sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Photos < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG > hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >> | Links < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M > zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl > ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Database < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Polls < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M > zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 > sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >> | Members < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk > 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb > WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, > send a blank email to: > LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > MARKETPLACE > ________________________________ > > >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods > >< > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 > 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c > -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo > .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> > Yahoo! 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Groups > > Join people over 40 < > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odd0v56/M=493064.12662708.12980600.86745 > 78/D=groups/S=1705189052:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=4Q9FDkLaX9c-/J > =1226173318658236/A=5349276/R=0/SIG=11nhsqmjq/*http://advision.webeven > ts.yahoo.com/EverydayWellness/> > > who are finding ways > > to stay in shape. > > Special K Group > > on Yahoo! Groups < > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pd7b6pp/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323 > 196/D=groups/S=1705189052:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=4g9FDkLaX9c-/ > J=1226173318658236/A=5170416/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yaho > o.com/specialKgroup> > > Learn how others > > are losing pounds. > > . > > __,_._,___ > > Quick Reply > > To: Sharona Silverman More Reply Options > > Send > Save Draft > Include quoted text with reply > > < Back to Inbox > Archive > Report Spam > Delete > More Actions... > Go > < Newer > 6 of 114 > Older > > > Search accurately with > operators > including from: to: subject:. > You are currently using 85 MB (1%) of your 7261 MB > > Last account activity: 1 hour ago on this computer. > Details > > Gmail view: > standard | > basic HTML > Learn more > > (c)2008 Google - > Terms - > Gmail Blog - > Google Home > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 16:00:16 2008 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:00:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com><00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> Message-ID: <5ADC3D3FD29340418F48A0CF0EC63048@sarahd0fffdcf6> Well the one thing I can say is to use them. Call transportation on the phone when you need to do something, or practice taking the buss, if you have one where you live. Take care. Sarah "Alawami The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. Thanks and have a wonderful day. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 12:40 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about learning/bettering them? Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa R. Green Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned I am a little behind. So saved this message to respond to. Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. One time I was really sick. I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped at my foot. I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use them. Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in employment readiness. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co m No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 7:01 PM ____________________________________________________________ Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 15 16:08:18 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:08:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> Message-ID: <000701c9473c$614ce910$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, Carlos is a guide dog user and has his dog at the LCB with him. There are currently four guide dog users training at the Louisiana Center for the Blind right now and all of them brought their dogs with them. Sarah Alawami is another guide dog user who is currently at the Louisiana Center for the Blind as is Cathy Davis of Florida.I know all of these people. Let anyone who still believes that our centers are down on guide dog users read the above and ponder well. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Yoo" To: Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers Sarah, there are blindness seminars on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. These seminars have many issues that can be discussed. Whatever issue comes up is generally the issue that is discussed. It is always a blindness issue that is discussed. The whole center come together and discuss whatever issue about blindness is discussed. Students ask questions to the adults at the Center or to the staff at the center. I remember some of the staff sharing their experiences in seminar. They were helpful a good time to ask questions and share ideas with other students and staff at the center. It was two hours so it did get a bit long. > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:51:03 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > Hi Sara,> Nfb centers accept international students, at least I heard LCB does. The > centers teach daily living tasks nonvisually. You have classes five days a > week. They are generally: braille, computers, cane travel, and home > management. There is also woodshop mainly as a confidence builder. The nfb > philosophy of seeing blindness as an inconvenience is incorporated in to the > teaching. NFB centers employ many blind people as role instructors and they > serve as role models. I'm sure you can call one and talk to the director > for more info.> > Ashley> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:23 AM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > > > I'd check out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They> > should have all the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who> > graduated from there, and another friend who's there currently. You> > guys might know this guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of> > anything bad, but because I want to say he's a good guy and I've been> > talking to him on the phone lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in> > the center for quite a while, and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah,> > as for you, I'm sure there's lots of stuff in Canada for you to check> > out, but if you have any questions, please ask any of the people> > who've been to a blind center. They can tell you what's up and what> > the policy is.> > Beth> >> > On 11/15/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:> >> Hi all,> >> I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't> >> anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I > >> can> >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less > >> formal> >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled> >> classes or is a drop-in type deal?> >> Thank you for your help.> >> Sarah> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net> >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.> >> > http://www.eset.com> >> > > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 15 16:18:45 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:18:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene><001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0811142007g33d167c2iefbbf18ede88a695@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01c9473d$d5cd2ba0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, Demonstrating to a potential employer that you are able to manage yourself and can get around a workplace independently is definitely a battle all of must fight. There's no choice when it comes to this one. There are still members of the public who believe we're unable to get our own meals, or still worse use the bathroom independently. If we refuse to address these skill sets not only are we selling ourselves short, but we're perpetuating and reinforcing these beliefs in the minds of the public. The thinking goes like this, "If this blind lady can't get her own food how will she ever be able to get around my workplace or run errands." Those of us who choose not to learn something as simple as serving one's self in a restaurant cafeteria line will pay the price of failing to learn these valuable skills. I've seen it happen all too often. Keep talking to Carlos about the LCB and discuss your situation with Pam Allen. All the best. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food Peter, I agree with Serena because, in my opinion, you've got to choose your battles. I've chosen not t fight with the cafeteria scene so much, and I know it would help me navigate a workplace later in life, but in reality, academics and socialization are more important because with academics, you have to write papers and do research and stuff. With socialization, you have to work hard at elegance and eating and food manners and even datng etiquette and so on. It will win yourself a good partner in life and a good place in society. That's just my two cents. Beth On 11/14/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Serena and listers, > > Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable you > to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go > hand-in-hand. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Peter, > > Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the > cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're > not > great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The > cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in the > sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the > only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about > getting > help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with > academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to > negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at > orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something > independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is > knowing > when to ask for assistance. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > >> Good evening everyone, >> >> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >> food. >> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >> layouts >> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >> cafeteria >> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >> medicine for this condition. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >> you this, or merely a student? >> >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Beth >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >> because >>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >> today >>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >> saying >>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >> bring it >>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >> it >>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >> basic >>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >> have >>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >> said >>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >> that >>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >> comments >>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >> of >>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >> dollars >>>going into MY meal plan. >>>Beth >> >>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >> don't mean to >>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >> in college. >>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >> hands. I >>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >> then, the >>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >> bought my own >>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >> campus and >>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >> trying to >>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >> >>>> Serena >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >> staff >>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >> good >>>>>> idea >>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >> your are >>>>>> finished shopping. >> >>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >> that >>>>>> problem >>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >> if she >>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >> nursing >>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >> offer to >>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >> a >>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >> to wait >>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >> my >>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >> >>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >> take >>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >> window >>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>> Courtney >> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >> bring >>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >> >>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >> them >>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >> tray >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >> you >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >> ability >>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >> impact >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> day. >> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >> problem >>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >> my >>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >> hand >>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >> than >>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >> maneuver >>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >> has >>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >> needed >>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >> aren't >>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >> I >>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >> to >>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >> holding >>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >> first >>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >> second >>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >> serving >>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >> >>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >> option, >>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >> of >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >> independently >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >> it's >>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >> overcome >>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >> was a >>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >> of >>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >> at >>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >> where >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >> for >>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >> and >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >> >>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >> weight is >>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >> feel >>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >> be >>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >> area. >> >>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >> serve >>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >> time with >>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >> problem >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >> holding >>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >> had to >>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >> bowl >>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >> have >>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >> bring it >>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >> (like >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >> hand >>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >> handle >>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >> >>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>> piece >> of >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >> you >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >> it is >>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >> think >>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >> survor >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >> where >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >> er%40comcast.net >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >> en%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus >>>>>>> signature database 3608 (20081113) __________ >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizon.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 16:53:20 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:53:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T History 101 for Antonio Message-ID: <73878E513E70436C9A46340415F39AAB@MonkeyPaw> This one's for my good friend Antonio, but partake all ye who wish a little humor. It has nothing to do with blindness, and for that I apologize in advance and promise not to post off-topic nonsense for the rest of the year. What follows is offensive, so if you're easily offended, read it anyway. It's a slight continuation of the debate we had last month about the left versus the right. Enjoy it, and I'll do my best to find some equally amusing humor that takes up for the other side. Next year, of course, because I did just promise to stop my off-topic messages. Seriously, I hope you find it sarcastically amusing. Best, Joe Orozco *History Simplified with Actual Material* *History 101 (Crash course)* * For those that don't know about history ... Here is a condensed version: Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter. The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups: 1. Liberals, and 2. Conservatives. Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed. Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement. Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement. Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.* * Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass. Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat. Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living. Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. Here ends today's lesson in world history: It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above before forwarding it. A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals just to tick them off.* * **And there you have it. Let your next action reveal your true self**.* WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE From mpeskoe at insightbb.com Sat Nov 15 16:56:54 2008 From: mpeskoe at insightbb.com (Melanie Peskoe) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:56:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for MB\a's or MBA Students Message-ID: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Hello, my name is Melanie Peskoe. I am from Louisville, Kentucky and I will be starting an MBA program soon. I would like to connect with other NFB members who either have their MBA, or are pursuing an MBA. I specifically would like to find out about general MBA program structure and what alternative techniques you've used in and out of the classroom. I'd like to know also, in day to day work, what computer programs, charts, graphs, etc. do you encounter and how do you access them. I would be interested in finding a group of people to either start a list or meet during the convention next year. Please feel free to email me at mpeskoe at insightbb.com. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Melanie Peskoe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail24.dat Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 17:04:12 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:04:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food In-Reply-To: <001f01c9473d$d5cd2ba0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene> <001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0811142007g33d167c2iefbbf18ede88a695@mail.gmail.com> <001f01c9473d$d5cd2ba0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811150904q580e1bccxbc367d8c2209bc2b@mail.gmail.com> I'll think about it, and I'll see if I can't get some sort of training. Beth On 11/15/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Beth and listers, > > Demonstrating to a potential employer that you are able to manage > yourself and can get around a workplace independently is definitely a battle > all of must fight. There's no choice when it comes to this one. There are > still members of the public who believe we're unable to get our own meals, > or still worse use the bathroom independently. If we refuse to address these > skill sets not only are we selling ourselves short, but we're perpetuating > and reinforcing these beliefs in the minds of the public. The thinking goes > like this, "If this blind lady can't get her own food how will she ever be > able to get around my workplace or run errands." Those of us who choose not > to learn something as simple as serving one's self in a restaurant cafeteria > line will pay the price of failing to learn these valuable skills. I've seen > it happen all too often. Keep talking to Carlos about the LCB and discuss > your situation with Pam Allen. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Peter, > > I agree with Serena because, in my opinion, you've got to choose your > battles. I've chosen not t fight with the cafeteria scene so much, > and I know it would help me navigate a workplace later in life, but in > reality, academics and socialization are more important because with > academics, you have to write papers and do research and stuff. With > socialization, you have to work hard at elegance and eating and food > manners and even datng etiquette and so on. It will win yourself a > good partner in life and a good place in society. That's just my two > cents. > Beth > > On 11/14/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Serena and listers, >> >> Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable you >> to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go >> hand-in-hand. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Peter, >> >> Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the >> cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're >> not >> great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The >> cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in the >> sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the >> only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about >> getting >> help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with >> academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to >> negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at >> orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something >> independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is >> knowing >> when to ask for assistance. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good evening everyone, >>> >>> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >>> food. >>> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >>> layouts >>> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >>> cafeteria >>> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the best >>> medicine for this condition. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >>> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >>> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >>> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >>> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >>> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >>> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >>> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >>> you this, or merely a student? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>> because >>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>> today >>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>> saying >>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>> bring it >>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>> it >>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>> basic >>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>> have >>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>> said >>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>> that >>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>> comments >>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>> of >>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>> dollars >>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>> don't mean to >>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>> in college. >>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>> hands. I >>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>> then, the >>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>> bought my own >>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>> campus and >>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>> trying to >>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>> >>>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>> staff >>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>> good >>>>>>> idea >>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>> your are >>>>>>> finished shopping. >>> >>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>> that >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>> if she >>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>> nursing >>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>> offer to >>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>> a >>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>> to wait >>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>> my >>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>> take >>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>> window >>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>> Courtney >>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>> bring >>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>> them >>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>> tray >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>> you >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> day. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>> my >>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>> than >>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>> has >>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>> needed >>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>> I >>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>> second >>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up an >>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the mechanics >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I improved >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a great >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>> area. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the angle >>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that because >>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty much >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my plate >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up a >>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some of >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >>> er%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >>> en%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 17:05:49 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:05:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <000701c9473c$614ce910$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <4383d01d0811142223r6f57731ajd18966eac77350fd@mail.gmail.com> <75D0309AF5D548F08F7A8DA44F792105@Ashley> <000701c9473c$614ce910$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811150905t581c0007m71b6d3bbc93d59f4@mail.gmail.com> I know Carlos very well, and so does one of my RA's on the floor of my dorm. Beth On 11/15/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Beth and listers, > > Carlos is a guide dog user and has his dog at the LCB with him. There > are currently four guide dog users training at the Louisiana Center for the > Blind right now and all of them brought their dogs with them. Sarah Alawami > is another guide dog user who is currently at the Louisiana Center for the > Blind as is Cathy > Davis of Florida.I know all of these people. > > Let anyone who still believes that our centers are down on guide dog > users read the above and ponder well. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Yoo" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:35 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > > > > Sarah, there are blindness seminars on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the > Louisiana Center for the Blind. These seminars have many issues that can be > discussed. Whatever issue comes up is generally the issue that is discussed. > It is always a blindness issue that is discussed. The whole center come > together and discuss whatever issue about blindness is discussed. Students > ask questions to the adults at the Center or to the staff at the center. I > remember some of the staff sharing their experiences in seminar. They were > helpful a good time to ask questions and share ideas with other students and > staff at the center. It was two hours so it did get a bit long. > From: > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 > 01:51:03 -0500> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > Hi Sara,> Nfb > centers accept international students, at least I heard LCB does. The > > centers teach daily living tasks nonvisually. You have classes five days a > > week. They are generally: braille, computers, cane travel, and home > > management. There is also woodshop mainly as a confidence builder. The nfb > > philosophy of seeing blindness as an inconvenience is incorporated in to the > > teaching. NFB centers employ many blind people as role instructors and > they > serve as role models. I'm sure you can call one and talk to the > director > for more info.> > Ashley> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, > 2008 1:23 AM> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > > > I'd check > out the Louisiana Center for the Blind's website. They> > should have all > the rules and regulations there. I have a friend who> > graduated from > there, and another friend who's there currently. You> > guys might know this > guy. Pssst, don't want to name him because of> > anything bad, but because I > want to say he's a good guy and I've been> > talking to him on the phone > lately. It's Carlos Montas, who's been in> > the center for quite a while, > and I hope to hea from him soon. Sarah,> > as for you, I'm sure there's lots > of stuff in Canada for you to check> > out, but if you have any questions, > please ask any of the people> > who've been to a blind center. They can tell > you what's up and what> > the policy is.> > Beth> >> > On 11/15/08, Sarah > Jevnikar wrote:> >> Hi all,> >> I have a > question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't> >> > anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I > > >> can> >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a > less > >> formal> >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are > there scheduled> >> classes or is a drop-in type deal?> >> Thank you for > your help.> >> Sarah> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________> >> nabs-l mailing list> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> >> nabs-l:> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________> > nabs-l mailing > list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l:> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________> >> > The message was checked > by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.> >> > http://www.eset.com> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > See how Windows(R) connects the people, information, and fun that are part of > your life > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 17:11:15 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:11:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned In-Reply-To: <5ADC3D3FD29340418F48A0CF0EC63048@sarahd0fffdcf6> References: <490ca3fe.1b2d400a.6eba.ffffefa0@mx.google.com> <00fb01c9456b$25734ba0$7059e2e0$@com> <5ADC3D3FD29340418F48A0CF0EC63048@sarahd0fffdcf6> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811150911y3a7d2e8ckaa8c28217c49e12@mail.gmail.com> I had to educate a psych ward staff about blind people and that canes were not weapons of destruction, so the security people had to let me keep the cane and my wach since it was Braille. Beth On 11/15/08, Sarah Alawami wrote: > Well the one thing I can say is to use them. Call transportation on the > phone when you need to do something, or practice taking the buss, if you > have one where you live. > > Take care. > > Sarah "Alawami > The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at > http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. > > Thanks and have a wonderful day. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Jevnikar > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 12:40 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two important Skills not mentioned > > These are definitely skills I need to develop. How can I go about > learning/bettering them? > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of melissa R. Green > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:38 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > I am a little behind. > So saved this message to respond to. > Knowing those skills has helped me a lot. > One time I was really sick. > I had a blood clott that went all the way down my right side and stopped at > my foot. > I remember having to educate the hospital staff, and having to make my > appointments and arrange transportation to and from those appointments. > You don't know how valuable those skills are until you really have to use > them. > > > Best regards, > Sincerely, > Melissa R. Green > Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Carrie Gilmer > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:46 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Two imprtant Skills not mentioned > > These might not seen like it but can be a problem if not mastered- > > You should know how to use health services confidently, make appointments, > take care of yourself when commonly ill, when to seek medical care, how to > seek it, how to ask a doctor questions independently, how to use a pharmacy. > > Also how to mail stuff! It was shocking to me at the training center how > many students did not know how to use the post office. Learn how to use a > fax machine and a copier and to use a copy or printing service as well-okay > that is a third thing. These things can benefit you as a student and help in > employment readiness. > > > > > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co > m > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 > 9:36 > AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: 11/12/2008 > 7:01 > PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN8d7QLB4VkY4R9kLV8KKX1B > 0MAboktIbRLyNN76gH6w4Z/ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From amylsabo at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 18:23:24 2008 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:23:24 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers Message-ID: <111520081823.25092.491F139C00094CF2000062042205886442010D0E9C0497030E@comcast.net> hello sarah, besides lcb there is also blind inc in minnesota and also the colorado center for the blind in my school state of colorado. both centers have had international students attend their programs. to learn more about them here is the web sites for both blind inc in minnesota and ccb in colorado. blind inc. www.blindinc.org colorado center for the blind www.cocenter.org i hope this information will help you out. take care and i will talk to you soon! hugs, amy sabo -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" > Hi all, > I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't > anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can > try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal > or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled > classes or is a drop-in type deal? > Thank you for your help. > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 15 18:53:00 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:53:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training References: <20081114001847.EBFT2091.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote><003101c9460a$bc921f80$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><007e01c946b5$24a667c0$0201a8c0@Serene><001301c946c9$5c77b690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><4383d01d0811142007g33d167c2iefbbf18ede88a695@mail.gmail.com><001f01c9473d$d5cd2ba0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0811150904q580e1bccxbc367d8c2209bc2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000501c94753$6332c8a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, Do it. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food I'll think about it, and I'll see if I can't get some sort of training. Beth On 11/15/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Beth and listers, > > Demonstrating to a potential employer that you are able to manage > yourself and can get around a workplace independently is definitely a > battle > all of must fight. There's no choice when it comes to this one. There are > still members of the public who believe we're unable to get our own meals, > or still worse use the bathroom independently. If we refuse to address > these > skill sets not only are we selling ourselves short, but we're perpetuating > and reinforcing these beliefs in the minds of the public. The thinking > goes > like this, "If this blind lady can't get her own food how will she ever be > able to get around my workplace or run errands." Those of us who choose > not > to learn something as simple as serving one's self in a restaurant > cafeteria > line will pay the price of failing to learn these valuable skills. I've > seen > it happen all too often. Keep talking to Carlos about the LCB and discuss > your situation with Pam Allen. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food > > > Peter, > > I agree with Serena because, in my opinion, you've got to choose your > battles. I've chosen not t fight with the cafeteria scene so much, > and I know it would help me navigate a workplace later in life, but in > reality, academics and socialization are more important because with > academics, you have to write papers and do research and stuff. With > socialization, you have to work hard at elegance and eating and food > manners and even datng etiquette and so on. It will win yourself a > good partner in life and a good place in society. That's just my two > cents. > Beth > > On 11/14/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Serena and listers, >> >> Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable >> you >> to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go >> hand-in-hand. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >> Peter, >> >> Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the >> cafeteria. This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're >> not >> great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands. The >> cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in >> the >> sense that they owe us anything. Having said that, if that's one of the >> only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about >> getting >> help with serving our food. I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with >> academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to >> negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at >> orienting etc. It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something >> independently if we know we need help. Part of being independent is >> knowing >> when to ask for assistance. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >> >> >>> Good evening everyone, >>> >>> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your >>> food. >>> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room >>> layouts >>> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a >>> cafeteria >>> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade" is the >>> best >>> medicine for this condition. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hope Paulos" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>> HiBeth. I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go >>> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very >>> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in >>> walking around to each station. Then they'll assist me with >>> ringing me up and to find a table. This cafeteria is really big. >>> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs >>> everywhere. There are balconies to sit on, too. It's a nice >>> place, but I don't like the size. Smile. As far as what the >>> woman said, it was uncalled for. Was that an employee that told >>> you this, or merely a student? >>> >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Beth >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is >>> because >>>>there are less of them doing more work. The manager e-mailed me >>> today >>>>when I sent him an e-mail. I e-mailed the location manager >>> saying >>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just >>> bring it >>>>to me. Well, not a bad idea. But I'll have to let him know if >>> it >>>>appens again. Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my >>> basic >>>>needs right about now. But I could get my own tray, but then I'd >>> have >>>>to carry it around all day. But then there's this one lady who >>> said >>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer. I mean, not in >>> that >>>>manner we're talking about. I didn't appreciate the woman's >>> comments >>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of >>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division >>> of >>>>Blind Services sponsors it. It's still thousands of taxpayer >>> dollars >>>>going into MY meal plan. >>>>Beth >>> >>>>On 11/13/08, Serena wrote: >>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you. I >>> don't mean to >>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food >>> in college. >>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small >>> hands. I >>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but >>> then, the >>>>> managers got everybody on board. I realize now, I could've >>> bought my own >>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to >>> campus and >>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than >>> trying to >>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene. >>> >>>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>> Good idea. I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the >>> staff >>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray? >>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a >>> good >>>>>>> idea >>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before >>> your are >>>>>>> finished shopping. >>> >>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride. Much easier said than done. I had >>> that >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> too. But ask around. Ask your hall mates. Ask your roommate >>> if she >>>>>>> drives. Any friendly faculty or staff? Once or twice a nice >>> nursing >>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall. If you do get a ride >>> offer to >>>>>>> pay gas or something for it. >>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Good idea. However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus >>>>>>>> service. Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate >>> a >>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up. Worse, I have >>> to wait >>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up. Hence, >>> my >>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait." >>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover wrote: >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>> >>>>>>>>> What about paratransite? I have a friend who schedules them to >>> take >>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next >>> window >>>>>>>>> of opportunity. >>>>>>>>> Courtney >>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather. Trick is to get someone with a car to >>> bring >>>>>>>>>> me down there. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H. Field wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of >>> them >>>>>>>>>>> value for money. Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive >>> tray >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs. Then, simply take your own tray with >>> you >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall. This will improve your >>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to >>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> day. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle. I'm having a huge >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get >>> my >>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself. Since I have to hold a cane in my right >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre >>> than >>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to >>> maneuver >>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff >>> has >>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately. During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I >>> needed >>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out. Their excuse? Short staff. I >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people >>> aren't >>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this. >>> I >>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues. The >>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the >>> second >>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the >>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>> container to your plate and ensuring that you are dishing up >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate amount. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an >>> option, >>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line or from whomever is serving the >>> food/setting up >>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet. Obviously once you've learned the order of the >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>> once, it'll be easier to go back and serve oneself >>> independently >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> second time around. When serving "family-style" and passing >>>>>>>>>>>> dishes >>>>>>>>>>>> around the table, this problem is virtually nonexistent since >>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find out what someone has passed you before serving >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to >>> overcome >>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who were not expected to serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>> growing up. I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I >>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which caused me to struggle a bit with the >>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering the food and gauging the portion size. I >>>>>>>>>>>> improved >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> this a lot when I was in training at the Louisiana Center >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades on) >>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> forty). Like others have said, operating the utensils >>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error. A training center is a >>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too, >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> there's not as much pressure to do it exactly right or move >>>>>>>>>>>> quickly >>>>>>>>>>>> through the line. You can also practice by cooking yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one container to >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> (even if it's just Ramen or Easy Mac). >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes I've used two techniques. One is to >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to my plate or bowl and how the >>> weight is >>>>>>>>>>>> distributed. The other, if it's hot or steaming food that >>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the plate/bowl and >>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food and how far it is >>> spreading. >>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll >>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide >>> area. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come up yet is the proper way to >>> serve >>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc. with a ladel. I used to have the toughest >>> time with >>>>>>>>>>>> this until I went to the center and figured out what my >>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was >>> holding >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually >>>>>>>>>>>> tipped >>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl. I >>> had to >>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the >>> bowl >>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up. I think other blind people >>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I >>> bring it >>>>>>>>>>>> up. You can practice this by playing with an empty ladel >>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold the bowl in your non-dominant >>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> while you angle the handle with your dominant one. Bend the >>> handle >>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the bowl is facing straight up (even >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the >>>>>>>>>>>> angle >>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni >>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will >>> fit. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one >>>>>>>>>>>>> piece >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do >>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many >>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls, >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that >>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc. But I agree >>> it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> important... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family. I >>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill. At family gatherings and on >>> buffet >>>>>>>>>>>>> lines, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>> much >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a >>> survor >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate >>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you? >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my >>>>>>>>>>>>> plate >>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc. I am, >>>>>>>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew >>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> serving >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me. This, then, set up >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent >>>>>>>>>>>>> that as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts. And if we serve >>> ourselves >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so >>> diferent >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets, >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> rice, >>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc. and it's likely you would want some >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu >>> e%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath >>> er%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt >>> en%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing 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_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 19:56:58 2008 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:56:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays In-Reply-To: <009c01c946b6$48df0f60$0201a8c0@Serene> References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com> <4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com> <00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com> <4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda> <4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com> <009c01c946b6$48df0f60$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <423e6e460811151156i13bee030oeead0f2ccc757de6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Beth, There's no need to feel bad for not having experience in using certain alternative techniques. The fact that everyone has different skill levels makes it possible for us to share our experiences as well as offer and ask for advice. After all, if we were all good at everything then we wouldn't be able to enjoy learning from others or be able to teach what we know. Best Wishes, Domonique Lawless listserve co-moderator On 11/14/08, Serena wrote: > You're not he only one, Beth. I can't, either! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list >> ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have >> trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this >> skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to >> without miimal assistance. This is just hard. >> Beth >> >> On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>> Beth, >>> >>> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one >>> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >>> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >>> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >>> going >>> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene >>> >>> as >>> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >>> you'll >>> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found >>> orientation to the lay out. >>> >>> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a >>> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the >>> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >>> understanding >>> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >>> passing >>> time. >>> >>> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various >>> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it >>> at >>> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >>> while >>> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >>> your >>> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >>> tray >>> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >>> middle >>> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >>> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >>> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side >>> of >>> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as >>> >>> my >>> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment >>> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >>> plate, >>> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >>> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >>> while >>> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >>> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing >>> for >>> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe >>> you >>> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >>> room >>> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >>> >>> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >>> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >>> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and >>> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> Yolanda >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>> >>> >>>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>>> I mean? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>>> >>>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>>> >>>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>>> >>>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>>> >>>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>>> you move through the store. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able >>>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way >>>>> out. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>>> Carrie, >>>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> only >>>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in >>>>>> my >>>>>> hands. >>>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>>> the >>>>>> colorado >>>>>> center. >>>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>>> Lol! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>>> >>>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>>> the >>>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>>> start >>>>>> to >>>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the >>>>>> cane. >>>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that >>>>>> long >>>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Beth >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>>> >>>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Albert, >>>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall; >>>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>>> and >>>>>> enjoy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is >>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't >>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand >>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't; >>>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>>> that >>>>>> is >>>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to >>>>>>> a >>>>>> play >>>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of >>>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food >>>>>> court. >>>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or >>>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>>> happening >>>>>> then. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or >>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like >>>>>>> to >>>>>> go >>>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>>> busy >>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball >>>>>>>> or >>>>>> ice >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>>> Unless >>>>>> at >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to >>>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>>> going >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I >>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a >>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either. >>>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I >>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the >>>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real >>>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind >>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other >>>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years >>>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good >>>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a >>>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt >>>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a >>>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he >>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on >>>>>> this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade >>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is >>>>>> often >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even >>>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and >>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they >>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, >>>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>>> how. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1770 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/5/2008 >>>>>> 5:36 >>>>>> PM >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/12/2008 >>>>>> 7:01 >>>>>> PM >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year. >>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 20:02:13 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:02:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T History 101 for Antonio In-Reply-To: <73878E513E70436C9A46340415F39AAB@MonkeyPaw> References: <73878E513E70436C9A46340415F39AAB@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811151202o1fc8422aia22502ff99cc7a61@mail.gmail.com> ROTFL! Beth On 11/15/08, Joe Orozco wrote: > This one's for my good friend Antonio, but partake all ye who wish a little > humor. It has nothing to do with blindness, and for that I apologize in > advance and promise not to post off-topic nonsense for the rest of the year. > What follows is offensive, so if you're easily offended, read it anyway. > It's a slight continuation of the debate we had last month about the left > versus the right. Enjoy it, and I'll do my best to find some equally > amusing humor that takes up for the other side. Next year, of course, > because I did just promise to stop my off-topic messages. Seriously, I hope > you find it sarcastically amusing. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > *History Simplified with Actual Material* > > > *History 101 (Crash course)* > * > For those that don't know about history ... Here is a condensed version: > > Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic > hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and > would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter. > > The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer > and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the > beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the > catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups: > > 1. Liberals, and > 2. Conservatives. > > Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of > agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so > while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, > they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed. > > Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night > while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as > the Conservative movement. > > Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off > the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the > sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal > movement. > > Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became > known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the > domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the > concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that > conservatives provided.* > > * > Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most > powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the > jackass. > > Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white > wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well > done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another > interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher > testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury > attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are > liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't > fair to make the pitcher also bat. > > Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud. They eat red meat and still > provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, > lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police > officers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline > pilots and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own > companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living. > > Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and > decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more > enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in > Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the > Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for > nothing. > > Here ends today's lesson in world history: > > It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily > respond to the above before forwarding it. > > A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth > of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true > believers and to more liberals just to tick them off.* > > * > **And there you have it. Let your next action reveal your true self**.* > > > > > WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, > ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From westbchris at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 22:19:11 2008 From: westbchris at gmail.com (Chris Westbrook) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:19:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Trays References: <4383d01d0811060144v67ed44f2n125f5703520e1c25@mail.gmail.com><4912efba.1b17400a.1aea.7faa@mx.google.com><00fc01c9456b$281fa6f0$785ef4d0$@com><4383d01d0811131309y26b142b4u866870331e6a64d6@mail.gmail.com><000001c94605$719571d0$0201a8c0@yolanda><4383d01d0811140426k4d373c4pf9b88afced70e239@mail.gmail.com><009c01c946b6$48df0f60$0201a8c0@Serene> <423e6e460811151156i13bee030oeead0f2ccc757de6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6EA6413B0CD04B89859E79442FA31B40@chrisw> Frankly, I don't think you should be ashamed of yourself if you don't know how to carry a tray. I mean, if you are physically capable of doing it, sure it's a nice skill to have, but some don't have the balance for it, etc. In that case it is much better to get help then try to do it yourself and make a mess. I myself do not know how to carry a tray by myself, and I somehow made it through four years of collegte and am holding down a successful job. Carrying a tray isn't done much anyway outside of school and maybe fast food places. The people who make the leap from not being able to carry a tray to not being able to get around a work site (and I never had to carry a tray in a job interview) wouldn't hire you anyway, so learn how if you feel motivated, but don't learn because you feel pressured. Sometimes I think we place too much emphasis on one particular skill simply just to put people down. Just my two cents. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > Hi Beth, > There's no need to feel bad for not having experience in using > certain alternative techniques. The fact that everyone has different > skill levels makes it possible for us to share our experiences as > well as offer and ask for advice. After all, if we were all good at > everything then we wouldn't be able to enjoy learning from others or > be able to teach what we know. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique Lawless > listserve co-moderator > > On 11/14/08, Serena wrote: >> You're not he only one, Beth. I can't, either! >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >> >> >>> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list >>> ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have >>> trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this >>> skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to >>> without miimal assistance. This is just hard. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then >>>> one >>>> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open >>>> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some >>>> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is >>>> going >>>> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the >>>> scene >>>> >>>> as >>>> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes, >>>> you'll >>>> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new >>>> found >>>> orientation to the lay out. >>>> >>>> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come >>>> a >>>> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to >>>> the >>>> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >>>> understanding >>>> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each >>>> passing >>>> time. >>>> >>>> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at >>>> various >>>> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding >>>> it >>>> at >>>> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip >>>> while >>>> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from >>>> your >>>> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the >>>> tray >>>> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and >>>> middle >>>> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and >>>> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the >>>> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the >>>> side >>>> of >>>> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then >>>> as >>>> >>>> my >>>> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the >>>> apartment >>>> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty >>>> plate, >>>> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more >>>> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting >>>> while >>>> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the >>>> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then >>>> practicing >>>> for >>>> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. >>>> Maybe >>>> you >>>> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm >>>> room >>>> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. >>>> >>>> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your >>>> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse >>>> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence >>>> and >>>> ease in no time. Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> Yolanda >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>> >>>> >>>>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've >>>>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much >>>>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line >>>>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what >>>>> I mean? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with >>>>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping >>>>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either >>>>>> under the plate or in your pocket. >>>>>> >>>>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and >>>>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around >>>>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the >>>>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" >>>>>> >>>>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a >>>>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for >>>>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or >>>>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as >>>>>> you move through the store. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant >>>>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm >>>>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run, >>>>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be >>>>>> able >>>>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the >>>>>> way >>>>>> out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>>>> Carrie, >>>>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> hands. >>>>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> colorado >>>>>>> center. >>>>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well. >>>>>>> Lol! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things >>>>>>> start >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> cane. >>>>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> long >>>>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I >>>>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At >>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Albert, >>>>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can >>>>>>>> recall; >>>>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> enjoy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> play >>>>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can >>>>>>>> easily >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or >>>>>>>> food >>>>>>> court. >>>>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>>>> happening >>>>>>> then. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're >>>>>>>> busy >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really >>>>>>>> want. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football >>>>>>>>> baseball >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>> ice >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the >>>>>>>>> stadium >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> you were alone. Albert >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>>>> Unless >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is >>>>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not >>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to >>>>>>>>>> restaurants >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. >>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>>>> encountered >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: >>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends >>>>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like >>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone >>>>>>>>>>>> else! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, >>>>>>>>>>>> either. >>>>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really >>>>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> feelings. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the >>>>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy. >>>>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen >>>>>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to >>>>>>>>>>>> winning >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've >>>>>>>>>>>> dealt >>>>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, >>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from >>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> often >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, >>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, >>>>>>>>>>>>> IF >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he >>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't, >>>>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>>>> busy! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>>>>> n.net >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you >>>>>>>>> how. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns >>>>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - 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Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:24:23 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> <9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081116012423.GE5080@yumi.bluecherry.net> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB philosophy is about actions and attitudes. If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. Joseph On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket > marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as > we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading > the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all > of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some > residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization > before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't > think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to > find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, > students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive > philosophy on blindness. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > > Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > > Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as > nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed > something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. > It > might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as > visually > impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. > These > people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want > to > identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... > this > group is for you too! > Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that > we > are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the > visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be > recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > > However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred > and if > we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these > new > individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific > facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the > most > recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention > blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense > according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually > impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology > visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? > > Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to > other > Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject > line > :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the > NABS > list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired > Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness > group of facebook! > ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as > visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature > recently, also. I > am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. > Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that > perhaps > trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur > the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind > members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as > solid > , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> > > I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us > debate > this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our > philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what > it > stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? > > Thoughtfully yours, > > Janice > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > To: "NABS list serve" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of >> the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is >> sometimes a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. >> I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I >> felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >> acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >> models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >> simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote >> NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >> (707)-567-3019 >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 01:40:59 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:40:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC> <433766.35728.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081116014059.GF5080@yumi.bluecherry.net> Harry, I grew up being "visually impaired" or "legally blind" and not just "blind". I have the scars to prove it, and I'm not kidding. The techniques of blindness are frequently not taught to those with a lot of residual vision because it is assumed they don't need them. The thing to consider is that when you're talking about "legal blindness", you are saying that in the best case scenario, a person has as much as 10% the visual acuity of anyone else. There may be additional conditions as to when their vision is that good such as the need to have a lot of light, or as little as possible in my own case. What do such people do in less than ideal situations? The only really effective way to teach the skills of blindness is to remove vision from the equation. If you don't do that, a person is going to use whatever vision they can as best they can. What do they do when they can't, for whatever reason? As the sort of person you're asking about, I can say confidently that there are times when I'm going to have a definite advantage because I can use my residual vision to see what's around me. There's also going to be times you'll have the advantage because you won't have this searing pain to deal with. When dealing with it, I promise, I see no more than you do. Joseph On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 04:37:10PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >I am confused.  If someone could please explain this to me, I would appreciate it.  I am totally blind, so I am not in denial of blidness, but to me there is a significant difference in having 20/200 vision and having no vision at all.  Your vision is then impaired, not completely gone; you do use alternative techniques, but are those not alternative techniques for someone with only partial visio nrather than complete blindness? >  >I'm not trying to irritate anyone; I truly do not know why the NFB is so adament about saying people are blind. >  >Thanks! >  >Harry > > >--- On Wed, 11/5/08, Janice wrote: > >From: Janice >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:33 PM > >Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed >something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It >might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually >impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These >people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to >identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this >group is for you too! >Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we >are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the >visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if >we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new >individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most >recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually >impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology >visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? > >Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other >Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line >:"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the >NABS >list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired >Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >group of facebook! >? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. >Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps >trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid >, and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> > >I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate >this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it >stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? > >Thoughtfully yours, > >Janice >----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >To: "NABS list serve" >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Karen and all, >> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I >felt >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >acceptance >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply >> a >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >> >> Yours, >> Terri Rupp, President >> National Association of Blind Students >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From westbchris at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 02:10:57 2008 From: westbchris at gmail.com (Chris Westbrook) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:10:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <73A37E54DB0449C7B9012A0180A8E6C2@JJeangPC><9C3A4A67-202A-4AF4-8D54-2949E22905F2@gmail.com> <20081116012423.GE5080@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB philosophy >is about actions and attitudes. > > If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take > offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but > am otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > > I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > > Joseph > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket >> marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading >> the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >> of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >> residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization >> before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't >> think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to >> find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, >> students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive >> philosophy on blindness. >> >> ----- >> Corbb O'Connor >> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >> noticed >> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. >> It >> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >> visually >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >> These >> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want >> to >> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >> this >> group is for you too! >> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that >> we >> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the >> visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >> and if >> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >> new >> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >> most >> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >> visually >> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >> terminology >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >> >> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >> other >> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject >> line >> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the >> NABS >> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >> Impaired >> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >> group of facebook! >> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >> visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature >> recently, also. I >> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >> example. >> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >> perhaps >> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >> solid >> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >> >> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >> debate >> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what >> it >> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >> importance? >> >> Thoughtfully yours, >> >> Janice >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> Karen and all, >>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of >>> the >>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes >>> a >>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I >>> felt >>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The >>> acceptance >>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>> models, >>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >>> simply >>> a >>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote >>> NFB >>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Terri Rupp, President >>> National Association of Blind Students >>> (707)-567-3019 >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchris%40gmail.com > From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 03:25:25 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you!  This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind.  To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired.  There is nothing negative about that at all.  If you have no vision you are totally blind.  Nothing wrong with that either.  And if you have some light perception?  If you can't read large print, you are still blind.  But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc).  What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either.  Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but they are not totally deaf."  And the same with blindness.  You can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them visually impaired?  Just because someone has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people think.  And here again, you cna't please everyone.  I gave up on that a long time ago.     --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: From: Chris Westbrook Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > > If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > > I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > > Joseph > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >> >> ----- >> Corbb O'Connor >> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed >> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It >> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These >> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to >> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this >> group is for you too! >> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we >> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if >> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new >> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most >> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually >> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >> >> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other >> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line >> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS >> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired >> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >> group of facebook! >> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. >> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps >> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid >> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >> >> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate >> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it >> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? >> >> Thoughtfully yours, >> >> Janice >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> Karen and all, >>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the >>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a >>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance >>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply >>> a >>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB >>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Terri Rupp, President >>> National Association of Blind Students >>> From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 03:34:36 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:34:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on our termonology. --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: From: Chris Westbrook Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > > If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > > I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > > Joseph > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >> >> ----- >> Corbb O'Connor >> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed >> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It >> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These >> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to >> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this >> group is for you too! >> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we >> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if >> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new >> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most >> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually >> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >> >> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other >> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line >> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS >> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired >> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >> group of facebook! >> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. >> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps >> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid >> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >> >> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate >> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it >> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? >> >> Thoughtfully yours, >> >> Janice >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> Karen and all, >>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the >>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a >>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance >>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply >>> a >>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB >>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Terri Rupp, President >>> National Association of Blind Students >>> From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Nov 16 04:03:45 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:03:45 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081116040224.EWUV19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Sometimes it's easier for people who are not totally blind to call themselves blind or te say they are blind. Especially when explaining something to someone because when you say you're blind, then they'll get the fact that you are blind, but when you say visually impaired, they might question you about your vission and one thing leads to another. It's not a bad thing when they question you, but sometimes it can be umcomfortable because people would either assume that you can see more than you really could or less than you could. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Harry Hogue To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >Thank you!  This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind.  To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired.  There is nothing negative about that at all.  If you have no vision you are totally blind.  Nothing wrong with that either.  And if you have some light perception?  If you can't read large print, you are still blind.  But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc).  What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either.  Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf."  And the same with blindness.  You can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them visually impaired?  Just because someone has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people think.  And here again, you cna't please everyone.  I gave up on that a long time ago. >  >  >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >From: Chris Westbrook Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain >things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> Joseph >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. >Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know >who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out >there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 05:22:49 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:22:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Harry, I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. Morally, that seems wrong to me. I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, you've got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, or you'd best not say anything. Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on our termonology. > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > >From: Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain >things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. >Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know >who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out >there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 05:32:49 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:32:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081116053249.GB6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Sarah, let me offer most of what I wrote on another list just days ago on the subject of what I got out of the Colorado Center for the Blind: I am an alum of the Colorado Center, like many on this list. I can tell you honestly that the CCB did not teach me all of the things I learned while I was in Colorado, but the experience put me in the right places at the right times to leave the center a far stronger individual than I arrived. When I first went to the CCB, I was a cluttered, disorganized "high partial" who depended extensively upon my vision (which I already had accepted as mostly useless). I had accepted the label of blind, and I used a cane, though not well. I couldn't cook, didn't really clean up after myself, and was afraid to cross streets in sunlight. Busy streets made me nervous even at night when I can see better. I didn't know Braille, and I had never really used tools other than for fixing computers before. I came back from the CCB still cluttered and disorganized (it'll take more than eight months to change that in my case!), but I now know how to clean up after myself. I can cook well enough to feed myself, and the food I make is good, if simple. I can do and have done basic home repairs on my own, and I know that I can use the tools in a shop safely. While I never got near the record for Braille speed, I did set the record for fastest Braille reader who had never known Braille as an adult--165 words per minute. Closer to 250 if I can predict the words as on a warm read or a Homerian epic or something. (How many times would I have to read "wine dark sea" before I began to read the phrase automatically?) I can say with certainty that I've since lost almost all of that speed because I have not had the opportunity to practice in three month stretches over the course of graduate school. But you know, I can still feel the dots, if more slowly now, and I know my contractions--I can get it back, any time I am ready. And then there are travel skills. I've got some of the best you'll find anywhere. Some blind people wield their canes with big, heavy-handed, clumsy movements. I use very light, highly controlled movements in a style that is uniquely my own, developed because the way taught by Brent and Eric hurt my hand at first. Eric Woods showed me how to attend to distant sounds and track information available from sometimes several blocks away. I had a natural talent for direction-tracking, and very sharp ears once I began learning what to listen for, but the rest was learned. Combined with problem-solving skills I learned years ago and a few basic tips, it's not really a boast that I'm one of the best travelers to come out of any training center. Just about everything I did is achievable by any blind person who really wants it badly enough. There's nothing really that special about me. It is a testament to the NFB that a guy who is pretty clever can go from virtually no skills to mastery level performance in just eight months. Most state-run centers would have told me 40 words per minute was all an adult Braille learner could do or that there were just some intersections that aren't safe to cross or that one thing or another just wasn't practical. At the CCB, the usual answer to the impractical thing was, "Okay. That's gonna be hard, but okay. How much are you willing to invest to make it happen?" My answer was whatever it took. I won't lie to you, it took a lot. But I put the effort in, and look what I got for it! I believe that what a person will get out of the Colorado Center for the Blind is a function of what they put in to it. The thing is, you'll always get more out than you put in. Hope that helps Sarah! I will be happy to answer any questions you have. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:17:55AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >Hi all, >I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't >anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can >try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal >or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled >classes or is a drop-in type deal? >Thank you for your help. >Sarah From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 06:11:22 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:11:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <405111.79694.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out of the two - blind and alternative.   Harry --- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM Harry, I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. Morally, that seems wrong to me. I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, you've got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, or you'd best not say anything. Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on our termonology. > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > >From: Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain >things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. >Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know >who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out >there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 06:52:56 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:52:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <20081116053249.GB6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Let me make a commen on skills, confidence, aptitude, and so forth.   Perhaps I am speaking from the position of someone who doesn't know what he is talking about because I haven't been in every possible circumstance (I do not have significant physical/mental challgnes, no hearing loss, etc), but I think the idea of a "natural cane traveler" is nonsense.  At least for me, and afterall this is where this comes for is what I hope and expect fo myself, it comes down to a matter of relaxation.  If I worry about something, my body becomes tense, and I find myself walking around that way.  If I relax, and know that what I want is possible, regardless of waht it is, then it will be.  I want to go through a cafeteria, get my plate, find a table, go back for seconds, and so forth?  Why shouldn't I, a totally blind person, do that?   Is it because I doubt myself?  I've never done it, so maybe I'm unsure how to do that.  The only reason someone says something is impossible is because they have never done it themselves and can't imagine how it might be done.  So if I want to do this, why shouldn't I ask questions, pay attention, not excessively to the point of strian/stress, but simply be aware, go through, ask simple questions, use common sense, and expect to do it? It seems to me, and agin this is only from waht I have discovered within myself, that I, or someone else woudln't/coudln't do what I've jsut said for a couple of reasons.   1.  When they think about asking questions, going through the line, down the salad bar, etc. theyget nervous.  This nervousness, although a mental anxiety, comes out physically in their movements, and so they feel shook up, unsure of themselves, and they appear this way to other people.   2.  They have never done it before.  Simple, isn't it?  Well, yes, in a manner of speaking.  A bit of anxiety is normal.  Think about anything that you had never done before, then think of how you felt immediately after you did it.  There is a feeling of 1, that was not as bad as I initially thought (this is nearly almost always the case), and 2, what was I worried about?   Just a brief illustration.  I regularly (almost daily) go to this food court inside my university's student union.  I have a bad habbit of being nervous around sighted people--so basically am nervous anywhere.  Because of this I have a difficult time finding the counter to the food station I want, despite the fact I go there all the itme--I have this problem even still.  When, however, I make an effort to consciously relax and not be so uptight, the difficulties disappear--when I am simply aware and gently focused I find things, avoid poles, and maneuvre without a problem. Make sense?   Harry --- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:32 PM Sarah, let me offer most of what I wrote on another list just days ago on the subject of what I got out of the Colorado Center for the Blind: I am an alum of the Colorado Center, like many on this list. I can tell you honestly that the CCB did not teach me all of the things I learned while I was in Colorado, but the experience put me in the right places at the right times to leave the center a far stronger individual than I arrived. When I first went to the CCB, I was a cluttered, disorganized "high partial" who depended extensively upon my vision (which I already had accepted as mostly useless). I had accepted the label of blind, and I used a cane, though not well. I couldn't cook, didn't really clean up after myself, and was afraid to cross streets in sunlight. Busy streets made me nervous even at night when I can see better. I didn't know Braille, and I had never really used tools other than for fixing computers before. I came back from the CCB still cluttered and disorganized (it'll take more than eight months to change that in my case!), but I now know how to clean up after myself. I can cook well enough to feed myself, and the food I make is good, if simple. I can do and have done basic home repairs on my own, and I know that I can use the tools in a shop safely. While I never got near the record for Braille speed, I did set the record for fastest Braille reader who had never known Braille as an adult--165 words per minute. Closer to 250 if I can predict the words as on a warm read or a Homerian epic or something. (How many times would I have to read "wine dark sea" before I began to read the phrase automatically?) I can say with certainty that I've since lost almost all of that speed because I have not had the opportunity to practice in three month stretches over the course of graduate school. But you know, I can still feel the dots, if more slowly now, and I know my contractions--I can get it back, any time I am ready. And then there are travel skills. I've got some of the best you'll find anywhere. Some blind people wield their canes with big, heavy-handed, clumsy movements. I use very light, highly controlled movements in a style that is uniquely my own, developed because the way taught by Brent and Eric hurt my hand at first. Eric Woods showed me how to attend to distant sounds and track information available from sometimes several blocks away. I had a natural talent for direction-tracking, and very sharp ears once I began learning what to listen for, but the rest was learned. Combined with problem-solving skills I learned years ago and a few basic tips, it's not really a boast that I'm one of the best travelers to come out of any training center. Just about everything I did is achievable by any blind person who really wants it badly enough. There's nothing really that special about me. It is a testament to the NFB that a guy who is pretty clever can go from virtually no skills to mastery level performance in just eight months. Most state-run centers would have told me 40 words per minute was all an adult Braille learner could do or that there were just some intersections that aren't safe to cross or that one thing or another just wasn't practical. At the CCB, the usual answer to the impractical thing was, "Okay. That's gonna be hard, but okay. How much are you willing to invest to make it happen?" My answer was whatever it took. I won't lie to you, it took a lot. But I put the effort in, and look what I got for it! I believe that what a person will get out of the Colorado Center for the Blind is a function of what they put in to it. The thing is, you'll always get more out than you put in. Hope that helps Sarah! I will be happy to answer any questions you have. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:17:55AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Hi all, > I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't > anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can > try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal > or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled > classes or is a drop-in type deal? > Thank you for your help. > Sarah _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From iamantonio at cox.net Sun Nov 16 06:53:04 2008 From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:53:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T History 101 for Antonio References: <73878E513E70436C9A46340415F39AAB@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: <930266316E4D4EE0AA930AD0F9927906@homeb5fa> Scarry funny! I found much truth and humor, and want to forward. Guess that makes me a... a... concervative... Ill... Thanks for that! Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: [nabs-l] O/T History 101 for Antonio > This one's for my good friend Antonio, but partake all ye who wish a > little > humor. It has nothing to do with blindness, and for that I apologize in > advance and promise not to post off-topic nonsense for the rest of the > year. > What follows is offensive, so if you're easily offended, read it anyway. > It's a slight continuation of the debate we had last month about the left > versus the right. Enjoy it, and I'll do my best to find some equally > amusing humor that takes up for the other side. Next year, of course, > because I did just promise to stop my off-topic messages. Seriously, I > hope > you find it sarcastically amusing. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > *History Simplified with Actual Material* > > > *History 101 (Crash course)* > * > For those that don't know about history ... Here is a condensed version: > > Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic > hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer > and > would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter. > > The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer > and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the > beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were > the > catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups: > > 1. Liberals, and > 2. Conservatives. > > Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of > agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, > so > while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be > invented, > they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed. > > Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night > while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as > the Conservative movement. > > Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off > the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the > sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal > movement. > > Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became > known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the > domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the > concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer > that > conservatives provided.* > > * > Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most > powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by > the > jackass. > > Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer > white > wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well > done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another > interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher > testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury > attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are > liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't > fair to make the pitcher also bat. > > Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud. They eat red meat and still > provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo > cowboys, > lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police > officers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline > pilots and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own > companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living. > > Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and > decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more > enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in > Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the > Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for > nothing. > > Here ends today's lesson in world history: > > It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily > respond to the above before forwarding it. > > A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth > of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true > believers and to more liberals just to tick them off.* > > * > **And there you have it. Let your next action reveal your true self**.* > > > > > WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, > ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1790 - Release Date: 11/15/2008 > 9:32 AM > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 07:12:46 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:12:46 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Sarah, Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear the dangers--including cars running those red lights? Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i do >start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >suddenly. > >Take care. > >Sarah "Alawami >The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. > >Thanks and have a wonderful day. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Beth >Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind > >Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell >phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's >putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what blind >people actually use. >Beth > >On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >> money needed for this project? >> >> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing >> the street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >> Thanks >> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >> already in their pockets - their cell phone. >> >> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation >> for the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >> wearing glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual >> impairment, many conditions - including visual noise, walking at night >> and irregular intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >> >> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >> >> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >> likely to >> >> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >> professor >> >> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent >> that the >> >> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >> >> The new technology utilizes features already available in many >> cellular >> >> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >> (GPS) >> >> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired >> pedestrians. >> >> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >> >> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >> >> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel >> while crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, >> nothing happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning >> activates alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides >> directions on how to get back within the safety zone. Should the >> walker somehow end up in the middle of the intersection, the system >> automatically would turn every light red, stopping traffic and >> averting a potential disaster. >> >> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >> when it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt >> them for a few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists >> a traffic victim." >> >> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >> >> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the >> country. >> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >> >> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre >> provide help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >> However, >> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >> at any given time, the control box knows each state. >> >> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet >> over power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power >> lines. >> >> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >> established dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials >> to commence in June. They are building prototypes supported by funds >> from the University Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher >> Education Research Council and their commercial partner, Campbell >> Company, who currently makes the accessible pedestrian signals that >> chirp and talk for the handicapped. >> >> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're >> using existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >> It's >> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can >> be immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the >> country." >> >> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >> involved, please let me know. >> >> Ken Kingery >> >> Science/Research Writer >> >> University of Idaho >> >> Office: 208-885-9156 >> >> Cell: 614-570-3942 >> >> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> __._,_.___ >> Messages in this topic < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>> | Start a new topic < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >> Messages < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>> | Files < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> | Photos < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>> | Links < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> | Database < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> | Polls < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> | Members < >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, >> send a blank email to: >> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >> MARKETPLACE >> ________________________________ >> >> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >> >< >> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >> Yahoo! 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Groups < >> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pd7b6pp/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323 >> 196/D=groups/S=1705189052:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=4g9FDkLaX9c-/ >> J=1226173318658236/A=5170416/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yaho >> o.com/specialKgroup> >> >> Learn how others >> >> are losing pounds. >> >> . >> >> __,_._,___ >> >> Quick Reply >> >> To: Sharona Silverman More Reply Options >> >> Send >> Save Draft >> Include quoted text with reply >> >> < Back to Inbox >> Archive >> Report Spam >> Delete >> More Actions... >> Go >> < Newer >> 6 of 114 >> Older > >> >> Search accurately with >> operators >> including from: to: subject:. >> You are currently using 85 MB (1%) of your 7261 MB >> >> Last account activity: 1 hour ago on this computer. >> Details >> >> Gmail view: >> standard | >> basic HTML >> Learn more >> >> (c)2008 Google - >> Terms - >> Gmail Blog - >> Google Home >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >> e%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 09:57:28 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 03:57:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch than say the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances where I'm scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself as just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to speak. I don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's your motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of sight. This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function of how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off you are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling now. Cheers, Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If you have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on that a long time ago. --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: From: Chris Westbrook Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > > If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > > I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > > Joseph > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >> >> ----- >> Corbb O'Connor >> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and as >> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently noticed >> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good one. It >> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as visually >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. These >> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not want to >> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... this >> group is for you too! >> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact that we >> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred and if >> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these new >> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the most >> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- "Attention >> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes some sense >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as visually >> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the terminology >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >> >> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to other >> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email subject line >> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced to the NABS >> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually Impaired >> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new blindness >> group of facebook! >> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant example. >> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that perhaps >> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and blur >> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as solid >> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >> >> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us debate >> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and what it >> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of importance? >> >> Thoughtfully yours, >> >> Janice >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> Karen and all, >>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to nonmembers. >>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the philosophy of the >>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word "Blind" is sometimes a >>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of them. I >>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as blind. I felt >>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually impaired". The acceptance >>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes through >>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role models, >>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is simply >>> a >>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can promote NFB >>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our philosophy. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Terri Rupp, President >>> National Association of Blind Students >>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From jraichle at carthage.edu Sun Nov 16 10:50:41 2008 From: jraichle at carthage.edu (Jessica R) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:50:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi: I am trying to get to one of the training centers. I was wondering if anyone who is or has attended one of them can tell us why you made the choice you did. Thank you. From westbchris at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 13:11:49 2008 From: westbchris at gmail.com (Chris Westbrook) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:11:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <20081116040224.EWUV19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <3977647DF03E4EFABD564EF66E87898E@chrisw> I can't believe people are willing to let people assume they are totally blind just to avoid explaining what they can and can't see. Does that mean I should call myself deaf and force people to use sign language by default just so I don't have to explain what I can and can't hear? Of course I don't know sign language but the analogy is similar. Why are people that uncomfortable about talking about their vision loss? ----- Original Message ----- From: "hannah" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Sometimes it's easier for people who are not totally blind to call themselves blind or te say they are blind. Especially when explaining something to someone because when you say you're blind, then they'll get the fact that you are blind, but when you say visually impaired, they might question you about your vission and one thing leads to another. It's not a bad thing when they question you, but sometimes it can be umcomfortable because people would either assume that you can see more than you really could or less than you could. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Harry Hogue To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If you have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on that a long time ago. > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >From: Chris Westbrook Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain >things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> Joseph >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. >Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know >who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out >there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> To: "NABS list serve" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchris%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 13:16:02 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 05:16:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081116131602.GD6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Jessica, Colorado versus the other two or NFB center versus state operated? The choice of Colorado was two-fold: First, it is closer than either of the other two centers. Second, it exists in the greater Denver metro area. I'm not much for the country life, and I don't really have much issue getting around a small town, aside from issues of transit and the desire to go to a larger city. The choice of an NFB center was easy. I looked at results, nothing more. There are state centers that get results like ours, but NFB centers are the standard by which the results of other centers are compared. There may be other ways--and possibly even better ways--to get the results we do in our centers, but what we do in our centers has been shown to work time and again, even if they're a bit hard on students. If you seriously put the effort in to it, you will have both the skills and the confidence to use them effectively. The thing is, when someone figures out how to do it better, get the same or better results, and do it without as much strain on the students, I know for a fact that our centers will adopt new best practices. I know this because our centers' only agenda is the betterment of each student going through the program by showing them what's possible and giving them a set of proven tools to help them get there. A state center has other considerations to consider, and their missions, philosophies, goals, and agendas change with whoever has been put in charge of them, and whatever their operating budget is. The best of them only manage to achieve par with ours. That makes the safe bet the NFB center, because there you know what you're getting: A key to your future, whatever you decide that future is going to be. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:50:41AM -0600, Jessica R wrote: > Hi: > I am trying to get to one of the training centers. I was wondering > if anyone who is or has attended one of them can tell us why you made the > choice you did. Thank you. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From blindhistory at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 13:27:47 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:27:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I usually call myself visually impaired or legally blind because it is alot easier to explain my vision to someone. When I say I am blind people automatically assume I can't see anything and then get really confused when I can read large print. I also think the NFB has taken this terminology way to far. I am fine with thinking myself as blind. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Dezman Jackson wrote: > I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in general, > I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch than say the phrase > "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances where I'm scheduling a > job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. Although I am totally > blind and have no problem thinking of myself as just simply blind, I > sometimes struggle with saying such things as visually impaired in such > situations to lighten the blow so to speak. I don't particularly have a > problem with different phrases, but it's your motivation behind the phrasing > and for me it was to feed into the public's perception of what James Omvig > calls the hierarchy of sight. This is basically the belief that your success > in life is a function of how much vision you have, the more vision you have, > the better off you are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of > course, this concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop > babbling now. > > Cheers, > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally > blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind > would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are visually > impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If you have no vision > you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some > light perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. But at > the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call it, > so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have trouble > seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, read > braille, etc). What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. > Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as > totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing > impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can take > anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit too > far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people need--if > someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's wrong > with calling them visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does > not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people think. > And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on that a long time > ago. > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > > From: Chris Westbrook > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > > Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired > you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with > another > disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing > impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness > generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to > speak, > etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I > do > not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that > certain > things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings > and > socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call > myself > hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to > call > themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you > are > visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find > myself > struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >> > philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >> > offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but > am > otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>> >> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. > Just as > we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading > the > subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of > you > -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual > vision. > Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even > know > who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out > there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > blindness. > >> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >>> >> as > >> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>> >> noticed > >> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>> >> one. It > >> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>> >> visually > >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >>> >> These > >> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>> >> want to > >> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >>> >> this > >> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >>> >> that we > >> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that >>> >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > >> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >>> >> and if > >> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >>> >> new > >> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >>> >> most > >> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>> >> "Attention > >> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>> >> some sense > >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>> >> visually > >> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>> >> terminology > >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >>> >> other > >> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>> >> subject line > >> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>> >> to the NABS > >> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>> >> Impaired > >> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>> >> blindness > >> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >>> >> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. > I > >> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>> >> example. > >> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >>> >> perhaps > >> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >>> >> blur > >> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >>> >> solid > >> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >>> >> debate > >> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>> >> what it > >> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>> >> importance? > >> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> >> > >> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>> >>> nonmembers. > >> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>> >>> philosophy of the > >> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>>> >>> "Blind" is sometimes a > >> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>>> >>> them. I > >> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>>> >>> blind. I felt > >> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>> >>> impaired". The acceptance > >> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>>> >>> through > >> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>>> >>> models, > >> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >>>> >>> simply > >> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>>> >>> promote NFB > >> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>> >>> philosophy. > >> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From blindhistory at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 13:29:31 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:29:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though if you can't see or hear the cars coming. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Sarah, > > Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk > your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear > the dangers--including cars running those red lights? > > Joseph > > > On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i >> do >> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >> suddenly. >> >> Take care. >> >> Sarah "Alawami >> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >> >> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >> >> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell >> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's >> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what blind >> people actually use. >> Beth >> >> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>> money needed for this project? >>> >>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing the >>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>> Thanks >>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool already in >>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>> >>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for >>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while wearing >>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, many >>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>> >>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>> >>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more likely >>> to >>> >>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>> professor >>> >>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that >>> the >>> >>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>> >>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular >>> >>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>> (GPS) >>> >>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. >>> >>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>> >>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>> >>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel while >>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on how >>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in the >>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every light >>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>> >>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns when >>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them for a >>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>> victim." >>> >>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>> >>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. >>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>> >>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre provide >>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>> However, >>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so at >>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>> >>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet over >>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>> >>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have established >>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in >>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the University >>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research Council >>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the >>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>> >>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using >>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>> It's >>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be >>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>> >>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people involved, >>> please let me know. >>> >>> Ken Kingery >>> >>> Science/Research Writer >>> >>> University of Idaho >>> >>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>> >>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>> >>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> __._,_.___ >>> Messages in this topic < >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>> >>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>> >>>> | Start a new topic < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>> Messages < >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>> >>>> | Files < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> >>>> | Photos < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>> >>>> | Links < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> >>>> | Database < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> >>>> | Polls < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>> >>>> | Members < >>>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a >>> blank email to: >>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>> MARKETPLACE >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >< >>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>> Yahoo! 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Groups < >>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pd7b6pp/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323 >>> 196/D=groups/S=1705189052:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=4g9FDkLaX9c-/ >>> J=1226173318658236/A=5170416/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yaho >>> o.com/specialKgroup> >>> >>> Learn how others >>> >>> are losing pounds. >>> >>> . >>> >>> __,_._,___ >>> >>> Quick Reply >>> >>> To: Sharona Silverman More Reply Options >>> >>> Send >>> Save Draft >>> Include quoted text with reply >>> >>> < Back to Inbox >>> Archive >>> Report Spam >>> Delete >>> More Actions... >>> Go >>> < Newer >>> 6 of 114 >>> Older > >>> >>> Search accurately with >>> operators >>> including from: to: subject:. >>> You are currently using 85 MB (1%) of your 7261 MB >>> >>> Last account activity: 1 hour ago on this computer. >>> Details >>> >>> Gmail view: >>> standard | >>> basic HTML >>> Learn more >>> >>> (c)2008 Google - >>> Terms - >>> Gmail Blog - >>> Google Home >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Nov 16 14:32:32 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:32:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081116143108.ISCQ3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Sometimes it's very hard for some people to talk about their vission because they weren't used to talking about it throughout childhood or they were brought up in a different culture. In certain cultures a lot of times people aren't as open, so when they come to the united states, it's very hard to adjest because it's one of those things that adjests slowly; it's sort of like affcetion because a lot of the cultures aren't as affectionate as we are. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris Westbrook" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:11:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I can't believe people are willing to let people assume they are totally >blind just to avoid explaining what they can and can't see. Does that mean >I should call myself deaf and force people to use sign language by default >just so I don't have to explain what I can and can't hear? Of course I >don't know sign language but the analogy is similar. Why are people that >uncomfortable about talking about their vision loss? >----- Original Message ----- >From: "hannah" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:03 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >Sometimes it's easier for people who are not totally blind to >call themselves blind or te say they are blind. Especially when >explaining something to someone because when you say you're >blind, then they'll get the fact that you are blind, but when you >say visually impaired, they might question you about your vission >and one thing leads to another. It's not a bad thing when they >question you, but sometimes it can be umcomfortable because >people would either assume that you can see more than you really >could or less than you could. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Harry Hogue >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not >completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have >some vision you are visually impaired. There is nothing negative >about that at all. If you have no vision you are totally blind. >Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some light >perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. >But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you >choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need >to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What >other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as >you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them >as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are >hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but >> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You >can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps >taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when >it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, >but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them >visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does not >automatically make them blind, although this is what most people >think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on >that a long time ago. >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>From: Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an >example with another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I >said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >inability to speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you >no that I do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also >accept that certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >call myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >individual to call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >blind you are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more >I find myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> Joseph >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >around. Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and >others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree >with all of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before >they even know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy >on blindness. >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board and >>as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently >>noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not >>want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to >be the >>most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >>terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer to >>other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >>Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature >recently, also. I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant >>example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not as >>solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among us >>debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and >>what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >is >>simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >cious%40suddenlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchri s%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 14:47:59 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:47:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c947fa$52f71390$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I am fine with saying I am blind even tho I can only see light andd shadows. If people ask me what I can see if anything at all I just tell them. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lora and Myrtle" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I usually call myself visually impaired or legally blind because it is alot > easier to explain my vision to someone. When I say I am blind people > automatically assume I can't see anything and then get really confused > when > I can read large print. I also think the NFB has taken this terminology > way > to far. I am fine with thinking myself as blind. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Dezman Jackson > wrote: > >> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >> general, >> I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch than say the >> phrase >> "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances where I'm scheduling >> a >> job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. Although I am >> totally >> blind and have no problem thinking of myself as just simply blind, I >> sometimes struggle with saying such things as visually impaired in such >> situations to lighten the blow so to speak. I don't particularly have a >> problem with different phrases, but it's your motivation behind the >> phrasing >> and for me it was to feed into the public's perception of what James >> Omvig >> calls the hierarchy of sight. This is basically the belief that your >> success >> in life is a function of how much vision you have, the more vision you >> have, >> the better off you are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. >> Of >> course, this concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop >> babbling now. >> >> Cheers, >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally >> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind >> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >> visually >> impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If you have no >> vision >> you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have >> some >> light perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. But >> at >> the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you choose to call >> it, >> so long as you understand and accept within yourself that you have >> trouble >> seeing, and this is what you need to do alternatively (use a long cane, >> read >> braille, etc). What other people choose to call it shouldn't matter >> either. >> Just as you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them >> as >> totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing >> impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but >> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can take >> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit >> too >> far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people >> need--if >> someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, what's >> wrong >> with calling them visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does >> not automatically make them blind, although this is what most people >> think. >> And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on that a long time >> ago. >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >> From: Chris Westbrook >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired >> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >> another >> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >> hearing >> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to >> speak, >> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that >> I >> do >> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >> certain >> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings >> and >> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >> myself >> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to >> call >> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >> you >> are >> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find >> myself >> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>> >> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>> >> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but >> am >> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>>> >>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >> Just as >> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading >> the >> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of >> you >> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >> vision. >> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even >> know >> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >> out >> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >> blindness. >> >>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and >>>> >>> as >> >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>>> >>> noticed >> >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>>> >>> one. It >> >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>>> >>> visually >> >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >>>> >>> These >> >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>>> >>> want to >> >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >>>> >>> this >> >>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >>>> >>> that we >> >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that >>>> >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >>>> >>> and if >> >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >>>> >>> new >> >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >>>> >>> most >> >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>> >>> "Attention >> >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>>> >>> some sense >> >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>>> >>> visually >> >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>>> >>> terminology >> >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to >>>> >>> other >> >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>>> >>> subject line >> >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>>> >>> to the NABS >> >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>>> >>> Impaired >> >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>>> >>> blindness >> >>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >>>> >>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>> visually >> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >> also. >> I >> >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>>> >>> example. >> >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >>>> >>> perhaps >> >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >>>> >>> blur >> >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >>>> >>> solid >> >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us >>>> >>> debate >> >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>>> >>> what it >> >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>>> >>> importance? >> >>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>> >>> >> >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>>> >>>> nonmembers. >> >>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>>> >>>> philosophy of the >> >>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>>>> >>>> "Blind" is sometimes a >> >>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>>>> >>>> them. I >> >>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>>>> >>>> blind. I felt >> >>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>>> >>>> impaired". The acceptance >> >>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>>>> >>>> through >> >>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>>>> >>>> models, >> >>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is >>>>> >>>> simply >> >>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>>>> >>>> promote NFB >> >>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>>> >>>> philosophy. >> >>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 15:29:30 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:29:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811160729l76e98b1ah4338a48a6750c65c@mail.gmail.com> I see the point. I'd rather see the point than not see the point. lol But here's the deal: I'd be willing to use the technology if my hearing and seeing were going pretty bad. Beth On 11/16/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: > It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the > technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though if > you can't see or hear the cars coming. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter > wrote: > >> Sarah, >> >> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear >> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i >>> do >>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>> suddenly. >>> >>> Take care. >>> >>> Sarah "Alawami >>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>> >>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>> >>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell >>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's >>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what >>> blind >>> people actually use. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>> money needed for this project? >>>> >>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing the >>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>> Thanks >>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >>>> already in >>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>> >>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for >>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >>>> wearing >>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, >>>> many >>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>> >>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>> >>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >>>> likely >>>> to >>>> >>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>> professor >>>> >>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that >>>> the >>>> >>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>> >>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular >>>> >>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>> (GPS) >>>> >>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. >>>> >>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>> >>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>> >>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel while >>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on >>>> how >>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in >>>> the >>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every >>>> light >>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>> >>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >>>> when >>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them >>>> for a >>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>> victim." >>>> >>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>> >>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. >>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>> >>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre provide >>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>> However, >>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >>>> at >>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>> >>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet over >>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>> >>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >>>> established >>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in >>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the >>>> University >>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research >>>> Council >>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the >>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>> >>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using >>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>> It's >>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be >>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>> >>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >>>> involved, >>>> please let me know. >>>> >>>> Ken Kingery >>>> >>>> Science/Research Writer >>>> >>>> University of Idaho >>>> >>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>> >>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>> >>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic < >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>> >>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>> >>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>> Messages < >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>> >>>>> | Files < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Photos < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>> >>>>> | Links < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Database < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Polls < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Members < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send >>>> a >>>> blank email to: >>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>> MARKETPLACE >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >>>> >< >>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>> Yahoo! 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For myself I regard anyone who uses alternative techniques as blind. It has more to do with how you live your life and accomplish things then literal eyesight. Dave At 10:03 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >Sometimes it's easier for people who are not totally blind to call >themselves blind or te say they are blind. Especially when >explaining something to someone because when you say you're blind, >then they'll get the fact that you are blind, but when you say >visually impaired, they might question you about your vission and >one thing leads to another. It's not a bad thing when they question >you, but sometimes it can be umcomfortable because people would >either assume that you can see more than you really could or less >than you could. > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Harry Hogue >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not >completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have >some vision you are visually impaired. There is nothing negative >about that at all. If you have no vision you are totally >blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some light >perception? If you can't read large print, you are still >blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what >you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you >pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them as >totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are hearing >impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but >>they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You >can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken >this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes >to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still >read large print, what's wrong with calling them visually >impaired? Just because someone has a cane does not automatically >make them blind, although this is what most people think. And here >again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on that a long time ago. >> >> > > >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: > >>From: Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an >example with another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I >said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >inability to speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you >no that I do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also >accept that certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >call myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >individual to call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >blind you are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more >I find myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >>>I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >>>If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >>>I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > >>>Joseph > >>>On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >around. Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and >others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree >with all of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before >they even know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy >on blindness. > >>>>----- >>>>Corbb O'Connor >>>>studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > >>>>On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > >>>>Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >>>>Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board and >>as >>>>nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently >>noticed >>>>something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>>might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>>impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>>people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not >>want to >>>>identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>>group is for you too! >>>>Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>>are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >>the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to be >>>>recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >>>>However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>>we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>>individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>>facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to >be the >>most >>>>recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>>blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>>according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>>impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >>terminology >>>>visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? > >>>>Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer to >>other >>>>Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>>:"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>to the NABS >>>>list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >>Impaired >>>>Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>>group of facebook! >>>>? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature >recently, also. I >>>>am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant >>example. >>>>Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>>trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>>the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>>members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not as >>solid >>>>, and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? > >>>>I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among us >>debate >>>>this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our >>>>philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and >>what it >>>>stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? > >>>>Thoughtfully yours, > >>>>Janice >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>>>To: "NABS list serve" >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >>>>>Karen and all, >>>>>The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>>Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>>federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>>blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>them. I >>>>>didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>>ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>>of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>through >>>>>differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>models, >>>>>and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >is >>simply >>>>>a >>>>>characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>>activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. > >>>>>Yours, >>>>>Terri Rupp, President >>>>>National Association of Blind Students > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >cious%40suddenlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1790 - Release Date: >11/15/2008 9:32 AM From dandrews at visi.com Sun Nov 16 17:34:10 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:34:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Joseph: I understand what you are saying about politically correct o language. It can be taken to far. On the other hand, some change in language is the first step in bringing about change. For example, if we still used the N word, African-Americans wouldn't have probably achieved much civil rights wise. People stopped using the word even though some of them still probably thought of blacks in terms of the N word and all it applies. However, for most of us, eventually our actions and and thoughts start to follow our words. Dave At 11:22 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >Harry, I object to the concept of political >correctness outright. It forces people to say >things they do not mean and mean things they do >not say. Morally, that seems wrong to me. I >endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not >everyone likes that. And you know what? That's >fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >you've got to be willing to accept >responsibility for being wrong now and then, or >you'd best not say anything. Too often, >politically correct speech is used as an excuse >to have everything be so nebulous that anything >you say can be interpreted any number of ways, >none of which you can be held responsible >for. Down that road lies the girlie-men from >Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* Joseph On >Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry >Hogue wrote: >Here's an interesting >thought. We get all bent out of shape about >the word "visually impaired," or any other kind >of "politically correct "language, and insist >that we call things the way they are, but yet we >also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative." I understand and agree with >that one, because "substitute techniques" does >sound inferior, but I just think it's >interesting how strict we are on our >termonology. > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris >Westbrook wrote: > >From: >Chris Westbrook >Subject: >Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: >"National Association of Blind Students mailing >list" >Date: Saturday, >November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >Also, I don't >think that just because you call yourself >visually impaired >you are necessarily denying >your blindness. I will use an example with >another >disability from my own life. I am >hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to >call myself deaf, because deafness >generally >implies profound hearing loss, sign language, >the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you >have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two >hearing aids. I also accept that >certain >things are much harder if not >impossible for me, such as street crossings >and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is >it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing >impaired when it is not OK for a visually >impaired individual to call >themselves visually >impaired? after all, even if you are totally >blind you are >visually impaired. The more I >think about these things, the more I find >myself >struggling with some of the stricter >points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original >Message ----- From: "T. Joseph >Carter" > >To: >"National Association of Blind Students mailing >list" > >Sent: Saturday, >November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are >all getting too hung up on empty words. The >NFB >philosophy is about actions and >attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean >by it that I am helpless, I will >take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean >that I just can't see much but am >otherwise >like anyone else, I'll accept your words as >respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the >difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> >Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM >+0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write >the subject line, but I am assuming that was >a >blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was >meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want >to attract new members (as has been said by me >and others), we >wouldn't want to push people >toward the delete button after only reading >the >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's >marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the >Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. >Let's not push people away >from our great organization before they even >know >who we are and why we use the words we do. >I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or >our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >out >there who don't see as well as their peers >(seniors, students, >and...well...everybody >else) to show them our positive philosophy on >blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> >studying at the National University of Ireland, >Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at >10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, >Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must >say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very >interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> >something like this also. I think that Terri's >point can be a good >one. It >>> might be >important for the Federation to use terminology >such as >visually >>> impaired or low vision, to >try to attract a larger facet of >people. >These >>> people might be uncomfortable >with their blindness, they might not >want >to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you >visually impaired person... >this >>> group is >for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the >door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them >about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We >can then wow them into believing that > the >visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if >you >>> are legally blind, the key word is >blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as >a legally visually impaired person, are >they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain >instances where the lines get blurred >and >if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an >organization to try to get these >new >>> >individuals into our door. For example, not to >pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I >will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some >debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> >blind and visually impaired high school >students!" This makes >some sense >>> according >to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify as >visually >>> impaired to come to >our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >terminology >>> visually impaired among >ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low >vision, visually impaired, to refer >to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I >an talking about is the email >subject line >>> >:"for the sake of ne, in which the group was >actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the >official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. >why not just use something like, >"new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I >am definitely not trying to point fingers at any >specific group or >person... I am really >curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial >, in our literature recently, also. I >>> am >merely using the facebook post as the most >recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new >trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has >caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> >the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical >boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, >thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I >first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I >really am confused and would love to hear the >philosophers among us >debate >>> this >observation. What are the effects of these >happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to >tighten our concepts about blindness and >what >it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is >inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> >>> >Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- >Original Message ----- From: "Terri >Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list >serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, >November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] >Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and >all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to >try to reach out to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook >is just one of them. Although as you said, >the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based >on the word "Blind", that word >"Blind" >is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those >people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> >blindness. It was only until a few years ago >that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to >associate with anything that labeled me >as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and >called myself "visually >impaired". The >acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving >process that each person goes >through >>>> >differently. What we have to do is serve as >positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that >being blind is no different than being >short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> >characteristic. Once we attract them to these >groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, >scholarships, etc and reel them in with >our >philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri >Rupp, President >>>> National Association of >Blind >Students >>>> >__________________________________ >_____________ >nabs-l mailing >list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/ma >ilman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To >unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/na >bs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: >8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1790 - Release Date: 11/15/2008 9:32 AM From westbchris at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 17:42:27 2008 From: westbchris at gmail.com (Chris Westbrook) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:42:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com><20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811160729l76e98b1ah4338a48a6750c65c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C06663049F84A6A9AB076C69600A87C@chrisw> Beth, why? If your hearing and sight are going bad, do you really want ot trust your life to technology? I'd rather use paratransit and/or friends more to get around and put up with the inconvenience. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >I see the point. I'd rather see the point than not see the point. lol > But here's the deal: I'd be willing to use the technology if my > hearing and seeing were going pretty bad. > Beth > > On 11/16/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >> It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the >> technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though >> if >> you can't see or hear the cars coming. >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter >> >> wrote: >> >>> Sarah, >>> >>> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >>> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially >>> hear >>> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if >>>> i >>>> do >>>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>>> suddenly. >>>> >>>> Take care. >>>> >>>> Sarah "Alawami >>>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>>> >>>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>>> >>>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible >>>> cell >>>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software >>>> he's >>>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what >>>> blind >>>> people actually use. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>>> money needed for this project? >>>>> >>>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing >>>>> the >>>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >>>>> already in >>>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>>> >>>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation >>>>> for >>>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >>>>> wearing >>>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, >>>>> many >>>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>>> >>>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>>> >>>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >>>>> likely >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>>> professor >>>>> >>>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent >>>>> that >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>>> >>>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many >>>>> cellular >>>>> >>>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>>> (GPS) >>>>> >>>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired >>>>> pedestrians. >>>>> >>>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>>> >>>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>>> >>>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel >>>>> while >>>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions >>>>> on >>>>> how >>>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every >>>>> light >>>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>>> >>>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >>>>> when >>>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them >>>>> for a >>>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>>> victim." >>>>> >>>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>>> >>>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the >>>>> country. >>>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>>> >>>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre >>>>> provide >>>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>>> However, >>>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >>>>> at >>>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>>> >>>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet >>>>> over >>>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>>> >>>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >>>>> established >>>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence >>>>> in >>>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the >>>>> University >>>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research >>>>> Council >>>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes >>>>> the >>>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>>> >>>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're >>>>> using >>>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>>> It's >>>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can >>>>> be >>>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>>> >>>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >>>>> involved, >>>>> please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Ken Kingery >>>>> >>>>> Science/Research Writer >>>>> >>>>> University of Idaho >>>>> >>>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>>> >>>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>>> >>>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic < >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>>> >>>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>>> >>>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>>> Messages < >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>> >>>>>> | Files < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Photos < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>> >>>>>> | Links < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Database < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Polls < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Members < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, >>>>> send >>>>> a >>>>> blank email to: >>>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >>>>> >< >>>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>>> Yahoo! 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To me you are saying it is better being visually impaired then totally blind. You are obviously uncomfortable with someone thinking someone is totally blind when they might not be. I would say that it is not better being blind or visually impaired. They both are conditions with good and bad and we move forward from there. I used to have some vision and considered myself lucky and tended to de vide the world into "us" and "Them." then I lost the rest of my vision and became a "them" and found out there wasn't that much of a difference. Dave >I can't believe people are willing to let people assume they are >totally blind just to avoid explaining what they can and can't >see. Does that mean I should call myself deaf and force people to >use sign language by default just so I don't have to explain what I >can and can't hear? Of course I don't know sign language but the >analogy is similar. Why are people that uncomfortable about talking >about their vision loss? >----- Original Message ----- From: "hannah" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:03 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >Sometimes it's easier for people who are not totally blind to >call themselves blind or te say they are blind. Especially when >explaining something to someone because when you say you're >blind, then they'll get the fact that you are blind, but when you >say visually impaired, they might question you about your vission >and one thing leads to another. It's not a bad thing when they >question you, but sometimes it can be umcomfortable because >people would either assume that you can see more than you really >could or less than you could. > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Harry Hogue >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:25:25 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not >completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have >some vision you are visually impaired. There is nothing negative >about that at all. If you have no vision you are totally blind. >Nothing wrong with that either. And if you have some light >perception? If you can't read large print, you are still blind. >But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what you >choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need >to do alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What >other people choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as >you pointed out, when someone says they are deaf, I think of them >as totally without the ability to hear; when they say they are >hearing impaired, I say, "well they can hear some but >>they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You >can take anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps >taken this a bit too far--the distinction needs to be made when >it comes to what people need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, >but can still read large print, what's wrong with calling them >visually impaired? Just because someone has a cane does not >automatically make them blind, although this is what most people >think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up on >that a long time ago. >> > > >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: > >>From: Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an >example with another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I >said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >inability to speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you >no that I do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also >accept that certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >call myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >individual to call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >blind you are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more >I find myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >>>I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >>>If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >>>I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > >>>Joseph > >>>On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >around. Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and >others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree >with all of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >residual vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before >they even know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy >on blindness. > >>>>----- >>>>Corbb O'Connor >>>>studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > >>>>On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > >>>>Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >>>>Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board and >>as >>>>nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently >>noticed >>>>something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>>might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>>impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>>people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not >>want to >>>>identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>>group is for you too! >>>>Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>>are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >>the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to be >>>>recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >>>>However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>>we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>>individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>>facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to >be the >>most >>>>recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>>blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>>according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>>impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >>terminology >>>>visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? > >>>>Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer to >>other >>>>Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>>:"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>to the NABS >>>>list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >>Impaired >>>>Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>>group of facebook! >>>>? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature >recently, also. I >>>>am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant >>example. >>>>Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>>trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>>the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>>members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not as >>solid >>>>, and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? > >>>>I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among us >>debate >>>>this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our >>>>philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and >>what it >>>>stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? > >>>>Thoughtfully yours, > >>>>Janice >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>>>To: "NABS list serve" >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >>>>>Karen and all, >>>>>The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>>Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>>federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>>blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>them. I >>>>>didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>>ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>>of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>through >>>>>differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>models, >>>>>and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >is >>simply >>>>>a >>>>>characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>>activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. > >>>>>Yours, >>>>>Terri Rupp, President >>>>>National Association of Blind Students > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >cious%40suddenlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchris%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1791 - Release Date: >11/15/2008 6:57 PM From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 18:51:17 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:51:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: <8C06663049F84A6A9AB076C69600A87C@chrisw> References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811160729l76e98b1ah4338a48a6750c65c@mail.gmail.com> <8C06663049F84A6A9AB076C69600A87C@chrisw> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811161051j8da027dx51973631891dcf59@mail.gmail.com> Friends? Good idea, but if I had no hearing and no sght, I don't know what I'd do. I have no clue how Helen Keller would've gotten around without Annie Sllivan. lol Beth On 11/16/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > Beth, why? If your hearing and sight are going bad, do you really want ot > trust your life to technology? I'd rather use paratransit and/or friends > more to get around and put up with the inconvenience. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind > > >>I see the point. I'd rather see the point than not see the point. lol >> But here's the deal: I'd be willing to use the technology if my >> hearing and seeing were going pretty bad. >> Beth >> >> On 11/16/08, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >>> It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the >>> technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though >>> >>> if >>> you can't see or hear the cars coming. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sarah, >>>> >>>> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >>>> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially >>>> hear >>>> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>>>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if >>>>> i >>>>> do >>>>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>>>> suddenly. >>>>> >>>>> Take care. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah "Alawami >>>>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>>>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Beth >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>>>> >>>>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible >>>>> cell >>>>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software >>>>> he's >>>>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what >>>>> blind >>>>> people actually use. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>>>> money needed for this project? >>>>>> >>>>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing >>>>>> the >>>>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >>>>>> already in >>>>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>>>> >>>>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation >>>>>> for >>>>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >>>>>> wearing >>>>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, >>>>>> many >>>>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >>>>>> likely >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>>>> professor >>>>>> >>>>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent >>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>>>> >>>>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many >>>>>> cellular >>>>>> >>>>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>>>> (GPS) >>>>>> >>>>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired >>>>>> pedestrians. >>>>>> >>>>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>>>> >>>>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel >>>>>> while >>>>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions >>>>>> on >>>>>> how >>>>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every >>>>>> light >>>>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>>>> >>>>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >>>>>> when >>>>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them >>>>>> for a >>>>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>>>> victim." >>>>>> >>>>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>>>> >>>>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the >>>>>> country. >>>>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre >>>>>> provide >>>>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>>>> However, >>>>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >>>>>> at >>>>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet >>>>>> over >>>>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>>>> >>>>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >>>>>> established >>>>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence >>>>>> in >>>>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the >>>>>> University >>>>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research >>>>>> Council >>>>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes >>>>>> the >>>>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>>>> >>>>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're >>>>>> using >>>>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>>>> It's >>>>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can >>>>>> be >>>>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>>>> >>>>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >>>>>> involved, >>>>>> please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Kingery >>>>>> >>>>>> Science/Research Writer >>>>>> >>>>>> University of Idaho >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>>>> >>>>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>>>> >>>>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>>>> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic < >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>>>> Messages < >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Files < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Photos < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Links < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Database < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Polls < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Members < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, >>>>>> send >>>>>> a >>>>>> blank email to: >>>>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >>>>>> >< >>>>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>>>> Yahoo! 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Congrats and good luck. I am also a runner, so if you ever want to talk off list. jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays >I agree with you, J. J. Beth, I know this can be frustrating, but try >not to let it get you down. As far as what you said about your confidence >level, everyone on this list has differing skills and levels of >confidence. Think of this as a challenge. I'm running a marathon, 26.2 >miles, this February. I need lots of practice to train for this. I admit, >this training is difficult, especi when I start running 15 to 20 miles a >day. It's challenging, but I never let it frustrate me. Just think of >acquiring this skillz a challenge and I know you will succeed. We have a >saying in our family to overcome challenges. When I first started running, >I only ran about 10 steps and then gave up. My father came up to me and >asked why I gave up. I said because this running stuff was hard! He told >me, well, if it was easy, everyone would do it. > Take care, and I know you can do this! > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:27:25 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > >>Beth, >>Please don't worry about how confident you look compared to other > students. >>We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, and together we can > work to >>make everyone stronger. Many ideas and viewpoints will be > offered on this >>list and elsewhere, but it's ultimately your decision as to which > skills and >>techniques you wish to try. Try not to get frustrated, and take > this >>situation as a challenge you can overcome, even if it takes a few > months. >>Good luck, I know you can do it. > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Beth" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >>> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this > list >>> ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't > have >>> trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice > this >>> skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to > get to >>> without miimal assistance. This is just hard. >>> Beth > >>> On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >>>> Beth, > >>>> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, > then one >>>> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they > first open >>>> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to > do some >>>> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another > option is >>>> going >>>> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on > the scene >>>> as >>>> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester > comes, >>>> you'll >>>> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your > new found >>>> orientation to the lay out. > >>>> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR > to come a >>>> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting > you to the >>>> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better >>>> understanding >>>> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with > each >>>> passing >>>> time. > >>>> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at > various >>>> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice > holding it >>>> at >>>> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above > the hip >>>> while >>>> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away > from >>>> your >>>> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to > carry the >>>> tray >>>> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, > and >>>> middle >>>> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their > body and >>>> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. > BTW, the >>>> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at > the side >>>> of >>>> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to > you. Then as >>>> my >>>> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the > apartment >>>> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an > empty >>>> plate, >>>> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the > tray more >>>> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food > setting >>>> while >>>> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like > this in the >>>> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then > practicing >>>> for >>>> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people > around. Maybe >>>> you >>>> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in > your dorm >>>> room >>>> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break. > >>>> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of > your >>>> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able > to fuse >>>> these techniques together and conquer this situation with > confidence and >>>> ease in no time. Hope this helps. > >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> Yolanda >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > > >>>>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, > so I've >>>>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so > much >>>>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the > line >>>>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You > know what >>>>> I mean? >>>>> Beth > >>>>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray > with >>>>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and > wrapping >>>>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one. > >>>>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your >>>>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. > either >>>>>> under the plate or in your pocket. > >>>>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate > and >>>>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray. > >>>>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be >>>>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people > around >>>>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is > this the >>>>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?" > >>>>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go > into a >>>>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen > for >>>>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV > or >>>>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings > as >>>>>> you move through the store. > >>>>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've >>>>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or > restaurant >>>>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that >>>>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't > think I'm >>>>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long > run, >>>>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and > be able >>>>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on > the way >>>>>> out. > >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green wrote: >>>>>>> Carrie, >>>>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us. >>>>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school. >>>>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility > which >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> got every three to four months. >>>>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level. >>>>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight > tremors in >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> hands. >>>>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got > to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> colorado >>>>>>> center. >>>>>>> I knew how to do it. >>>>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as > well. >>>>>>> Lol! > > >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Melissa R. Green >>>>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM >>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays > >>>>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also > hold >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if > things >>>>>>> start >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free > for the >>>>>>> cane. >>>>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not > that >>>>>>> long >>>>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers. > > > >>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 >>>>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590 >>>>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends > >>>>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing > level. I >>>>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last. >>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. > At >>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free. > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > >>>>>>>> Albert, >>>>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can > recall; >>>>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should > not >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> enjoy > >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is > you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said > >>>>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to >>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which > is >>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I > don't >>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one > hand >>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we > don't; >>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such." > >>>>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think >>>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties > if >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> what you want to do. >>>>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did > go to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> play >>>>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get > tired of >>>>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can > easily >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or > food >>>>>>> court. >>>>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone. >>>>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as > basketball or >>>>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise > it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is >>>>>>>> happening >>>>>>> then. > >>>>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if > Beth or >>>>>>> anyone > >>>>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there > personality >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would > like >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but > they're >>>>>>>> busy >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends. >>>>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really > want. > >>>>>>>> Ashley > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > > >>>>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun > to >>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football > baseball >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>> ice > >>>>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the > stadium >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> you were alone. Albert > > >>>>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > >>>>>>>>>> Beth, > >>>>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone. >>>>>>>>>> Unless >>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school > is >>>>>>>>>> weird >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should > go to >>>>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are > not >>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to > restaurants >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. > You >>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I >>>>>>>>>> encountered > >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston. >>>>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone. > >>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >>>>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with >>>>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: > going >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one >>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we >>>>>>>>>>> don't; >>>>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an >>>>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of > friends >>>>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. > I >>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go >>>>>>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in > a >>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine, >>>>>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>>>>> golf! >>>>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd >>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone > else! > >>>>>>>>>>>> Serena > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, > either. >>>>>>>>>>>> Een >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people > I >>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> quiet >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> (like >>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a >>>>>>>>>>>> nerd >>>>>>>>>>>> lol--and >>>>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to > the >>>>>>>>>>>> Spanish >>>>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted >>>>>>>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> feelings. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the > real >>>>>>>>>>>> thing, >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> sports >>>>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular >>>>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> say--but >>>>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done > it >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally > blind >>>>>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> adapted >>>>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much >>>>>>>>>>>> about, >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social >>>>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts? > >>>>>>>>>>>> Harry > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too >>>>>>>>>>>> busy. >>>>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen >>>>>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>>>>> old, >>>>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I >>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social >>>>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a >>>>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to > winning >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having > good >>>>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who >>>>>>>>>>>> is > a >>>>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've >>>>>>>>>>>> dealt >>>>>>>>>>>> with, >>>>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had > a >>>>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a >>>>>>>>>>>> friend. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well >>>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. > I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>> this. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>> initiate, >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Star, >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, > as >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> invited >>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from >>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It > is >>>>>>> often >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> listen to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do >>>>>>>>>>>> lunch on >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, >>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, >>>>>>>>>>>>> IF >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> skill >>>>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. >>>>>>>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he >>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't, >>>>>>>>>>>> just too >>>>>>>>>>>>> busy! > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President >>>>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center: >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizo >>>>>>>> n.net > > >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthl >>>>>>>> ink.net > >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature database 3579 (20081103) __________ > >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo > 1%40hotmail >>>>>>>> .com > >>>>>>>>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show > you >>>>>>>>> how. > > >>>>>>> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.c > om-Blog-cns >>>>>>>> !20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthl >>>>>>>> ink.net > >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus >>>>>>>>> signature database 3583 (20081104) __________ > >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev > nikar%40uto >>>>>>>> ronto.ca > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gi > lmer%40gmai >>>>>>> l.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate5 > 6%40juno.com > >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - 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As in Jeff Young? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > They offer a number of things. I could write quite a bit on them. But, do > you're own research. > I recently graduated from the Louisiana Center for the Blind. So, > naturally i have the most experience with it compared to the other NFB > training centers. > Here is the link to the LCB website > http://www.lcb-ruston.com > They have international students quite often, so just because your in > Canada doesn't mean you couldn't attend one of them. The closest to you > would be in Minnesota. > The NFB training centers are truly a great thing for the Blind. > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Jevnikar" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:17 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > > >> Hi all, >> I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't >> anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I >> can >> try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less >> formal >> or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled >> classes or is a drop-in type deal? >> Thank you for your help. >> Sarah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeff.young8806%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 20:04:10 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:04:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <20081116143108.ISCQ3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <49207cc1.1c17400a.13ce.6ddf@mx.google.com> Hello All, I would like to interject my thoughts and experience with the terms we use, and the consequences thereof. I add mine as a sighted person and as an elected representative of (in the end in a practical and real manner) the nation's blind and low vision children and their families. Until my own son was eight we struggled and switched back and forth between partial, legal, and low. When we met the NFB we learned it was fine, acceptable, and accurate enough to just say blind. It was a relief to my son, and to me. It is what he has chosen, and I have followed, ever since. I would like to respond by going to some of Harry and Chris W.'s thoughts or points. On Harry's feeling: Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired... My feelings: If we are thinking accuracy is primary...my thoughts are these. The definition of impaired from the American Heritage dictionary: To cause to diminish, as in strength, value, or quality...see synonyms at injure; the origins or root in Latin is the word for to worsen. In the use of the term "mere": mere means nothing more than specified: So Harry says, and others I have heard articulate the same, that using legally blind is saying nothing more than the legally blind person meets the legal definition. Saying it this way implies that they can see something. So they are not in reality blind. Mere is also defined as small or slight. Does this give an accurate answer to the public? This is my experience. People think legally blind means "not really". The law says, and I agree, it means, yes you are really; you are really in real and functional terms. It is this "not really" mentality that is one of the greatest causes of failure to succeed in education and employment and the realization of true independence for those who have 20/200 and worse or a field of less than 20 degrees. By definition in that definition, when you rely on it, you compete with less than 10% of what others have 100% of. My son has 20/400 measured long distance in acuity in a perfect clinic setting, with a total field cut of no vision below the nose, with some color loss, with a high need for light, with other blind spots, with a worse acuity in his central vision. The measured distance acuity alone in a perfect setting for contrast and light and no movement gives him a 95% loss from 20/20 just from the starting gate under, as I said, perfect conditions which only exist in a clinic setting. For near distance he can make things out, tell what they are fairly clearly, with light, and head tilting, and if the contrast is good, and the font is simple and over 16 font in size and he has magnification and he brings it up to within 3 to 6 inches of his face. His near vision is not sustainable for longer than very brief periods of use. So is it accurate to give someone the idea he is not really blind? Does the impact of this profound loss in his ability to function using primarily the sense of sight to accomplish everyday tasks get conveyed accurately by saying his sight is slightly, or nothing more than, diminished in strength, value and/or quality? Where to draw the line? Do we really have a responsibility to draw it exactly for everyone we meet? Is my son obligated to explain to everyone curious exactly how he sees? He has had no personal experience in comparing his vision to 20/20; that is the explanation sighted people try to reference from. How can he compare something he has no experience with? If they then come to some understanding from his description does that mean they understand how the next visually impaired, or low vision, or blind person sees? Must he constantly make sure everyone understands the difference between the ability to see (something) and tell exactly what it is? On the comparison with the deaf community. You should know that the deaf community itself struggles, often vehemently, between sign language, and cochlear implants, and learning to speak and read lips. There are strong and oppositional philosophies. Most deaf people can hear something, the question is can they accurately make out what that something is. Most blind people can see something, the question is can they accurately tell what that something is. I have never heard of a deaf child, or one hard of hearing, who had their hearing aids ripped out and told to leave them by the locker at school. I hear this all the time where blind children with some low vision especially, but "totals" too, are told to leave the cane by the door, in the locker, or not use it at all. Are deaf and hard of hearing children who may be considered "not really", denied sign language as much as "not really" considered blind children are denied Braille? And let's not kid ourselves, the blind children are denied Braille because primarily people around them want to consider them "not really" blind. This comes back to the stigmas of blindness. I see it on the faces of everyone I meet. If I say this child is blind, the look of concern is grave. And I use the term grave, as in serious, and death implied, purposefully. If I then add, well, legally blind, they display visible and audible senses of relief. The question is should they be relieved? It is that sense of relief that I fight everyday. Are deaf or hard of hearing persons considered obligated when speaking to say that they are legally qualified to say they are deaf? Do we have legally deaf, and legally using a wheelchair, qualifications? Is it faking it, and considered lying, for a person who can stand or walk a little to go about in a wheelchair and let others assume they cannot use their legs at all, not ever, in any way? Not all people who go about in a wheel chair are totally paralyzed from the waist down. What is their obligation to inform the public? Should they have a sign on the back of the wheelchair explaining when and how often they can use their legs? Something that indicates "not really" paralyzed? Why do people get incensed? I'll tell you why. Because if you are saying you are deaf, blind, or in a wheel chair, then I (typical non-disabled person) feel a measured amount of feeling sorry for you, and if you then say "not really" you have faked getting my sympathy to a much higher degree than I feel I am morally obligated to give you. How does someone go about getting the measurement of just how much they should feel sorry for someone else? This is the crux of the issue. It is not about adding visually impaired as much as it has been the deletion and avoidance of blindness. It is about wrongly giving some measured amount to the "not reallys" and giving some measure more automatically to the "reallys" based on the myths and legends about blindness. It is all about it being respectable to be blind. Does my son have some lack of understanding that the vision he has indeed has provided some real conveniences and pleasures? No. He is likely to lose it all, and in the next 5-10 years. Will he be blinder then? Not really, and yes really. Will he miss what he has, and the conveniences? Yes, really. Will he have any less ability to function and succeed, and enjoy life, and find love and happiness? No, not really. We measure these things often by perceptional or learned value. Even in race. Obama is 50% black, 50% white. Who speaks of him as a white man? In his physical characteristics he looks like a black man. My son is 50% Swedish and English, and 45% black and 5% Native American. If he picks one box to check on the form, does he lie by excluding the others? Does he always have to explain to everyone his full family tree? He is black, blind, and beautiful. He is also sighted and white and beautiful. He is also Blackfoot and Sioux and legally blind and beautiful. Any of these headlines would accurately describe him to some degree. He is Jordan. Totally unique. And all he is obligated to be is the best Jordan he can be. It is his internal characteristics that will matter the most. What he calls himself is his own right to call himself. That is what I have taught him; as long as he is not purposefully trying to fool anyone for some ulterior motive or denying calling himself something out of embarrassment or shame. That is also what I believe the NFB has taught him. Have they gone too far? I think not. Another Sunday's 52 cents worth at least. Smile. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 20:35:35 2008 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:35:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Check Out The New Nickelback Album And Meet CJ From Canada On Tonight's Djd Invasion Message-ID: Hello To All! Perhaps you've heard her call in on a few occasions to request songs and say hello. Perhaps you've heard her very sweet-sounding voice on some of my station tags and promos. And even if you've never heard her, you're in for a treat! For tonight, CJ from Canada will be co hosting tonight's Djd Invasion, which starts at 8 PM central. This should be a show filled to the brim with awesomeness including Some songs from a performer from Canadian Idol that CJ knows well My review of the new Nickelback album Dark Horse, which hits stores on Tuesday. Find out what songs I think will make it, and hear them for yourself for the first time tonight A little comedy will be thrown your way And more... As I said, the fun begins at 8 PM central tonight! If you would like to get in touch during the show to make requests or to say hi, it's easy to do! You can send an msn message or an email to djdrocks4ever at gmail.com hit me up on aol instant messenger at the screen name djdrocks search my song library for a tune you'd like to hear by visiting http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/request.php or when we're not playing songs, give CJ and I a call by phone by dialing 1-516-874-5071 or hit us up on skype at thedjdinvasion This is going to be a show jam packed with fun, music, and more, so to listen, save this email, and at 8 PM central, go to http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html to be connected to tonight's show! Both CJ and I hope to see you all there! Best regards, David, A.K.A Djd, and CJB, your hosts for tonight's Djd Invasion http://www.thedjdinvasion.com From blindhistory at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 20:59:42 2008 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:59:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: That is not what I was saying at all!. I am totally open about talking about my blindness and am totally accepting of my blindness. It is just sometimes easier if you are in a hurry to say visually impaired than blind so you don't have to explain your vision in a hurry. My previous message was obviously taken the wrong way. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:34 AM, David Andrews wrote: > Joseph: > > I understand what you are saying about politically correct o language. It > can be taken to far. On the other hand, some change in language is the > first step in bringing about change. For example, if we still used the N > word, African-Americans wouldn't have probably achieved much civil rights > wise. People stopped using the word even though some of them still probably > thought of blacks in terms of the N word and all it applies. However, for > most of us, eventually our actions and and thoughts start to follow our > words. > > Dave > > At 11:22 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: > >> Harry, I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It >> forces people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not >> say. Morally, that seems wrong to me. I endeavor to say exactly what I >> think. Not everyone likes that. And you know what? That's fine. In fact, >> sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, you've got to be willing to accept >> responsibility for being wrong now and then, or you'd best not say anything. >> Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >> everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >> number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >> road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* Joseph On >> Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >Here's an >> interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about the word "visually >> impaired," or any other kind of "politically correct "language, and insist >> that we call things the way they are, but yet we also insist that the >> techniques we use be called "alternative." I understand and agree with >> that one, because "substitute techniques" does sound inferior, but I just >> think it's interesting how strict we are on our termonology. > > >--- On >> Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > >From: >> Chris Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, >> 8:10 PM > >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >> with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I >> said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >> deafness >generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >> inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, >> however, you no that I do >not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing >> aids. I also accept that certain >things are much harder if not impossible >> for me, such as street crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. >> Why is it deemed OK for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not >> OK for a visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? >> after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. The >> more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling with >> some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original Message ----- >> From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >To: "National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: >> Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical >> Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. >> The NFB >philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me >> blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call >> me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like >> anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always >> tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov >> 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the >> subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. That >> is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to attract new >> members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't want to push >> people toward the delete button after only reading the >subject line. >> Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you >-- we in the >> Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual vision. >Let's not >> push people away from our great organization before they even know >who we >> are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >undermining >> ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out >there who >> don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody >> else) to show them our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> >> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello >> Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for >> calling us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very >> interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this also. I >> think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be important for >> the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> impaired or low >> vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >These >>> people might >> be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >want to >>> identify >> as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... >this >>> group >> is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >> >that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >> that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally >> blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a >> legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in >> certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we are sacrificing >> what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >>> individuals into >> our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but >> I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the >most >>> recent one and >> has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and >> visually impaired high school students!" This makes >some sense >>> >> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >> >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >> >terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >> family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >> refer to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is >> the email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was >> actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something >> like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just >> use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am >> definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or >person... I >> am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >impaired, low >> vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely >> using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is >> this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >> >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >> >blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >> blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >> as >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >> us >debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, >> to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >> and >what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the >> matter of >importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- >> Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: >> "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, >> 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> >> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out >> to >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, >> the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >> word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people >> struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few >> years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with >> anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and >> called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness >> is a grieving process that each person goes >through >>>> differently. What >> we have to do is serve as positive blind role >models, >>>> and show that >> being blind is no different than being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> >> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >> >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >> >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of >> Blind Students >>>> >__________________________________ _____________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/na >> bs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: >> 270.9.4/1790 - Release Date: 11/15/2008 9:32 AM >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 16 23:37:14 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:37:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <20081116053249.GB6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20081116053249.GB6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Joseph, are you still in Oregon? I think I wrote you about colleges for the blind a while back. I guess what you were saying about putting in effort at the nfb center Colorado center can be said about school. What you put in your school work will get you a good grade. You will do well on that exam if you study and work hard. If you put the effort in what you study at school you will be finished in no time. The academic part of it is that you have good study skills you put the effort to follow the directions to complete all assignments and study for exams you will finish in no time with good grades. Whether we as blind people use alternative techniques blind people need to know school can be finished just like an nfb training center is boot camp. School can be too. Albert> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:32:49 -0800> From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > Sarah, let me offer most of what I wrote on another list just days ago on > the subject of what I got out of the Colorado Center for the Blind:> > > I am an alum of the Colorado Center, like many on this list. I can tell > you honestly that the CCB did not teach me all of the things I learned > while I was in Colorado, but the experience put me in the right places at > the right times to leave the center a far stronger individual than I > arrived.> > When I first went to the CCB, I was a cluttered, disorganized "high > partial" who depended extensively upon my vision (which I already had > accepted as mostly useless). I had accepted the label of blind, and I > used a cane, though not well. I couldn't cook, didn't really clean up > after myself, and was afraid to cross streets in sunlight. Busy streets > made me nervous even at night when I can see better. I didn't know > Braille, and I had never really used tools other than for fixing computers > before.> > I came back from the CCB still cluttered and disorganized (it'll take more > than eight months to change that in my case!), but I now know how to clean > up after myself. I can cook well enough to feed myself, and the food I > make is good, if simple. I can do and have done basic home repairs on my > own, and I know that I can use the tools in a shop safely.> > While I never got near the record for Braille speed, I did set the record > for fastest Braille reader who had never known Braille as an adult--165 > words per minute. Closer to 250 if I can predict the words as on a warm > read or a Homerian epic or something. (How many times would I have to > read "wine dark sea" before I began to read the phrase automatically?) I > can say with certainty that I've since lost almost all of that speed > because I have not had the opportunity to practice in three month > stretches over the course of graduate school. But you know, I can still > feel the dots, if more slowly now, and I know my contractions--I can get > it back, any time I am ready.> > And then there are travel skills. I've got some of the best you'll find > anywhere. Some blind people wield their canes with big, heavy-handed, > clumsy movements. I use very light, highly controlled movements in a > style that is uniquely my own, developed because the way taught by Brent > and Eric hurt my hand at first. Eric Woods showed me how to attend to > distant sounds and track information available from sometimes several > blocks away. I had a natural talent for direction-tracking, and very > sharp ears once I began learning what to listen for, but the rest was > learned. Combined with problem-solving skills I learned years ago and a > few basic tips, it's not really a boast that I'm one of the best travelers > to come out of any training center.> > Just about everything I did is achievable by any blind person who really > wants it badly enough. There's nothing really that special about me. It > is a testament to the NFB that a guy who is pretty clever can go from > virtually no skills to mastery level performance in just eight months. > Most state-run centers would have told me 40 words per minute was all an > adult Braille learner could do or that there were just some intersections > that aren't safe to cross or that one thing or another just wasn't > practical.> > At the CCB, the usual answer to the impractical thing was, "Okay. That's > gonna be hard, but okay. How much are you willing to invest to make it > happen?" My answer was whatever it took. I won't lie to you, it took a > lot. But I put the effort in, and look what I got for it!> > I believe that what a person will get out of the Colorado Center for the > Blind is a function of what they put in to it. The thing is, you'll > always get more out than you put in.> > > Hope that helps Sarah! I will be happy to answer any questions you have.> > Joseph> > > On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:17:55AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:> >Hi all,> >I have a question. What do you learn in NFB training centers? There isn't> >anything comparable in Canada but I'm wondering what you guys learn so I can> >try to seek out similar opportunities here, though probably in a less formal> >or organized setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled> >classes or is a drop-in type deal?> >Thank you for your help.> >Sarah> > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008 From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 23:56:57 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:56:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 Message-ID: <683663.64855.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, I've a question for a freind of mine.  She recently got a Motorola CQ9 phone which she was told would talk; as it turns out it actually has TTY, which, obviously, does her no good. Is there anyway of putting a copy of Mobile Speak on two different phones (she would be sharing her brother's copy).   Thanks,   Harry   From jeff.young8806 at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 00:03:31 2008 From: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com (Jeff) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:03:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 References: <683663.64855.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c94847$ee75b860$4201a8c0@Hyrum65> Hi, we've just been having a discussion about this on the Mobile Speak Smart phone list. The answer probably not. Your friend would probably have to purchase their own version of Mobile speak. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 Hello everyone, I've a question for a freind of mine. She recently got a Motorola CQ9 phone which she was told would talk; as it turns out it actually has TTY, which, obviously, does her no good. Is there anyway of putting a copy of Mobile Speak on two different phones (she would be sharing her brother's copy). Thanks, Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeff.young8806%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 00:29:50 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:29:50 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081117002950.GA12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Dezman, There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a cane and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against me on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared for the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable answer, if not one I prefer. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: > I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in > general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch than say > the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances where I'm > scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. > Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself as > just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as > visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to speak. I > don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's your > motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the > public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of sight. > This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function of > how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off you > are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this > concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling now. > > Cheers, > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally > blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind > would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are > visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If you > have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that either. And > if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, you are > still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter what > you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within > yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to do > alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other people > choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, when > someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the > ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, "well > they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can take > anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a bit > too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what people > need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large print, > what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because someone > has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is what > most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave up > on that a long time ago. > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > > From: Chris Westbrook > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > > Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually impaired > you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with > another > disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing > impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness > generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to > speak, > etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that > I do > not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that > certain > things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings > and > socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call > myself > hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to > call > themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind > you are > visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find > myself > struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take > offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much but am > otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a > blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. > Just as > we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the > subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all of you > -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual > vision. > Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even know > who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others out > there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board and > as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good > one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as > visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. > These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not > want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired person... > this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the fact > that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred > and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these > new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be the > most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > "Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes > some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer to > other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email > subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced > to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new > blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe that > perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and > blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as > solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among us > debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and > what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word > "Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as > blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes > through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It is > simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 00:39:02 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:39:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20081117003902.GB12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Actually, my point was about the expense of converting over to this new system. It's the same problem you have with the chirpers--if you install them when you service an intersection, the cost is in the thousands, but the rollout time is counted in decades. If you install them now, you're talking billions of dollars. Are billions of dollars worth it given the fact that people still run red lights and that danger remains for a person with dual sensory impairments? Someone with multiple sensory impairments might well answer yes to that question, legitimately. And if that answer is yes, then this technology might have some legitimate application. To suggest that I need the thing, as these people do, is insulting and demeaning. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 06:29:31AM -0700, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the >technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though if >you can't see or hear the cars coming. > >On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter > wrote: > >> Sarah, >> >> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear >> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i >>> do >>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>> suddenly. >>> >>> Take care. >>> >>> Sarah "Alawami >>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>> >>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>> >>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible cell >>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software he's >>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what blind >>> people actually use. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>> money needed for this project? >>>> >>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing the >>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>> Thanks >>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool already in >>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>> >>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for >>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while wearing >>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, many >>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>> >>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>> >>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more likely >>>> to >>>> >>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>> professor >>>> >>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that >>>> the >>>> >>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>> >>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular >>>> >>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>> (GPS) >>>> >>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. >>>> >>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>> >>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>> >>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel while >>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on how >>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in the >>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every light >>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>> >>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns when >>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them for a >>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>> victim." >>>> >>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>> >>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. >>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>> >>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre provide >>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>> However, >>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so at >>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>> >>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet over >>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>> >>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have established >>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in >>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the University >>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research Council >>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the >>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>> >>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using >>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>> It's >>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be >>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>> >>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people involved, >>>> please let me know. >>>> >>>> Ken Kingery >>>> >>>> Science/Research Writer >>>> >>>> University of Idaho >>>> >>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>> >>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>> >>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic < >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>> >>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>> >>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>> Messages < >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>> >>>>> | Files < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Photos < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>> >>>>> | Links < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Database < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Polls < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>> >>>>> | Members < >>>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a >>>> blank email to: >>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>> MARKETPLACE >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >< >>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>> Yahoo! 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Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:46:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <20081116040224.EWUV19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <3977647DF03E4EFABD564EF66E87898E@chrisw> Message-ID: <20081117004647.GC12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Well said, David. That was the biggest lesson the Colorado Center hoped to teach people like me with a lot of vision in certain circumstances. We still need to know how to work without it, and there really isn't much of a difference between having some and not having any. I do think you have perhaps projected a bit on Hannah that was not in her message, though. She said simply that she doesn't understand why a person would allow a person to believe they could see nothing. I agree to an extent. How many times have people accused me of being "not really blind"? Better to explain it, even if it's inconvenient, I think. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:45:12AM -0600, David Andrews wrote: > At the risk of offending you -- I think your message and analogy are > revealing. To me you are saying it is better being visually impaired > then totally blind. You are obviously uncomfortable with someone > thinking someone is totally blind when they might not be. > > I would say that it is not better being blind or visually impaired. They > both are conditions with good and bad and we move forward from there. > > I used to have some vision and considered myself lucky and tended to de > vide the world into "us" and "Them." then I lost the rest of my vision > and became a "them" and found out there wasn't that much of a > difference. > > Dave From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 01:00:34 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:00:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <20081116053249.GB6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <002501c9484f$e6728190$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thanks for putting it that way. I went to Bism for my training but I am struggling in the massage therapy program I am in but this is what I want to do because I really enjoy giving massages. I now have a better way of looking at the experience I am going threw. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Yoo" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > > Joseph, are you still in Oregon? I think I wrote you about colleges for > the blind a while back. I guess what you were saying about putting in > effort at the nfb center Colorado center can be said about school. What > you put in your school work will get you a good grade. You will do well on > that exam if you study and work hard. If you put the effort in what you > study at school you will be finished in no time. The academic part of it > is that you have good study skills you put the effort to follow the > directions to complete all assignments and study for exams you will finish > in no time with good grades. Whether we as blind people use alternative > techniques blind people need to know school can be finished just like an > nfb training center is boot camp. School can be too. Albert> Date: Sat, 15 > Nov 2008 21:32:49 -0800> From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> To: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers> > Sarah, > let me offer most of what I wrote on another list just days ago on > the > subject of what I got out of the Colorado Center for the Blind:> > > I am > an alum of the Colorado Center, like many on this list. I can tell > you > honestly that the CCB did not teach me all of the things I learned > while > I was in Colorado, but the experience put me in the right places at > the > right times to leave the center a far stronger individual than I > > arrived.> > When I first went to the CCB, I was a cluttered, disorganized > "high > partial" who depended extensively upon my vision (which I already > had > accepted as mostly useless). I had accepted the label of blind, and > I > used a cane, though not well. I couldn't cook, didn't really clean up > > after myself, and was afraid to cross streets in sunlight. Busy streets > > made me nervous even at night when I can see better. I didn't know > > Braille, and I had never really used tools other than for fixing computers > > before.> > I came back from the CCB still cluttered and disorganized > (it'll take more > than eight months to change that in my case!), but I > now know how to clean > up after myself. I can cook well enough to feed > myself, and the food I > make is good, if simple. I can do and have done > basic home repairs on my > own, and I know that I can use the tools in a > shop safely.> > While I never got near the record for Braille speed, I did > set the record > for fastest Braille reader who had never known Braille as > an adult--165 > words per minute. Closer to 250 if I can predict the words > as on a warm > read or a Homerian epic or something. (How many times would > I have to > read "wine dark sea" before I began to read the phrase > automatically?) I > can say with certainty that I've since lost almost all > of that speed > because I have not had the opportunity to practice in > three month > stretches over the course of graduate school. But you know, > I can still > feel the dots, if more slowly now, and I know my > contractions--I can get > it back, any time I am ready.> > And then there > are travel skills. I've got some of the best you'll find > anywhere. Some > blind people wield their canes with big, heavy-handed, > clumsy movements. > I use very light, highly controlled movements in a > style that is > uniquely my own, developed because the way taught by Brent > and Eric hurt > my hand at first. Eric Woods showed me how to attend to > distant sounds > and track information available from sometimes several > blocks away. I > had a natural talent for direction-tracking, and very > sharp ears once I > began learning what to listen for, but the rest was > learned. Combined > with problem-solving skills I learned years ago and a > few basic tips, > it's not really a boast that I'm one of the best travelers > to come out > of any training center.> > Just about everything I did is achievable by > any blind person who really > wants it badly enough. There's nothing > really that special about me. It > is a testament to the NFB that a guy > who is pretty clever can go from > virtually no skills to mastery level > performance in just eight months. > Most state-run centers would have told > me 40 words per minute was all an > adult Braille learner could do or that > there were just some intersections > that aren't safe to cross or that one > thing or another just wasn't > practical.> > At the CCB, the usual answer > to the impractical thing was, "Okay. That's > gonna be hard, but okay. How > much are you willing to invest to make it > happen?" My answer was > whatever it took. I won't lie to you, it took a > lot. But I put the > effort in, and look what I got for it!> > I believe that what a person > will get out of the Colorado Center for the > Blind is a function of what > they put in to it. The thing is, you'll > always get more out than you put > in.> > > Hope that helps Sarah! I will be happy to answer any questions > you have.> > Joseph> > > On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:17:55AM -0500, Sarah > Jevnikar wrote:> >Hi all,> >I have a question. What do you learn in NFB > training centers? There isn't> >anything comparable in Canada but I'm > wondering what you guys learn so I can> >try to seek out similar > opportunities here, though probably in a less formal> >or organized > setting. Who can access these centers? Are there scheduled> >classes or is > a drop-in type deal?> >Thank you for your help.> >Sarah> > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 01:55:31 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:55:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 In-Reply-To: <00cb01c94847$ee75b860$4201a8c0@Hyrum65> Message-ID: <57137.43329.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks.   Harry --- On Sun, 11/16/08, Jeff wrote: From: Jeff Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 6:03 PM Hi, we've just been having a discussion about this on the Mobile Speak Smart phone list. The answer probably not. Your friend would probably have to purchase their own version of Mobile speak. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Motorola CQ9 Hello everyone, I've a question for a freind of mine. She recently got a Motorola CQ9 phone which she was told would talk; as it turns out it actually has TTY, which, obviously, does her no good. Is there anyway of putting a copy of Mobile Speak on two different phones (she would be sharing her brother's copy). Thanks, Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeff.young8806%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 02:33:43 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:33:43 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: <20081117003902.GB12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20081117003902.GB12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Hi all, I definitely understand the concern for people with hearing loss, but the way this technology is described, it'll do little or nothing to help people with hearing loss or poor training. While it will help slightly if you've veered out of the crosswalk, it won't help you identify the green light or protect you from moving traffic if you're going straight across the street. I would imagine that these latter concerns--knowing when to cross in the first place and avoiding being hit by cars that turn or run straight through the red light--are more serious problems than the problem of straightening out a crooked crossing, yet this technology only helps with the crooked-crossing issue. Cheers Arielle On 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Actually, my point was about the expense of converting over to this new > system. It's the same problem you have with the chirpers--if you install > them when you service an intersection, the cost is in the thousands, but > the rollout time is counted in decades. If you install them now, you're > talking billions of dollars. > > Are billions of dollars worth it given the fact that people still run red > lights and that danger remains for a person with dual sensory impairments? > Someone with multiple sensory impairments might well answer yes to that > question, legitimately. And if that answer is yes, then this technology > might have some legitimate application. > > To suggest that I need the thing, as these people do, is insulting and > demeaning. > > Joseph > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 06:29:31AM -0700, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >>It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the >>technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though >> if >>you can't see or hear the cars coming. >> >>On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter >> >> wrote: >> >>> Sarah, >>> >>> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >>> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear >>> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i >>>> do >>>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>>> suddenly. >>>> >>>> Take care. >>>> >>>> Sarah "Alawami >>>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>>> >>>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>>> >>>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible >>>> cell >>>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software >>>> he's >>>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what >>>> blind >>>> people actually use. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>>> money needed for this project? >>>>> >>>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing >>>>> the >>>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >>>>> already in >>>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>>> >>>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for >>>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >>>>> wearing >>>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, >>>>> many >>>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>>> >>>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>>> >>>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >>>>> likely >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>>> professor >>>>> >>>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>>> >>>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular >>>>> >>>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>>> (GPS) >>>>> >>>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. >>>>> >>>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>>> >>>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>>> >>>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel >>>>> while >>>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on >>>>> how >>>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in >>>>> the >>>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every >>>>> light >>>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>>> >>>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >>>>> when >>>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them >>>>> for a >>>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>>> victim." >>>>> >>>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>>> >>>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. >>>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>>> >>>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre >>>>> provide >>>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>>> However, >>>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >>>>> at >>>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>>> >>>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet >>>>> over >>>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>>> >>>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >>>>> established >>>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in >>>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the >>>>> University >>>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research >>>>> Council >>>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the >>>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>>> >>>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using >>>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>>> It's >>>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be >>>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>>> >>>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >>>>> involved, >>>>> please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Ken Kingery >>>>> >>>>> Science/Research Writer >>>>> >>>>> University of Idaho >>>>> >>>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>>> >>>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>>> >>>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic < >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>>> >>>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>>> >>>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>>> Messages < >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>> >>>>>> | Files < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Photos < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>> >>>>>> | Links < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Database < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Polls < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>> >>>>>> | Members < >>>>>> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send >>>>> a >>>>> blank email to: >>>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >>>>> >< >>>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>>> Yahoo! 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Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:22:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <655807.67061.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20081117042237.GA12434@yumi.bluecherry.net> David, People still use the word in all its derogatory glory. Others who are themselves somewhat unsavory use it as a term to refer to "their own kind" that is tolerated coming from one who is black. The advances we have made in American society to end racism happened in spite of, not because of this. The word simply should not be used by anybody. What advances have we made exactly? We just elected a man to the office of the president of the United States who happens to identify himself as black. They voted for him in parts of the country where he'd likely have been beaten to death 150 years ago for having the audacity to learn how to read. Today, he's getting ready to take on a position that many have described as leader of the free world. That's true no matter what you think of his policies, record, tactics, or style. Certainly racism is not dead, but it sure doesn't have much legitimacy anymore. Disability discrimination, however, is still commonplace. Dezman reminds us that sighted people believe in a hierarchy of vision, and those who do not act like they are more sighted are assumed to be able to do less. I cannot describe the situation I am most familiar with right now, but it communicates clearly to me just how much we still need to accomplish. Quibbling over language isn't going to get us there. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:34:10AM -0600, David Andrews wrote: > Joseph: > > I understand what you are saying about politically correct o language. > It can be taken to far. On the other hand, some change in language is > the first step in bringing about change. For example, if we still used > the N word, African-Americans wouldn't have probably achieved much civil > rights wise. People stopped using the word even though some of them > still probably thought of blacks in terms of the N word and all it > applies. However, for most of us, eventually our actions and and > thoughts start to follow our words. > > Dave > > At 11:22 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >> Harry, I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It >> forces people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do >> not say. Morally, that seems wrong to me. I endeavor to say exactly >> what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you know what? That's >> fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, you've got to be >> willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, or >> you'd best not say anything. Too often, politically correct speech is >> used as an excuse to have everything be so nebulous that anything you >> say can be interpreted any number of ways, none of which you can be >> held responsible for. Down that road lies the girlie-men from Joe >> Orozco's history lesson. *grin* Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at >> 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >Here's an interesting thought. >> We get all bent out of shape about the word "visually impaired," or any >> other kind of "politically correct "language, and insist that we call >> things the way they are, but yet we also insist that the techniques we >> use be called "alternative." I understand and agree with that one, >> because "substitute techniques" does sound inferior, but I just think >> it's interesting how strict we are on our termonology. > > >--- On Sat, >> 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > >From: Chris >> Westbrook >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical >> Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >> >Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> impaired >you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an >> example with another >disability from my own life. I am hearing >> impaired. Notice I said hearing >impaired, not deaf. I choose not to >> call myself deaf, because deafness >generally implies profound hearing >> loss, sign language, the inability to speak, >etc. If any of you have >> been around me for a while, however, you no that I do >not deny my >> hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that certain >> >things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >> crossings and >socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK >> for me to call myself >hearing impaired when it is not OK for a >> visually impaired individual to call >themselves visually impaired? >> after all, even if you are totally blind you are >visually impaired. >> The more I think about these things, the more I find myself >struggling >> with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >----- Original >> Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >To: >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are >> all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >philosophy is about >> actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I >> am helpless, I will take >offense. If you call me impaired and mean >> that I just can't see much but am >otherwise like anyone else, I'll >> accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the >> difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, >> 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the >> subject line, but I am assuming that was a >blanket marketing e-mail. >> That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. Just as >we want to >> attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >wouldn't >> want to push people toward the delete button after only reading the >> >subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >> of you >-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >> residual vision. >Let's not push people away from our great >> organization before they even know >who we are and why we use the words >> we do. I don't think we're >undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- >> we're trying to find others out >there who don't see as well as their >> peers (seniors, students, >and...well...everybody else) to show them >> our positive philosophy on blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >> >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, >> Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling >> us, as the nabs board and >as >>> nabs members, out on this very >> interesting point. I have recently >noticed >>> something like this >> also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >one. It >>> might be >> important for the Federation to use terminology such as >visually >>> >> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of people. >> >These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they >> might not >want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you >> visually impaired person... >this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we >> have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them >> about our philosophy and educate them in the fact >that we >>> are all >> blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing that > the >> visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, >> the key word is blind. One is not going to be >>> recognized as a >> legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do >> wonder in certain instances where the lines get blurred >and if >>> we >> are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get these >new >> >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >> specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it >> seems to be the >most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The >> salutation line- >"Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high >> school students!" This makes >some sense >>> according to Terri's >> argument. We want those who self identify as >visually >>> impaired to >> come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >terminology >>> >> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation family? >>> >> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >> to >other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >> email >subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was >> actually announced >to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was >> something like- Blind and Visually >Impaired >>> Teen Group on >> Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >blindness >>> group of >> facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any >> specific group or >person... I am really curious, because I have seen >> terms such as visually >impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our >> literature recently, also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as >> the most recent and relevant >example. >>> Is this a new trend in >> Federation philosophy? or do we believe that >perhaps >>> trying to be >> all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax and >blur >>> the >> lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all blind >>> >> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not as >> >solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >> Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the >> philosophers among us >debate >>> this observation. What are the >> effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to >> tighten our concepts about blindness and >what it >>> stands for within >> the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >importance? >>> >>> >> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and >> all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >> >nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, >> the >philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", >> that word >"Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those >> people struggling to deal or accept their >>>> blindness. It was only >> until a few years ago that I was one of >them. I >>>> didn't want to >> associate with anything that labeled me as >blind. I felt >>>> ashamed >> to be blind and called myself "visually >impaired". The acceptance >> >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >> >through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >> blind role >models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than >> being short. It is >simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we >> attract them to these groups, we can >promote NFB >>>> activities, >> scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >philosophy. >>>> >>>> >> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind >> Students >>>> >__________________________________ _____________ >nabs-l >> mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/ma >> ilman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/na >> bs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: >> 270.9.4/1790 - Release Date: 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From missheather at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 04:35:44 2008 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:35:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081117002950.GA12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> Hi all, After long years of being discriminated against because of the hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so because I have found that using a term for which the general public has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others because they don't know what else to do. It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate information about the nature of this person's particular version of functional blindness. A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something or other because they only have impaired vision. This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our mutual advantage. Best regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Dezman, There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a cane and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against me on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared for the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable answer, if not one I prefer. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: > I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in > general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch > than say > the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances > where I'm > scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. > Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself > as > just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as > visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to > speak. I > don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's > your > motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the > public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of > sight. > This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function > of > how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off > you > are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this > concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling > now. > > Cheers, > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely > legally > blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely > blind > would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are > visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If > you > have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that > either. And > if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, > you are > still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter > what > you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within > yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to > do > alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other > people > choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, > when > someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the > ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, > "well > they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can > take > anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a > bit > too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what > people > need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large > print, > what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because > someone > has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is > what > most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave > up > on that a long time ago. > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > > From: Chris Westbrook > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > > Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > impaired > you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example > with > another > disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said > hearing > impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because > deafness > generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the > inability to > speak, > etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no > that > I do > not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept > that > certain > things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street > crossings > and > socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to > call > myself > hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired > individual to > call > themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally > blind > you are > visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I > find > myself > struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take > offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see > much but am > otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a > blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded > around. > Just as > we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), > we > wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > reading the > subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with > all of you > -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some > residual > vision. > Let's not push people away from our great organization before they > even know > who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find > others out > there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>> and > as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good > one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as > visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>> people. > These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not > want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>> person... > this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>> fact > that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>> that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>> be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>> blurred > and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>> these > new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>> specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>> the > most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > "Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes > some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>> family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>> to > other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email > subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced > to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new > blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>> group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as > visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, > also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>> that > perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>> and > blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>> blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>> as > solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>> us > debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and > what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word > "Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>> their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as > blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes > through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>> is > simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From yvgarcia at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 05:44:27 2008 From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:44:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><20081117002950.GA12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> <980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> Message-ID: <026001c94877$8ee63750$0201a8c0@yolanda> Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! Warmest, Yolanda ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Hi all, > After long years of being discriminated against because of the > hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, > by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, > I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so > because I have found that using a term for which the general public > has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the > most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. > > When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally > blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with > others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their > questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, > well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not > really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to > get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to > tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without > relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people > may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the > matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns > about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much > vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or > visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my > abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision > or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to > help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much > more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others > because they don't know what else to do. > > It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep > asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, > because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop > asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later > date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly > met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you > see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. > What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come > up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to > me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer > that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. > It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want > to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, > confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, > I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most > people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from > them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and > it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and > if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine > reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, > I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. > > But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public > doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and > Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It > is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to > describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, > doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is > in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious > public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give > them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that > allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in > front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and > this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired > they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and > read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally > blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate > information about the nature of this person's particular version of > functional blindness. > > A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to > using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that > they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have > reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting > that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something > or other because they only have impaired vision. > > This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when > meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to > have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. > Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also > believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying > nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our > mutual advantage. > > Best regards, > > Heather Field > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Dezman, > > There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a > cane > and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against > me > on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. > > The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared > for > the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable > answer, if not one I prefer. > > Joseph > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >> than say >> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >> where I'm >> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >> as >> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >> speak. I >> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >> your >> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >> sight. >> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >> of >> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >> you >> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >> now. >> >> Cheers, >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >> legally >> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >> blind >> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >> you >> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >> either. And >> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >> you are >> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >> what >> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >> do >> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >> people >> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >> when >> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >> "well >> they can hear some but >> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >> take >> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >> bit >> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >> people >> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >> print, >> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >> someone >> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >> what >> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >> up >> on that a long time ago. >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >> From: Chris Westbrook >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> impaired >> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >> with >> another >> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >> hearing >> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >> deafness >> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >> inability to >> speak, >> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >> that >> I do >> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >> that >> certain >> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >> crossings >> and >> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >> call >> myself >> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >> individual to >> call >> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >> blind >> you are >> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >> find >> myself >> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >> much but am >> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >> around. >> Just as >> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >> we >> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >> reading the >> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >> all of you >> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >> residual >> vision. >> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >> even know >> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >> others out >> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >> blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>> and >> as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >> noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >> one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >> visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>> people. >> These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >> want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>> person... >> this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>> fact >> that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>> that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>> be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>> blurred >> and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>> these >> new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>> specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>> the >> most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >> "Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >> some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >> visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >> terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>> family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>> to >> other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >> subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >> to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >> blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>> group or >> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >> visually >> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >> also. I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >> example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>> that >> perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>> and >> blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>> blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>> as >> solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>> us >> debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >> what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >> importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >> nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >> philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>> their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >> them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >> blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >> impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >> through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >> models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>> is >> simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >> promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >> philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 05:47:14 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:47:14 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811091922r284eabbdk237a3d7e3558146a@mail.gmail.com> <20081116071246.GC6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20081117003902.GB12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20081117054714.GE12434@yumi.bluecherry.net> Arielle, It could just as easily provide an alert that the walk sign is lit, but it cannot force cars to stop. That's the most fundamental limitation of this kind of system. Of course, most cars do stop. It's just that when one doesn't, you're likely to become street pizza if you depend on this thing. Not my idea of a good plan. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 01:33:43PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, > >I definitely understand the concern for people with hearing loss, but >the way this technology is described, it'll do little or nothing to >help people with hearing loss or poor training. While it will help >slightly if you've veered out of the crosswalk, it won't help you >identify the green light or protect you from moving traffic if you're >going straight across the street. I would imagine that these latter >concerns--knowing when to cross in the first place and avoiding being >hit by cars that turn or run straight through the red light--are more >serious problems than the problem of straightening out a crooked >crossing, yet this technology only helps with the crooked-crossing >issue. > >Cheers >Arielle > >On 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Actually, my point was about the expense of converting over to this new >> system. It's the same problem you have with the chirpers--if you install >> them when you service an intersection, the cost is in the thousands, but >> the rollout time is counted in decades. If you install them now, you're >> talking billions of dollars. >> >> Are billions of dollars worth it given the fact that people still run red >> lights and that danger remains for a person with dual sensory impairments? >> Someone with multiple sensory impairments might well answer yes to that >> question, legitimately. And if that answer is yes, then this technology >> might have some legitimate application. >> >> To suggest that I need the thing, as these people do, is insulting and >> demeaning. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 06:29:31AM -0700, Lora and Myrtle wrote: >>>It seems with this technology the light would already be red and the >>>technology wouldn't have to change the light red. I see your point though >>> if >>>you can't see or hear the cars coming. >>> >>>On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:12 AM, T. Joseph Carter >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sarah, >>>> >>>> Do you think billions of dollars is a fair price to pay for you to risk >>>> your life to cross a street when you can neither see nor potentially hear >>>> the dangers--including cars running those red lights? >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 09:59:12AM -0600, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd agree there, but sometimes you have a hearing loss as well as a >>>>> blindness issue . I'd rather have the device vibrate and beep at me if i >>>>> do >>>>> start vearing and if I have a hearing loss then it to stop the traphic >>>>> suddenly. >>>>> >>>>> Take care. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah "Alawami >>>>> The christmas holidays are coming up! check out my music page at >>>>> http://music.marrie.org for some relaxing holiday favorites. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and have a wonderful day. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Beth >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:22 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Crossing the Street for the Blind >>>>> >>>>> Interesting stuff, Arielle. I'd rather have, however, an accessible >>>>> cell >>>>> phone rather than the cell phone I have in order to use the software >>>>> he's >>>>> putting together. He's got a long way to go as far as learning what >>>>> blind >>>>> people actually use. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 11/9/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder how many people's blindness training could be funded by the >>>>>> money needed for this project? >>>>>> >>>>>> For the 21.2 million Americans who suffer from vision loss, crossing >>>>>> the >>>>>> street can be a stressful and potentially dangerous proposition. >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> to engineers at the University of Idaho, many visually impaired >>>>>> individuals soon may have a greatly reduced risk thanks to a tool >>>>>> already in >>>>>> their pockets - their cell phone. >>>>>> >>>>>> The statistics for vision loss, provided by the American Foundation for >>>>>> the Blind, include anyone reporting difficulty seeing, even while >>>>>> wearing >>>>>> glasses or contact lenses. No matter the level of visual impairment, >>>>>> many >>>>>> conditions - including visual noise, walking at night and irregular >>>>>> intersections - can result in missing a crosswalk. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regardless of conditions, the new system being developed in Moscow, >>>>>> Idaho, will make intersections safer and easier to navigate. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Minute for minute on the road, any pedestrian is 150 percent more >>>>>> likely >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> be injured by a car than somebody driving one," said Richard Wall, >>>>>> professor >>>>>> >>>>>> of electrical and computer engineering. "But it is pretty apparent that >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> blind pedestrians are the ones most at risk at intersections.b >>>>>> >>>>>> The new technology utilizes features already available in many cellular >>>>>> >>>>>> phones, including communications, Global Positioning Satellite >>>>>> (GPS) >>>>>> >>>>>> functions and magnetic compasses to help visually impaired pedestrians. >>>>>> >>>>>> Specialized software allows these pedestrians to activate the crossing >>>>>> >>>>>> signal remotely without having to locate the physical button. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then, the GPS system monitors the position and direction of travel >>>>>> while >>>>>> crossing. As long as the crosser stays within the crosswalk, nothing >>>>>> happens. But stray outside the lines, and an audible warning activates >>>>>> alerting the pedestrian of their danger. It then provides directions on >>>>>> how >>>>>> to get back within the safety zone. Should the walker somehow end up in >>>>>> the >>>>>> middle of the intersection, the system automatically would turn every >>>>>> light >>>>>> red, stopping traffic and averting a potential disaster. >>>>>> >>>>>> "It's true that this would disrupt the timing of the signal patterns >>>>>> when >>>>>> it gets activated," said Wall. "But we would much rather disrupt them >>>>>> for a >>>>>> few seconds than for a half hour while an ambulance assists a traffic >>>>>> victim." >>>>>> >>>>>> To ensure people don't trigger the alarm just for fun, only those who >>>>>> need the help would be able to acquire the necessary software. >>>>>> >>>>>> The system requires more than software, however. It also requires the >>>>>> installation of new hardware in thousands of lights across the country. >>>>>> Luckily, Wall and his team have found a solution that not only is cost >>>>>> effective, it simplifies the existing system. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many crosswalks currently have handicapped-Many crosswalks curre >>>>>> provide >>>>>> help such as audio tones indicating when it is safe to cross. >>>>>> However, >>>>>> the box that controls the intersection contains a massive amount of >>>>>> wiring. This is necessary to connect each actuator with each signal so >>>>>> at >>>>>> any given time, the control box knows each state. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wall's new system simplifies each box to only two wires, both already >>>>>> required to power the signals. It uses a technology called Ethernet >>>>>> over >>>>>> power line, which allows information to be broadcast over power lines. >>>>>> >>>>>> The future is clear for Wall and his research team. They have >>>>>> established >>>>>> dates to deliver the engineering and expect field trials to commence in >>>>>> June. They are building prototypes supported by funds from the >>>>>> University >>>>>> Transportation Centers program, Idaho's Higher Education Research >>>>>> Council >>>>>> and their commercial partner, Campbell Company, who currently makes the >>>>>> accessible pedestrian signals that chirp and talk for the handicapped. >>>>>> >>>>>> "The signals we're building are more than prototypes. These devices >>>>>> actually can go into the field and work today," said Wall. "We're using >>>>>> existing infrastructure and communicating intelligence over it. >>>>>> It's >>>>>> cost effective, it simplifies the connection to two wires and it can be >>>>>> immediately installed in all the existing crosswalks in the country." >>>>>> >>>>>> If you would like more information, or to speak with the people >>>>>> involved, >>>>>> please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Kingery >>>>>> >>>>>> Science/Research Writer >>>>>> >>>>>> University of Idaho >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 208-885-9156 >>>>>> >>>>>> Cell: 614-570-3942 >>>>>> >>>>>> --~--~--------~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~--~-----~-- >>>>>> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic < >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/message/30601;_ylc=X3oDMTM1cW9sNTBoB >>>>>> F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA >>>>>> 2MDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4BHRwY0lkAzMwNjAx >>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Reply (via web post) < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZDMyaWlwBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEbXNnSWQDMzA2MDEEc2Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4?act=reply&messageNum=30601 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Start a new topic < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczRocDFtBF9TAzk3Mz >>>>>> U5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRw >>>>>> YwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> >>>>>> Messages < >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXBkdGpuBF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> bXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Files < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGgyamNsBF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZml >>>>>> sZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Photos < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM3YwMWpqBF9TAzk3 >>>>>> MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG >>>>>> hvdARzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4 >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Links < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOXBzcm5uBF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGl >>>>>> ua3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Database < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNGNzY2gyBF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> ZGIEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Polls < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWkwbXR1BF9TAzk3M >>>>>> zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9 >>>>>> sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTIyNjE3MzMxOA-- >>>>>> >>>>>>> | Members < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LCA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJka3I2cHMwBF9TAzk >>>>>> 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2MjYzNgRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxODkwNTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDb >>>>>> WJycwRzdGltZQMxMjI2MTczMzE4> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send >>>>>> a >>>>>> blank email to: >>>>>> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods >>>>>> >< >>>>>> http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r4vnrp6/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835 >>>>>> 568/D=groups/S=1705189052:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1226180518/L=/B=3w9FDkLaX9c >>>>>> -/J=1226173318658236/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo >>>>>> .com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/> >>>>>> Yahoo! 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Courtney On 11/16/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: > Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct > manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the > first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going > to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! > > Warmest, > Yolanda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Hi all, >> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >> >> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >> because they don't know what else to do. >> >> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >> >> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >> functional blindness. >> >> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >> or other because they only have impaired vision. >> >> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >> mutual advantage. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Heather Field >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Dezman, >> >> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >> cane >> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >> me >> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >> >> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >> for >> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >> answer, if not one I prefer. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>> than say >>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>> where I'm >>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>> as >>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>> speak. I >>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>> your >>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>> sight. >>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>> of >>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>> you >>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>> now. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>> legally >>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>> blind >>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>> you >>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>> either. And >>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>> you are >>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>> what >>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>> do >>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>> people >>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>> when >>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>> "well >>> they can hear some but >>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>> take >>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>> bit >>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>> people >>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>> print, >>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>> someone >>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>> what >>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>> up >>> on that a long time ago. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>> >>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>> >>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>> impaired >>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>> with >>> another >>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>> hearing >>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>> deafness >>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>> inability to >>> speak, >>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>> that >>> I do >>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>> that >>> certain >>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>> crossings >>> and >>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>> call >>> myself >>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>> individual to >>> call >>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>> blind >>> you are >>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>> find >>> myself >>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>> >>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>> much but am >>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>> >>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>> around. >>> Just as >>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>> we >>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>> reading the >>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>> all of you >>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>> residual >>> vision. >>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>> even know >>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>> others out >>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>> blindness. >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>> and >>> as >>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>> noticed >>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>> one. It >>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>> visually >>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>> people. >>> These >>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>> want to >>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>> person... >>> this >>>>> group is for you too! >>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>> fact >>> that we >>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>> that >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>> be >>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>> >>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>> blurred >>> and if >>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>> these >>> new >>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>> specific >>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>> the >>> most >>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>> "Attention >>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>> some sense >>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>> visually >>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>> terminology >>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>> family? >>>>> >>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>> to >>> other >>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>> subject line >>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>> to the NABS >>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>> Impaired >>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>> blindness >>>>> group of facebook! >>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>> group or >>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>> visually >>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>> also. I >>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>> example. >>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>> that >>> perhaps >>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>> and >>> blur >>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>> blind >>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>> as >>> solid >>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>>> >>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>> us >>> debate >>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>> what it >>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>> importance? >>>>> >>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>> >>>>> Janice >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>> nonmembers. >>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>> philosophy of the >>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>> their >>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>> them. I >>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>> blind. I felt >>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>> through >>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>> models, >>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>> is >>> simply >>>>>> a >>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>> promote NFB >>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>> philosophy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From graduate56 at juno.com Mon Nov 17 06:53:11 2008 From: graduate56 at juno.com (melissa R. Green) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:53:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <49207cc1.1c17400a.13ce.6ddf@mx.google.com> References: <20081116143108.ISCQ3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <49207cc1.1c17400a.13ce.6ddf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001801c94881$28bdd3c0$7a397b40$@com> Thank yo carrie! You put it out there in a really good way. Your thoughts give people something to really think about. Thanks for sharing. Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:04 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Hello All, I would like to interject my thoughts and experience with the terms we use, and the consequences thereof. I add mine as a sighted person and as an elected representative of (in the end in a practical and real manner) the nation's blind and low vision children and their families. Until my own son was eight we struggled and switched back and forth between partial, legal, and low. When we met the NFB we learned it was fine, acceptable, and accurate enough to just say blind. It was a relief to my son, and to me. It is what he has chosen, and I have followed, ever since. I would like to respond by going to some of Harry and Chris W.'s thoughts or points. On Harry's feeling: Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely legally blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely blind would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are visually impaired... My feelings: If we are thinking accuracy is primary...my thoughts are these. The definition of impaired from the American Heritage dictionary: To cause to diminish, as in strength, value, or quality...see synonyms at injure; the origins or root in Latin is the word for to worsen. In the use of the term "mere": mere means nothing more than specified: So Harry says, and others I have heard articulate the same, that using legally blind is saying nothing more than the legally blind person meets the legal definition. Saying it this way implies that they can see something. So they are not in reality blind. Mere is also defined as small or slight. Does this give an accurate answer to the public? This is my experience. People think legally blind means "not really". The law says, and I agree, it means, yes you are really; you are really in real and functional terms. It is this "not really" mentality that is one of the greatest causes of failure to succeed in education and employment and the realization of true independence for those who have 20/200 and worse or a field of less than 20 degrees. By definition in that definition, when you rely on it, you compete with less than 10% of what others have 100% of. My son has 20/400 measured long distance in acuity in a perfect clinic setting, with a total field cut of no vision below the nose, with some color loss, with a high need for light, with other blind spots, with a worse acuity in his central vision. The measured distance acuity alone in a perfect setting for contrast and light and no movement gives him a 95% loss from 20/20 just from the starting gate under, as I said, perfect conditions which only exist in a clinic setting. For near distance he can make things out, tell what they are fairly clearly, with light, and head tilting, and if the contrast is good, and the font is simple and over 16 font in size and he has magnification and he brings it up to within 3 to 6 inches of his face. His near vision is not sustainable for longer than very brief periods of use. So is it accurate to give someone the idea he is not really blind? Does the impact of this profound loss in his ability to function using primarily the sense of sight to accomplish everyday tasks get conveyed accurately by saying his sight is slightly, or nothing more than, diminished in strength, value and/or quality? Where to draw the line? Do we really have a responsibility to draw it exactly for everyone we meet? Is my son obligated to explain to everyone curious exactly how he sees? He has had no personal experience in comparing his vision to 20/20; that is the explanation sighted people try to reference from. How can he compare something he has no experience with? If they then come to some understanding from his description does that mean they understand how the next visually impaired, or low vision, or blind person sees? Must he constantly make sure everyone understands the difference between the ability to see (something) and tell exactly what it is? On the comparison with the deaf community. You should know that the deaf community itself struggles, often vehemently, between sign language, and cochlear implants, and learning to speak and read lips. There are strong and oppositional philosophies. Most deaf people can hear something, the question is can they accurately make out what that something is. Most blind people can see something, the question is can they accurately tell what that something is. I have never heard of a deaf child, or one hard of hearing, who had their hearing aids ripped out and told to leave them by the locker at school. I hear this all the time where blind children with some low vision especially, but "totals" too, are told to leave the cane by the door, in the locker, or not use it at all. Are deaf and hard of hearing children who may be considered "not really", denied sign language as much as "not really" considered blind children are denied Braille? And let's not kid ourselves, the blind children are denied Braille because primarily people around them want to consider them "not really" blind. This comes back to the stigmas of blindness. I see it on the faces of everyone I meet. If I say this child is blind, the look of concern is grave. And I use the term grave, as in serious, and death implied, purposefully. If I then add, well, legally blind, they display visible and audible senses of relief. The question is should they be relieved? It is that sense of relief that I fight everyday. Are deaf or hard of hearing persons considered obligated when speaking to say that they are legally qualified to say they are deaf? Do we have legally deaf, and legally using a wheelchair, qualifications? Is it faking it, and considered lying, for a person who can stand or walk a little to go about in a wheelchair and let others assume they cannot use their legs at all, not ever, in any way? Not all people who go about in a wheel chair are totally paralyzed from the waist down. What is their obligation to inform the public? Should they have a sign on the back of the wheelchair explaining when and how often they can use their legs? Something that indicates "not really" paralyzed? Why do people get incensed? I'll tell you why. Because if you are saying you are deaf, blind, or in a wheel chair, then I (typical non-disabled person) feel a measured amount of feeling sorry for you, and if you then say "not really" you have faked getting my sympathy to a much higher degree than I feel I am morally obligated to give you. How does someone go about getting the measurement of just how much they should feel sorry for someone else? This is the crux of the issue. It is not about adding visually impaired as much as it has been the deletion and avoidance of blindness. It is about wrongly giving some measured amount to the "not reallys" and giving some measure more automatically to the "reallys" based on the myths and legends about blindness. It is all about it being respectable to be blind. Does my son have some lack of understanding that the vision he has indeed has provided some real conveniences and pleasures? No. He is likely to lose it all, and in the next 5-10 years. Will he be blinder then? Not really, and yes really. Will he miss what he has, and the conveniences? Yes, really. Will he have any less ability to function and succeed, and enjoy life, and find love and happiness? No, not really. We measure these things often by perceptional or learned value. Even in race. Obama is 50% black, 50% white. Who speaks of him as a white man? In his physical characteristics he looks like a black man. My son is 50% Swedish and English, and 45% black and 5% Native American. If he picks one box to check on the form, does he lie by excluding the others? Does he always have to explain to everyone his full family tree? He is black, blind, and beautiful. He is also sighted and white and beautiful. He is also Blackfoot and Sioux and legally blind and beautiful. Any of these headlines would accurately describe him to some degree. He is Jordan. Totally unique. And all he is obligated to be is the best Jordan he can be. It is his internal characteristics that will matter the most. What he calls himself is his own right to call himself. That is what I have taught him; as long as he is not purposefully trying to fool anyone for some ulterior motive or denying calling himself something out of embarrassment or shame. That is also what I believe the NFB has taught him. Have they gone too far? I think not. Another Sunday's 52 cents worth at least. Smile. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1792 - Release Date: 11/16/2008 10:04 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: 11/16/2008 7:58 PM ____________________________________________________________ Click to consolidate debt and lower month expenses. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2PBGzM4bwwqUzRHlEbQV7tGYfLV1SldHEQg9W6AReBb25JX/ From weathertrooper at msn.com Tue Nov 18 07:30:04 2008 From: weathertrooper at msn.com (Ben Moore) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:30:04 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: Okay, here my take on what to call yourself if you're Blind/Legally Blind, etc.: when you hold out a cane, sighted people, on most occasions, will see you as Blind. Do you think the sighted stop to think about what the terms "Fully Blind, Legally Blind, Visually Impaired" mean? I doubt it! If you're out in public using a cane or have a guide dog, most sighted will instantly think, "he/she must be blind". Point here is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself; I walk the streets using a cane (sometimes w/ a sighted person guiding me if I'm in a location I don't know by heart)... but I wear glasses. Even though I'm Legally Blind, a lot of people think that cane equals blind. Sorry if this is offensive, but this terminology debate on what you should call yourself (in terms of amount of vision) is total BS. Yeah the NFB has pretty, uh, descriptions on what you should call yourself, but are you gonna let some orginization tell you how to feel about your level of blindness? Hell NO!!! Seriously, it feels to me that all this talk over how to describe your blindness is seperating us, not uniting us as one... From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 11:08:58 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:08:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><20081117002950.GA12119@yumi.bluecherry.net> <980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> Message-ID: <4E3936D05E1443C8BE0C6346C1587516@Dezman> Heather, Thanks for expanding on this knoledge from the literature. There's no doubt many applications for this approach and I will definitely add it to my arsenal of tools. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Hi all, > After long years of being discriminated against because of the > hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, > by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, > I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so > because I have found that using a term for which the general public > has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the > most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. > > When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally > blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with > others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their > questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, > well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not > really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to > get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to > tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without > relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people > may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the > matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns > about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much > vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or > visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my > abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision > or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to > help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much > more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others > because they don't know what else to do. > > It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep > asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, > because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop > asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later > date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly > met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you > see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. > What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come > up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to > me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer > that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. > It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want > to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, > confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, > I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most > people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from > them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and > it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and > if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine > reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, > I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. > > But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public > doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and > Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It > is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to > describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, > doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is > in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious > public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give > them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that > allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in > front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and > this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired > they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and > read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally > blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate > information about the nature of this person's particular version of > functional blindness. > > A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to > using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that > they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have > reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting > that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something > or other because they only have impaired vision. > > This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when > meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to > have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. > Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also > believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying > nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our > mutual advantage. > > Best regards, > > Heather Field > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Dezman, > > There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a > cane > and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against > me > on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. > > The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared > for > the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable > answer, if not one I prefer. > > Joseph > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >> than say >> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >> where I'm >> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >> as >> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >> speak. I >> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >> your >> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >> sight. >> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >> of >> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >> you >> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >> now. >> >> Cheers, >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >> legally >> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >> blind >> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >> you >> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >> either. And >> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >> you are >> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >> what >> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >> do >> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >> people >> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >> when >> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >> "well >> they can hear some but >> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >> take >> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >> bit >> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >> people >> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >> print, >> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >> someone >> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >> what >> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >> up >> on that a long time ago. >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >> From: Chris Westbrook >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> impaired >> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >> with >> another >> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >> hearing >> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >> deafness >> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >> inability to >> speak, >> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >> that >> I do >> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >> that >> certain >> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >> crossings >> and >> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >> call >> myself >> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >> individual to >> call >> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >> blind >> you are >> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >> find >> myself >> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >> much but am >> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >> around. >> Just as >> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >> we >> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >> reading the >> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >> all of you >> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >> residual >> vision. >> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >> even know >> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >> others out >> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >> blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>> and >> as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >> noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >> one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >> visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>> people. >> These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >> want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>> person... >> this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>> fact >> that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>> that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>> be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>> blurred >> and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>> these >> new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>> specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>> the >> most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >> "Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >> some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >> visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >> terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>> family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>> to >> other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >> subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >> to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >> blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>> group or >> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >> visually >> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >> also. I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >> example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>> that >> perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>> and >> blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>> blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>> as >> solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>> us >> debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >> what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >> importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >> nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >> philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>> their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >> them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >> blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >> impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >> through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >> models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>> is >> simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >> promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >> philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 13:28:44 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:28:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> Message-ID: <49217192.0807c00a.22c7.6a91@mx.google.com> Thank you so much Heather. This is what I have taught Jordan to do, steer away from exactly trying to describe the "how can you see?" as the most important issue. I found also that if it was tried to describe, since he could see some, the person was always still left with the idea that he could only do whatever it was since he had some vision. That is, they went away still thinking "well he couldn't do that if he was really blind". I also do what you describe with teachers all the time, and teach other parents to do the same, steering the conversation away from vision and to function. It is amazing to me how many teachers keep wanting to come back to amount of vision. It often is a continuing effort to bring them back to function. Especially they want to say the child will only need some thing like Braille in the distant future, when they are really blind. I steer them back and talk about function and get them to understand the child is really blind functionally right now. It works, sometimes with great effort and taking repeated conversations, but it works. Thanks for the practical and succinct sharing. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Hi all, After long years of being discriminated against because of the hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so because I have found that using a term for which the general public has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others because they don't know what else to do. It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate information about the nature of this person's particular version of functional blindness. A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something or other because they only have impaired vision. This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our mutual advantage. Best regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Dezman, There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a cane and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against me on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared for the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable answer, if not one I prefer. Joseph On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: > I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in > general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch > than say > the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances > where I'm > scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. > Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself > as > just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as > visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to > speak. I > don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's > your > motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the > public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of > sight. > This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function > of > how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off > you > are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this > concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling > now. > > Cheers, > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely > legally > blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely > blind > would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are > visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If > you > have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that > either. And > if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, > you are > still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter > what > you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within > yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to > do > alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other > people > choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, > when > someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the > ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, > "well > they can hear some but > they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can > take > anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a > bit > too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what > people > need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large > print, > what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because > someone > has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is > what > most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave > up > on that a long time ago. > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: > > From: Chris Westbrook > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > > Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > impaired > you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example > with > another > disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said > hearing > impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because > deafness > generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the > inability to > speak, > etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no > that > I do > not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept > that > certain > things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street > crossings > and > socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to > call > myself > hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired > individual to > call > themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally > blind > you are > visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I > find > myself > struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take > offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see > much but am > otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a > blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded > around. > Just as > we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), > we > wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > reading the > subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with > all of you > -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some > residual > vision. > Let's not push people away from our great organization before they > even know > who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find > others out > there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > blindness. >>> >>> ----- >>> Corbb O'Connor >>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>> >>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>> >>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>> and > as >>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently > noticed >>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good > one. It >>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as > visually >>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>> people. > These >>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not > want to >>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>> person... > this >>> group is for you too! >>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>> fact > that we >>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>> that > the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>> be >>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>> >>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>> blurred > and if >>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>> these > new >>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>> specific >>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>> the > most >>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > "Attention >>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes > some sense >>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as > visually >>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the > terminology >>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>> family? >>> >>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>> to > other >>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email > subject line >>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced > to the NABS >>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually > Impaired >>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new > blindness >>> group of facebook! >>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>> group or > person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as > visually > impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, > also. I >>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant > example. >>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>> that > perhaps >>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>> and > blur >>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>> blind >>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>> as > solid >>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>> >>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>> us > debate >>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and > what it >>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > importance? >>> >>> Thoughtfully yours, >>> >>> Janice >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>> To: "NABS list serve" >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> Karen and all, >>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > nonmembers. >>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > philosophy of the >>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word > "Blind" is sometimes a >>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>> their >>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > them. I >>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as > blind. I felt >>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > impaired". The acceptance >>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes > through >>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > models, >>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>> is > simply >>>> a >>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > promote NFB >>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > philosophy. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcas t.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Mon Nov 17 15:34:13 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:34:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081117153243.PWYQ19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I definitely agree!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:48:32 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >Thanks; this really is an excellent alternative for socializing, >especially if you don't, as you pointed out, want to divulge personal >history to virtual strangers. >Courtney >On 11/16/08, Yolanda Garcia wrote: >> Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct >> manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the >> first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going >> to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! >> Warmest, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Hi all, >>> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >>> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >>> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >>> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >>> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >>> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >>> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >>> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >>> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >>> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >>> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >>> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >>> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >>> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >>> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >>> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >>> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >>> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >>> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >>> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >>> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >>> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >>> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >>> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >>> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >>> because they don't know what else to do. >>> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >>> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >>> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >>> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >>> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >>> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >>> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >>> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >>> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >>> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >>> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >>> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >>> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >>> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >>> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >>> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >>> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >>> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >>> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >>> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >>> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >>> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >>> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >>> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >>> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >>> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >>> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >>> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >>> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >>> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >>> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >>> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >>> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >>> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >>> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >>> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >>> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >>> functional blindness. >>> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >>> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >>> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >>> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >>> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >>> or other because they only have impaired vision. >>> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >>> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >>> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >>> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >>> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >>> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >>> mutual advantage. >>> Best regards, >>> Heather Field >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Dezman, >>> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >>> cane >>> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >>> me >>> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >>> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >>> for >>> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >>> answer, if not one I prefer. >>> Joseph >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>>> than say >>>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>>> where I'm >>>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>>> as >>>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>>> speak. I >>>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>>> your >>>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>>> sight. >>>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>>> of >>>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>>> you >>>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>>> now. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dezman >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>>> legally >>>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>>> blind >>>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>>> you >>>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>>> either. And >>>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>>> you are >>>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>>> what >>>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>>> do >>>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>>> people >>>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>>> when >>>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>>> "well >>>> they can hear some but >>>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>>> take >>>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>>> bit >>>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>>> people >>>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>>> print, >>>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>>> someone >>>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>>> what >>>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>>> up >>>> on that a long time ago. >>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>>> impaired >>>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>>> with >>>> another >>>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>>> hearing >>>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>>> deafness >>>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>>> inability to >>>> speak, >>>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>>> that >>>> I do >>>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>>> that >>>> certain >>>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>>> crossings >>>> and >>>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>>> call >>>> myself >>>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>>> individual to >>>> call >>>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>>> blind >>>> you are >>>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>>> find >>>> myself >>>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>>> much but am >>>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>>> Joseph >>>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>>> around. >>>> Just as >>>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>>> we >>>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>>> reading the >>>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>>> all of you >>>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>>> residual >>>> vision. >>>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>>> even know >>>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>>> others out >>>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>>> blindness. >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>>> and >>>> as >>>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>>> noticed >>>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>>> one. It >>>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>>> people. >>>> These >>>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>>> want to >>>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>>> person... >>>> this >>>>>> group is for you too! >>>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>>> fact >>>> that we >>>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>>> that >>>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>>> be >>>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>>> blurred >>>> and if >>>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>>> these >>>> new >>>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>>> specific >>>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>>> the >>>> most >>>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>> "Attention >>>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>>> some sense >>>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>>> terminology >>>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>>> family? >>>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>>> to >>>> other >>>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>>> subject line >>>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>>> to the NABS >>>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>>> Impaired >>>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>>> blindness >>>>>> group of facebook! >>>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>>> group or >>>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>>> visually >>>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>>> also. I >>>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>>> example. >>>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>>> that >>>> perhaps >>>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>>> and >>>> blur >>>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>>> blind >>>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>>> as >>>> solid >>>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>>> us >>>> debate >>>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>>> what it >>>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>>> importance? >>>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>>> Janice >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>> nonmembers. >>>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>> philosophy of the >>>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>>> them. I >>>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>>> blind. I felt >>>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>>> through >>>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>>> models, >>>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>>> is >>>> simply >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>>> promote NFB >>>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>> philosophy. >>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d ezman%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath er%40comcast.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia% 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitt en%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 21:36:29 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:36:29 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <4E3936D05E1443C8BE0C6346C1587516@Dezman> References: <980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> <4E3936D05E1443C8BE0C6346C1587516@Dezman> Message-ID: <20081117213629.GB56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> It does seem to provide an interesting approach, doesn't it? It neatly removes the preconception and opens a useful dialogue. You are then free to explain as much or as little as you like and leave it at that. Those who won't listen would not anyway. Those who are open will gain new perspective. This all works out. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:08:58AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Heather, > Thanks for expanding on this knoledge from the literature. There's no > doubt many applications for this approach and I will definitely add it to > my arsenal of tools. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Hi all, >> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >> >> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >> because they don't know what else to do. >> >> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >> >> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >> functional blindness. >> >> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >> or other because they only have impaired vision. >> >> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >> mutual advantage. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Heather Field >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Dezman, >> >> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >> cane >> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >> me >> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >> >> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >> for >> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >> answer, if not one I prefer. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>> than say >>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>> where I'm >>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>> as >>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>> speak. I >>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>> your >>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>> sight. >>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>> of >>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>> you >>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>> now. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>> legally >>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>> blind >>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>> you >>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>> either. And >>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>> you are >>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>> what >>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>> do >>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>> people >>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>> when >>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>> "well >>> they can hear some but >>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>> take >>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>> bit >>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>> people >>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>> print, >>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>> someone >>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>> what >>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>> up >>> on that a long time ago. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>> >>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>> >>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>> impaired >>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>> with >>> another >>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>> hearing >>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>> deafness >>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>> inability to >>> speak, >>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>> that >>> I do >>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>> that >>> certain >>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>> crossings >>> and >>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>> call >>> myself >>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>> individual to >>> call >>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>> blind >>> you are >>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>> find >>> myself >>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>> >>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>> much but am >>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>> >>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>> around. >>> Just as >>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>> we >>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>> reading the >>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>> all of you >>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>> residual >>> vision. >>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>> even know >>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>> others out >>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>> blindness. >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>> and >>> as >>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>> noticed >>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>> one. It >>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>> visually >>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>> people. >>> These >>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>> want to >>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>> person... >>> this >>>>> group is for you too! >>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>> fact >>> that we >>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>> that >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>> be >>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>> >>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>> blurred >>> and if >>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>> these >>> new >>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>> specific >>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>> the >>> most >>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>> "Attention >>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>> some sense >>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>> visually >>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>> terminology >>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>> family? >>>>> >>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>> to >>> other >>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>> subject line >>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>> to the NABS >>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>> Impaired >>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>> blindness >>>>> group of facebook! >>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>> group or >>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>> visually >>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>> also. I >>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>> example. >>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>> that >>> perhaps >>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>> and >>> blur >>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>> blind >>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>> as >>> solid >>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>>> >>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>> us >>> debate >>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>> what it >>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>> importance? >>>>> >>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>> >>>>> Janice >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>> nonmembers. >>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>> philosophy of the >>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>> their >>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>> them. I >>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>> blind. I felt >>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>> through >>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>> models, >>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>> is >>> simply >>>>>> a >>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>> promote NFB >>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>> philosophy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 21:46:38 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:46:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <405111.79694.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20081116052249.GA6319@yumi.bluecherry.net> <405111.79694.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081117214638.GC56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people you're impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, "But I am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their minds were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out of the two - blind and alternative. >  >Harry > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > >Harry, > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >you've >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >or you'd best not say anything. > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet >we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on >our termonology. >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to >speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I >do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings >and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to >call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you >are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find >myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much >but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even >know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >and >>as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >the >>most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >to >>other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >announced >>to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. >I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >as >>solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >us >>debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one >of >>them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person >goes >>through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind >role >>models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. >It is >>simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 21:55:47 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:55:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081117215547.GD56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> I've expressed my (admittedly pilfered) theory before that blind people hate each other. We seem to compare ourselves to one another to determine who is more or less independent or well-adapted. Those who are less adapted are as an embarrassment to us because they make us look bad. Those who are more adapted are equally embarrassing because we feel inadequate by comparison because we're not some kind of super-blind person who can do the things they do. Most of the responses I've gotten to this theory indicate that there appears to be something to it, anecdotally at least. Given that, I had to wonder if the reason why we have a deaf culture, but not a blind culture, is that we're too busy comparing our differences to notice our sameness. This seems to be something we would want to change, in my opinion. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:30:04PM -0800, Ben Moore wrote: >Okay, here my take on what to call yourself if you're Blind/Legally Blind, etc.: when you hold out a cane, sighted people, on most occasions, will see you as Blind. Do you think the sighted stop to think about what the terms "Fully Blind, Legally Blind, Visually Impaired" mean? I doubt it! If you're out in public using a cane or have a guide dog, most sighted will instantly think, "he/she must be blind". Point here is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself; I walk the streets using a cane (sometimes w/ a sighted person guiding me if I'm in a location I don't know by heart)... but I wear glasses. Even though I'm Legally Blind, a lot of people think that cane equals blind. > >Sorry if this is offensive, but this terminology debate on what you should call yourself (in terms of amount of vision) is total BS. Yeah the NFB has pretty, uh, descriptions on what you should call yourself, but are you gonna let some orginization tell you how to feel about your level of blindness? Hell NO!!! > >Seriously, it feels to me that all this talk over how to describe your blindness is seperating us, not uniting us as one... >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From tagrig at verizon.net Mon Nov 17 23:38:45 2008 From: tagrig at verizon.net (tatyana) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:38:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? References: <20081117215547.GD56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Hi all, I've recently asked that question in other mailing lists and now want to try the students one. Thank you all who responded me from other lists, I assume you can be here as well. Is anyone studying in massage school in Washington d.c./ Maryland suburbs? I'm thinking about going to massage school and need an advise how to choose one and just talk about all of those things related massage. I have been at Potomac massage training institute for open house last week and found that two blind students are currently studying there. They're names are Andy and Erica. If you're, guys, in this list, please respond me, I'll appreciate your help and sharing your experiences with me. And if anyone in the list who is attending massage training, please let me know, I would like to talk with you. Please e- mail me at tagrig at verizon.net Thank you very much in advance. Tatyana. From harryhogue at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 01:52:02 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:52:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <20081117214638.GC56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, and I wouldn't ever say i.   You make a lot of sense.  What really gets me is that I really am not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter.  They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really?  Cutting Christmas trees, for example.  I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help?   Harry   P.S.  I really want to believe, I really, really do. --- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people you're impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, "But I am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their minds were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out of the two - blind and alternative. >  >Harry > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > >Harry, > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >you've >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >or you'd best not say anything. > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet >we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on >our termonology. >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to >speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I >do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings >and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to >call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you >are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find >myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much >but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even >know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >and >>as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >the >>most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >to >>other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >announced >>to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. >I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >as >>solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >us >>debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one >of >>them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person >goes >>through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind >role >>models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. >It is >>simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From jonte711 at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 02:21:35 2008 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:21:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <4922267e.e203be0a.7e66.ffffa76c@mx.google.com> Well, I really want to believe it too, but I honestly don't think a totally blind person can cut down a Christmas tree, or design and build an elaborate house, or any other task involving intense manual labor with no assistance whatsoever. -----Original Message----- From: Harry Hogue Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, and I wouldn't ever say i.   You make a lot of sense.  What really gets me is that I really am not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter.  They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really?  Cutting Christmas trees, for example.  I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help?   Harry   P.S.  I really want to believe, I really, really do. --- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people you're impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, "But I am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their minds were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out of the two - blind and alternative. >  >Harry > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > >Harry, > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >you've >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >or you'd best not say anything. > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about the >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet >we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative."  I >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on >our termonology. >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to >speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I >do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings >and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to >call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you >are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find >myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much >but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even >know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >and >>as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >the >>most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >to >>other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >announced >>to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. >I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >as >>solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >us >>debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one >of >>them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person >goes >>through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind >role >>models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. >It is >>simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 02:41:38 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:41:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20081117214638.GC56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081118024138.GJ56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Harry, We cut down trees without sighted help while I was at the Colorado Center. We also had snowball fights. Those were fun because you had to wait for your intended target to make some noise, then splat! That is what our centers do--they provide the opportunity to see for yourself that yes, a blind person can do all of those things. That's one of the reasons why they are so stressful for students--you go in knowing for sure that you can't possibly do it, and you're expected to do it anyway. Then you find out that you can, because you just did, and you know how to do it better next time. The skills themselves are fairly basic. The application, that's the thing that requires so much time to learn. On the plus side, while learning, you get to practice and master the skills. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:52:02PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. >  >You make a lot of sense.  What really gets me is that I really am not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter.  They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really?  Cutting Christmas trees, for example.  I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help? >  >Harry >  >P.S.  I really want to believe, I really, really do. > >--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM > >That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >you're >impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >"But I >am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >minds >were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. > >All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think >politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call >the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out >of the two - blind and alternative. >>  >>Harry >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >wrote: >> >>From: T. Joseph Carter >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM >> >>Harry, >> >>I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >>people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >>Morally, that seems wrong to me. >> >>I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >>know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >>you've >>got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >>or you'd best not say anything. >> >>Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >>everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >>number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >>road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* >> >>Joseph >> >>On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about >the >>word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >>correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >but yet >>we also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative."  I >>understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >techniques" >>does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >are on >>our termonology. >>> >>> >>>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: >>> >>>From: Chris Westbrook >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>> >>>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>impaired >>>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >>another >>>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing >>>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >to >>speak, >>>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I >>do >>>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >>certain >>>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings >>and >>>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >>myself >>>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >to >>call >>>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >you >>are >>>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >find >>myself >>>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>> >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>> >>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take >>>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much >>but am >>>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>> >>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >wrote: >>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >was a >>>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >>Just as >>>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>reading the >>>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >all >>of you >>>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >>vision. >>>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >even >>know >>>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others >>out >>>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>blindness. >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board >>and >>>as >>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently >>>noticed >>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >be a >>good >>>one. It >>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >as >>>visually >>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>people. >>>These >>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not >>>want to >>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>person... >>>this >>>>> group is for you too! >>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>fact >>>that we >>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >believing >>that >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to >>be >>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>> >>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>blurred >>>and if >>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >get >>these >>>new >>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>specific >>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >to be >>the >>>most >>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>"Attention >>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >makes >>>some sense >>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify >>as >>>visually >>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >>>terminology >>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>family? >>>>> >>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer >>to >>>other >>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >email >>>subject line >>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >>announced >>>to the NABS >>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >>>Impaired >>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >"new >>>blindness >>>>> group of facebook! >>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>group or >>>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >>>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >also. >>I >>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant >>>example. >>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>that >>>perhaps >>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >lax >>and >>>blur >>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >all >>blind >>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not >>as >>>solid >>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >Federation...?> >>>>> >>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among >>us >>>debate >>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our >>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and >>>what it >>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >of >>>importance? >>>>> >>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>> >>>>> Janice >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>nonmembers. >>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>philosophy of the >>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >word >>>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >accept >>their >>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >one >>of >>>them. I >>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >as >>>blind. I felt >>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>impaired". The acceptance >>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >person >>goes >>>through >>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >blind >>role >>>models, >>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >short. >>It is >>>simply >>>>>> a >>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >can >>>promote NFB >>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>philosophy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From henryfvasquez at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 02:53:07 2008 From: henryfvasquez at gmail.com (Henry Vasquez) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:53:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. Message-ID: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to My Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los Angeles Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with you any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 Henry Vasquez. YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. Live life as if there is no tomorrow. Laugh as if no one is listening. Dance as if no one is watching. Love as if you have never been hurt. SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 18 02:55:57 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:55:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9ECF6CCC17264D8FA3899756A4C2A16C@Ashley> Jessica, Which nfb center are you trying to get to? From the wording I assume you are in the proccess of obtaining approval from rehab to go. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica R" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > Hi: > I am trying to get to one of the training centers. I was wondering if > anyone who is or has attended one of them can tell us why you made the > choice you did. Thank you. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3615 (20081115) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 03:00:00 2008 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:00:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Harry, When I was a student at the Louisiana Center, we all did an activity in which we got to cut down Christmas trees either totally blind or wearing sleepshades. So yes, it can be done. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter. They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really? Cutting Christmas trees, for example. I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help? Harry P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. --- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people you're impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, "But I am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their minds were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. Joseph On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out of the two - blind and alternative. > >Harry > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > >Harry, > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >you've >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >or you'd best not say anything. > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about the >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, but yet >we also insist that the techniques we use be called "alternative." I >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute techniques" >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we are on >our termonology. >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >impaired >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >another >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said hearing >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability to >speak, >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no that I >do >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >certain >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street crossings >and >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >myself >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual to >call >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind you >are >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I find >myself >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see much >but am >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >Just as >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >reading the >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with all >of you >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >vision. >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they even >know >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find others >out >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >blindness. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >and >>as >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>noticed >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a >good >>one. It >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>visually >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >people. >>These >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>want to >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >person... >>this >>>> group is for you too! >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >fact >>that we >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >that >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >be >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >blurred >>and if >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >these >>new >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >specific >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >the >>most >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>"Attention >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>some sense >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify >as >>visually >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>terminology >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >family? >>>> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >to >>other >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>subject line >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >announced >>to the NABS >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>Impaired >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>blindness >>>> group of facebook! >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >group or >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as visually >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, also. >I >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>example. >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >that >>perhaps >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >and >>blur >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >blind >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >as >>solid >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >us >>debate >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>what it >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>importance? >>>> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>> >>>> Janice >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Karen and all, >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>nonmembers. >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>philosophy of the >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >their >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one >of >>them. I >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>blind. I felt >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>impaired". The acceptance >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person >goes >>through >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind >role >>models, >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. >It is >>simply >>>>> a >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>promote NFB >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>philosophy. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Tue Nov 18 03:10:25 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:10:25 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081118030852.CIVH3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Blind people can do things that sighted people can do just as well or perhaps even better... They might do it in a different way, but at the end it's done. I would think that blind people can cut Christmas trees just as well as sighted people. Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Harry Hogue To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:52:02 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. >  >You make a lot of sense.  What really gets me is that I really am not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the matter.  They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they really?  Cutting Christmas trees, for example.  I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help? >  >Harry >  >P.S.  I really want to believe, I really, really do. >--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >From: T. Joseph Carter Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM >That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >you're >impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >"But I >am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >minds >were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. >All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. >Joseph >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think >politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about why we call >the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree with out >of the two - blind and alternative. >>  >>Harry >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM >>Harry, >>I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >>people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >>Morally, that seems wrong to me. >>I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >>know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >>you've >>got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >>or you'd best not say anything. >>Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >>everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >>number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >>road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* >>Joseph >>On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >>>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about >the >>word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >>correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >but yet >>we also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative."  I >>understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >techniques" >>does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >are on >>our termonology. >>>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>>From: Chris Westbrook >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>impaired >>>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >>another >>>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing >>>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >>>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >to >>speak, >>>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I >>do >>>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >>certain >>>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings >>and >>>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >>myself >>>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >to >>call >>>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >you >>are >>>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >find >>myself >>>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take >>>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much >>but am >>>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>> Joseph >>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >wrote: >>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >was a >>>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >>Just as >>>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >>>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>reading the >>>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >all >>of you >>>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >>vision. >>>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >even >>know >>>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others >>out >>>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>blindness. >>>>> ----- >>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board >>and >>>as >>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently >>>noticed >>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >be a >>good >>>one. It >>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >as >>>visually >>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>people. >>>These >>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not >>>want to >>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>person... >>>this >>>>> group is for you too! >>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>fact >>>that we >>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >believing >>that >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to >>be >>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>blurred >>>and if >>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >get >>these >>>new >>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>specific >>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >to be >>the >>>most >>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>"Attention >>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >makes >>>some sense >>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify >>as >>>visually >>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the >>>terminology >>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>family? >>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer >>to >>>other >>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >email >>>subject line >>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >>announced >>>to the NABS >>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually >>>Impaired >>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >"new >>>blindness >>>>> group of facebook! >>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>group or >>>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually >>>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >also. >>I >>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant >>>example. >>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>that >>>perhaps >>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >lax >>and >>>blur >>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >all >>blind >>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not >>as >>>solid >>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >Federation...? >>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among >>us >>>debate >>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our >>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and >>>what it >>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >of >>>importance? >>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>> Janice >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>nonmembers. >>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>philosophy of the >>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >word >>>"Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >accept >>their >>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >one >>of >>>them. I >>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >as >>>blind. I felt >>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>impaired". The acceptance >>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >person >>goes >>>through >>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >blind >>role >>>models, >>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >short. >>It is >>>simply >>>>>> a >>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >can >>>promote NFB >>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>philosophy. >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu e%40yahoo..com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogu e%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 18 03:24:58 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:24:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] research methods References: <001d01c93a34$8bd014b0$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4D39B58205DE45FEA80E429F87A30537@Ashley> Serena, Research is a struggle for me. You say you used librarians to find books. Did you have to meet one to one for this? Books are hard copy sources and require readers. I am finding I had to use books as well for my senior paper on child obesity. Articles will focus on one thing and one study whereas books have a little of everything: causes, prevalence, and treatment. So once you have the book(s) how do you direct the reader to get what you want? I've asked them to read contents and headings so far but its so challenging. For instance we read ten pages of a chapter before I realized it wasn't going to be useful. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods >I used the library data bases. Proquest Direct and Ebscohost are pretty >accessible. If the articles were relatively short, I read them all the way >through with Jaws, but if they were really long, I used readers. The >librarians often helped me find books. That often helped, so I wouldn't >have to use readers for that. > > Serena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] research methods > > >> Hi all, >> >> I wanted some more ideas on this. Then I'll have a sheet with ideas for >> myself and others wo ask me. I am about to begin a big research paper >> for my senior class. All seniors do this to demonstrate critical >> thinking, organization and writing skills. Research has been quite >> challenging. I use readers a lot but its hard to communicate what I am >> looking for. Much research is at the library and books and some other >> matterial is not accessible. So my questions. >> >> Do you use your school's databases? What ones are jaws friendly? Its >> been my experience that databases are not very accessible. There are >> lots of boxes and info before jaws reads the titles of articles. In an >> article I'm sure you read the abstract first to determine relevance. I >> do as wel. >> >> How do you skim the article for relevant info? Or perhaps you read it >> all? Scholarly articles are big, about twenty pages long on average from >> my experience. With jaws or a reader, skipping info is hard since I don't >> know what I'm looking for exactly. >> How do you cite pages? Does someone read you the page numbers as well? >> This has been problematic for me. I write notes but don't know later >> what page it was on and cannot skim the article for that info. >> >> Have you used the librarians for help? If so, what role did they play? >> Did you ask them to search for you and they read you the titles of >> articles/books? I have used them and they pointed me to the right >> databases and card catalog for books but also served as a reader sort of >> as we gathered info. >> >> I find research frustrating when you think something sounds great and >> read it but then its not so good. I think this happens to all students, >> but since it takes longer for us its more frustrating. >> >> Any ideas are appreciated. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3567 (20081029) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3568 (20081030) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Nov 18 03:30:29 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:30:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] research methods References: <001d01c93a34$8bd014b0$0201a8c0@Serene><4ed9a39a0810300654m2f673a14p5a4513261ed4be9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F9CEB39D44D4FA3AF70E280FBD97804@Ashley> Lauren, Can you explain the skim feature? Also is it available in Openbook 7? Next I found I have to use books since articles are so specific; trying to write on child obesity. Any tips on working with readers and books would be useful. Its so much easier to ask them to read a textbook since its straight reading then with well organized headings and bold terms often. How do I get them to look for what I need? Do I just ask them to skim for key words in a section or check the index? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Tuchman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > Hi Ashley, > > I apologize if this has been mentioned already as I have not caught up on > the entire thread. I, too, am an Open Book user. If you download version > 8.0 from the FS web site, it does have a skim feature. There is also a > virtual printer which will convert a pdf file to an accessible text > document. hth! > Lauren > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > > >> Corbb, >> >> I like your idea to read the first few paragraphs and last few paragraphs >> of the article. I've done that with a reader. I know jaws can go by >> paragraph in word as well. I think I'll use your strategy of one >> document >> for each source. My note files are big and then I often don't know what >> notes came from wich source even though I label it on top before writing. >> Its just that when reading further down in the document I forget what >> source it is. If its named at the top of the document maybe this will >> help. >> >> I don't use Kurzweil but do have Openbook. Is there a similar feature in >> it? If so how do you use it? Many database files are in PDF. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Corbb O'Connor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods >> >> >>> This will be brief because I am running to class in a moment. If you >>> use Kurzweil, I open the articles in Adobe Reader, then print to "KESI >>> Virtual Printer"--installed when you install K1000. The page numbers >>> then appear at the top or bottom of the Kurzweil pages, as those are >>> printed on each page of the journal. There's an option in K1000 to >>> "review" or "skim" or something like that -- basically it reads the >>> first sentence of each paragraph. I read the first few paragraphs of >>> the article, the last few paragraphs of the article, and the first >>> sentence of each paragraph. That usually tells me whether the article >>> will be helpful -- if so, then I find parts that seemed of use and >>> read those. >>> >>> I use a magnification program, not JAWS, so I am not sure about >>> database accessbility. >>> >>> I am trying a new strategy for notes -- a new Word document for each >>> source, and then later blend those together into an outline of quotes, >>> paraphrases, etc. Then it's writing time! >>> >>> Good luck. >>> Corbb >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Serena wrote: >>>> I used the library data bases. Proquest Direct and Ebscohost are >>>> pretty >>>> accessible. If the articles were relatively short, I read them all the >>>> way >>>> through with Jaws, but if they were really long, I used readers. The >>>> librarians often helped me find books. That often helped, so I >>>> wouldn't >>>> have to use readers for that. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] research methods >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I wanted some more ideas on this. Then I'll have a sheet with ideas >>>>> for >>>>> myself and others wo ask me. I am about to begin a big research paper >>>>> for >>>>> my senior class. All seniors do this to demonstrate critical >>>>> thinking, >>>>> organization and writing skills. Research has been quite challenging. >>>>> I >>>>> use readers a lot but its hard to communicate what I am looking for. >>>>> Much >>>>> research is at the library and books and some other matterial is not >>>>> accessible. So my questions. >>>>> >>>>> Do you use your school's databases? What ones are jaws friendly? Its >>>>> been my experience that databases are not very accessible. There are >>>>> lots >>>>> of boxes and info before jaws reads the titles of articles. In an >>>>> article >>>>> I'm sure you read the abstract first to determine relevance. I do as >>>>> wel. >>>>> >>>>> How do you skim the article for relevant info? Or perhaps you read it >>>>> all? Scholarly articles are big, about twenty pages long on average >>>>> from my >>>>> experience. With jaws or a reader, skipping info is hard since I don't >>>>> know >>>>> what I'm looking for exactly. >>>>> How do you cite pages? Does someone read you the page numbers as >>>>> well? >>>>> This has been problematic for me. I write notes but don't know later >>>>> what >>>>> page it was on and cannot skim the article for that info. >>>>> >>>>> Have you used the librarians for help? If so, what role did they >>>>> play? >>>>> Did you ask them to search for you and they read you the titles of >>>>> articles/books? I have used them and they pointed me to the right >>>>> databases >>>>> and card catalog for books but also served as a reader sort of as we >>>>> gathered info. >>>>> >>>>> I find research frustrating when you think something sounds great and >>>>> read >>>>> it but then its not so good. I think this happens to all students, >>>>> but >>>>> since it takes longer for us its more frustrating. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas are appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3567 (20081029) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3570 (20081030) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ltuchman1%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3571 (20081030) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > From beckyasabo at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 03:39:44 2008 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (beckysabo ) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:39:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? In-Reply-To: References: <20081117215547.GD56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Hello Tatyana, My name is becky sabo. I went through massage school in Michigan. I can talk to you off list if you have any questions. My email address is beckyasabo at gmail.com and I just want to let any one no I had to redue msn so I lost all my contacts. So if you were talking to me you can email them to my email address at beckyasabo at gmail.com Sincerely Becky sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tatyana Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? Hi all, I've recently asked that question in other mailing lists and now want to try the students one. Thank you all who responded me from other lists, I assume you can be here as well. Is anyone studying in massage school in Washington d.c./ Maryland suburbs? I'm thinking about going to massage school and need an advise how to choose one and just talk about all of those things related massage. I have been at Potomac massage training institute for open house last week and found that two blind students are currently studying there. They're names are Andy and Erica. If you're, guys, in this list, please respond me, I'll appreciate your help and sharing your experiences with me. And if anyone in the list who is attending massage training, please let me know, I would like to talk with you. Please e- mail me at tagrig at verizon.net Thank you very much in advance. Tatyana. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1795 - Release Date: 11/17/2008 5:24 PM From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 04:10:18 2008 From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:10:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology References: <449082.60317.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><20081117002950.GA12119@yumi.bluecherry.net><980B219542864020B39FF266D014BB36@heathersony> <026001c94877$8ee63750$0201a8c0@yolanda> Message-ID: <006901c94933$91af6300$f54fa962@Jessica> I love it!! I am going to try using that term as well!! The only thing I would wonder is, aren't these people going to just narrow in on the word blind and therefore continue to treat me like an invilid? It is my experience that if you say any other word except blind, people back off. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yolanda Garcia" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct > manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the > first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going > to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! > > Warmest, > Yolanda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >> Hi all, >> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >> >> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >> because they don't know what else to do. >> >> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >> >> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >> functional blindness. >> >> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >> or other because they only have impaired vision. >> >> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >> mutual advantage. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Heather Field >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> Dezman, >> >> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >> cane >> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >> me >> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >> >> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >> for >> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >> answer, if not one I prefer. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>> than say >>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>> where I'm >>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>> as >>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>> speak. I >>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>> your >>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>> sight. >>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>> of >>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>> you >>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>> now. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>> legally >>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>> blind >>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>> you >>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>> either. And >>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>> you are >>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>> what >>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>> do >>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>> people >>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>> when >>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>> "well >>> they can hear some but >>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>> take >>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>> bit >>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>> people >>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>> print, >>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>> someone >>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>> what >>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>> up >>> on that a long time ago. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>> >>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>> >>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>> impaired >>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>> with >>> another >>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>> hearing >>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>> deafness >>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>> inability to >>> speak, >>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>> that >>> I do >>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>> that >>> certain >>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>> crossings >>> and >>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>> call >>> myself >>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>> individual to >>> call >>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>> blind >>> you are >>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>> find >>> myself >>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> >>> >>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>> >>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>> much but am >>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>> >>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>> around. >>> Just as >>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>> we >>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>> reading the >>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>> all of you >>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>> residual >>> vision. >>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>> even know >>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>> others out >>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>> blindness. >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>> and >>> as >>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>> noticed >>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>> one. It >>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>> visually >>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>> people. >>> These >>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>> want to >>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>> person... >>> this >>>>> group is for you too! >>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>> fact >>> that we >>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>> that >>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>> be >>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>> >>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>> blurred >>> and if >>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>> these >>> new >>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>> specific >>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>> the >>> most >>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>> "Attention >>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>> some sense >>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>> visually >>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>> terminology >>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>> family? >>>>> >>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>> to >>> other >>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>> subject line >>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>> to the NABS >>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>> Impaired >>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>> blindness >>>>> group of facebook! >>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>> group or >>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>> visually >>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>> also. I >>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>> example. >>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>> that >>> perhaps >>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>> and >>> blur >>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>> blind >>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>> as >>> solid >>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...?> >>>>> >>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>> us >>> debate >>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>> what it >>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>> importance? >>>>> >>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>> >>>>> Janice >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>> nonmembers. >>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>> philosophy of the >>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>> their >>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>> them. I >>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>> blind. I felt >>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>> through >>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>> models, >>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>> is >>> simply >>>>>> a >>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>> promote NFB >>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>> philosophy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com From jraichle at carthage.edu Tue Nov 18 04:28:35 2008 From: jraichle at carthage.edu (Jessica R) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:28:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9ECF6CCC17264D8FA3899756A4C2A16C@Ashley> Message-ID: <87F0B0F51DE24CE3967C8565D286A886@D6RYFF31> I am looking at either Colorado or Blind Inc. It's a bear of a fight! Stupid government doesn't want to do what they say they do! From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 04:30:09 2008 From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:30:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? References: <20081117215547.GD56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <015d01c94936$57807db0$f54fa962@Jessica> I am not a massage student, but live in northern Virginia and would be more than happy to contribute to your educational experience and be a guinea pig! *smile* ----- Original Message ----- From: "tatyana" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? > Hi all, > I've recently asked that question in other mailing lists and now want to > try the students one. Thank you all who responded me from other lists, I > assume you can be here as well. > > Is anyone studying in massage school in Washington d.c./ Maryland > suburbs? > I'm thinking about going to massage school and need an advise how to > choose one and just talk about all of those things related massage. > > I have been at Potomac massage training institute for open house last week > and found that two blind students are currently studying there. They're > names are Andy and Erica. If you're, guys, in this list, please respond > me, > I'll appreciate your help and sharing your experiences with me. And if > anyone > in the list who is attending massage training, please let me know, I > would like to > talk with you. Please e- mail me at > tagrig at verizon.net > > Thank you very much in advance. > Tatyana. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 04:57:04 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:57:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? References: <20081117215547.GD56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <001d01c9493a$1b2b6790$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Hi I am currently atting school for massage at my local community college in New jersey. If you have any more questions feel free to email me at raniaismail04 at gmail.com Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "tatyana" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: [nabs-l] is anyone massage student? > Hi all, > I've recently asked that question in other mailing lists and now want to > try the students one. Thank you all who responded me from other lists, I > assume you can be here as well. > > Is anyone studying in massage school in Washington d.c./ Maryland > suburbs? > I'm thinking about going to massage school and need an advise how to > choose one and just talk about all of those things related massage. > > I have been at Potomac massage training institute for open house last week > and found that two blind students are currently studying there. They're > names are Andy and Erica. If you're, guys, in this list, please respond > me, > I'll appreciate your help and sharing your experiences with me. And if > anyone > in the list who is attending massage training, please let me know, I > would like to > talk with you. Please e- mail me at > tagrig at verizon.net > > Thank you very much in advance. > Tatyana. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Tue Nov 18 05:35:16 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:35:16 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <20081118053342.BCTG19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I have noticed that a lot of people use a different tone when talking to us; like we're babies or we'r old or... I was wondering how you guys deal with it. I just ignore it, but sometimes it's overwhelming and I get really mad when I'm alone or with friends who treat me equaally. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jessica Kostiw" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:10:18 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I love it!! I am going to try using that term as well!! The only thing I >would wonder is, aren't these people going to just narrow in on the word >blind and therefore continue to treat me like an invilid? It is my >experience that if you say any other word except blind, people back off. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Yolanda Garcia" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:44 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct >> manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the >> first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going >> to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! >> Warmest, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Hi all, >>> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >>> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >>> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >>> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >>> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >>> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >>> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >>> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >>> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >>> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >>> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >>> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >>> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >>> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >>> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >>> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >>> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >>> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >>> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >>> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >>> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >>> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >>> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >>> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >>> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >>> because they don't know what else to do. >>> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >>> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >>> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >>> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >>> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >>> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >>> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >>> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >>> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >>> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >>> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >>> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >>> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >>> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >>> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >>> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >>> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >>> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >>> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >>> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >>> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >>> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >>> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >>> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >>> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >>> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >>> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >>> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >>> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >>> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >>> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >>> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >>> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >>> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >>> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >>> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >>> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >>> functional blindness. >>> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >>> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >>> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >>> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >>> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >>> or other because they only have impaired vision. >>> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >>> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >>> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >>> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >>> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >>> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >>> mutual advantage. >>> Best regards, >>> Heather Field >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Dezman, >>> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >>> cane >>> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >>> me >>> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >>> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >>> for >>> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >>> answer, if not one I prefer. >>> Joseph >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>>> than say >>>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>>> where I'm >>>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>>> as >>>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>>> speak. I >>>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>>> your >>>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>>> sight. >>>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>>> of >>>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>>> you >>>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>>> now. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dezman >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>>> legally >>>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>>> blind >>>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>>> you >>>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>>> either. And >>>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>>> you are >>>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>>> what >>>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>>> do >>>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>>> people >>>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>>> when >>>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>>> "well >>>> they can hear some but >>>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>>> take >>>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>>> bit >>>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>>> people >>>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>>> print, >>>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>>> someone >>>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>>> what >>>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>>> up >>>> on that a long time ago. >>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>>> impaired >>>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>>> with >>>> another >>>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>>> hearing >>>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>>> deafness >>>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>>> inability to >>>> speak, >>>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>>> that >>>> I do >>>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>>> that >>>> certain >>>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>>> crossings >>>> and >>>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>>> call >>>> myself >>>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>>> individual to >>>> call >>>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>>> blind >>>> you are >>>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>>> find >>>> myself >>>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>>> much but am >>>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>>> Joseph >>>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>>> around. >>>> Just as >>>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>>> we >>>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>>> reading the >>>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>>> all of you >>>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>>> residual >>>> vision. >>>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>>> even know >>>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>>> others out >>>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>>> blindness. >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>>> and >>>> as >>>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>>> noticed >>>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>>> one. It >>>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>>> people. >>>> These >>>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>>> want to >>>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>>> person... >>>> this >>>>>> group is for you too! >>>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>>> fact >>>> that we >>>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>>> that >>>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>>> be >>>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>>> blurred >>>> and if >>>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>>> these >>>> new >>>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>>> specific >>>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>>> the >>>> most >>>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>> "Attention >>>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>>> some sense >>>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>>> terminology >>>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>>> family? >>>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>>> to >>>> other >>>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>>> subject line >>>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>>> to the NABS >>>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>>> Impaired >>>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>>> blindness >>>>>> group of facebook! >>>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>>> group or >>>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>>> visually >>>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>>> also. I >>>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>>> example. >>>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>>> that >>>> perhaps >>>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>>> and >>>> blur >>>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>>> blind >>>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>>> as >>>> solid >>>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>>> us >>>> debate >>>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>>> what it >>>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>>> importance? >>>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>>> Janice >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>> nonmembers. >>>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>> philosophy of the >>>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>>> them. I >>>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>>> blind. I felt >>>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>>> through >>>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>>> models, >>>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>>> is >>>> simply >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>>> promote NFB >>>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>> philosophy. >>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d ezman%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath er%40comcast.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia% 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac. kostiw%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 18 05:47:20 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:47:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] research methods In-Reply-To: <1F9CEB39D44D4FA3AF70E280FBD97804@Ashley> References: <001d01c93a34$8bd014b0$0201a8c0@Serene><4ed9a39a0810300654m2f673a14p5a4513261ed4be9b@mail.gmail.com> <1F9CEB39D44D4FA3AF70E280FBD97804@Ashley> Message-ID: Does anyone know how to use the JFW skim or summary feature? I tried with a pdf file but it kept re-reading the beginning lines of the file rather than reading the first sentence of each paragraph like I wanted it to. Thanks for your help, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods Lauren, Can you explain the skim feature? Also is it available in Openbook 7? Next I found I have to use books since articles are so specific; trying to write on child obesity. Any tips on working with readers and books would be useful. Its so much easier to ask them to read a textbook since its straight reading then with well organized headings and bold terms often. How do I get them to look for what I need? Do I just ask them to skim for key words in a section or check the index? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Tuchman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > Hi Ashley, > > I apologize if this has been mentioned already as I have not caught up on > the entire thread. I, too, am an Open Book user. If you download version > 8.0 from the FS web site, it does have a skim feature. There is also a > virtual printer which will convert a pdf file to an accessible text > document. hth! > Lauren > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > > >> Corbb, >> >> I like your idea to read the first few paragraphs and last few paragraphs >> of the article. I've done that with a reader. I know jaws can go by >> paragraph in word as well. I think I'll use your strategy of one >> document >> for each source. My note files are big and then I often don't know what >> notes came from wich source even though I label it on top before writing. >> Its just that when reading further down in the document I forget what >> source it is. If its named at the top of the document maybe this will >> help. >> >> I don't use Kurzweil but do have Openbook. Is there a similar feature in >> it? If so how do you use it? Many database files are in PDF. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Corbb O'Connor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods >> >> >>> This will be brief because I am running to class in a moment. If you >>> use Kurzweil, I open the articles in Adobe Reader, then print to "KESI >>> Virtual Printer"--installed when you install K1000. The page numbers >>> then appear at the top or bottom of the Kurzweil pages, as those are >>> printed on each page of the journal. There's an option in K1000 to >>> "review" or "skim" or something like that -- basically it reads the >>> first sentence of each paragraph. I read the first few paragraphs of >>> the article, the last few paragraphs of the article, and the first >>> sentence of each paragraph. That usually tells me whether the article >>> will be helpful -- if so, then I find parts that seemed of use and >>> read those. >>> >>> I use a magnification program, not JAWS, so I am not sure about >>> database accessbility. >>> >>> I am trying a new strategy for notes -- a new Word document for each >>> source, and then later blend those together into an outline of quotes, >>> paraphrases, etc. Then it's writing time! >>> >>> Good luck. >>> Corbb >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Serena wrote: >>>> I used the library data bases. Proquest Direct and Ebscohost are >>>> pretty >>>> accessible. If the articles were relatively short, I read them all the >>>> way >>>> through with Jaws, but if they were really long, I used readers. The >>>> librarians often helped me find books. That often helped, so I >>>> wouldn't >>>> have to use readers for that. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] research methods >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I wanted some more ideas on this. Then I'll have a sheet with ideas >>>>> for >>>>> myself and others wo ask me. I am about to begin a big research paper >>>>> for >>>>> my senior class. All seniors do this to demonstrate critical >>>>> thinking, >>>>> organization and writing skills. Research has been quite challenging. >>>>> I >>>>> use readers a lot but its hard to communicate what I am looking for. >>>>> Much >>>>> research is at the library and books and some other matterial is not >>>>> accessible. So my questions. >>>>> >>>>> Do you use your school's databases? What ones are jaws friendly? Its >>>>> been my experience that databases are not very accessible. There are >>>>> lots >>>>> of boxes and info before jaws reads the titles of articles. In an >>>>> article >>>>> I'm sure you read the abstract first to determine relevance. I do as >>>>> wel. >>>>> >>>>> How do you skim the article for relevant info? Or perhaps you read it >>>>> all? Scholarly articles are big, about twenty pages long on average >>>>> from my >>>>> experience. With jaws or a reader, skipping info is hard since I don't >>>>> know >>>>> what I'm looking for exactly. >>>>> How do you cite pages? Does someone read you the page numbers as >>>>> well? >>>>> This has been problematic for me. I write notes but don't know later >>>>> what >>>>> page it was on and cannot skim the article for that info. >>>>> >>>>> Have you used the librarians for help? If so, what role did they >>>>> play? >>>>> Did you ask them to search for you and they read you the titles of >>>>> articles/books? I have used them and they pointed me to the right >>>>> databases >>>>> and card catalog for books but also served as a reader sort of as we >>>>> gathered info. >>>>> >>>>> I find research frustrating when you think something sounds great and >>>>> read >>>>> it but then its not so good. I think this happens to all students, >>>>> but >>>>> since it takes longer for us its more frustrating. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas are appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3567 (20081029) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3570 (20081030) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ltuchman1%40comcast. net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3571 (20081030) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 07:06:28 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:06:28 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. In-Reply-To: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> Message-ID: <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> Harry, I've had lots of contact with special education teachers. Presently, the issue seems to be whether or not people with disabilities are to be recipients of special education, or whether they can be providers as well. Consequently, some of the people who ought to know better appear to be of the opinion that we cannot. It's all getting very messy and is causing me to consider a number of other pursuits that I believe would put me in a better position to address some of these issues on a broader scale. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:53:07PM -0800, Henry Vasquez wrote: > Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to My Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los Angeles Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with you any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 >Henry Vasquez. >YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. >Live life as if there is no tomorrow. >Laugh as if no one is listening. >Dance as if no one is watching. >Love as if you have never been hurt. >SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 12:19:14 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:19:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. In-Reply-To: <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811180419pabd00f4n623617754c625934@mail.gmail.com> I've seen blind people who were certified rehabilitation conselors, and I've heard of blind people who were teachers of special education as well. One of my friends wants to be a teacher of the blind. Beth On 11/18/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Harry, > > I've had lots of contact with special education teachers. Presently, the > issue seems to be whether or not people with disabilities are to be > recipients of special education, or whether they can be providers as well. > > Consequently, some of the people who ought to know better appear to be of > the opinion that we cannot. It's all getting very messy and is causing me > to consider a number of other pursuits that I believe would put me in a > better position to address some of these issues on a broader scale. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:53:07PM -0800, Henry Vasquez wrote: >> Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are >> interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. >> Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would >> like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially >> in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is >> involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to My >> Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been >> working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los Angeles >> Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with you >> any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail >> henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 >>Henry Vasquez. >>YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO >> CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. >>Live life as if there is no tomorrow. >>Laugh as if no one is listening. >>Dance as if no one is watching. >>Love as if you have never been hurt. >>SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 12:20:58 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:20:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <87F0B0F51DE24CE3967C8565D286A886@D6RYFF31> References: <595374.90634.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9ECF6CCC17264D8FA3899756A4C2A16C@Ashley> <87F0B0F51DE24CE3967C8565D286A886@D6RYFF31> Message-ID: <4383d01d0811180420w1a18e7cbwd50a771e4edb6f28@mail.gmail.com> Welcome to the world of politics and the real world. The government doesn't always work for us, don't hey? lol Beth On 11/17/08, Jessica R wrote: > I am looking at either Colorado or Blind Inc. It's a bear of a fight! > Stupid government doesn't want to do what they say they do! > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jonte711 at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 13:56:34 2008 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:56:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology Message-ID: <4922c960.0906c00a.6ae0.4442@mx.google.com> That happens to me too sometimes and I just ignore it and continue talking to them in a normal tone of voice, hoping that they'll come to their senses once they get to know me. Jonte -----Original Message----- From: hannah Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology I have noticed that a lot of people use a different tone when talking to us; like we're babies or we'r old or... I was wondering how you guys deal with it. I just ignore it, but sometimes it's overwhelming and I get really mad when I'm alone or with friends who treat me equaally. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jessica Kostiw" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:10:18 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >I love it!! I am going to try using that term as well!! The only thing I >would wonder is, aren't these people going to just narrow in on the word >blind and therefore continue to treat me like an invilid? It is my >experience that if you say any other word except blind, people back off. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Yolanda Garcia" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:44 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and succinct >> manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as it's the >> first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm definitely going >> to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of others! >> Warmest, >> Yolanda >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "H. Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Hi all, >>> After long years of being discriminated against because of the >>> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social experiments, >>> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. And, >>> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do so >>> because I have found that using a term for which the general public >>> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is the >>> most affective way of dealing with this problem of discrimination. >>> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, functionally >>> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences with >>> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer their >>> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, "oh, >>> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's not >>> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision to >>> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go on to >>> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things without >>> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though people >>> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they let the >>> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their concerns >>> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how much >>> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like blind, or >>> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my >>> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of vision >>> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect stereotypes to >>> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me much >>> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat others >>> because they don't know what else to do. >>> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to keep >>> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist and, >>> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people stop >>> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at some later >>> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If newly >>> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what can you >>> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large print. >>> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage to come >>> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them wave to >>> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I answer >>> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of vision. >>> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain want >>> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are asking me, >>> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely saying "oh, >>> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what most >>> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it from >>> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is mine, and >>> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general approach and >>> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have genuine >>> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their vision, >>> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. >>> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the public >>> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, and >>> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's situation. It >>> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers used to >>> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one possesses, >>> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's vision is >>> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the curious >>> public can't do anything much useful with the information I would give >>> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition that >>> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 feet in >>> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that person (and >>> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision impaired >>> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a newspaper and >>> read it on the train. However, when they say they are functionally >>> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of accurate >>> information about the nature of this person's particular version of >>> functional blindness. >>> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also taken to >>> using this term because it always results in allowing them to say that >>> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They have >>> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from insisting >>> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do something >>> or other because they only have impaired vision. >>> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision when >>> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant not to >>> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten words. >>> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I also >>> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and annoying >>> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to our >>> mutual advantage. >>> Best regards, >>> Heather Field >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>> Dezman, >>> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I use a >>> cane >>> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used against >>> me >>> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. >>> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're prepared >>> for >>> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an acceptable >>> answer, if not one I prefer. >>> Joseph >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people in >>>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch >>>> than say >>>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances >>>> where I'm >>>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the community. >>>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of myself >>>> as >>>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things as >>>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to >>>> speak. I >>>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but it's >>>> your >>>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into the >>>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of >>>> sight. >>>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a function >>>> of >>>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better off >>>> you >>>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, this >>>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop babbling >>>> now. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dezman >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely >>>> legally >>>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not completely >>>> blind >>>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you are >>>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. If >>>> you >>>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that >>>> either. And >>>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large print, >>>> you are >>>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't matter >>>> what >>>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept within >>>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need to >>>> do >>>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other >>>> people >>>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed out, >>>> when >>>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without the >>>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, >>>> "well >>>> they can hear some but >>>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You can >>>> take >>>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this a >>>> bit >>>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what >>>> people >>>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large >>>> print, >>>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because >>>> someone >>>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this is >>>> what >>>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. I gave >>>> up >>>> on that a long time ago. >>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook wrote: >>>> From: Chris Westbrook >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >>>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >>>> impaired >>>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example >>>> with >>>> another >>>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >>>> hearing >>>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >>>> deafness >>>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >>>> inability to >>>> speak, >>>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >>>> that >>>> I do >>>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept >>>> that >>>> certain >>>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >>>> crossings >>>> and >>>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >>>> call >>>> myself >>>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >>>> individual to >>>> call >>>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >>>> blind >>>> you are >>>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >>>> find >>>> myself >>>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >>>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >>>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will take >>>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >>>> much but am >>>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >>>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >>>>> Joseph >>>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >>>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a >>>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >>>> around. >>>> Just as >>>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), >>>> we >>>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >>>> reading the >>>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >>>> all of you >>>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >>>> residual >>>> vision. >>>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >>>> even know >>>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >>>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >>>> others out >>>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >>>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >>>> blindness. >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Corbb O'Connor >>>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >>>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >>>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >>>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs board >>>>>> and >>>> as >>>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have recently >>>> noticed >>>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a good >>>> one. It >>>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >>>>>> people. >>>> These >>>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might not >>>> want to >>>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >>>>>> person... >>>> this >>>>>> group is for you too! >>>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >>>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >>>>>> fact >>>> that we >>>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing >>>>>> that >>>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >>>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going to >>>>>> be >>>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >>>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >>>>>> blurred >>>> and if >>>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get >>>>>> these >>>> new >>>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >>>>>> specific >>>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to be >>>>>> the >>>> most >>>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >>>> "Attention >>>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes >>>> some sense >>>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify as >>>> visually >>>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use the >>>> terminology >>>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >>>>>> family? >>>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to refer >>>>>> to >>>> other >>>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email >>>> subject line >>>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced >>>> to the NABS >>>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and Visually >>>> Impaired >>>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new >>>> blindness >>>>>> group of facebook! >>>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >>>>>> group or >>>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >>>> visually >>>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >>>> also. I >>>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and relevant >>>> example. >>>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >>>>>> that >>>> perhaps >>>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax >>>>>> and >>>> blur >>>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all >>>>>> blind >>>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, not >>>>>> as >>>> solid >>>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? >>>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers among >>>>>> us >>>> debate >>>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to our >>>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness and >>>> what it >>>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of >>>> importance? >>>>>> Thoughtfully yours, >>>>>> Janice >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >>>> >>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >>>>>>> Karen and all, >>>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >>>> nonmembers. >>>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >>>> philosophy of the >>>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word >>>> "Blind" is sometimes a >>>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of >>>> them. I >>>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as >>>> blind. I felt >>>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >>>> impaired". The acceptance >>>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes >>>> through >>>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role >>>> models, >>>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It >>>>>>> is >>>> simply >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can >>>> promote NFB >>>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >>>> philosophy. >>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>> Terri Rupp, President >>>>>>> National Association of Blind Students >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d ezman%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj oseph%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath er%40comcast.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia% 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac. kostiw%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 14:23:27 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:23:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: <87F0B0F51DE24CE3967C8565D286A886@D6RYFF31> Message-ID: <4922cfe4.02c3f10a.3430.ffff8cf4@mx.google.com> Dear Jessica, Have you contacted the directors or Outreach persons for the Centers you are thinking of? They have extensive experience with working through the bureaucratic and resistant dilemmas that can occur in every state. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica R Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers I am looking at either Colorado or Blind Inc. It's a bear of a fight! Stupid government doesn't want to do what they say they do! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From jraichle at carthage.edu Tue Nov 18 15:09:15 2008 From: jraichle at carthage.edu (Jessica R) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:09:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <4922cfe4.02c3f10a.3430.ffff8cf4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Carrie: I am getting help from at least Blind, Inc. for now. The Colorado Center has said they would help me, but I haven't heard anything from them in a while, even though I have called and left messages. Jessica From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 16:21:13 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:21:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4922eb82.47c1f10a.75f8.ffff9220@mx.google.com> Minnesnowta is a fine place to get training. You will have a chance to cut down a tree if you are here by Christmas-smile, but I think all the centers do it. I am glad you are in contact. For the others who are having doubts about what a blind person can do...that is a typical and normal process that many go through. Even if you are raised with strong expectations at home and school the everyday doubts that society places on your psyche can get into your head and emotions. The only thing I have found is to keep meeting a wide variety of blind people who are doing what you fear can not be done, and then taking some risk to do those things your self and getting training to do the everyday things that you should be able to do independently like cook, read, travel, take care of yourself, etc. I used a chainsaw while blindfolded last summer, I was supervised for safety by a blind man. I had never used a chainsaw before. I have a nice chunk of log on my desk now to remind me about cutting through fears. There are several Kernel books stories you can look up, "Let that blind man work on my truck" from Making Hay comes to mind, as does "Bringing home the Christmas tree" from the same book. You can order the book in either print, Braille or cassette or find its contents online. The kernel book entitled Tooth past and railroad tracks has "the blind beak of bow street" about a blind police officer who fundamentally in the end changed police and detective work so today's police forces around the world use his methods still today. There have been totally blind carpenters, electricians and pig farmers and horse ranchers, as well as the teachers, lawyers, there is a blind barber I have seen too...there is not too much not possible. When you think of what you can or can not do, measure it from your talents and intellect not your eyesight. I am sighted but I can not be an electrician or carpenter or brain surgeon or famous singer...just no talent in those areas. Like most things in life you will get out of your training what sweat and blood and tears you put into it. Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica R Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers Carrie: I am getting help from at least Blind, Inc. for now. The Colorado Center has said they would help me, but I haven't heard anything from them in a while, even though I have called and left messages. Jessica _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From awheeler at neb.rr.com Tue Nov 18 17:08:48 2008 From: awheeler at neb.rr.com (Alan Wheeler) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:08:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers References: <4922eb82.47c1f10a.75f8.ffff9220@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9D5CA2DE70FE4D01BDD94F2AD02E37E8@Alan> Hehehehehehe, I remember doing that when I was on the BLIND, Inc staff. Ron Burzese and I also rolled one giantic snowball. +-+-+- For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16 ~~~ Alan D Wheeler awheeler at neb.rr.com IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com Skype: redwheel1 Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at www.theqonline.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Gilmer" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > Minnesnowta is a fine place to get training. You will have a chance to cut > down a tree if you are here by Christmas-smile, but I think all the centers > do it. I am glad you are in contact. > > For the others who are having doubts about what a blind person can do...that > is a typical and normal process that many go through. Even if you are raised > with strong expectations at home and school the everyday doubts that society > places on your psyche can get into your head and emotions. The only thing I > have found is to keep meeting a wide variety of blind people who are doing > what you fear can not be done, and then taking some risk to do those things > your self and getting training to do the everyday things that you should be > able to do independently like cook, read, travel, take care of yourself, > etc. > > I used a chainsaw while blindfolded last summer, I was supervised for safety > by a blind man. I had never used a chainsaw before. I have a nice chunk of > log on my desk now to remind me about cutting through fears. > > There are several Kernel books stories you can look up, "Let that blind man > work on my truck" from Making Hay comes to mind, as does "Bringing home the > Christmas tree" from the same book. You can order the book in either print, > Braille or cassette or find its contents online. The kernel book entitled > Tooth past and railroad tracks has "the blind beak of bow street" about a > blind police officer who fundamentally in the end changed police and > detective work so today's police forces around the world use his methods > still today. There have been totally blind carpenters, electricians and pig > farmers and horse ranchers, as well as the teachers, lawyers, there is a > blind barber I have seen too...there is not too much not possible. > > When you think of what you can or can not do, measure it from your talents > and intellect not your eyesight. I am sighted but I can not be an > electrician or carpenter or brain surgeon or famous singer...just no talent > in those areas. > > Like most things in life you will get out of your training what sweat and > blood and tears you put into it. > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jessica R > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Training Centers > > Carrie: > I am getting help from at least Blind, Inc. for now. The Colorado > Center has said they would help me, but I haven't heard anything from them > in a while, even though I have called and left messages. > Jessica > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/awheeler%40neb.rr.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 18:34:10 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:34:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811180419pabd00f4n623617754c625934@mail.gmail.com> References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811180419pabd00f4n623617754c625934@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081118183409.GC58529@yumi.bluecherry.net> So have I, Beth. The issue here is one of fundamental attitudes. These can be changed only through education. One way or another, they will learn that what a blind person is capable of doing isn't significantly different than what a sighted person is. Joseph On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 07:19:14AM -0500, Beth wrote: >I've seen blind people who were certified rehabilitation conselors, >and I've heard of blind people who were teachers of special education >as well. >One of my friends wants to be a teacher of the blind. >Beth > >On 11/18/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Harry, >> >> I've had lots of contact with special education teachers. Presently, the >> issue seems to be whether or not people with disabilities are to be >> recipients of special education, or whether they can be providers as well. >> >> Consequently, some of the people who ought to know better appear to be of >> the opinion that we cannot. It's all getting very messy and is causing me >> to consider a number of other pursuits that I believe would put me in a >> better position to address some of these issues on a broader scale. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:53:07PM -0800, Henry Vasquez wrote: >>> Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are >>> interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. >>> Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would >>> like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially >>> in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is >>> involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to My >>> Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been >>> working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los Angeles >>> Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with you >>> any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail >>> henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 >>>Henry Vasquez. >>>YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO >>> CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. >>>Live life as if there is no tomorrow. >>>Laugh as if no one is listening. >>>Dance as if no one is watching. >>>Love as if you have never been hurt. >>>SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 18 20:06:45 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:06:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [BlindAttic] Huge Price Reduction on K-NFB and K-Reader MobileSoftware! Message-ID: Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earle Harrison" To: ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: [BlindAttic] Huge Price Reduction on K-NFB and K-Reader MobileSoftware! > Handy Tech North America is pleased to announce the most significant price > reduction of the world's most portable, and now most affordable camera > based image capture and read technology. > > Effective immediately, and just in time for the holidays, customers will > enjoy a $600.00 price reduction in the K Reader and K-NFB Reader Mobile > software Products. > > Just released in January of 2008, both the K-Reader and K-NFB Reader > Mobile > software were priced at $1,595.00. The new price is $995.00. > > We at Handy Tech North America both applaud and appreciate this incredible > development because it places this awesome technology well within the > grasp > of consumers who simply couldn't afford it before. We understand that for > some, $1,495.00 the new cost of the K-Reader and K-NFB Reader with Nokia > N82 > Mobile bundle, may as well be a million dollars because some people don't > have that either, but considering that only 2 years ago the original > reader > cost $3500.00 is amazing! I would challenge those who would argue that > the > cost is still too high, to name another product in the assistive > technology > industry that has come down in price by $2000 over a two year period, I > can't think of one myself at the moment. > > Here is the new price breakdown: > > K-NFB Reader Software only: $995.00 > - for people who already own a supported phone such as the N82 and would > like to install the software themselves. > > Nokia N82 and K-NFB Reader installed and configured: $1,495.00 > - for people who have no immediate desire to access the features of the > phone, but want a portable and reliable means of accessing print > materials. > > Nokia N82, K-NFB Reader and choice of Mobile Speak or Talks screen reader > installed and configured: $1,795.00 > - for people who want access to print materials and wish to access the > features of the phone such as messaging, contacts, calendar appointments > and > much more. > > Nokia N-82, K-NFB Reader, choice of either Talks or Mobile Speak screen > reader, Way Finder Access GPS navigation software with GPS receiver > installed and configured: $2,295.00 > - for people who want to add GPS navigation to an accessible phone and the > world's most portable means of accessing printed materials. > > The above pricing is subject to change without notice. > > For more information call Handy Tech North America at: 651-636-5184 or > e-mail: sales at handytech.us > > Best Regards, > > Earle Harrison > Handy Tech North America > Ph: 651-636-5184 > Fx: 866-347-8249 > Em: earle at handytech.us > Wb: www.handytech.us > > > > > Join the Treasure Scroll mailing list and discover how EShopping with > Blind Treasures is fun, safe, and affordable! We offer a wide selection of > interesting & unique treasures which change on a daily basis, but are > usually in low quantities, so you must act quickly. Featuring monthly > contests for free prizes too! > We specialize in creating customer satisfaction and our number one goal is > pleasing you! Simply call or email the King with your order, concern, or > suggestion and he will take care of it for you! So we invite you to > enter > the castle and give us a try... and begin receiving the royal treatment > you deserve today!! http://www.blindtreasures.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 18 20:16:04 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:16:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: NASA Invites Students to Name New Mars Rover Message-ID: Hey all, Heres a cool opportunity for anyone under the age of 18 and for those of your with little brothers and sisters. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at uic.edu Mobile: 832-518-0707 http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory" To: "David Wright" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: NASA Invites Students to Name New Mars Rover Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov News Release: 2008-215 November 18, 2008 NASA Invites Students to Name New Mars Rover WASHINGTON -- NASA is looking for the right stuff, or in this case, the right name for the next Mars rover. NASA, in cooperation with Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures' movie WALL-E from Pixar Animation Studios, will conduct a naming contest for its car- sized Mars Science Laboratory rover that is scheduled for launch in 2009. The contest begins Tuesday, Nov. 18, and is open to students 5 to 18 years old who attend a U.S. school and are enrolled in the current academic year. To enter the contest, students will submit essays explaining why their suggested name for the rover should be chosen. Essays must be received by Jan. 25, 2009. In March 2009, the public will have an opportunity to rank nine finalist names via the Internet as additional input for judges to consider during the selection process. NASA will announce the winning rover name in April 2009. Disney will provide prizes to students submitting winning essays, including a trip to NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., where the rover is under construction. The grand prize winner will have an opportunity to place a signature on the spacecraft and take part in the history of space exploration. "Mars exploration has always captured the public imagination," said Mark Dahl, program executive for the Mars Science Laboratory at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "This contest will expand our ability to inspire students' interest in science and give the public a chance to participate in NASA's next expedition to Mars." Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures in Burbank, Calif., will make it possible for WALL- E, the name of its animated robotic hero and summer 2008 movie, to appear in online content inviting students to participate in the naming contest. The online WALL-E content will provide young viewers with a current connection to the human-robotic partnership that is transforming discovery and exploration. The contest coincides with Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment's release of WALL-E on DVD and Blu-ray. The naming contest partnership is part of a Space Act Agreement between NASA and Disney designed to use the appeal of WALL-E in educational and public outreach efforts. "All of us at Disney are delighted to be working with NASA in its educational and public outreach efforts to teach schoolchildren about space exploration, robot technology and the universe in which they live," said Mark Zoradi, president of Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures Group. "WALL-E is one of the most lovable and entertaining characters that Pixar has ever created, and he is the perfect spokes-robot for this program." The Mars Science Laboratory rover will be larger and more capable than any craft previously sent to land there. It will check whether the environment in a carefully selected landing region ever has been favorable for supporting microbial life. The rover will search for minerals that formed in the presence of water and look for several chemical building blocks of life. "We are now in a phase when we're building and testing the rover before its journey to Mars," said John Klein, deputy project manager for the Mars Science Laboratory at JPL. "As the rover comes together and begins to take shape, the whole team can't wait to call it by name." Additional assignments include imaging its surroundings in high definition, analyzing rocks with a high-powered laser beam, inspecting rocks and soil with a six-foot robotic arm, and cooking and sniffing rock powder delivered from a hammering drill to investigate what minerals are in Martian rocks. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, manages the Mars Science Laboratory Project for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Information about the contest is available at http://marsrovername.jpl.nasa.gov . More information on Mars Science Laboratory is at http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/ . -end- To remove yourself from this mailing, please go to http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?a=guITK7PPLmKWKhL&s=orKWK1OELlLTJ0OPG&m=gfIQI2MEImL0F To remove yourself from all mailings from NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, please go to http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?a=9nJFLMMnFfJJIXK&s=orKWK1OELlLTJ0OPG&m=gfIQI2MEImL0F From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Nov 19 03:33:04 2008 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:33:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Geerat Vermeij to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Public Relations Specialist National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Geerat Vermeij to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Baltimore, Maryland (November 17, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation’s leading advocate for Braille literacy, announced today that Dr. Geerat Vermeij, professor of geology at the University of California at Davis and MacArthur Fellowship Award recipient, will serve as a National Ambassador for Braille literacy. As an ambassador, Dr. Vermeij will help advance the NFB’s Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, a national initiative to promote the importance of reading and writing Braille for blind children and adults. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of the design of a commemorative coin to be minted in 2009 in recognition of the two-hundredth anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille (1809–1852), the inventor of the reading and writing code for the blind that bears his name. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have Dr. Vermeij as part of this historic initiative to bring Braille literacy to all of the blind children and adults in America who need it. Dr. Vermeij is a professor, an evolutionary biologist and paleontologist, and an accomplished author­­­­and he uses Braille to effectively do this work. His success as a blind individual is surely an inspiration to blind children and adults learning Braille throughout the United States and the world. There can be no doubt that the ability to read and write Braille competently and efficiently is the key to education, employment, and success for the blind. Despite the undisputed value of Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind children in the United States are currently learning it. Society would never accept a 10 percent literacy rate among sighted children; it should not accept such an outrageously low literacy rate among the blind. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, with the support of influential scholars like Geerat Vermeij, will reverse the downward trend in Braille literacy and ensure that equal opportunities in education and employment are available to all of the nation’s blind.” Geerat Vermeij said: “I am honored and pleased to serve as a National Ambassador for the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign. I can emphatically say that Braille literacy is critical and that the lack of Braille instruction in classrooms today is outrageous. Without the use of Braille, I simply would not be able to do my job­­I use it every day while collecting and analyzing data, maintaining an enormous Braille library of scientific material, and writing manuscripts. Braille literacy has helped me to achieve my goals, and I hope to help other blind children and adults do the same.” For more information about the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign and the Louis Braille commemorative coin, please visit www.braille.org. ### From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 03:58:11 2008 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:58:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <4922c960.0906c00a.6ae0.4442@mx.google.com> References: <4922c960.0906c00a.6ae0.4442@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I don't really notice a change in tone of voice, but I do notice that *some*people lean forward toward me as they talk to me. It is mostly older people. IDK if it is just the way people talk or if they think that I can't hear them or have trouble hearing them. Jordan On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 7:56 AM, jonte wrote: > That happens to me too sometimes and I just ignore it and continue talking > to them in a normal tone of voice, hoping that they'll come to their senses > once they get to know me. > Jonte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hannah > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > I have noticed that a lot of people use a different tone when > talking to us; like we're babies or we'r old or... I was > wondering how you guys deal with it. I just ignore it, but > sometimes it's overwhelming and I get really mad when I'm alone > or with friends who treat me equaally. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jessica Kostiw" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:10:18 -0600 > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > >I love it!! I am going to try using that term as well!! The > only thing I > >would wonder is, aren't these people going to just narrow in on > the word > >blind and therefore continue to treat me like an invilid? It is > my > >experience that if you say any other word except blind, people > back off. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Yolanda Garcia" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:44 PM > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >> Wow Heather, this was fabulously written in such a lucid and > succinct > >> manner! Thank you for sharing this "alternative" perspective, as > it's the > >> first time I have ever heard of this labeling term!!! I'm > definitely going > >> to test this method/theory out soon and see the reaction of > others! > > >> Warmest, > >> Yolanda > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "H. Field" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:35 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >>> Hi all, > >>> After long years of being discriminated against because of the > >>> hierarchy of sight beliefs, and after many various social > experiments, > >>> by way of responses, I have come up with the following approach. > And, > >>> I must confess that I took it from Federation literature. I do > so > >>> because I have found that using a term for which the general > public > >>> has no referent, no previous stereotypes or wrong ideas, it is > the > >>> most affective way of dealing with this problem of > discrimination. > > >>> When I am asked how much I can see, I reply that I am, > functionally > >>> blind. They don't have a set of stereotypes or past experiences > with > >>> others who have used this term and so it allows me to answer > their > >>> questions with my own positive take on it. So, when they say, > "oh, > >>> well how much can you actually see?", I simply say "well, that's > not > >>> really the issue, what matters is that I don't rely on my vision > to > >>> get the job done because it's not functional vision." I then go > on to > >>> tell them all the positive, cool ways I have of doing things > without > >>> relying on vision. It has been my experience that, even though > people > >>> may want to know more or discuss the matter further, that they > let the > >>> matter lie. This is because I have demonstrated that their > concerns > >>> about what I may or may not be able to do is not related to how > much > >>> vision I do or don't have. They want a word they know, like > blind, or > >>> visually impaired, so they can think they know about me and my > >>> abilities. However, I have not actually given them an amount of > vision > >>> or a word which allows them to use their old, incorrect > stereotypes to > >>> help them determine how they will relate to me. This gives me > much > >>> more opportunity to have them treat me like they would treat > others > >>> because they don't know what else to do. > > >>> It is usually simple curiosity that makes seeing people want to > keep > >>> asking. However, they know that it would be rude to persist > and, > >>> because they don't want to be thought of as rude, most people > stop > >>> asking. If we become friends then they usually ask again at > some later > >>> date, and I am happy to share my business with my friends. If > newly > >>> met, rude strangers actually do persist, asking "yes, but what > can you > >>> see. I mean, can you see light, shadows, colours, faces, large > print. > >>> What exactly?" I ask them why they are asking. If they manage > to come > >>> up with a specific, genuine concern such as, would I see them > wave to > >>> me or would I need people to speak to me to recognise them, I > answer > >>> that specific question and still don't give them an amount of > vision. > >>> It is my experience, however, that people basically, just plain > want > >>> to know. Usually, these folks, when I ask them why they are > asking me, > >>> confess to plain curiosity. I usually respond by politely > saying "oh, > >>> I see, you just wanted to know, I understand." Because of what > most > >>> people do with that kind of information, I choose to withhold it > from > >>> them. After all, it really is none of their business, it is > mine, and > >>> it is my choice who I tell. Of course, this is my general > approach and > >>> if I meet someone who is genuinely enquiring because they have > genuine > >>> reasons for asking, such as a friend or relative losing their > vision, > >>> I'm quite happy to discuss personal details with them. > > >>> But, there is a more important reason than my privacy, why the > public > >>> doesn't need specific information on a first meeting with me, > and > >>> Carrie explained it well in discussing her son Jordan's > situation. It > >>> is well-known in the blindness field, that the actual numbers > used to > >>> describe the amount of clinically, measurable vision one > possesses, > >>> doesn't really say anything much about how functional one's > vision is > >>> in the real world and, from one situation to another. So, the > curious > >>> public can't do anything much useful with the information I > would give > >>> them anyway. For example, someone may have an eye condition > that > >>> allows them to read regular print but not see further than 3 > feet in > >>> front of them and they have no peripheral vision. If that > person (and > >>> this is a real person known to me) says that they are vision > impaired > >>> they will undoubtedly be disbelieved when they pick up a > newspaper and > >>> read it on the train. However, when they say they are > functionally > >>> blind, this opens the discussion and allows a sharing of > accurate > >>> information about the nature of this person's particular version > of > >>> functional blindness. > > >>> A number of my, low vision, vision impaired friends have also > taken to > >>> using this term because it always results in allowing them to > say that > >>> they are functionally blind but can see the following. They > have > >>> reported to me that this has kept the seeing people from > insisting > >>> that they should be able to see this or that, or able to do > something > >>> or other because they only have impaired vision. > > >>> This is the way I have chosen to discuss the topic of my vision > when > >>> meeting new, seeing people. It has been refreshingly pleasant > not to > >>> have to deal with the old stereotypes before we have said ten > words. > >>> Yes, I truly believe it's respectable to be blind. However, I > also > >>> believe if I've found a way to lessen the discrimination and > annoying > >>> nonsense that the seeing carry on with, then I should use it to > our > >>> mutual advantage. > > >>> Best regards, > > >>> Heather Field > > > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:29 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >>> Dezman, > > >>> There is something to that hierarchy of vision thing. That I > use a > >>> cane > >>> and that I describe myself simply as blind is these days used > against > >>> me > >>> on a daily basis. There really is something to it, though. > > >>> The question we have to ask ourselves is whether or not we're > prepared > >>> for > >>> the consequences of being who we are or not--and no is an > acceptable > >>> answer, if not one I prefer. > > >>> Joseph > > >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:57:28AM -0600, Dezman Jackson wrote: > >>>> I'll be volunerable here and say that when dealing with people > in > >>>> general, I feel that the word blind often carries a harder punch > >>>> than say > >>>> the phrase "visually impaired". I'll take for example instances > >>>> where I'm > >>>> scheduling a job interview or trying to volunteer in the > community. > >>>> Although I am totally blind and have no problem thinking of > myself > >>>> as > >>>> just simply blind, I sometimes struggle with saying such things > as > >>>> visually impaired in such situations to lighten the blow so to > >>>> speak. I > >>>> don't particularly have a problem with different phrases, but > it's > >>>> your > >>>> motivation behind the phrasing and for me it was to feed into > the > >>>> public's perception of what James Omvig calls the hierarchy of > >>>> sight. > >>>> This is basically the belief that your success in life is a > function > >>>> of > >>>> how much vision you have, the more vision you have, the better > off > >>>> you > >>>> are than someone who has less vision and vice versa. Of course, > this > >>>> concept is contrary to our philosophy. Alright I'll stop > babbling > >>>> now. > > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Dezman > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:25 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >>>> Thank you! This has always bugged me that people who are merely > >>>> legally > >>>> blind or who read large print, or who are otherwise not > completely > >>>> blind > >>>> would call themselves blind. To me, if you have some vision you > are > >>>> visually impaired. There is nothing negative about that at all. > If > >>>> you > >>>> have no vision you are totally blind. Nothing wrong with that > >>>> either. And > >>>> if you have some light perception? If you can't read large > print, > >>>> you are > >>>> still blind. But at the end of the day, it really shouldn't > matter > >>>> what > >>>> you choose to call it, so long as you understand and accept > within > >>>> yourself that you have trouble seeing, and this is what you need > to > >>>> do > >>>> alternatively (use a long cane, read braille, etc). What other > >>>> people > >>>> choose to call it shouldn't matter either. Just as you pointed > out, > >>>> when > >>>> someone says they are deaf, I think of them as totally without > the > >>>> ability to hear; when they say they are hearing impaired, I say, > >>>> "well > >>>> they can hear some but > >>>> they are not totally deaf." And the same with blindness. You > can > >>>> take > >>>> anything too far, and I am afraid the NFB and perhaps taken this > a > >>>> bit > >>>> too far--the distinction needs to be made when it comes to what > >>>> people > >>>> need--if someone needs a cane fo steps, but can still read large > >>>> print, > >>>> what's wrong with calling them visually impaired? Just because > >>>> someone > >>>> has a cane does not automatically make them blind, although this > is > >>>> what > >>>> most people think. And here again, you cna't please everyone. > I gave > >>>> up > >>>> on that a long time ago. > > > > > >>>> --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook > wrote: > > >>>> From: Chris Westbrook >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> >>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > > >>>> Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > >>>> impaired > >>>> you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an > example > >>>> with > >>>> another > >>>> disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I > said > >>>> hearing > >>>> impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because > >>>> deafness > >>>> generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the > >>>> inability to > >>>> speak, > >>>> etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, > you no > >>>> that > >>>> I do > >>>> not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also > accept > >>>> that > >>>> certain > >>>> things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street > >>>> crossings > >>>> and > >>>> socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me > to > >>>> call > >>>> myself > >>>> hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired > >>>> individual to > >>>> call > >>>> themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are > totally > >>>> blind > >>>> you are > >>>> visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the > more I > >>>> find > >>>> myself > >>>> struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >>>>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > >>>> philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > > >>>>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will > take > >>>> offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see > >>>> much but am > >>>> otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as > respectful. > > >>>>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > > >>>>> Joseph > > >>>>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > >>>>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that was a > >>>> blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded > >>>> around. > >>>> Just as > >>>> we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and > others), > >>>> we > >>>> wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > >>>> reading the > >>>> subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree > with > >>>> all of you > >>>> -- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some > >>>> residual > >>>> vision. > >>>> Let's not push people away from our great organization before > they > >>>> even know > >>>> who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > >>>> undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find > >>>> others out > >>>> there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > >>>> and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive > philosophy on > >>>> blindness. > > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> Corbb O'Connor > >>>>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > > > > >>>>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > > >>>>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > > >>>>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs > board > >>>>>> and > >>>> as > >>>>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have > recently > >>>> noticed > >>>>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can be a > good > >>>> one. It > >>>>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such as > >>>> visually > >>>>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of > >>>>>> people. > >>>> These > >>>>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might > not > >>>> want to > >>>>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired > >>>>>> person... > >>>> this > >>>>>> group is for you too! > >>>>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > >>>>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the > >>>>>> fact > >>>> that we > >>>>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into believing > >>>>>> that > >>>> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > >>>>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going > to > >>>>>> be > >>>>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > > >>>>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get > >>>>>> blurred > >>>> and if > >>>>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to get > >>>>>> these > >>>> new > >>>>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one > >>>>>> specific > >>>>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems to > be > >>>>>> the > >>>> most > >>>>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > >>>> "Attention > >>>>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This makes > >>>> some sense > >>>>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self identify > as > >>>> visually > >>>>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use > the > >>>> terminology > >>>>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation > >>>>>> family? > > >>>>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to > refer > >>>>>> to > >>>> other > >>>>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the email > >>>> subject line > >>>>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually announced > >>>> to the NABS > >>>>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and > Visually > >>>> Impaired > >>>>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, "new > >>>> blindness > >>>>>> group of facebook! > >>>>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific > >>>>>> group or > >>>> person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such > as > >>>> visually > >>>> impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature > recently, > >>>> also. I > >>>>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and > relevant > >>>> example. > >>>>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe > >>>>>> that > >>>> perhaps > >>>>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little lax > >>>>>> and > >>>> blur > >>>>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of all > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, > not > >>>>>> as > >>>> solid > >>>>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the Federation...? > > >>>>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers > among > >>>>>> us > >>>> debate > >>>>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to > our > >>>>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness > and > >>>> what it > >>>>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter of > >>>> importance? > > >>>>>> Thoughtfully yours, > > >>>>>> Janice > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >>>> >>>>>> To: "NABS list serve" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > > > >>>>>>> Karen and all, > >>>>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > >>>> nonmembers. > >>>>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > >>>> philosophy of the > >>>>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that word > >>>> "Blind" is sometimes a > >>>>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or accept > >>>>>>> their > >>>>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was one of > >>>> them. I > >>>>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me as > >>>> blind. I felt > >>>>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > >>>> impaired". The acceptance > >>>>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each person goes > >>>> through > >>>>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive blind role > >>>> models, > >>>>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being short. It > >>>>>>> is > >>>> simply > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we can > >>>> promote NFB > >>>>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > >>>> philosophy. > > >>>>>>> Yours, > >>>>>>> Terri Rupp, President > >>>>>>> National Association of Blind Students > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.d > ezman%40gmail.com > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tj > oseph%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheath > er%40comcast.net > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia% > 40gmail.com > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac. > kostiw%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > From marty.rahn at juno.com Wed Nov 19 04:43:11 2008 From: marty.rahn at juno.com (Marty Rahn) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:43:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE><20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4383d01d0811180419pabd00f4n623617754c625934@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, That doesnt mean that you don't get a lot of opposition from those who are already in the field to your wanting to join the field as a former recipient of special education services. I am currently getting quite a bit of opposition from my program at the University of Northern Colorado. I am trying to become a teacher of blind children, and it's certainly not easy when you're battling that age old belief that seems to be espoused by a lot of so-called professionals in the field that as a blind student, you should be the benificiary of special education services, but you shouldn't teach in the field. What Joseph said in another message is absolutely true, and it's a downright shame! Sincerely, Marty Rahn President, Colorado Association of Blind Students Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Colorado (Greeley Chapter) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Special Ed. > I've seen blind people who were certified rehabilitation conselors, > and I've heard of blind people who were teachers of special education > as well. > One of my friends wants to be a teacher of the blind. > Beth > > On 11/18/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Harry, >> >> I've had lots of contact with special education teachers. Presently, the >> issue seems to be whether or not people with disabilities are to be >> recipients of special education, or whether they can be providers as >> well. >> >> Consequently, some of the people who ought to know better appear to be of >> the opinion that we cannot. It's all getting very messy and is causing >> me >> to consider a number of other pursuits that I believe would put me in a >> better position to address some of these issues on a broader scale. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:53:07PM -0800, Henry Vasquez wrote: >>> Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are >>> interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. >>> Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would >>> like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially >>> in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is >>> involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to >>> My >>> Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been >>> working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los >>> Angeles >>> Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with >>> you >>> any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail >>> henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 >>>Henry Vasquez. >>>YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO >>> CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. >>>Live life as if there is no tomorrow. >>>Laugh as if no one is listening. >>>Dance as if no one is watching. >>>Love as if you have never been hurt. >>>SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marty.rahn%40juno.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 8:59 PM ____________________________________________________________ Free information on becoming a Graphic Designer. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw3huH3HFLtoQoQAZE0g4TNnHG2gmIojzyrX5IhwLgDWH69Wh/ From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 14:38:13 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:38:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811140708j1bcaadar136fec407188b8be@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081104214655.PVLH27474.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> <4383d01d0811101554q52a8e8a3l98d72f1fbc64c1dc@mail.gmail.com> <0A23D80F78C749F7A6EBD2993DDAFD62@Ashley> <000401c944e5$4c5a0fa0$3c64a8c0@nbp2.local> <4383d01d0811140708j1bcaadar136fec407188b8be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Will do! On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: > Let us all know how it goes. > Beth > > On 11/14/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >> Yes, I have e-mailed her and I will be talking to her tonight. >> >> Buddy, that was very creative, and extremely helpful. that did paint a >> clear picture of what I'm going through. >> >> Antonio, yeah, my dad works three jobs to support us and my mum just >> stopped working around two months ago so my family works really hard. >> My grandparents also give us a certain amount of money each year to >> help pay for things. Without all this, there is no way we could go to >> the school I'm in. There are many families, even some that are >> extremely poor, that do everything they can to send their kids to a >> private school. So, because of the cost, my parents just can't pay >> anymore for other things. >> >> I receive mobility training twice a month and I really don't know how >> I get it. All I know is that I've gotten it all my life. >> >> Thank you so much for all your help guys. I'll just talk with people >> and see what we can do. >> >> On 11/12/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Franandiah, >>> >>> Carrie Gilmer's e-mail address is >>> >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> >>> Please write to her, and see the best way to communicate. >>> >>> Maybe you'll need to make some calls to the parent advocate in your >>> state, >>> but first write Carrie at >>> >>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>> >>> Good luck, >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>> >>> >>>> Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The >>>> reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids >>>> in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much >>>> money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, >>>> but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility >>>> training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a >>>> public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned >>>> braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real >>>> confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. >>>> I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the >>>> best time to call. >>>> >>>> On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>> Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive >>>>> scholarship >>>>> programs too. >>>>> Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. >>>>> It's >>>>> scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such >>>>> an >>>>> emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. >>>>> Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, >>>>> it >>>>> will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. >>>>> Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone >>>>> with >>>>> a >>>>> visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific >>>>> methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if >>>>> there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain >>>>> those >>>>> skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you >>>>> will >>>>> grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish >>>>> you >>>>> had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you >>>>> want >>>>> things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have >>>>> given, >>>>> then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Sarah >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> Franandah, >>>>> >>>>> Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our >>>>> suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and >>>>> teachers >>>>> obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision >>>>> but >>>>> its ineffective. >>>>> If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it >>>>> may >>>>> help in them understanding your vision. >>>>> Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, >>>>> its >>>>> expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they >>>>> not >>>>> afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are >>>>> affluent. Something really smells fishy here. >>>>> Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the >>>>> lions >>>>> >>>>> club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >>>>>> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >>>>>> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >>>>>> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >>>>>> adaptive technology. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>>>>>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>>>>>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>>>>>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>>>>>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>>>>>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>>>>>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>>>>>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>>>>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>>>>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>>>>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>>>>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>>>>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>>>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>>>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>>>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so >>>>>>>>> on. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> How? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school >>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get >>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> most. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau >>>>> l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at 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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >>>>> ink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>>> ronto.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Nov 19 16:04:19 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:04:19 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school Message-ID: <20081119160236.VJZI3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Good luck... > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:38:13 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >Will do! >On 11/14/08, Beth wrote: >> Let us all know how it goes. >> Beth >> On 11/14/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>> Yes, I have e-mailed her and I will be talking to her tonight. >>> Buddy, that was very creative, and extremely helpful. that did paint a >>> clear picture of what I'm going through. >>> Antonio, yeah, my dad works three jobs to support us and my mum just >>> stopped working around two months ago so my family works really hard. >>> My grandparents also give us a certain amount of money each year to >>> help pay for things. Without all this, there is no way we could go to >>> the school I'm in. There are many families, even some that are >>> extremely poor, that do everything they can to send their kids to a >>> private school. So, because of the cost, my parents just can't pay >>> anymore for other things. >>> I receive mobility training twice a month and I really don't know how >>> I get it. All I know is that I've gotten it all my life. >>> Thank you so much for all your help guys. I'll just talk with people >>> and see what we can do. >>> On 11/12/08, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Franandiah, >>>> Carrie Gilmer's e-mail address is >>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>> Please write to her, and see the best way to communicate. >>>> Maybe you'll need to make some calls to the parent advocate in your >>>> state, >>>> but first write Carrie at >>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com >>>> Good luck, >>>> Antonio >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>>> Okay, I will .How do I get ahold of this Kerry Gilmer person? The >>>>> reason they can't pay for braille books is becasue there are four kids >>>>> in my family and we all go to a Christian school. That is so much >>>>> money. My dad works three jobs and my mum works one. It takes a lot, >>>>> but I guess that is just what they believe in. I get mobility >>>>> training twice a month and I only got it because I used to go to a >>>>> public school to learn braille. That is my main confusion. I learned >>>>> braille, but why did I if I will never use it? That is my real >>>>> confusion. Why did I waste three years of my life then? I don't know. >>>>> I would love to talk to somone. I just need humbers and whne is the >>>>> best time to call. >>>>> On 11/12/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >>>>>> Maybe most, but not all. Many private schools have extensive >>>>>> scholarship >>>>>> programs too. >>>>>> Franandah, I think what Heather and others have been saying is true. >>>>>> It's >>>>>> scary talking to someone you've never met before, especially about such >>>>>> an >>>>>> emotional topic, but I think it's necessary. >>>>>> Also, when you progress with your studies, or enter the working world, >>>>>> it >>>>>> will be necessary for you to seek out and/or use resources to help you. >>>>>> Unfortunately most people don't know how to properly assist someone >>>>>> with >>>>>> a >>>>>> visual impairment, and so you have to educate them and provide specific >>>>>> methods and resources you can use together to reach a solution. So if >>>>>> there's any plus about your struggle right now it's that you'll gain >>>>>> those >>>>>> skills. I'm so sorry things have been so difficult for you, but you >>>>>> will >>>>>> grow as a strong independent person through these experiences. I wish >>>>>> you >>>>>> had the support of your family, but if you show them how seriously you >>>>>> want >>>>>> things to change, by following the suggestions other listers have >>>>>> given, >>>>>> then hopefully they'll take you more seriously. >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Sarah >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:11 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>>>> Franandah, >>>>>> Last comment from me since your situation cannot be changed by our >>>>>> suggestions; you need an advocate on your side. Your parents and >>>>>> teachers >>>>>> obviously don't understand your vision. Of course you use your vision >>>>>> but >>>>>> its ineffective. >>>>>> If you can get a hold of simulators and have these people wear them it >>>>>> may >>>>>> help in them understanding your vision. >>>>>> Also, it does not make sense how your parents pay for Christian school, >>>>>> its >>>>>> expensive, and do not pay for your other needs to learn. How can they >>>>>> not >>>>>> afford it? Most families who send their kids to private schools are >>>>>> affluent. Something really smells fishy here. >>>>>> Anyway if they can not pay as you say, you can get a group such as the >>>>>> lions >>>>>> club to purchase you an embosser or adaptive equipment. >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Franandah Damstra" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:50 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accommodations in public school >>>>>>> Yeah, everyone knows that I'm leaglly blind, they just say that >>>>>>> because I have sight I should use it. I go to a really poor school and >>>>>>> they say that they won't pay for it. My family just can't pay for >>>>>>> tuition and then on top of that, braille books, embossers, and other >>>>>>> adaptive technology. >>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Does your ophthalmologist have any idea that your 20/800 sight >>>>>>>> classifies you as legally blind under the law? What about the Hadley >>>>>>>> School for the Blind? It's a distance-education school for blind >>>>>>>> people, and you can take high school classes and get a diploma like >>>>>>>> anybody else, and you can also take a fw Bible classes, though they >>>>>>>> don't give credit. As far as a Christian education, you can just go >>>>>>>> to youth group and go to church and participate in choirs and such. >>>>>>>> Thanks for the info. I hope I can help. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> I never used an E chart. I can't see enough to do that. I've always >>>>>>>>> used someones finger and tracked it or something. I do go to an >>>>>>>>> ophthalmologist every year. The eye results I get are given to my >>>>>>>>> parents. My sight is 20/800. that is what I have been told. However, >>>>>>>>> that doesn't seam to matter because my school and TC say "You have >>>>>>>>> some usable sight so use it!" so... >>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> You could use an eye exam results thing. You need to see an >>>>>>>>>> ophthalmologist, someone qualified to look at your eyes. Using E >>>>>>>>>> chart results will put enough pressure on the school. Then, what >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> need to do is talk to an organization like NFB who can help try to >>>>>>>>>> pressure the school into allowing you to have audio books and so >>>>>>>>>> on. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> How? >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Okay. So you could still pressure the heck out of the school >>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>> you get what you need. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have mobility training, just no braille books and technology. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would pressure the heck out of the school until you get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more mobility training. I get training once a week at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> most. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Franandah Damstra >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am soposted to get large print books and assingments, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always forgets so I'm always behind in school. I have extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and mobility training twice a month. I really would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> swich >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to braille though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend who said she got her stuff enlarged while she >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough sight. She's going blind year by year, and she's fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had orientation and mobility training too - an hour a week >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was pretty awesome. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Hope Paulos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had brailled handouts, brailled texts and audio texts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orientation and mobility training and extra time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were extremely effective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Rania" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:34:38 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I had braille extra time on tests my books and hand outs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also brailled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations in public school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm asking this for a class as well as to compare my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had pretty decent services. I got braille and audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my TVI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was good at giving braille handouts and I got extra time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we have discussed before, I struggled fitting in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my psychology of individuals with disabilities class, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present about visual impairment and accomodations and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact. So my questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What accomodations did you use? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Were they effective? If you used print you may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more effective >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. What should have been done that was not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common accomodations I can think of are: large print or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handouts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio texts, and extended time on tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.pau >>>>>> l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> os%40maine.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthl >>>>>> ink.net >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3603 (20081111) __________ >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jev nikar%40uto >>>>>> ronto.ca >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimarae s%40nbp.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfa natic01%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Wed Nov 19 16:20:24 2008 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:20:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Huge Price Reduction on K-NFB and K-ReaderMobileSoftware! Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earle Harrison" > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Huge Price Reduction on K-NFB and K-Reader MobileSoftware! Handy Tech North America is pleased to announce the most significant price reduction of the world's most portable, and now most affordable camera based image capture and read technology. Effective immediately, and just in time for the holidays, customers will enjoy a $600.00 price reduction in the K Reader and K-NFB Reader Mobile software Products. Just released in January of 2008, both the K-Reader and K-NFB Reader Mobile software were priced at $1,595.00. The new price is $995.00. We at Handy Tech North America both applaud and appreciate this incredible development because it places this awesome technology well within the grasp of consumers who simply couldn't afford it before. We understand that for some, $1,495.00 the new cost of the K-Reader and K-NFB Reader with Nokia N82 Mobile bundle, may as well be a million dollars because some people don't have that either, but considering that only 2 years ago the original reader cost $3500.00 is amazing! I would challenge those who would argue that the cost is still too high, to name another product in the assistive technology industry that has come down in price by $2000 over a two year period, I can't think of one myself at the moment. Here is the new price breakdown: K-NFB Reader Software only: $995.00 - for people who already own a supported phone such as the N82 and would like to install the software themselves. Nokia N82 and K-NFB Reader installed and configured: $1,495.00 - for people who have no immediate desire to access the features of the phone, but want a portable and reliable means of accessing print materials. Nokia N82, K-NFB Reader and choice of Mobile Speak or Talks screen reader installed and configured: $1,795.00 - for people who want access to print materials and wish to access the >> features of the phone such as messaging, contacts, calendar appointments and much more. Nokia N-82, K-NFB Reader, choice of either Talks or Mobile Speak screen reader, Way Finder Access GPS navigation software with GPS receiver installed and configured: $2,295.00 - for people who want to add GPS navigation to an accessible phone and the world's most portable means of accessing printed materials. The above pricing is subject to change without notice. For more information call Handy Tech North America at: 651-636-5184 or e-mail: sales at handytech.us Best Regards, Earle Harrison Handy Tech North America Ph: 651-636-5184 Fx: 866-347-8249 Em: earle at handytech.us Wb: www.handytech.us -------------- next part -------------- BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Tanner, David TEL;WORK:651-642-0795 ORG:;SSB TEL;PREF;FAX:651-649-5927 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:DTANNER at ngwmail.des.state.mn.us N:Tanner;David TITLE:Rehab Tech Spec END:VCARD From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 19 20:00:15 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:00:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] research methods References: <001d01c93a34$8bd014b0$0201a8c0@Serene> <4D39B58205DE45FEA80E429F87A30537@Ashley> Message-ID: <011a01c94a81$70d3b8d0$0201a8c0@Serene> Yes, I worked with a librarian 1 on 1. I directed readers to read the contents, headings, and index. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > Serena, > > Research is a struggle for me. > You say you used librarians to find books. Did you have to meet one to > one for this? > > Books are hard copy sources and require readers. I am finding I had to > use books as well for my senior paper on child obesity. Articles will > focus on one thing and one study whereas books have a little of > everything: causes, > prevalence, and treatment. > So once you have the book(s) how do you direct the reader to get what you > want? I've asked them to read contents and headings so far but its so > challenging. For instance we read ten pages of a chapter before I > realized it wasn't going to be useful. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research methods > > >>I used the library data bases. Proquest Direct and Ebscohost are pretty >>accessible. If the articles were relatively short, I read them all the >>way through with Jaws, but if they were really long, I used readers. The >>librarians often helped me find books. That often helped, so I wouldn't >>have to use readers for that. >> >> Serena >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] research methods >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I wanted some more ideas on this. Then I'll have a sheet with ideas for >>> myself and others wo ask me. I am about to begin a big research paper >>> for my senior class. All seniors do this to demonstrate critical >>> thinking, organization and writing skills. Research has been quite >>> challenging. I use readers a lot but its hard to communicate what I am >>> looking for. Much research is at the library and books and some other >>> matterial is not accessible. So my questions. >>> >>> Do you use your school's databases? What ones are jaws friendly? Its >>> been my experience that databases are not very accessible. There are >>> lots of boxes and info before jaws reads the titles of articles. In an >>> article I'm sure you read the abstract first to determine relevance. I >>> do as wel. >>> >>> How do you skim the article for relevant info? Or perhaps you read it >>> all? Scholarly articles are big, about twenty pages long on average >>> from my experience. With jaws or a reader, skipping info is hard since I >>> don't know what I'm looking for exactly. >>> How do you cite pages? Does someone read you the page numbers as well? >>> This has been problematic for me. I write notes but don't know later >>> what page it was on and cannot skim the article for that info. >>> >>> Have you used the librarians for help? If so, what role did they play? >>> Did you ask them to search for you and they read you the titles of >>> articles/books? I have used them and they pointed me to the right >>> databases and card catalog for books but also served as a reader sort of >>> as we gathered info. >>> >>> I find research frustrating when you think something sounds great and >>> read it but then its not so good. I think this happens to all students, >>> but since it takes longer for us its more frustrating. >>> >>> Any ideas are appreciated. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3567 (20081029) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3568 (20081030) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 20:16:14 2008 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:16:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 Message-ID: <4924741d.04c2f10a.256a.0206@mx.google.com> To all interested and able to attend here is an announcement from the USABA: Additionally for parents a note: There appears to be a connection here with NAPVI, where NE Chapter of it has said they have kids to bring and there looks to be some informal networking planned between parents during the time the kids are hitting the slopes. I do not place this information out as an endorsement of NAPVI or mention it as a reason to avoid going. I say if you can, go ski, meet some other parents and maybe you can do something to support them! It really is a USABA event and I am all for our kids getting more physically challenged, and learning about the competitions available through paraolympic sports. I was able to meet Mark Lucas, USABA director last week and he is a great guy, and I look forward to seeing how we can connect with them organizationally in the future to promote activeness for blind kids. Best, Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _____ From: United States Association of Blind Athletes [mailto:etap at usaba.org] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:15 PM To: Carrie Gilmer Subject: Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 USABA Breaking News Banner Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 Blind and Visually Impaired Skiers take to the slopes in Vermont (November 6, 2008) - The United States Association of Blind Athletes (USABA) is proud to announce their Second Annual Winter Ski Festival in Killington, Vt., Fri., Jan. 16 through Sun. Jan 18. Athletes with visual impairment will be given the opportunity to learn to ski or learn to race in the sports of alpine and nordic skiing, while spending an enjoyable weekend in the Green Mountains of Vermont. USABA in conjunction with Vermont Adaptive, the Gibney Family Foundation and U.S. Paralympics is proud to offer this recreational opportunity to individuals with visual impairments. This event is open to all ages and all abilities. Whether the participants are first-time skiers or competitive racers, the festival will be catered to each athlete's ability. "USABA is extremely pleased to partner with Vermont Adaptive Ski and Sport, the Gibney Family Foundation and U.S. Paralympics to provide a wonderful opportunity for blind and visually impaired skiers including military service members and veterans with eye injuries to further develop and enhance their alpine and Nordic skiing skills," said Mark Lucas, USABA's executive director. "We are also excited to partner with the NE Chapter of the National Association of Parents of the Visually who will bring their children to participate in the ski programs while parents conduct support meetings to share information and resources for their children." Guides and instructors are provided by Vermont Adaptive Ski & Sport, a non-profit organization located in Vermont, which is committed to empowering individuals with disabilities. Vermont Adaptive will pair each blind and visually impaired skier with a trained ski guide to practice and learn skills in either genre of learn to ski or race. All skill levels are welcome from beginner to advanced. Participants will stay at a local hotel and will have transportation provided to them for the daily events. The weekend will conclude with a banquet dinner held at the Killington Grand Hotel and will feature a key-note speaker of Paralympics stature. Alpine skiing will be hosted at Pico Ski Resort in Killington, Vt.; while Nordic will be at Mountain Top Inn in Chittenden, Vt. This event will also be hosted as a Paralympic Academy. Local Paralympic Academy events serve as an introduction to Paralympic sport and allow participants to try different activities. The participants will also be introduced to the Paralympic sport of goalball and are encouraged to participate. For more information and an application go to www.usaba.org or contact: Mark Lucas at USABA at: (719) 630-0422 or Donna Stanley at VT Adaptive: (802) 353-7584 Since its founding in 1976, USABA, a community-based organization of the United States Olympic Committee, has reached more than 100,000 blind individuals. The organization has emerged as more than just a world-class trainer of blind athletes, it has become a champion of the abilities of Americans who are legally blind. USABA's Mission: to enhance the lives of blind and visually impaired people by providing the opportunity for participation in sports and physical activity. For more information, please visit our Web site: www.usaba.org Vermont Adaptive Ski and Sport Logo Vt Paralympic Sport Academy Logo From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 21:17:57 2008 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:17:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing light rail tracks References: <20081119160236.VJZI3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <410010B336144DC7AD36AE0E561FC016@Bird> Hello all, On December 27, the Phoenix area gets its first taste (hopefully) of light rail transit. The ads are already warning about the quietness of the trains and advising pedestrians to look both ways before crossing. My question is this: How do blind people cross the street when there are tracks? Ben From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Nov 19 21:31:37 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:31:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 In-Reply-To: <4924741d.04c2f10a.256a.0206@mx.google.com> References: <4924741d.04c2f10a.256a.0206@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Oh I loooooove skiing! I hope some of you can go - enjoy yourselves! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carrie Gilmer Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:16 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)'; 'Parents of Blind Children State Presidents List'; 'NOPBC Board of Directors'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 To all interested and able to attend here is an announcement from the USABA: Additionally for parents a note: There appears to be a connection here with NAPVI, where NE Chapter of it has said they have kids to bring and there looks to be some informal networking planned between parents during the time the kids are hitting the slopes. I do not place this information out as an endorsement of NAPVI or mention it as a reason to avoid going. I say if you can, go ski, meet some other parents and maybe you can do something to support them! It really is a USABA event and I am all for our kids getting more physically challenged, and learning about the competitions available through paraolympic sports. I was able to meet Mark Lucas, USABA director last week and he is a great guy, and I look forward to seeing how we can connect with them organizationally in the future to promote activeness for blind kids. Best, Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc _____ From: United States Association of Blind Athletes [mailto:etap at usaba.org] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:15 PM To: Carrie Gilmer Subject: Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 USABA Breaking News Banner Second Annual Ski Festival Kicks off January 16, 2009 Blind and Visually Impaired Skiers take to the slopes in Vermont (November 6, 2008) - The United States Association of Blind Athletes (USABA) is proud to announce their Second Annual Winter Ski Festival in Killington, Vt., Fri., Jan. 16 through Sun. Jan 18. Athletes with visual impairment will be given the opportunity to learn to ski or learn to race in the sports of alpine and nordic skiing, while spending an enjoyable weekend in the Green Mountains of Vermont. USABA in conjunction with Vermont Adaptive, the Gibney Family Foundation and U.S. Paralympics is proud to offer this recreational opportunity to individuals with visual impairments. This event is open to all ages and all abilities. Whether the participants are first-time skiers or competitive racers, the festival will be catered to each athlete's ability. "USABA is extremely pleased to partner with Vermont Adaptive Ski and Sport, the Gibney Family Foundation and U.S. Paralympics to provide a wonderful opportunity for blind and visually impaired skiers including military service members and veterans with eye injuries to further develop and enhance their alpine and Nordic skiing skills," said Mark Lucas, USABA's executive director. "We are also excited to partner with the NE Chapter of the National Association of Parents of the Visually who will bring their children to participate in the ski programs while parents conduct support meetings to share information and resources for their children." Guides and instructors are provided by Vermont Adaptive Ski & Sport, a non-profit organization located in Vermont, which is committed to empowering individuals with disabilities. Vermont Adaptive will pair each blind and visually impaired skier with a trained ski guide to practice and learn skills in either genre of learn to ski or race. All skill levels are welcome from beginner to advanced. Participants will stay at a local hotel and will have transportation provided to them for the daily events. The weekend will conclude with a banquet dinner held at the Killington Grand Hotel and will feature a key-note speaker of Paralympics stature. Alpine skiing will be hosted at Pico Ski Resort in Killington, Vt.; while Nordic will be at Mountain Top Inn in Chittenden, Vt. This event will also be hosted as a Paralympic Academy. Local Paralympic Academy events serve as an introduction to Paralympic sport and allow participants to try different activities. The participants will also be introduced to the Paralympic sport of goalball and are encouraged to participate. For more information and an application go to www.usaba.org or contact: Mark Lucas at USABA at: (719) 630-0422 or Donna Stanley at VT Adaptive: (802) 353-7584 Since its founding in 1976, USABA, a community-based organization of the United States Olympic Committee, has reached more than 100,000 blind individuals. The organization has emerged as more than just a world-class trainer of blind athletes, it has become a champion of the abilities of Americans who are legally blind. USABA's Mission: to enhance the lives of blind and visually impaired people by providing the opportunity for participation in sports and physical activity. For more information, please visit our Web site: www.usaba.org Vermont Adaptive Ski and Sport Logo Vt Paralympic Sport Academy Logo _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From startrekcafe at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 00:21:00 2008 From: startrekcafe at gmail.com (Marvin Hunkin) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:21:00 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Pop fly Accessibility Message-ID: <347C8DC60F934926A73CB94F8E3D9516@marvinPC> Hi. is Microsoft 2.0 web application development accessible with Jaws? cheers Marvin. From startrekcafe at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 00:37:38 2008 From: startrekcafe at gmail.com (Marvin Hunkin) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:37:38 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Imagine Cup Contest Message-ID: <7CC5D12CA1F3433DAF7ABA4432D74BD1@marvinPC> Hi. i received the msdn flash from microsoft, as a programming student. now, registered for the Imagine Cup 2009 Student Contest at http://www.ImagineCup.com, run by Microsoft. now, was thinking about entering as a team, and the theme for 2009 is the united nations changing the world by technology. now, there are 8 categories. and the one i am interested in, is the web development, where they use Microsoft Pop Fly web 2.0. so is this accessible with Jaws? was thinking of updating my disability database that i started as a web project several years ago. long story, so will not go into that right now. now, needs revamping, and the interface needs totally reworking, as did have frames, but decided did not like frames, as regard to accessibility, so, was thinking of using my current project, which i changed the interface seveal times, and the project is partly designed, but still needs revamping. the database, would allow users to be able to find information on a range of disaibilities, services, and links to resources, articles, and other information. what do you think of this approach and project? have registered and now, have just read the conditions of the contest and a enrolled student. so might then join the forums, and maybe see if there are other like minded people there, who are blind or have low vision, or just willing to join me in my team. so then i can get this project up and running at last. have been meaning to go and have a look and totally revamp and rebuild, but been on the bakc burner for a number of years. and it was coded in html 4.0, xhtml 1.0, i think, and has css, and also images. what do you think about this possible idea for the project and to enter the contest? now do not jump down my throat Paul. now, any constructive feedback would be appreciative. cheers Marvin. From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 00:37:31 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:37:31 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview References: Message-ID: In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this interview to you. ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway Begin forwarded message: From: LPovinelli at aol.com Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview Interview by Rob Carnevale FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one of the most expensive jokes he’s ever played. He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, and why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv Fichman, the Canadian, he didn’t know I was going to direct. They first developed the script and then they tried to think about the possible director. They said they thought about me first, but I don’t believe it. Saramago didn’t know I was going to do it. They just told him later. Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another book that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City of God. So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about City of God. So, it wasn’t a big deal. At that point, I’d been doing commercials for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my life was very boring. So, I just bought City of God and started working on it. Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went to Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner and I thought he was going to answer them but he didn’t want to. He said: “It’s my book and this is your film, so let’s not mix them up…” I really wanted to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was right. If he’d told me something about specific characters or events in the film I would try to follow whatever he’d said and not what I was thinking. I would have been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy that he didn’t want to talk about his book. Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor’s wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film should be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he didn’t want the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very generic; and the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, we had a big dog but he hated it [laughs]. Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to Lisbon because he couldn’t come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn’t say anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn’t talk! I was sure he hated the film and didn’t know how to tell me. But then the lights came on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as he was when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated in front of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little camera and then at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. So, if you go to YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my name, this is the first thing that pops up. There’s like 200,000 hits already. My son’s footage is more successful than mine! But it’s a very moving moment because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. I was sure he hated it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed him. I don’t kiss people a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so moved. Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it was that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I came from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner together and he presented the screening. I didn’t stay to see it but before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. He said: “Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it’s a great film.” He talked about the violence in the film and he really loved the texture of the tension… Again, he was very, very happy, so that was good news for me. But, again, he didn’t like the dog. And that’s an important thing to me because I had read this interview and among all his characters that he’d written for this book, he was asked which was his favourite and he said: “I could kill all my characters but the dog of tears.” So, for him the dog was really important and that’s why it was the only character he had something to ask for. And I missed it! Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were preparing the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they [The National Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they didn’t approve of the project and they’d only approve if we sent them the script so they could revise and correct it. They were very bossy. So, we politely answered that they could have their own opinion, etc, etc, but it was our film. So, as promised, before we released the film they told us they were going to demonstrate and they carried out demonstrations in front of 75 cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To be honest, they missed the point completely. They thought the film tells the audience that blind people can’t be adapted, that blind people can’t work because they’re stupid and aggressive and it has nothing to do with blind people. It’s about human nature. It’s about people just going blind and losing their humanity. It’s a totally different story. Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of his songs? Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that happened when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene where Gael [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract everyone’s attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in his hand and so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called To Say I Love You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot it. I wasn’t sure I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so finally I decided to use the joke and we bought the rights. That was the most expensive joke in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we paid. Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. So what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests against something before it’s been released? Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that this organisation don’t really work for blind people. It’s more like a PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for blind people for adaptation or school. They don’t have that. It’s just a news agency and it’s about promoting the idea that blind people can adapt. That’s fair. But I think their decision to protest before seeing or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago’s reply was quite aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human blindness] there’s some people who can see but are blind, and some blind people who are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can be. Q. Is this the first film you’ve made that’s not been praised by the international press? Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We’ve had some good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good review. It was really divided. But it’s a difficult film. There’s people who love the book and those who can’t read it to the end. The good news is that the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an investment to do 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. So, we did 95 prints and we thought we were going to do 300,000 tickets. The Constant Gardener did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a harder film so we thought that maybe it would do less. But now the film is now going to go to 900,000 and we might make a million. And that’s with no investment. It’s all word of mouth. We released eight weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 prints going on because the cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are responding very well… in Mexico as well. But in the US the film didn’t work at all. I don’t know why. They released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The American audience wasn’t interested in seeing the story. They opened very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn’t show up. They saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn’t want to see a depressing film. So, they didn’t go. If the film hadn’t been so successful in Brazil or Mexico I’d say it was a problem with the film. But I’d say it’s a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really creating a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their jobs, losing their houses and losing their investments. It’s not a good moment for dark stories… because in the same week that we released Blindness, Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and was a big hit! Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the process, which you took part in as well. What did you discover about yourself while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every person’s worst nightmares? Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded people for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there was always two or three people who, at some point after two or three hours, would sit down and cry. They really, really couldn’t go on – but we wouldn’t let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go there and say: “No, let’s keep going.” But for me, it was the opposite. It was so comfortable and so cosy. I remember I did it twice. The first time we did a lot of things and we were taken to a restaurant, we were served and we had to eat while blindfolded. After lunch, the guy said we could remove our blindfolds but I didn’t want to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for another eight minutes. It was so pleasant being with myself. It’s so good because when you’re talking to people you don’t see their faces. When I’m talking to you [now] I have expressions, I’m trying to engage you. But if you can’t see, it’s much more free. It’s so liberating. Another thing I’ve found, which is so interesting, is that when you’re blindfolded and you’re talking to somebody the conversation goes to places that it would never go if you could see the other person’s reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It’s such an interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending the day in a blindfold. It’s really, really interesting. Delicious Digg Reddit Facebook Stumbleupon Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to his movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows nothing about the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We operate three model training centers in the United States that offer the best available rehabilitation training to help people adapt to blindness, and we are very involved in mentoring blind youth and encouraging them to participate in careers that are falsely thought to be closed to the blind. And those things are just the tip of the iceberg. In our sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good for blind people than any single organization that claims to “work for the blind.” This is because we are an organization of blind people, and blind people are in the best position to know what blind people truly need. The biggest problem that blind people face is the public misconceptions and misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, so public education is a critically important part of our mission, but it is not true to say that we are simply a “PR organization.” — Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! From amylsabo at comcast.net Thu Nov 20 00:44:45 2008 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:44:45 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing light rail tracks Message-ID: <112020080044.13385.4924B2FD0000F3C6000034492205889116010D0E9C0497030E@comcast.net> hello ben, that's awesome that phoneix is getting a light rail system there. what i do since i use light rail all the time in denver to travel to school and back and to do other things in the city is that i just listen to the sounds of the whistle of the train and also listen for people walking. also, i listen to noises like roller bags, bikes, or other stuff like that. i hope this will help you out in using the light rail system. take care and i will talk to you soon! hugs, amy -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ben J. Bloomgren" > Hello all, > > On December 27, the Phoenix area gets its first taste (hopefully) of light > rail transit. The ads are already warning about the quietness of the trains > and advising pedestrians to look both ways before crossing. My question is > this: How do blind people cross the street when there are tracks? > > Ben > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Thu Nov 20 00:57:09 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:57:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20081117214638.GC56240@yumi.bluecherry.net> <587556.29934.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Harry: Most of us, as blind persons feel inadequate in one way or another. I think we all draw lines in our own minds -- that is, we say, I know a blind person can do a lot, but she can't ... We draw the line somewhere as to what we can and can't do. And ... I am 55, and keep having that line challenged, as you will. There are of course blatant sight things like driving that we can't do, but there is much else. As an example, at one time I would have said that a blind guy couldn['t do welding. Then, I was told about a blind guy in Nebraska who did it for a living. I can think of other examples. Dave At 07:52 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even >come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. > >You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am >not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the >things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the >crux of the matter. They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, >but can they really? Cutting Christmas trees, for example. I don't >know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas >tree with no sighteed help? > >Harry > >P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. > >--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM > >That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >you're >impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >"But I >am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >minds >were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. > >All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think >politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about >why we call >the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I >agree with out >of the two - blind and alternative. > > > >Harry > > > > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >wrote: > > > >From: T. Joseph Carter > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > > > >Harry, > > > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces > >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. > >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > > > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you > >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, > >you've > >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, > >or you'd best not say anything. > > > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have > >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any > >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that > >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > > > >Joseph > > > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about >the > >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically > >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >but yet > >we also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative." I > >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >techniques" > >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >are on > >our termonology. > >> > >> > >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: > >> > >>From: Chris Westbrook > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >> > >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > >impaired > >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with > >another > >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing > >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness > >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >to > >speak, > >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I > >do > >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that > >certain > >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings > >and > >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call > >myself > >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >to > >call > >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >you > >are > >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >find > >myself > >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >> > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >> > >> > >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >>> > >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take > >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much > >but am > >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >>> > >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > >>> > >>> Joseph > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >wrote: > >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >was a > >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. > >Just as > >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > >reading the > >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >all > >of you > >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual > >vision. > >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >even > >know > >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others > >out > >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > >blindness. > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> Corbb O'Connor > >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board > >and > >>as > >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently > >>noticed > >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >be a > >good > >>one. It > >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of > >people. > >>These > >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not > >>want to > >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired > >person... > >>this > >>>> group is for you too! > >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the > >fact > >>that we > >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >believing > >that > >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to > >be > >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >>>> > >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get > >blurred > >>and if > >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >get > >these > >>new > >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one > >specific > >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >to be > >the > >>most > >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > >>"Attention > >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >makes > >>some sense > >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify > >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the > >>terminology > >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation > >family? > >>>> > >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer > >to > >>other > >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >email > >>subject line > >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually > >announced > >>to the NABS > >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually > >>Impaired > >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >"new > >>blindness > >>>> group of facebook! > >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific > >group or > >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually > >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >also. > >I > >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant > >>example. > >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe > >that > >>perhaps > >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >lax > >and > >>blur > >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >all > >blind > >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not > >as > >>solid > >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >Federation...?> > >>>> > >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among > >us > >>debate > >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our > >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and > >>what it > >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >of > >>importance? > >>>> > >>>> Thoughtfully yours, > >>>> > >>>> Janice > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >> > >>>> To: "NABS list serve" > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Karen and all, > >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > >>nonmembers. > >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > >>philosophy of the > >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >word > >>"Blind" is sometimes a > >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >accept > >their > >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >one > >of > >>them. I > >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >as > >>blind. I felt > >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > >>impaired". The acceptance > >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >person > >goes > >>through > >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >blind > >role > >>models, > >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >short. > >It is > >>simply > >>>>> a > >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >can > >>promote NFB > >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > >>philosophy. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yours, > >>>>> Terri Rupp, President > >>>>> National Association of Blind Students > >>>>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjo > seph%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue% > 40yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjos > eph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: >11/16/2008 7:58 PM From dandrews at visi.com Thu Nov 20 01:00:54 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:00:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <4922267e.e203be0a.7e66.ffffa76c@mx.google.com> References: <4922267e.e203be0a.7e66.ffffa76c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: There was a blind guy who used to live in New Jersey, who I have it on good authority built his own house. He also put himself through college being an auto mechanic. Dave At 08:21 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >Well, I really want to believe it too, but I honestly don't think a >totally blind person can cut down a Christmas tree, or design and >build an elaborate house, or any other task involving intense >manual labor with no assistance >whatsoever. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Harry Hogue >Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even >come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. > >You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am >not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the >things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the >crux of the matter. They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, >but can they really? Cutting Christmas trees, for example. I don't >know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas >tree with no sighteed help? > >Harry > >P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. > >--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM > >That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >you're >impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >"But I >am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >minds >were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. > >All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think >politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about >why we call >the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I >agree with out >of the two - blind and alternative. > > > >Harry > > > > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >wrote: > > > >From: T. Joseph Carter > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > > > >Harry, > > > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces > >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. > >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > > > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you > >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, > >you've > >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, > >or you'd best not say anything. > > > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have > >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any > >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that > >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > > > >Joseph > > > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about >the > >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically > >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >but yet > >we also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative." I > >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >techniques" > >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >are on > >our termonology. > >> > >> > >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: > >> > >>From: Chris Westbrook > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >> > >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > >impaired > >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with > >another > >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing > >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness > >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >to > >speak, > >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I > >do > >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that > >certain > >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings > >and > >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call > >myself > >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >to > >call > >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >you > >are > >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >find > >myself > >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >> > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >> > >> > >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >>> > >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take > >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much > >but am > >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >>> > >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > >>> > >>> Joseph > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >wrote: > >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >was a > >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. > >Just as > >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > >reading the > >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >all > >of you > >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual > >vision. > >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >even > >know > >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others > >out > >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > >blindness. > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> Corbb O'Connor > >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board > >and > >>as > >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently > >>noticed > >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >be a > >good > >>one. It > >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of > >people. > >>These > >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not > >>want to > >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired > >person... > >>this > >>>> group is for you too! > >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the > >fact > >>that we > >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >believing > >that > >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to > >be > >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >>>> > >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get > >blurred > >>and if > >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >get > >these > >>new > >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one > >specific > >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >to be > >the > >>most > >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > >>"Attention > >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >makes > >>some sense > >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify > >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the > >>terminology > >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation > >family? > >>>> > >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer > >to > >>other > >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >email > >>subject line > >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually > >announced > >>to the NABS > >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually > >>Impaired > >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >"new > >>blindness > >>>> group of facebook! > >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific > >group or > >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually > >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >also. > >I > >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant > >>example. > >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe > >that > >>perhaps > >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >lax > >and > >>blur > >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >all > >blind > >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not > >as > >>solid > >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >Federation...?> > >>>> > >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among > >us > >>debate > >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our > >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and > >>what it > >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >of > >>importance? > >>>> > >>>> Thoughtfully yours, > >>>> > >>>> Janice > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >> > >>>> To: "NABS list serve" > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Karen and all, > >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > >>nonmembers. > >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > >>philosophy of the > >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >word > >>"Blind" is sometimes a > >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >accept > >their > >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >one > >of > >>them. I > >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >as > >>blind. I felt > >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > >>impaired". The acceptance > >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >person > >goes > >>through > >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >blind > >role > >>models, > >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >short. > >It is > >>simply > >>>>> a > >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >can > >>promote NFB > >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > >>philosophy. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yours, > >>>>> Terri Rupp, President > >>>>> National Association of Blind Students > >>>>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjo > seph%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue% > 40yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjos > eph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: >11/16/2008 7:58 PM From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 02:32:47 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:32:47 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, that ever-popular false distinction between "blind people" and human beings who happen to go blind! Maybe Mr. Meirelles should sit down and chat with some of our members who have lost their vision rapidly, who unlike the film characters learned to lead full, productive lives in spite of sudden vision loss... Not to mention that Meirelles' description of the NFB is just plain wrong! It's amazing how many people misunderstand the very basic problem we have with the book and film... Arielle On 11/20/08, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this > interview to you. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: LPovinelli at aol.com > Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT > Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Interview by Rob Carnevale > > > FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The > Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the > controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one > of the most expensive jokes he's ever played. > > He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his > own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, > and why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. > > Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, > did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of > my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv > Fichman, the Canadian, he didn't know I was going to direct. They > first developed the script and then they tried to think about the > possible director. They said they thought about me first, but I don't > believe it. Saramago didn't know I was going to do it. They just told > him later. > > Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? > Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another > book that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City > of God. So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about > City of God. So, it wasn't a big deal. At that point, I'd been doing > commercials for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my > life was very boring. So, I just bought City of God and started > working on it. > > Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? > Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went > to Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner > and I thought he was going to answer them but he didn't want to. He > said: "It's my book and this is your film, so let's not mix them up…" > I really wanted to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was > right. If he'd told me something about specific characters or events > in the film I would try to follow whatever he'd said and not what I > was thinking. I would have been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy > that he didn't want to talk about his book. > > Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? > Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor's > wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an > actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years > younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film > should be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he > didn't want the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very > generic; and the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, > we had a big dog but he hated it [laughs]. > > Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? > Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to > Lisbon because he couldn't come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad > cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn't say > anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn't talk! I was sure > he hated the film and didn't know how to tell me. But then the lights > came on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as > he was when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated > in front of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little > camera and then at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. > So, if you go to YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my > name, this is the first thing that pops up. There's like 200,000 hits > already. My son's footage is more successful than mine! But it's a > very moving moment because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. > I was sure he hated it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed > him. I don't kiss people a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so > moved. > > Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the > book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? > Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, > because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and > different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it > was that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I > came from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner > together and he presented the screening. I didn't stay to see it but > before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. > He said: "Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it's a great > film." He talked about the violence in the film and he really loved > the texture of the tension… Again, he was very, very happy, so that > was good news for me. But, again, he didn't like the dog. And that's > an important thing to me because I had read this interview and among > all his characters that he'd written for this book, he was asked which > was his favourite and he said: "I could kill all my characters but the > dog of tears." So, for him the dog was really important and that's why > it was the only character he had something to ask for. And I missed it! > > Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? > Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were > preparing the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they > [The National Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they > didn't approve of the project and they'd only approve if we sent them > the script so they could revise and correct it. They were very bossy. > So, we politely answered that they could have their own opinion, etc, > etc, but it was our film. So, as promised, before we released the film > they told us they were going to demonstrate and they carried out > demonstrations in front of 75 cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To > be honest, they missed the point completely. They thought the film > tells the audience that blind people can't be adapted, that blind > people can't work because they're stupid and aggressive and it has > nothing to do with blind people. It's about human nature. It's about > people just going blind and losing their humanity. It's a totally > different story. > > Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of > his songs? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that > happened when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene > where Gael [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract > everyone's attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in > his hand and so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called > To Say I Love You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot > it. I wasn't sure I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so > finally I decided to use the joke and we bought the rights. That was > the most expensive joke in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we > paid. > > Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. > So what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests > against something before it's been released? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that > this organisation don't really work for blind people. It's more like a > PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an > organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for > blind people for adaptation or school. They don't have that. It's just > a news agency and it's about promoting the idea that blind people can > adapt. That's fair. But I think their decision to protest before > seeing or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago's reply was > quite aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human > blindness] there's some people who can see but are blind, and some > blind people who are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can > be. > > Q. Is this the first film you've made that's not been praised by the > international press? > Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We've had some > good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good > review. It was really divided. But it's a difficult film. There's > people who love the book and those who can't read it to the end. The > good news is that the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an > investment to do 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. > So, we did 95 prints and we thought we were going to do 300,000 > tickets. The Constant Gardener did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a > harder film so we thought that maybe it would do less. But now the > film is now going to go to 900,000 and we might make a million. And > that's with no investment. It's all word of mouth. We released eight > weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 prints going on because the > cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are responding very well… in > Mexico as well. > > But in the US the film didn't work at all. I don't know why. They > released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The > American audience wasn't interested in seeing the story. They opened > very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn't show up. They > saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn't want to see a > depressing film. So, they didn't go. If the film hadn't been so > successful in Brazil or Mexico I'd say it was a problem with the film. > But I'd say it's a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really > creating a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their > jobs, losing their houses and losing their investments. It's not a > good moment for dark stories… because in the same week that we > released Blindness, Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and > was a big hit! > > Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the > process, which you took part in as well. What did you discover about > yourself while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every > person's worst nightmares? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded > people for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there > was always two or three people who, at some point after two or three > hours, would sit down and cry. They really, really couldn't go on – > but we wouldn't let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go > there and say: "No, let's keep going." But for me, it was the > opposite. It was so comfortable and so cosy. I remember I did it > twice. The first time we did a lot of things and we were taken to a > restaurant, we were served and we had to eat while blindfolded. After > lunch, the guy said we could remove our blindfolds but I didn't want > to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for another eight minutes. It > was so pleasant being with myself. It's so good because when you're > talking to people you don't see their faces. When I'm talking to you > [now] I have expressions, I'm trying to engage you. But if you can't > see, it's much more free. It's so liberating. > > Another thing I've found, which is so interesting, is that when you're > blindfolded and you're talking to somebody the conversation goes to > places that it would never go if you could see the other person's > reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It's such an > interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending > the day in a blindfold. It's really, really interesting. > > Delicious > Digg > Reddit > Facebook > Stumbleupon > Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to > his movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows > nothing about the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We > operate three model training centers in the United States that offer > the best available rehabilitation training to help people adapt to > blindness, and we are very involved in mentoring blind youth and > encouraging them to participate in careers that are falsely thought to > be closed to the blind. And those things are just the tip of the > iceberg. In our sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good > for blind people than any single organization that claims to "work for > the blind." This is because we are an organization of blind people, > and blind people are in the best position to know what blind people > truly need. The biggest problem that blind people face is the public > misconceptions and misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, > so public education is a critically important part of our mission, but > it is not true to say that we are simply a "PR organization." > > > — Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # > > > > > > > One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and > the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Nov 20 03:54:09 2008 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:54:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <718879.86709.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Welding?  I just don't see how that's possible, but there we go with the "lines" again.   I think, though, that human beigns in general draw lines as to waht we can do, and that if you add some disability like blindness, deafness, a mobility impairment, etc. the attention to just lines is emphasized so you notice all the "little" things.  Does that make sense?  It's the idea that while you have something you don't really pay to much attention it but once you don't have it anymore you suddenly notice all the little/big things that you suddenly can't do anymore or that you can imagine you you coul do.  For me, my comparison has always been, "well a totally blind person couldn't... but you could if you had a little vison, etc."  A good friend o mine has RP and is losing her ability to see things in her perifery (actually she doesn't have any to speak of).  It really hit home when she told me that she can't trust her vision, that she is scared of falling, that I realized, "She really does need the cane and the training that I'm giving her."  She is a part of the NFB -- she is the secretary of our chapter, in fact.   --- On Wed, 11/19/08, David Andrews wrote: From: David Andrews Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 6:57 PM Harry: Most of us, as blind persons feel inadequate in one way or another. I think we all draw lines in our own minds -- that is, we say, I know a blind person can do a lot, but she can't ... We draw the line somewhere as to what we can and can't do. And ... I am 55, and keep having that line challenged, as you will. There are of course blatant sight things like driving that we can't do, but there is much else. As an example, at one time I would have said that a blind guy couldn['t do welding. Then, I was told about a blind guy in Nebraska who did it for a living. I can think of other examples. Dave At 07:52 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even >come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. > >You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am >not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the >things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the >crux of the matter. They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, >but can they really? Cutting Christmas trees, for example. I don't >know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas >tree with no sighteed help? > >Harry > >P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. > >--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >From: T. Joseph Carter >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM > >That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >you're >impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >"But I >am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >minds >were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. > >All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. > >Joseph > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think >politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about >why we call >the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I >agree with out >of the two - blind and alternative. > > > >Harry > > > > > >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >wrote: > > > >From: T. Joseph Carter > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM > > > >Harry, > > > >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces > >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. > >Morally, that seems wrong to me. > > > >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you > >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, > >you've > >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, > >or you'd best not say anything. > > > >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have > >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any > >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that > >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* > > > >Joseph > > > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about >the > >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically > >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >but yet > >we also insist that the techniques we use be called >"alternative." I > >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >techniques" > >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >are on > >our termonology. > >> > >> > >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >wrote: > >> > >>From: Chris Westbrook > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM > >> > >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually > >impaired > >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with > >another > >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >hearing > >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness > >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >to > >speak, > >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >that I > >do > >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that > >certain > >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >crossings > >and > >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call > >myself > >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >to > >call > >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >you > >are > >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >find > >myself > >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > >> > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >> > >> > >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB > >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. > >>> > >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >take > >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >much > >but am > >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. > >>> > >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. > >>> > >>> Joseph > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >wrote: > >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >was a > >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. > >Just as > >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we > >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only > >reading the > >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >all > >of you > >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual > >vision. > >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >even > >know > >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're > >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >others > >out > >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, > >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on > >blindness. > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> Corbb O'Connor > >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >board > >and > >>as > >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >recently > >>noticed > >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >be a > >good > >>one. It > >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of > >people. > >>These > >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >not > >>want to > >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired > >person... > >>this > >>>> group is for you too! > >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then > >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the > >fact > >>that we > >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >believing > >that > >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you > >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >to > >be > >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? > >>>> > >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get > >blurred > >>and if > >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >get > >these > >>new > >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one > >specific > >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >to be > >the > >>most > >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- > >>"Attention > >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >makes > >>some sense > >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >identify > >as > >>visually > >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >the > >>terminology > >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation > >family? > >>>> > >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >refer > >to > >>other > >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >email > >>subject line > >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually > >announced > >>to the NABS > >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >Visually > >>Impaired > >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >"new > >>blindness > >>>> group of facebook! > >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific > >group or > >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >visually > >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >also. > >I > >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >relevant > >>example. > >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe > >that > >>perhaps > >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >lax > >and > >>blur > >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >all > >blind > >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >not > >as > >>solid > >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >Federation...?> > >>>> > >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >among > >us > >>debate > >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >our > >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >and > >>what it > >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >of > >>importance? > >>>> > >>>> Thoughtfully yours, > >>>> > >>>> Janice > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" > >> > >>>> To: "NABS list serve" > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Karen and all, > >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to > >>nonmembers. > >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the > >>philosophy of the > >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >word > >>"Blind" is sometimes a > >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >accept > >their > >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >one > >of > >>them. I > >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >as > >>blind. I felt > >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually > >>impaired". The acceptance > >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >person > >goes > >>through > >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >blind > >role > >>models, > >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >short. > >It is > >>simply > >>>>> a > >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >can > >>promote NFB > >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our > >>philosophy. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yours, > >>>>> Terri Rupp, President > >>>>> National Association of Blind Students > >>>>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >nabs-l: > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjo > seph%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue% > 40yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjos > eph%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: >11/16/2008 7:58 PM _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 04:46:48 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:46:48 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: References: <4922267e.e203be0a.7e66.ffffa76c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20081120044648.GD95793@yumi.bluecherry.net> David, not to mention the general contractor at the 2006 national convention. What was it he said? Something close to, "It takes a lot of confidence to stand there with a white cane in one hand and a saws-all in the other and say, 'We're gonna move that wall back about twelve inches, and we're going to tear that wall out...'" Can't remember his name now. Can some other NABSter recall more details? Joseph On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 07:00:54PM -0600, David Andrews wrote: > There was a blind guy who used to live in New Jersey, who I have it on > good authority built his own house. He also put himself through college > being an auto mechanic. > > Dave > > At 08:21 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >> Well, I really want to believe it too, but I honestly don't think a >> totally blind person can cut down a Christmas tree, or design and >> build an elaborate house, or any other task involving intense manual >> labor with no assistance >> whatsoever. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Harry Hogue >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even come >> up, and I wouldn't ever say i. >> >> You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am not >> sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the things that >> someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the crux of the >> matter. They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, but can they >> really? Cutting Christmas trees, for example. I don't know, but can a >> totally blind person really cut down a Christmas tree with no sighteed >> help? >> >> Harry >> >> P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. >> >> --- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> >> From: T. Joseph Carter >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM >> >> That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >> you're >> impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >> thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the right >> person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >> "But I >> am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >> minds >> were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then. >> >> All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. And >> shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education, >> not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think >> politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about >> why we call >> the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I agree >> with out >> of the two - blind and alternative. >> > >> >Harry >> > >> > >> >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >> wrote: >> > >> >From: T. Joseph Carter >> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM >> > >> >Harry, >> > >> >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It forces >> >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say. >> >Morally, that seems wrong to me. >> > >> >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. And you >> >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >> >you've >> >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then, >> >or you'd best not say anything. >> > >> >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >> >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any >> >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. Down that >> >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* >> > >> >Joseph >> > >> >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about >> the >> >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >> >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >> but yet >> >we also insist that the techniques we use be called >> "alternative." I >> >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >> techniques" >> >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >> are on >> >our termonology. >> >> >> >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >> wrote: >> >> >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >> >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> >impaired >> >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an example with >> >another >> >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >> hearing >> >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness >> >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability >> to >> >speak, >> >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no >> that I >> >do >> >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also accept that >> >certain >> >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >> crossings >> >and >> >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to call >> >myself >> >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual >> to >> >call >> >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally blind >> you >> >are >> >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >> find >> >myself >> >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >> >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >>> >> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >> take >> >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >> much >> >but am >> >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >>> >> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >>> >> >>> Joseph >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >> wrote: >> >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >> was a >> >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around. >> >Just as >> >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we >> >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >> >reading the >> >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >> all >> >of you >> >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual >> >vision. >> >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >> even >> >know >> >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >> >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >> others >> >out >> >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >> >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on >> >blindness. >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- >> >>>> Corbb O'Connor >> >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >>>> >> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >> board >> >and >> >>as >> >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >> recently >> >>noticed >> >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >> be a >> >good >> >>one. It >> >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >> as >> >>visually >> >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >> >people. >> >>These >> >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >> not >> >>want to >> >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >> >person... >> >>this >> >>>> group is for you too! >> >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >> >fact >> >>that we >> >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >> believing >> >that >> >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >> to >> >be >> >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >>>> >> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >> >blurred >> >>and if >> >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >> get >> >these >> >>new >> >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >> >specific >> >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >> to be >> >the >> >>most >> >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >> >>"Attention >> >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >> makes >> >>some sense >> >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >> identify >> >as >> >>visually >> >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >> the >> >>terminology >> >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >> >family? >> >>>> >> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >> refer >> >to >> >>other >> >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >> email >> >>subject line >> >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >> >announced >> >>to the NABS >> >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >> Visually >> >>Impaired >> >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >> "new >> >>blindness >> >>>> group of facebook! >> >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >> >group or >> >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >> visually >> >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently, >> also. >> >I >> >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >> relevant >> >>example. >> >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >> >that >> >>perhaps >> >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >> lax >> >and >> >>blur >> >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >> all >> >blind >> >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >> not >> >as >> >>solid >> >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >> Federation...?> >> >>>> >> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >> among >> >us >> >>debate >> >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >> our >> >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >> and >> >>what it >> >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >> of >> >>importance? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >> >>>> >> >>>> Janice >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >> >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Karen and all, >> >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >> >>nonmembers. >> >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >> >>philosophy of the >> >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >> word >> >>"Blind" is sometimes a >> >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >> accept >> >their >> >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >> one >> >of >> >>them. I >> >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >> as >> >>blind. I felt >> >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >> >>impaired". The acceptance >> >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >> person >> >goes >> >>through >> >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >> blind >> >role >> >>models, >> >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >> short. >> >It is >> >>simply >> >>>>> a >> >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >> can >> >>promote NFB >> >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >> >>philosophy. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Yours, >> >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >> >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >> >>>>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>nabs-l mailing list >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >nabs-l: >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjo >> seph%40gmail.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue% >> 40yahoo.com >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjos >> eph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: >> 11/16/2008 7:58 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 04:49:38 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:49:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Crossing light rail tracks In-Reply-To: <410010B336144DC7AD36AE0E561FC016@Bird> References: <20081119160236.VJZI3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <410010B336144DC7AD36AE0E561FC016@Bird> Message-ID: <20081120044938.GE95793@yumi.bluecherry.net> In Denver and Portland, lightrail trains do make noises (train-sounding bells, either real or artificial) when they approach places where pedestrians can cross the tracks and just before they start moving when stopped at a lighted intersection. Joseph On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 02:17:57PM -0700, Ben J. Bloomgren wrote: > Hello all, > > On December 27, the Phoenix area gets its first taste (hopefully) of > light rail transit. The ads are already warning about the quietness of > the trains and advising pedestrians to look both ways before crossing. My > question is this: How do blind people cross the street when there are > tracks? > > Ben From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 04:59:00 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:59:00 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081120045900.GF95793@yumi.bluecherry.net> Hey Fernando, the National Federation of the Blind works for me, and I'm blind. In fact, it works for more blind people than any other organization in the United States because it is comprised of more blind people than any other organization in the United States. Your movie failed in US markets because it stank more than the Asylum it was largely set in. There was just about as much excrement involved, so this should come as little surprise. Joseph On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:37:31AM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this > interview to you. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: LPovinelli at aol.com > Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT > Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Interview by Rob Carnevale > > > FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The > Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the > controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one of > the most expensive jokes he’s ever played. > > He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his > own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, and > why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. > > Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, > did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of > my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv > Fichman, the Canadian, he didn’t know I was going to direct. They first > developed the script and then they tried to think about the possible > director. They said they thought about me first, but I don’t believe it. > Saramago didn’t know I was going to do it. They just told him later. > > Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? > Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another book > that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City of God. > So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about City of > God. So, it wasn’t a big deal. At that point, I’d been doing commercials > for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my life was very > boring. So, I just bought City of God and started working on it. > > Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? > Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went to > Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner and I > thought he was going to answer them but he didn’t want to. He said: “It’s > my book and this is your film, so let’s not mix them up…” I really wanted > to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was right. If he’d told > me something about specific characters or events in the film I would try > to follow whatever he’d said and not what I was thinking. I would have > been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy that he didn’t want to talk > about his book. > > Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? > Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor’s > wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an > actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years > younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film should > be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he didn’t want > the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very generic; and > the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, we had a big dog > but he hated it [laughs]. > > Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? > Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to > Lisbon because he couldn’t come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad > cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn’t say > anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn’t talk! I was sure he > hated the film and didn’t know how to tell me. But then the lights came > on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as he was > when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated in front > of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little camera and then > at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. So, if you go to > YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my name, this is the > first thing that pops up. There’s like 200,000 hits already. My son’s > footage is more successful than mine! But it’s a very moving moment > because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. I was sure he hated > it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed him. I don’t kiss people > a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so moved. > > Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the > book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? > Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, > because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and > different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it was > that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I came > from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner > together and he presented the screening. I didn’t stay to see it but > before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. He > said: “Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it’s a great film.” He > talked about the violence in the film and he really loved the texture of > the tension… Again, he was very, very happy, so that was good news for > me. But, again, he didn’t like the dog. And that’s an important thing to > me because I had read this interview and among all his characters that > he’d written for this book, he was asked which was his favourite and he > said: “I could kill all my characters but the dog of tears.” So, for him > the dog was really important and that’s why it was the only character he > had something to ask for. And I missed it! > > Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? > Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were preparing > the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they [The National > Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they didn’t approve of the > project and they’d only approve if we sent them the script so they could > revise and correct it. They were very bossy. So, we politely answered > that they could have their own opinion, etc, etc, but it was our film. > So, as promised, before we released the film they told us they were going > to demonstrate and they carried out demonstrations in front of 75 > cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To be honest, they missed the point > completely. They thought the film tells the audience that blind people > can’t be adapted, that blind people can’t work because they’re stupid and > aggressive and it has nothing to do with blind people. It’s about human > nature. It’s about people just going blind and losing their humanity. > It’s a totally different story. > > Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of > his songs? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that happened > when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene where Gael > [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract everyone’s > attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in his hand and > so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called To Say I Love > You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot it. I wasn’t sure > I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so finally I decided to > use the joke and we bought the rights. That was the most expensive joke > in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we paid. > > Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. So > what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests against > something before it’s been released? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that > this organisation don’t really work for blind people. It’s more like a > PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an > organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for > blind people for adaptation or school. They don’t have that. It’s just a > news agency and it’s about promoting the idea that blind people can > adapt. That’s fair. But I think their decision to protest before seeing > or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago’s reply was quite > aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human blindness] > there’s some people who can see but are blind, and some blind people who > are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can be. > > Q. Is this the first film you’ve made that’s not been praised by the > international press? > Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We’ve had some > good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good review. > It was really divided. But it’s a difficult film. There’s people who love > the book and those who can’t read it to the end. The good news is that > the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an investment to do > 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. So, we did 95 prints > and we thought we were going to do 300,000 tickets. The Constant Gardener > did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a harder film so we thought that maybe > it would do less. But now the film is now going to go to 900,000 and we > might make a million. And that’s with no investment. It’s all word of > mouth. We released eight weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 > prints going on because the cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are > responding very well… in Mexico as well. > > But in the US the film didn’t work at all. I don’t know why. They > released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The > American audience wasn’t interested in seeing the story. They opened > very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn’t show up. They > saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn’t want to see a > depressing film. So, they didn’t go. If the film hadn’t been so > successful in Brazil or Mexico I’d say it was a problem with the film. > But I’d say it’s a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really creating > a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their jobs, losing > their houses and losing their investments. It’s not a good moment for > dark stories… because in the same week that we released Blindness, > Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and was a big hit! > > Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the process, > which you took part in as well. What did you discover about yourself > while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every person’s > worst nightmares? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded people > for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there was always > two or three people who, at some point after two or three hours, would > sit down and cry. They really, really couldn’t go on – but we wouldn’t > let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go there and say: “No, > let’s keep going.” But for me, it was the opposite. It was so comfortable > and so cosy. I remember I did it twice. The first time we did a lot of > things and we were taken to a restaurant, we were served and we had to > eat while blindfolded. After lunch, the guy said we could remove our > blindfolds but I didn’t want to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for > another eight minutes. It was so pleasant being with myself. It’s so good > because when you’re talking to people you don’t see their faces. When I’m > talking to you [now] I have expressions, I’m trying to engage you. But if > you can’t see, it’s much more free. It’s so liberating. > > Another thing I’ve found, which is so interesting, is that when you’re > blindfolded and you’re talking to somebody the conversation goes to > places that it would never go if you could see the other person’s > reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It’s such an > interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending > the day in a blindfold. It’s really, really interesting. > > Delicious > Digg > Reddit > Facebook > Stumbleupon > Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to his > movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows nothing about > the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We operate three > model training centers in the United States that offer the best available > rehabilitation training to help people adapt to blindness, and we are > very involved in mentoring blind youth and encouraging them to > participate in careers that are falsely thought to be closed to the > blind. And those things are just the tip of the iceberg. In our > sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good for blind people > than any single organization that claims to “work for the blind.” This is > because we are an organization of blind people, and blind people are in > the best position to know what blind people truly need. The biggest > problem that blind people face is the public misconceptions and > misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, so public education > is a critically important part of our mission, but it is not true to say > that we are simply a “PR organization.” > > > — Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # > > > > > > > One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the > things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 20 05:16:40 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:16:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: His derision of the protests and NFB's reaction really hurts. NFB saw the movie before protesting, didn't it? And the interviewer was biased a little too. That makes me more humiliated than the prospect of the film did. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Corbb O'Connor Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; vabs at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this interview to you. ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway Begin forwarded message: From: LPovinelli at aol.com Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview Interview by Rob Carnevale FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one of the most expensive jokes he's ever played. He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, and why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv Fichman, the Canadian, he didn't know I was going to direct. They first developed the script and then they tried to think about the possible director. They said they thought about me first, but I don't believe it. Saramago didn't know I was going to do it. They just told him later. Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another book that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City of God. So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about City of God. So, it wasn't a big deal. At that point, I'd been doing commercials for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my life was very boring. So, I just bought City of God and started working on it. Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went to Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner and I thought he was going to answer them but he didn't want to. He said: "It's my book and this is your film, so let's not mix them up." I really wanted to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was right. If he'd told me something about specific characters or events in the film I would try to follow whatever he'd said and not what I was thinking. I would have been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy that he didn't want to talk about his book. Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor's wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film should be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he didn't want the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very generic; and the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, we had a big dog but he hated it [laughs]. Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to Lisbon because he couldn't come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn't say anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn't talk! I was sure he hated the film and didn't know how to tell me. But then the lights came on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as he was when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated in front of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little camera and then at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. So, if you go to YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my name, this is the first thing that pops up. There's like 200,000 hits already. My son's footage is more successful than mine! But it's a very moving moment because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. I was sure he hated it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed him. I don't kiss people a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so moved. Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it was that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I came from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner together and he presented the screening. I didn't stay to see it but before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. He said: "Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it's a great film." He talked about the violence in the film and he really loved the texture of the tension. Again, he was very, very happy, so that was good news for me. But, again, he didn't like the dog. And that's an important thing to me because I had read this interview and among all his characters that he'd written for this book, he was asked which was his favourite and he said: "I could kill all my characters but the dog of tears." So, for him the dog was really important and that's why it was the only character he had something to ask for. And I missed it! Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were preparing the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they [The National Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they didn't approve of the project and they'd only approve if we sent them the script so they could revise and correct it. They were very bossy. So, we politely answered that they could have their own opinion, etc, etc, but it was our film. So, as promised, before we released the film they told us they were going to demonstrate and they carried out demonstrations in front of 75 cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To be honest, they missed the point completely. They thought the film tells the audience that blind people can't be adapted, that blind people can't work because they're stupid and aggressive and it has nothing to do with blind people. It's about human nature. It's about people just going blind and losing their humanity. It's a totally different story. Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of his songs? Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that happened when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene where Gael [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract everyone's attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in his hand and so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called To Say I Love You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot it. I wasn't sure I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so finally I decided to use the joke and we bought the rights. That was the most expensive joke in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we paid. Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. So what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests against something before it's been released? Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that this organisation don't really work for blind people. It's more like a PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for blind people for adaptation or school. They don't have that. It's just a news agency and it's about promoting the idea that blind people can adapt. That's fair. But I think their decision to protest before seeing or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago's reply was quite aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human blindness] there's some people who can see but are blind, and some blind people who are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can be. Q. Is this the first film you've made that's not been praised by the international press? Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We've had some good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good review. It was really divided. But it's a difficult film. There's people who love the book and those who can't read it to the end. The good news is that the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an investment to do 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. So, we did 95 prints and we thought we were going to do 300,000 tickets. The Constant Gardener did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a harder film so we thought that maybe it would do less. But now the film is now going to go to 900,000 and we might make a million. And that's with no investment. It's all word of mouth. We released eight weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 prints going on because the cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are responding very well. in Mexico as well. But in the US the film didn't work at all. I don't know why. They released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The American audience wasn't interested in seeing the story. They opened very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn't show up. They saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn't want to see a depressing film. So, they didn't go. If the film hadn't been so successful in Brazil or Mexico I'd say it was a problem with the film. But I'd say it's a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really creating a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their jobs, losing their houses and losing their investments. It's not a good moment for dark stories. because in the same week that we released Blindness, Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and was a big hit! Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the process, which you took part in as well. What did you discover about yourself while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every person's worst nightmares? Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded people for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there was always two or three people who, at some point after two or three hours, would sit down and cry. They really, really couldn't go on - but we wouldn't let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go there and say: "No, let's keep going." But for me, it was the opposite. It was so comfortable and so cosy. I remember I did it twice. The first time we did a lot of things and we were taken to a restaurant, we were served and we had to eat while blindfolded. After lunch, the guy said we could remove our blindfolds but I didn't want to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for another eight minutes. It was so pleasant being with myself. It's so good because when you're talking to people you don't see their faces. When I'm talking to you [now] I have expressions, I'm trying to engage you. But if you can't see, it's much more free. It's so liberating. Another thing I've found, which is so interesting, is that when you're blindfolded and you're talking to somebody the conversation goes to places that it would never go if you could see the other person's reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It's such an interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending the day in a blindfold. It's really, really interesting. Delicious Digg Reddit Facebook Stumbleupon Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to his movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows nothing about the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We operate three model training centers in the United States that offer the best available rehabilitation training to help people adapt to blindness, and we are very involved in mentoring blind youth and encouraging them to participate in careers that are falsely thought to be closed to the blind. And those things are just the tip of the iceberg. In our sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good for blind people than any single organization that claims to "work for the blind." This is because we are an organization of blind people, and blind people are in the best position to know what blind people truly need. The biggest problem that blind people face is the public misconceptions and misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, so public education is a critically important part of our mission, but it is not true to say that we are simply a "PR organization." - Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 14:13:03 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:13:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha, he has the male version of my name. lol Anyways...I had a friend who read the book who is blind and he really didn't mind the book at all. I don't know if he saw the film though. I think that Fernando's perception of vision loss is clouded and confused. I mean, when people loose vision, they don't loose their minds and all of a sudden become completely helpless...I had a friend who I watch loose his sight, and he is fine. He struggled and it was hard on the family, but he lived with it and moved on. I think that he is just ignorant of blind people and should maybe talk to some before jumping to conclusions. I mean, I've seen children's shows that preserve blind people better than this. They need to sit down and maybe study the behaviours of blind people. Go to a school or camp for the blind and live in their shoes. Then, after you gathered your information, make a film that makes sense. On 11/20/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > His derision of the protests and NFB's reaction really hurts. NFB saw the > movie before protesting, didn't it? And the interviewer was biased a little > too. That makes me more humiliated than the prospect of the film did. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Corbb O'Connor > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; vabs at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles > interview > > In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this > interview to you. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: LPovinelli at aol.com > Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT > Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview > > > Interview by Rob Carnevale > > > FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The > Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the > controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one > of the most expensive jokes he's ever played. > > He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his > own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, > and why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. > > Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, > did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of > my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv > Fichman, the Canadian, he didn't know I was going to direct. They > first developed the script and then they tried to think about the > possible director. They said they thought about me first, but I don't > believe it. Saramago didn't know I was going to do it. They just told > him later. > > Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? > Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another > book that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City > of God. So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about > City of God. So, it wasn't a big deal. At that point, I'd been doing > commercials for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my > life was very boring. So, I just bought City of God and started > working on it. > > Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? > Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went > to Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner > and I thought he was going to answer them but he didn't want to. He > said: "It's my book and this is your film, so let's not mix them up." > I really wanted to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was > right. If he'd told me something about specific characters or events > in the film I would try to follow whatever he'd said and not what I > was thinking. I would have been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy > that he didn't want to talk about his book. > > Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? > Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor's > wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an > actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years > younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film > should be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he > didn't want the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very > generic; and the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, > we had a big dog but he hated it [laughs]. > > Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? > Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to > Lisbon because he couldn't come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad > cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn't say > anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn't talk! I was sure > he hated the film and didn't know how to tell me. But then the lights > came on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as > he was when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated > in front of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little > camera and then at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. > So, if you go to YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my > name, this is the first thing that pops up. There's like 200,000 hits > already. My son's footage is more successful than mine! But it's a > very moving moment because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. > I was sure he hated it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed > him. I don't kiss people a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so > moved. > > Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the > book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? > Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, > because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and > different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it > was that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I > came from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner > together and he presented the screening. I didn't stay to see it but > before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. > He said: "Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it's a great > film." He talked about the violence in the film and he really loved > the texture of the tension. Again, he was very, very happy, so that > was good news for me. But, again, he didn't like the dog. And that's > an important thing to me because I had read this interview and among > all his characters that he'd written for this book, he was asked which > was his favourite and he said: "I could kill all my characters but the > dog of tears." So, for him the dog was really important and that's why > it was the only character he had something to ask for. And I missed it! > > Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? > Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were > preparing the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they > [The National Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they > didn't approve of the project and they'd only approve if we sent them > the script so they could revise and correct it. They were very bossy. > So, we politely answered that they could have their own opinion, etc, > etc, but it was our film. So, as promised, before we released the film > they told us they were going to demonstrate and they carried out > demonstrations in front of 75 cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To > be honest, they missed the point completely. They thought the film > tells the audience that blind people can't be adapted, that blind > people can't work because they're stupid and aggressive and it has > nothing to do with blind people. It's about human nature. It's about > people just going blind and losing their humanity. It's a totally > different story. > > Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of > his songs? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that > happened when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene > where Gael [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract > everyone's attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in > his hand and so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called > To Say I Love You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot > it. I wasn't sure I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so > finally I decided to use the joke and we bought the rights. That was > the most expensive joke in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we > paid. > > Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. > So what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests > against something before it's been released? > Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that > this organisation don't really work for blind people. It's more like a > PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an > organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for > blind people for adaptation or school. They don't have that. It's just > a news agency and it's about promoting the idea that blind people can > adapt. That's fair. But I think their decision to protest before > seeing or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago's reply was > quite aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human > blindness] there's some people who can see but are blind, and some > blind people who are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can > be. > > Q. Is this the first film you've made that's not been praised by the > international press? > Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We've had some > good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good > review. It was really divided. But it's a difficult film. There's > people who love the book and those who can't read it to the end. The > good news is that the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an > investment to do 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. > So, we did 95 prints and we thought we were going to do 300,000 > tickets. The Constant Gardener did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a > harder film so we thought that maybe it would do less. But now the > film is now going to go to 900,000 and we might make a million. And > that's with no investment. It's all word of mouth. We released eight > weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 prints going on because the > cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are responding very well. in > Mexico as well. > > But in the US the film didn't work at all. I don't know why. They > released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The > American audience wasn't interested in seeing the story. They opened > very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn't show up. They > saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn't want to see a > depressing film. So, they didn't go. If the film hadn't been so > successful in Brazil or Mexico I'd say it was a problem with the film. > But I'd say it's a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really > creating a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their > jobs, losing their houses and losing their investments. It's not a > good moment for dark stories. because in the same week that we > released Blindness, Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and > was a big hit! > > Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the > process, which you took part in as well. What did you discover about > yourself while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every > person's worst nightmares? > Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded > people for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there > was always two or three people who, at some point after two or three > hours, would sit down and cry. They really, really couldn't go on - > but we wouldn't let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go > there and say: "No, let's keep going." But for me, it was the > opposite. It was so comfortable and so cosy. I remember I did it > twice. The first time we did a lot of things and we were taken to a > restaurant, we were served and we had to eat while blindfolded. After > lunch, the guy said we could remove our blindfolds but I didn't want > to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for another eight minutes. It > was so pleasant being with myself. It's so good because when you're > talking to people you don't see their faces. When I'm talking to you > [now] I have expressions, I'm trying to engage you. But if you can't > see, it's much more free. It's so liberating. > > Another thing I've found, which is so interesting, is that when you're > blindfolded and you're talking to somebody the conversation goes to > places that it would never go if you could see the other person's > reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It's such an > interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending > the day in a blindfold. It's really, really interesting. > > Delicious > Digg > Reddit > Facebook > Stumbleupon > Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to > his movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows > nothing about the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We > operate three model training centers in the United States that offer > the best available rehabilitation training to help people adapt to > blindness, and we are very involved in mentoring blind youth and > encouraging them to participate in careers that are falsely thought to > be closed to the blind. And those things are just the tip of the > iceberg. In our sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good > for blind people than any single organization that claims to "work for > the blind." This is because we are an organization of blind people, > and blind people are in the best position to know what blind people > truly need. The biggest problem that blind people face is the public > misconceptions and misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, > so public education is a critically important part of our mission, but > it is not true to say that we are simply a "PR organization." > > > - Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # > > > > > > > One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and > the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From SWhite at nfb.org Thu Nov 20 16:04:15 2008 From: SWhite at nfb.org (White, Scott) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:04:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-NEWSLINE Subscriber Newsletter Message-ID: NFB-Newsliner The Newsletter for Subscribers All aboard the Newsliner! Welcome to the maiden voyage of NFB-Newsliner, the newsletter for NFB-NEWSLINE® subscribers. The intent of this newsletter is to inform you of important news and updates regarding this unique and empowering service, and to help maximize your enjoyment as a user. You are receiving this newsletter because you are one of the individuals for whom we have an e-mail address (perhaps you are one of the ever-growing number who receives their news via e-mail?) and because we feel the time has come to open up a line of communication with you. We understand that you don't want your email inbox overwhelmed, so we plan to only send you information we think you can really use; you can expect an email from us two to three times per month. In addition to our desire to ensure that this service is everything that it can be for you, and to alert you to improvements and expansions, we also want to hear from you! Please write to Scott White at swhite at nfb.org with your suggestions and as always, you can call our helpline at (866) 504-7300 with any questions you may have. If you have forgotten your login codes, or if you wish to receive a tutorial tape or print User’s Guide, please contact Carylin Walton at cwalton at nfb.org. For a wealth of information on NFB-NEWSLINE®, please visit our website at www.nfbnewsline.org. Portholes Do you have a certain columnist who you never miss? Is there a certain section of your local paper that you look forward to each week? If so, please pass along your preference so that it can be included in this subscriber’s newsletter. Whether it is sports commentator’s enthusiastic review of baseball statistics or a food writer’s unique take on tofu, your favorite part of the paper could also be somebody else’s must-read article too! Contact Renée West, Marketing and Outreach Manager, at rwest at nfb.org or (410) 659-9314, extension 2411, so that she can feature your favorite(s) in the next issue of NFB-Newsliner! What’s Current? Since July of 1995, blind people have been using their telephone to sail into the sea of information. With the advent of the NFB-NEWSLINE® service, members of the print-disabled community could be as thoroughly informed of election results, edamame recipes, and economic reports as the next (sighted) guy. While phone calls and e-mails function as the anchor of our service, we continue to build on our (and your) prior efforts­and now we’re exploring new and exciting ways blind folks can get the news they need, when they need it. Two initiatives are making headway: News via the Victor Reader Stream A companion software program for the PC will be crafted in conjunction with a Web site where subscribers can select daily newspapers to be directly delivered to their computer each morning. The software will then automatically transfer the selected daily newspapers to the Humanware Victor Reader Stream. The user can then take this portable, pocket-sized device and read the selected material at their convenience. Currently, some subscribers who lack technical experience may find tackling the process of transferring content from their email to their Victor Reader Stream a bit inconvenient. However, when the automated process is rolled out, getting your daily news will be as simple as plugging your VR Stream into your computer. News on the Net A secure Web site will be developed where subscribers can login to view their daily newspaper or magazine of choice. This Web site is to be optimized for ease of use by persons using adaptive technology such as screen readers and enlargement software programs. Additionally, this Web site will be designed to be efficiently used by persons of all levels of technical expertise. One really excellent feature of the newspapers-by-website experience is that, in addition to featuring full content, subscribers can do an allover search for a key term. This means that one can find every instance of the term “pirate” within all sections of a newspaper, whether it is within the technology or entertainment pages. This amazing functionality puts on board a new ability for members of the print-disabled community to do research for homework or career, and makes getting informed a ballast, er, blast! (Broad)casting Off Do you love having free access day or night to over 260 newspapers and magazines on the NFB-NEWSLINE® service? Do you enjoy the unprecedented ability to become informed through the availability of seven excellent magazines, local and national Associated Press releases, and six Spanish-language offerings? Can you not fathom how you ever got along without this service? Do you know another print-disabled individual who would benefit from using NFB-NEWSLINE®? We want to help you in telling others about this special service. If you have a blind friend or are a member of a support group for blind people, or if you live near a retirement community, or know someone who is incapable of reading the newspaper for any reason, you can serve as an integral element in our efforts to promote NFB-NEWSLINE®. We can provide you with help in targeting and talking to a group of one or a hundred about the service, and can help you receive marketing materials to aid in your presentation. Please call Renée West to discuss how you can reel in new subscribers! Scott A. White Director of Sponsored Technology Programs NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2231 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: swhite at nfb.org From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 16:48:59 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:48:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirellesinterview References: Message-ID: <000d01c94b2f$e50388d0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Yes I agree with you. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirellesinterview > Ha, he has the male version of my name. lol Anyways...I had a friend > who read the book who is blind and he really didn't mind the book at > all. I don't know if he saw the film though. I think that Fernando's > perception of vision loss is clouded and confused. I mean, when people > loose vision, they don't loose their minds and all of a sudden become > completely helpless...I had a friend who I watch loose his sight, and > he is fine. He struggled and it was hard on the family, but he lived > with it and moved on. I think that he is just ignorant of blind people > and should maybe talk to some before jumping to conclusions. I mean, > I've seen children's shows that preserve blind people better than > this. They need to sit down and maybe study the behaviours of blind > people. Go to a school or camp for the blind and live in their shoes. > Then, after you gathered your information, make a film that makes > sense. > > On 11/20/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> His derision of the protests and NFB's reaction really hurts. NFB saw the >> movie before protesting, didn't it? And the interviewer was biased a >> little >> too. That makes me more humiliated than the prospect of the film did. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Corbb O'Connor >> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; vabs at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles >> interview >> >> In the interest of equal opportunity of opinion, I forward this >> interview to you. >> >> ----- >> Corbb O'Connor >> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: LPovinelli at aol.com >> Date: November 19, 2008 10:06:23 PM GMT >> Subject: Blindness - Movie Director Fernando Meirelles interview >> >> >> Blindness - Fernando Meirelles interview >> >> >> Interview by Rob Carnevale >> >> >> FERNANDO Meirelles, the Brazilian director of City of God and The >> Constant Gardener, talks about his latest project Blindness, the >> controversy surrounding it and why Stevie Wonder was involved in one >> of the most expensive jokes he's ever played. >> >> He also relates how the film has become an overwhelming success in his >> own country even though American audiences turned their backs on it, >> and why author Jose Saramago was reduced to tears after seeing the film. >> >> Q. When this came back to you after the success of your other movies, >> did it feel like kind of a reward for those successes? >> Fernando Meirelles: You know, it had nothing to do with the success of >> my other movies because when [Jose] Saramago sold the rights to Niv >> Fichman, the Canadian, he didn't know I was going to direct. They >> first developed the script and then they tried to think about the >> possible director. They said they thought about me first, but I don't >> believe it. Saramago didn't know I was going to do it. They just told >> him later. >> >> Q. How disappointed were you not to get the rights initially? >> Fernando Meirelles: I just moved on very quickly. There was another >> book that I was interested in, from the same publisher, which was City >> of God. So we talked about the other one and started negotiating about >> City of God. So, it wasn't a big deal. At that point, I'd been doing >> commercials for nine years and I really wanted to move on because my >> life was very boring. So, I just bought City of God and started >> working on it. >> >> Q. Did you talk to Saramago about the book? >> Fernando Meirelles: Actually, after I signed on to the project I went >> to Lisbon to meet him and I had a lot of questions. We met for dinner >> and I thought he was going to answer them but he didn't want to. He >> said: "It's my book and this is your film, so let's not mix them up." >> I really wanted to know a lot of things but in the end I think he was >> right. If he'd told me something about specific characters or events >> in the film I would try to follow whatever he'd said and not what I >> was thinking. I would have been a bit divided. In the end, I was happy >> that he didn't want to talk about his book. >> >> Q. Did you mention any of your casting ideas, such as Julianne Moore? >> Fernando Meirelles: No, not at that point. His idea for the doctor's >> wife was Susan Sarandon, who was also on my list. But we wanted an >> actress who was a bit younger. We needed her to be 10 or 12 years >> younger. There were three things he asked us: one, that the film >> should be spoken in English, so it could be very international; he >> didn't want the story to be set in a specific place, it should be very >> generic; and the dog with the tears, he said he wanted a big dog. So, >> we had a big dog but he hated it [laughs]. >> >> Q. Has he seen the film and does he like it? >> Fernando Meirelles: He saw it right after Cannes. I took the film to >> Lisbon because he couldn't come to Cannes. I showed him in a very bad >> cinema screen in Lisbon and when the film finished he wouldn't say >> anything. He was sitting next to me and he wouldn't talk! I was sure >> he hated the film and didn't know how to tell me. But then the lights >> came on and he was crying. He said he was as happy to see the film as >> he was when he finished writing the book. Actually, my son was seated >> in front of us, so when the lights turned on he turned his little >> camera and then at night at the hotel he put this video on YouTube. >> So, if you go to YouTube and put in Saramago, Blindness and maybe my >> name, this is the first thing that pops up. There's like 200,000 hits >> already. My son's footage is more successful than mine! But it's a >> very moving moment because I was so pathetically nervous next to him. >> I was sure he hated it. But then when he said he loved it, I kissed >> him. I don't kiss people a lot. But I kissed his head because I was so >> moved. >> >> Q. How did he feel the film worked compared to the book, because the >> book is more of an allegory and the film is more naturalistic? >> Fernando Meirelles: He said he liked it. He said they were different, >> because they had to be as there were different sensibilities and >> different people telling the same story. But what he liked about it >> was that the spirit of the book was totally respected by the film. I >> came from Lisbon yesterday and the day before yesterday, we had dinner >> together and he presented the screening. I didn't stay to see it but >> before I left I went by his house to say goodbye and he was so moved. >> He said: "Fernando, yesterday I watched it again and it's a great >> film." He talked about the violence in the film and he really loved >> the texture of the tension. Again, he was very, very happy, so that >> was good news for me. But, again, he didn't like the dog. And that's >> an important thing to me because I had read this interview and among >> all his characters that he'd written for this book, he was asked which >> was his favourite and he said: "I could kill all my characters but the >> dog of tears." So, for him the dog was really important and that's why >> it was the only character he had something to ask for. And I missed it! >> >> Q. Did the criticism from blind groups in America take you by surprise? >> Fernando Meirelles: It was not a surprise because when we were >> preparing the film and they read the story was going to be shot, they >> [The National Federation of the Blind] wrote to us and said they >> didn't approve of the project and they'd only approve if we sent them >> the script so they could revise and correct it. They were very bossy. >> So, we politely answered that they could have their own opinion, etc, >> etc, but it was our film. So, as promised, before we released the film >> they told us they were going to demonstrate and they carried out >> demonstrations in front of 75 cinemas, which is quite a big thing. To >> be honest, they missed the point completely. They thought the film >> tells the audience that blind people can't be adapted, that blind >> people can't work because they're stupid and aggressive and it has >> nothing to do with blind people. It's about human nature. It's about >> people just going blind and losing their humanity. It's a totally >> different story. >> >> Q. Did Stevie Wonder give you any feedback about it as you use one of >> his songs? >> Fernando Meirelles: Well, that was actually a little joke that >> happened when we were shooting. We were waiting to shoot the scene >> where Gael [Garcia Bernal] was talking on the microphone to attract >> everyone's attention. But before doing that, he had the microphone in >> his hand and so, for fun, started singing Stevie Wonder [I Just Called >> To Say I Love You]. I thought that was funny and maybe we could shoot >> it. I wasn't sure I was going to use it but we were laughing a lot, so >> finally I decided to use the joke and we bought the rights. That was >> the most expensive joke in my life. They charged us $50,000! But we >> paid. >> >> Q. You say the story in the book and the film is about human nature. >> So what does it say about the human nature of a group that protests >> against something before it's been released? >> Fernando Meirelles: Well, what we found out about this group is that >> this organisation don't really work for blind people. It's more like a >> PR organisation. They want to promote the idea that there is an >> organisation for blind people. Other organisations have training for >> blind people for adaptation or school. They don't have that. It's just >> a news agency and it's about promoting the idea that blind people can >> adapt. That's fair. But I think their decision to protest before >> seeing or hearing the film was really a mistake. Saramago's reply was >> quite aggressive. He said something like, [with regards to human >> blindness] there's some people who can see but are blind, and some >> blind people who are really blind but can see how stupid somebody can >> be. >> >> Q. Is this the first film you've made that's not been praised by the >> international press? >> Fernando Meirelles: Everybody can have their opinion. We've had some >> good reviews. The Guardian here, and the LA Times gave us a good >> review. It was really divided. But it's a difficult film. There's >> people who love the book and those who can't read it to the end. The >> good news is that the film in Brazil is doing really well. We did an >> investment to do 300,000 tickets because it is a hard film to sell. >> So, we did 95 prints and we thought we were going to do 300,000 >> tickets. The Constant Gardener did 500,000 in Brazil, but this is a >> harder film so we thought that maybe it would do less. But now the >> film is now going to go to 900,000 and we might make a million. And >> that's with no investment. It's all word of mouth. We released eight >> weeks ago with 95 prints and still have 95 prints going on because the >> cinemas are still packed. So, audiences are responding very well. in >> Mexico as well. >> >> But in the US the film didn't work at all. I don't know why. They >> released it four weeks ago and now we have only 80 prints left. The >> American audience wasn't interested in seeing the story. They opened >> very wide and on the first weekend, the audience didn't show up. They >> saw the trailer, saw the posters and decided they didn't want to see a >> depressing film. So, they didn't go. If the film hadn't been so >> successful in Brazil or Mexico I'd say it was a problem with the film. >> But I'd say it's a cultural thing. Maybe the election is really >> creating a tension. In this financial crisis, people are losing their >> jobs, losing their houses and losing their investments. It's not a >> good moment for dark stories. because in the same week that we >> released Blindness, Beverly Hills Chihuahua opened on the same day and >> was a big hit! >> >> Q. The blindness camps sounded like an interesting part of the >> process, which you took part in as well. What did you discover about >> yourself while doing that, because it makes you confront one of every >> person's worst nightmares? >> Fernando Meirelles: You know, we had groups where we blindfolded >> people for hours and did different exercises. In every group, there >> was always two or three people who, at some point after two or three >> hours, would sit down and cry. They really, really couldn't go on - >> but we wouldn't let them take off the blindfold. Somebody would go >> there and say: "No, let's keep going." But for me, it was the >> opposite. It was so comfortable and so cosy. I remember I did it >> twice. The first time we did a lot of things and we were taken to a >> restaurant, we were served and we had to eat while blindfolded. After >> lunch, the guy said we could remove our blindfolds but I didn't want >> to. I think I stayed with the blindfold for another eight minutes. It >> was so pleasant being with myself. It's so good because when you're >> talking to people you don't see their faces. When I'm talking to you >> [now] I have expressions, I'm trying to engage you. But if you can't >> see, it's much more free. It's so liberating. >> >> Another thing I've found, which is so interesting, is that when you're >> blindfolded and you're talking to somebody the conversation goes to >> places that it would never go if you could see the other person's >> reaction. You start talking about very intimate things. It's such an >> interesting experience. I recommend maybe Sunday morning and spending >> the day in a blindfold. It's really, really interesting. >> >> Delicious >> Digg >> Reddit >> Facebook >> Stumbleupon >> Quite apart from his incorrect characterization of our objections to >> his movie, Mr. Meirelles proves in this interview that he knows >> nothing about the National Federation of the Blind and what we do. We >> operate three model training centers in the United States that offer >> the best available rehabilitation training to help people adapt to >> blindness, and we are very involved in mentoring blind youth and >> encouraging them to participate in careers that are falsely thought to >> be closed to the blind. And those things are just the tip of the >> iceberg. In our sixty-eight years of existence, we have done more good >> for blind people than any single organization that claims to "work for >> the blind." This is because we are an organization of blind people, >> and blind people are in the best position to know what blind people >> truly need. The biggest problem that blind people face is the public >> misconceptions and misunderstandings about blindness and blind people, >> so public education is a critically important part of our mission, but >> it is not true to say that we are simply a "PR organization." >> >> >> - Chris Danielsen Nov 19 # >> >> >> >> >> >> >> One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and >> the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 22:33:42 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:33:42 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology In-Reply-To: <20081120044648.GD95793@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4922267e.e203be0a.7e66.ffffa76c@mx.google.com> <20081120044648.GD95793@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <44BDD1BF-6D6E-40B0-B5E3-B24BE7F98D3F@gmail.com> Joseph, The blind contractor is, I believe, Mr. George Wurtzel in Michigan (not to be confused with Fred Wurtzel, the Michigan affiliate President). I do remember that quote from his general session address, though! What a character George is! ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 20, 2008, at 4:46 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: David, not to mention the general contractor at the 2006 national convention. What was it he said? Something close to, "It takes a lot of confidence to stand there with a white cane in one hand and a saws-all in the other and say, 'We're gonna move that wall back about twelve inches, and we're going to tear that wall out...'" Can't remember his name now. Can some other NABSter recall more details? Joseph On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 07:00:54PM -0600, David Andrews wrote: > There was a blind guy who used to live in New Jersey, who I have it > on good authority built his own house. He also put himself through > college being an auto mechanic. > > Dave > > At 08:21 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote: >> Well, I really want to believe it too, but I honestly don't think >> a totally blind person can cut down a Christmas tree, or design >> and build an elaborate house, or any other task involving intense >> manual labor with no assistance >> whatsoever. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Harry Hogue >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even >> come up, and I wouldn't ever say i. >> >> You make a lot of sense. What really gets me is that I really am >> not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the >> things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is >> the crux of the matter. They say, yes, but then I always am >> wodnering, but can they really? Cutting Christmas trees, for >> example. I don't know, but can a totally blind person really cut >> down a Christmas tree with no sighteed help? >> >> Harry >> >> P.S. I really want to believe, I really, really do. >> >> --- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter >> wrote: >> >> From: T. Joseph Carter >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM >> >> That's your right, of course. You're free to go on telling people >> you're >> impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of >> thinking while simultaneously trying to change it. If you ask the >> right >> person, I'm too blind to be a teacher. How exactly does me saying, >> "But I >> am only visually impaired" change their minds? It doesn't--their >> minds >> were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even >> then. >> >> All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down. >> And >> shoot they will, because blind people should receive special >> education, >> not provide it. I'm not going to contribute to that. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear. I think >> politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand >> about why we call >> the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I >> agree with out >> of the two - blind and alternative. >> > >> >Harry >> > >> > >> >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter >> wrote: >> > >> >From: T. Joseph Carter >> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM >> > >> >Harry, >> > >> >I object to the concept of political correctness outright. It >> forces >> >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not >> say. >> >Morally, that seems wrong to me. >> > >> >I endeavor to say exactly what I think. Not everyone likes that. >> And you >> >know what? That's fine. In fact, sometimes I'm wrong. Thing is, >> >you've >> >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and >> then, >> >or you'd best not say anything. >> > >> >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have >> >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted >> any >> >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for. >> Down that >> >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson. *grin* >> > >> >Joseph >> > >> >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >>Here's an interesting thought. We get all bent out of shape about >> the >> >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically >> >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are, >> but yet >> >we also insist that the techniques we use be called >> "alternative." I >> >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute >> techniques" >> >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we >> are on >> >our termonology. >> >> >> >> >> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook >> wrote: >> >> >> >>From: Chris Westbrook >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM >> >> >> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually >> >impaired >> >>you are necessarily denying your blindness. I will use an >> example with >> >another >> >>disability from my own life. I am hearing impaired. Notice I said >> hearing >> >>impaired, not deaf. I choose not to call myself deaf, because >> deafness >> >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the >> inability >> to >> >speak, >> >>etc. If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you >> no >> that I >> >do >> >>not deny my hearing loss. I wear two hearing aids. I also >> accept that >> >certain >> >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street >> crossings >> >and >> >>socializing in crowded situations. Why is it deemed OK for me to >> call >> >myself >> >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired >> individual >> to >> >call >> >>themselves visually impaired? after all, even if you are totally >> blind >> you >> >are >> >>visually impaired. The more I think about these things, the more I >> find >> >myself >> >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy. >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >> >> >> >> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words. The NFB >> >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes. >> >>> >> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will >> take >> >>offense. If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see >> much >> >but am >> >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful. >> >>> >> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too. >> >>> >> >>> Joseph >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor >> wrote: >> >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that >> was a >> >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded >> around. >> >Just as >> >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and >> others), we >> >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only >> >reading the >> >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with >> all >> >of you >> >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some >> residual >> >vision. >> >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they >> even >> >know >> >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're >> >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find >> others >> >out >> >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students, >> >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy >> on >> >blindness. >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- >> >>>> Corbb O'Connor >> >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers, >> >>>> >> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs >> board >> >and >> >>as >> >>>> nabs members, out on this very interesting point. I have >> recently >> >>noticed >> >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can >> be a >> >good >> >>one. It >> >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such >> as >> >>visually >> >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of >> >people. >> >>These >> >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might >> not >> >>want to >> >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired >> >person... >> >>this >> >>>> group is for you too! >> >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then >> >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the >> >fact >> >>that we >> >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into >> believing >> >that >> >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you >> >>>> are legally blind, the key word is blind. One is not going >> to >> >be >> >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they? >> >>>> >> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get >> >blurred >> >>and if >> >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to >> get >> >these >> >>new >> >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not to pick on one >> >specific >> >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems >> to be >> >the >> >>most >> >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line- >> >>"Attention >> >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This >> makes >> >>some sense >> >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self >> identify >> >as >> >>visually >> >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use >> the >> >>terminology >> >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation >> >family? >> >>>> >> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to >> refer >> >to >> >>other >> >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the >> email >> >>subject line >> >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually >> >announced >> >>to the NABS >> >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and >> Visually >> >>Impaired >> >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like, >> "new >> >>blindness >> >>>> group of facebook! >> >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific >> >group or >> >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as >> visually >> >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature >> recently, >> also. >> >I >> >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and >> relevant >> >>example. >> >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe >> >that >> >>perhaps >> >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little >> lax >> >and >> >>blur >> >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of >> all >> >blind >> >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall, >> not >> >as >> >>solid >> >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the >> Federation...?> >> >>>> >> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers >> among >> >us >> >>debate >> >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to >> our >> >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness >> and >> >>what it >> >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter >> of >> >>importance? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thoughtfully yours, >> >>>> >> >>>> Janice >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp" >> >> >> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Karen and all, >> >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to >> >>nonmembers. >> >>>>> Facebook is just one of them. Although as you said, the >> >>philosophy of the >> >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that >> word >> >>"Blind" is sometimes a >> >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or >> accept >> >their >> >>>>> blindness. It was only until a few years ago that I was >> one >> >of >> >>them. I >> >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me >> as >> >>blind. I felt >> >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually >> >>impaired". The acceptance >> >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each >> person >> >goes >> >>through >> >>>>> differently. What we have to do is serve as positive >> blind >> >role >> >>models, >> >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being >> short. >> >It is >> >>simply >> >>>>> a >> >>>>> characteristic. Once we attract them to these groups, we >> can >> >>promote NFB >> >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our >> >>philosophy. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Yours, >> >>>>> Terri Rupp, President >> >>>>> National Association of Blind Students >> >>>>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>nabs-l mailing list >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> >nabs-l: >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ >> carter.tjo seph%40gmail.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue >> % 40yahoo.com >> >_______________________________________________ >> >nabs-l mailing list >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ >> carter.tjos eph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1793 - Release Date: >> 11/16/2008 7:58 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 21 04:09:57 2008 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:09:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights Message-ID: hey all listers, How are you all doing. I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this interesting article on making accessible currency. It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found to have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic gadgets. I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm and everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I go to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am getting is a 20 and fold it along ways. I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always reliable and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell you what it is if you forget the denomination. I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because when it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a whole lot in food places. beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel from you especially change. this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. anyhow, the following link is : http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm thank you very much. Priscilla Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. . From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 04:28:57 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:28:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. Beth On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: > hey all listers, > How are you all doing. > I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this > interesting article on making accessible currency. > It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found to > have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the > argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have > accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic gadgets. > I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can > afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. > Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm and > everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I go > to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am getting > is a 20 and fold it along ways. > I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always reliable > and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell you > what it is if you forget the denomination. > > I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be > able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because when > it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. > We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a whole > lot in food places. > beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel > from you especially change. > > this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. > anyhow, the following link is : http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm > > thank you very much. > > Priscilla > > Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president > bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. > Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. > . > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From briannasnyder90 at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 05:54:28 2008 From: briannasnyder90 at gmail.com (brianna snyder) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:54:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on others about things having to do with money. Brianna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. > Beth > > On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >> hey all listers, >> How are you all doing. >> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >> interesting article on making accessible currency. >> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >> to >> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >> gadgets. >> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >> and >> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >> go >> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >> getting >> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >> reliable >> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >> you >> what it is if you forget the denomination. >> >> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >> when >> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >> whole >> lot in food places. >> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >> from you especially change. >> >> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >> anyhow, the following link is : >> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >> >> thank you very much. >> >> Priscilla >> >> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >> . >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Nov 21 06:22:04 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:22:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with you completely, Priscilla. This is an interesting topic. In Canada we do have some symbols to identify money, which certainly helps, but it needs some work. First, the numbers aren't actually on the bill - a certain number of Braille cells indicates the denomination. These can be worn down when the bill is old too. I can imagine the dollar bill makes things a bit more complicated - that always confused me when I was in the States because I always thought I had more money than I did because I had lots of bills - all singles. LOL But I guess you guys don't have to worry about heavy change as much, without the 1- and 2-dollar coins like we have. smile I don't see why something isn't done about your bills at all, though. Technology is infallible as we all know, so I don't see why gadgets will solve all the issues. I also understand American money is all one colour, which makes it confusing for everyone, but especially those with low vision. Each denomination of Canadian money is a different colour, and the numbers are dark on a light background on one side, and light on a dark background on the other side of the bill. I don't want to sound snobby or anything but I think these adaptations are worth considering for all currency. I hope that Obama does something about this though - it's important. Thanks for reading this near-novel, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of priscilla Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:10 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] money rights hey all listers, How are you all doing. I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this interesting article on making accessible currency. It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found to have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic gadgets. I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm and everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I go to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am getting is a 20 and fold it along ways. I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always reliable and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell you what it is if you forget the denomination. I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because when it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a whole lot in food places. beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel from you especially change. this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. anyhow, the following link is : http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm thank you very much. Priscilla Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. . _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 13:22:38 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:22:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> Message-ID: <003301c94bdc$3a84a670$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I also agree with you. While I am getting around ok with keeping my bills in different spots it would be helpful if there was some way we could tell our bills apart with out having to ask someone to tell us what bills they are handing us. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "brianna snyder" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on >others about things having to do with money. > > Brianna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > >> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all listers, >>> How are you all doing. >>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>> to >>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>> gadgets. >>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us >>> can >>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>> and >>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>> go >>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>> getting >>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>> reliable >>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>> you >>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>> >>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>> when >>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>> whole >>> lot in food places. >>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and >>> steel >>> from you especially change. >>> >>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>> anyhow, the following link is : >>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>> >>> thank you very much. >>> >>> Priscilla >>> >>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 21 19:16:51 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:16:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> Message-ID: <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon everyone, All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of us have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of "Putting the cart before the horse." Peter Donahue From: "brianna snyder" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on others about things having to do with money. Brianna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. > Beth > > On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >> hey all listers, >> How are you all doing. >> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >> interesting article on making accessible currency. >> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >> to >> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >> gadgets. >> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >> and >> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >> go >> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >> getting >> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >> reliable >> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >> you >> what it is if you forget the denomination. >> >> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >> when >> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >> whole >> lot in food places. >> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >> from you especially change. >> >> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >> anyhow, the following link is : >> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >> >> thank you very much. >> >> Priscilla >> >> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >> . >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 23:02:04 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:02:04 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Hi all, At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low Braille literacy rate. The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional barrier to blind people getting those jobs. The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. Cheers Arielle On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our > currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of us > have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper > bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of > "Putting the cart before the horse." > > Peter Donahue > > From: "brianna snyder" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > > I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on > others about things having to do with money. > > Brianna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > >> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all listers, >>> How are you all doing. >>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>> to >>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>> gadgets. >>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>> and >>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>> go >>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>> getting >>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>> reliable >>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>> you >>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>> >>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>> when >>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>> whole >>> lot in food places. >>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >>> from you especially change. >>> >>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>> anyhow, the following link is : >>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>> >>> thank you very much. >>> >>> Priscilla >>> >>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 22 01:52:37 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:52:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com><29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop><003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <002001c94c45$004c13d0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Arielle and listers, And the time required to examine the cash denominations to check their value. If this process will slow a cashier down our currency will still pose a barrier. Stores want their cashiers to rock; especially in these hard economic times. If things keep going the way they are and more and more stores close their brick and morder locations It won't be worth worrying about anyway. The media won't tell you this, but one of the main reasons why so many stores, including the big boys are closing many locations is due to the increased popularity of online shopping. This has been going on for years now and is only receiving media attention due to the increased momentum with which it's happening. Yes it's unfortunate that jobs are being lost, but it also means that new types of opportunities will be created in the years to come. Peter Donahue who enjoys having the option to shop online if he feels his local store is ripping him off due to his inability to distinguish paper currency denominations. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights Hi all, At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low Braille literacy rate. The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional barrier to blind people getting those jobs. The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. Cheers Arielle On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our > currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of > us > have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper > bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of > "Putting the cart before the horse." > > Peter Donahue > > From: "brianna snyder" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > > I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on > others about things having to do with money. > > Brianna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > >> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all listers, >>> How are you all doing. >>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>> to >>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>> gadgets. >>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us >>> can >>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>> and >>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>> go >>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>> getting >>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>> reliable >>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>> you >>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>> >>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>> when >>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>> whole >>> lot in food places. >>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and >>> steel >>> from you especially change. >>> >>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>> anyhow, the following link is : >>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>> >>> thank you very much. >>> >>> Priscilla >>> >>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From spaulding.scott at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 03:15:37 2008 From: spaulding.scott at gmail.com (Scott Spaulding) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:15:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> I have had some machines give 5's and 10's as well. Some machines will give $5 increments, at least the ones that PNC bank has in Louisville do. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights Hi all, At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low Braille literacy rate. The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional barrier to blind people getting those jobs. The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. Cheers Arielle On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our > currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of us > have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper > bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of > "Putting the cart before the horse." > > Peter Donahue > > From: "brianna snyder" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > > I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on > others about things having to do with money. > > Brianna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > >> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all listers, >>> How are you all doing. >>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>> to >>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>> gadgets. >>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>> and >>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>> go >>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>> getting >>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>> reliable >>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>> you >>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>> >>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>> when >>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>> whole >>> lot in food places. >>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >>> from you especially change. >>> >>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>> anyhow, the following link is : >>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>> >>> thank you very much. >>> >>> Priscilla >>> >>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gm ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm ail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 03:51:58 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:51:58 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, That's interesting--but if you're using a talking machine, it should tell you how much you're getting and then you can figure out what the bills are (i.e. if you want to withdraw $40 and you get eight bills, they must be all fives1!) I imagine the only time there might be a problem is if something happens to the machine. Arielle On 11/22/08, Scott Spaulding wrote: > I have had some machines give 5's and 10's as well. Some machines will give > $5 increments, at least the ones that PNC bank has in Louisville do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > Hi all, > > At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible > currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I > just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind > people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving > anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never > happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever > happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the > money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently > as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am > in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just > takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't > worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot > more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've > been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, > and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated > either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I > would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to > make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like > it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low > Braille literacy rate. > > The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is > because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as > cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that > inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional > barrier to blind people getting those jobs. > > The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the > money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively > involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly > accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. > > Cheers > Arielle > > On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our >> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of > us >> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper >> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of >> "Putting the cart before the horse." >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> From: "brianna snyder" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on >> others about things having to do with money. >> >> Brianna >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>> hey all listers, >>>> How are you all doing. >>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>>> to >>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>> gadgets. >>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us > can >>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>>> and >>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>>> go >>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>>> getting >>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>> reliable >>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>>> you >>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>> >>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>>> when >>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>>> whole >>>> lot in food places. >>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and > steel >>>> from you especially change. >>>> >>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>> >>>> thank you very much. >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>> . >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gm > ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From spangler.robert at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 04:33:29 2008 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:33:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions for current Blind Student Division Leaders Message-ID: <49278B99.60800@gmail.com> Hello all, I am just getting the Ohio Association of Blind Students up and running again. I was just sent a constitution and given some advice regarding how to handle membership and other details. Also, I was referred to this list for any suggestions that other division presidents may have for me. If there are any helpful tips that you would like to share, please share with me either on or off-list. Thanks, Robby OABS President From spaulding.scott at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 05:03:41 2008 From: spaulding.scott at gmail.com (Scott Spaulding) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:03:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <492792b9.0807c00a.46ac.31f7@mx.google.com> The only time I've gotten mixed bills is when the amount was something like $15, 25, 35 or 50 and since I've got some vision it is not too much of an issue as long as I get the bill close enough to read. Some of these machines don't talk, at least I've never noticed the headphone jack if they do. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights Hi Scott, That's interesting--but if you're using a talking machine, it should tell you how much you're getting and then you can figure out what the bills are (i.e. if you want to withdraw $40 and you get eight bills, they must be all fives1!) I imagine the only time there might be a problem is if something happens to the machine. Arielle On 11/22/08, Scott Spaulding wrote: > I have had some machines give 5's and 10's as well. Some machines will give > $5 increments, at least the ones that PNC bank has in Louisville do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > Hi all, > > At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible > currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I > just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind > people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving > anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never > happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever > happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the > money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently > as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am > in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just > takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't > worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot > more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've > been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, > and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated > either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I > would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to > make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like > it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low > Braille literacy rate. > > The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is > because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as > cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that > inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional > barrier to blind people getting those jobs. > > The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the > money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively > involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly > accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. > > Cheers > Arielle > > On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our >> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of > us >> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper >> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of >> "Putting the cart before the horse." >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> From: "brianna snyder" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on >> others about things having to do with money. >> >> Brianna >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>> hey all listers, >>>> How are you all doing. >>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>>> to >>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>> gadgets. >>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us > can >>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>>> and >>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>>> go >>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>>> getting >>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>> reliable >>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>>> you >>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>> >>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>>> when >>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>>> whole >>>> lot in food places. >>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and > steel >>>> from you especially change. >>>> >>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>> >>>> thank you very much. >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>> . >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gm > ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm ail.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Nov 22 17:08:46 2008 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:08:46 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [Nfb-fundraising] Young Community Volunteers Invited to Apply forDo Something Awards Message-ID: <4F8B11ED316C412DA8765275C748209D@owner96190708e> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everett Gavel" To: "NFB Fundraising Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: [Nfb-fundraising] Young Community Volunteers Invited to Apply forDo Something Awards This funding opportunity not only gets the youth's idea or project funded with $10,000, but may get $100,000 donated to the Nonprofit of the youth's choice. If someone could pass this along to the students' list(s), that'd be a good thing. Thanks. Strive On! Everett www.everettgavel.com Young Community Volunteers Invited to Apply for Do Something Awards Deadline: March 1, 2009 The Do Something Awards, formerly the Brick Awards, are designed to provide recognition and funding for young community volunteers. Do Something Award Winners receive a community grant, participation in a special award ceremony, media coverage, and continued support from Do Something ( http://www.dosomething.org/). In the 2009 program, five winners will receive a minimum of $10,000 in community grants and scholarships. (Only winners 18 and under are eligible for a scholarship of $5,000 and a $5,000 community grant; winners between the ages of 19 and 25 will receive their entire award in the form of a community grant.) Of the five winners, one will be selected as the grand-prize winner and will receive a total of $100,000 in community grants, paid directly to the nonprofit of his or her choice. Do Something Award applications go through two stages. First, the Do Something Award Academy (comprised of former winners) reads through all the applications and selects the finalists. Finalists are then flown to New York City for interviews with representatives from the Do Something Award Selection Committee. The five Do Something Award winners will be announced in the spring of 2009. The grand-prize winner will be announced in the summer of 2009. Visit the Do Something Web site for complete program guidelines. RFP Link: http://fconline.foundationcenter.org/pnd/15015936/dosomething _______________________________________________ Nfb-fundraising mailing list Nfb-fundraising at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-fundraising_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfb-fundraising: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-fundraising_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 22 22:22:44 2008 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:22:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <014901c94cf0$d7c1bcb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Scott and listers, Since our ATMS around here only allow you to make withdrawals in increments of $20 you can assume that all of your change will be in $20 bills. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Spaulding" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights I have had some machines give 5's and 10's as well. Some machines will give $5 increments, at least the ones that PNC bank has in Louisville do. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights Hi all, At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low Braille literacy rate. The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional barrier to blind people getting those jobs. The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. Cheers Arielle On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good afternoon everyone, > > All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our > currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of us > have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper > bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of > "Putting the cart before the horse." > > Peter Donahue > > From: "brianna snyder" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > > I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on > others about things having to do with money. > > Brianna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights > > >> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >> Beth >> >> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all listers, >>> How are you all doing. >>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>> to >>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>> gadgets. >>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>> and >>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>> go >>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>> getting >>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>> reliable >>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>> you >>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>> >>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>> when >>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>> whole >>> lot in food places. >>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >>> from you especially change. >>> >>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>> anyhow, the following link is : >>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>> >>> thank you very much. >>> >>> Priscilla >>> >>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gm ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 11:38:32 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:38:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <20081123113832.GA40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> Arielle, I have an ATM nearby that gives out $5, $10, and $20. In Eugene, across from a credit union there is an ATM that drops out $10 bills in little tubes. This idea that we can all live off of ATM cards was the Bush argument of the Bush administration. It didn't fly. An electronic device isn't my preference, but if that's the solution the government goes with, and they're paying for it, I want a device that works 100% of the time. Current bills and current technology basically don't give that promise. If the bill has been marked in some way, run through a washing machine, or any number of things that do happen to money, the scanner might not recognize the bill as valid. Solve that, and I'm okay with an electronic scanner. Joseph On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:02:04AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, > >At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible >currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I >just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind >people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving >anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never >happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever >happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the >money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently >as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am >in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just >takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't >worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot >more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've >been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, >and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated >either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I >would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to >make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like >it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low >Braille literacy rate. > >The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is >because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as >cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that >inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional >barrier to blind people getting those jobs. > >The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the >money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively >involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly >accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. > >Cheers >Arielle > >On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our >> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of us >> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper >> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of >> "Putting the cart before the horse." >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> From: "brianna snyder" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on >> others about things having to do with money. >> >> Brianna >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>> hey all listers, >>>> How are you all doing. >>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>>> to >>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>> gadgets. >>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us can >>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>>> and >>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>>> go >>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>>> getting >>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>> reliable >>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>>> you >>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>> >>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>>> when >>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>>> whole >>>> lot in food places. >>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and steel >>>> from you especially change. >>>> >>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>> >>>> thank you very much. >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>> . >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 11:40:57 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:40:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <49277964.0807c00a.46cf.22d9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20081123114057.GB40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> Arielle, If you withdraw $50 and you get 3 bills, which is which? Joseph On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 02:51:58PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi Scott, > >That's interesting--but if you're using a talking machine, it should >tell you how much you're getting and then you can figure out what the >bills are (i.e. if you want to withdraw $40 and you get eight bills, >they must be all fives1!) > >I imagine the only time there might be a problem is if something >happens to the machine. > >Arielle > >On 11/22/08, Scott Spaulding wrote: >> I have had some machines give 5's and 10's as well. Some machines will give >> $5 increments, at least the ones that PNC bank has in Louisville do. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> Hi all, >> >> At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible >> currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I >> just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind >> people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving >> anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never >> happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever >> happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the >> money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently >> as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am >> in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just >> takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't >> worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot >> more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've >> been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, >> and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated >> either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I >> would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to >> make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like >> it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low >> Braille literacy rate. >> >> The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is >> because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as >> cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that >> inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional >> barrier to blind people getting those jobs. >> >> The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the >> money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively >> involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly >> accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. >> >> Cheers >> Arielle >> >> On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> All the while performing financial transactions successfully with our >>> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure more of >> us >>> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how paper >>> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case of >>> "Putting the cart before the horse." >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> From: "brianna snyder" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >>> >>> >>> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to rely on >>> others about things having to do with money. >>> >>> Brianna >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >>> >>> >>>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>>> hey all listers, >>>>> How are you all doing. >>>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is found >>>>> to >>>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing the >>>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since we have >>>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>>> gadgets. >>>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all of us >> can >>>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at a dorm >>>>> and >>>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so whenever I >>>>> go >>>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I am >>>>> getting >>>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>>> reliable >>>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to tell >>>>> you >>>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>>> >>>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I want to be >>>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger because >>>>> when >>>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these days. >>>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its happening a >>>>> whole >>>>> lot in food places. >>>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest and >> steel >>>>> from you especially change. >>>>> >>>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>>> >>>>> thank you very much. >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> >>>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since president >>>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>>> . >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gm >> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba >> l.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >> m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 17:59:55 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:59:55 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: <20081123113832.GA40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <20081123113832.GA40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <94DA2C05-68A9-442B-927D-7C6FA8D83500@gmail.com> Howdy folks, As I've said before, I'm studying in Ireland this semester. The Euro currency does have different sized bills -- and it doesn't help much without another tool. The variance between the bills' lengths is about a quarter of an inch, so just having one bill on its own doesn't tell you what denomination it is. It does help, though, that most folks use coins for transactions (since we have 1 and 2 Euro coins, not notes). However, there is a plastic tool that you can obtain (my friend gave me one of his that he bought in Germany) where you put the bill in something that's about the size of a credit card, then fold the bill over the top and it lines up with a bit of Braille that says 5, 10, 20, 50, or 100. So it sounds great in theory for the US currency to be tactilely distinguishable, but it won't be an automatic -- you'll still need something else to be sure of a bill's denomination. ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 23, 2008, at 11:38 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: Arielle, I have an ATM nearby that gives out $5, $10, and $20. In Eugene, across from a credit union there is an ATM that drops out $10 bills in little tubes. This idea that we can all live off of ATM cards was the Bush argument of the Bush administration. It didn't fly. An electronic device isn't my preference, but if that's the solution the government goes with, and they're paying for it, I want a device that works 100% of the time. Current bills and current technology basically don't give that promise. If the bill has been marked in some way, run through a washing machine, or any number of things that do happen to money, the scanner might not recognize the bill as valid. Solve that, and I'm okay with an electronic scanner. Joseph On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:02:04AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible > currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I > just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind > people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving > anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never > happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever > happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the > money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently > as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am > in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just > takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't > worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot > more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've > been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, > and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated > either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I > would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to > make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like > it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low > Braille literacy rate. > > The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is > because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as > cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that > inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional > barrier to blind people getting those jobs. > > The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the > money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively > involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly > accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. > > Cheers > Arielle > > On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> All the while performing financial transactions successfully >> with our >> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure >> more of us >> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about >> how paper >> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case >> of >> "Putting the cart before the horse." >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> From: "brianna snyder" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to >> rely on >> others about things having to do with money. >> >> Brianna >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >> >> >>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>> hey all listers, >>>> How are you all doing. >>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is >>>> found >>>> to >>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing >>>> the >>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since >>>> we have >>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>> gadgets. >>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all >>>> of us can >>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at >>>> a dorm >>>> and >>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so >>>> whenever I >>>> go >>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I >>>> am >>>> getting >>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>> reliable >>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to >>>> tell >>>> you >>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>> >>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I >>>> want to be >>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger >>>> because >>>> when >>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these >>>> days. >>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its >>>> happening a >>>> whole >>>> lot in food places. >>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest >>>> and steel >>>> from you especially change. >>>> >>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>> >>>> thank you very much. >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since >>>> president >>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>> . >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 20:54:02 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:54:02 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions for current Blind Student Division Leaders In-Reply-To: <49278B99.60800@gmail.com> References: <49278B99.60800@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Robby, Congratulations on being elected OABS president and working to revitalize the student division in Ohio! We're so glad you are on the list and that you're interested in networking and learning from other state division presidents. NABS is currently compiling a set of documents specifically geared for new state student divisions, and these documents will be available on our Web site when it is launched on Jan. 5, 2009. So stay tuned! In the meantime, since you just recently organized, your main tasks in the short term will be organizing your division's membership list, getting the constitution approved by the affiliate and setting up banking procedures of some kind. Your state president and/or other affiliate members will be able to help you with the specifics in your state and you may also be able to borrow materials from the old Ohio student division. I was also the founding president of a state division (in Arizona) and would be glad to answer any specific questions you have off-list at arielle71 at gmail.com You can also contact J.J. Meddaugh, NABS secretary and regional rep for Ohio, at jj at bestmidi.com Finally, we do have a special list for state division presidents. Anyone on the list who is a division president, if you're not yet on that list please write to Terri Rupp at nabs.president at gmail.com It is a closed list, so she will need to arrange for your subscription on it. Good luck! Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS On 11/22/08, Robert Spangler wrote: > Hello all, > > I am just getting the Ohio Association of Blind Students up and running > again. I was just sent a constitution and given some advice regarding > how to handle membership and other details. Also, I was referred to > this list for any suggestions that other division presidents may have > for me. If there are any helpful tips that you would like to share, > please share with me either on or off-list. > > Thanks, > Robby > OABS President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 21:55:43 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:55:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] money rights In-Reply-To: <94DA2C05-68A9-442B-927D-7C6FA8D83500@gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811202028l3fd93acco28843856bb87e49@mail.gmail.com> <29A3B1276FFB4102ABCA93C2B137ABC5@briannadesktop> <003f01c94c0d$b5da2cb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <20081123113832.GA40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> <94DA2C05-68A9-442B-927D-7C6FA8D83500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081123215543.GD40386@yumi.bluecherry.net> Corbb, No matter what is done to the money, the techniques of blindness are still likely to be necessary. Some people have gotten the mistaken notion that suddenly the money is going to be completely identifiable by touch--that's possible I suppose (Australian plastic currency can be), but that's just not going to be practical for a paper currency. Whatever is done with this is going to be a front-end into the skills we already have--that is, I'll keep folding my money, but I'll know with certainty that this thing I'm folding as a twenty isn't actually a dollar bill. Joseph On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 05:59:55PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > Howdy folks, > > As I've said before, I'm studying in Ireland this semester. The Euro > currency does have different sized bills -- and it doesn't help much > without another tool. The variance between the bills' lengths is about a > quarter of an inch, so just having one bill on its own doesn't tell you > what denomination it is. It does help, though, that most folks use coins > for transactions (since we have 1 and 2 Euro coins, not notes). However, > there is a plastic tool that you can obtain (my friend gave me one of his > that he bought in Germany) where you put the bill in something that's > about the size of a credit card, then fold the bill over the top and it > lines up with a bit of Braille that says 5, 10, 20, 50, or 100. So it > sounds great in theory for the US currency to be tactilely > distinguishable, but it won't be an automatic -- you'll still need > something else to be sure of a bill's denomination. > > ----- > Corbb O'Connor > studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 11:38 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > > Arielle, > > I have an ATM nearby that gives out $5, $10, and $20. In Eugene, across > from a credit union there is an ATM that drops out $10 bills in little > tubes. > > This idea that we can all live off of ATM cards was the Bush argument of > the Bush administration. It didn't fly. > > An electronic device isn't my preference, but if that's the solution the > government goes with, and they're paying for it, I want a device that > works 100% of the time. Current bills and current technology basically > don't give that promise. If the bill has been marked in some way, run > through a washing machine, or any number of things that do happen to > money, the scanner might not recognize the bill as valid. Solve that, > and I'm okay with an electronic scanner. > > Joseph > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:02:04AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> At the risk of igniting another fiery debate about the accessible >> currency issue, which to an extent has already been decided for us, I >> just want to make a couple of technical points about how blind >> people handle money. First of all, I have never heard of an ATM giving >> anything but $20 bills. I suppose it's possible, but it's never >> happened to me or to any other blind people I know. Has it ever >> happened to any of you? Since I think I can pretty safely assume the >> money I get from an ATM is all in $20 bills, I use ATM's independently >> as long as they're accessible. Also, when I get money in a store I am >> in the habit of quickly asking which bill is which. I ask, which just >> takes a few seconds and then I fold the money, put it away and don't >> worry about it. It would seem like blind people would be cheated a lot >> more than they actually are by cashiers when they give change. I've >> been handling money since I was a preteen and have never been cheated, >> and I have never heard of any other blind people being cheated >> either. Again, if there were a lot of blind people being cheated I >> would be more supportive of moving forward on changing the currency to >> make it accessible, but since this problem seems so rare I feel like >> it's just not a huge priority--compared to other issues like the low >> Braille literacy rate. >> >> The only reason I would actively promote making currency accessible is >> because this might make it easier for blind people to get jobs as >> cashiers and bank tellers. But even then, I'd imagine that >> inaccessible cashier or bank equipment might present an additional >> barrier to blind people getting those jobs. >> >> The bottom line, though, is if the court has already ruled that the >> money must be changed, we as blind consumers need to be actively >> involved in the process of developing a currency that is truly >> accessible and not cost-prohibitive to make. >> >> Cheers >> Arielle >> >> On 11/22/08, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> All the while performing financial transactions successfully with >>> our >>> currency as it now is. What happened to the need to first ensure >>> more of us >>> have paying jobs so we have money to spend before worrying about how >>> paper >>> bills can be distinguished from one/another. This is a classic case >>> of >>> "Putting the cart before the horse." >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> From: "brianna snyder" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >>> >>> >>> I agree with you, Priscilla. It would be best if we didn't have to >>> rely on >>> others about things having to do with money. >>> >>> Brianna >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:28 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money rights >>> >>> >>>> Interesting stuff there, Prescilla. I agree with you. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 11/20/08, priscilla wrote: >>>>> hey all listers, >>>>> How are you all doing. >>>>> I was googling ways of reading credit cards, and I came across this >>>>> interesting article on making accessible currency. >>>>> It appears that bush was the one giving us problems because he is >>>>> found >>>>> to >>>>> have appealed the jurisdiction of making it accessible providing >>>>> the >>>>> argument that states that we shouldn't change the currency since >>>>> we have >>>>> accessible ways of identifying money through the use of electronic >>>>> gadgets. >>>>> I really think this is very unfair first of all because not all >>>>> of us can >>>>> afford spending hundreds of dollars on such device. >>>>> Second of all, I am a college student who lives independently at >>>>> a dorm >>>>> and >>>>> everyone is not always there when I need to identify money so >>>>> whenever I >>>>> go >>>>> to the ATM's, I have to go with a friend to verify if the money I >>>>> am >>>>> getting >>>>> is a 20 and fold it along ways. >>>>> I have methods of folding money but trust me, they are not always >>>>> reliable >>>>> and are not accurate because you still have to rely on someone to >>>>> tell >>>>> you >>>>> what it is if you forget the denomination. >>>>> >>>>> I am very frustrated about this because like everyone else, I >>>>> want to be >>>>> able to handle money myself and not trust other total stranger >>>>> because >>>>> when >>>>> it comes to money, I have some doubts about certain people these >>>>> days. >>>>> We hear a lot of fraud going on, even in the news and its >>>>> happening a >>>>> whole >>>>> lot in food places. >>>>> beware of restaurants because some people can be very dishonest >>>>> and steel >>>>> from you especially change. >>>>> >>>>> this is just my personal thoughts and opinions. >>>>> anyhow, the following link is : >>>>> http://www.wkms.org/programming/fuhrmann.htm >>>>> >>>>> thank you very much. >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> >>>>> Ps. I really hope president Obama can really change this since >>>>> president >>>>> bush was greedy enough to appeal the case. >>>>> Please reply on the list with any opinions of the article. >>>>> . >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/briannasnyder90%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From startrekcafe at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 03:34:23 2008 From: startrekcafe at gmail.com (Marvin Hunkin) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:34:23 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Imagine Cup Student Competition Message-ID: <1AB7017374FE43048719485D7EAC8FF8@marvinPC> Hi. if any one is interested in this e-mail me privately via startrekcafe at gmail.com and will paste the following message below. cheers Marvin. Hi. well, did post on the forums on http://www.ImagineCup.com, in the web design, australia and mashup sections. had no replies yet. so was wondering, any students on this list, would maybe like me to form a team, or for me to join a team. if this post is not on topic. sorry, been a while since i reade the rules of this list. but trying to keep on blindness and vision impairment. so, if not on topic, then will take my question on another list. so, what do you vips think. do have it a current working demo version, but needs a lot of work, in the areas of design, as got frames at the moment, and from what i have read on w3c, that frames, are frowned upon for accessibility. second, was thinking of revamping the interface, and so any programmers of say php, asp, or java script would come in handy. to have a form, with combo boxes, and for the different section, have combo boxes, with text labels, and also rollover images, also. and then when the user say clicks on the different combo boxes, four at least for region, country, disability and service, takes the user to that page with links to site on that page. then have a second section called navigation with a heading, and have a combo box, to jump back to the current section, or to navigate to other areas of the website. am i crazy, or do you have any other suggestions, which i would be happy to take on board. this site has to work for sighted as well as users with disaibilities and also, work on multiple browsers, not just internet explorer. so here's the invitation. cheers Marvin. From nijat1989 at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 05:22:46 2008 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:22:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings Message-ID: Greetings to all NABS members, I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I would introduce myself. I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can learn from all of you. Thank you very much. All the best wishes to everyone. At your service, Nijat From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Nov 24 07:07:50 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:07:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's so nice to meet you, Nijat. Welcome to the list. It's full of great people who give equally advice and knowledge. Have a great day, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gmail Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:23 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings Greetings to all NABS members, I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I would introduce myself. I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can learn from all of you. Thank you very much. All the best wishes to everyone. At your service, Nijat _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 12:36:32 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:36:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: Message-ID: <000f01c94e31$48fffdb0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Hi welcome to the land of nabs. My name is Rania, I live in am attending my local community college in New Jersey. I am taking massage therapy there. You will learn a lot from this list. Don't be afraid to ask questions or jump in to a thred because we have something that we can teach one another and we can learn from one another. I look forward to reading your posts. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "gmail" To: Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > Greetings to all NABS members, > I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and > a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I > would introduce myself. > I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and > am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have > been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, > and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of > Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships > of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I > decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could > keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of > you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can > learn from all of you. Thank you very much. > All the best wishes to everyone. > At your service, > Nijat > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 13:55:24 2008 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:55:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings In-Reply-To: <000f01c94e31$48fffdb0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000f01c94e31$48fffdb0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Hello and welcome to the lest! My name is Franandah and I'm a sophmore in highschool. Feel free to ask anything. There will always be somone who either knows, or will find the answer. On 11/24/08, Rania wrote: > Hi welcome to the land of nabs. My name is Rania, I live in am attending my > local community college in New Jersey. I am taking massage therapy there. > You will learn a lot from this list. Don't be afraid to ask questions or > jump in to a thred because we have something that we can teach one another > and we can learn from one another. I look forward to reading your posts. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gmail" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > > >> Greetings to all NABS members, >> I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and >> a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I >> would introduce myself. >> I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and >> am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have >> been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, >> and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of >> >> Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships >> of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I >> decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could >> keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of >> >> you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can >> learn from all of you. Thank you very much. >> All the best wishes to everyone. >> At your service, >> Nijat >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From KBowman at nfb.org Mon Nov 24 23:09:45 2008 From: KBowman at nfb.org (Bowman, Kristi) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:09:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Motor City March- Urgent - Register Now Message-ID: Subject: Motor City March- Urgent - Register Now National Federation of the Blind logo Graphic Photo boy with cane on the beach March for Independence logo Register Now for the Motor City March for Independence! http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/R?i=FqTi0Ig1HZ-5u4ijBcMVQg.. If you were registered last year, you may NOT be registered this year! Visit the Registration page to sign up now! http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/R?i=cQL_olw1gmrCpsvXqsH0QA.. You can also register by sending an e-mail to Kristi Bowman at kbowman at nfb.org or by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2406 Thank you, thank you, thank you! From JFreeh at nfb.org Mon Nov 24 23:16:33 2008 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:16:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Michael Hingson to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Public Relations Specialist National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Michael Hingson to Serve as National Ambassador for Braille Literacy Baltimore, Maryland (November 24, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation’s leading advocate for Braille literacy, announced today that Michael Hingson, World Trade Center survivor and internationally acclaimed public speaker, will serve as a National Ambassador for Braille literacy. As an ambassador, Michael will help advance the NFB’s Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, a national initiative to promote the importance of reading and writing Braille for blind children and adults. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of the design of a commemorative coin to be minted in 2009 in recognition of the two-hundredth anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille (1809–1852), the inventor of the reading and writing code for the blind that bears his name. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have Michael Hingson as part of this historic initiative to bring Braille literacy to all of the blind children and adults in America who need it. As a unique keynote and inspirational speaker, as well as a user of Braille, Michael will certainly be an enormous asset in spreading the importance of Braille literacy to the masses. There can be no doubt that the ability to read and write Braille competently and efficiently is the key to education, employment, and success for the blind. Despite the undisputed value of Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind children in the United States are currently learning it. Society would never accept a 10 percent literacy rate among sighted children; it should not accept such an outrageously low literacy rate among the blind. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, with the support of influential Americans like Michael Hingson, will reverse the downward trend in Braille literacy and ensure that equal opportunities in education and employment are available to all of the nation’s blind.” Michael Hingson said: “It is an honor to serve as a National Ambassador for the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign. Braille is the only viable means for both reading and writing by blind persons and the only true alternative to printed matter. I would never have been able to learn to read and write, much less be successful in the work place, if I hadn't learned to use Braille. As a public speaker and living proof of the power of Braille, I am dedicated to helping the National Federation of the Blind to inspire children and adults across the country to learn Braille.” For more information about the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign and the Louis Braille commemorative coin, please visit www.braille.org. ### From newmanrl at cox.net Tue Nov 25 03:25:08 2008 From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Newman) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:25:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #139- Is There Redemption for a Blind Chicken Message-ID: <0D5E193AC78B4744835F72CA4634C23F@D78R0TG1> NABS listers RE: Is There Redemption for a Blind Chicken The new #139 THOUGHT PROVOKER is a page out of the adjustment history of one woman's struggle to cope with her blindness. See where she was at. By sharing this incident, she hopes to help others to not get stuck where she once was. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER 139 Is There Redemption for a Blind Chicken Co-authors- Virginia Sblendorio Robert Leslie Newman "Want to go for a ride?" The voice on the phone was my older sister, who had recently moved within a few miles from me. "I have to run to the supermarket and pick up a couple of things." "Sure," I said, I didn't need anything from the store, but not able to drive any more, I relish any opportunity to go for a drive no matter how mundane the trip. Hearing my sister's car pull into the driveway, I flipped on the light switch for my porch light as I stepped out, fingers brushing the handle of my white cane where it rested upright in the corner. It would be twilight or even dark by the time I got home. "Hey little Sis, where's your cane?" asked my older sister as I slipped into the front seat? "I saw you feeling with your feet for those steps." "Oh, just going to the store with you I don't need it." My answer was of course to put her off. I wasn't going to share with her the extent to which I resented my cane. I rarely used it. It made me stand out in a crowd in a way I did not care for. At the store's parking lot we found it to be nearly full and it was necessary to park a long way from the entrance. On the way in we cut through rows of cars, which worked well for me, because it put my sister in my best visual range and easier to follow. However, nearing the doors there were people going every direction, and I lost her in the crowd. But I made it inside okay, but the inside lighting was so bright compared to the rapidly dimming outdoors, I was essentially blinded. "Little Sis, if you had that cane, you wouldn't have to just stand there," said my older sister. I clutched my older sister's arm as she snagged a shopping cart and together we went up and down the aisles in tandem. In the meat department, we found a manager's special on chickens. "Little Sis, you love chicken. You should pick up a couple of these," urged my older sister and I agreed. I selected two packages, tore the coupons off, and pressed their sticky sides to my forearm. Since my sight began to fail me, I have found many ways to "remember" what I cannot see. I have often purchased things with "redeem at register" coupons attached, only to realize after I got home that they were not redeemed. Now I take them off and stick them on my forearm so I do not forget. We finished shopping and headed to the registers to pay. Realizing my items were to be first, I spoke up. "Those are the chicken's which were on sale." "Ah, I don't see the." the cashier began. "Oh, here they are," I informed him, peeling the stickers off my arm. Relishing the opportunity to educate, I politely told him that I was visually impaired. I explained why I stuck the coupons to my arm. "Well ah...I'll have to call over a manager. Ah, company policy." When the store manager arrived, I again explained myself. "Interesting, but removing the coupons voids the discount," the manager said and his tone left no doubt he was not going to budge. I was speechless and angry and my thoughts ricocheted in my head like a trapped bird. I thought about leaving the chicken and store immediately but with my fierce pride, I was not going to ask my sister to leave that store to go to another after filling a cart with groceries. Perhaps I should have had my white cane with me. Perhaps I should have laughed it off. Ultimately, I felt powerless. I felt like a coward. I felt ashamed of being blind, ashamed of allowing my emotions to get the better of me and ashamed of being bullied. I paid for my order and went home with a bellyache and a very angry sister. Stupid cane! Robert Leslie Newman Email- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info From sbray7 at cox.net Tue Nov 25 04:16:07 2008 From: sbray7 at cox.net (Dr. Scott Wendell Bray) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:16:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New book on sudden sight loss can benefit NFB Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081124220524.03578e70@visi.com> I have been asked to circulate the following: David Andrews New book on sudden sight loss can benefit NFB Suddenly Blind Adult (SBA), Suddenly Disabled Adult (SDA), and Suddenly Ill Adult (SIA) Survivor's Guide: The Emancipation Proclamation for Independent Living, copyright 2008, Scott Wendell Bray, Ph.D., is a witty, realistic, practical, and understanding book for individuals who must face blindness in an instant. Reviews on the book have been positive and the Kirkus Discovery Review is located below. Dr. Bray has offered to donate 50% of the royalties for each book ordered by a NFB member or affiliate member, to the NFB. As Christmas giving draws our thoughts, a book purchase can both assist a loved one and help the NFB. The book may be purchased by: First: Entering on the Amazon.Com link and ordering on-line for the daily purchase price of $15; Second: Downloading the book at the book website at www.suddenlyblindadult.org or www.suddenlyinjuredadult.org and downloading the book for $10 (with $5.00 going to the NFB); Third: To receive as a email attachment, sending email address and a check or money order for $10 (NFB gets $5) to: Suddenly Blind Adult Trust Department First National Bank PO BOX 2380 Las Cruces, NM 88004-2380 or Fourth: For fund raising projects and bulk orders, contacting the author at DrScottBray at suddenlyinjuredadult.org The author royalties are usually 35% of each book sold on Amazon.Com, but are 100% of all downloads or emailed copies. Dr. Scott Bray lost his vision in a head-on auto accident, which killed his young son and welcomed him into the blind fraternity. He is the author of numerous articles on social justice and educational issues. He has been involved in rehabilitation and educational work most of his career. "This book may amuse most blind persons," noted Bray. "However, for those suddenly cast into blindness, living alone or without strong social support, it may prove instructive, motivational, and inspiring." The National Center for the Suddenly Injured Adult Table with 5 columns and 5 rows NCSIA logo National Center for the Suddenly Injured Adult Book Front Cover Block quote start Read Excerpts Click to Purchase the Book Block quote end The following is the official review of Dr. Bray's book from Kirkus Discoveries. Download the original Book Review here: common/icon_pdf Kirkus Discoveries Logo Block quote start A guide to not just coping, but living in the wake of a sudden catastrophic disability. Bray, who operates a healing ministry in Arizona and experienced an accident years ago in which he lost his sight, is a testament to St. Barton's ode: "I am hurt, but I am not slain. I will lie me down and bleed awhile, then I will rise up and fight again." In a voice that is businesslike, but still buoyant, he advocates for maintaining one's independence and decision-making authority in the face of disability, plowing through the trauma, humiliation and embarrassment that a sudden change in your physical health entails. Bray's advice is sprinkled with nondenominational Christianity and leavened with humor: "This book cannot and will not diminish the absolute hell of a suddenly blind individual, but if in hell, why not bring an air conditioner and try to beat the devil at his own game." The author's mantra is that a person will only be victimized if he or she plays the role of a victim. Bray advises those living with disabilities to follow his brass-tacks listing of commandments, including warnings, reminders and rules: how to secure mobility ("develop the right 'attitude' by never looking at the ground while traveling. Since the [suddenly blind] can't see it anyway, it doesn't make sense to look down"), tap into the benefits available for higher education, deal with finances and organize a kitchen and cook. The author wants the suddenly disabled to be their own masters and delegate any personal authority only as a last resort, while taking full advantage of the laws assisting persons with disabilities, and the panoply of community resources at their disposal. Much of the book covers optimizing use of the computer for entertainment and information, and it closes with a short segment on physical fitness. The author spells out each of his prescriptions in aching detail, leaving no issue unexplored. Thoroughly encouraging and, best of all, entirely practical. Kirkus Discoveries, Nielsen Business Media, 770 Broadway, New York, NY 10003 discoveries at kirkusreviews.com Block quote end About the Book About the Author Table of Contents Excerpts from the Book Purchase the Book Contact the Author COPYRIGHT © National Center for the Suddenly Injured Adult, 2008 table end Home Suddenly Blind, Disabled or Injured Adult Contact Us From blind411 at verizon.net Tue Nov 25 04:28:15 2008 From: blind411 at verizon.net (National Federation of the Blind) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:28:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcement: The NAGDU Board Wants Your Input! Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081124221951.03578e70@visi.com> We have been asked to circulate the following: David Andrews Please circulate the following message as widely as possible. November 24, 2008 The Board of Directors of the National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU), a strong and proud division of the National Federation of the Blind, is soliciting input from its members and potential members. We are considering changes to our membership dues and amendments to our national and affiliate division constitutions. In the true spirit of Federation democracy and collective action, the NAGDU Board is asking you to provide your input and suggestions. We especially want to hear from those of you who are members of state affiliate Divisions, as this will have the greatest impact on you! The next meeting of the NAGDU Board will be held via teleconference on Sunday, November 30 at 8:00 pm Eastern (7:00 pm Central, 6:00 pm Mountain, 5:00 pm pacific). The call-in instructions are pasted below my signature. Since we consider any guide dog user, future guide dog user, or anyone who has an interest in guide dog related issues a potential member, anyone who fits one of these categories is welcome to participate. The National Association of Guide Dog Users is also planning some dynamic, interesting teleconference discussions and training workshops in 2009. Details of these events will be posted to the NAGDU mailing list, so you may want to subscribe to this special interest list sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind. To subscribe, go to http://www.nfbnet.org click on �Join or drop NFB mailing lists, find the link to the National Association of Guide Dog Users, and complete the subscription information. Again, you need not be a member of the National Federation of the Blind or the National Association of Guide Dog Users to be a part of our group lists. If you would like more information about the National Association of Guide Dog Users or the national Federation of the Blind, you may visit our web sites at http://www.nfb-nagdu.org http://www.nfb.org You may also get in touch with me by email or telephone. My contact information is below my signature. Together we are changing what it means to be blind! Fraternally yours, Marion Gwizdala, President National Association of Guide Dog Users National Federation of the Blind 813-626-2789 800-558-8261 president at nfb-nagdu.org Conference Participant Instructions * At the specified time, call (641) 715-3300 * When prompted, enter your participant code: 560908# Please note: This conference will be recorded. Participation in the conference implies an agreement to and authorization for such recording in compliance with state and federal laws. During the conference call, participants may use the following commands: *3 exits the conference and puts you in the lobby. *6 mutes the participant. Pressing the command again unmutes the participant. From jj at bestmidi.com Tue Nov 25 04:46:00 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:46:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Bargains Black Friday Coverage Message-ID: <5D0EEEEF350F46C9B089AAC41B02D316@ginormous> Beat the Crowds with BlindBargains.com Black Friday and Cyber Monday Coverage http://www.blindbargains.com/blackfriday.php So many ads and so little time. Let Blind Bargains sort out the details as we present to you the absolute best deals for Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and beyond both online and in stores. Watch for cheap laptops, hard drives, MP3 players, televisions, and much more. We'll also cover sales from the assistive technology vendors and distributors. Don't worry, for the non techie folks, we'll post other cool gift ideas, holiday items, clothing, and more. Check back often, as we'll be posting many more deals throughout the week. Be sure to subscribe to our Email list, follow us on Twitter, Subscribe to our RSS feed, and check our site often to get the absolute latest posts, as many deals only last for a short time. Links to all of these are available on the home page. Also, you can use our search box to find millions of products from online stores and EBay auctions. If you are looking for the best deal on a particular item, or have any questions, please send us a note. bargains at blindbargains.com From tkavita at abdn.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 13:14:46 2008 From: tkavita at abdn.ac.uk (Thomas, Kavita E) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:14:46 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--please participate! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hello, We're developing a prototype system which takes numerical data found on maps online (like census data) and communicates it as texts so that it's accessible to the blind and VI community. I'm running a final experiment now to find out which texts are most preferred by blind and VI users so that we can implement these in our system, and so I was hoping that you might participate if you're blind or severely visually-impaired. The experiment takes on average half an hour and it's online, so you can do it whenever is best for you, though it needs to be done all in one sitting without taking breaks or pauses in the middle. It's also quite repetitive, as you'll be listening to 10 texts and answering questions about each of them, but your participation will really make a difference and help us to produce texts which make the most sense to blind and VI users in general. Please forward this on to anyone else who you think might be willing to participate. The website to go to to take the experiment is: http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~tkavita/Experiments/RefFrame/ Thanks very much, Dr Kavita Thomas the Atlas.txt project: www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/research/atlas Department of Computing Science University of Aberdeen The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. From nijat1989 at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 18:22:54 2008 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:22:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: <000f01c94e31$48fffdb0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Thanks Franandah, I appreciate the warm welcome. I am sure everyone in this list will be helpful to me. The same goes for me. If you have questions about anything, please feel free to e-mail me and I will be glad to answer any questions. Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franandah Damstra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > Hello and welcome to the lest! My name is Franandah and I'm a sophmore > in highschool. Feel free to ask anything. There will always be somone > who either knows, or will find the answer. > > On 11/24/08, Rania wrote: >> Hi welcome to the land of nabs. My name is Rania, I live in am attending >> my >> local community college in New Jersey. I am taking massage therapy there. >> You will learn a lot from this list. Don't be afraid to ask questions or >> jump in to a thred because we have something that we can teach one >> another >> and we can learn from one another. I look forward to reading your posts. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "gmail" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings >> >> >>> Greetings to all NABS members, >>> I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, >>> and >>> a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I >>> would introduce myself. >>> I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and >>> am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I >>> have >>> been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years >>> now, >>> and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association >>> of >>> >>> Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships >>> of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I >>> decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could >>> keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all >>> of >>> >>> you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I >>> can >>> learn from all of you. Thank you very much. >>> All the best wishes to everyone. >>> At your service, >>> Nijat >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From nijat1989 at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 18:29:33 2008 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:29:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: <000f01c94e31$48fffdb0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Greetings Rania, Thank you very much. I am usually not shy about jumping in to express my opinion on any matter. I am sure there will be lots of interesting topics being discussed. I hope college is treating you well. All the best Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > Hi welcome to the land of nabs. My name is Rania, I live in am attending > my local community college in New Jersey. I am taking massage therapy > there. You will learn a lot from this list. Don't be afraid to ask > questions or jump in to a thred because we have something that we can > teach one another and we can learn from one another. I look forward to > reading your posts. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gmail" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > > >> Greetings to all NABS members, >> I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and >> a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I >> would introduce myself. >> I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and >> am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have >> been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, >> and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association >> of Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado >> scholarships of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB >> and NABS, I decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so >> that I could keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get >> to know all of you through this great resource in the near future, and I >> hope that I can learn from all of you. Thank you very much. >> All the best wishes to everyone. >> At your service, >> Nijat >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From nijat1989 at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 18:31:44 2008 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:31:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: Message-ID: Thank you very much. Nice to meet you too. Looking forward to meeting all of you on this list at convention. At your service, Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > It's so nice to meet you, Nijat. Welcome to the list. It's full of great > people who give equally advice and knowledge. > Have a great day, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of gmail > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:23 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > > Greetings to all NABS members, > I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and > a > dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I > would > introduce myself. > I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and > am > double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have > been > a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, and > currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of > Blind > Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships of the > NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I decided > that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could keep in > touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of you > through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can > learn > from all of you. Thank you very much. > All the best wishes to everyone. > At your service, > Nijat > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Nov 26 01:15:34 2008 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:15:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: Message-ID: <00d201c94f64$7c374290$0201a8c0@Serene> Hey Nijit Isn't Kevan Worley your dad? I know of him cause he's in charge of the Imagination Fund at National Convention. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "gmail" To: Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > Greetings to all NABS members, > I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and > a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I > would introduce myself. > I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and > am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have > been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, > and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of > Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships > of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I > decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could > keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of > you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can > learn from all of you. Thank you very much. > All the best wishes to everyone. > At your service, > Nijat > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 02:34:58 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:34:58 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students Message-ID: Hello all, A while ago, I started a discussion on the list about skills that are important for high school students to master before transitioning into college, work, and adult life in general. Since then I have been asked to help write a page for the new NABS Web site describing these skill goals as well as resources for high school students to use to sharpen their skills and confidence in preparation for transitioning after graduation. Of course, we will provide information about the summer youth programs at each of the three NFB training centers. But for those high schoolers who can't get to a training center or who want additional support during the year, I need your input about other practical ways that these students can work on building their skills while still in school. A few more specific questions for you guys: 1. Did any of you receive Braille, travel, home management, etc. training from someone in your local area outside of your school district? If so, who was it and how did you find this teacher? 2. What are some suggestions for things students can do every day to reinforce their skills in Braille, computers, travel, and home management after initially learning them? (For example, a Braille tip would be to try to read Braille books for pleasure as much as possible). 3. What kinds of extracurricular activities, camps, etc. did you guys participate in that you feel contributed to your skill development? Please tell us about your experiences--I'm hoping to include as many ideas from the list as possible in this Web page. Thanks everyone for your contributions. You are helping to mentor and support the next generation of blind youth! Happy Thanksgiving! Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, National Association of Blind Students From iamantonio at cox.net Wed Nov 26 03:39:33 2008 From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:39:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--pleaseparticipate! References: , Message-ID: <9415BC441DB64657AE732965826403D3@homeb5fa> Hello, this is one of the strangest tests I've taken, or tried to take. The survey did not do it for me, and I quit right at the beginning. It seams using text to convey GPS points and directions is cumbersome, and uneffective. Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas, Kavita E" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--pleaseparticipate! > Hello, > We're developing a prototype system which takes numerical data found on > maps online (like census data) and communicates it as texts so that it's > accessible to the blind and VI community. > I'm running a final experiment now to find out which texts are most > preferred by blind and VI users so that we can implement these in our > system, and so I was hoping that you might participate if you're blind or > severely visually-impaired. The experiment takes on average half an hour > and it's online, so you can do it whenever is best for you, though it > needs to be done all in one sitting without taking breaks or pauses in the > middle. It's also quite repetitive, as you'll be listening to 10 texts and > answering questions about each of them, but your participation will really > make a difference and help us to produce texts which make the most sense > to blind and VI users in general. Please forward this on to anyone else > who you think might be > willing to participate. The website to go to to take the experiment is: > http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~tkavita/Experiments/RefFrame/ > Thanks very much, > Dr Kavita Thomas > the Atlas.txt project: www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/research/atlas > Department of Computing Science > University of Aberdeen > > > > > > The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No > SC013683. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1812 - Release Date: > 11/25/2008 7:53 PM > > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 06:13:10 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:13:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--pleaseparticipate! In-Reply-To: <9415BC441DB64657AE732965826403D3@homeb5fa> References: <9415BC441DB64657AE732965826403D3@homeb5fa> Message-ID: <20081126061310.GC4384@yumi.bluecherry.net> Antonio, they said the information was accessible. They made no claim that it made sense. *grin* Joseph On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:39:33PM -0500, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello, > > this is one of the strangest tests I've taken, or tried to take. The > survey did not do it for me, and I quit right at the beginning. > > It seams using text to convey GPS points and directions is cumbersome, > and uneffective. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas, Kavita E" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:14 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online > accessible--pleaseparticipate! > > >> Hello, >> We're developing a prototype system which takes numerical data found on >> maps online (like census data) and communicates it as texts so that >> it's accessible to the blind and VI community. >> I'm running a final experiment now to find out which texts are most >> preferred by blind and VI users so that we can implement these in our >> system, and so I was hoping that you might participate if you're blind >> or severely visually-impaired. The experiment takes on average half an >> hour and it's online, so you can do it whenever is best for you, though >> it needs to be done all in one sitting without taking breaks or pauses >> in the middle. It's also quite repetitive, as you'll be listening to 10 >> texts and answering questions about each of them, but your >> participation will really make a difference and help us to produce >> texts which make the most sense to blind and VI users in general. >> Please forward this on to anyone else who you think might be >> willing to participate. The website to go to to take the experiment is: >> http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~tkavita/Experiments/RefFrame/ >> Thanks very much, >> Dr Kavita Thomas >> the Atlas.txt project: www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/research/atlas >> Department of Computing Science >> University of Aberdeen >> >> >> >> >> >> The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No >> SC013683. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1812 - Release Date: >> 11/25/2008 7:53 PM >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Nov 26 06:36:28 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:36:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--please participate! In-Reply-To: <9415BC441DB64657AE732965826403D3@homeb5fa> References: , <9415BC441DB64657AE732965826403D3@homeb5fa> Message-ID: I tried it but didn't finish either. The descriptions are terrible. I like the idea - I think it's a good one but when I'm given clock directions (10 o'clock for example) and then told about the "farther regions" of the 10 o'clock area, I get confused. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--pleaseparticipate! Hello, this is one of the strangest tests I've taken, or tried to take. The survey did not do it for me, and I quit right at the beginning. It seams using text to convey GPS points and directions is cumbersome, and uneffective. Antonio Guimaraes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas, Kavita E" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: [nabs-l] experiment to make map info online accessible--pleaseparticipate! > Hello, > We're developing a prototype system which takes numerical data found on > maps online (like census data) and communicates it as texts so that it's > accessible to the blind and VI community. > I'm running a final experiment now to find out which texts are most > preferred by blind and VI users so that we can implement these in our > system, and so I was hoping that you might participate if you're blind or > severely visually-impaired. The experiment takes on average half an hour > and it's online, so you can do it whenever is best for you, though it > needs to be done all in one sitting without taking breaks or pauses in the > middle. It's also quite repetitive, as you'll be listening to 10 texts and > answering questions about each of them, but your participation will really > make a difference and help us to produce texts which make the most sense > to blind and VI users in general. Please forward this on to anyone else > who you think might be > willing to participate. The website to go to to take the experiment is: > http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~tkavita/Experiments/RefFrame/ > Thanks very much, > Dr Kavita Thomas > the Atlas.txt project: www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/research/atlas > Department of Computing Science > University of Aberdeen > > > > > > The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No > SC013683. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1812 - Release Date: > 11/25/2008 7:53 PM > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 11:41:34 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:41:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811260341jfa8be3axf966ff60c06c97a7@mail.gmail.com> Let me answer the questions one by one: 1. I received lots of Braille training when I was just a girl of about five years old, but didn't receive too much homemaking skills because I didn't get the chance or the teacher had a heavy caseload. The teacher worked within the school district. We tried getting an extended school year for me so I could get homemaking skills and all. I even tried the DAytona rehab center's homemaking classes, but they simply weren't enough. But part of it was my confidence level, which was very low. So after working now with the Lighthouse of the Big Bend in Tally, I think my confidence level is getting higher in that area, but I can't really reinforce it because I'm on a meal plan. 2. One thing I would highly recommend for students to reinforce their skills is to ask their parents if they can help in the kitchen. My friend Carlos says that sometimes parents won't let their blind children near the kitchen. My mom? She's cool with it. She'll have me snapping beans every Thanksgiving and she'll even let me boil eggs! 3. I participated in band and chorus, but I don't think it was enough to develop my social skills. One thing I would recommend is to really start learning those social skills at a young age, and there's something else that I'd recommend as well: girls, don't chase the guys. I had a huge problem with that, and still do. I've had TWO GUYS come up to me and complain about the way I act, and I think they're right, sadly. Beth P.S. Happy Thanksgiving. On 11/25/08, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hello all, > > A while ago, I started a discussion on the list about skills that are > important for high school students to master before transitioning into > college, work, and adult life in general. Since then I have been asked > to help write a page for the new NABS Web site describing these skill > goals as well as resources for high school students to use to sharpen > their skills and confidence in preparation for transitioning after > graduation. Of course, we will provide information about the summer > youth programs at each of the three NFB training centers. But for > those high schoolers who can't get to a training center or who want > additional support during the year, I need your input about other > practical ways that these students can work on building their skills > while still in school. A few more specific questions for you guys: > > 1. Did any of you receive Braille, travel, home management, etc. > training from someone in your local area outside of your school > district? If so, who was it and how did you find this teacher? > > 2. What are some suggestions for things students can do every day to > reinforce their skills in Braille, computers, travel, and home > management after initially learning them? (For example, a Braille tip > would be to try to read Braille books for pleasure as much as > possible). > > 3. What kinds of extracurricular activities, camps, etc. did you guys > participate in that you feel contributed to your skill development? > > Please tell us about your experiences--I'm hoping to include as many > ideas from the list as possible in this Web page. > > Thanks everyone for your contributions. You are helping to mentor and > support the next generation of blind youth! > > Happy Thanksgiving! > > Arielle Silverman > First Vice-President, National Association of Blind Students > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From awheeler at neb.rr.com Wed Nov 26 13:25:54 2008 From: awheeler at neb.rr.com (Alan Wheeler) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:25:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving for now. Message-ID: Hi everyone, As of late, my life has changed focus away from being a student. As a result, I have felt as though I haven't had as much to contribute to these lists as I once did. Therefore, I decided to unsubscribe until such time as I can participate fully in these lists again. Thank you for all of your friendship, and feel free to keep in touch with me. My contact info is below. Alan +-+-+- For he who has died has been freed from sin. Romans 6:7 ~~~ Alan D Wheeler awheeler at neb.rr.com IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com Skype: redwheel1 Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at www.theqonline.net From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 19:11:51 2008 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:11:51 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving for now. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4829D4C2-389F-4F6F-B183-165467DE3E91@gmail.com> Hi Alan, Sad to see you go -- but more importantly I want to put out there (and list moderators can correct me on this if I royally get it wrong) -- you don't have to contribute to be a member of the NABS list! Feel free to just be a quiet observer. If, however, you find that the topics aren't relevant to you anymore, then best of luck to you in your next endeavor! Corbb ----- Corbb O'Connor studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway On Nov 26, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Alan Wheeler wrote: awheeler at neb.rr.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Nov 26 20:44:48 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:44:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving for now. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Alan, Best of luck in your future endeavours. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Alan Wheeler Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:26 AM To: National list Cc: Nebraska-Students at Nfbnet. Org Subject: [nabs-l] Leaving for now. Hi everyone, As of late, my life has changed focus away from being a student. As a result, I have felt as though I haven't had as much to contribute to these lists as I once did. Therefore, I decided to unsubscribe until such time as I can participate fully in these lists again. Thank you for all of your friendship, and feel free to keep in touch with me. My contact info is below. Alan +-+-+- For he who has died has been freed from sin. Romans 6:7 ~~~ Alan D Wheeler awheeler at neb.rr.com IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com Skype: redwheel1 Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at www.theqonline.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 21:39:16 2008 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:39:16 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64C8E5DB1B4B4B3DAA429A6BA5EF34D3@sarahd0fffdcf6> Well I did not receive as much hep as I woud have liked but the camp I atended was Camp Bloomfield in Malaboo California. I just wish they would ave showed me how ot carry a tray as I'm learning this now. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:35 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students Hello all, A while ago, I started a discussion on the list about skills that are important for high school students to master before transitioning into college, work, and adult life in general. Since then I have been asked to help write a page for the new NABS Web site describing these skill goals as well as resources for high school students to use to sharpen their skills and confidence in preparation for transitioning after graduation. Of course, we will provide information about the summer youth programs at each of the three NFB training centers. But for those high schoolers who can't get to a training center or who want additional support during the year, I need your input about other practical ways that these students can work on building their skills while still in school. A few more specific questions for you guys: 1. Did any of you receive Braille, travel, home management, etc. training from someone in your local area outside of your school district? If so, who was it and how did you find this teacher? 2. What are some suggestions for things students can do every day to reinforce their skills in Braille, computers, travel, and home management after initially learning them? (For example, a Braille tip would be to try to read Braille books for pleasure as much as possible). 3. What kinds of extracurricular activities, camps, etc. did you guys participate in that you feel contributed to your skill development? Please tell us about your experiences--I'm hoping to include as many ideas from the list as possible in this Web page. Thanks everyone for your contributions. You are helping to mentor and support the next generation of blind youth! Happy Thanksgiving! Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, National Association of Blind Students _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From nijat1989 at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 21:58:53 2008 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:58:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings References: <00d201c94f64$7c374290$0201a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <0049B8E1607244FC9C70E292EBC44643@Nijatash> Hay, Kevan Worley is my dad. He does chair the Imagination fund. Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > Hey Nijit > > Isn't Kevan Worley your dad? I know of him cause he's in charge of the > Imagination Fund at National Convention. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gmail" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:22 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings > > >> Greetings to all NABS members, >> I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and >> a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I >> would introduce myself. >> I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and >> am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have >> been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, >> and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association >> of Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado >> scholarships of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB >> and NABS, I decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so >> that I could keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get >> to know all of you through this great resource in the near future, and I >> hope that I can learn from all of you. Thank you very much. >> All the best wishes to everyone. >> At your service, >> Nijat >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Thu Nov 27 01:06:24 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:06:24 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings Message-ID: <20081127010356.ETFK19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Welcome to the list!!!! Cheers Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "gmail" To: Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:22:46 -0700 >Subject: [nabs-l] Introductions and greetings >Greetings to all NABS members, > I am Nijat Worley a member of the National Federation of the Blind, and a dedicated member of NABS. I just joined the list today, and thought I would introduce myself. > I am currently a freshmen at the University of Colorado at Boulder and am double majoring in Political Science and International Affairs. I have been a member of the National Federation of the Blind for five years now, and currently I serve as the vice president of the Colorado Association of Blind Students. Just recently I won a national and Colorado scholarships of the NFB. As a College student, and as a member of the NFB and NABS, I decided that it would be a good idea to join this list, so that I could keep in touch with all my fellow students. I hope I can get to know all of you through this great resource in the near future, and I hope that I can learn from all of you. Thank you very much. > All the best wishes to everyone. > At your service, > Nijat >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From melissa at riccobono.us Thu Nov 27 01:39:41 2008 From: melissa at riccobono.us (Melissa Ann Riccobono) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:39:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Win a Wii Video Game System Message-ID: Hello everyone, The National Federation of the Blind of Maryland is running a holiday raffle for a chance to win a Wii video game system, plus $300! Chances to win are only $10 a piece and there will only be 1,000 chances sold. The winning number will be drawn on Christmas Eve, or sooner if the 1,000 chances are sold out before that time. To purchase tickets, please visit http://www.nfbmd.org/Wii/WiiRules.html Be sure to get your name in the contest and advertise this with your friends and family. This is a great way to help the NFB of Maryland and provide a nice gift for someone in your family--or yourself Melissa Riccobono, President, National Federation of the Blind of Maryland From cfoster at nfbco.org Thu Nov 27 01:40:24 2008 From: cfoster at nfbco.org (Chris Foster) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:40:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Last chance to join the NFB of Colorado on the high seas to Mexico Message-ID: Subject: Last chance to join the NFB of Colorado on the high seas to Mexico Hello Fellow Federationests, We want you to know that this is your last chance to reserve your cabin on Carnival's Pride to Sail away to sunny Mexico with NFB members from Colorado and across the country. Our cruise sets sail on March 1 from Long Beach, California and returns on March 8, 2009. We will cruise through the Mexican Riviera with stops in Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, and Cabo San Lucas. If you are interested, we would love to have you with us. Please contact Anahit LaBarre immediately at alabarre at labarretravel.com or 720-334-3652 for more information. Cabins are limited and prices range from $704 for an inside cabin to $1524 for a junior suite. Those prices include all the fees, taxes and gratuities. This is the last week that Anahit can hold these cabins for us so call her right away if you have any interest. By the way, you may remember that the NFB of Colorado raffled off a free cruise to one lucky winner. Well, as it happens, our lucky winner was James Gashel. Go for it Mr... Gashel! have a great time and enjoy working on your tan. James Gashel will certainly enjoy escaping winter for a week, far away from the cold and snow. Why shouldn't you? Chris Foster National Federation of the Blind of Colorado Director of Community Relations Phone: 303-635-6583 Email: cfoster at nfbco.org Web Site: www.nfbco.org From christellablue at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 01:41:11 2008 From: christellablue at gmail.com (Christella Garcia) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:41:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] sports extravaganza for 2009 NFB Convention Message-ID: It's that time of year again when I need your help to plan the Sports extravaganza for the NFB convention which will be held in Detroit Michigan. Last years event was wildly successful. The Sports and Recreation division would like to make this years event just as terrific. This is where you come in. If you would like to help plan next years event, or if you know of someone who would like to be involved pleas email me at christellablue at gmail.com Some of the activities from last year were: roller skating, goalball, judo, tandem biking, swimming, spinning, and rowing. I would like to try to continue these events and add even more. I also want to get everyone from youth to seniors involved. So, if you want to help in any way please get in touch with me. Thanks in advance. Christella From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 03:48:25 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:48:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Best Sites for Students Message-ID: <7C8CF7C340BA40D9A52B65A6AF76951D@MonkeyPaw> Hello all, As we move into Thanksgiving, we're looking for the top web sites you, as students, are grateful to for the resources they have afforded to you in your education. We're looking for web sites on financial aid, applying to college, scholarship databases, social networking, textbook discounts, anything and everything you feel is a prime resource for you as a student. Yes, we're already aware of PickAProf.com. We're looking for something a little more substantive than a convenient way to rate the dismal robot you had for biology. Your suggestions will be incorporated into the NABS web site for all to take advantage. Be well, send us your suggestions and enjoy your Thanksgiving holiday. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 03:54:00 2008 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:54:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: BlindBargains.com Daily Deals for Tuesday, November 25 Message-ID: <01E10D3B438746FDA62E7D1BE73B4F20@MonkeyPaw> For anyone who has failed to get their own subscription to BlindBargains, here's a sample of what you're missing. Trust me, it's a daily e-mail worth receiving, and with the holidays around the corner, it's a resource that beats the hell out of scanning the Internet for excellent deals. Subject: BlindBargains.com Daily Deals for Tuesday, November 25 BlindBargains.com Daily Deals for Tuesday, November 25 It's time to recap the latest deals and news posted to Blind Bargains. Feel free to forward this message to your friends. Got a suggestion, comment, or bargain request? Email bargains at blindbargains.com. In this issue: 1. 100 Verbatim 52X CD-R Blank Media for $13.99 Shipped 2. Free Shipping on $75 or More at Independent Living Aids 3. SOYO AZURA SERIES 22-inch LCD HDTV for $269.99 Shipped 4. Win Tech Stuff from Kim Komando's Holiday Giveaway 5. Amazon Black Friday Begins 6. Save 25 Percent off Already Cheap Clothes at Classic Closeouts 7. One Day Only: Creative Labs Free Shipping on Everything 8. Working Pac Mate QX400 PDA/notetaker at $160 with Free Shipping on EBay 9. 7-128 Offers Educational Accessible Games for Young Children 10. Harvil Tabletop Air Hockey Table for $44 11. Asus EEE PC with 1.6GHz Processor and Windows XP for $319.99 Shipped 12. PLANTRONICS Explorer Ruggedized Bluetooth Headset for $19.99 Shipped 13. Free Pans, Spatulas, More from Easy Bakeware 14. Fantom 500GB External Hard Drive for $59.99 Shipped after Rebate 15. Kingston 16GB USB Flash Drive for $25.52 Shipped 16. Nokia N80 with Talks and Zooms for $319.95 or Best Offer Shipped on EBay 17. Sex and the City the Complete Series for $99.99 Shipped 18. Brother Laser Printer with Wireless and Wired Network Interfaces for $99.99 Shipped 19. Philips 10-Outlet Surge Protector with Power Blocker 2 Technology for $19.99 Shipped 20. Most Popular Recent Deals ** Item 1 100 Verbatim 52X CD-R Blank Media for $13.99 Shipped Newegg.com has a 100 pack of Verbatim 52X CD-R media for $13.99. With free shipping, that's just under 14 cents per disk and one of the best blank media deals we've seen without rebates. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3734 ** Item 2 Free Shipping on $75 or More at Independent Living Aids Independent Living Aids offers free shipping and handling for online purchases of $75 or more. No coupon code is required. It's one of the few such deals we've seen from this site, though free shipping off $50 offers have been posted in the past. The site sells primarily blindness and low-vision products in a variety of categories. No end date is given for this offer. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3733 ** Item 3 SOYO AZURA SERIES 22-inch LCD HDTV for $269.99 Shipped It's not often we post televisions in this space, but with the pending conversion to digital in broadcasts in the United States, many people may wish to update their old sets. For a reader, Buy.com has the SOYO AZURA SERIES 22-inch LCD HDTV for $269.99. Plus, shipping is free. A remote and audio/video cables are included. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3732 ** Item 4 Win Tech Stuff from Kim Komando's Holiday Giveaway Kim Komando offers a wide variety of prizes in its annual holiday giveaway. Enter online to win prizes ranging from notebook computers to airline tickets. Or, check the official rules page to learn how to win a prize by calling into the live radio show each Saturday. Sweepstakes ends December 22. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3731 ** Item 5 Amazon Black Friday Begins Amazon.com has posted their Black Friday sales page, with lots of bargains to digest in just about every category. In addition, more sales will be posted on Friday as well as hourly specials. Here's the link to the main page. We'll begin to disect this page and post specific deals as we find them. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3730 ** Item 6 Save 25 Percent off Already Cheap Clothes at Classic Closeouts ClassicCloseouts.com takes 25 percent off their selection of apparel during their Black Monday sale. Use coupon CJBM to get the discount. Plus, orders of $50 or more ship free. That's the best discount we've seen from this merchant, which already has some insanely low prices on men's, women's, and children's clothing. Deal ends December 2. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3696 ** Item 7 One Day Only: Creative Labs Free Shipping on Everything Today only, Creative Labs offers free shipping sitewide with no minimum using the link on this post. Usually, a $99 minimum order is required.. For instance, get the highly-accessible Zen Stone 1GB MP3 Player for $19.99, shipped free. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3720 ** Item 8 Working Pac Mate QX400 PDA/notetaker at $160 with Free Shipping on EBay As an update, an EBay seller and Blind Bargains reader has posted a working Pac Mate QX400 personal digital assistant with a current bid of $160. Plus, shipping is free. This unit includes a QWERTY keyboard and is running the latest version of software available for this edition, version 4.1. It is also upgradable to a Pac Mate Omni for $695. Two 2GB memory cards are also included. Auction ends November 25. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3729 ** Item 9 7-128 Offers Educational Accessible Games for Young Children 7-128 Software has entered a vastly underserved market, educational game and learning titles for young blind and visually impaired children. Preschoolers can learn about letters and numbers while those a bit older can practice spelling, addition, or subtraction. The Baby Bear edition includes three games for $15, while the Mama Bear package offers four games for $20. All are fully accessible. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3728 ** Item 10 Harvil Tabletop Air Hockey Table for $44 Walmart.com has the Harvil Tabletop Air Hockey Table for $44. Shipping is free to your local Wal-mart store, or have it shipped to your home. This is a miniature version of air hockey which uses an approximately 39-inch playing surface. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3727 ** Item 11 Asus EEE PC with 1.6GHz Processor and Windows XP for $319.99 Shipped Buy.com has the Asus EEE PC with 1.6GHz Processor and Windows XP for $319.99. Plus, shipping is free, making it one of the cheapest netbooks with Windows XP installed. This 8.9-inch Netbook features an Intel Atom N270 1.6GHz processor, 1GB memory, 160GB hard drive, Intel UMA Graphics, 802.11 b/g wireless, built-in webcam, and Windows XP Home. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3726 ** Item 12 PLANTRONICS Explorer Ruggedized Bluetooth Headset for $19.99 Shipped Newegg.com has the PLANTRONICS Explorer 370 Ruggedized Bluetooth Headset for $19.99. With free shipping, that's the lowest price we could find. This headset is water and dust resistant, includes up to 7 hours of talk time, and uses a rechargeable lithium ion Battery. Deal ends November 26. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3725 ** Item 13 Free Pans, Spatulas, More from Easy Bakeware Easy Bakeware offers several free items as a part of its free item of the month promotion. To find them, follow the link on this post and select the freebies link. Shipping starts at only $1. We chose the burnless loaf pan, normally $13.95, at a total cost of $1 with shipping. There appears to be no further catch that we can find. New items are posted each month, and there's a limit of one free item per person. Update: Watch your Email, as you may be signed up for the At Home Rewards program, which you'll want to cancel during the free trial offer. Canceling should be easy and painless. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3724 ** Item 14 Fantom 500GB External Hard Drive for $59.99 Shipped after Rebate Onsale.com has the Fantom Drives 500GB External Hard Drive for $99.99. After a mail-in rebate, the price falls to $59.99, or just under 12 cents per gigabyte. It includes both USB 2.0 and eSATA interfaces. Rebate ends December 31. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3723 ** Item 15 Kingston 16GB USB Flash Drive for $25.52 Shipped Buy.com has a Kingston 16GB flash drive for the odd price of $25.52, over $3 off our last mention. Plus, shipping is free on this portable storage solution. The USB connector retracts into the drive, preventing it from breaking off while not in use. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3722 ** Item 16 Nokia N80 with Talks and Zooms for $319.95 or Best Offer Shipped on EBay An EBay seller and Blind Bargains reader has listed an unlocked Nokia N80 cell phone with a copy of both Talks and Zooms for a BuyItNow price of $319.95. Or, you can make an offer. With free shipping, this is only slightly more than the cost of Talks alone. Talks provides speech output for mobile phones while Zooms provides magnification. The phone comes with lots of accessories and is unlocked, meaning it'll work with any compatible carrier, including AT&T and T-Mobile in the United States. Listing ends December 24, if not sold sooner. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3719 ** Item 17 Sex and the City the Complete Series for $99.99 Shipped Amazon.com has the complete series box set for Sex and the City for $99.99. That's $200 off and the lowest price we could find. It includes every episode from this popular HBO show. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3718 ** Item 18 Brother Laser Printer with Wireless and Wired Network Interfaces for $99.99 Shipped Amazon.com has the Brother HL-2170w Laser Printer with both Wireless and Wired Network Interfaces for $99.99. With free shipping, that's $200 off list and the lowest price we could find. This monochrome laser printer performs at up to 23 pages per minute. With a network interface, you can hook it directly up to your router, avoiding the need to keep one computer turned on to access your printer. Or, because of the wireless connectivity option, place the printer anywhere within range of a wireless network. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3717 ** Item 19 Philips 10-Outlet Surge Protector with Power Blocker 2 Technology for $19.99 Shipped Buy.com has the Philips 10-Outlet Surge Protector with Power Blocker 2 Technology for $19.99. Plus, shipping is free. The Power Blocker technology will work to immediately cut and reset power in case of a surge. $1 million in damage protection is also included. http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3716 ** Item 20 Most Popular Recent Deals Here are the top five posts to Blind Bargains as of the time of this newsletter. Beat the Crowds with BlindBargains.com Black Friday and Cyber Monday Coverage http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3709 Free Pans, Spatulas, More from Easy Bakeware http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3724 Sansonic Digital TV Converter Box with Remote for Free with $40 NTIA Converter Box Coupon http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3708 Working Pac Mate QX400 PDA/notetaker at $100 with Free Shipping on EBay http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3678 One Day Only: Creative Labs Free Shipping on Everything http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=3720 If you received this message from someone else and want to subscribe yourself, visit http://www.blindbargains.com/emaillist.php We respect your privacy. To unsubscribe, use the link below. or Email dailydeals-unsubscribe at blindbargains.com Send by Blind Bargains, 3304 W. Main St., Apt #104, Kalamazoo, MI 49006. 206-792-9663. _______________________________________________ DailyDeals mailing list DailyDeals at blindbargains.com http://blindbargains.com/mailman/listinfo/dailydeals_blindbargains.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Nov 27 05:40:56 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:40:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Best Sites for Students In-Reply-To: <7C8CF7C340BA40D9A52B65A6AF76951D@MonkeyPaw> References: <7C8CF7C340BA40D9A52B65A6AF76951D@MonkeyPaw> Message-ID: Hi all, I think this is an American affiliate of a Canadian scholarship database. It's pretty comprehensive. I hope this will be of help to you. I am certainly grateful to the Canadian version. http://www.studentawards.com/english/us/default.asp Happy Thanksgiving to all, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:48 PM To: Arizona Students; 'California Students'; Colorado Center; 'Colorado Students'; Florida Students; 'Illinois Students'; 'Kansas Students'; Kentucky Students; Louisiana Students; Michigan; Minnesota Students; Missouri; National; Nebraska; New Hampshire Students; New Jersey Students; 'North Carolina Students'; Ohio; Pennsylvania; Presidents; TABS Students; Tennessee Students; 'Utah Students'; Virginia Students Subject: [nabs-l] Best Sites for Students Hello all, As we move into Thanksgiving, we're looking for the top web sites you, as students, are grateful to for the resources they have afforded to you in your education. We're looking for web sites on financial aid, applying to college, scholarship databases, social networking, textbook discounts, anything and everything you feel is a prime resource for you as a student. Yes, we're already aware of PickAProf.com. We're looking for something a little more substantive than a convenient way to rate the dismal robot you had for biology. Your suggestions will be incorporated into the NABS web site for all to take advantage. Be well, send us your suggestions and enjoy your Thanksgiving holiday. Joe Orozco "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M. Barrie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From noreply at serotek.com Thu Nov 27 17:19:37 2008 From: noreply at serotek.com (Serotek Announcements) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:19:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Serotek releases System Access 3.0 Message-ID: Serotek releases System Access 3.0 Serotek Corporation continues to raise the bar in the assistive technology industry with its latest software release of System Access 3.0. In this release, there is a great deal to be excited about both for new and existing customers. The update to version 3.0 will happen seamlessly for existing customers with no need for user intervention. And for new customers, it is not necessary to find and download an installation package. Users can simply log in to http://www.satogo.com or visit www.serotek.com and initiate the automated installation process. In this way, users can begin a trial or create a paid account without any complexity. Serotek is proud to release the first full-featured screen access product with support for 64-bit operating systems. This support is not only an essential breakthrough for IT professionals working in 64-bit environments in the course of their employment, but for the average consumer as well. Blind individuals can now walk in to any of the increasing number of retail stores who stock their shelves exclusively with machines running 64-bit operating systems, and purchase a new computer without wondering whether or not the machine will be accessible when they take it out of the box. From the smallest Netbook to the most powerful server, System Access delivers fast, reliable, and easy to use accessibility. Remote Training and Support is now better than ever. System Access users have long had the ability to remotely access other users' computers for the purposes of support, training, or just for fun. Now System Access has added a voice over IP feature which allows for crisp and clear voice chat between connected users, eliminating the need to communicate by phone or through third-party VOIP software such as Skype. Accessibility Anywhere is right at your fingertips with support for the Alva BC640 Braille display. With this light, portable, and fully plug and play Braille display, users can have full access to Braille in all their favorite applications both at home and on the go. But screen access to computers isn't just for work anymore. It's also for fun, and for those living the accessible digital lifestyle, System Access brings you the most compelling support for iTunes 8 available on the market. And since everyone enjoys playing games, the Serotek team and the team at All In Play have collaborated to bring you a game-playing experience you'll want to return to again and again. All In Play features four games that are appealing to blind and sighted individuals alike, and with all plans being less than $8 per month, the fun is accessible and affordable for all. Combine System Access support for Anagram Tag, Texas Hold`em, Crazy Eights and the classic game of poker with the crisp clarity of the System Access Mobile network chat system and you'll have accessibility and entertainment wherever you go. And whether you're at home or on the go, you'll always want the ability to keep in touch with friends and family. In addition to Serotek's built-in client supporting MSN Messenger and AOL Instant Messenger, subscribers to the SA Mobile Network can now easily communicate with each other through text or voice. Users can add their SAMNet friends to a list of SA Mobile Network contacts, and have the ability to initiate a text or voice conversation with those friends. These are just a few of the many exciting features available in the release of System Access version 3.0. If you'd like to see a more comprehensive list of features, you can read "what's new in System Access 3.0". ---------- From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Thu Nov 27 17:51:54 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:51:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] sports extravaganza for 2009 NFB Convention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christella, Happy Thanksgiving!> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:41:11 -0600> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org> From: christellablue at gmail.com> Subject: [nabs-l] sports extravaganza for 2009 NFB Convention> > It's that time of year again when I need your help to plan the > Sports extravaganza for the NFB convention which will be held in > Detroit Michigan. Last years event was wildly successful. The > Sports and Recreation division would like to make this years event > just as terrific. This is where you come in. If you would like to > help plan next years event, or if you know of someone who would like > to be involved pleas email me at > christellablue at gmail.com> Some of the activities from last year were: roller skating, > goalball, judo, tandem biking, swimming, spinning, and rowing. I > would like to try to continue these events and add even more. I also > want to get everyone from youth to seniors involved. So, if you want > to help in any way please get in touch with me. Thanks in advance.> > Christella> > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the “I’m a PC” Messenger themepack now. hthttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642558/direct/01/ From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Nov 28 02:32:08 2008 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:32:08 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students Message-ID: <30247986.1227839528970.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi Arielle, Excellent question. With the demands and pressure in high school its easy to forget some of these skills. I had pretty decent services. I learned Braille when I was young and had mobility training since second grade. However in high school although I took notes in Braille, I did not read much since I had rfb books. Also I did not have the opportunity to practice my cane skills outside lessons for a variety of reasons such as it being faster to go sighted guide and lack of public transit near my home. I have deficits still and if I do knowing I got good services, I shutter to think what other students grew up with. Often we just don’t get practice because parents don’t show us how to do things and/or expect it. Here are my answers and suggestions. 1. Did any of you receive Braille, travel, home management, etc. training from someone in your local area outside of your school district? If so, who was it and how did you find this teacher? Yes. When I was thirteen someone from the department for the Blind and vision Impaired, a rehab teacher, they’re called, came to my home occasionally and showed me basic things about cooking and cleaning. I also received travel training from the department from an instructor between high school and college and she oriented me to campus when I began. Additionally, I received some computer training with jaws from people who contracted with the department. Someone in the nfb chapter also taught me a few things about computers and travel. 2. What are some suggestions for things students can do every day to reinforce their skills in Braille, computers, travel, and home management after initially learning them? (For example, a Braille tip would be to try to read Braille books for pleasure as much as possible). For Braille and computers they should be practicing these to complete papers and read assignments. But if not other ideas are: finding ways to use them. This includes labeling CDS and other items in Braille and reading for pleasure. Type letters to relatives or pen pals. Try finding a Braille pen pal too; these days its hard with email though. For travel, use your cane even when walking sighted guide with family. I always walked with parents wich did not allow me to develop the confidence to independently travel. So, if possible, students should walk around and shop on their own. For instance while your parents shop at Macy’s you go to the music store and buy something with customer service assistance. For home management, practice doing things around the home. Also, for cooking prepare some of the meal such as the salad or vegetable dish. 3. What kinds of extracurricular activities, camps, etc. did you guys participate in that you feel contributed to your skill development? I went to a Baptist camp two summers even though I’m not Baptist. You just had to be Christian. I was able to socialize there more equally; this was with all nondisabled campers but they seemed friendly. I also joined clubs in high school and this helped with socialization. I volunteered with my church members serving food at a shelter. I think its important to get out and do things with peers or community members to be well rounded and practice interpersonal skills and educating others about how to treat a blind person. The more you are just with family and teachers, the more sheltered you are. I considered myself pretty sheltered but I get the feeling that some blind kids I contacted are just as sheltered if not more. Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Nov 25, 2008 9:34 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Skill Training and Reinforcement for High School Students > >Hello all, > >A while ago, I started a discussion on the list about skills that are >important for high school students to master before transitioning into >college, work, and adult life in general. Since then I have been asked >to help write a page for the new NABS Web site describing these skill >goals as well as resources for high school students to use to sharpen >their skills and confidence in preparation for transitioning after >graduation. Of course, we will provide information about the summer >youth programs at each of the three NFB training centers. But for >those high schoolers who can't get to a training center or who want >additional support during the year, I need your input about other >practical ways that these students can work on building their skills >while still in school. A few more specific questions for you guys: > >1. Did any of you receive Braille, travel, home management, etc. >training from someone in your local area outside of your school >district? If so, who was it and how did you find this teacher? > >2. What are some suggestions for things students can do every day to >reinforce their skills in Braille, computers, travel, and home >management after initially learning them? (For example, a Braille tip >would be to try to read Braille books for pleasure as much as >possible). > >3. What kinds of extracurricular activities, camps, etc. did you guys >participate in that you feel contributed to your skill development? > >Please tell us about your experiences--I'm hoping to include as many >ideas from the list as possible in this Web page. > >Thanks everyone for your contributions. You are helping to mentor and >support the next generation of blind youth! > >Happy Thanksgiving! > >Arielle Silverman >First Vice-President, National Association of Blind Students > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net Merry Christmas and Happy New Year From jj at bestmidi.com Fri Nov 28 07:36:49 2008 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:36:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A T Guys Black Friday through Cyber Monday Deals Message-ID: A T Guys, LLC, a premier licensed Code Factory distributor, is offering huge savings this weekend only. Purchase the brand new Mobile Geo GPS software package for $777, a savings of nearly $120 off retail. Or, if you have a Symbian-based phone like the Nokia N82, purchase Wayfinder Access GPS navigation for only $349. We're also offering specials on the Mobile Daisy Player, now for only $109. For a complete list of current specials and to learn about our available products, please visit http://www.atguys.com Our Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals end December 1. Please call 989-284-7915 or visit our website if you have questions. Have a great weekend. J.J. From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 28 18:40:57 2008 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:40:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Black Friday Sale Message-ID: <004b01c95188$dbe0e180$80f110ac@david6a79a76fb> Hello all, Black Friday is upon us and while many of us will be standing in line at 2:00 A.M. waiting to be among the first to take advantage of the door buster special, your friends at Handy Tech have some great bargains for you that don't involve sleep deprivation or standing in the freezing cold. For one day only, Friday, November 28, between the hours of 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM US central time, take advantage of the following Black Friday specials: 1. Nokia N82 Cell Phone, and choice of Talks or Mobile Speak Regularly $799.00 Black Friday special $599.00 The only phone on which the K-NFB reader is currently supported, this deal sets the stage for those of you who may be considering this innovative option for accessing print materials in the future. However for those of you who simply want an incredible accessible phone that will allow you to access caller ID, call logs, calendar appointments, contacts, text messaging and the web just to name a few empowering features, this deal cannot be beat. 2. By any Handy Tech Braille display and get an MSI Wind subnet book computer for free Combine one of the worlds most reliable and erganomic refreshible Braille displays with a little computer that packs a huge punch. The MSI Wind takes the lead in the sub net book craze with it's 10 inch screen, 1.6 gb processer, 1 gb of RAM, 160 gb hard drive running Windows XP home and it could be yours absalutely free with the purchase of any Handy Tech Braille display. Read about the full line of Handy Tech Braille displays at: http://www.handytech.us/ht.html 3. Purchase Window-Eyes with a Software Maintenance Agreement (SMA) and Handy Tech North America will split the cost of the SMA with you! The latest version of the world's most stable screen reader Window-Eyes 7.01 has been released and Handy Tech North America wants to help ease the pain in your pocket book buy paying half the cost of the SMA which entitles you to the next 3 major upgrades for free! Unfortunately, these specials are for US customers only. For more information, call 651-636-5184 Or send e-mail to: sales at handytech.us Special pricing only availible November 28, 2008, may not be combined with other promotional pricing is not retroactive to past purchases and all sales are final. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com Mobile: (832)518-0707 Webpage: http://www.knfbreader.com From thisischris89 at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 19:22:43 2008 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:22:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction Message-ID: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> Hi all, I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the sake of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third semester at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in the process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements of my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an attorney. As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was a rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid in reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in increasing marketability in the workforce. This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the extent of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have I started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to offer in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though networking on a local level would be ideal. Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly written college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. From queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 22:17:36 2008 From: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com (Marsha) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:17:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction In-Reply-To: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> References: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> Message-ID: <1FCE87BC52A548AABC1913292F692898@Cptr233> Chris, Glad you joined the list. I am in Baltimore, not a student anymore, or rather not at the present time. I do need to go back to school to finish my degree. But I am looking for work now. I know there has to be other New York people on here. Good luck in your adventures. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Kchao Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] introduction Hi all, I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the sake of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third semester at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in the process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements of my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an attorney. As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was a rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid in reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in increasing marketability in the workforce. This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the extent of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have I started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to offer in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though networking on a local level would be ideal. Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly written college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/queen.marsha.lindsey %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3650 (20081128) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3650 (20081128) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Nov 28 22:31:03 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:31:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction Message-ID: <20081128222823.OPJH19731.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Welcome to the list... I'm Hannah and I'm in high school. I live in northern Californi. Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Kchao" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:22:43 -0500 >Subject: [nabs-l] introduction >Hi all, >I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the sake of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third semester at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in the process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements of my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an attorney. >As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was a rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid in reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in increasing marketability in the workforce. >This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the extent of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have I started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to offer in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though networking on a local level would be ideal. >Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly written college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) >Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From golfereric at verizon.net Fri Nov 28 23:09:29 2008 From: golfereric at verizon.net (golfereric at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:09:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math Message-ID: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Hi Everybody For the spring semester I will be taking Applied Finite Math. I was wondering if anybody knew of any computer programs that could assist me with this class? Any and all suggestions are welcome Thanks, Eric Gaudes From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 00:24:35 2008 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:24:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction References: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> <1FCE87BC52A548AABC1913292F692898@Cptr233> Message-ID: <002301c951b8$dc320df0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Hi Chris. Welcome to the land of nabs. I am attending the massage program at my local community college in New Jersey. I have learned a lot from the list and I look forward to reading more posts from you. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introduction > Chris, > Glad you joined the list. I am in Baltimore, not a student anymore, or > rather not at the present time. I do need to go back to school to finish > my > degree. But I am looking for work now. I know there has to be other New > York > people on here. Good luck in your adventures. > Marsha > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Christopher Kchao > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] introduction > > Hi all, > I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the > sake > of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third > semester > at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in > the > process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements > of > my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal > of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something > extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also > continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an > attorney. > As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was > a > rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. > Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New > York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too > inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I > consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home > for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB > training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid > in > reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel > that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in > increasing marketability in the workforce. > This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the > extent > of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a > designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have > I > started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, > especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise > unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to > offer > in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though > networking on a local level would be ideal. > Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly > written > college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) > Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a > lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/queen.marsha.lindsey > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3650 (20081128) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3650 (20081128) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 01:31:08 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:31:08 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math In-Reply-To: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Eric, Just FYI if you want more specific info than you get on this list, there is another listserv on NFBNet just for blind math students, mathematicians, etc. The people on that list may be more knowledgeable about your specific computing needs. The list is called BlindMath and can be accessed through www.nfbnet.org Cheers Arielle On 11/29/08, golfereric at verizon.net wrote: > Hi Everybody > > For the spring semester I will be taking Applied Finite Math. I was > wondering if anybody knew of any computer programs that could assist me > with this class? > > Any and all suggestions are welcome > > Thanks, > Eric Gaudes > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 01:48:47 2008 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:48:47 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction In-Reply-To: <002301c951b8$dc320df0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> <1FCE87BC52A548AABC1913292F692898@Cptr233> <002301c951b8$dc320df0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Welcome to the list! We're very glad that you have joined us and are interested in networking with other blind students locally and nationally! My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a first-year Ph.D. student at the University of Colorado-Boulder studying social psychology. I am totally blind (except for some light perception) and just recently graduated from the adult training program at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. It was a wonderful experience and I'd be glad to share more details about it either on or off list! I first joined the NABS list when I was a high school freshman almost nine years ago and I will say that it is an excellent resource. I trust that you will both give and receive a lot of useful information as you become more active on the list. I would also encourage you to explore your local NFB chapter and affiliate if you haven't already done so. I have been participating in the NFB's national and local activities since 2003 and now serve as the first vice-president of NABS. I am not sure which chapter you live closest to in New York but I do know some great young people in NY as well as the NFB of NY state president, Karl Jacobson. Again, if you have any questions about the structure or activities of the NFB feel free to ask on-list or write me privately at arielle71 at gmail.com Wishing everyone a great post-Thanksgiving weekend! Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, National Association of Blind Students On 11/29/08, Rania wrote: > Hi Chris. Welcome to the land of nabs. I am attending the massage program at > my local community college in New Jersey. I have learned a lot from the list > and I look forward to reading more posts from you. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:17 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introduction > > >> Chris, >> Glad you joined the list. I am in Baltimore, not a student anymore, or >> rather not at the present time. I do need to go back to school to finish >> my >> degree. But I am looking for work now. I know there has to be other New >> York >> people on here. Good luck in your adventures. >> Marsha >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Christopher Kchao >> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:23 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] introduction >> >> Hi all, >> I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the >> sake >> of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third >> semester >> at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in >> the >> process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements >> of >> my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal >> of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something >> extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also >> continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an >> attorney. >> As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was >> >> a >> rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. >> Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New >> York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too >> inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I >> consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home >> for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB >> training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid >> in >> reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel >> that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in >> increasing marketability in the workforce. >> This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the >> extent >> of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a >> designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have >> I >> started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, >> especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise >> unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to >> offer >> in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though >> networking on a local level would be ideal. >> Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly >> written >> college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) >> Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a >> lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/queen.marsha.lindsey >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3650 (20081128) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3650 (20081128) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 03:53:24 2008 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:53:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #139- Is There Redemption for a BlindChicken References: <0D5E193AC78B4744835F72CA4634C23F@D78R0TG1> Message-ID: Umm... Stop birding out! Get the darn cane! Being a lifelong total blindy, I have nowhere to talk as per the whole sight loss thing, but in my life I would not be caught dead in a grocery store without that flippen cane. It's my everything. It's my dog that doesn't pee or poop. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Newman" To: "nfbnabs" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 20:25 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #139- Is There Redemption for a BlindChicken > NABS listers > RE: Is There Redemption for a Blind Chicken > > The new #139 THOUGHT PROVOKER is a page out of the adjustment history of > one > woman's struggle to cope with her blindness. See where she was at. By > sharing this incident, she hopes to help others to not get stuck where she > once was. > > If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect > responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn > from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info > If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS > sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at- newmanrl at cox.net > > > > THOUGHT PROVOKER 139 > Is There Redemption for a Blind Chicken > > Co-authors- > Virginia Sblendorio > Robert Leslie Newman > > "Want to go for a ride?" The voice on the phone was my older sister, who > had > recently moved within a few miles from me. "I have to run to the > supermarket > and pick up a couple of things." > > "Sure," I said, I didn't need anything from the store, but not able to > drive > any more, I relish any opportunity to go for a drive no matter how mundane > the trip. > > Hearing my sister's car pull into the driveway, I flipped on the light > switch for my porch light as I stepped out, fingers brushing the handle of > my white cane where it rested upright in the corner. It would be twilight > or > even dark by the time I got home. > > "Hey little Sis, where's your cane?" asked my older sister as I slipped > into > the front seat? "I saw you feeling with your feet for those steps." > > "Oh, just going to the store with you I don't need it." My answer was of > course to put her off. I wasn't going to share with her the extent to > which > I resented my cane. I rarely used it. It made me stand out in a crowd in a > way I did not care for. > > At the store's parking lot we found it to be nearly full and it was > necessary to park a long way from the entrance. On the way in we cut > through > rows of cars, which worked well for me, because it put my sister in my > best > visual range and easier to follow. However, nearing the doors there were > people going every direction, and I lost her in the crowd. But I made it > inside okay, but the inside lighting was so bright compared to the rapidly > dimming outdoors, I was essentially blinded. > > "Little Sis, if you had that cane, you wouldn't have to just stand there," > said my older sister. > > I clutched my older sister's arm as she snagged a shopping cart and > together > we went up and down the aisles in tandem. > > In the meat department, we found a manager's special on chickens. "Little > Sis, you love chicken. You should pick up a couple of these," urged my > older > sister and I agreed. I selected two packages, tore the coupons off, and > pressed their sticky sides to my forearm. Since my sight began to fail me, > I > have found many ways to "remember" what I cannot see. I have often > purchased > things with "redeem at register" coupons attached, only to realize after I > got home that they were not redeemed. Now I take them off and stick them > on > my forearm so I do not forget. > > We finished shopping and headed to the registers to pay. Realizing my > items > were to be first, I spoke up. "Those are the chicken's which were on > sale." > > "Ah, I don't see the." the cashier began. > > "Oh, here they are," I informed him, peeling the stickers off my arm. > Relishing the opportunity to educate, I politely told him that I was > visually impaired. I explained why I stuck the coupons to my arm. > > "Well ah...I'll have to call over a manager. Ah, company policy." > > When the store manager arrived, I again explained myself. > > "Interesting, but removing the coupons voids the discount," the manager > said > and his tone left no doubt he was not going to budge. > > I was speechless and angry and my thoughts ricocheted in my head like a > trapped bird. I thought about leaving the chicken and store immediately > but > with my fierce pride, I was not going to ask my sister to leave that store > to go to another after filling a cart with groceries. > > Perhaps I should have had my white cane with me. Perhaps I should have > laughed it off. Ultimately, I felt powerless. I felt like a coward. I felt > ashamed of being blind, ashamed of allowing my emotions to get the better > of > me and ashamed of being bullied. I paid for my order and went home with a > bellyache and a very angry sister. Stupid cane! > > > > Robert Leslie Newman > Email- newmanrl at cox.net > THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- > Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From startrekcafe at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 08:05:58 2008 From: startrekcafe at gmail.com (Marvin Hunkin) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:05:58 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] Toshiba Problems Message-ID: <90831A00179E44AC8E8312D4FCEF739F@marvinPC> Hi. spent most of today at a friends place with my a 300 satellite psa g4a notebook. and tried to figure out why the web cam driver is not working. we we suspected that the unknown device under imaging in windows vista home premium, might be a usb controller hard ware device. so,maybe the usb controller is malfunctioning, the web cam is not working either. and comes up with an error every time i start windows vista. webcam error, web cam driver. please start your camera or start windows, or some thing like that. so, any one experienced this problem, as the microphone is linked to the camera. tried a few things, but did not resolve it. either there is some conflict in the driver software or the usb controller is faulty. so the only thing left to do, and not really keen on doing that, is back up all my software to my friends external hard disk, and then use the recovery disk function of the laptop and reinstall the operating system, to see if that can be restored. or resolved. did try searching on google, and on toshiba forums, and lots of people posting and complaining of the same thing on their different models of their toshiba laptops, and toshiba knows about the problem, but has never fixed it. cannot contact toshiba australia, no e-mail or web form, only via phone, and not open on weekends. so if any one has run into this same problem, and can advice me how to fix this, before going down this long task of reinstalling the whole 250 gb software. and have backed up my critical data to a 2 gb flash drive. cheers Marvin. ps: if no one can help me out, then next weekend, will be reinstalling the whole operating system, with my sighted friend's help. From graduate56 at juno.com Sun Nov 30 07:20:31 2008 From: graduate56 at juno.com (melissa R. Green) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:20:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. In-Reply-To: <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <004301c952bc$21bfb170$653f1450$@com> Joseph. You make an excellent point about the field of special education. I couldn't agree with you more. So, how do we change this idea of people who are disabled becoming not just recipients of Special education, but providers as well? Even with creating our own special education programs for perspective special educators. The belief concerning people with disabilities becoming providers of special Ed is still a enormous barrier for us to overcome. Best regards, Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Special Ed. Harry, I've had lots of contact with special education teachers. Presently, the issue seems to be whether or not people with disabilities are to be recipients of special education, or whether they can be providers as well. Consequently, some of the people who ought to know better appear to be of the opinion that we cannot. It's all getting very messy and is causing me to consider a number of other pursuits that I believe would put me in a better position to address some of these issues on a broader scale. Joseph On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 06:53:07PM -0800, Henry Vasquez wrote: > Hello. t. Joseph Carter, This is Henry Vasquez. So, you are interested in becoming a teacher. that is a great Career choice. T. Joseph I think a while back that you might of mentioned that you would like to get in contact with some one who worked in that field especially in the Special Ed. Field If you ever want to speak to a person who is involved in that field feel free to E Mail me and I'll forwarded it to My Mother. Or you can phone her for some helpful advice. she has been working as a Special Ed Teacher for over twenty years for the Los Angeles Unified School District. and would be more then willing to share with you any helpful information. Take Care, Henry. E Mail henryfvasquez at gmail.com Cel. Phone 323-617-1007 >Henry Vasquez. >YOU CAN EASILY JUDGE A PERSONS TRUE CHARACTER BY HOW THEY TREAT THOSE WHO CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM OR FOR THEM. >Live life as if there is no tomorrow. >Laugh as if no one is listening. >Dance as if no one is watching. >Love as if you have never been hurt. >SMILE! It's the second best thing you could do with your LIPS! >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.11/1819 - Release Date: 11/29/2008 10:37 AM ____________________________________________________________ Click here to learn more about nursing jobs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2bVNgXC0v9RPV9Eis5shgnuJjpSNdntaHlfLr7WtBTUQizH/ From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 30 07:29:52 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:29:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups Message-ID: Hi All, I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we hadn't yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know if it's your turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines that converge so things can get confusing. I know the obvious thing would be to ask the people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? Thank you, Sarah From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 09:01:44 2008 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:01:44 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Special Ed. In-Reply-To: <004301c952bc$21bfb170$653f1450$@com> References: <7D45F235BB4843ED9C9BF38B07A496C7@BULLWINKLE> <20081118070627.GA57542@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004301c952bc$21bfb170$653f1450$@com> Message-ID: <20081130090144.GD27679@yumi.bluecherry.net> Melissa, I'm still working on that one. Ordinarily I would say that we do it by demonstrating that we are just as capable as anyone else by getting out there and delivering the same quality and results as our peers. Unfortunately, setting a good example only tends to educate those willing to learn and understand. I've got some of the other kind who don't want to understand, don't really care what I think I can do. I'm not really sure that I should discuss details on an archived mailing list. It's gotten nasty. Joseph On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:20:31AM -0700, melissa R. Green wrote: >Joseph. >You make an excellent point about the field of special education. >I couldn't agree with you more. >So, how do we change this idea of people who are disabled becoming not just >recipients of Special education, but providers as well? >Even with creating our own special education programs for perspective special >educators. The belief concerning people with disabilities becoming providers of >special Ed is still a enormous barrier for us to overcome. >Best regards, >Sincerely, >Melissa R. Green >Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you. From maria.kristic at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 09:52:35 2008 From: maria.kristic at gmail.com (Maria Kristic) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 04:52:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math In-Reply-To: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <0414CDCDC52845878BCB339C23D20475@maria> Is Applied Finite Math the same thing as Applied Discrete Math? I believe so, but just wanted to make absolutely sure. If so, you really shouldn't need any special software to show your work independently, IMHO, if this is what you're asking--just represent what you're doing in a textual notation when you type it out on your PC/notetaker, and hand in the electronic file/print it. For instance, use a caret (^) to indicate a superscript, an underscore (_) to indicate a subscript, and put whatever's superscripted or subscripted in braces ({}) to avoid ambiguity. Use parentheses to denote the numerators and denominators of fractions (for instance, (3)/(4) for three-fourths). Use symbols like "sqrt" for square root. Use the words for the Greek letters (i.e., pi, sigma, capitalize the P and S to indicate capitalized letters). Use braces ({}) to indicate sets, and words like "union", "intersection", etc. for set operations; you can also use the regular + (plus), - (minus), * (multiplication), / (divides), <, >, and = found on the keyboard, and combine them to form, for instance, >= or /= (meaning "not equal to". When constructing truth tables, use the vertical bar symbol (|) to separate columns, make sure they're aligned by using your screen reader's cursor position command, and literally use a carriage return to separate lines (i.e., hit ENTER to separate lines). Literally use words like "and", "or", "for all", and "there exists" in place of the graphical symbols for those logical operators, and for others where you can easily create the symbol from the keyboard, do so--for instance, ~ for "not", <--> (a double-pointing arrow) for the biconditional (i.e., "if and only if" or "iff"), etc. You can verbally describe logical circuit diagrams (for instance, "Two inputs, p and q, go in to an and gate. This output is the input for a not gate. The output of this not gate, combined with a third input line r, are both inputs to an or gate. The output is s."), and your prof can verbally describe them to you in a similar manner. Construct output tables for circuits in a similar manner to the method described for truth tables. Graphs can be described verbally (i.e., "Vertices v1, v2, v3, v4. Edge E1 connects V1 and V2, edge E2 is a curved edge which connects V1 and V3, edge E3 is a loop edge at V3."--actually, if you're discussing walkways, you might want to be a bit more descriptive about the layout of the vertices, or your prof might want to be when describing them to you, such as saying, for instance, "Vertices v1, v2, v3, and v4 are in a horizontal row from left to right." Or "There are three columns. The leftmost column contains V2, the middle one contains V1 and V3 from top to bottom, and the rightmost column contains V4." Or "There are two vertices. V1 is on the left, and v2 is on the right." Or "The vertices V1, V2, V3, and V4 are arranged clockwise roughly around the corners of a diamond shape.", and when describing the walkways, just list out the vertices and edges, separated by commas, in the order that they're involved; graphs can be alternately represented as matrices--if your book doesn't cover the alternate representation, and you wish to use it instead, you can ask the prof, and I'm sure that he/she would be cool with your using it--and to construct the matrix, use similar conventions to what was described for truth tables. For trees, describe them in a similar manner to that given for graphs, and just describe the layout of what is branching and where (i.e., "Vertex V1 is at the top. V1 branches to V3 to the left, to V2 straight down, and to V4 to the right. V4 branches up and to the right to V5. V3 branches down and to the left to V6. V2 branches up and to the left to V7."). That's all I can think of off the top of my head; I'm taking Discrete, not Applied Discrete, so I'm not sure whether I've broadly covered all the bases for your class, but hopefully I have, or I've hopefully at least gotten you in the right direction. I know that probably not a lot of the above makes sense at the moment, but it will as you go through the class. I also emphasized graphs and trees a lot because they're the most visual part of the class. If you're in a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) major, you might want to look in to learning LaTeX--I use it quite a lot, and I drew some of my above symbolic suggestions from LaTeX conventions. Let me know if you have any questions/if something doesn't make sense. Like I said, hope this helps, and this is just my $0.02, so if you want to, you can also post to Blindmath as Arielle suggested, and you might get some other suggestions (I'm on that list, and they're a helpful bunch). Good luck, and I hope that you enjoy the class! Regards, Maria Skype: MariaKristic AIM: MCKristic Email/MSN: maria6289 at earthlink.net Google Talk: Maria.Kristic at gmail.com Yahoo Messenger: mariakristic at yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of golfereric at verizon.net Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:09 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math Hi Everybody For the spring semester I will be taking Applied Finite Math. I was wondering if anybody knew of any computer programs that could assist me with this class? Any and all suggestions are welcome Thanks, Eric Gaudes From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 10:01:23 2008 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:01:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0811300201jc6cd170vfc19873bbbaa108b@mail.gmail.com> I listen closely and figre out where the line ends and so forth. Beth On 11/30/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Hi All, > I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we hadn't > yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know if it's your > turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines that converge > so things can get confusing. I know the obvious thing would be to ask the > people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar > settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? > Thank you, > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From maria.kristic at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 10:03:44 2008 From: maria.kristic at gmail.com (Maria Kristic) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:03:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction In-Reply-To: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> References: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> Message-ID: Hi Chris, It's Maria, from the Blind Students on Facebook group. I'm also from New York, and am completing my third semester at Western New England College in Springfield, MA--Computer Science major and Math minor. ^_^ I'm doing a few gen. ed. requirements myself this semester, but I'll be taking mostly classes required for my major in the spring, so I'm really happy about that. Totally blind as well; WNEC's about 2 and a half hours from my house, and its location is decent in terms of public transportation, unlike the area where I live in upstate New York which has close to no public transportation available, so I can relate to your situation. Glad you're finding the list helpful, and good luck with your studies and decision about your major/career path. Cheers, Maria Skype: MariaKristic AIM: MCKristic Email/MSN: maria6289 at earthlink.net Google Talk: Maria.Kristic at gmail.com Yahoo Messenger: mariakristic at yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Kchao Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] introduction Hi all, I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the sake of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third semester at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in the process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements of my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an attorney. As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was a rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid in reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in increasing marketability in the workforce. This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the extent of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have I started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to offer in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though networking on a local level would be ideal. Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly written college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sun Nov 30 14:11:05 2008 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:11:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups Message-ID: <20081130140843.XYOD18207.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote> Hi Sarah. I have myguide dog to show me the en't want to be in front) grin but whz far as moving up in the line, I listen to the person front of me, who usually is talkative- they are always wanting to know about the dog. I listen closely to what that person is doing and once I think he or she is finished, I'll ask the person behind the counter if I'm oext- just to be sure. I'm usually realshy, but won't hesitate to ask for help if I feel I need it. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:01:23 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups >I listen closely and figre out where the line ends and so forth. >Beth >On 11/30/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: >> Hi All, >> I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we hadn't >> yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know if it's your >> turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines that converge >> so things can get confusing. I know the obvious thing would be to ask the >> people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar >> settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? >> Thank you, >> Sarah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Nov 30 15:10:28 2008 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 07:10:28 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups Message-ID: <20081130150738.WADK3195.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I would go up to someone and ask where the line ends then join and you put your cane on the person (before y''s) heel lightly, so you'll know when to go move. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:29:52 -0500 >Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups >Hi All, >I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we hadn't >yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know if it's your >turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines that converge >so things can get confusing. I know the obvious thing would be to ask the >people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar >settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? >Thank you, >Sarah >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From kconstan at student.umass.edu Sun Nov 30 16:43:34 2008 From: kconstan at student.umass.edu (Kristina Constant) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:43:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introduction References: <8045A9FB20B545F6B835D23BD4337C0A@consumer281f9d> Message-ID: <0CE613169A16408AB88A0055CED83925@user0b70da9c0d> Hi Maria, The springfield chapter of the nfb of mass is having a meeting wednesday the third at seven to nine at 910 liberty st springfield ma. You would be welcome if you could come. Kristina Constant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Kristic" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introduction > Hi Chris, > > It's Maria, from the Blind Students on Facebook group. I'm also from New > York, and am completing my third semester at Western New England College > in > Springfield, MA--Computer Science major and Math minor. ^_^ I'm doing a > few > gen. ed. requirements myself this semester, but I'll be taking mostly > classes required for my major in the spring, so I'm really happy about > that. > Totally blind as well; WNEC's about 2 and a half hours from my house, and > its location is decent in terms of public transportation, unlike the area > where I live in upstate New York which has close to no public > transportation > available, so I can relate to your situation. Glad you're finding the list > helpful, and good luck with your studies and decision about your > major/career path. > > Cheers, > Maria > Skype: MariaKristic > AIM: MCKristic > Email/MSN: maria6289 at earthlink.net > Google Talk: Maria.Kristic at gmail.com > Yahoo Messenger: mariakristic at yahoo.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Christopher Kchao > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] introduction > > Hi all, > I figured I'd finally do the formal thing and introduce myself for the > sake > of most of you who probably don't know me. I'm completing my third > semester > at Hunter College of the City University of New York. Presently, I'm in > the > process of taking care of the rather extensive liberal arts requirements > of > my education while exploring different career options. I have a great deal > of interest in working in a technical field; there's just something > extremely appealing about being on the cutting edge. In addition, I'm also > continuing to toy with the idea of going to law school to become an > attorney. > As far as vision is concerned, I am totally blind from birth. Location was > a > rather large determining factor when deciding on my school of choice. > Staying at home with my parents would be too easy. Staying in suburban New > York at the mercy of anyone with functioning eyes and a car would be too > inconvenient. As a result of this decision, I am proud to say that I > consider myself to be moderately independent and have lived away from home > for a little bit over a year. I do however plan to attend one of the NFB > training centers in the near future. At the very least, doing so will aid > in > reinforcing the skills I currently have and boosting my confidence. I feel > that independence is an absolutely vital skill and definitely aids in > increasing marketability in the workforce. > This mailing list, and the "blind students on facebook" group is the > extent > of my involvement in the organized blind movement, if I may give it such a > designation. I hope to change that in the near future. Only recently have > I > started to see the value of networking with other blind individuals, > especially when faced with challenges that would seem otherwise > unconventional to my sighted peers. This list definitely has a lot to > offer > in terms of being an outlet in which people can share ideas, though > networking on a local level would be ideal. > Anyways, this is starting to sound like bits and pieces of a poorly > written > college essay, so I think I'll stop. :-) > Just from being a nearly silent member on the list, I've already learned a > lot in the past few months. Keep it coming. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kconstan%40student.umass.edu > From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 17:03:58 2008 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:03:58 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0811300201jc6cd170vfc19873bbbaa108b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0811300201jc6cd170vfc19873bbbaa108b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: When you find the end of the ine, use your cane in a pencil grip and gently touch the person't feet in front of you once in a while. That way you will know when the line moves. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups I listen closely and figre out where the line ends and so forth. Beth On 11/30/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Hi All, > I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we > hadn't yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know > if it's your turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several > lines that converge so things can get confusing. I know the obvious > thing would be to ask the people near you, but I find I get shy and > tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? > Thank you, > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 30 22:27:07 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:27:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math In-Reply-To: <0414CDCDC52845878BCB339C23D20475@maria> References: <608796063.18585651227913769317.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> <0414CDCDC52845878BCB339C23D20475@maria> Message-ID: There's also an amazing program called Nemetex that can translate Nemeth code into text. It might be saving my life right now. I'm a math major, and so it will be my lifeline for years to come. It only costs $99.99, which is pretty affordable especially in the world of adaptive technology. It also comes with a 30-day free trial. Check It out at http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm#Sample_Output HTH, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maria Kristic Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:53 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math Is Applied Finite Math the same thing as Applied Discrete Math? I believe so, but just wanted to make absolutely sure. If so, you really shouldn't need any special software to show your work independently, IMHO, if this is what you're asking--just represent what you're doing in a textual notation when you type it out on your PC/notetaker, and hand in the electronic file/print it. For instance, use a caret (^) to indicate a superscript, an underscore (_) to indicate a subscript, and put whatever's superscripted or subscripted in braces ({}) to avoid ambiguity. Use parentheses to denote the numerators and denominators of fractions (for instance, (3)/(4) for three-fourths). Use symbols like "sqrt" for square root. Use the words for the Greek letters (i.e., pi, sigma, capitalize the P and S to indicate capitalized letters). Use braces ({}) to indicate sets, and words like "union", "intersection", etc. for set operations; you can also use the regular + (plus), - (minus), * (multiplication), / (divides), <, >, and = found on the keyboard, and combine them to form, for instance, >= or /= (meaning "not equal to". When constructing truth tables, use the vertical bar symbol (|) to separate columns, make sure they're aligned by using your screen reader's cursor position command, and literally use a carriage return to separate lines (i.e., hit ENTER to separate lines). Literally use words like "and", "or", "for all", and "there exists" in place of the graphical symbols for those logical operators, and for others where you can easily create the symbol from the keyboard, do so--for instance, ~ for "not", <--> (a double-pointing arrow) for the biconditional (i.e., "if and only if" or "iff"), etc. You can verbally describe logical circuit diagrams (for instance, "Two inputs, p and q, go in to an and gate. This output is the input for a not gate. The output of this not gate, combined with a third input line r, are both inputs to an or gate. The output is s."), and your prof can verbally describe them to you in a similar manner. Construct output tables for circuits in a similar manner to the method described for truth tables. Graphs can be described verbally (i.e., "Vertices v1, v2, v3, v4. Edge E1 connects V1 and V2, edge E2 is a curved edge which connects V1 and V3, edge E3 is a loop edge at V3."--actually, if you're discussing walkways, you might want to be a bit more descriptive about the layout of the vertices, or your prof might want to be when describing them to you, such as saying, for instance, "Vertices v1, v2, v3, and v4 are in a horizontal row from left to right." Or "There are three columns. The leftmost column contains V2, the middle one contains V1 and V3 from top to bottom, and the rightmost column contains V4." Or "There are two vertices. V1 is on the left, and v2 is on the right." Or "The vertices V1, V2, V3, and V4 are arranged clockwise roughly around the corners of a diamond shape.", and when describing the walkways, just list out the vertices and edges, separated by commas, in the order that they're involved; graphs can be alternately represented as matrices--if your book doesn't cover the alternate representation, and you wish to use it instead, you can ask the prof, and I'm sure that he/she would be cool with your using it--and to construct the matrix, use similar conventions to what was described for truth tables. For trees, describe them in a similar manner to that given for graphs, and just describe the layout of what is branching and where (i.e., "Vertex V1 is at the top. V1 branches to V3 to the left, to V2 straight down, and to V4 to the right. V4 branches up and to the right to V5. V3 branches down and to the left to V6. V2 branches up and to the left to V7."). That's all I can think of off the top of my head; I'm taking Discrete, not Applied Discrete, so I'm not sure whether I've broadly covered all the bases for your class, but hopefully I have, or I've hopefully at least gotten you in the right direction. I know that probably not a lot of the above makes sense at the moment, but it will as you go through the class. I also emphasized graphs and trees a lot because they're the most visual part of the class. If you're in a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) major, you might want to look in to learning LaTeX--I use it quite a lot, and I drew some of my above symbolic suggestions from LaTeX conventions. Let me know if you have any questions/if something doesn't make sense. Like I said, hope this helps, and this is just my $0.02, so if you want to, you can also post to Blindmath as Arielle suggested, and you might get some other suggestions (I'm on that list, and they're a helpful bunch). Good luck, and I hope that you enjoy the class! Regards, Maria Skype: MariaKristic AIM: MCKristic Email/MSN: maria6289 at earthlink.net Google Talk: Maria.Kristic at gmail.com Yahoo Messenger: mariakristic at yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of golfereric at verizon.net Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:09 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Applied Finite Math Hi Everybody For the spring semester I will be taking Applied Finite Math. I was wondering if anybody knew of any computer programs that could assist me with this class? Any and all suggestions are welcome Thanks, Eric Gaudes _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 30 22:32:43 2008 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:32:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0811300201jc6cd170vfc19873bbbaa108b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you guys for all your suggestions. I'll be trying them all out tonight. Smile. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:04 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups When you find the end of the ine, use your cane in a pencil grip and gently touch the person't feet in front of you once in a while. That way you will know when the line moves. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups I listen closely and figre out where the line ends and so forth. Beth On 11/30/08, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > Hi All, > I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we > hadn't yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know > if it's your turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several > lines that converge so things can get confusing. I know the obvious > thing would be to ask the people near you, but I find I get shy and > tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts? > Thank you, > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 30 23:24:53 2008 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:24:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sarah, I feel the same way in an unfamiliararea. How do you know who to ask if you don't know any one in your cafeteria? I guess you have to ask and that will get over the shyness. I think other blind people feel the same way. A person who could see would feel the same way. I don't think it is just blind people that it is hard to ask some one for directions or any questions in an unfamiliar area. It is not so hard if some one comes up to me and starts talking to me. Asking some one else who I don't know is not as easy. Albert > From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:29:52 -0500> Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups> > Hi All,> I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect we hadn't> yet discussed. How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know if it's your> turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines that converge> so things can get confusing. I know the obvious thing would be to ask the> people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm in unfamiliar> settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well. Any other thoughts?> Thank you,> Sarah> > > _______________________________________________> nabs-l mailing list> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008