[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Fri Nov 7 14:11:48 UTC 2008

It's meant for all visually impaired people.  But the article was
written for parents, but it serves its purpose.
Beth

On 11/7/08, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
> I know what you mean. It can be a bit traumatic at times, but honestly it
> can only benefit you. 100%.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Franandah Damstra
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:15 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>
> Man, my parents were SO strict on table maners it was crazy. I'm
> constantly being yelled at for very small things. It is almost like
> sometimes it is overboard. lol I know it is for the best, but
> sometimes it can get very anoying.
>
> On 11/6/08, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Read "Please Pass the Manners" By Barbara Pierce.  That's perfect as
>> far as table manners.  It shows us how parents can teach their
>> children table manners from day one.  I know it's from a parents'
>> magazine, but it's an excellent article.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>> something else to think about is table manners - a technique which is
>>> extremely lacking for many blind people. They should be enforced/taught
>>> from
>>> day one. I was just out for dinner tonight and thought of it, and wonder
>>> if
>>> anyone else has any thoughts.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Dezman Jackson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:07 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>
>>> I've been able to get new batteries put into my braille watch at
> Wal-Mart.
>>>
>>> Dezman
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's funny.  I was in band for four years or more of my life.  I am
>>>> a big fan of Braille watches, but you won't be able to get Wal-mart to
>>>> fix the things because the stores don't want something that isn't
>>>> theirs.  But it fits right in and it isn't loud and obnoxious like
>>>> Joseph said.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> On 11/3/08, Yolanda Garcia <yvgarcia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hope,
>>>>> Loved the suggestion that you referenced here. I've worked as a summer
>>>>> counselor in our NFB training centers for 5 years and this was a
>>>>> technique
>>>>> that we often utilized when we noticed that a child was displaying an
>>>>> unacceptable social behavior. We tried to make sure that the word
> wasn't
>>>>> too
>>>>> obscure as to draw attention to the strangeness of it's relation to the
>>>>> context but something that was distinct in a more covert manner. This
>>>>> technique is also good with sighted children when you are trying to
>>>>> extinguish an unacceptable behavior instead of harping on the phrase or
>>>>> word
>>>>> "No" and "Stop That".
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>> Yolanda
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:51 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, the person helping and the person exhibiting blindisms can have
> a
>>>>>> code between them (that is not known to the public) and when the
> person
>>>>>> exhibits those behaviors the person can say the "Code word." This is
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> the nfb centers do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope and Beignet
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:25:31 -0500
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That would be the same as picking one's nose or biting one's
>>>>>> nails.  I
>>>>>>>admit I rocked my head like Stevie Wonder does sometimes or did.
>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>knows when I saw him last!  Anyway, to answer Sarah's question, a
>>>>>>>gentle but discrete and firm "This kind of thing i.e.  pking of
>>>>>> eyes,
>>>>>>>moving head, rocking is not appropriate in public" is fine with
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>Beth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 11/2/08, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Many of us have or had them because they are forms of self
>>>>>>>> stimulation ...  self soothing.  They feel good so we do them
>>>>>>>> naturally.  We do them when we are anxious, bored and the like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 04:25 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>This is such a great topic.  I admit that I had blindisms and
>>>>>> still struggle
>>>>>>>>>to extinguish them totally.  I have eye-poking issues and rock
>>>>>> occasionally.
>>>>>>>>>What's interesting is that these seem to be common for all blind
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>>>is it that we all seem to have these blindisms from the start and
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>extinguish them as we grow?
>>>>>>>>>I worked at a camp for the blind in the summer and I noticed a
>>>>>> bunch of
>>>>>>>>>these blindisms but I found it hard to point them out to campers
>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>shyness and because they were in the company of their parents, my
>>>>>> age, or
>>>>>>>>>much older.  It was weird.  If I work there again though I think
>>>>>> much of my
>>>>>>>>>shyness will be gone though.  But how do you tell people their
>>>>>> behavior is
>>>>>>>>>inappropriate without embarrassing them? Any thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>Of Hope Paulos
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:27 PM
>>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Arielle points out several good examples here and I believe this
>>>>>>>>>to be a wonderful post.  I just wanted to add an experience of my
>>>>>>>>>own and of others with whom I work.  When I was very young, I had
>>>>>>>>>several "Blindisms"- I would rock when not in a rocking chair,
>>>>>>>>>and I would poke my eye.  My parents would not allow me to do
>>>>>>>>>this.  When I got older, my grandmother was talking about how
>>>>>>>>>much I'd matured.  She said she was so proud that I didn't
>>>>>>>>>exhibit those blindisms.  I asked my mother why she insisted that
>>>>>>>>>I stop rocking and she explained that it was socially
>>>>>>>>>inappropriate.  There are times, especially being totally blind,
>>>>>>>>>when  people do things that are socially inappropriate, but they
>>>>>>>>>don't even know this fact.  My mother said that she knew that I
>>>>>>>>>couldn't see the people around me and the fact they were not
>>>>>>>>>rocking or poking  their eyes.  She needed to put a stop to these
>>>>>>>>>behaviors.  She wanted me to not be laughed at and to be socially
>>>>>>>>>appropriate.  Arielle, I'm not sure if this was what you were
>>>>>>>>>talking about, but I figured I'd add it in.  It is in no way my
>>>>>>>>>intention to offend people.  If I have i apologize.     When I
>>>>>>>>>worked at Perkins, I worked with people that would make certain
>>>>>>>>>sounds or flap their hands.  These students ranged in age from 9
>>>>>>>>>to 14.  It was extremely difficult to extinguish these behaviors
>>>>>>>>>at those  ages.  The students  progressed when it came time for
>>>>>>>>>me to leave, but I am uncertain as to whether the behaviors have
>>>>>>>>>been extinguished fully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:43:21 +1100
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
>>>>>>>>>high
>>>>>>>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>>>>>>>>beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
>>>>>>>>>sheet is
>>>>>>>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
>>>>>>>>>there is
>>>>>>>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
>>>>>>>>>setting
>>>>>>>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
>>>>>>>>>Really what
>>>>>>>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
>>>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>>>>situations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>>>>>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>>>>>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>>>>>>>>behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
>>>>>>>>>knowing
>>>>>>>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
>>>>>>>>>order
>>>>>>>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
>>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>>>>>>>>behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
>>>>>>>>>picks
>>>>>>>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>>it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
>>>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>>>>>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
>>>>>>>>>him for
>>>>>>>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
>>>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
>>>>>>>>>doing
>>>>>>>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
>>>>>>>>>inside
>>>>>>>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>>>>>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
>>>>>>>>>behaviors
>>>>>>>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
>>>>>>>>>become so
>>>>>>>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
>>>>>>>>>stop
>>>>>>>>>>they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
>>>>>>>>>of a
>>>>>>>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>>>>>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
>>>>>>>>>motivated
>>>>>>>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
>>>>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>>>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
>>>>>>>>>conversations
>>>>>>>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>>>>>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
>>>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
>>>>>>>>>care,
>>>>>>>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
>>>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>>>>time so they're not late, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
>>>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
>>>>>>>>>(knowledge),
>>>>>>>>>>but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
>>>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
>>>>>>>>>they've
>>>>>>>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
>>>>>>>>>other
>>>>>>>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
>>>>>>>>>emphasis
>>>>>>>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>>>>>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
>>>>>>>>>social
>>>>>>>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>>>>>>>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
>>>>>>>>>good
>>>>>>>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>>>>>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
>>>>>>>>>experience that
>>>>>>>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others
>>>>>>>>>makes
>>>>>>>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>os%40maine..edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nikar%40uto
>>>>>>>>>ronto.ca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>>>>>>>>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>>11/2/2008 9:51 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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