[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Mon Nov 3 13:56:44 UTC 2008

I was in the same boat, Beth.  I totally understand what you 
mean.  I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school.  
She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me 
or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them 
instead.  There were very few times when she would invite to go 
places with her other friends.  I guess she didn't accept the 
blindness.

Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

>I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with 
friends
>is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the 
friends in
>the first place.  I had practically no friends in high school 
that I
>could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa 
marching
>band and chorus.  That was it.
>Beth

>On 11/3/08, T.  Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,

>> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough.  What is 
needed along
>> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us 
aside and
>> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..."  Honest, 
non-judgmental feedback
>> is necessary for improvement.  If you know what you just did and 
what cue
>> you just missed, you can adapt.  If you don't, you can't.

>> Joseph

>> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman 
wrote:
>>>Hi all,

>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for 
high
>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact 
sheet is
>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on 
the
>>>situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as 
there is
>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way 
to
>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one 
setting
>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.  
Really what
>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations 
and
>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in 
those
>>>situations.

>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply 
knowing
>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In 
order
>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also 
be
>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who  
picks
>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know 
that
>>>it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told 
it's
>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish 
him for
>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in 
the
>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble 
for
>>>picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to 
not
>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's 
doing
>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch 
inside
>>>his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some 
behaviors
>>>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can 
become so
>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to 
stop
>>>they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example 
of a
>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are 
motivated
>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating 
it.
>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from 
conversations
>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop 
and
>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about 
the
>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but 
there
>>>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't 
care,
>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize 
their
>>>time so they're not late, etc.

>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve 
their
>>>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate 
(knowledge),
>>>but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated 
than
>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because 
they've
>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see 
other
>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the 
emphasis
>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different 
social
>>>situations and building connections with others—rather than just
>>>telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for 
good
>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around 
to
>>>observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through 
experience that
>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others 
makes
>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.

>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?

>>>Arielle

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oseph%40gmail.com

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