[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Tue Nov 4 00:43:29 UTC 2008

I pretty much always use my cell to get the time now cause it's one of those 
cells from Verizon that is accessible using voice commands.  (Not one where 
you have to buy any expensive software for the blind!)

Serena

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette

> As a matter of etiquette, I refuse to wear the cheap talking watches that 
> are so common.  They're loud and obnoxious in any but the most noisy 
> environments and are totally unsuited to the average workplace.  Invest in 
> a good Braille watch, if you want to fit in with professional circles. 
> Failing that, a note taker or similar device can be used together.
>
> I use my watch for approximation of the time (which is what you usually 
> want anyway), and check my cell phone if I need anything more accurate. 
> My watch is analog, intended for sighties, and quite high contrast with no 
> numbers or markings on the face of any kind.  A good Braille watch will 
> serve a person just as well.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 01:57:00AM -0500, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
>>I also notice people checking talking watches at inappropriate times, or
>>having their rooster alarms go off at inappropriate times. Or some people
>>talking over others. Obviously sighted people can do this too, but I think 
>>I
>>notice it more in the blind because I critique them more.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>Behalf
>>Of Robert Spangler
>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:04 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>
>>This weekend at the NFB of Ohio convention, I observed a few things that 
>>totally irritated me.  While the original poster did state that both 
>>sighted and blind people who are sheltered exhibit these types of 
>>inappropriate social behavior, I believe that it is noticeable more among 
>>blind people because many of them are sheltered when being raised. People 
>>feel sorry for them and don't explain to them what is socially acceptable 
>>and what isn't.  They are not expected to be responsible for their 
>>etiquette in public because  people don't expect that they will work with 
>>their sighted and non-handicapped counterparts in society. It's sad but 
>>unfortunately true.
>>
>>I don't want to give any specific examples but people answering their 
>>phones during meetings when there is a speaker in the front of the room 
>>and talking while someone else is speaking are just a couple of the 
>>inappropriate behaviors that I notice when attending meetings with a blind 
>>majority.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Robby
>>Hope Paulos wrote:
>>> Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this to be a 
>>> wonderful post.  I just wanted to add an experience of my own and of 
>>> others with whom I work.  When I was very young, I had several 
>>> "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair, and I would poke 
>>> my eye.  My parents would not allow me to do this.  When I got older, my 
>>> grandmother was talking about how much I'd matured.  She said she was so 
>>> proud that I didn't exhibit those blindisms.  I asked my mother why she 
>>> insisted that I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially 
>>> inappropriate.  There are times, especially being totally blind, when 
>>> people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they don't even 
>>> know this fact.  My mother said that she knew that I couldn't see the 
>>> people around me and the fact they were not rocking or poking  their 
>>> eyes.  She needed to put a stop to these behaviors.  She wanted me to 
>>> not be laughed at and to be socially  appropriate.  Arielle, I'm not 
>>> sure if this was what you were talking about, but I figured I'd add it 
>>> in.  It is in no way my intention to offend people.  If I have i 
>>> apologize.      When I worked at Perkins, I worked with people that 
>>> would make certain sounds or flap their hands.  These students ranged in 
>>> age from 9 to 14.  It was extremely difficult to extinguish these 
>>> behaviors at those  ages.  The students  progressed when it came time 
>>> for me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have 
>>> been extinguished fully.
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>> I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
>>> high
>>>> school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>> beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
>>> sheet is
>>>> that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
>>> the
>>>> situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
>>> there is
>>>> more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
>>> to
>>>> be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
>>> setting
>>>> may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
>>> Really what
>>>> I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
>>> and
>>>> "blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
>>> those
>>>> situations.
>>>
>>>> I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>> sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>> intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>> behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
>>> knowing
>>>> what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
>>> order
>>>> to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
>>> be
>>>> motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>> behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
>>> picks
>>>> his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
>>> that
>>>> it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
>>> it's
>>>> inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>> doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
>>> him for
>>>> doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
>>> the
>>>> situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
>>> for
>>>> picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
>>> not
>>>> pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
>>> doing
>>>> it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
>>> inside
>>>> his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>> etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>> self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
>>> behaviors
>>>> commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
>>> become so
>>>> habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
>>> stop
>>>> they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
>>> of a
>>>> behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>> unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
>>> motivated
>>>> to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
>>> it.
>>>> (Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
>>> conversations
>>>> with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
>>> and
>>>> still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>> different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
>>> the
>>>> negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
>>> there
>>>> are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
>>> care,
>>>> or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
>>> their
>>>> time so they're not late, etc.
>>>
>>>> That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
>>> their
>>>> social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
>>> (knowledge),
>>>> but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
>>> than
>>>> sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
>>> they've
>>>> been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
>>> other
>>>> people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
>>> emphasis
>>>> should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>> conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
>>> social
>>>> situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>>>> telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
>>> good
>>>> behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>> eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
>>> to
>>>> observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
>>> experience that
>>>> following social norms and initiating connections with others
>>> makes
>>>> them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>>>
>>>> So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>
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>>>
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